"I look at them unflinchingly and see meat"

For those who’ve been living in a cave, this story out of Philadelphia is lighting up the ‘sphere and rightly so:

An abortion doctor in Philadelphia has been charged with eight murders, including seven babies who prosecutors say were born alive then killed with scissors.

Dr. Kermit Gosnell, 69, and nine employees from his West Philadelphia Women’s Medical Society were arrested Wednesday. He and his staff also are charged with killing a woman who was given a lethal dose of Demerol.

The details are incredibly horrific and a true indication of how sick and demented one can become when their vocation is centered on killing the innocent.  There are a number of folks covering this in the kind of detail that should get wide play but for link filled brevity, see Kim’s post below.  She cuts through the haze on this and includes pics that should simply leave you reeling.

And speaking of reeling while bringing us back to the title of this post, Matteo takes us to Pharyngula, a site that touts itself as the world’s best science blog, for related opinions from a tenured biologist who teaches at the University of Minnesota:

First, never quote Mother Teresa at me — she was an evil hag who worshipped poverty, who did not help people except to encourage them to suffer more for her faith, while she lived in comfort and traveled far and wide to receive the accolades of the gullible. I would never find the words of that wicked woman persuasive.

Secondly, the standard bullying tactics of waving bloody fetuses might cow the squeamish, but I’m a biologist. I’ve guillotined rats. I’ve held eyeballs in my hand and peeled them apart with a pair of scissors. I’ve used a wet-vac to clean up a lake of half-clotted blood from an exsanguinated dog. I’ve opened bodies and watched the intestines do their slow writhing dance, I’ve been elbow deep in blood, I’ve split open cats and stabbed them in the heart with a perfusion needle. I’ve extracted the brains of mice…with a pair of pliers. I’ve scooped brains out of buckets, I’ve counted dendrites in slices cut from the brains of dead babies.

You want to make me back down by trying to inspire revulsion with dead baby pictures? I look at them unflinchingly and see meat. And meat does not frighten me.

The only words that come to me when I read something like that are the words from Scripture describing God giving those who acknowledge Him not over to a depraved mind. 

If seeing dead babies unflinchingly as nothing more than meat isn’t evidence for depravity, there is no depravity.  This biologist clearly shares the mindset of Kermit Gosnell. Might God have mercy on them and on those who think like them. 

I cannot.

Just What The Doctor Ordered
Mad Dog Finally Put Down
  • G.

    I have nothing to say…words fail me right now.

  • GarandFan

    “You want to make me back down by trying to inspire revulsion with dead baby pictures? I look at them unflinchingly and see meat.”

    “Back down” from what?

    And here I thought Dr Mengele was dead!

  • jim m

    Evil doesn’t back down. It only waits for it’s own destruction.

  • Justrand

    GarandFan, even Dr Mengele would cross the street to avoid these monsters!

    But the Democrat Party exists to promote the theme that “Abortion is AWESOME”, so nothing is ever TOO monstrous for them!!

  • Roy

    So, now biologists are giving pedophiles a run for their money in the “how low can you go” scumfest?

  • Woop

    Threatening the lives off abortion doctors has consequences, doesn’t it?

  • Speaking of depraved minds… Woop, what in hell are you talking about?

  • howcome

    And the winner of the dumbest comment on the internet goes to, whoops.

  • f1guyus

    I’ll wager things would be different for this creep if the “Meat” could fight back.

  • Brett

    Threatening the lives off abortion doctors has consequences, doesn’t it?

    That is not only the dumbest thing you have ever said (which is a high standard indeed), it is utterly and completely inapplicable to this situation. Or do you propose that people protest the Philadelphia DA’s office for a terrible miscarriage of justice against this kindly old gentleman.

    Actually, twit, I stand corrected. You just keep defending butchers and psychopaths like this, and please spread your opinions far and wide. It will make excellent fodder to finally prove your “side” is utterly and completely immoral and unworthy of any further attention.

  • Eric

    Brett, not immoral, amoral.

  • G.

    Like I said(thanks whoop)I have nothing to say…words fail me right now.

  • G.

    Oh, stand by for the left’s defense of Mengele…er Gosnell…they have to.

  • Justrand

    G.: “left’s defense of Mengele…er Gosnell

    For every one bad doctor like Gosnell, carelessly butchering children, there are thousands of doctors butchering babies carefully

  • Woop

    Gee, you wiznuts sure fail a lot.

    When you threaten doctors and their families with their lives if they engage in the legal practice of providing abortions you scare the good ones away and get results like this,

    But you clowns never see the consequences of your actions.

    Until we get something like this.

    I’m sure you will fail to understand the consequences of demonizing abortion doctors. Quite simply, most of you are not very smart.

  • epador

    Well, pharyngula’s point was to say that just sending horrible photographs does not make an argument. Its similar to PETA actions. His post and thread of comments, however, mostly drifts off this point to simply ridicule anti-abortion (of course using the term anti-choice) folks, because some make ineffective emotional/religious arguments that are easy for the scientifically minded to dissect, guillotine and dismember.

    What is horrifying in that thread demonstrates the utter blinded hatred as well as disdain for those that oppose abortion on any grounds shared by the intellectual and scientific minds of his regular posters. Read carefully and you’ll see their arguments in support of abortion, though couched in medical terms, are about as unscientific and belief oriented as the arguments they are belittling. It reads, not surprisingly, like statements you’ll find in Robert Lifton’s “The Nazi Doctors.”

  • LeBron Steinman

    15. Posted by Woop

    Okay, honey.
    People are paying attention to you.
    You can stop banging your lefty rattle against your high chair.

  • epador

    So only crazy, demented people feel strongly enough about the “right of choice” to risk their lives to offer that service. Hmmm, woop, I think your argument has a problem there.

  • I look at them unflinchingly and see meat.

    No doubt the excuse used by a lot of serial killers, too.

  • You know, when PZ dies in the distant future (THAT’S NOT A THREAT, WOOP) without repenting, if Fred Phelps’ clan of inbred hatemongers decide to protest his funeral, I may actually find myself standing alongside them for once. Honestly, anyone mourning at his funeral would be stupid to do so because, after all, a dead PZ Myers would be just “meat.” (STILL NOT A THREAT, WOOP.)

  • DaveD

    #15
    “When you threaten doctors and their families with their lives if they engage in the legal practice of providing abortions you scare the good ones away and get results like this,..”

    Seriously, you must realize that this statement makes no sense. However, if you can point me to a study surveying licensed members of the medical profession (or medical students) that gives some hard numbers on doctors that have steered themselves from being abortionists and have instead been forced to choose other less savory, demeaning specialties such as orthopedics, cardiovascular surgery, neurosurgery then I would be interested.

  • One more thing, Woop is deriding the imagined threats against abortion doctors while completely ignoring the very real, very fulfilled threats on the lives of babies in this country since 1973. Honestly, you can count the number of doctors murdered by psychopathic extremists on one hand. How many hands do you need to count the tens of millions of babies murdered in this country alone since 1973?

  • Eric

    When you threaten doctors and their families with their lives if they engage in the legal practice of providing abortions you scare the good ones away and get results like this

    Woop you are projecting here. The VAST majority of pro-lifers don’t threaten the lives of abortion doctors. That’s not to say that there aren’t kooks out there. But if you think every pro-lifer should be responsible for their kooks then you should accept responsibility for the kooks on your side of the debate, such as the killer of James Poullion and Dr. Gosnell.

    Also, keep in mind that the State of PA has not inspected this guy since 1993. It would appear that the Pro-Choice forces politicized the inspection process so much that you get results like this.

  • DaveD

    By the way Woop, you don’t happen to be a tenured biologist who teaches at the University of Minnesota?

  • Jim Addison

    One of the better arguments against tenure is this fellow. The “academic freedom” it was supposed to deliver has turned instead to insular groupthink leftism, and the sort of utterly depraved and perverted people like this biologist.

    Very sad situation – at least we have the comic relief of Woop, of all people, telling others they aren’t very smart.

  • Unbelievable, huh? While we all know that genuine evil lurks, when confronted with it, even if just in print, it sickens the soul.

    http://www.rightturnforever.com

  • GarandFan

    “First, never quote Mother Teresa at me — she was an evil hag who worshipped poverty, who did not help people except to encourage them to suffer more for her faith, while she lived in comfort”

    Worshiped poverty? Providing what little she could for those thrown into the streets to die?

    This same ASSHOLE probably worships the ground Al Gore walks on.

  • Woop

    “imagined treats against abortion doctors.”? thanks for illustrating the point that wiznuts haven’t a clue.

    Any doctor who contemplates providing abortions in the current climate of hate and given the history of murder by wing nuts is going to have to be crazy to enter that field.

    And that’s exactly what we got in this ace, isn’t it. One insane doctor.

    But don’t expect the right to understand the consequences of their actions, much less accept responsibility for their part in this.

  • GarandFan

    z”But don’t expect the right to understand the consequences of their actions, much less accept responsibility for their part in this.”

    “Their part in this”?

    You really are off your rocker, aren’t you?

  • jim m

    “You really are off your rocker, aren’t you? “

    Yes he is. Unlike the more rational members of the left, who have understood that the monomania of supporting abortion has lead them to stop inspections for fear that such regulation would have a detrimental effect on availability, woop only sees the people who would have pushed for that regulation as being at fault.

    The pro-life faction would have regulated this guy out of business if they could the pro-abortion wanted no scrutiny at all. Since the dems had control of the government in Philly they got their way: no regulation. It was that lack of regulation that allowed this monster to stay in business. It was that same dem controlled government that refused to investigate reports of malpractice as the AP says, because the victims were minorities so they weren’t considered that important.

    Like all lefties woop blames everyone but the left even though there is no other group that would have enabled this monster. Frankly, I am pleasantly surprised that the left has not come out in a full throated defense of this doctor.

  • Jeff Blogworthy

    One of my very favorite quotes:

    The madman is not the man who has lost his reason. The madman is the man who has lost everything except his reason. — G.K. Chesterton

  • Woop

    Woop you are projecting here. The VAST majority of pro-lifers don’t threaten the lives of abortion doctors. That’s not to say that there aren’t kooks out there.

    Clue: it only takes one nut with a gun.

    The far right fringe have painted targets on the backs of abortion doctors for years.

    If you don’t think that has had the intended effect — to reduce the number of doctors who will perform abortions — you’re an idiot.

    The unintended effect? Read the post above.

  • DaveD

    “If you don’t think that has had the intended effect — to reduce the number of doctors who will perform abortions — you’re an idiot.”

    As I asked above, do you have any data that have shown that a significant number of doctors have acknowledged giving up doing abortions because of feeling threatened. One or two doctors doing so would not significantly alter the availability of service.

  • Woop


    HISTORY OF VIOLENCE
    Since the 1973 Roe v. Wade Supreme Court decision that made abortion legal, there has been an organized campaign by anti-abortion extremists which has resulted in escalating levels of violence against women’s health care providers. In an attempt to stop abortion, anti-abortion extremists have chosen to take the law into their own hands.

    What began as peaceful protests with picketing moved to harassing clinic staff and patients as they entered clinics and eventually escalated to blockading clinic entrances.

    This foundation of harassment led to violence with the first reported clinic arson in 1976 and a series of bombings in 1978. Arsons and bombings have continued until this day. Anti-abortion extremists have also used chemicals to block women’s access to abortion employing butyric acid to vandalize clinics and sending anthrax threat letters to frighten clinic staff.

    In the early 1990s, anti-abortion extremists concluded that murdering providers was the only way to stop abortion. The first provider was murdered in 1993. Since then, there have been seven subsequent murders and numerous attempted murders of clinic staff and physicians, several of which occurred in their own homes. In 2009, NAF member Dr. George Tiller was shot and killed in his church in Wichita, Kansas.

    You have to be crazy to be an abortion doctor. And that’s exactly what we’ve got in this instance.

  • epador

    Are you saying Dr. Tiller was crazy? Or that there were only 8 providers willing to put their life on the line to provide abortions (kill fetal life)? I still think there’s a big hole in you argument woop.

  • DaveD

    Woop,
    Thank you for condensing the historical record on several isolated cases of violence against abortion providers. I believe, however, this means you have no objective data on how the perception of violence against abortion providers has effected not only the numbers willing to perform this service but also how this violence has affected quality of service. The record you cite gives absolutely no quantitative or qualitative support for your assertion no matter how you might wish it so. Since you seem so free to make assertions based on personal bias alone I am sure you will be gracious enough to accept some from me. I would guess the greater reason many healthcare personnel choose not to participate in this particular service in the medical profession is that they find it unrewarding and maybe even a bit troubling. On a broader view there are other dangerous jobs such as law enforcement and I am sure you would not tell your local policeman that the quality of folks going into law enforcement is much poorer because of the inherent danger in the job. You wouldn’t tell a cop that, would you?

  • The far right fringe have painted targets on the backs of abortion doctors for years.

    Oh, please. Yes, the far right FRINGE — FRINGE, YOU GIGANTIC ANAL OPENING — has done this. The 99.99% majority of pro-lifers have not. Yet you are accusing that majority based upon what the fringe does. Of course, you would vehemently object if we pointed to the far left fringe to accuse and slander the majority of pro-choicers.

  • HISTORY OF VIOLENCE
    Since the 1973 Roe v. Wade Supreme Court decision that made abortion legal, there has been an organized campaign by anti-abortion extremists which has resulted in escalating levels of violence against women’s health care providers. In an attempt to stop abortion, anti-abortion extremists have chosen to take the law into their own hands.

    Oh, son. You really don’t want to go there. You really, really don’t. I could easily and simply point out this abortion doctor — and that is what he is — in Philly who murdered eight people. That’s twice as many murders as there are abortion doctors who have been murdered. And that’s not even the tip of the iceberg. Here’s a site that has collected — with reliable documentation — incidents of pro-choice violence from the not-so-far, not-so-fringe left:

    http://abortionviolence.com/

    They also include the relative few instances of pro-life violence for comparison. It took 20 years after Roe v. Wade for an abortion doctor to be murdered. Pro-choice violence has been going on since at least 1966.

  • What began as peaceful protests with picketing moved to harassing clinic staff and patients as they entered clinics and eventually escalated to blockading clinic entrances.

    Oh, so then you disagree with left-wing protesters who picket, harass people and blockade buildings regarding issues of war (e.g. Cindy Sheehan, Code Pink[o]), animal treatment (e.g. PETA), economics (e.g. SEIU, G8 protesters), the environment (e.g. Greenpeace, Earth First), etc.? Oh, no. Of course you don’t.

  • This foundation of harassment led to violence with the first reported clinic arson in 1976 and a series of bombings in 1978. Arsons and bombings have continued until this day. Anti-abortion extremists have also used chemicals to block women’s access to abortion employing butyric acid to vandalize clinics and sending anthrax threat letters to frighten clinic staff.

    I love how vague these claims are. No details. No dates. No indication of how widespread or limited these incidents are. The way these claims are made, you’d think these were daily incidents.

  • In the early 1990s, anti-abortion extremists concluded that murdering providers was the only way to stop abortion.

    Oh, puh-LEEZE!!!! While even one murder is unacceptable, in almost 40 years, you still have only 7 murders to cite. Hardly fits the ridiculous and, laughably, the completely serious hyperbole of the quoted sentence.

    The first provider was murdered in 1993. Since then, there have been seven subsequent murders and numerous attempted murders of clinic staff and physicians, several of which occurred in their own homes. In 2009, NAF member Dr. George Tiller was shot and killed in his church in Wichita, Kansas.

    Any murder is wrong, but these few murders are not indicative of the entire pro-life movement.

  • You have to be crazy to be an abortion doctor. And that’s exactly what we’ve got in this instance.

    So you are admitting that all abortion doctors are crazy, that they are all like this piece of excrement in Philly, and that none of them are sane. You’re saying that Tiller was just like Gosnell.

  • Bob

    I myself been elbow deep in deer guts, goose guts, rabbit guts, whatever… Big deal.

    But if you can look at a dead human (especially an infant) unflinchingly, you have a severe mental defect.

  • Don L

    “Brett, not immoral, amoral.

    “Sorry, but we still have that small prblem of our Creator telling us that, “You are either with me or against me” and that leaves no room for amoral in this -the most grave of all moral issues.

  • Olsoljer

    Woop cant answer right now, he is down in his mothers basement whacking off to hannibal lector movies.

  • Engaging a psychopath like Woop is one of those “gazing into the abyss” exercises Nietzsche warned against.

  • You give Woop’s b.s. far too much credit.

  • ryan a

    epador makes a good point that’s worth paying attenting to (#16):

    “Well, pharyngula’s point was to say that just sending horrible photographs does not make an argument. Its similar to PETA actions.”

    With that, Myers has a solid argument. Shocking pictures garner plenty of attention, but they don’t really provide an argument. I agree with your observation, epador, definitely.

    The problem, though, is that Myers–not one to shy away from polemics–didn’t stop there. He ended his post with a poor choice of words, if you ask me–and that’s an understatement.