John Wayne Gacy dressed up as a clown and performed at children's hospital wards. That didn't make him any less of a perverted, murdering SOB.

Kingston's question is one that is being asked a lot these days. When governments acts like terrorists, the line gets blurred.

Terrorists attack citizens instead of soldiers.

This is the reason the question is relevant today, as some feel Israel is targeting citizens.

It's an interesting enough question, if presented poorly. The question is not whether Hezbollah is a terrorist group; it clearly is. The question is whether those who work for Hezbollah in other capacities are terrorists. Are the nurses at the Hezbollah-run hospitals terrorists? Are the teachers at Hezbollah-run schools terrorists? Are they legitimate targets?

This is the reason the question is relevant today, as some feel Israel is targeting citizens.

Not really targeting civilians Lee, but you wouldn't understand. They are targeting military assets of Hezabollah and the Hez is just such wonderful, peace-loving people, they place the military assets in the midst of civilians.

I would suggest any civilian observing a rocket launcher, radar site, or armed guys with guns in their midst to leave the area post-haste.

Make sense or are you going to regurgitate the talking point of "they are not allowed to leave"? Jeez.

... and if they're not being allowed to leave by Hezbullah, how does that make Israel at fault?

What is a terrorist organization?

A group that kidnaps civilians and takes them to foreign countries for questioning and torture, without the benefit of any due process or trial.

A group that indicriminately uses weapons of war on civilians.

A group that demonizes a race or religion in order minimize their crimes aginst them.

Well, Hizballah definitely meets this definition but so does the CIA and the Israeli Mossad. So, are the US and Israeli governments terrorists too?

One should be careful before "throwing stones".

I remember how shocked I was when my grandfather told me stories about his childhood in Chicago during the Jazz Age.

Al Capone was a hero to the local neighborhoods. He bought shoes for the kids and provided other kinds of help.

It doesn't change the fact that he was a vicious gangster though, does it?

Firing missiles at clearly marked ambulances and hospitals is "targeting" civilians. They can't leave because there is no gas for what few cars are left. Due to the fact that Israel blew up all the gas stations. Further, the Israeli's have ordered people out of towns and then attacked their cars as they were leaving on the only road intact.

Peole have their heads in the sand if they believe Israel is not targeting civilians.

A terrorist uses terror for political gains. Their actions seldom have military or strategic relevance and often target local populace. An Israeli action definitely has military and strategic goals. Taking a piece of land has a strategic goal. Terrorist often will kill for no other purpose but to kill. A military kills to take land, eliminate those trying to kill them, for resources, or to cause opposition to cease a particular action not just because they want to kill.

Don't forget that great colombian humanitarian Pablo Escobar.

Yep, Israel is targeting civilians. Just today they targeted an apartment complex and killed civilians that were stupid enough or forced to remain in the apartments next door to the commander of a terrorists groups command post/weapond storage in an apartment. Civilian structures are being used as munitions storage facilities and rockets are being fired from 'civilian' homes. The terrorist use ambulances to transport munitions and criminals and the Israeli's know which ambulances aren't supposed to be in the area. Based on the left wing definition of a terrorist or criminal I can shoot their home (with their family in it)up and no one should say anything, and they have no right to defend their family. If someone kills a leftie they can just be buried and forgotten. That's their stand on everyone else, so it should apply to them as well. I expect their wish to start coming true at any time. People are fed up with the anti-american cowards and they would be of more use as fertilizer than they are breathing and wasting oxygen.

Remember when Patsy Murray (Lib-WA) was praising bin Laden because he built roads, schools and hospitals in Afghanistan? I guess therefore, according to Tom Foreman's logic, bin Laden is a bleeping hero just like Hezbollah!

Wayne:

A terrorist uses terror for political gains. Their actions seldom have military or strategic relevance and often target local populace. An Israeli action definitely has military and strategic goals. Taking a piece of land has a strategic goal. Terrorist often will kill for no other purpose but to kill.

I have to disagree here on technical terms. Terrorists don't just kill because they love to do so, there are very real and intended strategic and/or political ramifications of these actions. The idea is to cow the target by instilling such fear in them (terror) that they will give you what you want.

Patty Murray! What a dolt. I believe she was talking about OBL giving aid to Palestinians in her statement. She claimed she was trying to teach those high-school students to "think critically". So she repeats the lie that "we didn't do that" about giving aid!

I printed out the US AID report on yearly aid to Palestinians up to 2001 - it was in the billions -and then added as the last item "2001 - Palestinians dance in the streets on hearing of 9-11". Sent it to her. In reply I got a thankyou for "supporting her position" and a solicitation for money. I hope she's still holding her breath waiting for my check.

What would you call our own US Postal Service for giving the Beirut Peacekeepers the lame reasons for 18+ years for denying a USPS stamp honoring their sacrafice, which included "Beirut did not mean that much to American history and not enough people were killed". It's all on the website.. www.beirutstamp.com

Semper Fi
Bill

I think the most telling difference between a terrorist and an Israeli soldier was the cartoon someone posted a few days ago.

A terrorist is portrayed firing his weapon from behind a baby carriage. An Israeli soldier was portrayed as firing his weapon from in front of a baby carriage.

Simple enough for some of you posters. Nah, probably not. Some are certifiably DUmpster DUmbas*es..

"Yep, Israel is targeting civilians. Just today they targeted an apartment complex and killed civilians that were stupid enough or forced to remain in the apartments..."

I predict we'll be hearing reports any day now of American citizens in Lebannon who have been killed by Israeli fire.

Heralder

You said "Terrorists don't just kill because they love to do so". Actually sometimes they do. Not all of them all the time but some do sometimes.

I did state that they often do it for political gains. You state they do it for strategic gain. Can you give me some example of military strategic gains they strive for. Bombing a bus doesn't gain any resources, ground or deny such to their enemy. Bombing hundreds of buses in a short period would deny a country of a significant portion of its work force but one bus does little but terrorize.

Tell me what many of the ME terrorist groups want besides the total destruction of Israel and western civilization.

Lorie,

There is a much simpler way to break this down. Imagine the Red Cross having a "military" wing. An unelected Red Cross who comes into the United States, opens schools and hospitals for only one demographic (can you say apartheid?), is funded by France, behaves like a "quasi-government", ignores and/or rebels against the US government, sets up a violent military which attacks Canada and Mexico, and starts a war with those neighbors by terrorizing and kidnapping their citizens.

Can you imagine the Red Cross doing such a thing? I can't. But if we talk about them as a charitable organization, then lets compare them to other charities.

To borrow an old saying:

Mussolini made the trains run on time.

I also love MIchael K.'s analogy using the Red Cross. It is pot-on.

Michael K: There was a time, not so long ago, when your description (except for the France bit) would have perfectly fit the Ku Klux Klan.

And an aside: How much snow is there to shovel in Lebannon?

I remember as a kid hearing about how the KKK used to "aid" poor white families in time of need. The Nazi party Im sure built schools and hospitals and provided social services for its people. And we all know that the trains ran on time in Italy under a fascist dictator. So what. I dont have a problem with civilian casualties. I think that there should be civilian casualties when the civilian population aids and sympathizes with barbarians like Hezbullah. I have little sympathy for the civillian population because if they would only learn to behave in a peaceful civilized manner and accept the fact that Israel has every bit as much right to exist as they do and stop encouraging and celebrating the kind of savagery that Hezbullah and its like represent. That is by the way why those stupid people suffer. Not because of Israel but because the align themselves with militant Islamisists who want to turn back the clock to the dark ages. If that is how they wish to live fine. But if they continue to attack a civilized nation like Israel in the hopes of bringing about her destruction then I say the more civilian deaths the better because in the end that may be the only way these people learn.

Didn't we hear this at some point--and I'm parahrasing a collection of throughts here--in the last years about Iraq?:

"Sure Saddam's was a bad guy who committed mass murder on his people, induced envirnmental catastrophies, sought WMDs, has numerous ties to numerous terrorist organizations and bilked billions off the Oil-For-Food program. But, hey, at least he kept the Sunnis off the Shiites and there wasn't the rampant terrorism there is now. So maybe he wasn't all THAT bad after all...."

And the Nazis were pretty good to the German people, too. At least the ones that weren't Jews.

Wayne:

You said "Terrorists don't just kill because they love to do so". Actually sometimes they do. Not all of them all the time but some do sometimes.

I have no reference for this. I don't know if they love doing it or what...but speaking on a whole, there are usually strategic means to their murderous efforts.

Can you give me some example of military strategic gains they strive for. Bombing a bus doesn't gain any resources, ground or deny such to their enemy. Bombing hundreds of buses in a short period would deny a country of a significant portion of its work force but one bus does little but terrorize.

For one, trying to stop voting in Iraq by killing voters, setting off bombs, etc. You don't have to blow up or shoot 1 million voters to stop them, just make the rest think they'll be targets if they come out. Yes, that's terrorism, and it's for strategic gains. Stopping the formation of an organized government keeps chaos in reign and makes it more difficult for the country to stabilize and for the coalition to hunt down the terrorists. It also makes the coalition look bad for failing to establish order.

Hezbollah for instance, has financial backing from Iran and Syria, it's own propaganda machine, and placement in government. This wasn't established just to free them up to do what they love: killing civilians; it's there to help them use terrorism as a medium for strategic gains, no matter how narrow or broad those gains are, they are certainly present.

Tell me what many of the ME terrorist groups want besides the total destruction of Israel and western civilization.

I never disputed what they wanted, only technical terms in relation to terrorism not being used for military and strategic gains. It's key effect, breaking morale, is the idea of many strategic and militaristic objectives.

I hate to say this...but...

Hezbollah provides services, run the schools, collect taxes, etc. in Southern Lebanon. This is in the absence of any other government. Therefore they are long past being terrorists. They are the legitimate government of Southern Lebanon.

Fair enough. They have an army. Their army has attacked Israel. Israel and Hezbollah are, for all intents and purposes, two sovereign nations at war.

Nations at war can and do target civilian populations. Just like the U.S. targeted civilians in Japan and Germany, just like Germany targeted civilians in England. Just like Hezbollah targets civilians in Israel. We may not like it, but that is war.

As to a definition of terrorism - Terrorists are small groups of unelected and illegitimate representatives, who are targeting civilians (often their own people) in the hopes of using fear to bully their way into power. Israel and the U.S. clearly fail this definition.

Also the Geneva conventions do not apply - Both parties must be signatories for them to apply to a conflict. Since Hezbollah has not, there is no protection.

Hamas and Hezbollah want to have it both ways. They want a place at the table as if they were a nation, but don't want the responsibility for their own actions that being a nation would bring.

Big D, you're making sense. Stop that, it's not allowed! ;)

I love this part:

CNN Comment Policy: CNN encourages you to add a comment to this discussion. You may not post any unlawful, threatening, libelous, defamatory, obscene, pornographic or other material that would violate the law. Please note that CNN makes reasonable efforts to review all comments prior to posting and CNN may edit comments for clarity or to keep out questionable or off-topic material. All comments should be relevant to the post and remain respectful of other authors and commenters. By submitting your comment, you hereby give CNN the right, but not the obligation, to post, air, edit, exhibit, telecast, cablecast, webcast, re-use, publish, reproduce, use, license, print, distribute or otherwise use your comment(s) and accompanying personal identifying information via all forms of media now known or hereafter devised, worldwide, in perpetuity. CNN Privacy Statement.

Basically this says you can post a comment, but if you don't post something that agrees with CNN, or something points out the fact that his reporting or explanation is questionable; then it of course won't be posted. Don't critisize CNN, no never do that.

Hitler "was good in the beginning, but went too far" -- Marge Schott.

Cooper is just another walking advertisement for a 100% inheritance tax. His performance at Sago said it all

Many very interesting comments. One of the many differences between our country and Lebanon is that if we had social service agencies sending young men and women out with bombs strapped on their backs to the nearest Starbucks we would shut those so-called social service agencies down.

Hezbollah provides those services for a fee, so to speak. The citizens pay for these services by acting as human shields.

And I agree, the Red cross anology is the best.

Heralder

We are probably not to far off from each other but getting down into the weeds can be messy.

Trying to stop an election by using a few bombs can give strategic political gains but only if it work and it only works by the use of terror. It did not work in Iraq. Killing a million Iraqis would greatly impede the election.

The original argument was "there is no difference between terrorism and Israeli military".

The terrorism only works if it instills fear. Without fear they accomplish little but death. The only gains they and their supporters gain is purely political. Lets not get into relation of politics, war and reality of everyday life besides saying political has more to do with perception then anything else.

If the terrorist were acting as a guerilla group then their actions could be use to build up enough forces to overturn the Israeli government or to soften Israel up so another country could take them out. Their actions do not lead me to that conclusion but the opposite. They seem to only be terrorizing for the sake of terrorizing. Therefore they are terrorist. If they have a different goal beside the one I stated, let me know what it is.

Syria and Iran supports them because that the only means to kill Israelis without getting hurt too much. I am sure some day they hope to be in position to use their military against them. However they are not using the terrorist for any strategic gains beyond political.

My original response was to those inferring that terrorist kill civilians and Israel kills civilians therefore Israel are terrorist. I was just pointing out there are more criteria to be fill before one is consider a terrorist group.

Lee, keep away from those blurry lines with that straw up your nose. If you, mantis and others do not know what a terrorist organization is, and Hezbollah is one, go spend some time in Israel. I suggest going to popular places and riding on buses. I once thought you were just contrary. Now I understand you are just a bunch of idiots.