Don't expect much of a reaction from the left. After all, we've been told thousands of times that Bush lied, there are no WMDs. It's been said so many times, it's now true, right?

A few hundred shells != a WMD program that was ongoing and being re-constituted. I am by no means a member of Team Lefty, but you can't point to a few hundred shells as a proper justification for making the WMD claim.

Are they Chemical weapons, yes, but this is not the level of WMD we were told about. You need to be honest with yourselves and say does this rise to the level of WMD acceptable to go to war for (yes I know WMD wasn't the only reason we went to Iraq, but its the Administrations fault for making it appear to be the primary one) and because of that, when stockpiles are not found, when operational centrifuges, mobile weapons labs, and drones equiped to delver airial agents are still not discovered, it doesn't bolster your position to play the WMD card.

This focus on WMDs is continuing to confound me. The war is right whether or not we were lied to, whether or not some facts were wrong, and whether or not it is more difficult than some expected.

The war is right because a dictator who is responsible for so much carnage in the world (some 2,000,000 dead) was removed from power. And as a correlary benefit, we have a historic opportunity to spread freedom and democracy in the world. The spread of democracy will eventually mean the end of war, since democracies never war against each other.

The suffering inflicted by Saddam Hussein on mankind were almost entirely from bullets of mass destruction. So some Senator grasping for attention announces that old WMDs were found? Okay duh, but it does not matter in the final analysis, and I thought we already knew it. Focus on this issue entirely misses the morality of our historic effort.

Gabriel,

Move the goal posts any way you want. The "Saddam had no WMD" meme is officially dead.

Pre-1991 remnants = WMDs?

Nope.

You guys are getting desperate. What a pleasure to watch the conservative movement self-destruct hip-deep in your own spew of mis-informationl.

Huzzah! and good riddance.

"Okay duh, but it does not matter in the final analysis, and I thought we already knew it. Focus on this issue entirely misses the morality of our historic effort."

Huh? The only ones who miss "the morality" of this effort are the same crowd who think BushLied (tm).

Downplaying this plays right into their hands.

Quashing their potential "BushLied about Iraq, how can we trust him on Iran?" meme is priority A-1 at the moment.

Ah, yes. One half of the liberal template is that Bush is incredibly dumb and incompetant, yet he can steal two elections and con the entie world into believing that Saddam had WMD, thus leading the USA into a war for oil and Hailburton.

The other half is sticking their fingers in their ears and shouting "lalalalala I can't hear you because you're stupid and I don't want to even consider a damn word you say lalalalala!"

Makes perfect sense to a dunderheaded Kossite.

Lee, your schtick is so 2004. You need new material, dude.

Gabriel Chapman at June 22, 2006 12:56 AM

A few hundred shells != a WMD program that was ongoing and being re-constituted. I am by no means a member of Team Lefty, but you can't point to a few hundred shells as a proper justification for making the WMD claim.

Ok, pulled from the above mentioned FloppingAces post:

Let's see...assuming each projectile is equivalent to a 155-mm GB (Sarin) round uploaded with 6.5 pounds of GB, that would be approximately 1477 kg (1.6 tons) of GB Agent. The LD50 for Sarin is about 100 mg percutaneous per 70 kg man, for a total of 14,770,000 lethal doses to the skin, at 50% fatality. That's more than enough Sarin to kill 7,385,000 people, or the population of Los Angeles, Chicago AND Houston.

How much WMD constitutes WMDs to you people? I suspect your answer would come out like Dr. Evil looking over his shoulder at Number Two... One [pause] Hundred [pause] Bill-ion [pause] Tons! as Number Two nods his approval.

The. left. lied. By their own standard.

HAHAHAHAHA! So true Big Mo! It seems more like the left is drowning in its own stupidity and are already on high alert to cover it up! I have checked all major online papers, NYTimes, LA Times, ect. NOTHING ON THE WMD'S. If its not that significant, they would be all over themselves to say so. Their silence is our pleasure. However I see plenty in the blogs and on Fox News. Hee Hee. Can't wait to see what the idiot John Kerry says! oh wait I already know! "I belived Saddam had WMD's before I didn't believe it". HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Ask the Kurds what they think of the argument that these shells aren't dangerous.

Sorry JB, what Santorum announced isn't that exciting. They are some old weapons lying around. We've seen reports about them already, a shell here, a stash there. Fine, okay, be happy I guess, but they matter not to righteousness of our heroic effort.

I really don't give a rats ass about quashing anyone's partisan political points. I'll leave that pointless activity to the knee-jerk party people. Liberalism is a mental disorder, so I'm not sure that refuting their foolishness is a reasonable use of time.

If this were news, by the way, it wouldn't be Rick Santorum announcing it.

Umm, it wasn't just him. It broke on the Sean Hannity radio show.

What's news is that it looks like Santorum and... what's his name -- themselves don't believe what they were saying -- that they know it's a lie. You could hear their lips smacking from their nervousness.

I wonder if George will give them a cookie for their performance.

Oh -- Sean Hannity's radio show? That makes it legitimate?

Man, are you guys well trained....

It seems more like the left is drowning in its own stupidity and are already on high alert to cover it up! I have checked all major online papers, NYTimes, LA Times, ect. NOTHING ON THE WMD'S.

Well, you missed the Washington Post:

Rep. Peter Hoekstra (R-Mich.), chairman of the House intelligence committee, and Sen. Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) told reporters yesterday that weapons of mass destruction had in fact been found in Iraq, despite acknowledgments by the White House and the insistence of the intelligence community that no such weapons had been discovered.

...

Last night, intelligence officials reaffirmed that the shells were old and were not the suspected weapons of mass destruction sought in Iraq after the 2003 invasion.

You remember the Deulfer Report, right?

While a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions have been discovered, ISG judges that Iraq unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991. There are no credible indications that Baghdad resumed production of chemical munitions thereafter, a policy ISG attributes to Baghdad's desire to see sanctions lifted, or rendered ineffectual, or its fear of force against it should WMD be discovered.

Lol, some guy didn't just come on his show you moron. It was news. Breaking news.

McCain, above, states: This focus on WMDs is continuing to confound me. The war is right whether or not we were lied to, whether or not some facts were wrong, and whether or not it is more difficult than some expected.

McCain, you are correct that the war is right either way. However, the focus on the WMDs IS part of the War Against the Dems (and the MSM), which IS a crucial part of the Global War On Terrorism!

Yes Mantis, The Washington Post does have it, I stand corrected. HOWEVER, you have to SEARCH for the damn article. It is by no means a top story in their piece of trash paper.

Lorie B, I reread your "just for the record", above, from polipundit, and I never doubted your keen observation, then and now! You are always right on!

You DON'T need TO search, it's on the front PAGE.

Hey, randomly typing words wasn't as fun as it looked. Guess you have to be crazy.

Mantis, most of these weapons were discovered after the Deufler report was issued. The declassified report Santorum was talking about were about weapons discovered after May 2004 thru now. The Deufler report was issued in September 2004 so it is mostly irrelevant. These weapons still aren't very important, but at least come to the table with facts rather than your cute liberal disinformation.

Here is the Santorum doc:
http://www.nationalreview.com/pdf/NEGRPONTELETTER.pdf

Remember the SIX MONTHS it took for the U.S. to get a UN go-ahead for Gulf War Part II? Do you really think Saddam didn't use them to hide WMD's? Wanna buy a bridge?

"The burden of proof was on Saddam, not the United States. George Bush did not have the burden of proving that Saddam [still] had WMDs. Saddam Hussein had the burden of proving he didn't have them [any more]. Saddam failed to meet the burden of proof ... and paid the price." -- Neal Boortz

It doesn't matter when the WMD was made. It was there and the U.N. and it's million dollar inspectors didn't find it. What else didn't they find? I'll bet they found lots and lots of money when the left. Someone probably stuffed it in their luggage while they were out and they didn't see it.. Every day the U.N proves to be more and more of a joke.

I expect the airways to be fully of apologies tomorrow. Several hundred democrats should sit down for a full serving of crow, and then go jump off the tallest building in D.C. They are a sham and a disgrace to the country.

Now everyone should demand the release of everything the CIA is hiding to protect the U.N., (our enemies) Germany, France, Russia, China and evidently the hapless CIA themselves. Time to level with the American people, or was this supposed to be an october surpri'z'e?

Just noticed this hilarious site because of a search on the Santorum "news".
You have GOT to be kidding. If you're going to tout 15 year old degraded sarin shells as the reason to spend 2500 lives....20,000 limbs and assorted body parts...tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis...and likely a trillion dollars...you will be known forever as the most desperate partisans in history.
Never mind...you've got that designation sewn up.

Wow. You people are genuinely insane.

On the one hand it's terrifying, but on the other, I assume part of America has always been this nuts, and the internet has just made you more visible.

AJR, again, the WMD issue is NOT for the importance of the War in Iraq or Global War on Terrorism (which would have been correct either way for other reasons), but the WMD issue IS imporant in the War Againts the Dems (and the MSM) since the Dems and the MSM are allies and supporters of the enemies of the USA in the GWOT!

Mantis, most of these weapons were discovered after the Deufler report was issued.

How do you know that?

The declassified report Santorum was talking about were about weapons discovered after May 2004 thru now. The Deufler report was issued in September 2004 so it is mostly irrelevant.

Ah, I see. You know they didn't find these weapons before September 2004. How, exactly?

These weapons still aren't very important, but at least come to the table with facts rather than your cute liberal disinformation.

Which part was disinformation? The ISG acknowledged finding some abandoned, pre-1991 chemical munitions. They also note that they didn't look at everything and that more would probably be found. So maybe these were already seen by the ISG, maybe they were found afterwards. Either way...oh I'll just let Fox News tell it:

"This does not reflect a capacity that was built up after 1991," the official said, adding the munitions "are not the WMDs this country and the rest of the world believed Iraq had, and not the WMDs for which this country went to war."

Well Mantis just how many sarin-filled artillery shell does it take to count as a WMD? 501? 1000? Or a million? And if Saddam unilaterally destroyed his stockpiles why did they find FIVE HUNDRED ROUNDS of this stuff?

What is this Mantis? The ISG acknowledged finding pre-gulf war chemical munitions? I thought there were no WMD,NONE AT ALL! BUSH LIED US INTO WAR!!! Now you tell me there were WMD after all,and everybody already knew it because of the Duelfer report? So I guess that makes it old news right-move along, nothing to see here... Well no actually this torpedoes the entire Democratic case against the war...Sorry!

Xennady, you're an idiot. Everyone knew Saddam had chemical weapons in the 1980s and that he used them on the Kurds and Iranians. That some of them were not destroyed and were forgotten about was predicted and small amounts were found here and there, according to the Duelfer report. So what? They're not worth anything militarily. This is old news being pulled out by a desperate politician who's getting killed in the polls.

If we had found weapons that were actually useful and you know, supported the case for war, don't you think the White House might announce it?

Oh I'm an idiot am I? Well, Mantis, allow me to retort.The line from the left for the last THREE YEARS has been that there were NO WMD in Iraq and thus Bush lied us into war.This discovery disproves that forever and all time.Now you claim that several thousand pounds of Sarin is useless militarily.To whom? Terrorists? Are you really saying that all this Sarin-which if you are correct-is useless as an artillery shell would be useless to Al-Queada? No-this is EXACTLY the reason why we SHOULD have invaded Iraq.Sorry,but I don't think I'm the idiot here.And maybe George Bush has more important things to worry about than convincing every last opponent that the war was justified after it is already being fought.For example,collecting loose Sarin-filled artillery rounds before terrorists get them?

If there was usable sarin and mustard gas shells, don't you think the insurgents would've used them against our troops by now? The Baahists had 3 years, plus the tech and know-how to use them, so why haven't they?

Apparantly they have not. That's the bottom line, isn't it?

Did anyone here bother to read the actual fax released by Negroponte? Judging by the comments here, it sure don't look it. But hey, that's righties for ya; complex info analysis is beyond their skill. They should stick to watching men in in underwear grope each other in front of the TV and leave the proper discussion to those who can think and read.

Now you claim that several thousand pounds of Sarin is useless militarily.

Yes.

To whom? Terrorists? Are you really saying that all this Sarin-which if you are correct-is useless as an artillery shell would be useless to Al-Queada?

Yes.

Dear god America has a lot of stupid people. It's enough to make you despair for the concept of democracy.

mantis, I think you're the most relatively sane leftist here, so I'm going to address you -- the others are beyond reason and, possibly, beyond hope.

1) Yes, the weapons appear to predate the first Gulf War. That puts them in the category of ones Saddam was supposed to have reported and destroyed under international supervision, by the terms of his surrender. He did not do so, therefore the agreement that ended that war is null and void. Renewal of hositilities may commence.

2) The most likely explanation for why the terrorists haven't used these weapons is that they didn't know where they were. Saddam hid them quite well.

3) This single announced discovery amounts to over a ton and a half of poison gas. That's the weight of a small-to-medium car, in gas form. And 500 shells -- imagine 500 bullets. Now blow those bullets up until they're 6" in diameter -- that's a 155mm artillery shell, roughly.

4) WMDs are clearly defined as NBCs: Nuclear, Biological, Chemical. Poison gas is defined as a chemical weapon, and therefore a WMD. 500 artillery shells containing 1.6 TONS of poison gas is a lot of WMD.

J.