Good Riddance

When I wake up in the morning, usually the first thing I do is smack on my radio, turned to the local talk station. And this morning, I woke up with a smile at the good news — American-born (and citizen) Anwar Al-Awlaki, one of Al Qaeda’s top leaders, was killed in Yemen.

 

Details are sketchy — as are the sources — but apparently he and some of his buddies were in eastern Yemen when they were suddenly afflicted by fatal cases of “getting blowed up from above.”

 

As cheerful as this news is, I still have some trepidations. The first is, as a long-time comic book reader, I believe very much in the “Never Found The Body” trope. Until we get a corpse that we can positively identify, I ain’t buying it.

 

And this good news also resolves a very tricky legal situation. President Obama had issued a “kill order” on Al-Awlaki, meaning that there were to be no real efforts to capture him; it was essentially a “shoot on sight” order. And Al-Awlaki was an American citizen — born in the US, never renounced his citizenship. I find it deeply troubling that the President of the United States would order the summary execution of an American citizen who had never been convicted of a single crime.

 

Yeah, it’s Anwar Al-Awlaki. Had he been killed by US forces (and he very well might have been), I wouldn’t have a twinge of regret over his passing. But damn, that’s a troubling precedent. I really don’t care for the idea of the President of the United States — especially this one — having the authority to order the killing of American citizens.

 

There’s a saying among lawyers that “tough cases make for bad laws.” And this shows how true that is. If anyone deserved to get blowed to bits, it was this guy. But I worry about the precedent it sets.

Yay For Bank of America!
Anwar al-Awlaki killed by drone attack in Yemen
  • herddog505

    What?  Eric Holder didn’t send some doughty US marshalls to find, arrest, mirandize, and extradite this fellow to NYC so that he could be given a trial in a federal court?  Surely you are misinformed, because – as we all know – the devotion of ALL members of the Obama regime to protecting the constitutional rights of ALL people (American or foreign) is unshakable.  UNSHAKABLE, I say.  That’s why they closed Gitmo minutes after Barry was sworn in.

    / sarc

    I shall not lose any sleep over al-Awlaki shuffling off… er… being blasted off… this mortal coil, but I agree with Jay Tea: the precedent that the president or ANY US official can order a US citizen to be “shot on sight” is pretty troubling.

    Imagine if Bush had done it…

    IF we are going to go down this road, then the Congress needs to do its job and establish pertinent laws, which ought to include some sort of legal process for getting a lawful order to do this.  Perhaps a trial in absentia is called for (though how that would square with the V and VI Amendments I can’t imagine).  At any rate, something needs to be done both to guard against abuse of this stunning authority and to prevent politically-motivated retribution against the men who carry out the orders such as we saw against DoD officials and CIA officers after Barry and his gang took over.

  • Anonymous

    Anybody ever say anything about what this guy actually did?  The radio said he was a “charismatic preacher” who “met” some bad guys from 9/11 sometime before 9/11 and swapped emails with Maj. Hasan.  Was he, like, a mind-controller or something?

    Anyways, the President said that U.S. citizen deserved to die, and he’s got an Arab name, so that should be good enough for all of us, right?  We don’t need no stinkin’ due process.

    • Anonymous

      Follow the links, CC

    • Anonymous

      Spare the bomb, spoil the fool

    • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/EU5DQWQTTHTPO4A4ZYSL3AAV2U Adjoran

      Please accept my condolences upon the passing of your beloved friend.

  • Pingback: Al Qaeda Terrorist Cleric Anwar al-Awlaki Dead … Confirmed, the ‘FACEBOOK FRIEND FROM HELL’ Killed in Yemen | Scared Monkeys

  • http://otisthehand.blogspot.com/ OTIS the hand

    “I find it deeply troubling that the President of the United States would order the summary execution of an American citizen who had never been convicted of a single crime.”

    We’ll have to agree to disagree. If you travel to a foreign land and join hostile forces to take up arms against your own country, prepare to die. That’s one precedent that does not bother me in the least. I don’t know much about the legal ambiguity but the moral clarity of the act is clear.

    Leftists, including Chico, were furiously hand-wringing over the mere detention of such people by the military. I wonder how they’ll reconcile this. My guess is total silence.

    • Anonymous

      Funny that I’ve never seen any story about the guy “taking up arms” against the USA.  He was in Yemen, how could he “take up arms” against the USA?

      Oh, he said stuff about the USA, did he?  Well, that’s good enough, First and Fifth Amendments be damned.
       

      • http://otisthehand.blogspot.com/ OTIS the hand

        Do the words “al Queda leader” mean anything to you?

        Why is Charles Manson in jail?

        • Anonymous

          You’re awfully trusting of the government.

          Charles Manson is in jail because was convicted by a jury of his peers after a public presentation of the evidence against him at a trial according to law.  I know, a quaint idea.

          Shit, I could call you an “Al Qaeda leader” if I had the right job in the USG.
           

          • Anonymous

            Let me take a brief moment away from the traditional Chico bashing to single him out for praise: he’s a hell of a lot more consistent in his principles than a lot of others — on both sides.

            He’s wrong, but he’s principled.

            J.

          • Anonymous

            The only flaw is that he’s defending a person who advocated the death and destruction of Americans by other radicalized Islamofacist Americans.

          • http://otisthehand.blogspot.com/ OTIS the hand

            I don’t trust the government at all. The government is your god, not mine. I trust my five senses. You have to retreat to some kind of fantasy world where Awlaki is really the Will Smith character from Enemy of the State and the government is his omniscient, hyper-competent puppet master. I see him for what he is.

          • Anonymous

            I don’t grant the government the power to kill as easily as you do, so it seems the government would be even more of a god to you.  Also, since you take the government’s claims on faith, as infallible, you are kneeling at their altar. Five senses? You have personal knowledge? Riiight.

            We’ve already seen how a lot of the claims of how bad some of these AQ guys were turned out not to be true, see the stories about the book by retired CIA officer Glenn Carle for examples.
            http://glenncarle.com/

            I’ll give JayTea and others credit for being troubled by this. Other questions – WTF are we doing in Yemen? Why do we have to have a boogyman of the month? – remain to be asked.

          • http://otisthehand.blogspot.com/ OTIS the hand

            Chico. Chico. Chico. Really. For that matter, how do you know Awlaki existed at all? How do you know bin Ladin existed? Did you personally meet them? Perhaps the hyper-competent government created both of them to fuel its nefarious agenda. Any other realities you would like to imagine into existence?

          • Anonymous

            Well, at least my “reality” is not “whatever the government tells me it is.”
             
            What I say is, scratch a lot of self-styled “libertarians,” find a brownshirt. At least when it comes to killing brown people.

          • http://otisthehand.blogspot.com/ OTIS the hand

            “Well, at least my “reality” is not “whatever the government tells me it is.””

            Get real. You know better than that. You either dispute the facts or you don’t. So far, you haven’t even touched on the reality of who Awlaki is and what he did. He made himself a chief commander and strategist of enemy forces against whom we are waging war. Accepting that as reality hardly means believing “whatever the government tells me.” I live in this universe, not a parallel one.

          • Anonymous

            Everything you say is a government claim.  And the government lies.  Ask Pat Tillman’s family and Jessica Lynch.
             

          • http://otisthehand.blogspot.com/ OTIS the hand

            I haven’t really said anything except that he traveled overseas and became an al Queda leader. Yes, the government lies. That does not mean that everything the government says is a lie. It doesn’t mean they faked the moon landing or staged 9/11. Discernment is in order. The truth about Tillman and Lynch is relatively well known and I do not think the facts are in dispute. It didn’t take long to come out and, unless I am mistaken, the government itself fessed up to the truth pretty quickly.

          • Anonymous

             Why are we using drones in Yemen? Why did Willie Sutton (apocryphally) rob banks?

            ‘Cuz that’s where the bad guys are.

            (I don’t think it’s a coincidence that “Yemen” is an anagram for “Enemy.”)

            J.

          • Anonymous

            What are they going to do from Yemen?  That place is two years out of the Iron Age.  Sounds like a good place for them.  

          • Anonymous

            Yeah, Yemen is pretty wretched. Kinda reminds me of… say, Afghanistan, circa 2000.

            J.

          • Anonymous

            Of course he could not cause any damage from Yemen.  I mean just because 9/11 was planned in Afghanistan (12 minutes on the good side of the stone age) and the US Embassy bombing were planned from Somolia (AK-47 age for at least 23 years running), is no reason to suspect that damage could be done from Yemen.

            I have many reservations about the targetted killing of an American citizen by our government, but the idea that this particular individual could do no damage from Yemen is not among them.

          • Anonymous

            Or because his johnson got in the way of his med pass.

      • herddog505

        I agree.  What, exactly, DID he do to warrant death?  The Beeb reports:

        He had played a “significant operational role in the Christmas 2009 Detroit airline bomb attempt, said officials, and in the plot which sent two bombs in printer cartridges on US-bound cargo planes in 2010. They were intercepted in the UK and Dubai.

        Awalaki has been implicated in the 2009 US army base killings in Fort Hood, Texas, and a failed bombing in New York’s Times Square in 2010.

        What constitutes a “significant operational role”?  Been “implicated” by whom and on what evidence?

        It appears that this guy was unquestionable a nogoodnik, and the world is probably a better place without him.  However, to kill an American citizen, I’d really like some more due process than “unnamed US government officials say he’s a bad guy.”

        • Anonymous

          Exactly, nobody will go on record with details.  There’s always stuff that can be said without revealing sources and methods.
           

  • Anonymous

    C’mon guys, this was collateral damage.  They were really going after the Expeditions ’cause they weren’t driving Suburbans.

    • Anonymous

      Please, Doc. You’re spreading scurrilous, unfounded, and evil insinuations.

      They were going after the Expeditions because they’re big, carbon-belching SUVs. If they’d been in Chevy Volts, they’d have been spared.

      J.

  • Anonymous

    I’m not an attorney, never was an attorney and never played on tv, but this doesn’t seem all that different from the treatment afforded some of our gangsters back in the early part of the 20th century, by duly sworn federal agents.

    I hope he is dead, by whatever means. God can see to the rest of it.

  • Anonymous

    “I find it deeply troubling that the President of the United States
    would order the summary execution of an American citizen who had never
    been convicted of a single crime.”

    “Troubling”, yes.  Am I going to lose any sleep over it?  No. 

  • Anonymous

    Yep that damn cowboy Bush…. I mean Obama just killing off Americans like this, Chico you better make sure you vote for him maybe twice. Seriously Chico you are as critical of Obama as anyone here, but you still will insist he’s better than the alternative. I don’t see how that’s any longer possible. By most any measure (economy, war on terror, drone strikes, you name it) he’s worse than Bush how could someone else, anyone else not be better?

    • Anonymous

      Amen!

      You are right! Chico is critical of Obama. I don’t know what the hang-up is? I find lots of faults with all political figures but overlook them. They never happened. Accept with the current one because it effects my childrens future so heavily.  Political ife is about power, control, or the lack there of in letting someone dictate it to us as individuals. 

      Chico is very elaborate and intelligent, but lacks a window to the soul;.. There is a 4th and 2000th dimension.

      • Anonymous

        The thing is to stop trying to run the world, stop exporting jobs, and have a safe country for your children.
         

        • http://2011.ak4mc.us/ McGehee

          The thing is to stop trying to run the country and stick to running one branch of one level of government.

          But when you have somebody who thinks he really can run the entire country, running the world is simply a question of scale.

    • Anonymous

      I am not voting for Obama next year.  The problem is that the alternatives talk like they are worse warmongers and fascists. Except for Ron Paul and Gary Johnson, who I would vote for in a heartbeat.

      I am open to Christie and listening to Perry. Who knows what Romney believes?

      • Anonymous

        I don’t see it Chico, I mean  look at Bush, he at least gave the cowards in congress a chance to vote no on Iraq which is more than you can say for Obama. I think you are going to throw your vote away if you hold out for Ron Paul or Gary Johnson, I know I’ve thrown some away. It’s a sad state but none the less true that sometimes you have to hold your nose and vote for the lesser of 2 evils. Clearly I respect your choice I just think your protest vote will be wasted or worse contribute to a result that will not be to your liking.

        • Anonymous

          It’s a long way to November 2012.   Things on Wall Street and elsewhere may change the world before then.

          • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/EU5DQWQTTHTPO4A4ZYSL3AAV2U Adjoran

            Yup.  The climate will change, too.

  • Anonymous

    I don’t know how much evidence you need to have before you say “yeah,this guy is a traitor”. The guy used the internet and made videos galore about attacking us. Inciting violence and causing harm to the US.  Do you really have to have a trial in this case? Honestly?

    • Anonymous

      Yeah, we can’t allow Americans to make videos criticizing the USA, because we’re free.

      • Anonymous

        Okay…so I didn’t mention the whole leader of Alky groups in Yemen,and all the connections to terrorist radical islamists,and his connections to all the attacks,the people who did attack or try who seem all seem to just love that guy. Add all that to his internet and videos. It was not like he was trying to really hide these last few years.

      • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/EU5DQWQTTHTPO4A4ZYSL3AAV2U Adjoran

        Inciting and helping to plan murder is pretty harsh criticism, don’t you think?  The guy joined the other side in a martial conflict.  Due process doesn’t apply to him any more than it applied to the many thousands of Southerners summarily executed for aiding insurrection in the Civil War (the USA never recognized them as anything but citizens of the USA).

    • herddog505

      The same made be said about Fat Mikey.  I don’t support blowing him up with a Hellfire, either.

      • Anonymous

        I have no idea who Fat Mikey is,but I did know who Anwar was and am pretty happy about the hellfire dropping in on him.

        • herddog505

          Fat Mikey = Michael Moore.

          As I wrote above, I’m not losing any sleep over this guy doing some live testing of the Hellfire missile for us.  What does bother me is the want of due process.  He was an American citizen who was killed without trial or even official indictment by the US government.  That’s quite a dangerous precedent.

          Perhaps Barry or some future president could decide that John Doe, accused by unnamed US officials of “conspiring to commit a bad thing and associating with other bad people and being involved with other bad things”, can be gunned down by the FBI on sight.  Or maybe he could get the BATF to claim that the John Doe in question is stockpiling arms and ammo, then send in a tank to burn his house to the ground along with everybody in it.

          Oh, wait…

  • Anonymous

    Good riddance.  Apparently two more a$$holes gone.  World’s a cleaner place.

    • Anonymous

      You mean, racialpants got his pink slip?

      • Anonymous

        I’m counting Sammy also – now they be butt-hole buddies in paradise.

  • Ken in Camarillo

    It is incorrect to think of the departed as a US Citizen. He voluntarily joined and participated in a foreign force that was at war with the US. This causes forfeiture of citizenship. The total significance of the kill is that “a combatant hostile to the US was killed in a military operation.”
    Link:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nishikawa_v._Dulles

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