Needing a new facelift so the old fossel looks pretty for the cameras, that's a situation to be solved. When someone is actively trying to blow your planes from the sky, your boats out of the sea, your buildings from their foundations, your buses off the road, your trains off the tracks, and your kids at the nightclub, we have something more than a 'situation'.

Well I wouldn't mind if terrorists could be convinced to only kill liberals and blow up liberal cities. That situation wouldn't bother me as much as if they were to try and blow up my city -- is that fair?

Wow, inciteful. Seriously, do you use any of the brain in your head?

Frankly, if the US pulls out of Iraq now, then I pray that no sane nation ever trusts us again. It will prove to the world (again) that we don't like to finish what we start.

The Iraqis? F*ck them like we f*ucked South Asia twenty-five years ago. Right? Isn't that what Pelosi is really saying? Because that's what withdrawing right now will really be - a giant middle finger to the Middle East and an invitation to the terrorists to fill in the vacuum.

The American people may forget about terrorism for a few days or weeks but from what I read today about Chavez helping the terrorists from Hamas and others to get into the U.S. they will get a rude awakening and soon.
As a fact it I saw a terrorists attack being prepared in any of the large cities (all left wing liberals) I would become the three monkeys. See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. Let er rip, the Americans now deserve a monster attack or maybe a dozen since the terrorists now know how they can carry out a dozen as easy as one. Instructions have been provided by the antique MSM and democrats in their hate mode for the president. I have found out how to kill thousands and set the country back for years, all from the media and democrats. The surprise to me was how easy it would be to carry out a massive attack, the only you have to do is watch TV and do no other research other than spending maybe two days casing a place to launch the attack.

Hmmm, did any one say to forget about terrorism??? NOT that I have heard. Last nights vote was a message to the Bush Administration, that the country is not pleased with the Bush Administrations incompetent handling of the Iraq war. Suck it up, and move ahead.

WE can forget all about terrorism, and IslamoFascism ANY TIME WE WANT!!

The terrorists/IslamoFascists, however, will not and HAVE NOT forgotten about us!!

Depend upon it.

Hey Mr. President...you've got NO majority left...and can't get re-elected. Time to GO ROMAN on the bad guys!!! Absolutely ROMAN!!

Right or Left, Blue or Red, I don't really care. I do care if they actually pay some attention to domestic America and get us going in the right direction again. We are the number one consumers in the world, we should also be the number one creators in the world. Lets get domestic A merica competitive again.
Raymond B
www.voteswagon.com

The thing you've got to remember about Nancy Pelosi is that she's not evil; she's just despicable. She's a Democratic hack with a penchant for leaning the wrong way on certain moral issues -- you know, she's a breeder and all that.

But those who say she daily prays, Mecca-ward, for the defeat of our forces and the destruction of the capitalism system, are spouting soyashit.

...Arr, tis Black Wednesday! And the flag be flyin' at half-staff there at the Reagan Regatta. The Christian world will long remember this as the day moderates took over.

Thank God! So thank yer local pirate, mate, 'cuz the good guys are gettin' the gold, at last.

Blessed be the Lord!

kim:

i think that the war on terrorism and the war in iraq just MIGHT be two different subjects for many americans. they are for me.

im still not exactly sure what going into iraq had to do with 9/11, OBL, etc.

i do know that hussein was an asshole, a murderer, and a real piece of work...like other dictator types around the globe. but i also know that the WMDs were never there, and that he wasn't exactly an "immediate threat" as we were told.

i do understand why we went in there, to an extent, and it has more to do with economics and strategy than any direct connection to the war on terrorism IMO. 9/11 opened the possibility for war up, and cheney, rumsfeld, wolfowitz, and eventually bush went for it. we wanted a way to get some kind of stability in a critical and violitile area--the middle east. we wanted to get a foothold in there, and hussein was the weak link, the one who we figured we could take out without too many problems.

well, saddam is gone but now we're having some problems.

just like George HW Bush predicted would happen if he took out hussein in 1991, we have ourselves somewhat stuck in a shitty situation now. we're just sitting there in iraq, stuck in the vacuum. we can't even really define an enemy, let alone allies. we're in the middle of three factions who HATE each other, and we're supposed to WIN? how can we win if iraqis want us to get the hell out? how can we win if there is no clear objective beyond holding our position?

the war on terror, to me, means that we arent safe in out little isolated north american bubble anymore. and now we have to pay attention and watch our asses, like many other nations in the world do. not only do we have to worry about the big guns like china, but we have to be concerned with smaller groups who employ guerrilla (read terrorist) tactics. we cant assume that we're safe from everything because we have a badass military.

9/11 was atrocious, and i was all for going into afghanistan and going after bin laden and his cronies. and thats what we WERE doing. i was all for special ops groups going around destroying al qaida all over the earth, and i was all for us taking a more vigilant approach to security here at home.

but to me starting a huge ground/urban war in iraq was a terrible move. even the connection to al qaida was there, starting some massive ground war wasn't the way to go, because once we took out hussein, and a good amount of the infastructure, we were no longer chasing terrorists, but INSTEAD stuck trying to hold an entire war-ravaged nation together.

good luck, especially if the people arent exactly welcoming us.

im tired of democrats yelling all about how evil bush is, instead of coming up with some way to handle what's happening. and im equally tired of republicas acting like it's treasonous to disagree with the goddamned war in iraq and the way things have been handled.

families from both sides of the political spectrum lost loved ones, let's not forget that. i really hope that SOMEHOW the partisan bickering can stop, and we as americans can figure out a way to start making some headway with our reality. we are in a war, and it ain't going too well. maybe we should make an attempt to "solve this problem," "win this war," or whatever the hell you want to call it.

in the meantime, how about we don't crucify one another in the process?

We can't pull out of iraq.
We fucked up their country.
Who fucked up their country? The good ol' US of A, that's who.

It's too late. We need to stay in iraq. If losing thousands (or hundreds of thousand) more US soldiers is what it takes, tough crap.
We broke it. We fix it.

At some point (I'm not going to put a date on it), they should be secure enough for us to pull-out. At that point, they will have their oil money (from selling it to China, or whoever) so they can keep the security and feed their people.

But make no mistake. This thing is fucked. and it wasn't the "hippies and anti-war marchers" who got us into this fucked situation.

It was those who started this war for control of oil, war profiteering, and to show the world how bad ass America is.

Raise your hand if you were for this war in 2003.
Keep your hand raised and go look in a mirror, because it was you who got us in this fucked situation.

correction:

the 9th paragraph down, second sentence should read "even IF the connection to al qaida was there..."

...and the last line is kinda awkward, but you get the point.

sorry. i type too fast sometimes.

I don't think it's so much as "forgetting" about the terrorists, than it is having another approach.
Now what the hell the democratic approach is...we will find out, hopefully before we get nailed again.
When we do get hit again, let's see democrats lead the way...
It all comes down to HOW to deal with terrorist.
a progressive/liberal way or conservative way.

The point is this isn't a war to win. It's a situation to be solved.

Oh c'mon Madam Speaker, you don't really mean that...isn't it just the botox talking?

I suppose I should be happy, after all we haven't been at war for three years, we've been at situation. A situation that Madam Speaker will give us solution for annnnyyy minute now.

It's cool, I'll wait.

It's not just the Dems who have no plan out of Iraq.
No one does.
Bush's "we'll win the war in iraq" is NOT a plan.
It's a goal.

Thanks Georgie. Now run along while the adults TRY to figure out a plan on how to fix your mess.
(500 lb. elephant in the room: They can't fix the mess).

Robert,

We can't pull out of iraq. We fucked up their country. Who fucked up their country? The good ol' US of A, that's who.

Yes, because entire villges gassed and razed to the ground, fingernails being pulled out, mass graves, rape rooms, and an estimated 2 million innocent people killed over 24 years at the hands of the ruling dictator isn't fucked up.

Kim said: "Children arguing about whose piece of cake is bigger is a situation to be solved. We're talking about terrorists who want to kill us,"

And wining the war in Iraq will put a stop to terrorists wanting to kill is? No, Kim it won't and you know it. It's time to solve this problem, and cutting the rhetoric is a good start. We all know that there is nothing we can do in Iraq to stop terrorism. Iraq is now a breeding ground for future terrorists.

DIdn't losing the election teach you guys anything? Oh, that's right, the Democrats stole the election, or the MSM stole it - whatever - you guys are a lost cause. The world knows it, and the election proves it.

Ryan ... what cave have you been living in? There most certainly were WMD in Iraq. Just what do you think killed over 300,000 Kurds? Did you miss the NYT article telling us that Saddam was one year away from a fully functional nuclear weapons program in 2002?

We went into Iraq, which had been the plan for nearly a decade, to gain a foothold in the Middle East. Iraq to the west, Afghanistan to the east ... and what lies in the center? Yep ... put the old squeeze on the mad mullahs.

Only, it got screwed up .. in a number of ways. We totally did not estimate correctly the insurgency and their tenaciousness. I don't think Bush and his advisers counted on terrorists coming in from other countries like they did. They should have known and planned for that. They didn't and that is perhaps the largest and worst failure.

Then, we tip-toed around Iraq for fear of upsetting the left and the media, when we should have put the hammer down at the start and not let up until the terrorists (aka insurgents) were defeated. But they were more concerned about winning hearts and minds, and not killing a single person that wasn't necessary so as to avoid the "baby killer" meme from 'Nam. We were more concerned about PR than actually winning this thing.

Oh and now you pull out the old "blood for oil" meme. Congratulations. You have been suckered in by a total fallacy. Go read Bill Whittle and get your head screwed back on straight. Then come back and start over.

"Did you miss the NYT article telling us that Saddam was one year away from a fully functional nuclear weapons program in 2002?"

Yeah, I missed it. Got a link?

Lee ... so just what is YOUR miracle plan for solving the terrorism problem?

Same thing as the Democrats? Pretend hard enough that it isn't real and it will go away? Kiss their ass and appease? Fat lot of good that has ever done ...

So, bright boy, what should be the plan, huh?

Robert,

It's not just the Dems who have no plan out of Iraq. No one does. Bush's "we'll win the war in iraq" is NOT a plan. It's a goal.

And whining about how we shouldn't have gone in the first place is the first step to achieving that goal?

Whatever you do Robert, don't blame Saddam, you can't take your eyes off that war-mongering oil-hungry Bush for a single second.

Will we be sitting at the peace table with BIN LADEN and hold a love in? will they pass the hooka around?

"Did you miss the NYT article telling us that Saddam was one year away from a fully functional nuclear weapons program in 2002?"

Yeah, I missed it. Got a link?
Posted by: Lee at November 8, 2006 09:55 PM

It is official. Lee does nothing but babble on with Dimocrat talking points. Or is just retarded.

I vote for retarded.

Among the dozens of documents in English were Iraqi reports written in the 1990s and in 2002 for United Nations inspectors in charge of making sure Iraq had abandoned its unconventional arms programs after the Persian Gulf war. Experts say that at the time, Mr. Hussein's scientists were on the verge of building an atom bomb, as little as a year away.

Read it and fuckin' weep, Lee

Heralder,

I never said it was ideal, but it wasn't even close to the unfixable clusterfuck it is now.

The place is now officially screwed.
You want Pelosi and the dems to fix it? Fat chance.
The so-called geniuses in the Republican party have no idea how to fix it. How do you expect (place your funny, disparaging name for dems here) to fix it?

See that clown in the mirror with his hand raised? He's one (of many) who are to blame.

See the leftist, stinky hippie from San Francisco who "wasted his time" marching against the war and saying it was a mistake?
It's not his fault (but like the rest of us he will be paying for a long, long, long time).

Kim -
Wow, you have Pelosi's entire approach to foreign affairs figured out from one quote. (A quote, by the way, that represents much more integrity and insight than "I don't think about him (OBL) that much").

But since you felt entitled to make that intelletually lazy leap, I'll make one too. You just resent democracy don't you?

Heralder,

Thanks for the compliment, but I'm not omniscient.
I know it seems that way to you, because I knew the war was a mistake before we started it. I chalk that up to common sense more than anything else.

I have no idea how to reach the goal. Neither do you. neither do the Republicans, Democrats, Green Party, etc.

I'm not sure what to tell you.
At this point the republicans pre-election plan of clapping louder might just be as good as anything else we got.

One more thing.

I guess we can lay to rest that moronic and unPatriotic "nows not the time to question the President" idiocy we heard before the war.

That was EXACTLY the time to question the President.
Is there anyone on this blog who still doesn't understand that yet?

Yea robert, we are over there blowing up infrastructure and oil pipelines, and blowing up electrical lines, et al. Oh wait.. thats NOT us is it? Seems to me it's the Iraqis themselves that are the ones currently screwing up their own country instead of figuring out how to compromise with one another and quit blowing each other up.

But I know U.S. forces are just holding a gun to the head of patriots on both sides and forcing them to do it so we can keep them distracted and steal all their oil.

Oops.
Sorry about the redundancy in that last sentence (still/ yet).

I got a little worked up and didn't read it back before I hit "post".

LissaKay, thanks for the link. Nothing in the article supports your contention that Iraq was a year away from building the bomb in 2002.

Maybe you could copy and paste the portion you think says that... or maybe you can't....?

Buddy,

I think you're on to something.
Do you think there is a way to carve out the land and oil between the current Iraqi factions that will lead to a compromise?

Do you think America will allow the Iraqi groups to split the oil without america having any say on who gets the oil and what the groups will do with it (who they sell it to, etc)?

I'm serious.
That might just be a good starting point to negotiating a ceasefire.

Then again, the hatred and resentment runs deep (and long) so I'm not sure anything will end it.

The only way there is a CHANCE it'll work is if America walks away from control of Iraq's greatest resource, and I'm not sure that's something America can do (especially with the sunken cost of trillions of dollars and thousands of soldiers lives).

I'm serious when I write that this is the best starting point to fixing the mess there.

LissaKay,

Nice posts. But there's something about Lee you have to understand. Like cat, He's NOT an American. He is merely here to brainwash the halfwid Democrats into hating Republicans.

And he will NEVER answer a simple question once off his talking points. He's a kerry (if you know what i mean).

definition adj. Someone that is too stupid to respond to simple questions, a moron, a dweeb. Can't read a script. Words that wander and reveal true idiology.

"Among the dozens of documents in English were Iraqi reports written in the 1990s and in 2002 for United Nations inspectors in charge of making sure Iraq had abandoned its unconventional arms programs after the Persian Gulf war. Experts say that at the time, Mr. Hussein's scientists were on the verge of building an atom bomb, as little as a year away."

The had the technology. With sanctions dwindling and inspections gone, it would have taken little time to garner the product needed.

Ryan ... what cave have you been living in? There most certainly were WMD in Iraq. Just what do you think killed over 300,000 Kurds?

he killed them in the 1980s with WMDs, indeed. but those WMDs were dismantled after gulf war one, according to what i have read. hussein was trying to build em, but so far we dont really have any evidence that he had them after gulf war I. even the people on the ground in iraq who were in charge of FINDING the WMDs had little to no evidence, and that was after 12 years of intelligence...

Did you miss the NYT article telling us that Saddam was one year away from a fully functional nuclear weapons program in 2002?

no, didnt miss it. and i also didnt miss the fact that it was talking about hussein in the late 80s.

We went into Iraq, which had been the plan for nearly a decade, to gain a foothold in the Middle East. Iraq to the west, Afghanistan to the east ... and what lies in the center? Yep ... put the old squeeze on the mad mullahs.

i would agree that that was one of the bigger reasons for going into iraq, although the admin couldn't, and didn't, say that a few years back. they had a good feeling that they could take hussein out and get that foothold, so they went for it. but not everyone was behind the idea, colin powell reluctantly went along...again, this is my understanding based upon what i have read.

Only, it got screwed up .. in a number of ways. We totally did not estimate correctly the insurgency and their tenaciousness. I don't think Bush and his advisers counted on terrorists coming in from other countries like they did. They should have known and planned for that. They didn't and that is perhaps the largest and worst failure.

we thought that it was going to be a cakewalk...or thats what bush, cheney, and other wanted to believe. we thought that we would kick hussein's ass and the rest of the iraqis would just lay down. well, they didnt, and now we have this. there were people in the admin who warned of this, but nobody listened. they just wanted to hear how easy it was going to be.

Then, we tip-toed around Iraq for fear of upsetting the left and the media, when we should have put the hammer down at the start and not let up until the terrorists (aka insurgents) were defeated. But they were more concerned about winning hearts and minds, and not killing a single person that wasn't necessary so as to avoid the "baby killer" meme from 'Nam. We were more concerned about PR than actually winning this thing.

well, thats nice. but the problem here is the fact that the whole place IS filled with people that the united states doesnt have a real issue with--the civilian iraqis. so we couldnt really just go in there and level the damn place, that would have been insane and absolutely stupid. urban warfare is brutal because of this very problem.

Oh and now you pull out the old "blood for oil" meme. Congratulations. You have been suckered in by a total fallacy. Go read Bill Whittle and get your head screwed back on straight. Then come back and start over.

indeed, i wrote that we went in there for ecnomic and strategic reasons...and yes oil probably plays some part in that, of course, since it's the reason that the region has ANY semblance of power on the world stage. and it's also something that nations like china and india are going to REALLY REALLY need as they continue to increase their consumption. so of course, we might want to have a hand in the region. i dont think it's all about oil, by any means. it's about economics, power, politics, competition, strategy...it's never just one thing.

i'll read your link and then get back to you on that.

Robert,

The whole 'steal their oil' meme is tired, and there is no proof that it is or has ever occured. Heck if we wanted their oil wtf is in Baghdad or Sadr city that we need to control in order to steal it.