Obama’s Jackbooted Thugs Withdrawing From Bundy Ranch in Nevada?

It is possible that Obama’s oppressive, jackbooted thugs are withdrawing from their attack on a Nevada rancher after stealing over 500 of his cattle. Government officials are saying that the situation has become “too dangerous” for its operatives and the situation is spiraling out of the government’s control, so they are quitting their efforts to destroy an American citizen’s livelihood… at least for now.

The situation had exploded into extreme measures by Obama’s Bureau of Land Management, a bureaucracy that wanted to destroy the livelihood of 67 year-old rancher Cliven Bundy whose family have been cattle ranching in that same area of Nevada bordering with Utah since the late 1800s.

BLM has been slowly destroying the cattle industry in that area for quite some time and Bundy is the last rancher left. But Bundy refuses to acquiesce to the government’s lies and jackbooted tactics. He and his family have been there for over one hundred years and he refuses to leave.

Why is the government trying to get him to quit the land? Because the government claims that with his cattle Bundy is harming the environment for the purportedly “endangered” desert tortoise.

This is an animal so “endangered” that the U.S. government itself has been euthanizing hundreds of them because there are too many for the land to support.

But the BML is indulging the lie that this tortoise is “endangered” and using that as an excuse to send hundreds of para military agents armed to the teeth and ready to kill anyone in their way to “save” an animal of which they themselves are killing hundreds.

In fact, the double lie about this turtle is that its population has exploded while living alongside Bundy’s cows the entire time. So it is clear that the cattle aren’t bothering the turtles at all.

The real nub of this matter is that Obama and his thuggish government has indulged a bacchanalia of land theft that has made other president’s land seizures pale in comparison. Bundy’s hundred-year-old ranch is in the way of Obama’s land theft and thus he was set up for destruction.

Dana Loesch also cleared up another issue with Mr. Bundy: he isn’t a “deadbeat” on paying government fees.

Those who say Bundy is a “deadbeat” are making inaccurate claims. Bundy has in fact paid fees to Clark County, Nevada in an arrangement pre-dating the BLM. The BLM arrived much later, changed the details of the setup without consulting with Bundy — or any other rancher — and then began systematically driving out cattle and ranchers. Bundy refused to pay BLM, especially after they demanded he reduce his heard’s head count down to a level that would not sustain his ranch. Bundy OWNS the water and forage rights to this land. He paid for these rights. He built fences, established water ways, and constructed roads with his own money, with the approval of Nevada and BLM. When BLM started using his fees to run him off the land and harassing him, he ceased paying. So should BLM reimburse him for managing the land and for the confiscation of his water and forage rights? – See more at: http://danaloeschradio.com/the-real-story-of-the-bundy-ranch/#sthash.QWGDBUHs.dpuf

So, last week, Obama’s BLM swooped in with its armed, para military thugs and began to steal the rancher’s cattle, killing them and giving Bundy nothing for it all.

But once these lawless thugs began to move in, word got out and Americans responded. As each day closed more Americans who oppose Obama’s lawlessness began to show up, many of whom were armed and ready for anything.

Now, after a week of its illegal activities, Obama’s government men are BLM director Neil Kornze said.

So, now the government is backing off. But only for now. It is clear that the BLM still fully intends to destroy Bundy’s life and they are only beating a strategic retreat to prevent what may have turned ugly.

But this is where we are, America. We are now fully at a time when no government official is given legitimacy by any citizen. The “law” is not respected by the average American because our “law enforcement” officials have proven to have no respect for the law nor any respect for we the people.

We have police officers willfully violating the rights of the citizens they are supposed to “serve and protect.” These so-called officers of the aaw have become increasingly militarized and since every military needs an enemy, we, the people, have become that enemy.

Worse, we have politicians of every stripe and at every level of government using their positions not only to enrich their cronies, but to enslave the people under unjust, fiat “laws” that are as fluid as the air about us, winds that change any time a politician feels the need to change them.

On top of that we have a massive regulatory state oppressing every area of our lives filled with unelected, un-accountable and increasingly armed “officials” all of whom see the people of the United States as vassals who have no rights whatsoever.

Herbert Hoover was right when he said, “Where there is a lack of honor in government, the morals of the whole people are poisoned.”

We have arrived to a point where the average American does not imbue authority with any legitimacy. As Thomas Aquinas wrote, “Lex mala, lex nulla” (An evil law, is no law). And at this point, few people think we have any laws that aren’t essentially evil.

Who can’t imagine that it will soon be open season on anyone who works in government? If they have no regard for us, our property, even our very lives, why should we have regard for them?

The situation in Nevada is just one more example in the growing state of anarchy, one created by a rapacious, illicit government.

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  • 914

    Kick their ass the hell out and D.C. too.. Shoot any drones on sight. If they try anything else its on to DC

  • Vagabond661

    So illegal grazing bad. Illegal immigration good.
    Securing walk up open air memorials good. Securing borders bad.

    You know, it’s too bad those weren’t illegal cows. They could graze, get free health care, educate their calf and get a driver’s license.

    • DaveTheLoveable

      Thought this post was hilarious, until it occurred to me just how spot on it is…

    • James Barker

      So generational federal welfare is ok if done by the Bundy family?

      • Vagabond661

        Apparently being ill informed on the subject matter is ok by James Baker.

        • hwy505

          Barker

    • Bill_M

      And vote.

  • jim_m

    The only reason that the government is backing off in any way is because they realized that despite shutting down all cellphone and other communications in the area they could not completely suppress all reporting on this story.

    Expect the fascists in the obama admin and their illegal bureaucracy to go back and figure out how they can better silence Americans in the future.

    • James Barker

      Do you know what Fascism means? Read “The Fourteen Defining Characteristics of Fascism” by Dr. Lawrence Britt and you will see Obama’s administration only exihibits one of the 14 charateristics. Number 4, we have “widespread domestic problems” and still spend a “disproportional amount of government funding” on the military.

      • jim_m

        Yes, that worked for fascism in the 1930′s. The world has changed and fascism is no longer solely a feature of the nationalist right. It is now almost entirely a creature of the left.

        Also, this is about political issues and that list contains a large number of social issues that government does not control. Even so I could argue that the US is experiencing 2,3,6,7,9,12,13,14 under obama.

        • James Barker

          Putting onerous labels on an administration serves only to produce hatred and does not promote progress for any of us. If we have laws that need changing, our constitution allows that, and if we have an administration that is bad, we vote them out. Once the votes are counted we abide by the majority decision. Supporting candidates that only represent a minority view seems idiotic. Compromise and find candidates we can all live with but once elected they deserve the respect of the office. That is the patriotic thing to do.

          • jim_m

            Yeah, let’s just ignore the whole vote fraud thing and the politicization of the law and selective enforcement and prosecution of political enemies. We’re all one big happy family. Fat chance. You don’t like being called an apologist for fascists? Stop being one. You don’t like me calling your Dear Leader a fascist? Make him stop being one.

  • Jack Zimms

    The problem is many think the issue is a rancher not paying
    a fee. The real issue is the Federal government abusing the endanger species
    law to drive out ranchers so they can use the land to make certain politicians
    rich. Jim Crow laws were design to allow government to abuse people rights. Now
    the government is using loopholes in laws not for the purpose of why the law
    was written but to abuse people’s rights.

  • LiberalNightmare

    Maybe Bundy should hire a few illegal aliens. Then the feds would be too busy chasing the immigration police around to bother with the cows.

    • warnertoddhuston

      Actually, he SHOULD hire all illegal aliens. That way Obama will declare his ranch a “sanctuary ranch” and they’ll shower him with millions in tax dollars!

  • jim_m

    Fact is that there no longer is any law. There is only what the obama admin wants and how many rights they will trample and how many people they are willing to kill to get their way. With control of the DOJ everyone in this criminal administration knows that they can do anything to any citizen and they will be protected by this criminal regime. We are under occupation by a kleptocratic dictatorship.

  • LiberalNightmare

    The amount of firepower that was brought to bear for this, over what is essentially a trespassing charge is somewhat disturbing.

    • jim_m

      Bundy was obstructing the will of the government, as such he became an enemy of the state. obama sees the primary threat to his Presidency as being the people of this nation and as a consequence he will use the same sort of force against these enemies as FDR found necessary to defeat the Axis powers.

      • stan25

        The government under the derlict FDR, used the same tactics to clean out the so-called Hoovervilles surrounding the Washington DC area in the 1930s. All those people wanted was the bonus money that was promised to them to go and fight in WW1. Of course the great Dugout Doug was more than happy to comply to this order.

      • James Barker

        I believe in the constitution. The courts said Bundy was wrong. You are advocating that crime be ignored. This is one reason crime is so rampant in our country, too many people believe they are above the law of the land.

        • jim_m

          If the BLM had received a right to evict Bundy I have not
          seen anyone claim that. Most evictions require a specific court order.

          There is sufficient unclarity around the demands of the BLM and why he was still paying the State of Nevada for the grazing rights. At some point he should not have to pay both and the government was trying to double dip.

          The government came in on questionable grounds, seized his property without court order and threatened the lives of his family.

          You might want to live in a fascist state, but the rest of us do not.

          • James Barker

            The BLM was acting on a court decision. I want to live in a country that respects rule of law. The Bundy family knew they had lost in court and decided to make their own law. You want this to be decided on the court of public opinion. That will only serve to produce hate and division.

    • Commander_Chico

      Good point. You’d have to be a lawyer and examine loads of deeds, documents and regulations to determine who is right in this. But the way they are handling it is extreme. It is essentially a trespassing case that should be in civil court.

      This is the most objectionable thing I’ve seen about this story:

      http://shtfplan.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/first-amendment-area-2.jpg

      The cordoned-off “First Amendment Area.” The whole USA is a First Amendment area.

      • jim_m

        The whole USA is a First Amendment area.

        Not anymore.

    • James Barker

      And yet it was not enough to succeed in removing the cattle from public land?

  • Jimmy Hoffa

    Should have also filed this under dumbass poor white trash too. Wealthy rancher is ordered by a court to stop stealing and when he wants to keep the million+ he’s stolen, he gets a bunch of dumbass poor white trash to defend him by using the same worn dog whistles. Very ingenious. “Jackbooted thugs”? LOL Very informative article. No, really!

    • alanstorm

      I’m sure you have citations to demonstrate his “wealth” and document this “theft”, right? You simply forgot to cite them?

      I’m sure that if the government decided to unilaterally “renegotiate” your – I mean, your Mom’s – mortgage agreement, you would be fine with that.

      Anybody else out there remember when the liberal mantra was “Question Authority” instead of “Bow to Authority”?

      • Brucehenry
        • jim_m

          Doesn’t matter who Bundy is. The fact is that you will smear him and defend the over the top actions of a fascist regime. As I have said before you will defend every step toward fascism and once again you prove me right.

          • jim_m

            Bruce leaps into the gap to defend the corrupt kleptocrats

            Rumor has it that Reid wants the land for a giant solar farm that would be supplied by a Chinese company and, presumably, subsidized by the federal government. Reid’s son is apparently a participant in the deal.

            Nevada’s Governor was essentially backing Bundy. This was a naked land grab so that obama and Reid could enrich themselves and their supporters. But Bruce will always defend the spoils system of government and defend the corrupt and criminal people we have in DC right now.

            Like the Fascist obama admin, Bruce blames the victims for trying to stand up for their rights. http://www.powerlineblog.com/admin/ed-assets/2014/04/BLM-Claims-Bystander-Attack-Dog-Save-Bundy-Ranch.jpg

          • Brucehenry

            You’re so predictable.

            I first heard about this watching FOX and Friends at the gym. Came home to find Warner’s over-the-top screed crying “Wolf!” from hither to yon and looked up a few others. I can safely assume you heard about this brouhaha from some cesspool like Breitbart or Powerline, and you are so willing to swallow whatever swill these clowns throw you that you discount any possibility other than this guy is a hero and the “patriots” who are leaping to his defense are modern-day Minutemen.

            But I decided to google “Cliven Bundy wrong” to find a dissenting view and sure enough found one or two — among the many howls from the deranged Right. I posted them in the spirit of providing the geniuses here in the Wizbang comment section an opportunity to consider another angle. Should have known you would dismiss any and all information that contradicted your preconceived notions, Jim, but you ain’t the only one here, so I take some comfort in that. I did my part to further the discourse. Have you?

          • jim_m

            Not as predictable as your defense of fascist tactics and your idiotic denial that that is exactly what you are doing.

          • James Barker

            Do you know what Fascism means? Read “The Fourteen Defining Characteristics of Fascism” by Dr. Lawrence Britt and you will see Obama’s administration only exhibits one or two of the 14 charateristics. Number 4, we have “widespread domestic problems” and still spend a “disproportional amount of government funding” on the military. Some would also argue number 13 but I do not agree.

          • jim_m

            Of course you don’t agree. See my response elsewhere.

            But let me be specific here:

            2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
            obama has yet to assert himself and take a stand for human rights. He has never missed the opportunity to miss the opportunity to stand for human rights.

            3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause

            tea Party, Koch brothers. Nuf said.

            6. Controlled Mass Media

            JournoList. The media has been co-opted by the left and they are willing accomplices in suppression of information.

            7. Obsession with National Security

            NSA scandal. obama has spent more effort in illegally spying on US citizens than on anything else.

            8. Religion and Government are Intertwined

            Most of left wing policy is driven by global warmism. This is a religion. Leftist ideology is every bit as tolerant as radical islam which is why lefties find so much in common with them.

            9. Corporate Power is Protected

            The recent GM episode should show us the use of government power to protect the interests of corporations over those of the public

            12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment

            The DOJ has politicized justice and made every decision on prosecution on of political and racial calculation. obama has continually inserted himself in local issues of crime, sometimes in outrageously petty ones such as the idiot black professor in Cambridge.

            13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption

            Nothing else is the hallmark of the obama admin but the rampant corruption and cronyism. The Bundy deal is about cronyism. Solydra was cronyism. There simply isn’t enough space n this blog to detail the pervasive cronyism and corruption of this admin.

            14. Fraudulent Elections

            This has been an issue for some time but the left has been caught many times now committing election fraud and dem operatives have been going to jail.

          • James Barker

            Obama has always shown support and advocated laws for human rights. He has not put the Tea Party or Koch Brothers in concentration camps. If he controlled the mass media there would be no Fox New Channel and many programs on the networks and CNN would not be broadcasting. The NSA programs to spy on us was not started by the Obama administration. Calling the scientific evidence that supports Climate Change a religion is an affront to my faith and belief in God.

            Now you are just spewing hateful rhetoric. Do you really think “Most of the “studies” curricula at universities are little more than left wing indoctrination courses.” is not distain for intellectuals? Solydra was an attempt to ween our country of the fossil fuels controlled by other countries and most of those tax breaks went to individual tax payers like me. I saved many thousands of dollars, in taxes, when I installed photo-voltaic on my roof.

            THIS IS ONLY SERVING TO DIVIDE “WE THE PEOPLE.”

          • jim_m

            I did not claim that he put anyone in concentration camps. I simply pointed out that he and the dems have made people enemies and scapegoats.

            Nor did I say that he controlled the media, but said that they had been co-opted.

            “Studies” professors are not intellectuals, they are ideologues. There’s a difference. I respect people that have real ideas and don’t shout their opposition down. Shouting down the opposition happens routinely on campuses today and is an exclusive tactic of the left.

            Solydra was a successful effort to divert millions of dollars into the pockets of obama donors and little else. It did not deserve funding of any sort as it was a business disaster from the start..

            So you haven’t even answered a single one of my contentions. You have tried several times to move the goal posts. But by all means keep on apologizing for fascism. If you are really successful your turn to be oppressed will come along eventually. It always does.

        • LiberalNightmare

          << Anybody else out there remember when the conservative mantra was "Rule of Law" and not "I'll obey the laws that suit me and ignore the ones that don't"?

          Anybody else out there remember when Obama stopped enforcing federal immigration law?

          Anybody else out there remember when Harry Reid changed the senate rules about filibustering?

          Anybody else out there remember the 35 unconstitutional changes made to Obamacare?

          I dont think that "Rule of Law" is really the point that's going to help your argument there Brucie.

        • Commander_Chico

          Yeah he might be a nut but the response is extreme, see Waco 1993.

          • Brucehenry

            Why it’s almost as if some elements of the nutjob militia movement Right WANT to create another violent incident like Waco or Ruby Ridge so they’ll have another “martyr” like Randy Weaver.

          • jim_m

            That’s it Bruce. It’s the right wing that is forcing the federal government to abuse the rights of US citizens. If only everyone would buckle to fascist oppression the world would be a better place.

            What a pathetic apology for fascism you make. No one is forcing the federal government to do these things. And no one is forcing you to make desperate apologies for their fascist actions. However, it would be a welcome change for you to simply admit that there is nothing the government can do that you will not find an excuse for.

          • alanstorm

            Bruce, it sure looks like someone wants to create just that scenario. He’s commonly known as “Uncle Sam”, but he’s looking more and more like “Uncle Ernie” every day.

        • warnertoddhuston

          Isn’t it interesting that Bwoocie is only interested in affording rights to people HE thinks aren’t “nuts”? If HE thinks they are “nuts,” why, who cares if they have their rights violated? This is why leftists are all scumbags.

          • jim_m

            Bruce is just searching for an excuse so he can defend creeping fascism. Any excuse will do in that event.

          • Brucehenry

            The question is whether his rights are indeed BEING violated or if he is just claiming victimhood and all you rabblerousers are jumping on the bandwagon.

          • jim_m

            Ooo! Rabblerousers. Next we will be denounced as hoarders and wreckers.

          • Brucehenry

            Warner and his fellow rightwing scribes are rabblerousers. You, Jim, are just a rube like most of their readers.

          • jim_m

            No. I am simply not the apologist for fascism and that irritates you.

          • Brucehenry

            Not the least bit irritated. I’ve had a nice weekend. The weather is fine in NC, but the pollen count is high!

          • jim_m

            Even Chico has drawn the parallel to Waco. But you will deny any resemblance. The overriding thread throughout all your posts is that the government can do no wrong and that there is nothing which will cause you to criticize its actions.

          • Brucehenry

            Well I agree that tanks and helicopters should hardly be necessary to resolve a land-use dispute between a rancher and the BLM. Perhaps the government is displaying such overwhelming force in response to the calls from “militia” groups to — violently “if necessary” — thwart enforcement of perfectly legal court orders?

            I’m no fan of militarization of police. I simply posted the links I posted to show you guys that there were other angles to this story. Especially how the whole dispute started.

            I think it’s safe to say that EVERY SINGLE ONE OF YOU, with the possible exception of Chico, have received every bit of information you have on this story from conservative, or rightwing, media. Until I posted those links. And most of you probably didn’t read them.

            You’re welcome.

          • jim_m

            Dude, the heavy weapons were out there long in advance of any resistance from the public so your attempt to, once again, blame the public for the fascist excesses of obama fails.

          • Brucehenry

            Yes you’re probably right that the show of force was/is excessive and may be provocative and counterproductive. That doesn’t lend any validity to the claims of Bundy to be right about the original land use issue.

          • http://www.rustedsky.net JLawson

            We’re running about 3500 around here. Funny to see cars raise clouds of dust as they drive down a paved street.

          • Brucehenry

            Here’s a local Nevada “apologist for fascism.” Funny how reasonable she sounds.

            http://letstalknevada.com/message-friends-cliven-bundy-blm/

          • Jwb10001

            Thank god there are no rabblerousers on the left.

          • Ray Haze

            Thank God Barry Goldwater was right and you ran the right into the ground and have nothing left but ignorant, fear fed poorly educated , religious fundamentalist mostly white trash. =)

          • Ray Haze

            still sucking off the top % for the trickle that never came.

            Who thinks we have a left or right left anyway ? All owned by the same banks and corporations you poor peons for life.

          • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

            Spam.

      • JWH

        I can’t speak to overall wealth, but according to CNN, the herd in question is 900 animals, with a value of about $1,000 a head. That’s $900,000 worth of assets. That’s not Warren-Buffett level rich, but depending on the family’s other assets, we’re talking about somebody who’s more well off than the average.

        http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/12/us/nevada-rancher-rangers-cattle-showdown/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

        • jim_m

          Most farmers/ranchers have nearly their entire net worth tied up in their business. Sure, he can get ~$1M for his herd, but he would have to pour most of that back into new livestock in order to keep the business going. Farmers and ranchers are far from the millionaires that hateful lefties make them out to be.

          • alanstorm

            Exactly.

        • http://www.rustedsky.net JLawson

          Jim’s got a point – what they were doing was basically grabbing money out of his bank account.

          There’s a reason why cattle rustling was a crime – you’re stealing a man’s money when you take his cattle.

  • JWH

    I’m trying to figure out where I stand on this myself. I suspect Bundy is something of a nutcase. But he may also be right. Or he could be wrong.

    • Brucehenry

      NOOO, it’s TYRANNY!!! Jackbooted THUGS!! FASCISM!!! WHAT ARE YOU SOME KIND OF COMMIE!!!

    • JWH

      Update:

      I’ve poked around the Web to find some information about the case. The nuggets I’ve seen.

      1) Bundy grazed his cattle on the land for several decades. BLM changed rules because of the endangered tortoise. Rules change included an increase in grazing fees.

      2) These matter has been litigated extensively. Most recently, a fine was upheld, and the cattle were to be seized pursuant to a court order.

      3) Bundy doesn’t want the court order enforced, hence the people with guns chasing away federal agents.

      When I cut through the partisan BS, here’s what I see: Bundy had is day in court, and he lost. Now, he and his friends are defying a lawful court order.

      By analogy, imagine that Jim_M and I own adjacent properties, and we dispute ownership of a 100-foot wide strip of land at the border of our properties. We’re unable to resolve the dispute between us, so we take it to court. Our attorneys both float legal theories and factual arguments, but the court finds in favor of Jim_M. In response, I declare that the court is invalid, and I have law on my side, and I fence in the land and put armed guards on it.

      Who would be in the wrong there?

      • jim_m

        Your hypothetical is invalid because we know you would be wrong from the outset.

        • Brucehenry

          Jim can’t defend a position against reason and fact so he makes a joke.

          Your buffoonish propensity to believe ANY claim put forth by rightwing rabblerousers, and your imperviousness to any appeal to slow down and gather all the facts, is noted.

          Nor are you alone. There are many of you out there. Keeps me awake at night sometimes.

          • jim_m

            You will note that I haven’t taken a position on Blunt. What I have done is take a position on the over the top tactics of the government.

            On the other hand you have taken the position that any amount of force is reasonable as long as the government has a fig leaf to cover itself with and that the government’s motivation to use the land for enriching themselves and their friends is perfectly OK with you and you will defend their right to be corrupt to the bitter end.

          • Brucehenry

            You apparently know absolutely nothing about this case, beyond what you’ve been told by the puppetmasters who fill you with unreasoning fear of your own democratically elected government.

            For one thing, it’s not an eviction. He’s being prevented from using land the Federal government has owned since 1848. And he HAS been served with several court orders, all of which he has ignored. Thirdly, the assertion that “rumor has it” that Harry Reid and the Heathen Red Chinee have something nefarious to do with this doesn’t constitute proof.

            There are many reasonable voices on this. I can’t help it if you only believe The Voices — the ones in your head and the ones on the Radical Right Radio.

            http://www.thewildlifenews.com/2013/08/01/19-years-later-cliven-bundy-ordered-to-remove-trespass-cattle-or-face-seizure-by-blm/

          • jim_m

            You’re right. It was not an eviction, because an eviction would have meant removing his cattle and not stealing them at gun point.

          • Brucehenry

            An “eviction,” O Educated One, would mean removing him forcibly from land he owns. This is not the case here.

            Another reasonable voice, this one giving Bundy more credit than he deserves, in my opinion:

            http://www.ldnews.com/opinion/ci_25553666/dont-let-cliven-bundys-nev-land-fight-become

          • jim_m

            So according to you people evicted from apartments are not actually being evicted because they do not own the property? Then please explain why an eviction notice is necessary.

          • jim_m

            Plus an eviction would still mean that his property was not being confiscated. Regardless of what you call it, this amounted to little more than cattle rustling.

          • Brucehenry

            They have leases, usually. The land in question here is undoubtedly public, federally-owned land (which Bundy does not dispute).

            And if this had come out of the blue you might have a point. But he was told in 1998 what would happen if he continued to defy court orders, and chose to continue his course.

          • jim_m

            And he had paid for grazing rights through the state of Nevada prior to the formation of the BLM. That sounds an awful lot like he was renting at least rights to the land.

            Next.

          • Brucehenry

            citation required. The land in question was bought from Mexico in 1848 in the Treaty of Guadeloupe Hidalgo and has been federally-owned ever since.

          • jim_m

            Citation given I have seen better details elsewere but cannot remember which site it was on.

            At some point he didn’t pay the BLM grazing fees for his cattle – but did pay the State of Nevada an unspecified amount.

            The other site left the impression that he had paid the state of Nevada an ongoing fee.

          • Brucehenry

            I saw that too, and also that “at some point” he was paying the COUNTY for the grazing fees. But the county disputes this, and the state AFAIK would not accept payment for fees owed to the Federal government.

            Whatever impression the site left on you, he owed the fees to the feds and hasn’t paid the feds for twenty years.

          • jim_m

            The land wasn’t bought, it was ceded by Mexico in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo after the Mexican-American War. Go learn some history.

          • Brucehenry

            Nuh-uh, YOU, O Educated One. The terms of the Treaty were that the US Federal government pay $15,000,000 for the cession of the parcel, which it must be said was quite a bargain.

          • jim_m

            We didn’t PAY anything. We forgave Mexico some debt.

          • Brucehenry

            Nope. Your education was woefully deficient.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Guadalupe_Hidalgo

          • jim_m

            Um, yeah, that was where I got my comments from. Try reading the article next time dim wit.

          • Brucehenry

            Your wiki article also states that the Mexicans were paid $15,000,000 for the land, genius.

            Your parents got robbed.

          • jim_m

            What I said:

            We didn’t PAY anything. We forgave Mexico some debt.

            What the article said:

            While technically the territory was purchased by the United States, the $15 million payment was simply credited against Mexico’s debt towards the U.S. at that time

            So you obviously did not fully read either my comment or the Wiki article.

          • Brucehenry

            Whether the money was paid to the Mexicans or to the Mexicans’ creditors, the US government paid $15,000,000 for the land and has owned it ever since. The state of Nevada has NEVER owned it.

          • jim_m

            No. my understanding is that the federal government actually owns over 80% of Nevada. By that estimate it is barely a state at all.

          • Brucehenry

            And that federal ownership of most of the common land in NV is enshrined in that state’s constitution, written in 1864. And Bundy’s ancestors began grazing on that federally owned land in 1877.

            If Bundy has paid fees to NV and NV has cashed the checks, they owe him a refund with interest. Oh, but wait, he HASN’T and they haven’t.

          • jim_m

            Again, my primary complaint was with the over the top actions by the feds and I have said that several times already. Right or wrong on the land ownership, they were wrong in how they dealt with it.

          • Brucehenry

            I can agree that they have acted in a high handed manner and several things they have done — tasering people, deploying military-style weapons — were excessive and provocative.

            That being said, if this guy is going to simply refuse to comply with lawful court orders for 20 years, and has vowed armed resistance, perhaps a show of overwhelming force is warranted? Maybe not, but the presence of armed “militia” nuts and these “Oath Keeper” crazies isn’t helping matters. It seems to me they’ll be glad to see Bundy as dead as Randy Weaver — then they’ll have a martyr.

          • jim_m

            The feds attracted these people by their heavy handed actions. If they had approached this differently they wouldn’t have this problem. But like all things, you give them a paramilitary outfit complete with tanks and helicopters and they will seek an excuse to use them. Unfortunately, the BLM’s only target for using such material is the American public.

            I would argue that it is the feds that wanted Bundy dead and no one else.

          • Brucehenry

            But what signal would it send if any guy with a deer rifle could simply refuse the lawful court order of a federal judge? What level of force would be acceptable, given that this guy is simply NOT going to comply with court orders?

          • jim_m

            I’d say that it was less than what was used.

        • JWH

          You enjoy being an insolent twat, don’t you? But you don’t want to answer my question: If a person disagrees with a court’s ruling, is that person entitled to resist that ruling by force of arms?

          • jim_m

            No he is not. Then again the federal government did not have any orders to round up the 10% of the cattle they collected that were not belonging to Bundy either.

            The feds bungled this with their heavy handed thuggery. But then that is what you want, a federal government that asserts control over the people by violence and intimidation.

          • alanstorm

            Parameters.

            Every citizen must obey every court order, no matter how oppressive or insane?

          • jim_m

            According to JWH Martin Luther King Jr was a criminal and a dangerous lunatic who should ave been kept in prison to stop him from continually violating the law.

          • jim_m

            The people are actually entitled to do just that.

            Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government

            However, such actions should be only taken after careful consideration

            Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

            I don’t think that anyone is suggesting that this issue rises to such a degree but the idea that all laws and dictates of government are to be obeyed is flat out wrong.

          • Brucehenry

            The Declaration is not a legal document.

            Good thing no one IS suggesting this case rises to such a degree. This guy has had twenty years to litigate this case and he has repeatedly lost. He has been given more than due process and has failed, repeatedly, to comply with lawful court orders.

            Your MLK analogy is also a fail since King several times was willingly jailed as a consequence of his civil disobedience.

          • jim_m

            No it is not a legal document. However, the preamble , which lays out the philosophical stand on government and its relationship to the governed, is highly relevant. JWH is claiming that people have no right to resist tyranny. I am pointing out that we do.

      • http://www.rustedsky.net JLawson

        Re #1 – there doesn’t seem to be any problems with the tortoise and the cattle coexisting. In fact, as far as the tortoise is concerned the cattle are providing manna from heaven. (Or at least a level above the tortoise.) Seems they… eat the cow pies, and enjoy the liquid in them..

        (Can we all get a chorus of ‘Ewww’?)

        But hey, I’m not judging the little shit-eaters… you drag around your house on your back and you’d get hungry also.

        But what I find amusing is that if Bundy had paid the increased usage fees, there wouldn’t be any problem. Hmm. Maybe they were going to be used make lots of little McDonalds’ Shitburger stands with a crawl-up window…

  • Brian_R_Allen

    …. double lie about this turtle is that its population has exploded while living alongside Bundy’s cattle ….

    In no small part because the toothless turtle cannot masticate and prefers that other critters do its chewin’ and then do their pooin’ somewhere handy so the feral-gummint’s turd-eater turtle may free-load on the pre-chew’d poo.

    Small wonder then that the jack-booted feral fiends got it all arse backward!

    Eh?

  • Retired military

    Funny how this whole thing ended just hours after the Reid/Chinese connection became public.

    • http://www.rustedsky.net JLawson

      For what it’s worth – that may not have been a factor. Not that it wouldn’t sound good…

      6. IS HARRY REID WORKING WITH THE CHINESE TO FORCE THE BUNDYS OUT?

      The facts don’t support it.

      Reid and his son, Rory, were both deeply involved in a deal with the Chinese-owned ENN Energy Group to build a $5 billion solar farm in Laughlin, Nevada. But that is roughly 177 miles away from Bundy’s 150-acre ranch in Bunkerville, Nev., and 213 miles from the federally owned Gold Butte area where Bundy ‘s cattle graze, according to Google Maps.

      It’s worth noting that Rory Reid is the former chair of the Clark County commission (Clark County is located near the Gold Butte area). He left in 2011 to work for a Las Vega law firm representing ENN.

      But despite the Reids’ best attempts to secure the land for ENN, and despite the Bureau of Land Management expressing concerns that “trespass cattle” could complicate plans to use land in the Gold Butte area for “offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development,” it was all in vain: The Chinese company eventually shelved the project in June 2013 when it failed to find a customer. The deal is over and the proposed construction will not happen.

      Of course, that’s from the Blaze network, so (depending on your political slant) it may or may not be true.

      http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/04/13/is-harry-reid-involved-seven-answers-to-seven-questions-youre-probably-asking-right-now-about-the-nevada-rancher-situation/

  • Patrick_McHargue

    Libertarians, of which I am one that ran for elective office, have been telling people this for years. If you don’t want this, people will have to elect representatives that will end it.

    Also, I was heartened by the turn out of not-so-regular citizens that rose in the support of Mr. Bundy. I hope that their example is not lost on the officials that bothered to learn about it.

  • ackwired

    “The BLM arrived much later, changed the details of the setup without
    consulting with Bundy — or any other rancher — and then began
    systematically driving out cattle and ranchers.”

    Since the BLM was formed in 1946 this is obviously not strictly an “Obama jack booted thugs” issue. The jack booted thugs have served many administrations, the same “jack booted thugs” serving both halves of the duopoly.

    • jim_m

      You’re right. The Clinton admin was very fond of using the jackbooted thugs to advance their agenda. (q.v. Elian Gonzalez and the Branch Dividians)

      But the obvious response is that the BLM only changed the rules recently (under the Clinton admin, oddly enough) and only decided to use this ridiculous level of force under obama.

      Nice to see that you will always find an excuse for the excesses of this criminal administration.

      • http://www.wizbangblog.com David Robertson

        jim, so you were opposed to a 6-year-old boy being reunited with his father because …

        • jim_m

          I was opposed to a six year old being denied asylum that his mother gave her life to obtain and against the government acting like the communist thugs they were supporting.

        • Jwb10001

          Was it really necessary to raid the house like there were Nazi hiding there with high powered weapons and explosives?

      • ackwired

        How many ranchers in the area did the BLM run our of business before Bundy?

        • jim_m

          It actually has been mentioned that other ranchers have gone out of business in the area but I have not seen a number.

          • ackwired

            Per Warner Todd Huston, “BLM has been slowly destroying the cattle industry in that area for quite some time and Bundy is the last rancher left.”

  • http://www.wizbangblog.com David Robertson

    Let me see if I got this straight. The BLM decided to enforce two judicial rulings made by two federal judges, and that is supposed to be a bad thing?

    Also, I know of no evidence that any of the cattle were killed.

  • Patrick

    BLM NO MATCH FOR THE RANCHERS ,there big boys with big guns one and one there MOTCHO MEN when surrounded by ranchers there were cowards they failed to deliver 600,000 acres to DIRTY HARRY FOR HIS CHINES SOLAR FARM WORTH 5 BILLION,HARRY WANTS TO BE LIKE THE COKE BROTHERS EXCEPT THE COKE BROTHERS BUILT THERE OWN EMPIRE,HARRY WANTS TO STEAL IT FROM THE TAX PAYERS OF THE USA

    • LiberalNightmare

      MOTCHO MOTCHO MA-ANS! We GONTO BE DA MOTCHO MANS!

  • Commander_Chico
    • http://www.rustedsky.net JLawson

      Real bad idea… but at least his finger isn’t anywhere near the trigger.

      Hmmm. Jersey barrier, with what looks like… 3-4 inches separation there? Rifle seems to be wedged into place… can’t imagine he’s got much of a field of view.

      You have any more context on that shot?

    • jim_m

      I call bullshit. Without knowing what is downrange of his rifle you cannot tell if he is pointing at BLM people or at a line of clay flower pots.

      Since the media have a long history of taking posed pictures and claiming that they are something that they are not I would demand to see the broader context before accepting any claim that this man was targeting a real person, let alone a federal agent.

  • Lawrence Westlake

    Bad demographics on every side of this fiasco. Government bureaucrats, twitchy types so common in the low density areas of the Mountain States, now the Internet/talk radio nutcases are on the scene, rabble rousing and such. These sorts of messes are how the Sharron Angles of the world become locally-elected politicians and how the Janet Renos of the world become infamous. Hopefully the sun will bake the brains of these mental midgets to the point where they all become catatonic. The concern here should be that nobody on either side gets hurt.

  • Retired military

    Reid tells News4′s Samantha Boatman his take on the so-called cattle battle in southern Las Vegas. “Well, it’s not over. We can’t have an American people that violate the law and then just walk away from it. So it’s not over,” Reid said

    ———-

    Yeah cant have Americans doing it. Illegal aliens can do whatever they want and Reid wont say a word though.

  • James Barker

    We all have the right to express our opinions in this country. My opinion is that any growing state of anarchy in this country is being caused by those that do not believe in rule of law. If the police are breaking the law take them to court. Start by using civil law and use that forum to progress to a criminal case.

    All any of the defenders of this man, Bundy, have is their own rhetoric and they spew hatred. They cannot stand that they lost the election and will not admit they are not a majority. If the current administration are Jackbooted Thugs” then why are they not continuing with the round-up. A few protestors with puny weapons, compared to what our government has, would not intimidate a Fascist government. All this does in foment hate and divide us.

    If the average American has lost power it is because they have let it be taken by the money that controls “our” elected officials. The many are the only force that can over-power the money but we have let them divide us ‘the people’. The few that control the government pit us off against each other. Conservative against liberal, dark skinned against light skinned, city dweller against rural folk, and you can see the evidence everywhere. Our media pushes sectors of the people in opposite directions. Teachers are required record student’s race on standardized tests, loan officers are required to guess race if the applicant refuses to declare it. My beloved wife taught me that when asked my race I say that “I am in the human race.” Are we not all brothers and sisters and our brother’s keeper?

    I know Mr. Bundy lost in court and that is that. We need to all work within the law to make the law better.

    • jim_m

      Wow. Substitute MLK for Bundy and you would fit right in in the Dem party in the 1960′s. Nothing like a little civil disobedience to piss off today’s left.

      • http://www.rustedsky.net JLawson

        Rather like dissent, in that matter…

        Dissent is patriotic when they’re the ones who are objecting. All you other people, STFU because you’re not allowed to disagree with the elite.

  • DavidPatrick

    Inbred violent dickweed terrorist shitwad teabaggers use women as human shields. You fuckers should be shot dead.

  • DavidPatrick

    Also, Mr. Inbred Piece Of Shit Constitution Hating Shitwad “Dana Loesch” gets something else wrong..

    “Bundy OWNS the water and forage rights to this land. He paid for these rights.”

    Except that in reality, the Taylor Grazing Act of 1934 – under which grazing permits are issued – says:
    “So far as consistent with the purposes and provisions of this subchapter, grazing privileges recognized and acknowledged shall be adequately safeguarded, but the creation of a grazing district or the issuance of a permit pursuant to the provisions of this subchapter shall not create any right, title, interest, or estate in or to the lands.”

    • jim_m

      Dana Loesch is a woman you fool. Beware of calling people stupid when you make ignorant mistakes like that.

  • DavidPatrick

    In summary: Warner Todd Huston is a lying scumshit piece of shit constitution hating retard who ought to shut his filthy stupid terrorist mouth.

  • guntherarschspiel

    The guy’s a deadbeat. Hopefully the he gets a bullet in the head along with the terrorists who are supporting him. At the very least they all deserve a cell next to Eric Rudolph and Ted Kaczynski, along with that county sheriff.

    • jim_m

      Thanks for showing us what the left really thinks: Murder any political opposition. You would have fit in well in Stalin’s Russia or Hitlers Germany.

      • guntherarschspiel

        This ain’t political opposition. This is a deadbeat who doesn’t want to pay his bills.

        • jim_m

          You got me there. I suppose small claims court will be a heck of a lot more interesting with the death penalty as an option (a lot of unpaid debt is settled there). Can’t let those debtors get away with it!

          Face it. You’re an intolerant ass, and this is less about his debt than it is about someone standing up to the dems.

  • Michael Lang

    Scratch little Brucie and you will find a jack-booted, strutting little fascist.

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