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Moore BS, or it ain't over 'til the fat guy stops singing

Some time ago, some kind soul thought that my life was just incomplete as long as I lacked semi-regular e-mails from Michael Moore. So they signed me up for his mailing list, and since then my outlook on life has improved as if I'd discovered a new fabric softener or deodorant.

Today, I get another load of crap from the guy who should have stuck to making bogus "documentaries" and stayed the hell out of politics. It was just so delightful, I just had to share it (properly annotated, of course).

Cut and Run, the Only Brave Thing to Do

Sunday, November 26th, 2006

Friends,

Tomorrow marks the day that we will have been in Iraq longer than we were in all of World War II.

That's right. We were able to defeat all of Nazi Germany, Mussolini, and the entire Japanese empire in LESS time than it's taken the world's only superpower to secure the road from the airport to downtown Baghdad.

And we haven't even done THAT. After 1,347 days, in the same time it took us to took us to sweep across North Africa, storm the beaches of Italy, conquer the South Pacific, and liberate all of Western Europe, we cannot, after over 3 and 1/2 years, even take over a single highway and protect ourselves from a homemade device of two tin cans placed in a pothole. No wonder the cab fare from the airport into Baghdad is now running around $35,000 for the 25-minute ride. And that doesn't even include a friggin' helmet.

Mr. Moore here (along with the rest of those making the World War II comparison) betrays his utter ignorance of history here. The US involvement in World War II did, indeed last 1,347 days, counting from the attack on Pearl Harbor until the surrender of Japan -- but that was the actual war-fighting. The "major combat operations." Because we were fighting three modern, industrialized, militarized nations, we had to crush each of them utterly. Italy fell when its own people turned on their fascist masters. Germany had to be almost literally bombed back to the stone age, then invaded and nearly every inch conquered. And Japan was bracing for a similar fate when they noticed that two of their cities had put up "gone fission" signs, and we were promising to continue doing that to more cities.

A truer comparison would be from the date of the US invasion (March 20, 2003) to the fall of Baghdad and the collapse of the Baathist government (April 9) -- three weeks.

Now, of course, Mr. Moore is conflating the major combat parts with the occupation and rebuilding. Since he brought up World War II, let's take a look at that.

Germany remained under Allied control until 1949, when the Western powers ceded their districts to the Federal Republic of Germany and the Soviets created their puppet regime of the German Democratic Republic. This partitioning remained until 1990, when the German people finally took their fate back into their own hands -- and got away with it, because the Soviets were far too busy worrying about their own rapidly-dissolving totalitarian regime. That brings the total time of "war and occupation" to about 49 years, give or take a few months.

Unless, of course, you count "occupation" as "having US forces still present." In which case, we come up to the present day.

In Japan, the official occupation lasted until 1952 -- ten years and change after Pearl Harbor. And as in Germany, US forces are still present, so it can be argued that we are still stuck in the "quagmire" of World War II.

Is this utter failure the fault of our troops? Hardly. That's because no amount of troops or choppers or democracy shot out of the barrel of a gun is ever going to "win" the war in Iraq. It is a lost war, lost because it never had a right to be won, lost because it was started by men who have never been to war, men who hide behind others sent to fight and die.

This is the obligatory "we support the troops" bit. Of course we'd NEVER blame the poor, stupid grunts for the decisions made by their leadership.

But let's go back to Mr. Moore's touchstone, World War II. We actually did inflict "democracy shot out of the barrel of a gun" on Germany and Japan, and it seems to be holding up. And President Roosevelt never served a day in his life in uniform, yet he sent hundreds of thousands of Americans off to fight and die in a war that eventually cost millions of lives.

Let's listen to what the Iraqi people are saying, according to a recent poll conducted by the University of Maryland:

** 71% of all Iraqis now want the U.S. out of Iraq.

** 61% of all Iraqis SUPPORT insurgent attacks on U.S. troops.

Yes, the vast majority of Iraqi citizens believe that our soldiers should be killed and maimed! So what the hell are we still doing there? Talk about not getting the hint.

I kind of lost a lot of my faith in "polls" and "surveys" a long time ago. We tried government policy by polling back in the 1990's, and it didn't work out too well then.

There are many ways to liberate a country. Usually the residents of that country rise up and liberate themselves. That's how we did it. You can also do it through nonviolent, mass civil disobedience. That's how India did it. You can get the world to boycott a regime until they are so ostracized they capitulate. That's how South Africa did it. Or you can just wait them out and, sooner or later, the king's legions simply leave (sometimes just because they're too cold). That's how Canada did it.

Of course, none of the examples fit the Iraq model. All those examples are of the end of the British colonial empire. The United States drove them out by force. India appealed to the British conscience. Canada just outwaited the British. And South Africa's apartheid structure was a legacy of colonialism.

In Iraq, the government had no ties to foreign powers. It was an entirely native-born tyranny.

Also, none of the examples Moore cites were of a nation that threatened its neighbors, employed WMDs against its enemies both foreign and domestic, and routinely flouted the terms of its surrender in a prior war.

The one way that DOESN'T work is to invade a country and tell the people, "We are here to liberate you!" -- when they have done NOTHING to liberate themselves.

Tell that to the Kurds and the southern Shiites. They rose up against Saddam, on our encouragement, after the first Gulf War. But in a stunningly cynical display of realpolitik, our government (mainly Jim Baker, I believe), we hung them out to dry and allowed Saddam to slaughter them wholesale.

And then tell it to the Germans and the Japanese.

Where were all the suicide bombers when Saddam was oppressing them? Where were the insurgents planting bombs along the roadside as the evildoer Saddam's convoy passed them by? I guess ol' Saddam was a cruel despot -- but not cruel enough for thousands to risk their necks. "Oh no, Mike, they couldn't do that! Saddam would have had them killed!" Really? You don't think King George had any of the colonial insurgents killed? You don't think Patrick Henry or Tom Paine were afraid? That didn't stop them. When tens of thousands aren't willing to shed their own blood to remove a dictator, that should be the first clue that they aren't going to be willing participants when you decide you're going to do the liberating for them.

The only way a war of liberation has a chance of succeeding is if the oppressed people being liberated have their own citizens behind them -- and a group of Washingtons, Jeffersons, Franklins, Ghandis and Mandellas leading them. Where are these beacons of liberty in Iraq? This is a joke and it's been a joke since the beginning. Yes, the joke's been on us, but with 655,000 Iraqis now dead as a result of our invasion (source: Johns Hopkins University), I guess the cruel joke is on them. At least they've been liberated, permanently.

I thought Moore had gotten past his odious comparison of the Iraqi terrorists to our Founding Fathers, but I guess he is still stuck on stupid here and thinks that Patrick Henry and Tom Paine would be proud to be compare to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and Muqtada al-Sadr.

During the American Revolution, the biggest strike against a purely civilian target was, to the best of my recollection, the Boston Tea Party -- an economic strike against a private business. In Iraq, civilians are often the target of choice by those who Moore so vilely compares to the original Minutemen.

So, where were all these insurgents during Saddam's regime? A great deal of them were part of it. Even more weren't even in Iraq at the time. And some -- the younger ones -- were still children.

And it must be remembered that Saddam DID NOT TOLERATE dissent. Kindly note that in his recent trial, he was charged -- and convicted -- of ordering mass killings in the village of Dujail. The offense? Someone had tried to assassinate him near there.

So I don't want to hear another word about sending more troops (wake up, America, John McCain is bonkers), or "redeploying" them, or waiting four months to begin the "phase-out." There is only one solution and it is this: Leave. Now. Start tonight. Get out of there as fast as we can. As much as people of good heart and conscience don't want to believe this, as much as it kills us to accept defeat, there is nothing we can do to undo the damage we have done. What's happened has happened. If you were to drive drunk down the road and you killed a child, there would be nothing you could do to bring that child back to life. If you invade and destroy a country, plunging it into a civil war, there isn't much you can do 'til the smoke settles and blood is mopped up. Then maybe you can atone for the atrocity you have committed and help the living come back to a better life.

OK, folks, the war's over and we lost. Michael Moore, a college dropout who never served a day in the military, says so. And John McCain, a man who spent years being tortured as a prisoner of war, is "bonkers."

I recall McCain at the 2004 Republican National Convention, when he singled out Michael Moore for a slam from the podium (and a round of boos from the audience). Could Moore still be mad about his little moment in the limelight?

Apparently Mr. Moore thinks that once the United States leaves, everything will be just hunky-dory. Those people currently blowing up and shooting and beheading civilians by the scores will just up and quit, quite possibly being "greeted with flowers as liberators."

The Soviet Union got out of Afghanistan in 36 weeks. They did so and suffered hardly any losses as they left. They realized the mistake they had made and removed their troops. A civil war ensued. The bad guys won. Later, we overthrew the bad guys and everybody lived happily ever after. See! It all works out in the end!

Funny how Moore fast-forwards from "the bad guys won" to "we overthrew the bad guys." What happened in the meantime? Well, a little thing called the Taliban happened -- the Islamist thugs who brutally oppressed their own people and gave a home to an innocuous little group called Al Qaeda. You might have heard of them -- they're the ones who killed 3,000 people in New York, Pennsylvania, and Virginia back in September of 2001. Yeah, that's an example we should be looking to emulate.

The responsibility to end this war now falls upon the Democrats. Congress controls the purse strings and the Constitution says only Congress can declare war. Mr. Reid and Ms. Pelosi now hold the power to put an end to this madness. Failure to do so will bring the wrath of the voters. We aren't kidding around, Democrats, and if you don't believe us, just go ahead and continue this war another month. We will fight you harder than we did the Republicans. The opening page of my website has a photo of Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, each made up by a collage of photos of the American soldiers who have died in Bush's War. But it is now about to become the Bush/Democratic Party War unless swift action is taken.

My, someone's feeling his oats. "Do what I say, or I'll put pictures of you up on my web site?"
What makes Michael Moore think that he holds such sway over the Democratic Party?

Hmm... maybe his place of honor next to Jimmy Carter at the 2004 Democratic National Convention. Or perhaps it was the number of Democratic leaders who attended the premiere of "Fahrenheit 9/11" -- and praised it. Like it or not, the Democrats decided to embrace him -- and now they have to live with his sweaty arms all over them.

This is what we demand:

1. Bring the troops home now. Not six months from now. NOW. Quit looking for a way to win. We can't win. We've lost. Sometimes you lose. This is one of those times. Be brave and admit it.

2. Apologize to our soldiers and make amends. Tell them we are sorry they were used to fight a war that had NOTHING to do with our national security. We must commit to taking care of them so that they suffer as little as possible. The mentally and physically maimed must get the best care and significant financial compensation. The families of the deceased deserve the biggest apology and they must be taken care of for the rest of their lives.

3. We must atone for the atrocity we have perpetuated on the people of Iraq. There are few evils worse than waging a war based on a lie, invading another country because you want what they have buried under the ground. Now many more will die. Their blood is on our hands, regardless for whom we voted. If you pay taxes, you have contributed to the three billion dollars a week now being spent to drive Iraq into the hellhole it's become. When the civil war is over, we will have to help rebuild Iraq. We can receive no redemption until we have atoned.

I think we've seen this before. Oh, yeah, Viet Nam, especially the first and third points. The second point is the one lesson the anti-war movement learned from that conflict -- as emotionally gratifying it is to spit on the troops and call them baby-killers, it's a bad PR move long-term.

Of course, Moore neglects to mention that those engaging in rebuilding Iraq right now are among the favored targets of his "Minutemen." He doesn't explain just how our rebuilding will happen without our getting butchered -- that's one of the main jobs of our forces in Iraq right now, and if they come home and wait for the slaughtering to subside, we're going to have a very, very long wait.

And in the meantime, how many more will be killed?

In closing, there is one final thing I know. We Americans are better than what has been done in our name. A majority of us were upset and angry after 9/11 and we lost our minds. We didn't think straight and we never looked at a map. Because we are kept stupid through our pathetic education system and our lazy media, we knew nothing of history. We didn't know that WE were the ones funding and arming Saddam for many years, including those when he massacred the Kurds. He was our guy. We didn't know what a Sunni or a Shiite was, never even heard the words. Eighty percent of our young adults (according to National Geographic) were not able to find Iraq on the map. Our leaders played off our stupidity, manipulated us with lies, and scared us to death.

Yeah, some of us did lose our minds. Michael Moore among them, who is the most prominent proponent of the "Bush did it!" theory. Others of us woke up to the real threats.

"Our pathetic education system and lazy media?" Way to go, Mike. You just pissed all over two of the Democrats' biggest groups of cheerleaders -- teachers and the press.

"WE were the ones funding and arming Saddam for many years?" Yeah, we backed him when he took on Iran -- he was the "lesser of two evils," and he seemed to provide a check on Iranian expansion. As far as funding and arming him -- from 1973 to 1990, the United States supplied Saddam with a grand total of 0.5% of his imported arms -- all between 1983 and 1989. The three leading nations were the Soviet Union, France, and China -- and as I recall, Russia, China, and France were three leading members of the Security Council that opposed the US-led invasion.

But at our core we are a good people. We may be slow learners, but that "Mission Accomplished" banner struck us as odd, and soon we began to ask some questions. Then we began to get smart. By this past November 7th, we got mad and tried to right our wrongs. The majority now know the truth. The majority now feel a deep sadness and guilt and a hope that somehow we can make make it all right again.

Unfortunately, we can't. So we will accept the consequences of our actions and do our best to be there should the Iraqi people ever dare to seek our help in the future. We ask for their forgiveness.

Funny, I don't recall that last election being a referendum on anything. In its most visible race, anti-war Ned Lamont managed to do do the unthinkable -- lose as a Democrat in Connecticut -- and war champion Joe Lieberman retained his seat.

And as far as guilt... sorry, that's the purview of the hypersensitive, blame-America-first, whiny gits. I feel a sense of responsibility, but it's not the sort that makes me want to run back home and apologize to the world in the hopes that they'll eventually like us again.

Because I don't recall things the way that Michael Moore and his ilk do. I recall a vast outpouring of sympathies for the United States after 9/11, but I also recall a lot of people cheering and rejoicing, and a lot of people saying that "we should look at what provoked it" and a healthy dose of fear -- of how the United States would respond to that savage attack.

It affirmed one of my core beliefs: that the United States is only truly loved and accepted when we're on our knees -- either reeling from a surprise attack, or begging forgiveness and offering bribes for acceptance.

We demand the Democrats listen to us and get out of Iraq now.

OK, a little bit of grammatical snark: I have no problems with this. But I don't think that there are a lot of Democrats in Iraq now anyway.

Yours,

Michael Moore

Thanks for your advice, Mike. As a student of international affairs and scholar of matters military and political scientist, you're one hell of a propagandist.

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Comments (60)

The bottom line here, the U... (Below threshold)
ted:

The bottom line here, the USA is being defeated in Iraq etc. NOT by the terrorists. The USA is and/or has been defeated by itself

Hence, the USA* beat the USA in Iraq. So in that sense, the USA wins when we cut and run.

(*USA includes Michael Moore, media, Democrats, etc. who ostensibly are a part of the USA.)

This appears to be the only foreign where the USA can win and lose at the same time -- by fighting itself.

(Sort of gives "fighting it over there instead of over here" a new meaning.)

Who is Michael Moore to dem... (Below threshold)

Who is Michael Moore to demand anything? This coming from a guy who thought 9/11 was some revenge plot for people who didn't vote for Bush in 2000.

Or, in other words, the civ... (Below threshold)
ted:

Or, in other words, the civil war within the United States between the Dems/Michael Moore's/MSM/self-hating Americans, on one side, and the pro-American/defend America types, on the other side, is being fought on foreign soil in Iraq.

And, if anyone questions this, just ask, which side here wants which side there to win, really, honestly.

Thanks for reminding everyo... (Below threshold)
Hugh:

Thanks for reminding everyone about the real timelines in WWII (and its denouement, the Cold War) and the fact that then the US had to destroy the enemy in a manner that we have not employed in Iraq.

The philosophy, if you can ... (Below threshold)
Mitchell:

The philosophy, if you can call it that, that undergirds this drivel is that America's enemies can do no wrong, and America can do no right.

If your "logic" proceeds from the idea that there is some ill-defined, nefarious plot emanating from the White House at all times, then you come up with this stuff.

And, no historical perspective is required, obviously.

I agree with JT on this one... (Below threshold)
observer 5:

I agree with JT on this one. I've spent some time in Iraq as a contractor since the invasion, up to earlier this year. Withdrawing now would be a mistake. There is a chance at a shambling, reasonably-decent state in Iraq. The bad guys are very murderous and can't be allowed to win.

That said, the situation is very grim now and has been since the Samarra mosque bombing in March. I know many Iraqis who have left Iraq since then. The daily life of people in Baghdad is full of horror. There is some truth in the assertion that our occupation has excited some of the insurgency.

The cynicism with which the war has been waged by the Bush Administration makes me angry - especially the way the troops have been abused with lengthy, repeated tours, and the generally half-assed way things were done in planning, staffing and supporting. Especially not securing the huge ammo depots for months after the invasion, and not doing something about Al-Sadr in 2003-04. Rumsfeld and his bosses will have a lot to answer to history for.

On the issue of the USA's f... (Below threshold)
observer 5:

On the issue of the USA's funding Saddam, Moore is right on that. The USA provided almost $5 billion in government-guaranteed loans to Iraq through the USDA's Commodity Credit Corporation from 1983 to 1990. Iraq defaulted on more than $2 billion of this when they invaded Kuwait.

The diversion of this money to weapons purchases, some through the Banco Nazionale di Lavoro (BNL) and managed through front companies such as Matrix Churchill, controlled by Iraq's Military Industrialization Ministry, caused the "Iraq-gate" scandal in the USA, and the Matrix Churchill scandal in the UK.

Here is a brief abstract of some of the details

o'5-are you some kind of st... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

o'5-are you some kind of store house for knowledge? Gosh, maybe we should just turn the world over to you. Mighty deep BS there. Don't get to full of yourself and explode.

As Jay Tea points out Micha... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

As Jay Tea points out Michael Moore has a rich and fertile imagination, but I don't think his fantasies have had quite the enormous consequences and dissonance from reality that the administrations' has: for example Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolowitz pre-war prediction that "Behind the notion that an American intervention will make of Iraq 'the first Arab democracy,' lies a project of great ambition. It envisions a post-Saddam Hussein Iraq -- secular, middle-class, urbanized, rich with oil -- that will replace the autocracy of Saudi Arabia"..and so forth See How a War of Unbound Fantasies Happened- Iraq :The war of Imagination. The history of the sins and omissions of the invasion, may be ancient history but Bush/Cheney continue to alarm us to the new domino effect of a caliphate from Spain yes Spain to Indonesia (raising the stakes even higher).

Well, by Moore's logic, the... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

Well, by Moore's logic, the only reasonable and just thing to do to right this wrong and illegal war is take Saddam out of prison and put him back in power; after all that will restore the peaceful existence every Iraqi knew before liberation.

I wonder if he's for that.

Ya, Michael Moore's politic... (Below threshold)
ryan:

Ya, Michael Moore's political analysis and advice is about as useful as Ann Coulter's.

The faster we get away from those types, the better off we are. They're just trying to sell books and t-shirts.

I'd go for that, Peter, und... (Below threshold)

I'd go for that, Peter, under one caveat:

We hang him first.

J.

"OK, folks, the war's over ... (Below threshold)
jp2:

"OK, folks, the war's over and we lost. Michael Moore, a college dropout who never served a day in the military, says so."

Well Jay, I don't know anything about your stats and education - but I know you have never served.

Say what you want about Moore - but his predictions have been far more accurate than yours.

Super smart non college dropout Jay Tea on Iraq:
"I don't believe they have the manpower, the resources, the munitions to keep up these attacks for very long."

It's okay though - all of you neo-cons were dead. wrong.

jp2: OK Bubba, we're wrong ... (Below threshold)
SShiell:

jp2: OK Bubba, we're wrong - now set us right. What do you propose to do about it except sit behind your keyboard and b*tch about it.

Put an idea out there! You spend a whole lot of time whining and point out our failings but not one word as to the right thing to do. You and the rest of the Democrats now in power get to do what you haven't done in 12 years - tell us what your plans are. Do us all a favor and show how wrong we are by telling us what we need to do. Go ahead, put your head in the noose. Step out on that limb. We want to quote you for a change.

We'll wait.

I was aiming for a little i... (Below threshold)

I was aiming for a little irony there, jp2: I am just as qualified as Michael Moore -- on paper -- to discuss military matters. The difference is, I have conducted rather extensive "independent studies" on matters historical and military, so in a one-one-one debate with him, I could probably take him.

And I'd still like to hear from you (or Lee, the original troll I posed it to) YOUR solution. No fair going back and re-writing history, either; your solution has to take the current situation as is.

Or is all you can do to whine and complain and critique?

J.

See? Even SShiell agrees wi... (Below threshold)

See? Even SShiell agrees with me. Or, I with him.

J.

Wow, it's absolutely mind-b... (Below threshold)

Wow, it's absolutely mind-boggling what some people got from this breakdown of the sophomoric rantings of an imbecile named Michael Moore.

A thanks for the reminder of the WWII timeline?

Michael Moore's "fantasies" wouldn't have "enormous consequences"?

And then the "neo-con" bomb drops? Ow!

OK, folks, the war's ove... (Below threshold)
Brian:

OK, folks, the war's over and we lost. Michael Moore, a college dropout who never served a day in the military, says so.

Well, so does Bill Frist. And he's a psychic doctor, so that should count for something.

I'm not sure comparing the ... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

I'm not sure comparing the number of days we were fighting WWII to the number of days we are in Iraq is relevant.

But if you want to compare WWII to OIF, can anyone tell me how many Americans were killed during those 1347 days in WWII? How many were killed in Iraq in 1347 days?

MARTIN SCORSEE,OLIVER STONE... (Below threshold)
spurwing plover:

MARTIN SCORSEE,OLIVER STONE,MICHEAL MOORE,ED WOOD Jr, Hollywoods worse all time directors

I concur with Jay and the ... (Below threshold)
Steve Crickmore:

I concur with Jay and the hawks, Democrats haven't really tried to make a strong case for an alternative to continuing the war, except for the vogue phrase 'redeploynent' or but this is partly because the administration would almost never accept recommendations such as the following: but let me try.. World War 2, which Jay describes as the highpoint of American political heroism also brought Stalin to Yalta to carve up Europe and send Soviet soldiers on the Western Front back to Moscow to face summary execution well as condemn many civilians and countries in Eastern Europe to the Soviet bloc.. To solve or more realistically surround the problem of Iraq, likewise would probably involve the same sort of 'big power' face saving, or shopping of the lesser players, and the lowering of our sights from such lofty goals as 'democracy on the march' to the elimination of the notion of permanent American bases in Iraq.. The US will probably have to bring in Damascus, Ankara ,Tehran and other capitals that have an interest in a stable (or instable) Iraq...perhaps the UN too, withdraw US troops from Baghdad, perhaps keeping alone the prospect of its air power) all measures anathema to the Bush administration..Hey, no one said Yalta was attractive either...

"I have conducted rather ex... (Below threshold)
jp2:

"I have conducted rather extensive "independent studies" on matters historical and military"

lol

Again, and I emphasize the again, Michael Moore has far more accurately predicted the path this war has taken than you have JT. So the "debate" you propose is already over, with you being the loser.

"What do you propose to do about it except sit behind your keyboard and b*tch about it."

For one, I propose strenghting the military just out of general principle. That means all war supporters enlist, even bloggers. I do think people being connected to the wars they want is an important step to never making these kinds of mistakes again. Take your lumps.

That being said - there is no good solution that me or any set of councils could come up with it. It is as MM and Dean have said all along - a quagmire. The country is now broken at the core.

However, if I was on the council I would do the following:

-End the presence of troops in the unfriendly parts of the Arabian peninsula as soon as possible. This is a reason for the extra special inflamed hatred of America. This is one of the main reasons bin Laden was able to round up the mass amount of funds and people to fuel his versions of terrorism. We are not welcome and do more harm than good.

-Diplomacy. I like that Cheney is visiting the house of Sa'ud right now, although he is completely hamstrung. We have to bring every single pertinant player in the world to the table and drum up support for a stable Iraq. This is impossible with the current administration. They have blown it.

-As far as ditching goes - and it feels damn awful to say - it's necessary. Phased withdrawl over the next Friedman Unit.

We will fight you ... (Below threshold)
Jumpinjoe:
We will fight you harder than we did the Republicans

Yours,
Michael Moore

I'm not on the mailing list but I would like to reply:

My letter to "fat bastard"

Yo Mike, Wuzz up,
You were right. Americans are pretty stupid. Hell, there are still moonbats out there quoting your movie Fahrenheit 9-11. I guess they missed all those web sites that spanked your facts pretty bad.

Any hoot, as a "republican" I'm just going to step out of your way and not say anything while you demand your "mandate".

Hell man, you deserved it. You knew how to play to the stupid people and manipulate them.

So I give you two tears tops to make your point to Nancy and Harry and if they brush off your mandate, it's time to cut them off so you can get some real progressives in office.

I'll just sit back and watch from over here. Have at it man.

Word Up,
Jumpinjoe

Jay, this post is a thing o... (Below threshold)
JimK:

Jay, this post is a thing of beauty.

Whenever I hear anything co... (Below threshold)

Whenever I hear anything coming from Michael Moore's clap-trap, I always think about last his Oscar-winning performance (which he should have won but was robbed). No, I'm not talking about Farenheit 9/11, I'm talking about Team America: World Police. If you haven't seen it yet, go rent it and you'll agree, the best part of the movie was when he blows himself up!

Ergo, whether it comes from Michael Moore's pie-hole or from a terrorist, it's all the same: Two people who desperately want/need/pray that the US fails in Iraq. He might think he's patriotic, but as has been pointed out before, what's so patriotic about defeat? Maybe some of you liberal trolls can enlighten me about that.

JP2: It is as MM and Dean h... (Below threshold)
ran:

JP2: It is as MM and Dean have said all along - a quagmire. The country is now broken at the core.

Yes, over and over again, thanks to BDS.. The Dem's concern for the "Troops" was overshadowed by their hatred for Bush. Scandalous bunch of finger pointing whining.. nevermind..Oh.. and YES I served, so what!

Jay Tea, a very well writte... (Below threshold)
WildWillie:

Jay Tea, a very well written rebuttal. I enjoyed the comments also. Well, most of them. Keep up the good work.

WW

I look for Mike Moore to be... (Below threshold)
Burt:

I look for Mike Moore to be very hard on the Democrats. After all, they are the ones who humiliated him on national TV by making him sit next to Jimmy Carter. Sure, he's disgusting but is he really that bad?

jp2 still watiing on your "... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

jp2 still watiing on your "plan". Don't give us the one we have been hearing for years which no one has been able to decipher from the moonbats on the left. You are not from there are you?

o'5-are you some kind of... (Below threshold)