Boehner to Obama: Take your higher taxes and shove it

In so many words.

Hats of to Boehner… the world is learning that there’s no negotiating with the thug-in-chief:

House Republican leaders have called off negotiations with the White House over a broad deficit reduction deal tied to an increase in the federal debt limit and will begin exclusive talks with Senate leaders to avert a government default on Aug. 2, Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) announced Friday.

Boehner told House Republicans in a letter that President Obama is “adamant” about raising taxes and would not agree to “fundamental changes” to entitlement programs.

“For these reasons, I have decided to end discussions with the White House and begin conversations with the leaders of the Senate in an effort to find a path forward,” Boehner wrote in the “Dear Colleague” letter.

Boehner will now feel the wrath of Obama’s curmudgeons in the media but let’s hope he finds some Palin backbone and sticks to his guns…  speaking of Palin, now would be a great time for her to give him a call and say exactly that.

Get the popcorn folks, this is gonna get interesting.

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  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_AXDLBHGWBWIDXWT2LH62AO7I4M Real American

    Another example of how the far right does not care about the will of the American people. The American people are going to vote cryin’ John out of a job for this.

    • Meiji Man

      I’ll bet you your grandchildren’s future they don’t.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

        Hopefully your grandchidren’s future doesn’t depend on GOP policies – because the majority want a debt ceiling increase to include increases in tax revenue.

        http://www.politicususa.com/en/debt-ceiling-tax-hike

        • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

          Put down the crack pipe and step away from the keyboard.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

            Sorry Rodney. But your fantasies of my current actions are almost as far away from reality as your party’s current policies.

          • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/EU5DQWQTTHTPO4A4ZYSL3AAV2U Adjoran

            Half-wit.  Obama and the Democrats have NO PLAN at all – other than a vague idea they can raise taxes in a weak economy.

            If they are out to destroy the country, their plan is going well.

          • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

            Adjoran,

            In this case it seems to me that lack-wit is far more pertinent than half-wit, as you’d be giving too much credit by half…

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

            Rodney,

            Still waiting for you to admit you were wrong. Must be embarrassing to be proven wrong by me. By your measure, that would seem you have less wit than me. Fortunately I’m more charitable, and simply know you as someone who would prefer to maintain the appearance of being right rather than the more difficult reality of being right.

          • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

            My claim was that the poll of all adults (which favors democrats whereas polls of registered voters favors Republicans) showed support for Cut, Cap, and Balance running at 2:1 in favor.  And sure enough:

            In another proposal, Congress would raise the debt ceiling only if a balanced budget amendment
            were passed by both houses of Congress and substantial spending cuts and caps on future spending
            were approved. Would you favor or oppose this proposal? (Cut, Cap, Balance)
            July 18-20
            2011
            Favor 66%
            Oppose 33%
            No opinion 1%

            66% : 33% as 2 : 1

            QED

            Were it not for innumeracy there would be no democrats.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

            You’re apparently having an argument with someone else. Also, you disagree with 2/3 of America. Besides that, you’re doing great.

          • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

            My claim was that the poll of all adults (which favors democrats whereas polls of registered voters favors Republicans) showed support for Cut, Cap, and Balance running at 2:1 in favor.  And sure enough:

            In another proposal, Congress would raise the debt ceiling only if a balanced budget amendment
            were passed by both houses of Congress and substantial spending cuts and caps on future spending
            were approved. Would you favor or oppose this proposal? (Cut, Cap, Balance)
            July 18-20
            2011
            Favor 66%
            Oppose 33%
            No opinion 1%

            66% : 33% as 2 : 1

            QED

            Were it not for innumeracy there would be no democrats.

    • Anonymous

      “Another example of how the far right does not care about the will of the American people.”

      You mean the 2/3 of the American people who want spending cuts over tax increases?

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

        No, more likely the 2/3 of the American people who want a tax increase ALSO.

        http://www.politicususa.com/en/debt-ceiling-tax-hike

        you’re welcome.

        • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

          Here (above) we see a rather desperate propagandist attempting the many repetitions variation of the big lie…

          http://hotair.com/archives/2011/07/21/oh-my-ccb-bill-gets-2-1-approval-among-adults-in-cnn-poll/

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

            Actually, here we see that in *your comment*, Rodney.

            Seeing as how you’re referencing a hardly-nonpartisan Hot Air critique of a CNN poll that *doesn’t* mention tax revenue increases, and using that to claim the Quinnipiac poll *I’M* stating that DOES mention tax revenue increases is somehow wrong.

            Well, if you want to mention any reason why the poll I’ve presented is wrong, please do so.

            Otherwise, I’ve presented the information to you, and you’re free to deny it as you wish.

          • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

            Rubbish.

            I included the link to the Hot Air piece before you ever got here, and you failed to note it.  For reference, here’s CNN’s Poll complete with Questions, answers, and cross-tabs.  See particularly questions 21-23 and 25.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

            Balderdash and folderol. You posted that Hot Air link as if it refutes mine, and it simply does not.

            For why, you should perhaps look at the CNN poll you just cited. In particular question # 24 – which you somehow skipped over, funny enough. Why is that? Because it shows %73 to %76 approving an increase in taxes!

            Let me repeat that for you – YOUR OWN POLL SHOWS THAT %73 TO %76 OF THE PEOPLE WANT AN INCREASE IN TAXES AS PART OF THE DEBT CEILING DEAL.

            Which is even MORE than the number the Quinnipiac poll shows.

            Now that I’ve shown you are wrong with your own poll, will you admit it?

          • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

            jb,

            I had originally posted the Hot Air analysis of the CNN Poll more than two hours before you made your addle-pated appearance.  I posted the analysis because, as is the usual practice among leftards and the press (but I repeat myself), CNN buried the lede.

            Compare to the 74% who want a balanced budget amendment.

            Then go check your cross-tabs.

            Then have someone who is literate and numerate explain it all to you.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

            OK, fine. You posted your poll before I posted mine. And? Tell you what – let’s say you posted it two DAYS before I posted mine.

            Please tell me what that has to do with YOUR POLL ACTUALLY SHOWING THAT MY POLL IS RIGHT, INSTEAD OF REFUTING IT.

            Do you understand the question, or do I need to repeat it?

            You really have 3 choices here:

            1. Go straight to question # 24 in the poll you cited, and explain how it does NOT back up my assertion that 2/3 or more of the people want tax revenue increases.

            2. Swallow your pride and admit that I’m right

            3. Continue to assert other irrelevant things such as when you posted your poll, which are simply avoiding my central point.

            Which is it going to be?

          • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

            I find that I must admit error.

            It wasn’t crack, it was unicorn farts.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

            So its option 3. Cool!

          • Frank O’Connell

            If Rodney had to admit it every time he’s wrong this blog would be full of his corrections.

            He’s not the smartest bulb on the tree, jb. Take pity on him. It’s obvious you’re correct and he’s wrong as usual — just don’t expect sad little Rodney to ever admit it.

          • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

            If Frank O’Connell’s errors were deleted he’d have no comments on this blog.

          • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/EU5DQWQTTHTPO4A4ZYSL3AAV2U Adjoran

            If his parents’ errors were deleted, there’d be no trace of him at all.

          • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/EU5DQWQTTHTPO4A4ZYSL3AAV2U Adjoran

            If his parents’ errors were deleted, there’d be no trace of him at all.

          • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

            Clearly bang has no friends who are both literate and numerate.

          • Anonymous

            Other than wanting their side to win, what other possible reason would anyone have for giving these idiots more of their money?

        • Anonymous

          The problem with that poll is that while it asks IF they think that (along with spending cuts),  “32. Do you think any agreement to raise the national debt ceiling should include
          only spending cuts or should it also include an increase in taxes for the
          wealthy and corporations
          ?”  (boldface mine)

          Note that it doesn’t say how much those taxes should be raised, or how to go about it.  Also look at the bit where it doesn’t include increases in income tax rates for middle class Americans.  It could be anywhere from a 1% to a 100% increase in taxes, the way it’s worded there.

          Meanwhile, a similar Rasmussen poll:

          http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/taxes/july_2011/55_oppose_tax_hike_in_debt_ceiling_deal

          Came up with a very different answer:

          “As part of legislation to raise the debt ceiling,
          should congress and the president raise taxes?”

          55% said no. 

          You see, that’s the thing: you can always get some people to agree to raise taxes on someone else.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

            Other people’s sacrifices are always easier, sure. : ) That still doesn’t mean raising taxes or even closing tax loopholes is a bad idea.

            Or that it’s unpopular.

          • Rick Spyker

            JB, raising taxes in this economic environment would be a disaster. And it wouldn’t do a damn thing to reduce the debt. 700 billion over 10 years is nothing. A drop in the bucket and you know it. It’s political posturing so that you Democrats can appease your clueless base seem to think that all rich people are Republicans (when the truth is most of the wealthy in this country are Democrats). You people love class warfare. Which is why you are losing so badly.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

            Rick, closing tax loopholes and putting the taxes on the wealthy back to where they were under Clinton would help solve the deficit. And it would certainly do more than other cuts that are on the table – such as cutting heating oil subsidies for the elderly.

            Why is cutting heating oil subsidy for the elderly something we can talk about – but having Exxon and GE pay ANY taxes on their profits is not?

            And how is it political posturing when Democrats *do* raise taxes on the wealthy, as CLinton did? To the benefit of the entire economy, I might add – because when taxes are invested in programs that benefit the poor and middle class, the entire economy **including** the rich benefits.

            As for who is losing so badly – say hello to two-term President Obama. Boehner basically sealed it today.

          • Anonymous

            The problem with this theory is that, historically, to increase revenue, taxes need to be cut. Happens every time. Tax hikes, on the other hand, would further push down the economy which is already distressed, thanks to Obumble.

            http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2010/09/obama-tax-hikes-the-economic-and-fiscal-effects

            And just wait and see what Obumblecare will do to the economy.

            The biggest economic danger in the future is the exploding interest on the national debt, driven to a large extent by the debt piled up by Obumble’s “Stimulus Plan” fiasco. If we are saying hello to a two-term President Obumble, we are saying hello to a third-world economy in this country. Anybody know where I can learn to speak Chinese?

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

            The problem with the theory that to increase revenue taxes must be cut, is that it is simply and provably untrue.

            Bill Clinton RAISED taxes on the wealthy, and increased revenue.

            George W. Bush cut taxes on **everyone**, and we went from the Clinton surplus into a deficit.

          • Anonymous

            Nope. The ongoing increase in revenue during the Clinton years was due to the energized economy brought about by the Reagan tax cuts. The Clinton tax increases started dragging the economy down toward the end of his presidency and into the beginning of the Bush presidency. After Bush cut taxes in 2003, revenue again increased, nearly a full 50% by the end of his presidency.

            Revenue would still be going up, except that Obumbles has destroyed the economy.

          • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

            A quibble.

            The economy has not been destroyed (quite, yet), just mauled and hobbled.  Which is why 0bama must go in 2012.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

            Nope, sorry. The Clinton tax increases were early into Clinton’s presidency, and helped fully pull us out of the debt hole that Reagan and Bush 1 put us into.

            Clinton’s policies continued to give us two terms of prosperity, AND gave us a surplus. GWB’s tax cuts only dug a deeper hole than his completely unncessary war in Iraq AND the pharmaceutical giveaway that GWB lied to his own party about.

          • Anonymous

            “Why is cutting heating oil subsidy for the elderly something we can talk
            about – but having Exxon and GE pay ANY taxes on their profits is not?”

            Over the last 40 years, the US tax code has been undergoing a major change in design.  The idea has been to shift income tax liability from corporate taxes to taxing the people who OWN the corporations.  Back in the 1950s and 1960s, the idea was that the corporation would pay taxes, and the people who owned that corporation wouldn’t pay as much.  This avoided double taxation (since the corporation and the shareholders would be paying taxes on the same profits), and kept IRS manpower at a minimum.

            Starting in the 70s, the burden started shifting to the individual shareholder.  That way, it was easier to perform audits (it’s much easier to ding someone for the amount they made on their shares, as opposed to auditing a major multinational corporation).  Unfortunately, the process got about halfway done – and stopped.  So now we have a mishmash of both – large corporations pay some tax on profits, individuals pay the rest.

            One of the other things to think about is that while a lot of large companies “pay no US taxes,” it’s because most of their profits are made overseas.  Since the money made by Exxon in (for example) Saudi Arabia is already taxed – and taxed heavily, in most cases – they don’t pay taxes on that money until they bring it into the US – and more and more often, they don’t bring that money back here.  If we started to tax them anyway (“yeah, we know they paid tax already, but we’re going to tax the hell out of them here too”), it would just give them that last impetus to move completely overseas with no US presence except retail stores – and we’d lose that constant stream of cash flow.

            Here’s the kicker: while Exxon didn’t pay anything in income tax in the US for 2009, it still paid almost $8 billion in US taxes and fees of various sorts – and then their shareholders had to pay personal income taxes on their dividends.

            One way around this would be to simplify the tax code – and make it either 100% “corporations pay tax and shareholders don’t” or 100 “shareholders pay the tax and corporations don’t.”  If we go with the latter, we’d also need to reform capital gains taxation (which is currently a bit “light” due to the assumption that most corporations will pay some tax along the way).

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

            That didn’t really answer my question at all, Cirby. That is one description of how we got to the current tax code – but that doesn’t explain why we as a nation somehow can’t afford to give elderly people heating oil for the winter, but we CAN afford to have Exxon pay no taxes at all.

            If the deficit and debt is supposed to be so dangerous, then why is cutting pennies to the poor on the table, but taxing even some of the buckets of gold corporations are getting is not? Not even instead of cutting spending – but in addition to it?

          • Anonymous

            Actually, I did answer your comment, you just don’t seem to understand it.  This is really obvious in your quote below:

            “but that doesn’t explain why we as a nation somehow can’t afford to give
            elderly people heating oil for the winter, but we CAN afford to have
            Exxon pay no taxes at all.

            Aside from the fact that “no taxes at all” is a lie?  And that it’s not the purpose of the US government to give people things at the expense of others?  And that it’s really, REALLY stupid to try and tax corporations that exist mostly overseas, to force them to leave altogether and take the billions they actually already pay with them?  And that the sort of extra taxes you’re calling for (to pay for all of the “free stuff”) would not just cripple the economy, but cause the country to ACTUALLY default sooner than it already will?

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

            I didn’t realize I have to be this specific, but apparently I do.

            First, your previous statement on the tax code had no specific answer to my question. My question was “why can we afford x but not y?”. Your answer was “the tax code is this way.”

            To reiterate, you did not in any way explain why the debt is so dangerous that we must cut funding to elderly people’s heating, but at the same time the debt is NOT so dangerous that we don’t dare close corporate loopholes.

            If I’m wrong and you did at any point answer that question in your response that began “Over the last 40 years….”, then please post that part and I’ll humbly retract this statement.

            Second, your claim that “no taxes at all is a lie”, must hopefully be some kind of accidental misunderstanding on your part. I hope it is.

            Exxon and GE paid no taxes on their PROFITS. They did pay other taxes, sure. If I pay gasoline tax but don’t pay any taxes on my profits of say gambling, can I then legitimately say I paid my taxes? No. Then neither can Exxon and GE.

            Do we have any disagreement at that point? If so, please state what your disagreement there is.

            Third, your statement “it’s not the purpose of the US government” ALSO doesn’t have anything to do with what I’ve said. We’re talking about debts and deficits, right?

            So, once again, if the debt is so dangerous that we must let elderly people go without heat for the winter, why isn’t it also important enough that corporations get to pay taxes on their profits?

            As to your most recent theory that Corporations will go overseas – to where? ALL first-world countries have corporations pay taxes on their profits!!! The US remains among the least regulatory and most business-friendly of all of them.

          • Anonymous

            First, on the “why do we need to cut heating assistance for the elderly,” my reply is “ask Obama, he’s the one who decided to threaten to cut it in order to get people like you to panic.”  Ditto for most of the crap we’ve been hearing – those are Obama threats, not Republican.  If Granny doesn’t get her check next month, impeach Obama for hiring that incompetent moron Geithner.

            “Exxon and GE paid no taxes on their PROFITS.”

            Second, you don’t seem to be able to read.  Part of the reason they pay no taxes is because THEY AREN’T SUPPOSED TO – THE PEOPLE WHO OWN THEM PAY THE TAXES WHEN THEY RECEIVE THE PROFITS.  If the big corporations pay the taxes, the “rich people” (and the many, many groups that actually own most of their stock) would not be paying taxes, since they’re the actual people who get the profits.  If you tried to do both, they’d have a clear (and easily winnable) court case to overturn one of those taxes, since double taxation is illegal.

            As far as the naive “where would the companies go?” question, there are PLENTY of places for them to go – almost all first-world nations have lower corporate income tax rates than the US, and a whole lot of other countries would be happy to have an EXXON or a GE headquartered there.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

            Cirby,

            Once again you are answering different questions than the one I’m asking.

            When you say “my reply is “ask Obama,..” that’s simply not true. Obama is willing to make those cuts. All he is asking for in return for SIGNIFICANT cuts is that the tax loopholes are closed ALSO.

            You see, my question isn’t that it is EITHER the elderly’s benefits go OR the tax loopholes be closed.

            My question is, once again – if the deficit and debt are so frightful that the elderly’s benefits must go, then why can’t these tax loopholes be closed ALSO?

            As for your statement that businesses aren’t supposed to pay taxes on their profits, it is simply not true. Please read this:
            http://www.ctj.org/hid_ent/part-2/part2-3.htm

            “Multinational corporations, whether American- or foreign-owned, are
            supposed to pay taxes on the profits they earn in the United States. In
            addition,American companies and individuals aren’t supposed to gain tax advantages from moving their operations or investments to low-tax offshore “tax havens.” ”

            Your statement that Exxon or GE would move their entire US businesses, personnel and resources overseas rather than pay ANY US tax is simply not credible. That would cost them far more than being taxed at %65.

          • Anonymous

            “Obama is willing to make those cuts.”

            No, he’s not.  He’s using the threat of those cuts (and all of the other “evil” cuts) to try and force the other side to concede the field.  Everything that’s bee leaked (he actually hasn’t released any sort of official budget proposals – he’s letting the fools do the arguing for him so he won’t get caught – again – in a stack of lies).

            If he was willing to make those cuts, he should have done so last year.  You know, when the Democrats were supposed to pass an actual budget.  They failed to do that, which is the ONE job they were supposed to do.  If they had done so then, this argument could have been held while the Democrats were in charge – and when they could take the real heat for their failure.

            As for the rest: an opinion page on a website by a hard-left Democrat think tank isn’t exactly a good source.

            “Your statement that Exxon or GE would move their entire US businesses,
            personnel and resources overseas rather than pay ANY US tax is simply
            not credible.”

            Ignoring, of course, that both of those companies now do the vast majority of their business overseas already, and moving their headquarters to almost any other country would more than pay for the move in just a few years.  The head of Exxon already suggested they might do this, by the way.

          • Anonymous

            How many jobs do you think these corp taxes will create for our poor folks looking for jobs?

          • Anonymous

            Then why didn’t the Dems do it when they had all the power? Why didn’t they do it last year when they were required to do it?

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

            They had a lot of other things on their plate, including health care reform, stimulus spending, financial reform, and others.

            I wish they had. We’ll see what happens in the future. Presuming the GOP back away from dangling our economy off a cliff rather than be reasonable and close the tiniest single tax loophole.

          • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

            Because, as our latest troll demonstrates, they were busy fitting the economy with the greatest (as in most disabling) set of hobbles it has ever known.

          • Anonymous

            It is not a bad idea at all … If you want to continue high unemployment.

    • Anonymous

      Like others have said, CCB is approved by 2/3 of those American people you are talking about. By the way, it’s only those American people who live in Ohio’s 8th District who could vote Boehner “out of a job.” He consistently polls at about 65%, so his job’s safe.

      Thanks for playing, though.

      • http://www.rustedsky.net Anonymous

        Wouldn’t be surprised if he polls above that now…

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

        Source for that poll? The poll I found says that voters want a debt ceiling bill to include tax revenue increases if it contains budget cuts. You can see this linked in both of my previous comments here.

    • retired.military

       Obama is now known as crying john?  When did this happen?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_AXDLBHGWBWIDXWT2LH62AO7I4M Real American

    Another example of how the far right does not care about the will of the American people. The American people are going to vote cryin’ John out of a job for this.

  • Pingback: Brutally Honest

  • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

    Amazing how clueless our leftard trolls are.

    When a poll of all adults (the most favorable to democrats, whereas registered voters favors Republicans) shows support for Cut Cap and Balance running at 2:1 in favor, they have no leg to stand on claiming “…the far right does not care about the will of the American people.”

    • http://www.rustedsky.net Anonymous

      No, but in their ‘reality-based’ thinking, proclaiming something automatically makes it so.  At least… to them.  To anyone else?  For far too long we’ve been polite and quiet about the unworkable ideas of the left.  (I was about to say ‘stupid’, but that’s just unkind.  Unworkable is far more accurate.)

      But we can’t afford their foolish ideas any longer.  They can pay with their own money for their ideals – I’ve got other uses for mine that don’t include them giving it away.

      • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

        JLawson,

        Stupid is as stupid does.  The democrats have been giving stupid a bad name for years.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

      Actually as we now know, the poll you’re citing also has as it’s response to question # 24, that more than 2/3 surveyed also agree with raising taxes. And actually, closer to 3/4 or over.

      So, if you’re interested in actually being accurate, you should include that in your statements. Even though it may be hard on your ego, it is still reality.

      • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/EU5DQWQTTHTPO4A4ZYSL3AAV2U Adjoran

        That was already explained to you, wasn’t it?  Or are you just too thick to understand it?

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

          lol!

          Adjoran, let’s presume that I’m too thick to see this explanation, of how when voters are 3/4 for increasing tax revenues, that somehow means they aren’t.

          Can YOU please, in all humility, explain to me how question # 24 of the CNN poll cited by Rodney DOES NOT say that voters want these increases?

          Here, I’ll even post the link again for you:

          http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2011/images/07/21/rel11b.pdf

          Eagerly awaiting your explanation of this.

        • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

          Thick and unwilling to understand.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Stan25 Stan Brewer

    Blame Boehner refusal on Boooosh

  • Anonymous

    Take Barry’s job and shove it!  Let him change his own damn diaper!

  • Anonymous

    I have written to Mr Boehner through his web page and thanked him for his unwavering position that Americans have been taxed enough. By the way sort of tangential to this but it PO’d me big time that Harry Reid called CCB the worst legislation ever. Having said that after his party crafted ObamaCare. Anyway, I am hoping Mr Boehner can stay the course.

  • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

    I must say that I was pleasantly surprised that:

    1.  Boehner stood his ground.
    2.  He made his case calmly, professionally, and impersonally.

  • Oysteria

    Anyone who thinks higher taxes are going get us out of this mess isn’t thinking clearly.  Just the prospect – the possibility – of higher taxes on what they deem the rich, ie. job creators, has kept the job market at the abysmal low it’s persistently stayed at.  Don’t they understand the uncertainty of higher tases, the uncertainty of Obamacare, the uncertainty of a vast web of regulation coming down the pipe and how it will affect business is a big part of why we’re floundering like we are?

    • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

      The left never allows observable reality to interfere with a “good theory” (where “good theories” are espoused by proper progressives such as Marx).

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

    Here’s hoping that the GOP walks back from holding the economy hostage, and just passes the debt ceiling like was just fine the past 40 times – OR, takes yes for an answer and accepts closing tax loopholes so hedge fund managers don’t tax-deduct their jets.

    Otherwise, the GOP will have broken the recovery and will have no one to blame for themselves. Which will be cold comfort to the jobless the GOP claimed to care about once they were given the Congress, and which the GOP have done just about everything they can to ignore since.

    But hey, at least they stood fast against the horrid scourge of new light bulbs.

    Oy.

    • Anonymous

      Barry’s culpability is what’s at stake here.  2 1/2 years of  ‘I Won’,  takeovers by strong arm of private company’s and thus citizens.  Barry’s culpable. Nancy and Harry to a lesser degree. He had his way and things have only gotten way worse.

      Barry’s culpable..

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

        You can keep repeating “Barrys’ culpable” like it’s some sort of magic incantation, but it still won’t change the reality before us.

        In addition to the cuts the GOP wanted, Obama offered the GOP cuts to Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid which would have significantly angered his **own party** at him, and which the GOP has been drooling over for decades. But rather than even think of tightening loopholes on hedge fund managers and corporations which are somehow managing to pay ZERO taxes – the GOP is choosing to risk nuking the economy instead.

        So, if you hate Obama so much, you should be mad at Boehner – because he just helped Obama clinch a second term. Because the American people can clearly see which side is being a grownup, and which side is responding with a tantrum.

        • Anonymous

          ” Because the American people can clearly see which side is being a grownup, and which side is responding with a tantrum.”
          Being grown up is being able to admit you are wrong. I see nothing of the sort from the jobs loser in chief.  

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

            “Being grown up is being able to admit you are wrong. I see nothing of the sort from the jobs loser in chief.”

            It’s true. Bush never admitted once that he did anything wrong. He even stumbled when asked the question. But back to Obama.

          • Anonymous

            I see comprehension is tough for you. Perhaps affirmative action may help you with that.

          • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

            Affirmative action is a negative reaction that produces unqualified pedantic pedagogues while devaluing the credentials and qualifications it gives away.

            Come to think of it, our serial propagandist undoubtedly is a product thereof.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

            Our serial propagandist being you? Since you are the one unable to admit being in error.

            Now, I grant that it is embarassing that you were proven wrong by the very poll you cited. However, you really should try admitting you were wrong. I mean, after all, you’re not fooling anybody. We all know it. Including you.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

            I see admitting that anyone you like can ever be wrong is pretty impossible for you. Perhaps the likely economic destruction that may occur from Boehner being unable to accept “Yes” for an answer will help you with that.

            I like to hold out hope.

          • Anonymous

            Not likely cool-aid consumer. Bush was wrong on Amnesty. Bush was wrong on a lot of things but that’s life.  Why should any of the GOP bend over backwards to help ‘I won’ out? I mean, they can if they want, but it would be rather stupid.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

            Why should they? Oh, I don’t know – to benefit the country or something? Just a thought.

            But hey, no worries. The GOP are being given enough rope  – they can either help pull America out of the ditch the GOP drove it into, or they can use it to hang themselves. Their option.

          • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves
        • Anonymous

          “In addition to the cuts the GOP wanted, Obama offered the GOP cuts to Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid which would have significantly angered his **own party** at him, and which the GOP has been drooling over for decades.”

          I would like to know more about these cuts to SS and M & M the President offered.  First, I would want to make sure that they are guaranteed.  Not some “promise” to fashion legislation later on these matters.  I think we can all agree he is a rather mendacious sort. As far as cuts to Medicare specifically, he already (I believe) is using cuts in Medicare to pay for ObamaCare. If his ultimate goal is to do away with Medicare completely so that ObamaCare is the healthcare program of the land then I am not impressed by his “generosity”.  I am not even sure Reid and Pelosi aren’t putting on some act pretending to be pissed off at him for selling out to the Republicans. I am sure they have some clever plan to renege on these promises in the future.  Sorry, after the ObamaCare performance I do not trust them at all.  If Boehner’s position helped clinch Barry’s second term then I chalk it up to the stupidity of the American people.  I appreciate Boehner standing on principle.  

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

            “I would like to know more about these cuts to SS and M & M the President offered. ”

            Sure, here you go:

            http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/in-debt-talks-obama-offers-social-security-cuts/2011/07/06/gIQA2sFO1H_story.html

            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/11/obama-medicare-eligibility-age_n_894833.html

            Note that to confirm that these were serious offers, then all the GOP would have to do is demand them in writing with preconditions that the President would sign off on.

            Instead, Boehner left the building.

          • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/YSM6XGIY2CLRQKYDB746ZVVUUI Texas Accountant

            Mr. B,

            I followed your link and I find an alleged offer to cut SS and M & M, but no actual details of the plan.  Do you have a link that states what specifically the President is going to cut?  Or do you think that this is “hot air,” like I do?

          • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

            Ever since the 80′s the democrats have been promising spending cuts later for a tax increase today, with the spending cuts never eventuating.

            Frankly, we should turn that table on them now.

            Current cuts in actual spending NOW with tax increases promised for the out years.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

            Mr. Texas Accountant,

            If you’re asking for official transcripts of offers made in meetings that were conducted behind closed doors without reporters, of course I don’t have those.

            Do you have any links from those directly involved, stating that those offers are untrue? If so, please post them.

            Otherwise, you can choose to believe or disbelieve whatever you want, of course. But Obama clearly has nothing to gain from releasing information like this, only to personally renege on it later. That earns him the love of no one.

        • Oysteria

          “But rather than even think of tightening loopholes on hedge fund managers and corporations which are somehow managing to pay ZERO taxes – the GOP is choosing to risk nuking the economy instead.”

          I call bullshit.  I love it when words like “hedge fund managers” and “corporations” are used like pejoratives all the while ignoring the fact that the vast majority of people affected by losing deductions aren’t hedge fund managers nor are they the big evil corporations Obama likes to conjure up when he gets on a tear.

          They’re largely small and medium business.  Some so small as a mere family business with under 20 employees.  But we need to soak ‘em and soak’ em good!  Because they’re paying “ZERO taxes!”

          I got news for you, the economy is already nuked.  It’s glowing and it’s about to blow and all Obama can think of is doing the one thing that has only exacerbated the situation by just threat – higher taxes.

          For God’s sake, one small section of Obama care has already begat 400 more pages of regulations, and they’ve ony just begun.

          Tax and regulate is all he knows.  Rule absolutely leaving no stone unturned.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

            On what are you calling bullshit?

            Obama proposed exactly what I said – and was shot down.

            What are you disagreeing with?

        • Anonymous

          “Obama offered the GOP cuts to Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid
          which would have significantly angered his **own party** at him”

          Oh, and just where was this written down?

          Every time Barry opens his mouth he rants about the GOP wanting to cut SS, Medicare and Medicaid.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

            here, if facts matter:

            http://www.washingtonpost.com/

            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/

            Note
            that to confirm that these were serious offers, then all the GOP would
            have to do is demand them in writing with preconditions that the
            President would sign off on.

          • Anonymous

            Obama’s promises are as worthless as his job performance. 

          • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

            0bama promises are to facts as gang rape is to consensual sex.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

            Your view of Obama is to facts like a crazy altered view of reality is to facts.

          • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

            Going around with your head up the unicorn’s @$$ is no way to go through life, bang.

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

            Whatever, 914. Obama could say the sun will set and you’d suspect a conspiracy to sell new-fangled light bulbs.

          • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

            If 0bama claimed the world was ending tonight, only the unicorn fart squad would pay him any attention.  Everyone else has been burned too often to pay any attention.

          • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

            A partial list (complete through the end of March, 2010) of Obama Promises and their Expiration dates.

          • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/YSM6XGIY2CLRQKYDB746ZVVUUI Texas Accountant

            Mr. B,

            You mean like the President is demanding congress to come up with specifics in writing with preconditions?

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

            You mean as part of a separate negotiation?

            If you have some specifics for this, I’d like to see it.

          • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

            GarandFan,

            Indeed.  Until there is a proposal from 0bama which the CBO can score, calling his proposals BS is an insult to bulls and their scat everywhere.

          • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

            GarandFan,

            Indeed, the average democrat‘s word is worth the paper it’s printed on.

      • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

        914,

        Given that Pelosi and Reid controlled the Congress from 2007-2010, they own the whole meltdown.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

          You can keep repeating that as a magic incantation, but that doesn’t change reality either. The voters know different. And if Boehner succeeds in taking our economy with this inability to say yes, then you’d better believe the voters will know who to blame.

          Not that the resulting economic devastation will be worth it. Which is why the GOP’s inability to cut a deal is even more baffling.

          I am stating think that if Obama proposed that kittens shouldn’t be eaten, the GOP would start creating tax breaks for kitten farms.

      • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

        ‘Twas Barry, Nancy, and Harry who killed the recovery.

        • Anonymous

          Beauty was rightfully omitted during production.

    • Anonymous

      Wow. Visiting this website for the first time and seeing your comments. The work of someone with intelligence and complete ignorance.

      Since you are so focused on polls, would you agree that obamacare should be repealed?

  • http://2011.ak4mc.us/ McGehee

    Perhaps Boehner has figured out that the converse to a famous Reagan saying is, “You can also get a lot done if you don’t care who gets the blame.”

    No matter what gets done now, there will have to be a reckoning. Everyone involved, Democrats and Republicans, will be better off if they sack up, take their medicine, and cut spending now. If there are to be tax hikes, the time for those is years down the road.

    • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

      McGeehe,

      Democrats?  Sack up? 

      Shortly after hell freezes over.

  • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

    In some proposals, Congress would raise the debt ceiling while cutting between two trillion and
    four trillion dollars in government spending over the next ten years and raising taxes on some
    businesses and higher-income Americans. Would you favor or oppose this proposal? (“Grand Compromise”)
    July 18-20
    2011
    Favor 66%
    Oppose 34%
    No opinion 1%

    In another proposal, Congress would give President Obama the ability to raise the debt ceiling
    several times in the next 18 months while cutting a smaller amount in government spending and not
    raising taxes at all. Would you favor or oppose this proposal? (McConnel “plan”)
    July 18-20
    2011
    Favor 34%
    Oppose 65%
    No opinion 1%

    In another proposal, Congress would raise the debt ceiling only if a balanced budget amendment
    were passed by both houses of Congress and substantial spending cuts and caps on future spending
    were approved. Would you favor or oppose this proposal? (Cut, Cap, Balance)
    July 18-20
    2011
    Favor 66%
    Oppose 33%
    No opinion 1%

    Would you favor or oppose a constitutional amendment to require a balanced federal budget?
    July 18-20
    2011
    Favor 74%
    Oppose 24%
    No opinion 1%

    In order to get the federal budget deficit under control, do you think it is necessary or not necessary to
    pass a Constitutional amendment requiring a balanced federal budget?
    July 18-20
    2011
    Necessary 60%
    Not necessary 38%
    No opinion 1%

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

      Say, Rodney, what was that first question again? I’ll point it out and bold the relevant answer for you:

      In some proposals, Congress would raise the debt ceiling while cutting between two trillion and
      four trillion dollars in government spending over the next ten years and raising taxes on some
      businesses and higher-income Americans. Would you favor or oppose this proposal?
      (“Grand Compromise”)
      July 18-20
      2011
      Favor 66%
      Oppose 34%
      No opinion 1%

  • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

    Say, ! What were the other questions (and their answers) again?

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

      They’re right above. Not one of them proves me wrong, by the way.

      • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

        Right…

        In another proposal, Congress would raise the debt ceiling only if a balanced budget amendment were passed by both houses of Congress and substantial spending cuts and caps on future spending were approved. Would you favor or oppose this proposal? (Cut, Cap, Balance)
        July 18-20
        2011
        Favor 66%
        Oppose 33%
        No opinion 1%

        Cut, Cap, and Balance supported by 2/3rds of respondents…

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

          Rodney, please explain to me how that shows that the voters did NOT desire a tax revenue increase also.

          Seriously, please let me know what you’re thinking, and how that refutes my position. I honestly don’t understand.

  • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

    Hey, !, don’t feel too bad.  Your source of unicorn farts leads by four whole points for re-election…

    Against luaP noR.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

      I feel great. Your score of complete inability to address being proven wrong has me leading by 10 points.

      • Anonymous

        When did that happen?

        • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

          Some other time in an alternate reality?

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

            No, this on one this page. You know, the part that you keep avoiding, where I proved you wrong about voters wanting tax revenue increases with a quote from the poll YOU CITED.

            It’s up a bit.

            Interesting that you don’t even remember it, and it’s in this very thread. Pretty characteristic of denial. Just surprising how blatant it is.

          • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

            My claim was that the poll of all adults (which favors democrats
            whereas polls of registered voters favors Republicans) showed support
            for Cut, Cap, and Balance running at 2:1 in favor. And sure enough:

            In another proposal, Congress would raise the debt ceiling only if a balanced budget amendmentwere passed by both houses of Congress and substantial spending cuts and caps on future spendingwere approved. Would you favor or oppose this proposal? (Cut, Cap, Balance)July 18-202011Favor 66%Oppose 33%No opinion 1%

            66% : 33% as 2 : 1

            Were it not for innumeracy there would be no democrats.

          • Frank O’Connell

            lol…

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

          Look upward in this thread, where I show from Rodney’s own poll that 3/4 of voters want a tax revenue increase as part of this deal.

          you know, the part that Rodney keeps avoiding.

          • Anonymous

            So since Boehner proposed 800b in new taxes, seems like you agree with the Republican proposal, as do the American people. Primarily:

            - massive cuts in spending equal to the amount of the debt increase
            - 800b in rev increase over 10 years (matches your insistence on polling words)
            - agreement to pas the BBA that an overwhelming majority also agree with

            Given that you are so focused on polls, we will also repels obamacare.

            We good?

          • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

            Repeal Obamacare and then repeal Obama.

  • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

    Though come to think of it, bang should change its avatar to splat.

  • Anonymous

    “Another example of how the far right does not care about the will of the American people. The American people are going to vote cryin’ John out of a job for this.

    Frank O’Connell and 3 more like  this”

    Proof positive that no matter the level  of stupidity exhibited in the  White House… There are even stoopider fools willing to pull the lever for a double dumbing down!!

    lol,  you cool laden clowns..

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_425GVKQCLFZMQYYENR7CJBRDVA jb

      lol.

      Yes, we are indeed laden with cool. It’s a tough burden, but one we manage because we are that cool.

      • Frank O’Connell

         Inbred mouth breathers with a pack mentality. No wonder they like Sarah Palin.

  • Anonymous

    “Another example of how the far right does not care about the will of the American people. The American people are going to vote cryin’ John out of a job for this.

    Frank O’Connell and 3 more like  this”

    Proof positive that no matter the level  of stupidity exhibited in the  White House… There are even stoopider fools willing to pull the lever for a double dumbing down!!

    lol,  you cool laden clowns..

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/EU5DQWQTTHTPO4A4ZYSL3AAV2U Adjoran

    Obama acted like a four year old throwing a tantrum today.  It is evident his toadies take their cues from the Big Comrade.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_UG44B3BSUSA2IKDMLCB2AMJ4OM Porkulus Chopius

    I am so impressed. The freshmen tea party congresspeople must be putting incredible pressure on him. This cat could have caved like other RINO’s before him but so far so good. Shove that spending and debt up Obama’s ass so far until it comes out of his throat.

    Winning.

  • Anonymous

    I can’t see any democrats arguments as having any worth at all. Every post seems so hypocritical when the democrats failed to do their job and pass a budget last year. 
    They could have passed whatever they wanted and raised revenues(tax) all the rich people they wanted. Every point they have made in the last several months could have been easily passed last year,but they did not. 
    Why were they scared then? Why is it now, when there is this big crisis of their own making, that they have all the answers? Obama is strutting around like a proud peacock now in his faux outrage at the republicans when he should have leading last year. Democrats can(and will) blame everyone else for our economy,but this situation right now belongs solely to them. They should be fined for every day they have no budget passed from Oct first of last year. 

    • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

      Digg34 wrote:

      I can’t see any democrats arguments as having any worth at all. Every
      post seems so hypocritical when the democrats failed to do their job and
      pass a budget last year.

      It’s worse than that.  For the two years of the 111th Congress (a wholly owned production of the Democratic Party) there was no Budget proposed, let alone acted on, at all.  The Democratic Senate of the 112th Congress has not voted on two separate budgets passed by the House, though they did have the good sense to vote down 0bama’s budget proposal 97-0.

  • Anonymous

    I can’t see any democrats arguments as having any worth at all. Every post seems so hypocritical when the democrats failed to do their job and pass a budget last year. 
    They could have passed whatever they wanted and raised revenues(tax) all the rich people they wanted. Every point they have made in the last several months could have been easily passed last year,but they did not. 
    Why were they scared then? Why is it now, when there is this big crisis of their own making, that they have all the answers? Obama is strutting around like a proud peacock now in his faux outrage at the republicans when he should have leading last year. Democrats can(and will) blame everyone else for our economy,but this situation right now belongs solely to them. They should be fined for every day they have no budget passed from Oct first of last year. 

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/EU5DQWQTTHTPO4A4ZYSL3AAV2U Adjoran

    If the public is so enamored of tax increases as part of the deal, why is Obama afraid to put forth a specific plan which shows them?

    Boehner already agreed to an overhaul eliminating deductions and broadening the tax base while lowering rates, which would generate $800 billion in additional revenue over the budget window without “raising taxes” by rate.  Obama was on board until the diehard leftist groups which are determined to destroy America at any cost got on the phones.

    Let the little trolls have their talking points based on vague poll questions that don’t provide alternatives.  We know President Crybaby Otantrum won’t lay out a plan, because he’s not a leader, just an empty suit.

  • Anonymous

    It’s unbelieveable to me that the liberals here think there is no down side to raising taxes on corporations and other businesses while we have 9.2% unemployment. Riddle me this how many new jobs do you feel these tax increases will create.

  • http://metanoodle.blogspot.com Ken Moore

    Note comment now reported at Politico, Boehner speaking to Obama:   “Congress makes the laws and you get to decide what you want to sign”.

    • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

      Saw that, chuckled.  Lame Duck indeed.

  • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves
  • http://profiles.google.com/ozcar.da.grouch Ozcar Grouch

    Even the leftist drivel jb links says:  “67% of Voters Say A Debt Ceiling Deal Should Include Tax Hikes On The Rich”.  Not “…want a tax increase ALSO”.

    But, those who think they should pay more, are always free
    to simple give as much of their income to the IRS as desired.  There is a link, I just don’t care enough to look for it; those who are interested should have no difficulty finding said link and instructions for submitting any or all their excess cash to our dear and fluffy .gov.  I don’t plan to hold my breath until this start to happen, though.

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