Fox News has been non stop tally of the number of dead Lebonees children all morning. Is this somehow going to bring them back? It sure isn't going to stop Isreal from bombing more, since they would prefer dead Lebonees children to dead Isreali children. President Bush's call for a real peace making/keeping force is the only answer, other than just letting them fight it out till someone wins.

Anyone who doesn't think that the Arab street isn't totally behind Hezbollah needs to have their head examined. Frankly, since the Arabs started it, I would just as soon the Jews won. Actually, I would sign up to fight for the Jews, since the Arabs are calling for the destruction of America. All of you who would point out that not all Arabs are calling for the destruction of America need to point out to me those that are condemming the statements made by the radicals.

What’s funny is I already knew this without seeing the photos. On the other hand the Islamic nuts and the “Joooos did it” lefties see the photos and still won’t believe it.

Dont they know that they are supposed to wage combat in wide open spaces where they can be clearly seen?

"wide open spaces"?

To far from the coffee house!

Asymmetric War is Hell.

How is cowards acting like cowards something new.If any of these factions were men they would't wear masks or hide in civilian areas,but thats why their called TERRORIST,and not soldiers.

The CNN reports, especially those from Europe (but America too), are so very very very ANTI-ISRAEL, CNN will NEVER show these photos!

"It sure isn't going to stop Isreal from bombing more, since they would prefer dead Lebonees children to dead Isreali children."

That really is the bottom line. And I don't blame Israel. They have LONG had to suffer the innocent getting killed. And I for one have just about had it witht he media completely ignoring the TARGETING of Israel civilians the last 2 weeks by terrorists (make that the last 50 years).

Besides, they dropped leaflets warning the civilians to leave. So either they didn't listen, or (more likely) Hezzbolah kept them from leaving so they could hide behind women and children like the cowards they are. I blame Hezzbolah for this trgedy today, not Israel. And I think most Americans will see it that way too. But you won't hear any of that from the MSM.

We need to wake up and realize (unfortunately) that to defeat these cowards these types of things are going to happen.

Unfornately what will probably happen from this is an Israeli withdrawal, Hezzbolah still around and a loss in this battle on the war on terrorism. Combine this with what is going on in Iraq and you have the West fighting a minimilist war (as Rush calls it) against terrorism. It's high time we wipe these guys out no matter what the costs because if we don't, then it is going to come to our shores again and very soon.

Kirktoe -

There's reports that Hezbollah was preventing people from leaving. Thereby putting them into danger, in direct violation of the Geneva Accords, (see Article 3, Section 1, Line 3). They're hostages, plain and simple.

Hezbollah bears the direct responsibility for their deaths, no matter what CNN might have to say.

And I for one have just about had it witht he media completely ignoring the TARGETING of Israel civilians the last 2 weeks by terrorists

It's kinda been everywhere in the news. I suggest opening your eyes. You may find it helps your ability to see.

Hizbollah undoubtably has prevented many civilians from leaving the areas the IDF warned should evacuate, just so they have the children to hide behind.

"Asymmetrical warfare" is a term coined to attempt to build moral equivalence between those who wage war as "illegal combatants" under the Geneva Conventions with those who wage war under the accepted norms of civilization. Why do some people want to pretend that terrorists are "just like our Founding Fathers" and other freedom fighters? They clearly are not.

These people who wish to blur the distinctions between civilized conduct and utter barbarism usually are rooting for the barbarians.

Death to the barbarians! AND to all their cheerleaders!

>-|

Word is coming out that this building apparently collapsed some 7 hours (at around 8am) after the closest Israeli attack to it at around 1am. There was an attack some 1/2 kilometer away at 7:30 on some other launchers. Israel is saying there was no attack at the time of the building's collapse.

The collapse was likely staged by the Hesbo's for CNN et al.

Next thing you know, Cindy Sheehan will be going real estate shopping in Lebanon to stop those icky Jooos from murdering babies and old people.

Let's see...Hezbollah shoots 100 unaimed missles at Israeli cities on a daily basis, but that's OK, huh? Israel uses counterbattery fire at known launch sites, with full notice to the Lebanese civilians, and innocents get killed, and that's not OK?

Well, excuse me while I go find the Kleenex, 'cause I'm feeling kinda weepy. Know what? I know it's cold, but I don't care. Try shooting missles at San Antonio from Mexico and see what happens. There is little doubt who is inflaming the situation in Lebanon and Palestine, CNN be damned.

I honestly don't think it has ever occurred to Hezbollah that all they have to do is stop firing rockets. They obviously think they can get more milage out of staging collateral damage of their own people by deliberately using populated areas as launch sites. Hey, they've already fooled CNN. Expect strong negative comments from the left by Monday morning.

As I watched the UN Speeches this morning I was struck by the impotence of the UN.

Kofi gave a very frustrating speech.

The Lebanese Ambassador, in his rabid Anti-Israeli tirade spoke for all in the Middle East who wish nothing less than the destruction of Israel.

The Israeli Ambassador gave one of the most powerful speeches that body will ever hear as he explained what all people with half a brain know in their hearts about the worldwide conflict the West faces.

The Video of the Hezbollah missiles, on FOX, and these photos, was devastating proof of terrorist perfidy, and the coverage of the people, some armed, attacking the UN compounds speaks volumes of peoples hatred against Israel, and America, and the ability of radicals to manipulate the poor, and gullible to such acts.

Nothing that comes out of the UN will work, or last.

Well, the apologists for the Zionist state are out in full force.

The AIPAC/Israeli Goebbleesque prop machine is out in full force as evidenced by this initial AP story in Forbes and a report in the French press regarding the "capture" of 2 Israeli soldiers earlier in July. This story about the Israeli Lebanese incursion has been cleverly erased as a result of the typical Zionist propaganda, turning it into a story of a dastardly Hezbollah kidnapping across Israel's borders.

Those currently exhorting the Zionist necessity to defend Israeli borders should consider 2 facts:

1- There was no Hezbollah until after the Israeli/Sharon murderous excesses in the Lebanese invasion of 1982, and

2- there was no Hamas until after the murderous Israeli excesses & collective punishment of Palestinians during the 1987 Intifada.

Ever since the 1967 war, Israel has been driven by a Zionist ruling elite determined to populate & settle the biblical Israel (West Bank & Gaza) and that has set the ground for terrorist response.

Israel's murderous excesses and constant "collective" punishment, just as in their current campaign, have set the fertile ground for terrorist resistance.

And the Rapture Ready Right wails away, led by an idiot president, Bush, who has set the Middle East ablaze in more than one way.

The Geneva conventions should only be followed when all parties in a conflict agree to them and are bound by them. The western powers are acting like a guy in a street fight who claims the other guy isn’t following the Queensberry rules. The term asymmetric not only applies to military power, but also to the rules the parties follow in a conflict, and in that regard the west is at a great disadvantage.

Israel’s attacks on Hezzbolah are militarily significant while Hezzbolah’s attacks on Israel are militarily infective and almost pathetic. Given time, there’s no doubt Israel would destroy the ability of Hezzbolah to attack Israel or even oppose Israel’s invasion into Lebanon. Yet we see growing political pressure on Israel to stop it’s operations before it completes the military objectives. In fact, from watching the Sunday pundits, you would think Hezzbolah was winning the military battle. The only explanation is the asymmetric rules of war the world is imposing on the parties in this conflict.

The west has a concept of “innocent people”, which is most often ascribed to women and children. Hezzbolah and other Islamic extremist groups don’t share that concept as was pointed out forcefully on 9/11. Hezzbolah sees the west’s concern for innocent people as a weakness and they exploit it to the hilt. The best way to protect “innocent people” is to stop being concerned about them. Sounds real harsh, but that’s exactly what the Allies did in WW2. When the west starts seeing the people who support Hezzbolah politically, economically or materially as legitimate targets, that’s when Hezzbolah will stop using them for shields.

What the media pundits of the west don’t understand is that Islamic extremism can’t be pacified by the prospects of peace and prosperity. We are in a war with an ancient enemy that craftily uses every advantage they can find while they build up their military strength to 21st century standards. Wake up before you find your ass pointing to the sky away from Mecca and your lips kissing the floor. That’s what it really means to taste de-feet.

How many of the civilians were actually terrorists? We may never know No one seems to be willing to try to answer it so I will have a go
The answer was likely zero ..unless you include under the category of terrorists: women, old men and children who were sleeping in that building ..The real terrorists, able-bodied men, warned by the IDF pamplets from the air, would have gotten out (mobile launchers in your photo may be a tipoff) It was one of 89 raids Quana suffered that day, leaving only the desperately poor, who apparently received collective punishment for having lived all their lives on the wrong side of the border and not having international passports or the money to Lebanon." As to the larger question whether this is the right strategy to fight terrorists: that is heavy air shelling of civilian areas, and the destroying of village and town infrastructure supporting the Hezbollah, it is beginning to remind one of way the Soviets conducted themselves in Afghanistan in their bloody campaign against the mujahidin, which led to a world revulsion, including the US, and the creation of Al-Queda at the same time.

Wow. I always knew mak was a shit, but I never really delved into the taxonomy of his particular genus and species. But he's finally let it slip: he's an anti-Semitic batshit raving loony.

Let's see...
Comparing Israel to the Nazis: check.

Citing insane conspiracy sites as authoritative sources: check.

Misstating basic facts (the ambush described in the Forbes story was not about Hezbollah ambushing the kidnapped soldiers, but the soldiers pursuing them to rescue their captors): check.

Yup, mak's pretty much clarified his particular strain of insanity and idiocy. No need to take him seriously again.

Ever.

J.

Israel’s mistake over the years has been in thinking Islamic extremists would respond rationally. Thus, when provoked by rocket and guerilla attacks from Lebanon’s territory, Israel thought that a strong military response would deter such attacks in the future. That strategy is based on the fallacy that Islamic extremism can be placated.

So what’s Israel to do now? Liberals seem to think Israel should just pull back and let Hezbollah and Hamas rain down rockets deeper and deeper into Israel hoping to placate the Islamic extremists. Maybe liberals think Hezbollah and Hamas would be stopped by world opinion if only Israel would adopt a pacifist strategy. Israel’s not that stupid nor are they willing to fall on their sword. Islamic extremists will be held back for a time, but...

Jay:

re. MAK44

You mean, you actually took him serious at one time?

Heh. Mak would be right at home in the white supremacist compound in Idaho.
Who knew he was such an extreme right winger?

Zionist State Apologists, mak? Who said I was apologizing for Israel? They're doing what we would do, either individually or militarily.

Go find a dictionary and look up "projection". Then take your meds. It sounds like you've been cheeking them.

Israel is well aware of the true nature of the terrorists, it is Europe and the moderate Arab States that are slowly getting it.

Here is a question.

What if CNN knows that it is being played as chumps by Hezbollah. Would it still report the "baby killers" line because that is what its audience wants?

As far as the poster goes, there's nothing notably strange about the speed with which it was put together.

Throughout the Middle East and South Asia, oversize posters, banners, bulletin boards, even highway sized signs can be painted in a matter of hours. Reproducing them, though, is a problem. There are very few presses in the region able to do that with any speed.

And while the picture's not clear, it does look as though there's blood dripping from Rice's lips. That's also a common trope throughout Asia: bloodthirsty ghouls and all that....

"Asymmetrical warfare" is a term coined to attempt to build moral equivalence between those who wage war as "illegal combatants" under the Geneva Conventions with those who wage war under the accepted norms of civilization"

That may be your definition, but in my view it has nothing to do with morality. Asymmetrical Warfare is one where there is a "David vs. Goliath" difference is size between opponents, and the smaller opponent uses unconventional means to wage war -- like the use of television propaganda, and public opinion, to exploit the larger opponents weaknesses. "Terrorism" is a tactic used in asymmetrical warfare, but it isn't synonymous.

The 48 hour bombing cease fire is a asymmetrical warfare "win" for Hezzbollah, for example. It is a "win" in a war that uses different metrics than conventional warfare, and body counts. That's why comparisons between Iraq and Viet Nam aren't understood by the right -- they compare the body counts and say "huh?" Some just don't get it.

Jay Tea

You are just a silly Rapture Ready Rightie who can't read plain English. Go back & read the AP/Forbes story. It even points out that some sources were Israeli who did not want to be quoted for attribution.

Have you ever read any of what this so-called only-democvracy in the Middle East has done to the people under its thumb over the nearly 4 decades since '67?

Israeli brutality has gone most of the way in creating terrorism in ther Middle East.

Because I don't lick the Israeli ass like you do does not mean that I am anti-semitic. I once was blindly pro-Israeli until I witnessed the murderous bloody campaign that Sharon carried out against Lebanon in 1982. I well remember the Israeli lies & bleating that went on back then as they systematically destroyed Lebanon.

I have seen time & again aver the years the way Israel has inflicted collective punishment against the Palestinian people.

The Israeli motto is: 10,00 eyes for an eye.

There is a reason why the majority of the world has condemned Israeli brutality again & again.

You are just too damned blind to see & a Israeli poll parrot. You couldn't see "propaganda" even if it were labled as such.

You really are a FOOL Jay Tea and not the reasoned man you like to project in some of your musingsd on Wizbang.

Am I the only person here wondering about how long it takes to come up with a banner like that? One that is customized to the current events?

Hmmmmm........

Lee,

Glad to see that you understand that TV propaganda and public opinion are being exploited by Hezbollah. We agree.

Would this include, in your opinion, shooting rockets from near a building where there are lots of women and children, knowing that Israel will figure the origin point and bomb? Would not this play right into the above strategy if they were, in fact, bombed? This would indeed be a win for Hezbollah, true?

And if true, is it not also true that all who follow along this Hezbollah line are being played as chumps?

Yes, mak44 is a shit stain, fer sure.

That really shows a number of mental health issues yet to be dealt with by old shit stain, er, Ak.

As should be clear to anyone who hasn't already learned their history of the past 50 years, bombing Lebanon probably won't make any difference to Israel's long-term stability, and it sure isn't going to make Hezbollah go away. Just another tit-for-tat exercise, just one with larger proportions than the norm.

Re the precise timing of when a building collapses, that seems a red herring. Why does it matter?

Re posters, yawn, Hezbollah is excellent at propaganda. Who says that this particular poster has anything to do with the bombing today? What does the arabic actually say? They make posters all the time, and get this, they actually make big ones too. Can someone weave together this conspiracy theory for me, explaining the grassy knoll and etc.?

Mak44

STFU

Interesting hypothesis (or, if you prefer, wild speculation) for the seven hour interval between IDF bombing and building collapse:

Hez folks needed the time to acquire dead bodies from surrounding areas, demo the building and "populate" the rubble for their "Hezbollywood" production.