Communist Mandela Chose to Side With Despots, Murders Like Castro, Arafat, and Ghadafi

Everyone has turned to star-struck mush on the death of former South African President Nelson Mandela, but it should be remembered that he chose to side with murderers, despots, and communists when he emerged from prison in the 1980s. He also headed up a political party guilty of murder and terrorism.


Nelson Mandela, Winnie Mandela and Jow Slovo sing Nksoi Sikelele I’afrika in Soweto. The Communist Party holds its first public meeting in South Africa in 1990, after being banned for decades.

Mandela was the head of the African National Congress Party (ANC) a party guilty of decades of murder, terrorism, and violence. In fact, South African President P.W. Botha gave Mandela the opportunity to walk out of jail for free if he just renounced the ANC’s terrorism. He always refused to renounce terrorism.

But beyond the crimes he was accused of before he became “the” Mandela that everyone so gauzily remembers, he had a long list of crimes accredited to him. At the bottom of the page you can see a list of the charges leveled against him.

The truth is, Nelson Mandela was the head of UmKhonto we Sizwe, (MK), the terrorist wing of the ANC and South African Communist Party. He had pleaded guilty to 156 acts of public violence including mobilizing terrorist bombing campaigns, which planted bombs in public places, including the Johannesburg railway station. Many innocent people, including women and children, were killed by Nelson Mandela’s MK terrorists–murderers he never, ever renounced.

But even after he walked out of prison and became the elected president of South Africa, Mandela chose to side with some of the worst monsters of the 20th century.

Nelson Mandela was an avowed Communist and he sided with Cuban murderer and dictator Fidel Castro, he sided with the USSR, he sided with Mumar Ghadafi and the terrorist and so-called “Palestinian” Yasser Arafat.

And, as Breitbart’s Joel Pollak notes, the Old Media establishment is trying to sue Mandela’s death as yet another excuse to attack conservatives in general and Ronald Reagan in particular.

As Pollak says,

More important, the left is ignoring the context in which conservatives were skeptical of Mandela and the ANC–namely, the fact that they had aligned themselves with the Soviet Union, as well as some of the most villainous figures of the time, including Fidel Castro, Yasser Arafat, and Muammar Ghadafi. For conservatives, the fight against Soviet communism was the overriding strategic concern, and Mandela had chosen the wrong side.

That does not mean Mandela ought to be saddled with all the evils of the Soviet empire. He kept communism at arm’s length and tried to argue that his partnership with the USSR was a means to an end, much like America’s own alliance with Stalin during WWII had been a strategic move, not necessarily a moral endorsement. Yet it is the most challenging part of Mandela’s otherwise inspiring legacy, and one that cannot be erased from history.

Pollak also astutely points out that South Africa only started improving the little bit it did under Mandela only after the Soviet Union collapsed and international communism fell apart as a Cold War threat.

So, let’s have some perspective, shall we?

The Charges Against Nelson Mandela:

One count under the South African Suppression of Communism Act No. 44 of 1950, charging that the accused committed acts calculated to further the achievement of the objective of communism;
Nelson Mandela

One count of contravening the South African Criminal Law Act (1953), which prohibits any person from soliciting or receiving any money or articles for the purpose of achieving organized defiance of laws and country; and

Two counts of sabotage, committing or aiding or procuring the commission of the following acts:

1) The further recruitment of persons for instruction and training, both within and outside the Republic of South Africa, in:

(a) the preparation, manufacture and use of explosives—for the purpose of committing acts of violence and destruction in the aforesaid Republic, (the preparation and manufacture of explosives, according to evidence submitted, included 210,000 hand grenades, 48,000 anti-personnel mines, 1,500 time devices, 144 tons of ammonium nitrate, 21.6 tons of aluminum powder and a ton of black powder);

(b) the art of warfare, including guerrilla warfare, and military training generally for the purpose in the aforesaid Republic;
Nelson Mandela
(ii) Further acts of violence and destruction, (this includes 193 counts of terrorism committed between 1961 and 1963);

(iii) Acts of guerrilla warfare in the aforesaid Republic;

(iv) Acts of assistance to military units of foreign countries when involving the aforesaid Republic;

(v) Acts of participation in a violent revolution in the aforesaid Republic, whereby the accused, injured, damaged, destroyed, rendered useless or unserviceable, put out of action, obstructed, with or endangered.

So? Tell us what you think of Mandela, won’t you?

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Posted by on December 7, 2013.
Filed under Africa, Anti-Semitism, Big government, Business, corruption, Deaths, Democracy, Democrats, Free Market Economy, History, Liberals, Media, Society.
Warner Todd Huston is a Chicago-based freelance writer, has been writing opinion editorials and social criticism since early 2001 and is featured on many websites such as Andrew Breitbart's BigGovernment.com and BigJournalism.com, RightWingNews.com, CanadaFreePress.com, RightPundits.com, StoptheACLU.com, Human Events Magazine, among many, many others. Additionally, he has been a frequent guest on talk-radio programs to discuss his opinion editorials and current events. He has also written for several history magazines and appears in the new book "Americans on Politics, Policy and Pop Culture" which can be purchased on amazon.com. He is also the owner and operator of PubliusForum.com. Feel free to contact him with any comments or questions, EMAIL Warner Todd Huston: igcolonel .at. hotmail.com "The only end of writing is to enable the reader better to enjoy life, or better to endure it." --Samuel Johnson

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  • Brucehenry

    Not only did the US side with the USSR during World War Two, but Washington sided with Louis XVI during the Revolution. Doesn’t make Washington a Royalist or a Bourbon, now does it?

    Mandela was trying to free his country from one of the most odious regimes in history. If he chose to embrace as allies people who you wouldn’t, that doesn’t make his accomplishments any less.

    Mandela’s country today, largely due to his efforts, is free, relatively prosperous, and is developing and enjoying a tradition of peaceful transfer of power. You haters and revisionists can’t diminish his legacy. It makes you look pathetic, small, and deluded that you would even try.

    • Zach Watkins

      U.S. would have been better to be isolationist on WWI, WWIII, and almost everything else. I agree our world policy is a disaster!

      • Brucehenry

        Ummm, I don’t agree with that….That sounds a little kooky.

        • Commander_Chico

          The USA should have stayed out of WW I – if Germany had won that war, Hitler would have been a failed artist and there would have been no WW II.

          • Brucehenry

            Debatable. Too many variables.

            And besides, Imperial Germany wasn’t exactly a benevolent power. A militaristic, nationalistic, Aryan-supremacist behemoth, just more bloated, more top-heavy, and less efficient than the Nazis.

            If WW 1 had ended after the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk it would have left the Kaiser, a megalomaniacal Freudian nightmare, in charge of most of Eastern Europe and a nascent Soviet Union in charge of the rest. Not such a great scenario for the West.

          • Commander_Chico

            Yeah, Germany and the USSR would have fought it out without our involvement and without the Holocaust. Kaiser Wilhelm II died in 1941, now Georg Friedrich would be Kaiser.

            http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTuV7KZZVtIDGzGyJCGNlYUR4k9V6ilvP5G3HwLVAMJZ5zC6y1YIQ

          • Brucehenry

            I’m just saying, it’s interesting to speculate but history is what it is.

            Who knows what might have happened had the US not entered World War One? Only God and Harry Turtledove.

            BTW there were plenty of virulent anti-Semites in the Prussian ruling elite. There may still have been a Holocaust.

          • Brucehenry

            BTW I recommend a book “Berlin Diaries 1940-1945″ by Marie Vassiltchikov. It’s her actual diary. She was from a family of exiled, deposed, penniless Romanov cousins, who found herself working as a typist in the Propaganda Ministry in Berlin in 1940. She had many connections with the old aristocratic families (her sister married a Metternich, she relays tales of parties with various Bismarcks, Bourbons, Hohenzollerns, etc.)

            The coolest thing is that she was an acquaintance of many of the conspirators of the July 20 1944 plot to assassinate Hitler, although she took no part in it herself. It’s a fascinating read.

          • http://www.rustedsky.net JLawson

            Thanks for the recommendation, Bruce. It’ll be interesting looking at the ‘inside’ of their propaganda efforts.

          • jim_m

            The World you just described is what Chico would usually claim to be a paradise.

          • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

            Now our soi disant cognoscenti is telling God how to run the clock back and start over…

    • twolaneflash

      Spoken like a true useful idiot, Brucehenry. You’ve got the talking points down pat, comrade. Stand up in your Che t-shirt and sing The Internationale, in French of course, while you pledge to that Hammer & Sickle emblazoned Red flag, wiping away the tears of your sorrow over the death of another murdering terrorist lover of communism.

      • Brucehenry

        And I’VE got “the talking points down pat,” says this cliche-spouting genius. What a cartoon character.

      • NotBlind

        Do you get up every day and salute the flag that is drenched in genocide, blood and arrogance? I bet you do! I dont mind the US, been once, may visit again, doubt i’ll ever visit Africa, not my kind of place. But no man is perfect, no man gets through life without hard choices, and for whatever reason Mandela did what he did, it was for the good of his people. He had balls to stand up and make hard choices that probably weighed on him during his time in prison. You spout cliches like what youre saying has substance, it does not, so sit down and keep being a nobody, just do it quietly

    • Commander_Chico

      If you are for human freedom and decency, you have to admire Mandela.

      The major FAIL and disgrace was that the USA did not always support human freedom as it should have. For example, supporting French colonial rule in Vietnam in the late 40s and early 50s, and abiding with the odious system of apartheid in SA.

      When the USA did not live up to its ideals, there were others waiting to take advantage. “The enemy of my enemy is my friend.”

      What Col. Patrick Lang (ret) said:

      http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2013/12/mandela-dead-but-de-klerk-yet-lives.html

      • ljcarolyne

        Mandela is admired by our Despot Obama, so that is enough admiration communist society. What a crock of evil.
        I have no plans to admire Communist like Mandela or Obama.

        • NotBlind

          You think Obama is a despot? youre moronic. You have no clue what oppression is, and i hope that cluelessness leads you to a slow, misery filled revalation later in life.

      • NotBlind

        no country is perfect, British Colonialism, American Colonisation, the expansion of the Roman Empire, all depends on whether the ends justify the means in the final analysis. Mandela was admired the world over, i can respect that he wasnt perfect, but he did the right thing for the right reasons, despite the cost to his soul.

    • warnertoddhuston

      This is a lie…

      “Mandela’s country today, largely due to his efforts, is free, relatively prosperous, and is developing and enjoying a tradition of peaceful transfer of power.”

      Were it up to Mandela none of that would have happened. The ONLY reason all that happened is that communism feel out of favor after the Soviet Union fell. It happened quite despite what Mandela did, not because of it.

      • Commander_Chico

        What would have prevented Mandela from imposing a communist system in SA, or even confiscating lands as Mugabe did in Zimbabwe? The USSR was not necessary for the survival of the systems in Cuba or N. Korea, either.

      • Brucehenry

        Haha yes Clairvoyant Warner knows what might have happened had Mandela not come to power and the USSR not disintegrated. Since Mandela DID serve a term as president, and the USSR DID dissolve, Clairvoyant Warner is talking out his ass.

        “Were it up to Mandela none of that would have happened.” Oh, exactly, except it WAS up to Mandela, and it DID happen. What universe does this guy live in?

        • NotBlind

          people who are wrong often use made up shit as a way of masking their utter failing to have a point. Warner is one of many that simply find imagination makes up for evidence

    • iwogisdead

      Hard to imagine how SA is “relatively prosperous” when it has 25% unemployment. SA has the second highest murder/assault rate in the world and the highest rape rate in the world. Great place to be!!!!!
      Fact is, Mandela was a terrorist and racist, among other things. He admitted that he gave the go-ahead for the Pretoria Church Street bombing that killed 19. There’s a tape of him singing a song encouraging his MK members to kill white people, and it seems his message got through. I’d post something about white genocide in SA (there’s a Wiki page about white farmers being murdered in SA), but one of the resident liberals would respond with something about global warming.

      • Brucehenry

        Relative to Zimbabwe, Congo, Zambia, and many other African countries that lacked a leader of the caliber of Mandela, no, it’s not hard.

        Where’ve you been? Lurking in the comment section for the last few years? Decide to come back to practice your patented McCarthyite Snark?

        Conservatives need to give up this effort to demonize one of the Great Men of the last half-century and try to co-opt him, as this hack from NRO is doing:

        http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/365631/nelson-mandela-rip-deroy-murdock

        It’s pathetic and too little too late, and it’s a hilarious attempt to be a conservative warrior. ( “By the light of Ronald Wilson Reagan, many young conservatives like me spent much of the 1980s fighting Marxism-Leninism — from the classrooms of radical campuses to the battlefields of Grenada, Nicaragua, and El Salvador, both overtly and covertly” hahahahaha). But at least you’d be seen as human beings with a sense of empathy and not as ideological fools who can’t see the facts in front of your faces.

        • iwogisdead

          So, to summarize your response, SA is a stinking shithole, but compared to other shitholes, it is merely disgusting. You don’t want to address the Church Street Bombing or white genocide in SA, but would rather attack me personally. Some things never change.

          • Brucehenry

            LOL, the wikipedia page on the Church Street bombing (which took place in 1983, 7 years before Mandela’s release from prison, and which was perpetrated by a movement created 16 years after his internment) doesn’t even mention Mandela’s name.

            Now, I know your immediate response will be a sniffed “Wikipedia? Really?” So I delved a little deeper into the “white genocide” claim. There I find site after site that refers to the end of “so-called apartheid” and were obviously the Afrikaner version of Alex Jones-Glenn Beck-type conspiracy mongerers. But good try.

            http://www.genocidewatch.org/southafrica.html

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Street_bombing

            But at least I include some links, which is more than you did. Some things, it is true, never do change.

            BTW, if the fever swamps I found on the google page about “white genocide” are the kind of sites you get all your politics from, it explains a little bit about your worldview.

          • Henri le Riche

            You got the hallmarks of a troll.

            Gregory Stanton is an American and chairman of genocide watch. He testified for the Rwandan genocide, and also the Kmer Rouge. How is that right wing? Is human suffering a monopoly of leftists only?

            Human suffering has not affiliation. Get that?

            Did I mention you sound like a troll. In Afrikaans we would call you a drol :-)

          • Brucehenry

            LOL, the wikipedia page on the Church Street bombing (which took place in 1983, 7 years before Mandela’s release from prison, and which was perpetrated by a movement created 16 years after his internment) doesn’t even mention Mandela’s name.

            Now, I know your immediate response will be a sniffed “Wikipedia? Really?” So I delved a little deeper into the “white genocide” claim. There I find site after site that refers to the end of “so-called apartheid” and were obviously the Afrikaner version of Alex Jones-Glenn Beck-type conspiracy mongerers. But good try.

            http://www.genocidewatch.org/southafrica.html

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Street_bombing

            But at least I include some links, which is more than you did. Some things, it is true, never do change.

            BTW, if the fever swamps I found on the google page about “white genocide” are the kind of sites you get all your politics from, it explains a little bit about your worldview.

          • Brucehenry
          • iwogisdead

            Oh, so you can cherry-pick some internet article and include “lol” to show its authenticity while claiming that everything on the internet that you disagree with is a “fever swamp.” This is your idea of a discussion? I can pick some site like this one:

            http://whitegenocideproject.com/category/news/news-for-south-africa/

            to show that there may be a white genocide issue in SA. Do I need to cleverly include “lol”? You still haven’t explained the video of Mandela’s song encouraging his followers to kill white people. Whether they have or have not followed his advice, it certainly has something to do with his “legacy.” And, I don’t need Wiki to prove his authorization for the Church Street bombing–Mandela himself admitted that he authorized the bombing in his book “The Long Road to Freedom.”

          • Brucehenry

            You link to one of the very loony sites I perused while looking into your claim of “white genocide.” I clicked on almost every link on the first two Google pages of my search and nearly every one was full of the very same unsubstantiated claims and inflated statistics that my link, above, called into question. Most of them link back and forth to each other as back-up.

            I saw the video of Mandela singing with his supporters, but since I don’t speak Zulu or Xhosa or whatever language they’re singing in (AND NEITHER DO YOU) I have no way of knowing whether the subtitles are accurate, unless I just accept the word of some dude who posted it on Youtube and might, oh I don’t know, have maybe some kind of agenda?

            You’ll have to quote and cite page numbers on your book cite if you want me to buy your claim, considering the quality of the evidence you’ve provided so far — which is one link I’ve already seen and which is suspect, to say the least. Just check the comment section and you’ll see who listens to this kind of apartheid nostalgia. Why, it’s almost as if you didn’t include links at first because they were so embarrassingly crazy! Nah, that couldn’t be it.

            But it’s either that or you’re a credulous rube who’ll believe anything that comforts him in his looniness.

            Also, BTW, the Wikipedia page you say is there to support your claim about white farmers being murdered doesn’t support your claim that these murders are “genocide,” genius.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_farm_attacks

            ADDING EDIT: Something tells me you haven’t seen the admission of authorizing murder yourself, but have only heard secondhand it’s in there, since you DON’T KNOW THE NAME OF THE BOOK. I assume you haven’t read it. It’s “The Long Walk To Freedom.”

          • Brucehenry

            You link to one of the very loony sites I perused while looking into your claim of “white genocide.” I clicked on almost every link on the first two Google pages of my search and nearly every one was full of the very same unsubstantiated claims and inflated statistics that my link, above, called into question. Most of them link back and forth to each other as back-up.

            I saw the video of Mandela singing with his supporters, but since I don’t speak Zulu or Xhosa or whatever language they’re singing in (AND NEITHER DO YOU) I have no way of knowing whether the subtitles are accurate, unless I just accept the word of some dude who posted it on Youtube and might, oh I don’t know, have maybe some kind of agenda?

            You’ll have to quote and cite page numbers on your book cite if you want me to buy your claim, considering the quality of the evidence you’ve provided so far — which is one link I’ve already seen and which is suspect, to say the least. Just check the comment section and you’ll see who listens to this kind of apartheid nostalgia. Why, it’s almost as if you didn’t include links at first because they were so embarrassingly crazy! Nah, that couldn’t be it.

            But it’s either that or you’re a credulous rube who’ll believe anything that comforts him in his looniness.

            Also, BTW, the Wikipedia page you say is there to support your claim about white farmers being murdered doesn’t support your claim that these murders are “genocide,” genius.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_African_farm_attacks

            ADDING EDIT: Something tells me you haven’t seen the admission of authorizing murder yourself, but have only heard secondhand it’s in there, since you DON’T KNOW THE NAME OF THE BOOK. I assume you haven’t read it. It’s “The Long Walk To Freedom.”

          • Brucehenry

            BTW do you think Begin and Shamir are terrorists with irredeemable legacies? If not why not?

          • Brucehenry

            I’ve now looked at many of the “white genocide” sites on the web. Many if not most have some kind of creepy anti-Semitism tinge to ‘em. You into that stuff, Iwog?

            Several I saw kept harping on the “Lithuanian Jew Joe Slovo” who supposedly manipulated the “communist” stooge Mandela. Again, if this is the kind of site you’re getting your information from, you need to take a breath, dude.

          • iwogisdead

            I knew that before too long, you’d start with some serious name-calling, since that’s your style. Implying that I’m an anti-Semite, though, is beyond the pale, even for you..
            But, you’re right, I made an error in the title of Mandela’s book. MK was the violent organization that Mandela founded and led. In Chapter 88 of his book, Mandela talks about MK’s Church Street bombing. In reference to that bombing, he talks about “our decision to take up arms.” He also tries to justify it by saying that the bombing was retaliatory and that “. . . the armed struggle was imposed upon us by the violence of the apartheid regime.”

          • Brucehenry

            Yeah, maybe you didn’t know that many if not most of the websites promoting this “white genocide in South Africa” meme, including the one you linked to, were run by outfits like Stormfront and other “white nationalists,” Sport.

            I’m not implying you’re an anti-Semite. I’m telling you flat-out that if you go around squawking about “white genocide in South Africa” you’re a TOOL of anti-Semites and white supremacists, genius.

            Yeah, I know there was an “armed struggle” and I know Mandela founded MK. So tell me, Mr Second Amendment Remedy, if the US government became as oppressive to 90% of our population as the apartheid government was to theirs, would you take up arms or would you be patient? Would you sit still for being shut out of most professions for racial reasons, being forced to carry an “internal passport,” being subject to deportation to Redneckistans, and being denied the vote? Or would you join with other patriots and struggle by all means necessary to end the oppression?

            I’d like to hear the answer to those questions from any of you gun fondlers who are always talking about watering the tree of liberty yada yada.

          • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

            That would make you an apologists for attempted genocide, sport.

          • iwogisdead

            Relax, Bruce. I don’t think anyone believes that exploding a car bomb that kills 19 people and wounds 217 (like Mandela’s MK did) is something protected by the Second Amendment.

          • Brucehenry

            Not an answer, but I suppose you did the best you could.

            Now go check out the link you posted and tell me it’s not a racist site.

          • iwogisdead

            Oh, so you can cherry-pick some internet article and include “lol” to show its authenticity while claiming that everything on the internet that you disagree with is a “fever swamp.” This is your idea of a discussion? I can pick some site like this one:

            http://whitegenocideproject.com/category/news/news-for-south-africa/

            to show that there may be a white genocide issue in SA. Do I need to cleverly include “lol”? You still haven’t explained the video of Mandela’s song encouraging his followers to kill white people. Whether they have or have not followed his advice, it certainly has something to do with his “legacy.” And, I don’t need Wiki to prove his authorization for the Church Street bombing–Mandela himself admitted that he authorized the bombing in his book “The Long Road to Freedom.”

          • Brucehenry
    • LiberalNightmare

      “It makes you look pathetic, small, and deluded that you would even try.”

      On Columbus day, I’m going to remind you that you said this.

      • Brucehenry

        Yeah because Columbus and Mandela are exactly the same, only mirror images. Or something.

        If you got nothing, it’s better to say nothing, LN.

        • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

          If you followed your own advice we’d seldom, if ever, hear from you…

          • Brucehenry

            And apparently you’d seldom hear from anyone else, either, considering the fact that every comment on this thread is in response to mine.

            But good job, good job. With the potshot, I mean.

          • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

            I’d take that chance.

          • NotBlind

            wouldnt be much of a discussion thread if that was true. kinda of pointless argument

          • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

            I’d take that chance.

    • Paul Hooson

      As a teenager I used to attend meetings of the old anticommunist John Birch Society as well as I was a 17 year old youth worker for President Nixon in 1972. What I had failed to see back then was that Communists didn’t all have to fall into one single monolithic order or that some Communists were more of a reaction to previous colonial powers. Ho Chi Minh as well as the Chinese Communists were all more pragmatic than the Soviet or Eastern bloc nations Communists, and the U.S. had missed many opportunities with these Communists to seek a reapproachment. Now, these Chinese and Vietnamese Communists are some of the best trade and banking partners for the U.S. Strangely, these Chinese Communists are now the world’s best capitalists.
      Nelson Mandela fit into a whole other frame of mind. Certainly, his ANC movement was a reaction to the ongoing colonial influence, especially of the Dutch in his country. Although frustration with this rule sometimes bent him towards the support for revolutionary uprising, he managed to reshape himself into a moderate democratic ruler as president of South Africa. And, Mandela had many differences with Communism during his lifetime as well, where Communists were hardly his perfect political allies. Mandela wanted freedom for the people he represented, not a trade of oppression to some Stalinist state.
      You have to think of Mandela more in the framework of a Gorbachev or Yeltsin. Gorbachev and Yeltsin rose up in the ranks of Communism, yet both evolved into decent moderate democratic leaders. The U.S. and many allies in Europe including even Ronald Reagan viewed Mandela as a reasonable moderate, who once held some radical views, but had evolved into a reliable moderate democratic leader who didn’t attempt to seize power or end democratic elections or any of the failings of Communists.

      • Brucehenry

        Tell it to your genius buddies, not me.

        EDIT: Sorry, overly snarky.

        Yes that is the consensus view. Know why? Because it’s what, you know, actually happened. But not so’s you’d notice on the Right Blogosphere.

      • jim_m

        Sorry, You lost me when you typed I, I, I….

        Was there something that followed the self referential part?

    • 914

      Poppycock. Although I am sure he will receive posthumous awards for freedom and valor like the very racist Oprah. His legacy is cast along with Baracks into failure and misery.

      • NotBlind

        pretty sure the rantings of some vocal haters that only had the balls to raise theyre voice after the man was dead will go down in history as one of humanities failings. Mandela did horrible things and he did great and good things, maybe the balance is far from perfect, but who are you to judge anybody?

        • 914

          NoSight,

          This post was posted after his death Einstein. I can judge whatever I want however I want .

          It’s called freedom of expression genius. Something Mandella and apparently you are offended by.

          • NotBlind

            Nope, just think your level of vitriol and disgust shows you to be a close minded little retard with a stunted view of the world. Freedom of expression? wow, im in awe of this blanket term, apparently it gives close minded conspiracy freak racists the right to mouth off. Heres something I like, the right to reply, meaning whatever shit you spew, i can come right back and call you an asshole. Not a constitutional thing, more a general internet thing. You spoke your mind, im speaking mine. Enjoy watching Fox news and stockpiling guns for the rapture you utter bellend.

    • 914

      Poppycock. Although I am sure he will receive posthumous awards for freedom and valor like the very racist Oprah. His legacy is cast along with Baracks into failure and misery.

    • jim_m

      Sorry Bruce, not everyone believes in using any means possible to achieve our political aims.

      • Brucehenry

        Washington did, though.

        • jim_m

          He was fighting a war dumbass.

          • Brucehenry

            Mandela was fighting to free his people, he just didn’t have an army as Washington did. Thank God the Soviets didn’t send Mandela the same kind of help Louis XVI sent Washington, huh?

          • jim_m

            Yep, and that whole government and army thing kind of makes a big difference.

          • Brucehenry

            Yeah, if the British had just cracked down harder, like the Boers did, maybe they could have locked up Washington for 27 years and delayed the Revolution until 1800 or so.

          • jim_m

            Their loss.

          • Brucehenry

            So, no real point to your sniping? Practicing to be a soi disant moderator?

          • jim_m

            I think that if you bother to read the Declaration of Independence (there is a first time for everything, don’t be afraid), you will find that one of the offenses is that the British were constantly abolishing the governments in the colonies, so in a very real sense they did delay the revolution.

          • Brucehenry

            Very germane indeed.

            I guess.

          • jim_m

            No, the germanes were the mercenaries that the British employed. ;)

          • Brucehenry

            Yeah, when Washington crossed the Rubicon.

          • NotBlind

            So basically Mandela did a similar thing, not the same thing. Wow, yeah, i see your point, a lifetime of positive achievement is null and void, let us only mention his failings. He believed in whatever means necessary to change the country for his people, he wasnt a Republican slaughtering thousands to repeal Obamacare, it was a tad more black and white (pardon the pun) In fact why dont we just bring back subjugation of non-whites too, his legacy obviously means nothing, why not his achievement

          • 914

            Where did he ‘fight’? How many tires did he use ti win?

    • Henri le Riche

      I can agree he wanted to free South Africa from a system, but the rest of your comment just shows how ill informed you are. Nothing to do with haters. More to do with being informed or uninformed. But then again, sheep follow the information from what they are told which is usually not the whole story…

      As an old SA soldier myself, and worldly traveled it was obbvious to me, what people on the outside of South Africa were told, and what happened in many ways, lots were half truths, and lies. People were so much foaming at the mouth when they heard “anti-racist” propaganda in the 80′s. they believed everything they heard.

      Bruce, meet Maki Skaskona, one of 3000 murdered by the ANC you ideolise…(Which the Apartheid government fought against because they were Marxists.)

      This is still happening in South Africa!

      • alanstorm

        Don’t try to confuse Bruce with facts.

    • alanstorm

      Mandela headed a Communist organization. Kinda makes hash of your attempted ploy of a “no guilt by association” defense.

      • Brucehenry

        And where do I attempt to do that, Mr “Reading Comprehension”?

  • 914

    Since Barry speaks glowingly about Nelson you know he stinks!

  • http://HoaxAndChange.com/ John Hames

    Amen, Mandela was a murder of Christians. Ever wonder what it would be like to take a car tire, fill it full of gasoline, then push it down over a Christian’s head and chest,,, then light it on fire? Mandela can tell you what that is like to do that to someone. They called it Necklacing, Winnie, his wife was particularly fond of it. Check it out, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necklacing My guess is Mr. Mandela is in a particularly warm place at the moment.

    We fly our flags at half staff for a Marxist loving terrorist, but not flown at half staff for Margaret Thatcher, a leader that helped bring down Communism and was one of our greatest allies.

    • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

      I shall fly Old Glory at full staff on the day of his funeral.

      • http://HoaxAndChange.com/ John Hames

        Amen

    • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

      I shall fly Old Glory at full staff on the day of his funeral.

    • Brucehenry

      Your own link says the first instance of necklacing was in 1985 while Mandela was imprisoned. It says that Winnie Mandela made a statement which “was widely seen” as endorsing the practice.

      Then it goes on to say that the issue was investigated and dealt with by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, established by Mandela and a great success in achieving national harmony.

      Do you Mensa Members even read the stuff you cite as evidence for your wild-eyed claims?

      • http://HoaxAndChange.com/ John Hames

        Not my ink, that was WiKi, Mandela was well known to issue orders from his jail cell. Do a little more research then get back to me.

        • Brucehenry

          LOL maybe you can “do a little more research” so you can post a link that actually, umm, you know, supports the assertions you claim it does.

    • Brucehenry

      Your own link says the first instance of necklacing was in 1985 while Mandela was imprisoned. It says that Winnie Mandela made a statement which “was widely seen” as endorsing the practice.

      Then it goes on to say that the issue was investigated and dealt with by the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, established by Mandela and a great success in achieving national harmony.

      Do you Mensa Members even read the stuff you cite as evidence for your wild-eyed claims?

  • Alpha_Male

    I know being a troll and my only contribution has been to ask why LW receives such negative votes, but I just couldn’t help myself on this topic!
    Little background, born in SA to American parents working abroad, returned to the US in HS and went back in the late 80′s, attended 2 years at Raan Afrikaans Univ. in Johannesburg. My question is have any of you ever been to the RSA? Other than some crap on the internet and Wikipedia do you have any clue what it was like or is like now?

    Do you have any clue what the ANC has done to the country? They’ve turned it from a shining beacon of economic strength into another African, 3rd world shithole! The first thing Mandela and his supporters did was loot the treasury and deposit the stolen goods into European and other foreign banks. Whites are constantly under attack, the infrastructure is gone, investment has dried up and the poverty level along with crime has increased exponentially.

    I’m not going to defend apartheid but praising Mandela as some kind of god like figure is imbecilic at best. I’ve lived in the States for more than 20 years now and it always amazes me at how people that live in little gated suburbs, running around claiming how they have minority friends, calling everyone who disagrees with them racist, homophobe, and any other name that will halt argument, all the while having brown people outside doing their lawns, how can you honestly make statements of fact when you have nothing other than second hand and anecdotal evidence?

    All I can say is go back to your comfortable living rooms, watch the game on your big screen HD tele, continue to live in a bubble but do us all a favor and STFU!

    • Brucehenry

      Funny you misspell the name of your alma mater.

      Also if you have lived in the US for 20 years and the ANC took power in 1994 you apparently have no more firsthand knowledge of life in ANC-era SA than anyone else.

      • Alpha_Male

        Excuse me for typing to fast and not proofreading, Rand, better? Also my wife is a native, we’ve been back many, many, many times since the ANC has taken over and I can guarantee you sir that I have a much greater knowledge than you, of course being a typical American, the world revolves around you, you know better about everything than anyone else and it’s much better to re-direct than face the facts. Show me some proof that SA is better off now, under the ANC, than it was before!

        • Brucehenry

          Please excuse my suspicion. Anyone can, and many do, claim to be something on the internet that they are not. I apologize since you are obviously sincere.

          The proof that I have is that 90% of the population of SA is no longer subject to being deported to Bantustans or forced to carry internal passports or subjected to the indignity of signs reading “Non-Europeans and Dogs Not Allowed” in public accommodations.

          I’m sorry you and your wife lost your former positions of undeserved hereditary privilege in the Old Regime, but them’s the breaks.

          • Alpha_Male

            Have you ever been to one of the Stans mate? Transkie, Boph, Venda, Ciskei? They were never nice, I’ll admit, but since the ANC has taken over, that money they were getting in direct payments has dried up, put in the pockets of the ANC thugs who now run the country, crime, violence, living conditions there are almost unbearable!

            Again I wont defend apartheid, but I would caution you, while you sanctimoniously sit there watching the BIG 10 championship or some other of the 1,000 offerings on your nice HD television, that the world is not as simple as you think! Look at the rest of Africa, and look at what SA was, I know it makes you uncomfortable, but even you, in the rarified air of upper middle class privilege, must examine the hard proof of what was and what is eh?

          • Brucehenry

            You make a lot of assumptions about me and my life that other commenters here could correct you on if they care to. Neither here nor there, of course, but do you not have an HD TV and resent those who do, or something? WTF?

            This debate isn’t whether or not SA is a First World country. It never was, except for the 10% of the population that was of European descent. For everyone else it was always a shithole, and an oppressive government-run shithole to boot.

            You “won’t defend apartheid” but it’s the end of apartheid that was largely Mandela’s accomplishment. Since you disparage Mandela’s memory, tell me, given that apartheid was doomed to end eventually, what was your preferred alternative?

            Whites lament that SA is not like it used to be. Guess what? That was unsustainable. It was always going to end, and rightfully so. What has followed has been a hell of a lot better than we saw in Mozambique or Angola, Zimbabwe or Namibia. Thanks largely to, yes, Mandela!

          • jim_m

            Bruce doesn’t have privilege. He is a self loathing whitey, who decries whatever privilege he is supposedly been given.

          • jim_m

            You’re right. Chico claims to have been on the Joint Chiefs and to know the disposition and readiness status of every US military unit on the globe. And the sad truth is that he is just a sex tourist. People do lie about who they are

          • Commander_Chico

            I’m in Qatar now on a mission. It’s rough to pick up. Even Badoo is blocked. Women are all in black abayas, or fat western wives, or captive Asian domestic servants.

            Life is just a long sex tour, if you have balls.

          • Retired military

            That lets you out Chico. You cant even answer questions. You know questions like

            1. Do you consider Oprah racist since she called for the deaths of millions of non black people because SHE FEELS that they don’t like her because she is black.?

            2. Why is it that Oprah,the Lamestream media, Reid, Pelosi, and other major dems have called people racist simply because they oppose Obama’s
            policies. Yet when they oppose those same policies when espoused by Bill, Hillary. Reid, Pelos, Gore, Kerry, etc etc they weren’t considered racist then?

            3. Why are people called racist terrorist anarchist when Al Franken who did the same thing wasn’t called Racist? Do you feel that it is because he is a democrat and the people doing the call just playing the race card because that is all they have?

            4. Why are people called racist anarchist terrorist when they called for the delay of all or part of Obamacare and Obama who is unconstitutionally doing this not called a racist anarchist terrorist? Do you feel that it is because he is a democrat and the people doing the calling are just playing the race card because that is all they have?

            This despite being asked multiple times and with you saying

            “As I said before, try answering what people say, and not try to put words in others’ mouths, debate goes better” -

          • Commander_Chico

            Easy answers, as I have answered before:

            1. No

            2. Wrong

            3. I don’t know

            4. I don’t know

            http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/scale_small/0/7383/1813616-cotton.jpg

          • alanstorm

            “The proof that I have is that 90% of the population of SA is no longer
            subject to being deported to Bantustans or forced to carry internal
            passports or subjected to the indignity of signs reading “Non-Europeans
            and Dogs Not Allowed” in public accommodations.”

            So, improvement in one or two instances equals improvement everywhere?

            You getting a good cherry harvest?

          • Brucehenry

            So 90% is “one or two instances”?

    • Commander_Chico
      • jim_m

        Actually, if you wanted to demonstrate that their economy boomed you might show a graph that backs that up. A booming econmy is one that is growing. Showing a point in time comparison to other nations does not establish that as a fact.

        Also, cumulative GDP growth as a percent is easy if your GDP is really low. And since Mandela was President form 1994-1999 your graph shows nothing about how he affected the SA economy.

        Care to post something relevant or do you just want to lie to people? For all I know your claim may be true, but your posting bullshit to support it doesn’t fill me with confidence that you are telling the truth.

  • Henri le Riche

    I believe Mandela was a good leader, but I also believe in the FULL truth.

    Why was he sent to jail? For treason and giving orders to murder. Thinking he died at 92, it’s amazing to think the Apartheid government looked after him so well.

    Even the lies about his cell, is just that. A lie. Most of his jail life on the island, he lived in the supervisor’s house on that island. (This is never mentioned by the left media, because it’s goes against the narrative.) Again the ignorant is duped into believing lies, to paint a rosy tomorrow…READ: http://praag.org/?p=12244

    Mandela had pleaded guilty to 156 acts of public violence including mobilizing terrorist bombing campaigns, which planted bombs in public places, including the Johannesburg railway station. Many innocent people, including women and children, were killed.
    Source: The State v. Nelson Mandela et al, Supreme Court of South Africa, Transvaal Provincial Division, 1963-1964, Indictment.

    THE ANC’S VICTIMS WERE MOSTLY CIVILIANS:
    1981 – 2 car bombs at Durban showrooms
    1983 – Church Street Bomb (killed 19, wounded 217)
    1984 – Durban car bomb (killed 5, wounded 27)
    1985-1987 – At least 150 landmines on farm roads (killed 125)
    1985 – Amanzimtoti Sanlam shopping centre bomb Dec 23 (killed 2 women and 3 children)
    1986 – Magoo’s Bar bomb (killed 3, wounded 69)
    1986 – Newcastle Court bomb (wounded 24)
    1987 – Johannesburg Court bomb (killed 3, wounded 10)
    1987 – Wits command centre car bomb (killed 1, wounded 68)
    1988 – Johannesburg video arcade (killed 1 unborn baby, wounded 10)
    1988 – Roodepoort bank bomb (killed 4, wounded 18)
    1988 – Pretoria Police housing unit, 2 bombs (wounded 3)
    1988 – Magistrate’s Court bomb (killed 3)
    1988 – Benoni Wimpy Bar bomb (killed 1, wounded 56)
    1988 – Witbank shopping centre bomb (killed 2, wounded 42)
    1988 – Ellis Park Rugby Stadium car bomb (killed 2, wounded 37)
    Late 1980s – numerous Wimpy Restaurant bombs (killed many, wounded many)

    The ANC also made explosives disguised as children’s toys. Mandela was a violent, Marxist, terrorist. http://youtu.be/9PDX3-Qkx6Y

    • Brucehenry

      Wow, that’s awesome how they could indict Mandela in 1963 for all these attacks which took place in the 1980s.

      Now list all the atrocities committed by the apartheid government in the years leading up to the Sharpeville Massagre of 1960, which is when Mandela gave up on King-Ghandiism and left the path of non-violence. Oh, that’s right, you can’t, because they were a DAILY fact of life for 90% of the population and most weren’t even documented.

      I’d like to think that if my country was ruled by a privileged minority that subjected 90% of its population to the horrors of an unjust system like apartheid I’d do something more than sing Kumbaya or just wring my hands chanting “woe is me.”

      Hilarious that the same people who constantly make empty boasts and threats about “Second Amendment remedies” will condemn a man who took up arms against a government so oppressive it was a pariah to the world.

      Also, what a surprise that an “old SA soldier” would condemn his former enemies who cost him his job, and defend the old system. Just like Pinochet’s soldiers will claim all the “disappeared” in Chile were commies and D’Aubisson’s henchmen justify the murder of nuns and archbishops in El Salvador as anti-Marxism measures. So it’s OK to oppress 90% of the population as long as the people leading the opposition to your oppressive rule are “Red,” I guess. Good to know.

      • Henri le Riche

        I’m stating facts. Like i said. I like Mandela as a leader.

        Why don’t you give me all your sources then because like most people you seem more clued up, than the people that saw things with their own eyes.

        Typical sheep. Watch TV much? lol

        So you think the thousands of murders under the ANC regime is ok committed against the small minority?

        Probably next think you’ll say is, what murders?. My reply. Best is just to stay in your little bubble and watch more TV.

        So you happy with Maki Skaskona’s death by your Marxist pals?

        I saw guys like you in SA. You quickly ended up with a tyre around your neck. (Then on TV, no mention….)

      • Henri le Riche

        In life you get two types of people. One with life experience and the other with opinion only. You sound like a quasi couch book “intellectual”.

        So, forget who I am. Take it from Rian Malan, an anti-Apartheid activist and writer.

        End of the day people that support injustice, cannot say they fought against injustice. Then they are nothing but a bigot. So you agree with the injustice now happening under the ANC government of South Africa against the small white minority? If you don’t know, or your answer is yes, then you’re an ignorant bigot.

        So back to Rian Malan….

        http://www.politicsweb.co.za/politicsweb/view/politicsweb/en/page71619?oid=251075&sn=Detail&pid=71616

        • Brucehenry

          That was an interesting link, demonstrating that Mandela was allegedly a member of the Communist Party over 50 years ago, then going on to relate how he decided to abandon the path of non-violence, or at least simultaneously to use both non-violence and an armed struggle to achieve his goals. So?

          If indeed Mandela joined the Communist Party, and if you say so that’s fine, why didn’t he govern as a Communist when he came to power? Why weren’t all industries nationalized, why weren’t white-owned farms confiscated, why weren’t millions of the former elite murdered or forced into exile?

          Could it be that he was, indeed, operating under the old adage “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”?

          BTW, the commenters tear this article apart, and malign the author as a hack and a poseur, in the comments. I have no opinion about him myself having never heard of him before today.

          So a former “SA soldier,” who wants me to forget who he is/was, recommends an article that tells me little that matters and is beside the point. Got it. Oh, and this old soldier “likes Mandela as a leader,” but wants me to know he was a commie over 50 years ago because I’m ignorant. Or something.

          Never mind I’m not claiming any special knowledge. Just remarking that, for all the talk about terrorism and communist party membership his governance was remarkably un-Stalinist, now wasn’t it?

          • Henri le Riche

            Man, no point in trying to debate with you then as your books imprinted some weird ideas in your head. You obviously have your indoctrinated opinion and feel it’s ok to judge me because of your pre-conceptions being an ex-soldier during those times. Says more about you than me it seems.

            end of discussion. Met guys like you in my life. Not worth the time of day.

            http://WWW.HENRILERICHE.COM

        • Alpha_Male

          Thanks for your service mate, my father in law served in the SADF in late 60′s through early 80′s fighting the Cuban mercenaries and other SWAPO communists, amazing how much American support they received then.

          Being a dual citizen and having spent the majority of my life in the States, which I consider my homeland and a country I love, my passport is American, one thing you soon come to realize is that pontification is the American pastime.

          I’ve noticed, from reading this and other blogs, people like Bruce never let reality and truth get in the way of the narrative. The fact that the ANC is a communist organization, replete with thugs and terrorists, that they are turning Johannesburg and Cape Town into Monrovia and Kinshassa, is secondary to the glory of ending apartheid. These are the same kind of people who cheered Hitler for ending mass unemployment in Germany following the Treaty of Versailles. The German people went back to work but at what cost?

          Most Americans have no clue and the security and prosperity that has been secured for them allows such pontification to occur, free of backlash. This is the greatest country in the world, it’s just frustrating to see all those that have the privilege of living here not have a bloody idea about how the rest of the world works.

          • Brucehenry

            Yes people who wanted apartheid to end were just like Nazis. People who applaud the end of apartheid, and who eulogize the man who embodied that movement, are just like Nazis. What a kooky thing to say.

            It seems to me that someone who served in the armed forces of a regime that was based on racial superiority theories and which oppressed millions is just a teensy weensy tiny bit more like a Nazi than one who opposed that regime. But that’s just me and my HDTV talking. What do I know?

            Yeah, my security and prosperity was secured for me by guys like my father and uncles, who served in the armed forces of a nation that actually, you know, FOUGHT Nazis, not one that behaved like them.

          • Alpha_Male

            I know and people cheered Stalin as he liberated 90% of the population from Czarist Russia, people such as yourself probably cheered Uncle Po as he liberated 90% of the ppl of Cambodia from the monarchy.

            You see mate what you fail to understand is the irony in replacing one horror with another. No one has questioned that apartheid was a failed system, it’s that people with first hand experience have questioned whether or not you should be lauding Mandela as some kind of Christ like figure.

            The use of Hitler was an attempt at an analogy to emphasize the fact a bad individual brought about the end of a corrupt and non working system, replacing it with one that was worse. The only thing that occurred, with the ANC takeover was the proverbial fox was put in charge of the henhouse. Of course I understand that’s against the narrative, after all racism is bad, the ends justify the means and the end results be damned.

          • Brucehenry

            OK I get your point. Your clumsy attempt to Godwinize the thread is forgiven.

            I don’t think I’ve said anything to compare Mandela to Christ. I HAVE said he helped end apartheid and create a new South Africa in which the 90% of the people who were formerly oppressed by a racist regime are no longer oppressed by that minority.

            I’ve also said that the situation in South Africa is better than it is in other formerly racist-ruled countries like Zimbabwe and the former Portuguese colonies, And it is, isn’t it, even (or especially) for whites? And that this is to Mandela’s credit.

            BTW the use of the “mate” thingie sounds artificial and makes me think I was right to be suspicious of your “first-hand knowledge” after all. In my experience, people who live here 20 years, even Aussies, New Zealanders, and South Africans, don’t toss off that word every five minutes. I’ve known several South Africans. I don’t believe I’ve ever heard any of them use that word at all.

            Call me suspicious, whatevs.

      • Henri le Riche

        You will notice I “sign” my stuff with my name. That is how confident I am. If I am not, I keep my mouth shut.

        I suggest you do the same, but also from experience, any person with a fake name and profile, can say things from “what they read”.
        Experience (1) versus hot air opinion (0) You say a lot but if you’re man enough you’ll sign it with you real name and pic.

        Soldiers are good judge of characters and taking you judge me, I’ll return the favour.

        Experience taught me, those who can’t back up their statements with their true identities are usually cowards too. I’m no coward, but I know one when I see one….You can smell BS miles away :-)

        Cowards that have big stories to tell, but when the bullets starts flying, they run for the nearest hide-out, and screw over their buddies. Sounds like you :-)

        • Brucehenry

          Whatever, he-man. Bruce Henry is my real name, genius.

          Yes you’re such a good judge of character who can smell BS a mile away that you can tell I’m using a fake name and profile.

          Except I’m not. Hilarious.

          Spare us all the steely-eyed “I’m an ex-soldier” schtick. Who gives a damn? If you want to be proud of your service to the apartheid regime more power to you. If you expect me to think you’re awesome because you got paid by racist monsters who ran a Supremacist government you just keep on expecting.

          • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

            Except of course that your accounts are in your daughters name…

          • Brucehenry

            As I’ve explained before, I don’t use computers in my work. I know just enough about computers to surf the web and comment here. My daughter helped me set up my email account when I first got the account 10 years ago. It’s not that hard to figure out, Genius.

            And by my “profile” I assume OnnRee means my Disqus profile, which is in MY NAME without the capital letters or the space.

            Don’t you have anything to do besides screw with me?

  • ljcarolyne

    No love loss on Mandela, may Obama join him soon – they were such lovers.
    I’m playing country Christmas music and putting up Christmas lights to spite the Obama Regime. Obama will be history soon, not to remembered anymore. Nothing he can do about that – It is written:

  • Brucehenry

    It’s been a cold and rainy couple of days in NC, so I don’t feel like I wasted my time too badly here, except for this:

    I saw this same crap when MLK died, with troglodytes like the ones on this thread mewling about, “Oh sure he did some good but let’s not forget he was a commie pinko bastard and a tool of the Russkies!”

    Couple of decades later and they’re all “King was a conservative! Content of his character! Why are you liberals racists by mentioning race all the time like King would have hated?”

    I have no doubt that in 20 years these same Neanderthals will be co-opting Mandela’s legacy and claiming that freedom from apartheid was a conservative idea that liberals opposed or delayed because argle bargle. Hell, as I note in this thread, it’s already begun at National Review!

    • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

      Show.
      Proof.

      • Brucehenry

        OK, genius:

        http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Wolves/king_jr-communist.htm

        http://blog.heritage.org/2012/01/15/martin-luther-king%E2%80%99s-conservative-principles/

        http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/365631/nelson-mandela-rip-deroy-murdock

        The first one is about King as a “commie.”

        The second shows how conservatives try to co-opt King’s legacy.

        The third I’ve already posted once here and shows how at least one Mensa member at NRO is already attempting to do the same to Mandela.

        The prediction is my opinion, but I think it’s a safe bet.

        • jim_m

          Pointing out that King’s message had parts that are broadly accepted in conservative circles is not co-opting his legacy. Especially so when you take into account the 4th paragraph which lists a number of ways in which King was decidedly not from a conservative mold.

          Nice try, but your ideology does not suffice as a replacement for truth.

          • Brucehenry
          • jim_m

            No it doesn’t. I have pointed out that simply saying that parts of what King espoused are closer to conservative ideas is not co-opting his legacy. It is a simple fact that the left has long since repudiated his belief that people should be judged by their character rather than the color of their skin. Judging people by their race is a core tenet of leftist ideology.

            It wasn’t that the right co-opted his legacy, it’s that the left abandoned it.

          • Brucehenry

            Case in point, Jim M.

            As I said, when King died conservatives reminded us of his commie connections. When a couple of decades had passed, they began claiming that “parts” of his message were “closer to conservative ideas.” After a while it was often straight “King was conservative.” Not always, but often.

            Conservatives pretend that that one line about ‘the content of their character” is the only thing King ever said. Never mind he was killed while supporting a strike to unionize public employees — garbage workers.

            They’ll do the same to the ghost of Mandela. If you doubt me, wait 10 years and see. They’ll cherry pick a quote of his, twist it out of its context, and then use it as a club to beat liberals as “the real racists.”

          • jim_m

            As I said above, the left seems bent on making Lincoln a lefty. While that does seem to mesh, especially when one considers his actions to suppress dissent and control the media. That is definitely a lefty trait today.

            So what you complain about, is done routinely by your side as well. It would do you good to get outside of your glass house now and again.

          • Brucehenry

            Where are your links showing examples of “the left” making Lincoln a lefty? Or, as someone might demand:

            Show.
            Proof.

          • jim_m

            Good lord. Just look up anything about Lincoln being gay.

            Sorry if I currently have restricted ability to gather links. Google is location sensitive so being in Bologna, everything comes out in Italian, which I neither speak nor read. Nice city though. I highly recommend climbing the Asinelli tower. It’s very cool for only 3 euro. Although climbing 97 meters high on ancient wooden stairs can be unnerving.

          • Brucehenry

            No, that’s fine, but here’s a hint: Conservatives can be gay, too. Just ask Larry Craig, Ted Haggard, or any number of self-loathing Republicans who’ve been outed the past 10 years.

          • jim_m

            Except that Lincoln wasn’t and ignorant leftists look at what was normal behavior among men during his time and compare it to modern standards and then declare that he was gay. More lefty revisionist history.

            Yes, of course conservatives can be gay. Go over to gay patriot’s blog if you have any questions about that. (he’s pro gun too!)

          • Brucehenry

            Oh, maybe this is where we pinkoes get the idea!

            http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/abrahamlin395631.html

          • Retired military

            Where are your links showing examples of “the left” making Lincoln a lefty?

            https://www.google.com/#q=%22lincoln+was+a+liberal%22
            217000 hits. And that is with Lincoln was a liberal in quotes.

            Also from Huffpo
            http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/30/president-obama-abraham-lincoln_n_1392504.html
            “The first Republican president, President Lincoln, who, by the way, couldn’t win the nomination for the Republican primary right now,” Obama said, ”

            http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/03/09/472939/-Reclaiming-our-Liberal-Forefathers-Lincoln-and-TR

            Abraham Lincoln was a liberal. So was Teddy Roosevelt. They were also Republicans. The Southern Democrats who were pro-slavery in the 1850s and pro-segregation in the 1950s were right-wing conservatives

          • Brucehenry

            Conceded

        • jim_m

          And the dems are doing their best to paint Lincoln as a leftist. Your point seems to be that this is only wrong when someone else does it.

        • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

          None of which appeared here, dullard.

          • Brucehenry

            Nobody said they did.

    • jim_m

      I think you could already get a good argument over which was more effective, constructive engagement or leftist boycotts.

      • Brucehenry

        Is a “food argument” like a more sedate version of the scene in Animal House?

        • jim_m

          Typo corrected

      • Brucehenry

        Well, what’s more effective in dissuading Iran from its quest for nukes, constructive engagement or tough sanctions and the threat of military action?

        What course of action do you feel should be pursued?

        • jim_m

          The difference here is that in Iran, you are dealing with a nation that is a threat to those around them. SA was never such a nation. So the correct answer is that Iran, as a nation that believes in the raw use of power and that people who fail to use power are weak and therefore vulnerable to exploitation, is a nation that should be dealt with via tough sanctions.

          As for constructive engagement and SA. I think that on moral issues such as this one may have some success. There is also some truth to the fact that if you sanctioned SA the people who would have been hurt the most would have been the poor you were claiming to want to help.

          There is no such downside with Iran. Sanctions against them will only hurt them and not the neighboring states you seek to defend.

          But then again, if you are obama you want Iran to nuke Israel so whatever you can do to help them get the bomb is a plus.

          • Commander_Chico

            The parallel with Iran is appropriate.

            SA was a threat to its neighbors – not only did it maintain imperial rule in Namibia for many years, it regularly invaded Zambia, Angola, Botswana and Mozambique.

            The apartheid regime also acquired nuclear weapons, with the help of those paragons of democracy, the Israelis.

          • jim_m

            Chico once more blames the jooooooos! For something. Tell us chico, is there anything you don’t blame on the jews? Other than things you blame on Bush?

          • Commander_Chico

            Do you work for the government of Israel? The government of Israel is not the Jews, nor is Nutandyahoo “the leader of the Jews” as you have said.

            It’s an historical fact that Israel helped SA with its nuclear weapons program, even offered to sell nukes to SA:

            http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/israel_south_african_nuclear_bomb_documents.html

  • Aaliyah

    Umm so mandela & Castro are “terrorist” & who exactly are the Europeans ??? Liberators?? NO the whites that committed GENOCIDE & ENSLAVEMENT of indigenous people are the true DEMONS & MONSTERS!!!

  • ackwired

    Mandela is not remembered for his alliances, but because he forgave those who had persecuted him and his race. In
    these days when our politics has devolved into dualism at it’s worse, a
    dualism dominated by bitterness, negativity, fear, and blame, it is good
    to stop and remember a man who, in spite of the fact that he
    had more reason than any of us to embrace his bitterness and fear, chose
    to suppress the negative and embrace love, compassion, understanding
    and reconciliation, and because of that choice, is remembered as one of
    the great leaders of his time.

    • Commander_Chico

      Well said. The quality of forgiveness is underrated.

  • Commander_Chico

    This gif pretty much sums up the Wizbang comments section:

    http://i.minus.com/ibdamgXc3o6Aps.gif

    • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

      Then perhaps you should move on to something you find more to your tastes.

      • Commander_Chico

        You’re such a barrel of laughs, Rodnick.

        • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

          The problem is all inside your head I say to thee
          The answer is simple if you take it logically
          I’d like to help you in your struggle to be free
          There must be 50 ways to leave the Wizbang
          Fifty ways to leave the Wizbang

  • http://twitter.com/JohnSydenham John Sydenham

    Still living in the 1970s? Mandela was a great man but his true legacy can be seen at: http://antiracistfront.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/nelson-mandela-great-man-and-great-anti.html

  • Robert Watt

    So Nelson Mandela was a racist, evil, man that the Liberal Left of U.S. made him into a saint for crazy reasons. That actually make sense.

  • Henri le Riche

    By Joseph Pharah from WND

    I noticed over the weekend that lists of quotes from Nelson Mandela had gone viral on the Internet.
    None of the lists I saw included any of these – which say more about the man and the myth than you could have learned by reading all the reports in the international establishment press.
    1) “If there is a country that has committed unspeakable atrocities in the world, it is the United States of America. They don’t care for human beings.”
    2) “Long live the Cuban revolution. Long live comrade Fidel Castro … Cuban internationalists have done so much for African independence, freedom and justice. We admire the sacrifices of the Cuban people in maintaining their independence and sovereignty in the face of a vicious imperialist campaign designed to destroy the advances of the Cuban revolution. We too want to control our destiny. … There can be no surrender. It is a case of freedom or death. The Cuban revolution has been a source of inspiration to all freedom-loving people.”
    3) “[T]he people of Asia and Africa have seen through the slanderous campaign conducted by the USA against the socialist countries. They know that their independence is threatened not by any of the countries in the socialist camp but by the USA, who has surrounded their continent with military bases. The communist bogey is an American stunt to distract the attention of the people of Africa from the real issue facing them, namely, American imperialism.”
    Experience more of Joseph Farah’s no-nonsense truth-telling in his books, audio and video products, featured in the WND Superstore
    4) “Under a Communist Party government, South Africa will become a land of milk and honey. Political, economic and social rights will cease to be enjoyed by whites only. They will be shared equally by whites and non-whites. There will be enough land and houses for all. There will be no unemployment, starvation and disease. Workers will earn decent wages; transport will be cheap and education free.”
    5) “Yasser Arafat was one of the outstanding freedom fighters of this generation, one who gave his entire life to the cause of the Palestinian people.”
    6) “The cause of communism is the greatest cause in the history of mankind!”
    7) “Those who feel irritated by our friendship with President Khadafy can go jump in the pool.”
    8) “There’s one place where (Fidel Castro’s) Cuba stands out head and shoulders above the rest – that is in its love for human rights and liberty!”
    9) “The victory of socialism in the U.S.S.R., in the People’s Republic of China, in Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Poland and Rumania, where the living conditions of the people were in many respects similar and even worse than ours, proves that we too can achieve this important goal.”
    10) “Communists everywhere fight to destroy capitalist society and to replace it with socialism, where the masses of the common people, irrespective of race or color, will live in complete equality, freedom and happiness. They seek to revolutionize society and are thus called revolutionaries. Those who support capitalism with its class divisions and other evils and who oppose our just struggles to end oppression are called counter revolutionaries.”
    11) “In our own country, the struggles of the oppressed people are guided by the South African Communist Party and inspired by its policies. The aim of the S.A.C.P. is to defeat the Nationalist government and to free the people of South Africa from the evils of racial discrimination and exploitation.”
    By the way, I did find one quote from Mandela that I really like. I don’t think he meant it. I do. In fact, if he got his wish on this one, the international media’s reporting about Mandela’s death would have been much different.
    “A critical, independent and investigative press is the lifeblood of any democracy. The press must be free from state interference. It must have the economic strength to stand up to the blandishments of government officials. It must have sufficient independence from vested interests to be bold and inquiring without fear or favor. It must enjoy the protection of the constitution, so that it can protect our rights as citizens.”
    Amen to that last one.

    You know what they say: Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

    henrileriche . com

    • Brucehenry

      And yet you have stated repeatedly on this thread that you “like Mandela as a leader.”

      So tell us, Henri, what it is you like about Mandela as a leader. Is it that, despite the quotes that noted centrist and Voice of Reason Joseph Farah has gathered and you have blockquoted, Mandela didn’t govern as a communist?

      Maybe it’s because he DIDN’T nationalize the farms, the banks, and the mining industry, as whites feared he would do? Maybe it’s because he DIDN’T foment the wholesale massacre of whites as fearmongers predicted and as happened in other formerly racist countries? What, exactly, makes you “like Mandela as a leader,” as you have stated repeatedly you do?

    • Commander_Chico

      .

      What would you have done? Nelson Mandela and American Conservatives by Newt Gingrich

      https://www.gingrichproductions.com/2013/12/what-would-you-have-done-nelson-mandela-and-american-conservatives/

      Yesterday I issued a heartfelt and personal statement about the passing of President Nelson Mandela. I said that his family and his country would be in my prayers and Callista’s prayers.

      I was surprised by the hostility and vehemence of some of the people who reacted to me saying a kind word about a unique historic figure.

      So let me say to those conservatives who don’t want to honor Nelson Mandela, what would you have done?

      Mandela was faced with a vicious apartheid regime that eliminated all rights for blacks and gave them no hope for the future. This was a regime which used secret police, prisons and military force to crush all efforts at seeking freedom by blacks.

      What would you have done faced with that crushing government?

      What would you do here in America if you had that kind of oppression?

      Some of the people who are most opposed to oppression from Washington attack Mandela when he was opposed to oppression in his own country.

      After years of preaching non-violence, using the political system, making his case as a defendant in court, Mandela resorted to violence against a government that was ruthless and violent in its suppression of free speech.

      As Americans we celebrate the farmers at Lexington and Concord who used force to oppose British tyranny. We praise George Washington for spending eight years in the field fighting the British Army’s dictatorial assault on our freedom.

      Patrick Henry said, “Give me liberty or give me death.”

      Thomas Jefferson wrote and the Continental Congress adopted that “all men are created equal, and they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, among which are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”

      Doesn’t this apply to Nelson Mandela and his people?

      Some conservatives say, ah, but he was a communist.

      Actually Mandela was raised in a Methodist school, was a devout Christian, turned to communism in desperation only after South Africa was taken over by an extraordinarily racist government determined to eliminate all rights for blacks.

      I would ask of his critics: where were some of these conservatives as allies against tyranny? Where were the masses of conservatives opposing Apartheid? In a desperate struggle against an overpowering government, you accept the allies you have just as Washington was grateful for a French monarchy helping him defeat the British.

      Finally, if you had been imprisoned for 27 years, 18 of them in a cell eight foot by seven foot, how do you think you would have emerged? Would you have been angry? Would you have been bitter?

      • Henri le Riche

        For me the issue is not Nelson Mandela. It’s his organisation that has a lot of blood, and still do, on their hands. Just this time, it’s ignorance. For me, that’s wrong.

        Especially Mandela said, he is against black and white racism. Also that never again shall one group oppress another. This was nice ideals. I agree, but that was 1995. Now is 2013 and it’s not the South Africa people think.

        Once Mandela is now gone, the world will see the ANC, or South African government for what it is. An organisation of which angered Mandela and something he couldn’t do much at his old age about. What I just told you is a fact. I didn’t read stuff, I experienced it.

        http://WWW.HENRILERICHE.COM

        • Commander_Chico

          I agree that Mandela likely has moderated the corrupt impulses of some in the ANC like Zuma.

          Time will tell. They either will or won’t kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.

          It does not take anything away from Mandela, though.

          • http://www.rustedsky.net JLawson

            Time will tell, indeed.

            We seem to want our leaders to be superhuman, without flaws or mistakes. But they’re human – sometimes very much so – and the people taking the leader’s vision can turn a hell into a heaven or a heaven into a hell.

            Mandela did a lot of good. It remains to be seen if the people will use that good to build a shining future on, or use the past to justify their own thefts and corruption.

          • Commander_Chico

            Mandela (and DeKlerk) made the best transition of a united South Africa for the white population possible.

            The only alternatives were mass genocide of blacks (likely not tolerated by the world), eventual ethnic cleansing of the whites (present now, but slow), or a constantly- threatened white breakaway state from SA.

            It will probably be rough for the whites for many years – part of that is because the apartheid government did a poor job building the educational infrastructure of the black population. Sow, reap.

          • Henri le Riche

            Agreed. I believe if a man does good, no matter what he’s past, he/she should get credit. In the same breath, I feel the whole story should be told. We got masses of ignorant people out there that will fight when you give them facts, because their half-truths, with their limited info, will see as 100% fact.

            Here is more truth:

            FT -

            http://wp.me/p2f2Kv-1RI

            Channel4 Station in UK -

            http://wp.me/p2f2Kv-1RD

            One thing is a certainty. Now the “fun and games” will start, and the left knowns the writing is on the wall for the corrupt, racist, and nationalist government of South Africa. They just had to get past the “Mandela era”, and when this all subsides, the world (ignorant masses) will see…..(and some probably still not as Yuri explained – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeMZGGQ0ERk

          • Commander_Chico

            Yep, it’s going to be rough. Rougher in some parts of SA than others. Wouldn’t Cape Town be the best place for whites to be?

      • Brucehenry

        What Newt said.