Rangel's been saying this for years. Either you don't pay attention or this is a really badly designed gotcha post.

Hey, slack off. Let Rangel introduce the bill and let the dimwit's pass it. Contact every republican in congress and ask them to abstain from every vote. Let it be a 100% dimwit bill. The only comment a republican politician should have is (hear no evil, speak no evil, see no evil) 'no comment'. If this tactic is successful the republicans won't have to campaign in 08, just set back and get elected.

As we've been saying, this election will be a real comedy for the next two years.

Peeeloshi has been renamed by a liberal rep on FOX news. She is now 'The Wicked Witch Of The West'. Pass it on. ROFL

Let Rangel introduce the bill and let the dimwit's pass it.

This has been Rangel's hobbyhorse for years, and doesn't represent the policy of the Democratic Party. But keep drooling over scenarios that'll never come to pass if that's what it takes to make you happy.

Fine Charlie, but no deferments. And no skipping the military by joining other public service organizations. Lets have a 16+ million strong Army.

Rangel is so full of shit. The Republicans ought to call him on that just for shits and giggles.

"especially on the flimsy evidence that was presented to the Congress,"

Never do they miss an opportunity to lie their asses off. The dumbass probably said "THE STAINED BLUE DRESS" was the flimsiest of evidence also. The filtiest of evidence would be more correct. How much longer does America have to suffer these traitorous criminal frauds?

jpe : My point exactly. Rangel has been screaming this for years and Peeeloshi (The Wicked Witch Of The West) puts him in a leadership position. The republican members of congress should stick him with this bill. Or maybe like the last time the idiot won't vote for his own bill.

We're having great fun with this election cycle, not so for the leftie's. Even winning with anti-American losers is a downer that they can't excape even in they're their drug induced state.

All Charlie Rangel does is throw bombs at the people with ideas about how to move this country forward. Mr. Rangel's greatest skills lay in being able to dismantle something that works well.

The all volunteer U.S. military is the best military organization in the history of the world. We have something like 1.5 or 2 million people protecting 300 million Americans. If you add the rest of the world's population who also depends on our military the number is in the billions. That really says something.

You have to remember, we have not lost a single military encounter in Iraq or Afghanistan. We have had people die, but the men and women in our military have totally opened up a can of whoop ass on our enemies (hat tip to everyone in the US military).

Requiring people who do not want to be there to serve will dumb it down and will significantly lower military performance. If the draft passes, we are taking one of the only things in government that works and will reduce it to a level of performance we see with the rest of the government programs.

Charlie Rangel is a dope. I don't ever recall anything remotely resembling an intelligent thought come from that man. This is just the latest in a long line of idiotarian ideas which he loves to promote.

The one thing Rangel doesn't take into consideration is the fact the military branches DO NOT want draftees.

I joined the Army in 1979 and went to the 82nd Airborne Division for my first assignment. I really, really hate to say this but the Army was really broke down in those days. Drugs were still part of the culture and anyone that served in the 82nd back in those days can verify that the Divisions nickname was the "Jumpin Junkies".

I got out in 1982 after my term and moved home to Norwalk Ohio where the unemployment was a staggering 20%, as part of the early 80's rust belt.

After a year of working the job I had in high school I went back in and never looked back. I watched the military do a 180 and transform into the lean, mean fight'in machine that it is now. Thank you President Reagan. I retired in 2000.

As the saying goes, a unit is only as strong as it's weakest link. Now imagine the disciplinary problems associated with druggies and moonbat hippies that do not want to be there. Why change it from a Professional Army to just an Army for the sake of filling it with bodies to fill the ranks.

Those that volunteer do what they do and obey orders because they want to be there. If we are fully engaged in WW3 and the left finally gets it then, then let them volunteer.

BTW, my son graduates from Basic Training next week at Fort Benning, GA. Then he's off to Fort Sill for AIT, for MOS 13F (Artillery Forward Observer) then back to Fort Benning for Airborne School. Then destination unknown.

Though his letters he is motivated and driving on to do his best. I can't imagine that type of letter to home from a draftee that did not want to be there.

~All the Way, Airborne~

Thor-Zone,

The all volunteer U.S. military is the best military organization in the history of the world.

You are spot on. Knowing that some liberals want to derail this country's military power, it seems logical for them to want to bring back the draft.

If this nation needs more young people in the military then we should up the rewards. Besides pay, then going forward let every military veteran be exempt from federal income tax for every year they were on active duty. Each individual gets to pick when they will use that benefit. This should attract young men and women from higher economic backgrounds given the tax benefit is greatest for those who expect to make the most money. It's a win win deal, both to attract young folks into the military and for the nation. Not only do we get their service, the cost is deferred to the future, but in such a way that likely stimulates the economy. If we are going to give tax cuts, then who better to give them to than those willing to put their lives on the line for the rest of us.

Is it possible to send Rangel over to Iraq or Afghanistan as a truck driver for an independent company for two years AFTER he has to live in rural Wayne County, Mississippi for two prior years?

Thanks Carl, forgot about the idiots remarks about Mississippi in his drive to suck up more homeland security money.

I guess like Hanoi John his remark (a joke) was misunderstood and the republican took advantage of it.

There is an important difference between Rangel's previous calls for a draft and the current one.

Remember, he originally decided to propose the bill to keep the unsubstantiated rumor alive that Bush would institute a draft after the 2004 election. Introducing such a bill was an easy way to get publicity and slap at the Administration from the minority.

Now, Charlie is no longer just a big-mouthed huckster from Harlem. He's the incoming Chairman of the Ways and Means Committee. His hands control the purse strings now. Those who fail to cooperate with him may find their favorite projects don't make it to the House floor.

Charlie is suddenly just like E.F. Hutton: when he talks, people listen.

;-)

Good ole Chuckie Rangel is just trying to screw up the military. Period.

F**K HIM!!

All Rangel is doing is calling the Republicans bluff.

Everyone knows that war is good business as long as their kids aren't having to do the fighting.

Let them institute a draft and see how much more reticent the war profiteers would be if their kids were on the firing line.

The less employable, the poorer kids, the ethnic nationals are the ones asked to sacrifice in the name of good business, war business.

Jumpinjoe wonders why we would want to change it from a professionre army to just an army for the sake of filling it with bodies. Why? Because if we did chickenhawks would be going too and war would become extinct.

Hmm, such a solution probably rankles all you warriors out there but someday the peacemakers will inherit the earth as evolution will take place and hunting and killing people will go out of fashion. The power of the peacemaker will be legitimized and recognized as the natural way of solving porblems by attacking the issues not the messenger.

Just because war has been used in the past doesn't mean it is the vision of the future.

And if you are all so worried about the "terrorists" you might begin by asking yourself if our country was attacked by a foreign militia to change our way of governing in order to secure resources for their use would you be using any and all methods to repel them even to the extent of seeking out the invaders in their own turf?

Don't lie, each one of you know you would think differently if the tables were reversed. No diffrent than what Rangel is doing. He's telling republicans to put up or shut up. Turn the tables and see how quickly the loud mouths are willing to pay their debts.

P.S. It's really not necessary for me to post all the bush administration officials who never served to prove my point now is it.

civil behavior,

Your entire screed is so typical of the naive fools who grow up apart from the reality of the real world. That reality is rooted in human nature and there will always be some willing to use force to gain wealth and power. The response to such people is to either submit or fight. Any young man who's been the target of a bully soon learns that lesson. Maybe you need to experience that first hand to understand why the U.S. needs to be willing to fight rather than submit. History has proven over and over that peace comes from strength and never from weakness.

Like Rangel, you believe that conservatives wouldn't want to fight wars if we had to do the fighting, but many of us are veterans and have children in the military. What we don't want to do is pollute the military with people who don't want to be there and are a liability to others.

Let Rangel propose his draft bill. The GOP should than counter with the federal tax incentive I expressed above. That incentive would attract young adults from economically advantaged backgrounds, the very people Rangel wants to see in the military.

Add "civil behavior" to the club for those with shit for brains.

All Rangel is doing is calling the Republicans bluff

What bluff is that? I missed the details. Quite frankly it is Rangel's bluff using a scare tactic to keep the military loathing lefties riled up.

Of course Rangel wants you to believe that his draft bill is to even out the poor verses rich in the ranks of the military. This is just pure B.S.

The less employable, the poorer kids, the ethnic nationals are the ones asked to sacrifice in the name of good business, war business

Thanks for the example of the total misconception.

As I stated in my post, my only son is in Basic Training right now. I did spent most of all my adult years in the Army myself, however my civilian life has been fruitful. I own two outdoor outfitting stores and this winter will be working on my third. My son has worked for me since high school and made very good money for someone his age. In fact he took more than half a pay cut to join.

Your talking point may have held up 20+ years ago, but in order to be successful in the military you cannot be a dummy no matter what your economic conditions were before you went in.

Everyone I associated with came from middle to upper middle class families. That doesn't mean poorer people weren't joining too for various reasons, it just means you are buying into Rangel's myth. (And John Kerry's)

So in a nutshell, that talking point self life has expired.

Hmm, such a solution probably rankles all you warriors out there but someday the peacemakers will inherit the earth as evolution will take place and hunting and killing people will go out of fashion

That is pure stereotyping of those who understand the threat. WAR! WAR! WAR! KILL! KILL! KILL! Yeah buddy, cha-ching! MONEY! MONEY! MONEY! MONEY!

The difference with this enemy is while you are sticking a daisy in his gun barrel, he has no problem pulling the trigger.

The difference between us is right now I understand what's happening in the world of "jihad" and understand they don't negotiate.

You on the other will learn when it becomes all too obvious, but then it will be too late.

civil behavior: You are really screwed up. The republicans are no longer the rich and famous, but is now made up of the working class that has always protected this country and as a fact, built the country. The rich and famous class that have never worked a day in their lives and aren't willing to protect even they're own families now belongs to the dim's. Sometime in the past 30 years the parties have switched rolls. Now it's the dim's that don't want their children to serve, unless it's serving drugs at a party.

This election just produces more comedy every day as the idiots come out of the closet. You won the election, now produce a result that doesn't get millions killed in the U.S. I don't think you are any more capable of it now than you were in the 90's.

I get a good laugh every day just thinking about the dim's protecting the country. Like the 90's we will have terrorist freely attending flight schools all over the country, but they won't want to learn to land the aircraft, just crash them into buildings.

The republicans will not support the draft but I hope they stay quite and abstain from all votes and let the dim's hang themselves. Save us a lot of rope and trouble later.

Jumpinjoe wonders why we would want to change it from a professionre army to just an army for the sake of filling it with bodies. Why? Because if we did chickenhawks would be going too and war would become extinct. Posted by: civil behavior

How extinct was war during the draft years of the Vietnam era?

CB, you're a delusional moron.

Not one of you has the slightest interest in understanding the other cultures in this world. Not one of you has any concept of the word peacemaking.

Your world is very small. It relates only to the American nationalist warrior state and the kill or be killed mentality no matter that the reason for the killings are the result of years of failed AMERICAN foreign policy, most particularly the last six years. No admittance that America has been a rogue state for years.

Your inability to see the relevance of our actions and the resulting consequences is just another example of small mindedness. Your exhortation that my opinion which has been validated by the last election and your appropriate trouncing wherein the people have chosen MY reality over yours for the sake of our children leads me to believe that this blog and others attract the most radical and fervent Bush groupies who are really the ones unable to admit their mistakes ust like your leaader.

So as for all your attempt at rebuke I suggest you get out more. Try places outside of the US. See for yourself what is happening on the planet you live on. There are lots of problems but many of them have been brought on ourselves by the greed and hubris that has decapitated the sense of community that used to exist in this country. We have exported attitudes and insolence not respect for others and justice for all.

Rangel is spot on. Let the wealthy capitalists who are making the money on the blood and wasted treaseure ante up their young. Watch how quick they find a new business other than war machines to keep thier purses full.

Foolish Americans........

I'm enjoying civil behavior's "The Onion" type satires.

P.S. Someone needs to make those "Don't blame me" bumper stickers. Soon everyone will want one.

Maybe Charlie should just set up a draft in Mississippi, because, you know, who the hell wants to live in Mississippi anyway?

CB, why is the liberal argument always about the kids??? Are we not adults that have enlisted into the military knowing full well the risks and challenges that we face ahead??? Why does it have to involve our parents??? Does everything we do have to involve our parents and if so, how come my parents can't be held responsible for me after I turn 18??? Also, are you saying that every rich, fat cat is a conservative Republican?? What about Hollyweird? Bill Gates? etc. You guys are living in a time warp from the 60's. We in the military don't want unwilling volunteers. We are just fine and don't need the liberal, PC touch.

Maybe Rangel heard Bush's bullshit about the war in iraq being for the future of civilization.

Maybe he bought Bush's bullshit (I wouldn't think that would be such a stretch on this board).

Maybe Rangel knows we don't have enough troops to win the war over the future of civilization.

Or maybe he was just calling out the war supporters.

If the Right wants to callout rangel, all they need to do is have the college republicans march down to the recruiters office.

I know. You can file that last idea under "Fat Fuc**n' Chance".

Why does the right want us to lose the war over civilization??

This "get out in the world" thing is a riot. In the "world" Pakistan just made (or is trying to make) RAPE illegal. They're trying to actually make it so investigators can look at forensic evidence instead of stoning a raped woman for adultry if she can't get four adult MALE witnessess to say it was rape.

THAT my dear delusional friend, is the real world.

All the sanctimonious preaching about love and brotherhood and blaming it on the isolation of us militant sorts takes no account of Pakistan, none of Dafur, none of most of the former Soviet Union, none of Central America, none of South Asia. The delusional ones are those sitting on their arses in the good old US of A talking about how *we* are the uncivilized, violent ones.

You know who "gets out?" People who join the military "get out" and see the real world. They live in Europe, in Japan, in Turkey... they go TDY to the sex pot and exploitation arm pits of the world and they see what other people in other places think about human dignity and the value of human life.

And even then... it doesn't take going there to see, all it would really take is watching the news and paying attention. Pay attention... read about overseas adoption to find out how people view the value of children in their own cultures who aren't there own. Think about what it means to the larger picture.

Oh sure... we're the cause of problems...

Idiot.

Oh, and demographic of military members, numbers darned easy to find, show exactly *who* is joining our military and it is not the poorest by any means. The poorest areas of the country, the poorest 20% geographically, contribute way less than 20%... something like 13% or so of recruits.

Civil Behavior could at least get easily obtained numbers correct.

The war has been lost. Bush's closest advisors are saying it publicly now.

Former Secretary of State Henry A. Kissinger, who regularly advises President Bush on Iraq, said today that a full military victory was no longer possible there. He thus joined a growing number of leading conservatives openly challenging the administration's conduct of the war and positive forecasts for it.

"If you mean, by 'military victory,' an Iraqi government that can be established and whose writ runs across the whole country, that gets the civil war under control and sectarian violence under control in a time period that the political processes of the democracies will support, I don't believe that is possible," Mr. Kissinger told BBC News.

Watching you political dinosaurs grazing on the day's headlines it is obvious that you guys will be the last to know. Last one to get it is a conservative!

The best news is that he even admits that there exists a civil war in Iraq now - not the "happy talking point" crap from the White House that the civil war is a figment of the Democrats' imaginations.

"Bush's closest advisors are saying it publicly now."

Kissinger is one of Bush's "closest advivors?"

Since when Lee? Have you seen him enter the White House of late? I'd ask you if your wiretap caught a conversation between the two but we KNOW that to be impossible.

And you have the nerve to call conservatives political dinosaurs. Kissinger hasn't been relative for a couple of decades.

Civil behavior:
If "the poorer kids are the ones asked to sacrifice in the name of good business, war business", then how do explain how recruitment from the richest 20% of the country has gone UP since 2000 (now providing 23% of all recruits), while recruitment from the poorest 20% has gone DOWN (providing only 13% of recruits)?

If "the less employable are the ones asked to sacrifice in the name of good business, war business", how do explain that 97% of recruits are HS grads, compared to 80% of the general population? And that recruits have a mean reading level a full grade level above their peers?

If "the ethnic nationals are the ones asked to sacrifice in the name of good business, war business", then how do you explain that both African-Americans and Hispanics are UNDERrepresented in the military compared to the population at large?

And how do explain that all of these standards are IMPROVING as time goes on?

When Rangel (and 14 Dem co-sponsors) proposed the bill to reinstate the draft it was called up in '04 for an immediate vote. Rangel called it a "dirty trick", even though it proved just how little support there was for it and it subsequently squashed the rumors that it was Bush's or the Republicans' idea. He should be chastizing John Kerry for that. Kerry was the one who kept insinuating during his campaign that Bush was thinking about re-instaing a draft. Hollings(D-SC) submitted an identical bill in '03 (with NO co-sponsors) which still sits there, dead on the floor.

Rangel said himself he introduced the bill to make a political point. And Rangel's own vote was - NAY.

The only two YEA votes were John Murtha and Pete Stark.

Now Rangel wants to pick this turd up off the floor, polish it off and submit it again?