Why CC Holders Should Ignore Anti-Gun Signs Posted in Stores

They are popping up all across the country, little stickers on the front doors of businesses, restaurants and retail outlets informing concealed carry holders that they are not welcome to carry their legal firearm inside. But if you are a concealed carry holder you should ignore these attempts to curtail your rights. If you are legally armed, feel absolutely free to enter and patronize those stores with your firearm no matter what these anti-Constitution store owners want.

First of all, these stores have no right whatever to tell you that you aren’t allowed to observe your Second Amendment rights inside their establishments. No mere shop owner has the capability or the right to prevent Americans from enjoying their Constitutionally guaranteed rights.

This may sound like a contradiction for many conservatives. After all, most conservatives and gun owners are very supportive of rights in general and the right of private property owners to do what they want on their own property is no less important than our Second Amendment rights. So, how can conservatives and gun owners on one hand claim to support private property rights yet on the other feel it perfectly OK to tell the owner of that property that they cannot ban a CC carrier’s gun inside?

For one thing, the ship has sailed on the claim that owners of private property have free reign to do anything they want on their property. The Supreme Court has repeatedly, for instance, told business owners that they cannot discriminate against patrons based on their sex, race, creed et al. The law states that a mere store owner cannot hamper people’s civil and Constitutional rights just because they have private property rights. One right, in other words, does not trump all–or any single–other rights.

Therefore, it is perfectly logical to state that if a store cannot refuse to serve a gay or a person of a particular race or religion because this refusal violates their Constitutional rights, then a store owner cannot act to prevent a patron from observing their Second Amendment rights, either.

But, some may still be stuck on the whole idea that a private business has certain rights to say what they want allowed on their own premises. Here a quote from Thomas Jefferson reveals why a business has no right to summarily remove a patron’s Second Amendment rights.

In his Report on Navigation of the Mississippi, 1792, Thomas Jefferson wrote the following: “It is a principle that the right to a thing gives a right to the means without which it could not be used, that is to say, that the means follow their end.”

In other words, if a shop owner says he isn’t curtailing your Second Amendment rights by just keeping you from carrying in his shop, he is not correct. For telling someone they cannot have the tools (the gun, in this case) to observe their right then they are essentially barred from having those rights. This, incidentally, is a good argument against ammunition restrictions, too.

There is also a safety issue to consider. The whole reason that every state in the union has enacted concealed carry laws was to give citizens the means to prevent crime. A cc holder carrying his gun is just as much for the safety of those around him as it is for himself. If a store, then, is telling patrons not to carry their firearms, that store is inviting criminals to prey upon their patrons.

Here it is apropos to note that a restaurant in Durham, North Carolina was recently robbed at gunpoint even though it had its little “no guns” signs on its front door. Note that the sign only prevented legal, law-abiding citizens the right to protect themselves. It didn’t stop any crime–in fact it may have invited it.

Then there is the whole point of a concealed carry license holder carrying a concealed weapon. A concealed weapon is not visible to those around the carrier. Therefore, if no one else even knows you are carrying, this cannot possibly hurt the store. This means a shop owner’s whining about your gun is nothing else but a political act and his political ideology does not trump your legal right to carry.

Speaking of legality, if the state says you are legally allowed to carry your firearm, how is it that a shop owner imagines he has the right to trump even state law?

Many store owners, though, are telling gun owners that this is no big deal. An easy solution, they say, is that gun owners should just leave their guns in their cars. This is an entirely dangerous thing to do. Leaving a gun unattended in a car invites break ins and theft. If my car gets broken into and my gun stolen while I am in Starbucks shouldn’t the coffee shop be held liable? After all, they insisted I leave my gun in may car before I went in for some coffee, didn’t they?

In the end, gun owners who are legally carrying their firearms should feel free to ignore these little no gun signs. These signs do not hold any legal restrictions over your right to carry. Certainly as a gun owner you may realize that these businesses are telling you that they do not want your business and you may just refuse to spend your money with them. But if you don’t care what these shop owners think and you like their wares, then feel free to ignore their powerless little signs and patronize them with your gun.

So, yes, dear store owner. Your little sign means nothing to me. It has no force of law and your little sign cannot trump my Constitutional rights. I will ignore your sign and carry my gun into your establishment whether you like it or not.

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  • Dan Moore

    I tell the owner/manager that I, and my extended family, will spend our money at his competitors until the sign comes down. It is a matter of trust. If you don’t trust me I don’t feel safe around you.

  • Eduardo Blanco

    As a supporter of individual rights I have to disagree with the author. I support a persons individual right to carry a gun just as I support someone else who isn’t comfortable around guns. They should have the right to create rules on what is their private property.

    It’s kind of hypocritical to demand that someone recognize my rights by ignoring theirs.

    I will just choose to shop elsewhere which is my individual right.

  • James Glass

    Why would you, as a second amendment supporter want to give these businesses (who are so anti second amendment they post these signs) your dollars so they can donate to anti second amendment causes. Its my personal belief they have every right to regulate their customer base, as I have every right to deny them my dollars. I recently dropped Verizon Wireless service because of one of these signs being posted. I will not patron a business whose management does not recognize my rights.

  • Carl Stevenson

    In PA such signs have no force of law. All they can do is ask you to leave if they discover you’re carrying, if you don’t leave when asked, you could be charged with trespass.

  • Dennis211

    Here in PA we can ignore the signs….If the business owner does not want guns on their property they must approach the person carrying the gun and ask them to leave…..If the gun owner does not leave then they can be charged with trespassing, but they cannot be charged with any weapons violations

  • Jim

    On their property, their right to decide who comes on the property trumps my right to carry on their property. But at least in Texas, that little sign does not qualify as sufficient notice to concealed carry holders. They would need to make a specific request to not carry on their property, if that is their only notice, which they probably wouldn’t be doing because they wouldn’t know who was carrying. I would be less likely to visit any store that posts that though!

  • CaliforniaRightToCarry

    First of all, concealed carry is a privilege and not a right. Secondly, the one case which pitted the Second Amendment against private property rights ended up with the #2A on the losing end. Finally, it makes no sense to give your money to businesses who oppose your right to carry. You might as well be giving money to Nancy Pelosi’s reelection campaign.

    • cjohnson44546

      carrying a weapon, period.. concealed or not, is a right. Its a right that is infringed by the state and they give you a privilege to carry some chosen weapons with a license… its wrong, and unconstitutional, but currently “legal”

  • MKE gal

    As much as possible I refuse to give money to businesses which do not honor my civil rights.
    (A couple places like the post office & some hospitals are impossible to avoid.)
    Some places I can’t avoid I might carry anyway (only concealed, of course), and some places I can’t avoid maybe I don’t carry.

  • MKE gal

    However… I also think that any business should be able to refuse service to anyone, for any reason IF they clearly post at every entrance and on every advertisement to let people know who is & is not welcome to spend money there.

    Signs for doors should be at least 9″ square, blaze orange with large bold black letters/lines and standardized graphics, and posted no more than 2′ laterally from the open edge of a door (so it has to be ON the door) and the entire sign must be between 3′ and 6′ off the ground. That leaves enough room to ban more than one group, and to work around any other signs they have.

    For ads, keep the standard graphics, and require that the graphic be no smaller than a capital letter in the product or company name. (Or maybe no smaller than their own logo.)

    Do away with having some groups which are more special & more protected than others, like religious or skin-color groups are now, compared to people who simply exercise their civil right to bear arms.
    Either protect ALL civil rights from discrimination, or none of them.

    And no taxpayer-owned facility should be allowed to ban lawfully-possessed firearms unless (as with a court or prison) they have armed guards, metal detectors, and provide free secure storage while citizens are using the building. (Thank you, Utah!)

  • Carl Taylor

    If you’re doing your part right as a CCW holder, how in the hell would anyone know that you were armed? They have metal detectors at the doors next to their now CCW signs? Yeah, I didn’t think so. My motto: It’s better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not have it.

  • gramavegas2010

    In NV, they can ask you to leave and if you do not, then you are violating the law. Now, if you’re carrying concealed well enough, they won’t see your firearm and thus won’t ask you to leave. 😉

  • carlos

    “First of all, these stores have no right whatever to tell you that you aren’t allowed to observe your Second Amendment rights inside their establishments.”

    Sorry. This is dead wrong. You might make a case for them not serving you because you’re an NRA member or something. But carrying your weapon is an act. It’s one thing to say you won’t serve gays and be smacked down by the law, but the law won’t say anything if you kick them out for lewd acts. You can come in and have a burger, but leave your gay porn in the car.

    There is no discrimination against you, the person, as you are welcome without the gun. And your rights have not been violated since you can still carry to your hearts content elsewhere.

    You may as well try to make a case that someone can’t ask you to take off your muddy boots before coming into their house.

  • Jon Winters

    Those little signs mean I’m not going to spend my money there. I don’t want to bring my family into a free-fire zone without any armed good guys.

  • John Hunter

    If my rights & the rights of my family aren’t important to the owners, then, apparently my money isn’t that important to them, either. I’ll just take my business elsewhere & watch while they’re robbed out of business

  • James Clements

    In TN, gun buster signs, properly posted, carry force of law and is a crime to violate. I’m a CCW holder and a daily Glock carrier but I also respect property owners wishes as I expect them to respect my property. I simply don’t patronize business that are gun free zones.

  • Michael Zellhart

    While I understand some of your concerns, we must remember that we are under NO obligation to obey unconstitutional laws. I know some of you don’t want to push that issue, as it would be a costly battle. However, at some point that battle will have to be fought. Those of you saying that owners and patrons have a right to feel safe, as CCW holders that is scary to hear. The time that owners and patrons are most unsafe is when these signs are on display. Just in the past month Bojangles restaurants have been robbed 3 times since adopting this policy, a bbq restaurant also robbed shortly after placing their sign. The way I see it, you have 2 responsible options, don’t enter these soft targets or disregard the sign and carry concealed. Any other choice places yourself and family in a dangerous place with no way to defend against criminals.

    • jim_m

      It is all well and good to be all high and mighty and claim that you aren’t going to obey what you believe is an unconstitutional law. Just be aware that it remains the law and you had better be prepared to go to prison for your beliefs. There have been many unjust laws that even the SCOTUS has upheld. (I’m thinking of Dred Scott and the Runaway Slave Act as examples)

      Cloaking yourself in self righteousness does not mean that you won’t still find yourself on the wrong side of the law.

      Mind you, I think that these signs are stupid and are tantamount to painting a target on your business for criminals. It still doesn’t mean that violating the law is wise or that it is in any way helpful toward the end of extending gun rights.

      • Michael Zellhart

        It’s not self-righteousness, it’s just right. I stated that it is a risk, but I’d rather take a legal battle than a gunfight with nothing to fight with. I don’t blame anyone for not taking my chosen plan of action. The sign on a door is not a law, and my state does not place legal weight on them either. I have a US Constitutional right to bear arms, I have a State Constitutional right to bear arms, and I have a State license to carry concealed. If they want to argue that their sign trumps ALL of that, I am willing to take that fight on. Others may not, and I have no problem with that. I am single and have no children, which allows me to act on only my own accord. Someone witha family probably would have to think much harder about the consequences. Drop the attitude, I made no judgement of anyone else’s choices.

  • http://davidtinsc.tumblr.com DavidTinSC

    In South Carolina:

    SECTION 23-31-220. Right to allow or permit concealed weapons upon premises; signs.

    Nothing contained in this article shall in any way be construed to limit, diminish, or otherwise infringe upon:

    (1) the right of a public or private employer to prohibit a person who is licensed under this article from carrying a concealable weapon upon the premises of the business or work place or while using any machinery, vehicle, or equipment owned or operated by the business;

    (2) the right of a private property owner or person in legal possession or control to allow or prohibit the carrying of a concealable weapon upon his premises.

    The posting by the employer, owner, or person in legal possession or control of a sign stating “No Concealable Weapons Allowed” shall constitute notice to a person holding a permit issued pursuant to this article that the employer, owner, or person in legal possession or control requests that concealable weapons not be brought upon the premises or into the work place. A person who brings a concealable weapon onto the premises or work place in violation of the provisions of this paragraph may be charged with a violation of Section 16-11-620. In addition to the penalties provided in Section 16-11-620, a person convicted of a second or subsequent violation of the provisions of this paragraph must have his permit revoked for a period of one year. The prohibition contained in this section does not apply to persons specified in Section 16-23-20, item (1).

  • Spencer Williams

    People are arguing on here about when and where it is legal to carry. Sign or no sign I will carry wherever I feel unsafe. No one will know I am carrying unless there is a need for me to present my weapon to protect myself, then I will take my chances with the law. My dad always said it is better to be judged by twelve than to be carried by six!

  • FrontRowNews

    A business is PRIVATE property and can say.. GUNS NOT ALLOWED.

  • Saman

    In Mississippi, the law concerning the signs is the trespass law. There are two of them. You can be fined up to $500 and serve up to 6 months in Jail. The advice to carry against the wishes of the property owner is poor advice. I don’t like the signs but the property owners rights are as valid as mine. I will not do business with a private business with a no gun sign. There is a cuurent lawsuit on the signs being the reason for a mass murder. I will not mention where but if they win, these signs may be harder to post. If they post the signs, I believe they should have a viable armed guard in their business. Not a retiree guard on a walker. The Author needs to keep this opinion to himself.

  • Saman

    The Mississippi Law concerns Trespass with warning. If you are property owner, you can refuse entrance to your property for any reason. 2nd Amendment rights do not supersede property rights. They are equal in my opinion.

  • Dillon

    Lol because it doesn’t stop the people who want to rob or hurt others? It only stops the people who carry weapons to defend themselves from others lol.

  • Johnny Rich

    I completely disagree with your suggestion to go ahead and patronize the
    businesses. I will never knowingly spend my hard earned money at a
    place that doesn’t support the 2nd Amendment by allowing people to conceal carry and open carry. Even though 98% of the time I do conceal carry, I still will not patronize a business that bans open carry. Along with sending a letter of disgust, my way of showing them that I don’t agree with their policies is to not spend any of my money in their stores. To a corporation, profits and losses speaks louder than words and if you continue to spend money in their stores then you’re allowing them to get away with their idiotic policy while making a profit off of you.

  • Scott Wennemann

    I just dont give these stores my business. I am sure there are other similar businesses in the area that will allow me to exercise my constitutional rights.

  • cjohnson44546

    Sadly, many states, like TN, that little sign does have force of law…

  • buffalocharlie

    Wow! The author is encouraging CC permit holders to break the law. He claims the signs have no “force of law” but that varies from place to place and state to state….making such a suggestion is inviting such CC permit holders to possibly be charged with a crime and even lose their right to carry….not very bright. The author uses the following backwards logic to support his argument: “If my car gets broken into and my gun stolen while I am in Starbucks shouldn’t the coffee shop be held liable? After all, they insisted I leave my gun in may car before I went in for some coffee, didn’t they?” Well, no, they didn’t insist…you were the one who insisted you have to have a gun with you at all times, and they don’t want you to bring it in their store…I am sure they could care less where you put it. If you don’t want to enter a business that prohibits firearms unarmed, then don’t. But blatantly ignoring their policy is plain wrong. The proper way to address these issues is through our political process…gain support of sufficient numbers of citizens and perhaps you can get a law passed, or persuade a business owner to change their policy.

  • CritiKiL

    I’m trying to find the penal code that “must be posted on the building” for the ‘no guns’ signs to be valid. If this penal code is NOT shown, then a person with a CC has every right to enter the business. Can someone help me find that code? It’s almost ALWAYS on hospitals, government agencies and maybe some banks.

  • Ohiomike5150

    In Ohio, private business has the right to choose if they will allow or disallow CCW in their establishments. What WAS a felony… has been amended to be a misdemeanor charge if caught. That being said. My view is that I don’t think any person who is pro 2A should spend one nickel at ANY establishment that doesn’t respect the constitutional rights of all of us. I will go way out of my way (if necessary) to ensure that I don’t give my hard earned $$$$ to a business that posts signs. If all CCW/open carry folks did this there would be a lot of change happening quickly. I also write letters to the offending companies and their parent companies. I was surprised how effective this has been. Many times a company policy is to follow state law. Unbeknownst to them a rogue anti-gun manager decides to bad the 2A with signs. Many of those types of signs come down quick but sometimes it takes someone like you or me to enlighten them.

  • art57
  • art57

    What difference is it to allow this to go on when a Libtard can enter a Christian Bakery and demand a cake be made against their religion? THIS IS ABOUT OUR Constitutional Rights! I would think it trumps? Enough cow towering to this BS

  • beerandpolitics

    In Illinois a CCW permit holder is prohibited by law from entering an establishment with a clearly posted No Guns sign. If he is discovered, and the violation reported and confirmed by authorities, he will likely forfeit his permit.

  • Sean Kennedy

    For the love of god they’re not constitutional rights! They’re natural rights, at the least PROTECTED by the constitution not granted by it! This is an important distinction get it right

    • Scalia

      You are right, Sean. It is important that we understand that our rights are not granted by the government.

  • Joe Turcotte

    “Gun free zones” are open invitations to those with evil intent. It’s a guarantee that they will meet no resistance and be unopposed. It’s basically confirmation that this specific venue will be a shooting gallery. Almost every mass shooting has occurred in a “gun free zone” It is moronic to enforce such a rule against law abiding gun owners. Does anyone really think that someone intent on murder cares about breaking such a rule?

  • Robert Viehweger

    Yep, I’ll stay in Florida.. There may be a fuck ton of idiots here, but at least I can defend against them when and where I am..

  • Alex Yamach

    Total BULL!

  • cowebb2327 .

    You are simply incorrect. Any establishment posting Section 30.06 of TX penal code can deny carry, concealed or open) into their place of business, church, etc. Also, the manager/owner can make the same request of an individual and they must comply or be considered trespassing. I suspect this is pretty common across the country. Better question, why would you??? Either come into a business asking you not to or open carry. What’s the point other than demonstrating some personal issue you should have look after. I am a CCP holder and think open is absolutely idiotic.

  • jshowers

    Why are you trying to normalize carrying guns? What good is that to our society? Did your father or grandfather carry a gun into a restaurant? No. Because it is ridiculous.

    • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

      An armed society is a polite society. Ours is distinctly impolite. I welcome the reversion.

      • jshowers

        Did your father or grandfather carry a gun into a restaurant? Why not?

        • Scalia

          Mine did. He was a very law-abiding citizen. Do you have a problem with people exercising rights you disagree with? If so, why? This is the United States (at least I’m assuming you’re from here). If you don’t like guns, don’t have any, but leave your nose out of our business.

          • jshowers

            Your dad open carried to restaurants and movie theaters?

          • Scalia

            We live in an open-carry state, but most of the time my dad carried his weapon concealed. It’s not law-abiding citizens that you should fear; you should fear the fact that people are trying to strip law-abiding citizens from the means of defending themselves against the kind of slaughter we’re seeing nowadays. Remember that most of the mass shootings are occurring in gun-free zones and that several mass killing efforts were thwarted by citizens with guns.

          • Scalia

            Now that I’ve answered your questions, please answer mine. No more dodging.

        • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

          That is none of your business. Further emphasis available on request.

    • Scalia

      “[N]ormalize carrying guns”?? People have been carrying guns since before the founding of our nation. It’s your right not to like it and even to think it’s ridiculous, but it’s our right to think your views are equally ridiculous–and it’s our right to carry weapons to defend ourselves and others.

      If you really want to know “[w]what good is that to our society,” check out several posts of mine in Wizbang which represent the millions of times Americans have defended themselves and others from violent attack.

      • jshowers

        Did your dad open carry a gun to church? Why not? Did he wish he could? Why not?

        • Scalia

          My dad regularly carried a gun to church. Our church had and has a security team, and all of the members thereof are licensed carriers–and very good shots. That’s what saved a Colorado church from slaughter (you can read about it in one of my posts). What’s the point of your gotcha questions? So what if he didn’t? Rights remain whether or not my dad chose to exercise them.

          • jshowers

            What is your church fearful of? What are you scared of?

          • Scalia

            You’re not reading my posts, so your time here will be limited unless you pay more attention. I’ve already told you that a Colorado church was saved from slaughter by a member of its security team. Would you want to see your family shot up in church? Have you forgotten the South Carolina church whose members were defenseless against a crazed murderer? Yes, I fear watching my wife gunned down without my having the means to defend her.

            Again, I’ve answered your questions, now answer mine.

          • jshowers

            Just trying to understand why there are so many fearful men in America.

          • Scalia

            You’re still not answering my questions. Who do you think you are? You come here to ask gotcha questions and imply that there’s something wrong with us for wanting to carry guns, but you’ve not answered even one of my questions. Are you normally that impolite?

            As far as fear goes, Americans save their lives and the lives of others tens of thousands of times every year (yes, that’s accurate) and use a firearm to deter crime over two million times annually. I sincerely hope you’re never the victim of violence, but millions of Americans are. Thankfully, we have responsible citizens who refuse to surrender to crime.

          • jshowers

            It’s curious to me. Fearful armed men in a democratic country.

          • Scalia

            Is the military “fearful” for carrying weapons? Are law enforcement officers “fearful” for carrying weapons? They are there to serve and defend. Why should the government have that right and not private citizens?

            If the government isn’t fearful for carrying weapons (they’re merely being responsible), then we’re not cowering in fear either. Drop the snark and try to argue with a modicum of good will.

          • jshowers

            Ok. You’re right.

          • Scalia

            No, you’re not trying to understand anything, and that’s why you refuse to answer my questions. You’re here to malign us for disagreeing with you.

            Are the WOMEN who serve in the military or law enforcement “fearful” because they carry guns? You can take your bigotry elsewhere.

  • Patti Ireland

    actually, on a constitutional basis, you are dead wrong. You, as a person who wishes to carry a gun, do not have the right to supersede my right as a home or business owner to have a safe and weapons-free environment. There is a balance to all rights. The 2nd amendment says nothing about the right to walk into the home or business of another citizen armed. The basis of the 2nd amendment and the right to bear arms was actually to strengthen the government, by a “well-regulated militia” meaning an organized force regulated by the state, to support the newly formed government and protect against armed insurrections. It did not mean that citizens got to walk around like vigilantes and decide to take matters into their own hands. Any person with a weapon, concealed or open, carry permit or not, should be fully prosecuted for ignoring the requirement of a business to leave their weapons outside.

    • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

      Will you assume the legal liability for any violence committed on your premises against those you have disarmed?

      • Patti Ireland

        will you assume the legal liability for any violence and damage you commit with your weapon in my place of business? I highly doubt it.

        • jim_m

          First, criminals do receive legal liability for any and all damages related to their crimes.

          Second, your assumption is the ignorant and bigoted assumption that ALL law abiding gun owners are necessarily criminals and the ALL uses of guns are by definition crimes.

          If you have barred law abiding citizens from legally carrying in your establishment you have created an attractive nuisance and have created a magnet for criminals that understand that your patrons are vulnerable and incapable of defending themselves.

          If a criminal comes into your establishment and victimizes your patrons, holds them at gun point (which happens), robs them (which happens), rapes female patrons (which happens), murders someone (which happens) are you going to say that it is OK that this happened? Because you are saying that you would rather have ALL of those things happen than to allow someone to defend themselves.

          The relative risk that a legally carrying citizen accidentally hurts someone is 1000’s of times less than a criminal doing any or all of the things I mentioned.

          What are you doing to assume legal liability for the crime you are attracting and effectively abetting in your establishment?

          • Patti Ireland

            you really do not understand law. It is not “creating a public nuisance” to own property or run a business on which one does not allow weapons. And your rights to carry a gun do not supersede my rights to refuse them in my place of business. And no- a homeowner or business owner is not legally liable for actions taken by a criminal. And btw, one is statistically far more likely to be injured or killed by a “good guy with a gun” than to injured or killed in a crime. Let’s look at some of the real stories of the civilian “good guys with guns” who have inserted themselves into crime situations for which they are neither trained nor have any business becoming involved in. Like the “gentleman” in TX who decided to help in a carjacking situation, but shot the VICTIM of the carjacking in the head, then ran away. Or the woman in MI who opened fire at an alleged shoplifting suspect in a crowded parking lot. Or the “good guy with a gun” who chased a man out of an AZ convenience store, for stealing a case of beer, followed him down the street and killed him in the parking lot of another store. These are just a few of the instances that are happening daily. Being permitted to carry a weapon does not appoint you as a law enforcement official, judge, jury or executioner. Shoplifting is not a crime that requires the death penalty, and certainly not the death penalty by some fool with a “savior complex”. Even armed robbery does not carry the death penalty. Then let’s talk about the very recent cases of civilians with guns who have shot and sometimes killed family members, mistaking them for “intruders” as they entered their own homes. The couple in TX who shot their mother/mother-in-law 27 TIMES as she came home form an evening with friends. Or the mother who killed her daughter, returning home from a date. (these just in the past week). Oh, and the retired police officer who shot and killed a man in a movie theater over an argument about a cell phone, because the man threw popcorn in his face. Again, neither using a cell phone in the theater or throwing popcorn are offenses that command the death penalty. The problem is that when people are armed, tensions and difficult situations tend to escalate more quickly than necessary, and it becomes easier to just shoot rather than deal with it in a rational manner. Once you have pulled that gun, it is not easy to put it back in its holster without using it. And regardless of a civilian’s desire to be armed, their ability to pass a background check, and their passing of a simple and very basic gun training course, almost none of them have the kind of emotional control or intensive training to handle these situations. If you want to be a cop, go to the academy, get the training. If you just want to puff up your ego by being armed, stay out of my place.

          • jim_m

            It’s an attractive nuisance to create a place that encourages criminals to prey upon people by disarming them.

            Your point that arms escalate problems is false as most people who carry never draw their weapons and resolve conflicts without them. In those few instances where a gun owner draws their weapon it is almost always to stop a crime, in the vast majority of those cases the result is the weapon not being fired.

            You point out one instance and demand that millions be punished. That isn’t democracy. That isn’t how things are done in the America I grew up in. That is the way it was done in Nazi Germany and in the Soviet Union.

          • Patti Ireland

            First of all, your idea that a gun owner only draws a weapon when a crime is being committed is false- thoroughly repudiated by the FBI. And who do you think I am suggesting be “punished” by saying that I do not want weapons in my home, my business, or in the businesses that I frequent? Telling you that you can’t bring a weapon into my space is not “punishment”. That is an expression of MY constitutional right to not be forced to be intimidated by another person with a weapon. Grow up, little boy, who thinks his manhood must be enhanced by carrying a gun.

          • Scalia

            There is no constitutional right to not be intimidated. If there is a constitutional right for private citizens to bear arms, you cannot claim a non-intimidation right to force them to surrender their rights. A recognition of the right to not be intimidated or offended would eviscerate all other rights.

            Yes, you have every right to prohibit guns in your home and to avoid businesses that allow them.

          • jim_m

            I didn’t say that it was the only time, I said that the times that it wasn’t were very, very small. That remains true.

          • Blackwolf

            Patti: You are making points about idiots who happen to own guns, whether they were licensed to own them by their states or not. When you make a decision to own a gun, and especially to carry it or use it, you need to understand one thing: IT WILL KILL! People who shoot first, before they KNOW what is going on, are part of the problem with the way you leftist or anti-gunners think we as gun owner are! And where the hell did you get a “fact” of statement that “once you have pulled that gun, it is not easy to put it back in it’s holster without using it”? That’s the dumbest thing I’ve heard in 26 years in the military, and 50 years of life! I’m not trying to say YOU are stupid, but that statement SURE IS! I can, and have, and probably will pull my gun from it’s holster, many many times, without using it, and put it back! I have pulled it when I felt threatened, and I have refrained from PULLING THE TRIGGER, and then PUT the GUN BACK in it’s holster! Only an idiot, or someone who is mentally unstable in the first place has a “need” to use a gun just because they pulled it from a holster! As a concealed carry holder, most states REQUIRE training. Open carry states and states that don’t require any training are, in my opinion doing a disservice. SINCE YOU KNOW SO MUCH about carrying a gun and HOW LIKELY someone is to use a gun the pull, why don’t you put your money where your mouth is and do yourself a favor, and get some TRAINING before you spout off on a forum where you know JACK and SH*T about carrying! As for your place of business, I’ll be glad to NEVER set foot in there! Just tell me the name of it so I can make sure NOT to make that mistake!

          • http://wizbangblog.com/author/rodney-graves/ Rodney G. Graves

            You beat me to it, jim_m.

  • Jim

    I choose not to patronize them and spend my money where it and I are not wanted because I carry a concealed firearm. Why would I even consider giving money to a business that doesn’t support our Constitution? Most often than not the businesses posting signs are chain businesses anyway and I would much rather support a local mom and pops business.

  • pmoseman

    What you wish the laws were.

  • ALaSToR

    Agreed, 100%. The signs are merely attempts from idiot store owners to find a weakest link. Fuck ’em. I carry regardless. Jefferson’s quote is perfect. Even if they were reimbursing you for telling you to leave your arms in your vehicle if it got stolen, it would be a violation of one’s right to defend themselves and thus a discriminatory act, no less severe and by logic, far MORE severe than racial, age or any other kind of discrimination which is already illegal. Those cases where it IS against the law in some states where liberal idiot store owners post their gun-free zone bullshit inviting crime obviously should be avoided and boycotted. Let their idiot fucking customers get blasted while their cashiers get robbed after mopping the blood off the floor only to find they lose continuing income by no more customers spending money in, let alone setting foot in their death trap of a business. And then we can watch the lawsuits fly. And if I HAD to go in for any reason whatsoever, the law can suck it when it comes to MY life and thus my firearms. I’d carry regardless. Any law, federal or state, that violates the constitution is inherently null and void, no matter if some dumb fuckin court found it to be unconstitutional or not. The govt may sell their bullshit on others, but it won’t win over those of us who KNOW the constitution and have the balls to stand up and enforce our rights….by any means necessary. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by six.

  • Kim D Campbell

    Dear God. Delete this column. Some people may read it and think you know what you’re talking about.

  • TheHabMan

    Those establishments are private property and as such, they are controlled by those who own them. Unless you beleive I can come onto your house and do as I please, you shouldn’t expect to do the same to others.

    Just don’t give them your money, but how do you think your rights should be respected if you don’t respect the rights of others

  • Richard Charles Ross

    Most cities now have ordinances forbidding entry with CCW on properties labelled as gun free zones,

  • miketx

    While I carry just about everywhere, a shop owner certainly CAN tell people they don’t want guns in their store. This article is nonsense. It’s saying that a property owner has no control over who can enter the property.

  • Blackwolf

    Mr. Huston: It is illegal in MOST states, to carry into a private store, a weapon if that store has a sign prominently displayed that prohibits weapons. At question is what constitutes “prominent”. I can tell you that I have carried into stores with these signs, but the signs were poorly located, and not necessarily easy to see (in once case, the sign was at the bottom of a floor-to-ceiling window, and was a total of 2″ across). If you carry concealed, and think you are not going to get arrested for carrying concealed in NC, trust me, you are going to lose your license to carry, and become a felon, and you deserve to. Until the Supreme Court DEFINITIVELY says 100% that you can carry into any establishment, regardless of the owners or state’s wishes, please do not COME NEAR ME! Sue the store owner if you want – that’s within your right, but don’t mislead anyone else by spouting drivel about your rights under the 2nd amendment, and putting them at risk for arrest and felony conviction just because you disagree with a store owner – the state, and federal government, is going to back them until the supreme court says otherwise.

    Based on your argument above, you probably think that we should all walk into federal court houses, state law enforcement agencies, schools, or anywhere else that is federal or state owned as well, since clearly the laws of the state are unconstitutional…? That is what you’re saying.

    While I disagree with anyone telling me I can’t carry, especially in a store I want to purchase something from, it is the store owners right to do so since it is THEIR property. If that is the case, I just won’t buy from them.

    Supposedly Starbucks doesn’t allow concealed carry, but here in NC, I have yet to walk into one that has a sign stating such, and since they don’t have a sign, I can (and do) – so I take it with a grain of salt when people start screaming that a company/store doesn’t allow concealed carry. If they don’t, then they are required by law in EVERY state to display a sign stating such, if they expect to be able to enforce that request! When they put their sign up (properly) I’ll see their sign, and then, since I can go to jail in NC for ignoring the sign, either not give them my business, or switch to open carry (which is DIFFERENT in NC because if I open carry, and their sign only says “no concealed carry”, then I am within my rights to open carry, again, regardless of their wishes until they change the sign to read “No Weapons”.)

    By telling people that they should BREAK the LAW, you are encouraging idiots to go out and do something stupid, and you yourself are indicating that you don’t deserve the protections of the law because you would just as soon be a lawbreaker yourself.

    Please kindly remove yourself from posting further articles until you are better educated!

  • Mike_Sr

    In some states “No Gun” signs have the force of law. This means if you are caught carrying in a posted store you can be arrested. If arrested you will lose your carry license as a minimum. You should always check: http://www.handgunlaw.us/ first before violating a “No Gun” sign. Better to boycott the store. Whether I am carrying or not, whether they have the force of law or not, I will *NOT* patronize a store with a “No Guns” sign. They are a terrorist magnet! I have locked my weapon in the car and gone in and informed the manager that they just lost a customer, though! :)

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