In Tulsa, two white men arrested for murders of African-Americans.

This is not good. From

Two arrests have been made in the North Tulsa  shootings that left three African American men dead, FOX23 reports.

Cops apprehended two white males — 19-year-old Jake  England and Alvin Watts, 32 — at 1:47 a.m. local time, KOKI reported.

They will be charged with three counts of murder and  two counts of shooting with intent to kill.

A story says this about suspect Jake England:

On Friday around 10pm, England posted on Facebook: “Chilling at that house people talking s*** on me for some s*** I didn’t do lil man and cady I__’s here I do believer it just mite be the time to call it quits I I hate to say it like that but I’m done if something does happen tonite be ready for another funeral later”

Late Friday England posted to Facebook: “Woke up late bout to head my a** to work get everything off my mind.” Last Thursday around 3pm, England posted, “Today is two years that my dad has been gone shot by a f****** n***** it’s hard not to go off between that and s—- I’m gone in the head.            RIP .             Dad and s____ I .              Love and miss u I think about both of u every second of the day”

A check of FOX23 archives shows a Carl England was shot and killed in April of 2010 at Comanche Park apartments.  A person of interest was Pernell Jefferson, later arrested in connection with England’s death.

Comanche Park is a government-owned apartment complex. The majority of its residents are African-American.

Can anyone guess how race hustlers are going to respond to this story?

Weekend Caption Contest™ Winners
Obama Administration: "Bush did it, too!"
  • I am glad they have been caught and if guilty they should be executed.  No one should have to live in fear.  Our leaders need to speak out to calm tensions rather than trying to widen the divide to gain votes.  Those who profit from stirring up small minded individuals need to be held accountable.  Sad times in America.

  • jim_m

    Yes he uses racial language but this sounds more like it is a revenge killing than anything else.  The problem unfortunately is that those killed probably had nothing to do with his father’s death.

    • Tater_Salad

       Apologizing for racist’s actions already. No surprise there.

      “Yes he uses racial language but this sounds more like it is a revenge killing than anything else.”

      Naw, he’s not a racist, he just killed 5 black  people at random.

      • jim_m

         Um.  Once again, read the article (really, if you aren’t going to read the articles there isn’t any purpose in posting).  It is clear and virtually everyone has agreed, that the reason this guy went on his rampage was that he was seeking revenge for his father’s death.  Is it racist to admit that fact?  Was it racist to admit that he used racist language but appeared motivated by revenge?  If it was merely racism he would never have mentioned his dad.

        Seriously.  I don’t make excuses for the guy and you can read my remarks elsewhere on this thread and I don’t think anyone will characterize them as apologizing for his actions.

        Stop being a bigot.

  • Commander_Chico

    Can anyone guess how race hustlers are going to respond to this story?
    In a country of 300 million that is one-half retard insane asylum, where there seem to be school shootings and multiple murders every week, this is not exactly big news, in my opinion. 

    From the Facebook postings, it is clear that Jake is no genius.  To think that Facebook was once limited to Harvard College students.

    But you’re not a “race hustler” if you object to white guys randomly shooting black guys, or vice-versa.

    (Edit) from the mugshot released of Jake, he looks part Asian.

    • jim_m

       Most people (Including myself , and I suspect you as well) object to anyone going around randomly shooting anyone else regardless of race. 

      • Commander_Chico

        Yeah, but at what point do you become a “race hustler” for objecting “too much?”   What is a “race hustler?”

        • jim_m

           I suppose that a race hustler would be defined as one who leaps upon incidents seeking to exploit a racial component in order to achieve personal gain. Jackson and Sharpton meet such a definition.

          One can address racial issues without increasing racial tensions and animosity.  Jackson and Sharpton do not. 

          One issue I take with them and others who seek to focus on issues such as this one and Trayvon Martin is that they rarely, if ever, express any concern over the vastly larger numbers of black men murdered by other blacks.  Many times more are murdered by members of their own race.  objecting to Trayvon Martin creates the impression (correctly I believe) that to these people murdering a black man is only wrong when done by someone non-black.

          • Commander_Chico

            I suppose Sharpton would be the example, he was even supposed to have been the inspiration for the ultimate “race hustler” in fiction, the Reverend Bacon in The Bonfire of the Vanities but I still can’t discount the possibility that he believed in what he was doing, for example believed Tawana Brawley.

            In any event, Sharpton and Jackson have toned down a lot over the last 20 years.  They are part of the 1% now.

          • jim_m

             There are too many instances for me to think that Sharpton didn’t know that he was doing wrong.

            It’s not just Tawana Brawley, It’s things like Freddie’s Fashion Mart.  He has a habit of inserting himself into situations and inflaming racial tensions.

          • Commander_Chico

            Bullshit artists and rabble rousers do well in America, especially if they have “Reverend” in front of their name.  Obviously not just the black ones.

      • Tater_Salad

         And yet we’ll no doubt hear from right wing America that Victim #2 smoked marijuana in high school, and therefore deserved to die.

        And we’ll no doubt hear from right wing America that Victim #5 was on welfare for 4 years and therefore deserved to die.

        And we’ll no doubt hear from right wing America that the second cousin twice removed of Victim #3 was found guilty of black-on-back crime and therefore deserved to die.

        Cause that’s the way racist roll in right wing America. They find reasons to defend murderers if they kill black or brown Americans. They deflect and defend with all their might, and find reasons to minimize this horrific disaster.

        Watch them at work. They’ll come up with lots of reasons why this isn’t a tragedy.

        • jim_m

           That’s right dumbass.  While everyone here is lamenting the idiocy of the incident go ahead and accuse them of racism.

          You’re the bigot.

          And please explain how black author Glen Ford is a racist.  Yep, the man who runs the Black Agenda Report has been accused by Fred of being a racist.

          • Tater_Salad

            It took several days for right wing America to rise and defend Zimmerman, and the same is true here. As the press reports more and more on this right wing America will rise up to defend the murderer(s).

            Glen Ford? I didn’t say anything about Glen Ford.  I dont’ hve to explain how Glen Ford is a racist because I never said he was, and never said anything about the author, in fact. I was talking about people like you.

            See, they’re starting already – already finding reasons to deflect criticism away from these murderers. To throw stones at anyone who dares condemn these murders.

            It’ll take a few days, but people like this will start talking up reasons why these murders are not as serious as some feel they are.

            They’ll talk about black-on-black crime. Cause you know, it’s ok for white racists to kill black people if black people also commit murder against blacks.

            And if one of these victims ever comitted a crime themselves, whoa — jim will pounce all over that as a reason why the murder wasn’t that big a deal.

            That’s the way right wing racism works… and they’ll vilify anyone who dares point it out.

          • jim_m

             Go back to the Davis article. Glen Ford wrote the stupid thing.  You are calling Rick Rice a racist for repeating what Glen Ford wrote.  Glen Ford was criticizing Davis for saying that obama is a black radical.

            You accuse Rice of repeating what two blacks said.  You take the position that Rice is a racist but that neither Ford nor Davis are.

          • Tater_Salad

            Glen Ford didn’t write the headline, and never described Obama as a “black radical”

            It would appear that you resort to misleading statements and false accusations when you’re losing an argument.

          • jim_m

             The headline was a quote and an accurate summary.

            You forced an interpretation of racism on it.

            You are dishonest in the extreme.

          • Tater_Salad

            Ford never described Obama as a “black radical” and you just cant’ admit that.

          • jim_m


            Once again, FOrd quoted Davis.  Do you have this reading comprehension problem all the time?

          • Tater_Salad

            Ford quoted Davis, but Rice didn’t quote Ford when he wrote the headline…

            because Davis and Ford never said Obama is a “black radical” – only Rice said that in his headline.

             – and that fact won’t change no matter how many times you sigh and lie about it.

          • jim_m

            see below

          • jim_m

             So Rice is a racist for essentially quoting Davis who called obama a black radical, but Davis is not a racist for calling obama a black radical, and Ford is not a racist for calling attention to Davis calling obama a black radical.

            So if I understand you properly you are saying that any criticism of obama is racist.

          • Tater_Salad

            Absolutely not.

            But neither Davis or Ford described Obama as a “black radical” only Rice didn. “black radical” only Rice did that.

          • jim_m

            If Davis never called obama a Black Radical, then what was the purpose of Ford’s article?  The whole article was predicated on a denial of obama being a radical.

          • It sees everything through the lenses of race, making it, a racist.

          • jim_m

             Just a note:  Idiots like you who accuse everyone of racism don’t last long here.  But then I suspect you have already been banned here at least once.

          • Fred, you have a habit of imagining racism where there isn’t any.

          • Julie Pascal

            “It took several days for right wing America to rise and defend
            Zimmerman, and the same is true here. As the press reports more and more
            on this right wing America will rise up to defend the murderer(s).”

            Not having a knee-jerk reaction is usually considered a good thing.

            It took days (or weeks) for people to start defending Zimmerman because it took that long for information about the lies and what-not to become apparent.  Without the information, people who leap to judgment make fools of themselves.   People made up a scenario out of whole cloth where Zimmerman accosted Martin and then shot him, because he set out to shoot him.   After a while, and after some thought, some people started saying waitaminute… there’s holes in that story, people are claiming they *know* all sorts of things that they can’t possibly know; and while entirely unwilling to *defend* Zimmerman, people started to point that out.  And then we are vindicated when we find out the blatant lies at the base of it all.   Surprise?  No, not really.  

            Will anyone rise up to defend these guys?   It’s not *defending* them to say that it appears to be revenge.   Revenge isn’t a right that anyone much supports, not like self-defense which every person is entitled to. 

            But honestly… if races were reversed, there would be a whole lot of “defense” of the honest and understanding fury of the young black man who lost his father, and you know it.

            The “right wing” is most likely to be entirely consistent where the “left” would never be consistent.  Unless the basic “facts” turn out to be horrendously wrong, NO ONE is going to defend these murderers.

            Which is why there will NOT be huge protests, either.   White murderers being convicted and sentenced for killing black people and everyone agreeing that this is right and good doesn’t lend itself to race baiting.

            In fact, all that’s left is making up shit about what the other side is *going* to do in the future and getting all mad about it even when it never happens.

        • A more vivid case of projection has seldom been seen here on Wizbang.

        • Ah, another troll trying to play the race card. Well, it won’t work. Nobody is defending the two people arrested, and nobody is speaking ill of the shooting victims.

          • Tater_Salad

            It’ll take a couple of days, but watch for it.

        • Gmacr1

          You’re a shining example of what a bigot is, and your ability to project really does suck.

        • EricSteel

          WellSaidFred, it used to be that Conservatives were scared to death of being called a racist.  Much like being called a witch in Salem or a Communist in the era of Joe McCarthy.  It is a powerful charge, because it requires no proof and therefore cannot be refuted.

          The Left knows that and that’s why they use it with such abandon.  But the Left has never understood the concept of supply and demand.  When you increase the supply of something relative to demand, it’s value goes down.

          Its a shame that you are merely a pawn of the Left and are probably too simple minded to actually understand this, but your movement and it’s party have overused the racist charge.  Its value has been squandered by overuse and lack of any evidence.  Conservatives are not afraid of you because you call us racist.  We know its not true and we know that you say it because you have nothing better to say. 

          So now WE laugh at YOU.  You and all of your fellow Lefties are the joke with your pitiful claims of racism.  You remember Joe McCarthy, yet that hasn’t stopped you from becoming just like him.  But you have forgotten that when people woke up and realized what he was they laughed at him too, and he died a broken man.

    • He looks part Asian?


      Dude, obviously you aren’t around Native Americans very much. Jake England is Cherokee.

      • Commander_Chico

        Epicanthic folds on the eyes, black hair, you tell me the subtle differences.   “Native Americans” came over from North Asia, so many do look Asian.  

        I had a Mexican/Indian girlfriend who was always being stopped and spoken to in their native languages by Japanese or Chinese in Europe.  

        Most “Cherokees” I have met had red necks.

  • SeanSorrentino

    “This is not good.”

    What’s not good about it? If they are the shooters, then the fact that they are caught is great news.

    • Commander_Chico

      David meant that white (or a white and a half-Asian) guys riding around randomly shooting black guys was not good.  

      I’d posit that’s it’s a bit better if people are shooting members of their own race for the usual criminal or psychotic reasons, at least for social peace.

      • SeanSorrentino

        I know exactly what he was saying. He was accepting the premise that somehow all whites are responsible for the crimes of some whites. He is wrong to accept that premise. I refuse to accept the concept of collective guilt and collective blame. All murderers are my enemy, whatever the color of their skin. Capturing them is always a good thing.

        If others want to turn this into a “spark” for a race war, then the problem is with them. If a fire burns, it’s because there is fuel for that fire. If there was no fuel, then no matter how many sparks, there would be no fire.

        The “post Martin/Zimmerman” race riot everyone expects has nothing to do with the shooting/Stand Your Ground argument and everything to do with the anger in the hearts of those who want to riot. Pretending that something that a couple of possible racists did in Tulsa is lying to yourself and to others. People are responsible for their own actions.

        • Brucehenry

          No, I don’t think you DO know exactly what he was saying. “This is not good, From”… does not translate into accepting ANY premise, the one you say David accepted or any other.

          And there will be no “race war” despite paranoia in certain quarters. And not everyone expects a “post Martin/Zimmerman race riot.” I certainly don’t. I don’t think many reasonable folks do.

          Your comment, pardon me for saying so, sounds a little kooky to me.

          • jim_m

             I had taken, “This is not good” to mean that this would be leaped upon by the race merchants of the left to whip up more racial tension and animosity.

            Fred seems to have taken up that task rather predictably.

          •  And lamely.

          • Gmacr1

            I can’t believe I’m actually agreeing with you…

          • Brucehenry

            LOL that’s OK. I’m sure it will prove to be a one-off event. But thanks.

          • that way lies madness…

        • Commander_Chico

          Tell that to the Bosnians, Serbians, Croats, Kosovars; Protestants and Catholics in Belfast; Sunni and Shia in Iraq; Tutsi and Hutu in Rwanda, etc.

          Heck, tell it to Reginald Denny or any of the black guys these clowns shot down.Tribalism is a powerful force.

        • Sean, no you don’t know what I am saying. I neither said nor implied that “somehow all whites are responsible for the crimes of some whites”.

          In the Trayvon Martin case, Martin wasn’t shot because he was black. In the Tulsa case, the shooting victims were shot because they were black (as indicated by the Facebook postsing of one of the suspects). 

          Like it or not, there are African-American extremists who see racism under every rock and tree, and the Tulsa case will reinforce their beliefs.

          For the record, I grew up in north Tulsa and still live near there. I grew up exposed to racial tensions.

          • SeanSorrentino

            The fact that the suspects were caught is good, full stop. There is no other consideration. Justice is when those who do wrong are caught and made to pay the price. If others use this as an excuse to start trouble, that is not our fault, nor is is a reason for us to do anything other than celebrate the capture of the suspects.

            Racism requires people to first see the color of the skin. So stop looking at that skin. I don’t care what color these suspects are. I don’t care what color their victims are. It is totally beside the point. What is wrong is not that pale colored people were shooting dark colored people. What is wrong is that they were shooting people. You are accepting the premise that the color of their skin matters by acting like it makes even the slightest amount of difference that they were white or black. It makes none. Stop accepting the premises of the racists that keep separating people based upon the color of their skin.

          • Brucehenry

            I can’t decide if you’re totally dishonest, totally naive, or just dense as lead. In any case, you’re wrong.

          • SeanSorrentino

            Really? What’s wrong with it? Are you claiming that I, being white, should somehow bear the burdens of the crimes committed by people whose only connection to me is a superficial resemblance? There is nothing wrong with catching criminals. Complaining that their crimes are inconvenient because they advance the racist narrative of people who see nothing beyond skin color is stupid. It is accepting their racist premise, and I won’t do it.

            I just want to know why you will.

          • What on Earth are you talking about? Are you reading the same news reports that I am reading? Well, maybe not, because this story is a local one for me.

            A recent story states, “Two men were arrested Sunday in a shooting rampage that left three people dead and terrorized Tulsa’s black community, and police said one suspect may have been trying to avenge his father’s shooting two years ago by a black man.”

            Of course murder is wrong no matter who the murderer is or who the murder victim is. Yet, in the Tulsa case, it appears that the murder vitims were selected because they were black. If that was the case, then skin color does have something to do with what happened.Quote Source:

          • SeanSorrentino

            Why do you think it makes a difference? Murder is wrong. It doesn’t matter why it’s done, it’s wrong.

            The person who did this is so far gone down the psychopath/sociopath/whatever you want to call it that he was willing to murder random strangers. That’s the problem here, not the racism angle.

            Would the crime have been less terrible had he decided to shoot only women? Or redheads? Or rolled a d20 and shot anyone who got less than 7?

            Murder, defined as the willfull killing of another without reasonable justification, is wrong. Catching murderers, whatever their reason, is always a good thing. What’s strange is your flinch reaction. “Oh, this is bad…” It’s not bad at all, it’s great. It’s awesome.

            Anyone who takes this incident and tries to turn it into a race war is going to sieze on anything, or nothing, to start. They are no better than the shooter in this incident. Same goes for those for whom this will confirm their belief that all whites are racists.

            That these murders will confirm the crazy beliefs of wackos does not make the capture of the suspects inconvenient. Their crazy thoughts are their problem.

          • Brucehenry

            I’m gonna go with “dense as lead.”

    • That the shooters were caught is great new. What is not good is that the shootings took place during the Trayvon Martin controversy. Already some African-American extremists want us to believe that current race relations in the USA are like those of the 1950s.

  • ackwired

    Thanks for a clear demonstration of the danger of thinking in stereotypes.  This poor fool blamed all members of a race for the actions of one or two members.  Stereotypes often lead to flawed conclusions, sometimes tragic.

    • GarandFan

      You should mention that to Obama – you know, ‘bitter clingers’……………

      • ackwired

        I’m afraid that I don’t have any meetings with him currently scheduled.  But if it happens I’ll be happy to mention it.

        It definitely is a danger for all of us, regardless of what “groups” we fit into.

  • LiberalNightmare

    Im holding my opinion until the facts come out. Or, until Al Sharpton tells me what to think.

    Whichever comes first.

    • Tater_Salad

      And you’ll know when it’s safe cause Michelle Malkin and Rush Limbaugh will tell you so?

      • LiberalNightmare


        What are you afraid of punkin?

        • Tater_Salad

          People who can’t think for themselves so they get their opinions from Al Sharpton and Michelle Malkin, sweetie.

  • Brucehenry

    May I suggest a Wizbang article on the firing of John Derbyshire at NRO?

    • jim_m

       Indeed.  I have not been able to see the article that he wrote and would like to know more.

      • Brucehenry

        Check Outside the Beltway. I think it’s still their lead story. The article, btw, is pretty horrifying.

        • jim_m

          Thanks. I found it. THe link yesterday was down.  OTB brands it as bizarre, which while technically correct, doesn’t quite fully describe it. I’m at a loss to say what motivated him to write that and why he would imagine giving such a talk to his children.  NRO was correct to dismiss him.

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  • Commander_Chico

    I read the Derbyshire thing and ascribe it to inadequate experience of the world.  So many people in the upper- and upper-middle and some of the middle classes have lived in a bubble.  They have not had the full spectrum of experience with black America as co-workers or casual friends to give them a true view of black Americans as fellow humans with their own burdens and abilities.   

    Derbyshire’s article put a lot of weight on standardized test measurements.  My own experience in the military has given me a skeptical view of standardized tests as a measure of ability.  I was surprised to find out that many people, black and white, who were articulate, had sophisticated views and were even good linguists and chess players had low scores on standardized tests.  I feel sorry for any kid who would get the “talk” that Derbyshire was describing – they would live in fear and miss out in a lot of fun.

    • I attribute it to real world experience which it seems you may not have.  Go on over to “the hood” tonight, walk around the streets, and do so alone.  If you survive come back tomorrow and let’s talk.  Sometimes the truth is not pretty but that doesn’t make it false. To avoid unknown groups of a segment of our population that commits the majority of crimes and may hold resentment toward other races is common sense, not racism.  It is self preservation to stay out of areas that are known for violence and drug use.  Teaching our decedents to be aware of the dangers faced in today’s society is what any good parent must do. Mr. Derbyshire was using his 1st Amendment right to express these warnings.  It is too bad RHINOS are too constrained by their concern to be PC to engage in discussions that could lead to solutions to the racial divides we have in America.

  • An update to the above-posted story is found at the following link: 

    The update gives me the impression that the younger suspect went on a shooting rampage in response to the deaths of his father and his girlfriend. However, nowhere does the story say that the suspect is mentally incompetent. Of course a defense attorney might claim that the shooter was mentally incompetent at the time of the shooting, but that would not be a surprise. Defense attorneys have made such claims in cases of white-on-white crimes.

    Being that this particular story is a local one for me, I’ll monitor the local news and reactions by local residents.

  • What I thought might happen has happened, at least a little bit.

    A current story about the Tulsa shootings states the following:

    While Tulsa police were reluctant to describe the shootings there as racially motivated, City Councilman Jack Henderson was not.

    “Being an NAACP president for seven years, I think that somebody that committed these crimes were very upset with black people,” Henderson said. “That person happened to be a white person, the people they happened to kill and shoot are black people. That fits the bill for me.”

    Prior to being elected to the Tulsa city council, Henderson earned local fame by engaging in his own version of race hustling. He mentions being the president of the Tulsa chapter of the NAACP, but during the time that he was, he got into trouble with the Tulsa chapter when he wrongfully involved the NAACP in his accusation that the Tulsa police chief was engaging in racism. The police chief sued Henderson for defamation and won.
    Quote Source:

    • jim_m

       . The police chief sued Henderson for defamation and won.

      Leftist race baiters never let truth get in their way.

    • Julie Pascal

      Actually… it seems to me that this is exactly racism.    It’s all that *other* stuff that’s not.

      It’s this person’s very own individual racism.   I agree “I think that somebody that committed these crimes were very upset with black people.”  Pretty obviously that was true.

  • Latin2

    Jake England, the suspected shooter, is NOT WHITE. He is an American Indian and a member of the Cherokee Nation.

    • Commander_Chico

      They took the whole Cherokee nation
      And put us on this reservation
      They took away our ways of life
      The tomahawk and the bow and knife

      They took away our native tongue
      And taught their English to our young
      And all the beads we made by hand
      Are nowadays made in Japan

      Cherokee people
      Cherokee tribe
      So proud to live
      So proud to die

      They took the whole Indian nation
      Locked us on this reservation
      And though I wear a shirt and tie
      I still part Redman deep inside

      Cherokee people
      Cherokee tribe
      So proud to live
      So proud to die

      And some day when they’ve learned
      Cherokee Indian will return
      Will return will return
      Will return will return 

  • Many blacks have been going around attacking whitey because they are white. Groups of blacks stand around and laugh and are unapologetic about it just like the case of beating and stealing of a white tourist in downtown Baltimore.
    Sooner or later there is going to be blowback. At some points there will be groups of whites that take revenge.  Unfortunately this President and the black community are encouraging a race war instead of preventing it.  It is sad but true.

    • jim_m

      At some points there will be groups of whites that take revenge.

      I’m betting not.

      • I hope not but I wouldn’t bet against it. I get the feeling that many are getting tired of blacks attacking whites because they are white.