Rebuking Eric Holder

RaceCard - Eric Holder

In an open letter published by the Daily Beast, African-American author Ron Christie rebukes U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder for wrongfully playing the race card.

Here are excerpts:

What you don’t understand, Mr. Holder, is that there are many of us who are trying to take our country back – back from a group of politicians who seem intent on our destruction as a pillar of strength and liberty in the world. Many of your fellow citizens are dismayed by your conduct, and our anger has nothing to do with the color of your skin.

You are the first attorney general in the history of the United States to be held in contempt of Congress. This had nothing to do with your skin color, and everything to do with your failure to explain how the United States government provided guns to Mexican drug cartels that were eventually used to kill Border Patrol agent Brian Terry in 2010…

… And our outrage here has nothing to do with “racial animus.” This is about personal accountability, and your failure to provide us with answers…

… Just after you assumed office, Mr. Holder, you said America was a “nation of cowards” on matters of race. What is cowardly is the manner in which you, the president, and other officials of this administration have stoked up the racial animus you claim to deplore. America’s first black president was expected to usher in a new era of racial equality. Instead, we have watched the bonds that hold Americans together become more frayed.

We are now more polarized and more divided along racial lines than the day you took office. By recklessly accusing your opponents of racism, you have turned back the clock on race relations in this country. We are all worse off as a result, and weaker as a country.

Your use of the race card to explain away genuine political opposition to President Obama’s policies upsets many people, particularly black conservatives like myself.

To summarize, Attorney General Holder and President Obama are being judged by the content of their character, not by the color of their skin, and that judgement is negative.

That judgement does not please people who have placed the Democratic Party on a pedestal, because that judgement contradicts their belief that Democrat politicians are superior to Republican politicians.

So, when a Democrat politician who happens to be black is judged as having a poor character, the race card is played in attempt to defend that politician.

To add to the problem, some Democrats are in denial about the race card’s existence and frequent use by Democrats. Such denial is their way of trying to keep the Democratic Party up on that pedestal.

For the record, I am not a Republican, and I have no love for the Republican Party. Republican politicians have made plenty of their own mistakes, but playing the race card in attempt to prevent debate isn’t one of them.

African-Americans rebuking Democrats


Note: The second image in this post (which is also the feature image) is a mash-up of different images copied from the Internet. The image of the donkey holding a sign is an altered version of an image created by Ron Leishman.

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  • Retired military

    “To add to the problem, some Democrats are in denial about the race card’s existence and frequent use by Democrats. ”
    Calling Chico aisle 1. Chico Aisle 1

  • Commander_Chico

    Yeah Holder sucks but his worst feature is selective prosecution on Wall Street. Seems like only European banks get hammered by DOJ.

    • jim_m

      The worst feature is selective prosecution for political reasons period. It doesn’t matter where.

  • Hank_M

    “We are now more polarized and more divided along racial lines than the day you took office. By recklessly accusing your opponents of racism, you have turned back the clock on race relations in this country.”

    The comments at the linked article completely validate this, ironically enough.

    • Brucehenry

      Pardon me but bull fucking shit.

      I read the article and it’s the same old boilerplate Republicans have been repeating since before the 2008 election, and it’s nonsense. And the comments, the first 20 or so anyway, no more validate Christie’s point than the man in the moon.

      Think about race relations in your own life. Are you more mistrustful of your black friends, acquaintances, customers, and service providers than you were in 2008? Do you think they are more mistrustful of you? I sure haven’t noticed anything like that.

      Conservatives looove to find a black guy who spouts conservative nonsense, but that doesn’t make their nonsense any less….nonsensical.

      • jim_m

        You can disagree with conservative ideas all you want. However, lefties are tremendous racists when a black man dares to share those conservative ideas. Nothing makes a lefty go completely bat shit like a conservative minirity.

        Sure Bruce, you believe that blacks should be free as long as they believe what you want them to.

      • jim_m

        Actually, my friends are my friends and unlike you that doesn’t depend on their skin color. Stop projecting your own racist views on everyone else. You’re making yourself look like a fool.

        Seriously. It would never even occur to me to suspect a friend on account of his skin color, religion or sexuality. I would consider it the height of dishonor to suspect a good friend in such a superficial way. Perhaps that is why I consider betrayal such a serious issue.

        Some people still believe in loyalty and honor. It is obvious from your comment that you do not.

        • Brucehenry

          So how are race relations in this country in such terrible shape thanks to Obama and Holder? If they haven’t fostered mistrust in our daily lives why the constant rat-tat-tat that things are so much worse?

          EDIT: You can’t have it both ways. Either race relations are bad in this country or they ain’t.

          • jim_m

            Because, while people do not change the way they think about their friends, they do change the way they think about strangers. I have also encountered far more open racism from minorities than I have ever done before obama.

            And yes, when I meet someone new who happens to be a minority I brace myself for a bunch of ignorant and bigoted comments should they realize that I am a conservative. That was never the case before obama.

            And I also have to deal with loads more self loathing bullshit from idiots like you.

          • Brucehenry

            First and second paragraphs sound like projection to me ha ha. But if you say so.

            By the way my question was if you sensed mistrust from black friends AND acquaintances AND customers AND service providers etc. Apparently you do, so I guess I stand corrected, at least in the case of Jim M.

            Everybody, Obama and Holder have simply RUINED race relations for Jim M! (Everybody else not so much.)

          • Retired military

            Bruce first you asked him to discuss things in his own life and then when he does you say it sounds like projection.

          • Brucehenry

            Not mutually exclusive

          • jim_m

            FUCK YOU Bruce.. I stated that your bullshit comments were nothing but projection way up this thread. I also stated that the effect on race relations was predominantly in people’s general feelings and not necessarily in their direct actions, but that I did find that the left was far more vocal about bullshit claims of racism than ever before.

          • Brucehenry

            I can’t imagine why you didn’t trot out this hothead on OTB, ha ha not really.

          • Brucehenry

            “…I brace myself for a bunch of ignorant and bigoted comments should they realize that I am a conservative.”

            Translation: Black people call me an asshole now when I spout bigoted nonsense, they never used to.

          • Walter_Cronanty

            Good grief, Bruce. Look at what the left has said about Justice Thomas and Secretary Rice. Then look at this poll by NBC News and the WSJ:

            “Public attitudes about race relations have plummeted since the historic election of President Barack Obama, according to a new poll from NBC News and the Wall Street Journal.

            Only 52 percent of whites and 38 percent of blacks have a favorable opinion of race relations in the country, according to the poll, which has tracked race relations since 1994 and was conducted in mid-July by Hart Research Associations and Public Opinion Strategies.

            That’s a sharp drop from the beginning of Obama’s first term, when 79 percent of whites and 63 percent of blacks held a favorable view of American race relations.”


          • Brucehenry

            Really? Is it a surprise that everyone had a happy smile shortly after the first black president was inaugurated, and that the public’s views of race relations have tempered since?

            Six years of constant insults and innuendo and slander and double standards, as per the first black President, by the right have NO effect on the public’s concept of race relations? It’s ALL Obama’s and Holder’s fault? I mean the part that isn’t Sharpton’s and Jackson’s?

            You guys in the Party of Personal Responsibility EVER look in a mirror? Jesus Christ.

          • Walter_Cronanty

            Insults and innuendos? Like when Obama said of Republicans: ” We don’t mind the Republicans joining us. They can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back.”

            Or when Holder, when speaking about the Philadelphia black panther voter intimidation he dismissed, talked about “my people.”

            Or maybe when Obama immediately jumped on the police in the Henry Gates matter. Or when he poured gas on the fire of Trayvon Martin and that white Latino, George Zimmerman.

            Had a white Republican/Libertarian ever said things like this, in the reverse, you leftists would have gone nuts. Imagine if W had said: “You know, Channon Christian looks a lot like one of my daughters.”

          • Brucehenry

            Who the hell is Channon Christian?

            As a liberal, I apologize for my president expressing an opinion on a matter that touches on race. Pouring gas on the fire just like LBJ and HST and FDR and Bill Clinton did. What’s the difference that makes what Obama said so bad? Can’t quite put my finger on it…..

          • Walter_Cronanty

            Google Channon Christian. And after you answer the question as to why you haven’t heard of her [and her boyfriend, Christopher Newsom], get back to me.

          • Brucehenry

            You should read the wikipedia page on this crime, Walter. Let me give you a few tidbits:

            The president of Criminal Justice Journalists, an association of crime, court, and prison writers, editors, and producers, said there didn’t appear to be any obvious racial motive for the crime or for the lack of widespread coverage. The police chief said there was no evidence the crimes were racially motivated and that it “appears to be a random violent act.” The special counsel to the local DA said “there is no evidence of a hate crime,” and that “not only is there no evidence of any racial animus, there is evidence to the contrary.”

            Of course noted Voices of Reason Malkin and O’Reilly and the slobberers just like them disagreed, so maybe that’s where you got the idea the case has any parallel to the Trayvon Martin case. But Channon Christian’s father, addressing those rightwing ghouls standing on his daughter’s body to make political points, said, “It ain’t about you.”

            Don’t like to call you a rube, Walter, but you got took on this one. And you have internalized this until you take it as Gospel, apparently.

          • Walter_Cronanty

            And there was no evidence that George Zimmerman shot Trayvon Martin, while Martin was bashing Zimmerman’s skull into the sidewalk, because George was racist.
            YET, the Race Baiter in Chief couldn’t resist bringing skin color into his brilliant analysis, could he? You’re the rube.

          • Brucehenry

            What part of his brilliant analysis did you disagree with, Walter? You don’t even remember what he said, do you? You’re just mad that the black president expressed an opinion on an alleged crime where a black kid was the victim. Did the president accuse Zimmerman, or the Sanford PD, of racism?

            No? What DID he say, specifically, that was so offensive?

            QUICK, tell me before digging up quotes.

          • Walter_Cronanty

            We had some soul searching to do because if Obama had a son, “he’d look like Trayvon.” Yes, I looked it up.

            My point, which you missed, was that: “Had a white Republican/Libertarian ever said things like this, in the reverse, you leftists would have gone nuts. Imagine if W had said: “You know, Channon Christian looks a lot like one of my daughters.”

            You countered by saying I was a rube because the attack by four black thugs on a white couple, making her watch while they beat, tortured and sodomized him, then raped her and murdered them both, had nothing to do with race.
            Assume that’s correct for a moment. W was president. He didn’t jump in the middle of this tragedy and say: “You know, Channon Christian looks a lot like on of my daughters.”
            Given the same situation, Obama jumps in with both feet in his mouth to introduce race – which Zimmerman’s friends/acquaintances said was a non-factor.
            That’s why race relations have gotten worse. Obama and Holder hide behind the race card so often because it’s the only fig leaf they have to hide behind. That’s what this post is about.

          • Brucehenry

            But yet “race relations” in our daily lives HAVE NOT “gotten worse,” now have they?

            Again, have you, like Jim, run across many more racially resentful black folks since Obama has been in office? Has the lady at the supermarket been rude to you because you’re white? Have you been refused service or made to feel unwelcome at black-owned businesses? Have you had to, like Jim, “brace yourself for bigoted comments” when black folk discover your conservatism?

            No? I didn’t think so.

            So, again HOW have “race relations” worsened in this country? The only way I see “race raltions” have worsened is in the deafening cri de butthurt I hear from whiners on the right.

          • jim_m

            The racial issue was that the press outside of the local area wouldn’t cover it despite it being one of the most heinous crimes of the last century.

          • Brucehenry

            Sure but Sharpton is a race baiter when he talks about Trayvon but Malkin and O’Reilly are Responsible Journalists when they try to whip up a frenzy in this case.

            The difference is one crime had connotations of a police cover-up of possible race animus, the other didn’t.

          • jim_m

            Sharpton is a race baiter because he does these things solely for publicity and to enrich himself. Sorry, but after Freddie’s Fashion Mart and Tawana Brawley, Sharpton has to prove his good will before anyone should believe him.

          • Brucehenry

            Yeah well Sharpton does have to live down a lot I’ll grant you that. But that doesn’t excuse race baiting on the part of Malkin and O’Reilly in the Channon Christian matter now does it?

            I never heard a word from you about the race baiting in this matter, Jim. Why did you “refuse to denounce” this stuff? LOL.

          • jim_m

            Race baiting? SO it is race baiting to report that a black person commits one of the most brutal crimes this nation has seen ever? That’s lowering the bar a bit don’t you think?

          • Brucehenry

            It’s race baiting to pretend it was a racial hate crime when the local sheriff and the local DA’s office says it wasn’t, dumbass.

          • Walter_Cronanty

            The local sheriff and DA said the same about Zimmerman. Didn’t stop Obama – is he a dumbass?

          • Brucehenry

            Did you think he (or Sharpton) was racebaiting? If so why weren’t Malkin and O’Reilly racebaiting?

          • Walter_Cronanty

            You admittedly had no idea who Channon Christian was, nor did you have any idea about the horrible, heinous crime committed.
            Torture, rape, two murders, committed by four members of a different race – and you knew nothing.
            If O’Reilly and Malkin are race-baiters, they don’t hold a candle to Obama and Sharpton. Oh, and Obama is President of the US of A – gets just a bit more press coverage. I [used to] expect more for someone in his position than from a pundit. Silly me.

          • Brucehenry

            Sharpton was called in by members of the black community in Sanford who knew his notoriety would call attention to their suspicion of police indifference to the killing of an unarmed black teen. Obama spoke on the subject after it blew up, partly due to Sharpton’s efforts.

            By contrast, Malkin and O’Reilly, looking for a crime — any crime — committed by blacks against whites, the more heinous the better for their purposes, tried to make a hate crime out of what the local law enforcement said was a random act of violence. They purposely drew a false equivalence to the Martin case in an attempt to whip up racial resentment.

            See the difference?

          • jim_m

            Sorry, the government has almost never called a black on white crime a hate crime. You would have a hard time finding more than one or two ever.

          • Retired military

            But Channon Christian’s father, addressing those rightwing ghouls standing on his daughter’s body to make political points, said, “It ain’t about you.”

            Would that be about the same level as Cindy Sheehan,darling of the left and MSM (but then I repeat myself) lying on her son’s grave?

          • Retired military

            Come on Bruce. It isn’t just him or Holder on the left it is just about everyone on the left (who has a recognizeable name) who puts out their opinions in a public forum. Folks in the media, on blogs, newspapers, tv, etc etc.

          • Brucehenry

            This thread is about how Holder and Obama have “set back race relations” in this country “50 years” lol.

          • jim_m

            OK, so its about how you and holder and obama set race relations back.

          • Retired military

            Where as I disagree that things have been set back 50 years but it seems a bit disengenous for one side of the discussion to be limited to 2 people and the other can be critical of millions of which 99.99998% of whom aren’t guilty of the behavior you espouse they are guilty of.

          • Brucehenry

            What the thread is about is Christie’s allegation that Holder and Obama have set race relations back. One of my replies to that is that the constant drumbeat of how Obama, the first black president, is a lazy shiftless do-nothing who likes to take expensive vacations and give Free Government Shit away is at least as responsible as Obama and Holder are.

          • Retired military

            “Six years of constant insults and innuendo and slander and double standards”
            You mean like
            Mean spiritied.
            etc etc etc
            Would you like me to post my 50 or so comments from various folks on the left who have used, abused and tore up the race card?

          • Brucehenry

            Please God no

          • Retired military

            Hey at least I gave you an option.

          • Brucehenry

            How ’bout you, Walter? Do you brace yourself for bigoted comments when you meet a new black person nowadays?

            Or, for you, does daily life in America, as to meeting and interacting with people from a variety of ethnic and religious backgrounds, continue to improve, as it has since the triumph of the civil rights movement of the 1960s?

          • Walter_Cronanty

            I would say relations have definitely not improved since Obama was elected. Yes, they did get better during/after the civil rights movement – but Sharpton, Jackson, Holder and the Race Baiter in Chief have poisoned the well.

          • Brucehenry

            Have things got worse in YOUR daily life? Do you have your back up all the time, as Jim does when he runs into these uppity types that take offense at his conservatism?

          • Walter_Cronanty

            No, my back gets up when I say the government should get the hell out of my and others’ business and I’m called a racist.

          • Brucehenry

            I find that some white folks get upset when they spew a bunch of “taker not maker” claptrap and get called racist. Too tough for them.

          • Walter_Cronanty

            So “taker not maker” is racist? Sweet Jesus, Bruce, the SSI rolls have sky-rocketed, the food stamp rolls have sky-rocketed, a larger share of the population doesn’t work, and you think that’s all because of black people? Jim M’s right, you are a racist.

          • Brucehenry

            Sure Walter you got me lol.

          • Brucehenry

            If you don’t think the whole “Southern Strategy” wasn’t and isn’t about pitting Virtuous White Salt Of The Earth Folk against Lazy Good For Nothing Mud People you either haven’t lived in the South or are the target audience.

          • Walter_Cronanty

            Nixon’s southern strategy has made “taker not maker” a racist dog whistle, is that it, Bruce? Really? If “taker not maker” is aracist dog whistle, then “…they gotta sit in the back” is “sic ’em.”

          • Brucehenry

            It’s not just that specific phrase and you know it, or should know it. Much of the rhetoric we hear from the right is about lazy takers, Obamaphones and other They Want Free Stuff mythology which has undeniable racial overtones. If you don’t see it it’s because, in my opinion, you are in denial about it.

          • Walter_Cronanty

            One of my favorite stories about “takers not makers” was from about 6 years ago. There were these two huge women on TV at a food bank, bitching about how they couldn’t get what they want, food stamps didn’t provide enough, they were out of work, blah, blah, blah.
            Both of them had blue tooth ear phones in their ears, with their mobile phones [Obama phones, not likely as he wasn’t President] – and those things weren’t cheap back then. They were white.
            Obama’s policies have made it worse, and he’s doing it on purpose to make more people dependent on government and therefore loyal Democrat voters.
            That’s “takers not makers”. It has nothing to do with race, except when you, like Obama and Holder, want to hide behind the race card because you have nothing else.

          • Brucehenry

            Yeah sure you’re right it never has anything to do with race and never has sure.

          • Retired military

            The takers aren’t just minorities Bruce. And most of the time minorities aren’t even mentioned when the takers are brought up. I think you doing your own projection here.

          • Brucehenry

            That’s because it’s not PC to say that shit out loud these days. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t have racial overtones, don’t be naive.

          • Retired military

            Yet earlier you made a lot of hay about folks on the right insulting others.
            So are you saying that it is okay for the left to insult folks on the right but not in the reverse?

          • Brucehenry

            Really RM? That’s what you’re reading?

          • Retired military

            “That’s what you’re reading?”

            With this stupid comment system messing up the order I cant even find the comment I was referring to originally Bruce

          • Brucehenry

            I know what you mean, man.

          • Retired military

            I have no problems with folks of different races. I meet new folks just about every week. Of course the military environment is generally different from civilian life. However, I have been discriminated against by both a Hispanic officer and an African American warrant specifically because I was white. How do I know this? Because I was so by my soldiers who were both African American and Hispanic.

          • Brucehenry

            So in other words there are still racists out there SHOCKED!

          • Retired military

            Name one person here or anywhere else for that matter that said racism is dead or that there are no racists.
            There are idiots and they are on both sides of the political spectrum. I know quite a few dem racists. How do I know they are dem racists? Because I am related to them.

          • Brucehenry

            Jim has come close, pretty much saying that racism is dead — except for the racism on the “democratic Plantation,” you see, because the Ku Klux Klan were Democrats so ipso fatso liberals are racist and suck. And also racist Obama who is buying Democrat votes by sneaking Honduran children across the border and Giving Them Free Stuff.

            But aside from that racism is dead.

          • jim_m

            No. People say stupid bullshit like conservatives are all racists, the GOP is the party of slavery, minorities cannot be racist. You know, the same bullshit that you spout off all the time.

          • Brucehenry

            Really? Link to me saying any of those things, you lying strawman slayer.

          • Retired military

            Bruce – you asked for it. Note this list is redacted to your specifications.
            Brent Terry, professor at Eastern Connecticut “If racist republicans win than colleges will start closing up”


            WAPO columnist Jonathan Capehart “republicans extolled the wonders and the virtues and the beauty of slavery,”


            Dem Ill Gov Quinn “Black republicans are like Jews (who) collaborated with the Nazis during World War II, helping them to round up their own people in the hopes they’d be the last to go.”
            Ed Schultz MSNBC

            “So the president goes to the other side of the world and that’s what he gets asked about, racism. How sad is that? But you know what? When you’re the first, you always get picked on. And I have to tell you that this president, I think, is very bold, very strong, very well guided, and has a moral compass. And there’s absolutely no question about it that he has been picked on because of the color of his skin. And there’s no doubt that he has been called many names by conservative talkers in America, many names. He has been targeted, he has been obstructed. And I think that the way this president has been treated empowers jokers like this (alluding to Sterling), like, well, the government does it, we all see it. I guess we can say whatever the hell we want and act however we want. That’s my take on it. I, I, I think that this is a scab that’s been ripped off again and it’s a scab that really, undoubtedly is gonna happen again and again on America. But I believe, I pin this attitude that we have in society being inflamed by right-wing talkers who hate this president, that embolden people such as this guy to go on and act disrespectful against society.”
            Dorian Warren, Columbia professor “There’s a distinction we should make between racist words and speech, and racist practices and policies. We should be focused on the policies and the racial impact of policies that those Republican leaders frankly stand for,”

            Dem Rep. Bennie Thompson “Let’s face it, pretty much all criticism of Obama is racist”
            Eugene Robinson WAPO ” This worldview has found a home in the tea party movement, which harbors — let’s be honest — a racist strain.”

            Democratic Congressman Bennie Thompson ” Justice Thomas is an Uncle Tom” “Sen. McConnell is a racist”
            “Voting Rights Erosion Is Greater Racist Outrage” Albert Hunt Bloomber

            New York magazine Jonathan Chait, “America’s unique brand of ideological anti-statism is historically inseparable…from the legacy of slavery.”

            Dem Rep Bennie Thompson told a radio show. “That Mitch McConnell would have the audacity to tell the president of the United States … that ‘I don’t care what you come up with we’re going to be against it.’ Now if that’s not a racist statement I don’t know what is.”

            For good measure, Thompson added that Clarence Thomas “doesn’t like black people, he doesn’t like being black.”


            “I think not raising the minimum wage is a racist policy,” stated Ed Schultz


            Charlie Crist “Crist: Race Motivates GOP Opposition to Obama”

            Speaker at Democrat sponsored White Privilege Conference
            “The longer you are in the Tea Party, the more racist you become.”


            New York Times columnist Bob Herbert “Republicans are hostile to the interests of African-Americans”

            Ta-Nehisi Coates, “Racism–and sexism and homophobia–are about organizing power, not merely disliking the cut of one’s jib. And if Hillary Clinton becomes president, she will have to cope with being perceived as a woman representing the interests of black people and women of all ethnicities. Sexism will never be off the stage. Nor will racism.”
            the Atlantic

            NPR :
            For some Democrats, the explanation is simple: race. In recent weeks, West Virginia Sen. Jay Rockefeller, Mississippi Rep. Bennie Thompson and former Florida Gov. Charlie Crist have all said racism is the driving force behind Republican resistance to the president.

            Republicans, unsurprisingly, say their disdain for Obama is based not on the color of his skin, but on the content of his policies.

            “If any white Democrat had pushed through a billion-dollar stimulus plan and a takeover of the health care industry, he would have been equally detested by conservatives and Republicans,” says Whit Ayres, a GOP pollster and consultant.

            There’s no question we’re living in a time of divisive politics, when roughly half the country is likely to hate the president, no matter whom he or she might be.

            But race has been a factor in American politics since the very beginning. It’s certainly part of the mix in terms of responses to Obama.

            His status as the nation’s first African-American president exacerbates the concerns of those who feel the country is changing rapidly in ways that are not always comfortable.

            Josh Marshall – “For years, we’ve had a running conversation about how much or whether the often vitriolic, seemingly gut level opposition to President Obama as opposed to simple partisanship, opposition to policies and more. It’s a tangled question since supporters and opponents each bring preconceptions and commitments to it. And it’s a question that is inherently over-determined since the same people who might bear a racial animus toward the President probably also oppose him intensely purely on policy grounds.
            … To whatever extent opposition to President Obama is racial, it’s not only because he’s black himself, it’s because he’s the leader of the party that is the institutional representative of black people. Indeed, in a way that wasn’t nearly so clear 22 years ago, the Democratic Party now disproportionately represents African-Americans, Hispanics, East Asians and South Asians. It’s the most visible force in American political life that stands for an America that looks a lot more like the current Democratic Party than the current Republican Party
            Krystal Ball

            “And a necessary part of this delusion is the belief that young people, city dwellers and minorities aren’t part of real America so they don’t count or at least they shouldn’t count. Which is where disenfranchising voting laws come in. Unfortunately for conservatives, our votes still count the same as everyone else.”
            Chris Matthews on GA senate race “the GOP primary will likely head to a runoff and “the reason they have these runoffs is to make sure no black guy ever won a nomination down there.””
            “I think it’s very important to take a long view at what’s going on,” Rockefeller said. “I’ll be able to dig up some emails that make part of the Affordable Care Act that doesn’t look good-especially from people who made up their mind that they don’t want it to work because they don’t like the president. Maybe he’s of the wrong color, something of that sort. I’ve seen a lot of that and I know a lot of that to be true.


            Rep CLyburn (dem representative) Benghazi Committee to Racist Democrats During Reconstruction Benghazi Committee to Racist Democrats During Reconstruction – “Bhenghazi committee is like racists during reconstruction”

            LA Weekly cover cartoon shows Tea Party republican as a Klansman.

            Editor-in-chief Sarah Fenske explained the L.A. Weekly’s cover art to Breitbart News on Sunday.

            “The goal with any cover is to get people to pick up the paper and read the journalism within. They’re not a literal illustration of the story inside (otherwise you might have seen a very dull caricature of Kashkari and an equally bland one of Donnelly),” she said.

            Fenske allows that the goal of the cover was to mock the GOP: “Our creative director, Darrick Rainey, worked with the illustrator to incorporate some funny images of constituencies who might want to shape the future of a party that’s fallen on very hard times in California: fat-cat bankers, Minutemen, Tea Party activists, etc.”

            She told Breitbart News that the choice of a KKK figure was inspired by a claim by David Duke in 2011 that Tea Party activists had urged him to run for president. “David Duke claimed some activists urged him to run for president in 2012; it’s not inconceivable his ilk might want to be among them.”

            She provided no actual proof of Tea Party support for the KKK–an organization closely connected, historically, with the Democratic Party.

            Andrea Mitchell “is the rise in extremism due to an African American President?”
            Howard Dean
            The Last Word
            June 16, 2014

            “First of all, not only do they (the Tea Party) not have any solutions, there is no solution that will satisfy the Tea Party people except going back to the ’60s. I’m talking about the 1860s, not the 1960s.”

            Daily Beast writer Christopher Dickey

            “Lee’s nobility and charisma, and the carnage that he commanded, gave cover to all those incendiary Southern politicians who did not, in fact, feel ambivalent about slavery. These “fire-eaters,” as they were called, not only wanted to perpetuate their peculiar institution, they wanted to reopen the slave trade with Africa…

            The fire-eaters were a minority then, as the Tea Partiers (their spiritual descendants) are today, but like today’s Tea Party they promoted extremist agendas and pounded down on wedge issues that sundered the nation and very nearly destroyed it.”

            “These basic facts about a moment of history that Obama obviously
            holds dear are worth going over again right
            now because, in fact, the secessionists of 1860
            are the ideological forebears of the Tea Party
            movement today. No, the United States is not on
            the verge of another violent breakup, not close
            at all, even if Tea Party icons like Gov. Rick
            Perry in Texas or some of Sarah Palin’s friends
            and relatives in Alaska may toy with the notion
            of secession. But there is in American politics
            today a discourse of such cupidity, bigotry,
            and self-delusion about the role of government
            that it would have been familiar to anyone
            following the rhetoric of the Southern
            “fire-eaters” pushing the country toward a
            conflagration 150 years ago.”

            Huffington post article titled
            Charlie Rangel Suggests Republican Opposition To Obama Is Rooted In Racism


            Chris Matthews: “Tea Party In Miss. used
            ‘Jim Crow-Era Law’ to Intimidate Black Voters”

            CBS news article
            A Fourth of July parade float in Nebraska that showed a dummy standing outside an outhouse labeled “Obama Presidential Library” is drawing cries of racism from local residents and the Nebraska Democratic Party

            Alex Wagner MSNBC Host “are Voter ID laws the new “Jim Crow”

            Yahoo article from Liberal Obama supporting author entitled “n word in the white house”

            If the headline wasn’t strange and shocking enough, the New York Post reports that the op-ed is actually a pro-Obama piece, in which Collier argues that, “far right voters hate Obama because he is black.”
            Berkley law professor John A. Powell

            ” The point is we had levees breaking and thousands of black people were stranded.

            So it was a racialized system because it distributed resources – it was designed to racialize anxiety.

            They took money away from protecting the levees because the levees were protecting Black people.”

            Eric Holder
            “administration’s political opponents.

            “There’s a certain level of vehemence, it seems to me, that’s directed at me [and] directed at the president,” Holder told ABC. “You know, people talking about taking their country back. … There’s a certain racial component to this for some people. I don’t think this is the thing that is a main driver, but for some there’s a racial animus.”

            (funny it wasn’t considered racist when Dems were talking about taking their country back and Bush was president. You know dems like howard dean among others)

            Eric Holder

            “Is it possible to oppose Obama and not be a racist?”
            Would you like more examples Bruce?


          • Retired military

            I didn’t cover the minorities cant be racist option

            See below


            Michael Eric Dyson Shares Why “Black People Can’t Be Racist” Backstage At Don’t Sleep!





            these are just a few Bruce. Would you like me to link some more?

          • Brucehenry

            I challenged Jim to link to ME saying any of the 3 things he says conservatives hear all the time.

            If I felt like it, I’m sure I could come up with a long long list of Republicans and conservatives saying insulting things about liberals, calling them traitors, appeasers, disloyal, communists, socialists, fascists, terrorist-sympathizers, sodomites, baby-killers, yada yada yada. Do you doubt it?

            So fucking what? What does that have to do with Holder and Obam setting back race relations?

            Long long lists of insults and namecalling, with or without big ol’ vocabulary words, have nothing to do with this discussion.

          • Retired military

            As I said above I misread your statement. My apologies for the list.

            And I don’t doubt that you could however, those folks weren’t the President and AG of the US. I listed at least 2 things that Holder said.

            I also listed several things which members of Congress and members of the MSM have said. I am fairly certain your list wouldn’t have as many well known names as mine.

          • Brucehenry

            And I can list things Cheney and several members of Congress have said, do you doubt it?

          • Retired military

            If you feel like it sure. I would love to see what you list.
            Can you try to keep it at least after 2000 though. I don’t need to read something some republican might have said in 1922.

          • Brucehenry

            I’m pretty sure I don’t have to go to the trouble. Let’s start with Sarah Palin and her “pallin’ around with terrorists” schtick and then Google Michele Bachmann, Louie Gohmert, and Ted Cruz. Not to mention the Tea Party kooks and the religious nuts with the baby-killin’ and the waterin’ the tree of liberty stuff.

          • Retired military

            Well “pallin around with terrorists” isn’t calling someone a terrorists. Unlike what has been said about republicans simply for opposing Obama’s agenda.
            None of the rest even rise to the level of Reid (who has called republicans terrorists numerous times), Pelosi, Dean or Holder. Also just because the tea party is for smaller govt I don’t consider them kooks. As for baby killing are you referring to abortion? I consider abortion the same as murdering an unborn child. Sorry if you consider me a religious nut. Is watering the tree of liberty the same as proclaiming you want a race war ?

          • Brucehenry


            I think you agree that both sides have partisans and pundits who get on TV and the internet and say terrible things about each other. One side says the other guys are horrible hateful racists and the other side says their opponents are baby-killin’ sodomite terrorist-lovin’ commie appeasers.

          • Retired military

            “I think you agree that both sides have partisans and pundits who get on TV”
            Okay Bruce. Now we are getting somewhere I hope.

            Crying racism (especially when done by POTUS and the AG) when there is none cheapens the racism charge and actually hurts it especially when actual racism exixts
            This IMO causes a lot of harm in an area where enough harm has been heaped over the ages.

            Calling someone a commie baby killing yada yada yada doesnt have near the impact especially on a real problem that affects
            thousands of folks

          • Brucehenry

            Matter of perspective. Just as racism is sometimes invoked to discredit a conservative opponent and shut him down, so “traitor” and “baby-killer” and “appeaser” are used to discredit a liberal opponent and shut HIM down.

            Income inequality is a “real problem.” Lingering racism is a “real problem.” Discrimination against LGBT people is a “real problem.” A rigged economic system that favors the already-rich at the expense of the poor and middle class is a “real problem.” Concocting bogus excuses for war and bloated military spending is a “real problem.”

            So please, don’t act as if conservatives being called racist is something so heinous because racism, which conservatives claim is mostly in the minds of racebaiting fakers nowadays, is a “real problem” while others aren’t.

          • Retired military

            I am not saying that there aren’t other problems out there Bruce. I am simply saying that I think that actual racism is too important to deal with than to be trivialized. And as many insults for the left that are out there there are just as many on the right. Traitor for instance, used by left and right, Baby killer vs Trying to keep women barefoot and pregnant, appeaser vs warmonger, or chickenhawk.
            Should I now state that this thread is about racism and race relations (as you have done quite a few times now to limit the discussion).

          • Brucehenry

            Which is kind of my point too.

          • Walter_Cronanty

            Obama did pal around with terrorists. What, telling the truth is race-baiting? Bill Ayers and his wife are admitted terrorists.

          • Brucehenry

            Ayers and his wife are admitted EX terrorists who are now accepted members of the educational community in Chicago just as Ollie North is an admitted conspirator who is now an Republican ex-nominee for Senate. Many many Republicans palled around with him and he conspired to subvert the will of Congress.

          • Retired military

            “he conspired to subvert the will of Congress.”
            Last time I checked Holder is the first AG to be held in contempt of Congress ,
            Lerner has proclaimed her innocence but pleaded the 5th.
            Emails have been subpoenaed by Congress yet 7? hard drives have apparently developed issues and were destroyed.
            Lerner openly discussed hiding things from Congress.
            Think you stepped in that one Bruce.

          • Retired military

            BTW Bruce. Holder doesn’t do much for race relations when he refuses to prosecute a black panther standing outside a polling place with a club but does investigate some guy with an outhouse float entitled “Obama’s presidential library” (if there was a threat I would understand it but Bush got hung in effigy and no DOJ investigation).

          • Brucehenry

            Except, as established, the outhouse thing is NOT being investigated by DOJ. They sent a community relations guy to a meeting, probably, as Chico mentioned, to explain the First Amendment to a bunch of indignant black folks.

          • Walter_Cronanty

            Now that is funny, Bruce. The First Amendment….oohhh that’s rich.

          • Retired military

            Maybe I misread it. I didn’t feel that it worth more than a glance. Maybe it was the secret service. At least I admit that I could be wrong. the first half the statement still stands though.



            7750 hits. Kinda explains how some folks can maybe state something not totally in evidence.

          • Walter_Cronanty

            Yeah, right RM. The DOJ sent someone to explain the First Amendment to indignant black folks just like they sent someone to the IRS to explain the First Amendment to Lois Lerner.
            [EDIT] I don’t believe even Bruce believed what he wrote.

          • Brucehenry

            OK replace in my comment the word “probably” with the word “possibly.”

            In either case there’s no DOJ “investigation.”

          • Retired military

            No Walter. The DOJ went over to Lerner and made sure she understood the 5th amendment. Word for word.

          • Walter_Cronanty

            Doh! You’re right. My bad – I always get those rascally amendments mixed up.

          • Brucehenry

            What it illustrates is the right wing echo chamber, dude, and nothing else.

          • jim_m

            And I said that I was talking about personal experience and conversations you dolt. Fuck you if I have to provide links for every human interaction I have ever had.

          • Retired military

            Sorry Bruce. I didn’t read “Link to me ” as to LINKING TO YOU SAYING but as “Show me an example/link”
            See what happens when I read too fast.
            My apologies.

          • jim_m

            Wow, dumbass. Since I was talking about my personal experience, I kind of figured that you understood that these were verbal conversations. I’m not transcribing my entire life online.

          • Brucehenry

            Did you not say “the same bullshit you spout off all the time?” Since the only contact you and I ever have is here, I thought maybe you could show me spouting off one of those things. Can’t? What a surprise.

          • Retired military

            Jim you did call him out personally. I don’t agree with a lot of what Bruce says but I have never heard him state any of the things you accuse him of.
            Now if you were referring to Chico than I would just sit back and keep my mouth shut or else be digging up old Chico posts as I don’t doubt that he has said at least 2 of the 3 things you mentioned.

          • Brucehenry

            It’s OK Jim can’t fucking read.

          • jim_m

            Perhaps I am reading between the lines. Bruce scoffs at the Channon Christian rape and murder as though it were nothing and that there was no racial component to it. He is utterly ignorant of the case despite living in the state where it happened. That fact alone is evidence that the media has a bias regarding hate crimes.

            Forgive me if I read the account of the crime and cannot possibly believe that this was not a hate crime. Authorities have almost never been willing to acknowledge the existence of black on white hate crimes. Bruce is in that group too.

          • jim_m

            And my meaning should have been obvious: What you spout off about all the time HERE.

          • Brucehenry

            Yes, you claim it’s what I spout off all the time about here, so it should be easy for you to link to one of my comments claiming all conservatives are racists, the GOP is the party of slavery, or that minorities can’t be racists.

            What’s that you say? You can’t find any?

            Maybe that’s because I’VE NEVER SAID ANY OF THOSE THINGS here or anywhere else. Those things are straw men, Jim, like most of the things you argue against.

          • jim_m

            It Seems to me that right here you are claiming that conservatives are a bunch of racists. Just below you are claiming that conservatives are race baiters for complaining that the brutal murder of a white couple b blacks is not being given the same degree of media focus as far more minor incidents of whites on blacks.

            It’s a double standard and you are too ideologically blinkered to see it.

          • Brucehenry

            You can’t fucking read, obviously.

            I have said, clearly, that some of the racist code and dogwhistles come from cynical politicians and pundits who, although perhaps not personally racist, are not above using that kind of rhetoric to score political points or win elections. I do not think all conservatives or Republicans are racist, and have NEVER said that they are. However I DO think most racists are conservative, and in the past 20-30 years have tended to vote Republican.

            BTW it’s pretty obvious YOU have a racist bone or two in your body, if you sincerely meant that blacks “have a higher sense of victim-hood” nowadays and honestly think they are “looking for a handout” now that we have a black president. That kind of talk is pretty much the definition of bigotry, lol.

            And I didn’t say conservatives are race baiters, I said Malkin and O’Reilly are, and so are the slobbering “pundits” who repeated their counter-factual and opportunistic and cynical claims in the Channon Christian case, on FOX and on the internet.

            The reason I have to say everything twice is because you can’t fucking read, or you are lying. It’s one or the other so just be honest and tell us whether you don’t understand English or whether you are a lying sack of shit.

          • Retired military

            Where as you say that you haven’t lumped al conservatives together (and I don’t believe that you have) you have stated tea party kooks (with no qualification so IMO lumping them all together).
            Also for every Malkin and OReilly you have the Sharpton, the Chris Matthews, the Dan Rathers, the Rachel Maddows, the Juan Williams, the Eugene Robinsons, and the list goes on and on.
            You mention Fox as if it is the standard of the industry when it is the outlier, What about MSNBC, CNN and CBS? They are all at least as biased as Fox and with MSNBC I would say at least 3 times as bad.
            You mentioned Channon Christian but as I mentioned above you have the Cindy Sheehan on the left. AKA media darling up until the day Obama became president. Have you seen her for the past 5.5 years?
            You points whether valid, inflated, or your own opinion or either IMO (and read that is IMO) invalidated, or obscured by the fact that you seem to fail to acknowledge or else ignore that the left in most cases make the right look like pikers in the nasty political stuff and has the majority of the MSM to back them up or cover for them.

          • Brucehenry

            So let me clarify then. There are Tea Party members who talk sensibly about smaller government and less taxes, and then there are Tea Party KOOKS who talk about “watering the tree of liberty with the blood of tyrants” and scream about INPEACH and suchlike kooky nonsense.

            As to race baiters, I was talking specifically about that one case when I mentioned Malkin and O’Reilly and the slobbering idiots who hopped on their specious bandwagon and made rubes of Jim and Walter.

            But I agree with you that MSNBC is absolutely even more biased than FOX. I can’t watch it at all it’s so blatant, at least FOX makes an attempt to pretend they’re not biased. MSNBC doesn’t even try.

            I don’t know what Cindy Sheehan has to do with this thread but in my recollection she was fading long before 2009. She had become kind of a sad joke even before she announced in 2008 she would run against Pelosi for Congress. Nobody was talking about her any more by then, she was, like, sooo 2006.

          • Retired military

            I was comparing the case where the white couple
            were attacked and your talking about Oreilly discussing them
            vs the fawning press coverage of Sheehan and her
            treatment by the press from about 2002 to at least 2006
            I think you will agree. OReilly mentionging one thing for a day or 2 doesnt
            come near the years of positive press coverage Sheehan got.

            As for those calling for impeachment.
            I think Obama is at least as guilty as Nixon was
            in the cover up of a scandal. Nixon lost because he
            pissed off folks in both parties about other things.
            If I thought impeachment would have a chance I would be for
            it as far as Obama is concerned since I think he has committed
            impeachable offenses. Since it is impossible to carry through
            I am against it.
            I have said before that Obama could be shown raping a 10 year old
            boy at the podium of the state of the union address and the dems
            would still not vote for impeaching.
            Would you like for me to link to Conyers holding his face impeachment
            hearings during the Bush era? Once again Bruce I believe you look
            at the right, see things you disagree with, but fail to see ( either
            intentionally or not) the left doing exactly the same thing.

            Sorry for formatting. I am copying and pasting since
            I seem to be having so much trouble with actually typing
            something into the comments field. Faster to type into
            word pad and paste into comments block.

          • Brucehenry

            Our recollections differ, but Sheehan’s son wasn’t killed until 2004. The war didn’t start until 2003, so I’m pretty sure nobody had heard of Sheehan in ’02. My recollection is that she didn’t appear in the radar until ’05, and what kept her in the public eye was mostly FOX, as her statements and behavior grew more and more outrageous.

          • Retired military


            I didn’t feel like googling when she first appeared.

            However you cant really blame Fox for the press coverage of the Bush ranch camp out that Sheehan did.


            “Cindy Sheehan” + “NY times”

            41k hits

            130k hits





            The numbers tend to disagree with you Bruce.

            Feel free to follow the links and see has to say about Sheehan.

            Here are a few examples

            Cindy Sheehan and NY Times
            The swiftboating of CIndy Sheehan
            Of the many deaths in Iraq, One mother’s loss
            Mother who lost son in Iraq continues fight against war

            Cindy Sheehan: Moter of a soldier: Mother of a movement


            ABC reporter trumpets Cindy Sheehan’s anti war protest


            Cindy Sheehan, Protestors gather outside Bush libary
            Cindy SHeehan breathes life into Anti IRaq war movement

            It was only after She started attacking the left (like Pelosi)that the left started dropping her like a hot potatoe.

          • Retired military

            BTW Bruce
            I live about 50 miles from Crawford
            I remember that media circus.

          • Brucehenry

            You do know that many of the millions of Google “hits” are links to right-wing sites bitching about Sheehan, right? And that many more are from lefty sites trying to make her some kind of martyr/heroine? Proves very little, and again, I don’t know what Sheehan has to do with anything we’ve been discussing here.

          • Retired military

            I fully admit that there are as many links to left wing
            sites as to right wing sites. You are the one who stated FOX news kept her in the limelight. I simply showed evidence to the point that you were incorrect in that statement. You have shown nothing contrary to prove it correct.
            Be honest here Bruce. Sheehan was glorified by the left for years
            She was brought up because of the Channon Christion discussion earlier.
            You mentioned Oreilly and Malkin basically making a marty of that case
            I replied back with the darling of the left Cindy Sheehan. She is the Shannon Christian of the left X about a 10,000.
            The glorification and matyrdom is done by both sides.
            The left has a much larger sounding board.
            If you deny that than I have to be the one to call you naive then.
            Or disengenous. Your choice.

      • Retired military

        By definition a friend is not someone whom you mistrust.

        • jim_m

          Apparently, it is for Bruce.

  • yetanotherjohn

    Obviously a racist to suggest that the race card is maxed out. The dems will constantly party on race relations like it is 1964 forever.

  • RichFader

    If I were Janet Reno’s point guy on the Elian Gonzales thing, with the child-refugee thing being as big as it is, I’d be trying studiously to stay out of the public eye right now.

  • Retired military

    Anyone else having issues with editing posts or cutting and pasting text?

  • Retired military


    simple question and I hope that you answer.
    I even ask that noone else responds to your answer or use it in future posts but
    I have no control over that.

    Many high ranking folks on the left have said or insinuated
    that much if not all of opposition to Obama is due to racism.

    What % would YOU say (think) is due to racism?
    I would even be satisified with an answer like most, some, less than half, more than half, etc

    Not trying to trap you here just trying to get an answer to a question.
    If you dont answer than I wont ask again.

    I will even explain why I ask.

    You have stated and I agreed that race relations have not been set
    back 50 years by either Obama, or Holder or both.
    Yet there are hundreds of calls from talking heads, MSM, politicians on the left, and Holder
    himself that racism is if not the root, the major cause of opposition to Obama’s policies. If they
    feel this way than I have to wonder how they feel race relations are now compared to 50 years ago.

    And I really do ask others not to respond to this post or Bruce’s reply. Thank you

    • Brucehenry

      Some. In some cases none. In many cases more than a little. And I don’t know of any statements by Holder that racism is “if not the root, the major” cause of opposition to Obama’s policies.

      I also suspect that many of the politicians and conservative strategists, who may not be personally racist, are not above using racial codes and dogwhistles in their attempts to obstruct and oppose Obama.

      Hence the schtick about how he is a lazy man-child who plays too much golf, and Gives Away Free Stuff to lazy freeloaders. If you can’t see the racial overtones of talk like that you are naive in my book.

      Hence the attempts to appeal to racists who fancy themselves intellectuals with talk about an “anti-colonialist world view” and reminders of his “exotic” background and the like.

      Hence the tacky and repugnant rumor-mongering about how his white mother (who had sex with black guys! tsk tsk) was in nekkid pitchers and how his wife, described as a “wookie” is a domineering harpy just like the big fat loud black women that irritate and scare the shit out of lots of white folks.

      I’m an old man. I’ve lived in the South all my life. I don’t close my eyes to reality. This shit is real, to whatever extent you agree or disagree it doesn’t matter. You know it’s there.

      • Retired military

        Thanks for the response.

        Trying not to break my promise to not reply but I don’t think this will violate it as you have said a few times that I may be naïve or the like. So am addressing that rather than your answer to my question.
        Maybe I am a bit. Maybe my world view is just a bit skewed due to my surroundings for the past 35 or so years around the military. Sure there is racism in the military but maybe it is not as prevelant or as much a part of every day life as it is in some areas. Or maybe it is just me looking at the world through my eyes and experiences. Who knows. If you think me somewhat naïve then consider my background and world view and experiences in that assessment as well.
        Going to bed. Take care.

        • Brucehenry

          I agree that, thanks to liberal Harry Truman, the military is the closest thing to a color-blind meritocracy this country has. And thanks to liberals Clinton and Obama, the military will soon, or at least someday, be an environment where women and gay people will be on a completely equal footing with straight men, and that’s a good thing.

          • Retired military

            I always rank Truman as one of the top 3 or so presidents. Not for integrating the military but for making the toughest decision I think any president has had to make in the history of the country.

          • Walter_Cronanty

            I don’t know if I’d rank him in the top 3, but you’re right – he was a man and made a very tough decision. Not only that, he wasn’t a man who constantly boasted about how he was a better _______ [fill in the blank] than anyone else, like our current resident of the White House.
            Most importantly, he grew as a man and a president while in office. He didn’t shrink into an empty shell of what he promised when campaigning. I don’t know of any president who has come up so very short of every expectation of the majority of voters and almost all MSM when he took office, as Obama.

      • jim_m

        Perhaps the difference between how you see things and how others see things is that some of us grew up in an integrated society where we were taught to treat people as individuals regardless of race, religion or any other issues.

        So some of us se obama as a “lazy man-child who plays too much golf, and Gives Away Free Stuff to lazy freeloaders” and that is simply an accurate description of what he does. We would give that description to anyone who acts as he does.

        The problem with accusations of racism is that you are instantly making a claim to understand the hearts of those who make the criticism. You don’t ever bother to look at the actions of others and what they actually do, you read their words and you see them through the lens of your own experience and you project that upon what they say. You don’t ever bother to consider that there might be some foundational truth to what they say.

        Sad really, that you cannot escape your own prejudices so you are bent on ensuring that they are preserved in the next generation one way or another.

        • Brucehenry

          Says the Least Self Aware Man On The Internet, lol. And the biggest liar.

          Dude EVERYBODY sees the world through the lens of their own experiences. It’s called growing up, growing old, gaining wisdom, you moron.

          • jim_m

            I was giving a serious response. I think that both you and I see things based on our experiences,which are vastly different. I did not grow up in a community that had a history of racism or racial issues, nor was my home such that tolerated any.

            Sadly, despite my trying to explain how our different experiences lead us to different conclusions about the world around us you can only be an asshole about it.

          • Brucehenry

            Well thanks for making that clear, Jim!

            I guess when you used the pronoun “you” instead of “we” in your little sermon I assumed you meant that I was the only one, lol.

            You really are dishonest as hell, Jim.

          • jim_m

            In that paragraph I started the third paragraph (the paragraph that does not talk about my position but that of others) with the pronoun “one”. Everything that follows should be understood to relate to that abstraction. There is another way we have difficult communicating. Only one of us speaks English.

          • Brucehenry

            The word “one” is not in that comment at all. Except in the phrase “one way or another,” so, not a pronoun.

            So you’re right, only one of us speaks English — me.

          • jim_m

            refresh your screen

          • Brucehenry

            I replied to the original post. Pardon me if I type so slowly you had time to proofread and correct. I make at least some effort to proofread before I hit “post.” Not always successfully, so there’s that.

          • jim_m

            And my opinion is further solidified by your refusal to address the serious content of my remarks. You are really interested primarily in projecting your 1950’s experience onto today’s society and you don’t want for society to move on from that. Sorry, but the rest of us are not the neanderthals that you seem to want to remain.

            There was no indication that anyone was typing when I altered my response. I generally do not alter it once someone responds or starts to, and as with this comment I cut what I was going to add above and pasted it into this comment.

          • Brucehenry

            What serious content? That all of us are the product of our experiences? Wow — so profound. You are truly an original thinker.

          • jim_m

            Yes, and you are refusing to accept the fact that other people did not grow up in the backward, uneducated racist society that you did and unlike you, we do want to . You are part of the problem, trying to project your childhood onto today/s society and demanding that everyone be evaluated using the understanding of 60 years ago.

            People simply aren’t the same as they were back then. Assuming that they are is dishonest and holds this nation back. But then that is exactly what the left wants.

          • Brucehenry

            I didn’t lapse into a coma in 1970 when my high school was integrated and wake up in 2001, Jim. I’ve been accumulating experiences all along, as have you and as has everyone else.

            I know things are better than they used to be. I never claimed the US, or the South for that matter, is some racist hellhole.

            I am simply acknowledging that old-fashioned racism still exists and is sometimes — well, often, really — used by cynical politicians and pundits for their own purposes. Your mileage may vary, of course, although your sneers about how blacks cling to “victim-hood” and are “looking for handouts” makes me suspect you ain’t nearly as enlightened as you pretend, with your air of superiority.

            I know it still exists because my nearly 60 years of experience has taught me that “I’m-no-racist-but” racism is still racism. That the “who-me?” sayers are usually bigoted assholes and that the He Who Smelt It Dealt It School Of Racism Detection is the equivalent of Phoenix University — it’s a scam to dupe the rubes.

          • jim_m

            Yeah, but your claim that no one can say that obama is a lazy do nothing and not be completely racist is founded in the fact that you cannot get past your childhood.

          • Brucehenry

            Number one, that’s funny coming from the guy who was just complaining about making assumptions about other people’s hearts, or whatever silly vapid point it was you thought you were making.

            And number two that’s not what I have said (what a surprise you can’t fucking read!). I’ve said that the politicians and pundits who keep hammering that theme are using racism for their own purposes. To elaborate, it plays on the stereotype of the black man as a man-child who is eager to blow money on expensive vacations and wants all the perks of a job without doing the actual work. I guess you, in the rarefied bigotry-free atmosphere in which you were raised, were unaware of that one. Dumbass. Can’t-fucking-read dumbass.

          • jim_m

            So you completely missed my point. Your original statement was ” If you can’t see the racial overtones of talk like that you are naive in my book.” Which is stating that any such statement or criticism is inherently racist. You are so willing to see the potential racism but unwilling to see where some people may not be racist at all but have legitimate and factual reasons for those opinions.

        • Retired military

          I stated that I would not reply to Bruce’s statements. The reason being I didn’t want him to feel that I was trying to trap him or use his words against him.
          I thank Bruce for his serious reply. I asked others to not reply and you chose to do so. I cant stop you. I cant even say it was unwarranted. I am only doing what I said what I would do.

          • jim_m

            I wanted to explain myself to you. I have tried to engage Brucce in a polite and reasoned conversation.

          • Retired military


          • Brucehenry

            A polite and reasoned conversation, of which your third comment begins “FUCK YOU Bruce,” lol. Another couple of fuck you’s and two or three dumbasses later we are engaged in a polite tete-a-tete.

            Damn glad we’re not having this polite and reasoned conversation in the same room we may have come to blows, heavens no!

            But srsly, Jim, I will grant that there may be the occasional observer who spouts “lazy goodfernothin golfplayin vacation taker” type talk and is NOT a racist or the dupe of racist rhetoric, but I happen to think those occasional observers are few and far between. Maybe you know some of them, and in between discussing how blacks nowadays seem to have a heightened sense of victimhood and a greater desire for handouts (THANKS HOLDER!), you can tell each other what a shiftless layabout the president is, and oh btw his wife is a loud smartass harpy and a wookie and her name is Moochelle.

            Because she’s an animal, get it? Haw haw.

            Yeah no racism around here nosiree.

          • jim_m

            Of which I was forced to forsake that approach because you responded like an ass.

            You are entitled to your opinions regardless of how backward and wrong they are.

            And yes, criticizing michelle obama on her appearance is nothing new. She is not attractive to many people and she is decidedly arrogant and condescending and has stated repeatedly how she hates this country. Do you honestly think that people like her because she is so proud of the fact that she hates the US?

          • Brucehenry

            Yes I see now the “criticism” of a black man that just happens to correspond to 300 year old stereotypes is just coincidental. The “criticism” of his wife that involves calling her an animal and being a bossy “arrogant” harpy, as black women have been denigrated since Stepin Fetchit movies, is coincidence too.

            And when the ever so sincere and non-prejudiced Newt Gingrich repeats the canard of an “Anti-Colonialist Kenyan worldview,” that has absolutely nothing to do with trying to make Obama exotic and foreign, one of those others, not a Real American like us white folk. Just a coincidence.

            Yeah I guess I’ve been misjudging the people who begin their (seemingly) racist jokes and comments with the phrase “I’m not a racist but…” I should just realize that whatever bigoted shit falls out of their pieholes it’s probably just a misinterpretation on my part, since they were born in the 60s or 70s instead of the 50s like me. And they couldn’t possibly be racist, see, because MLK and integration.

            Lesson learned, Jim. I won’t trust my own experiences and intuitions any more, since you tell me that people born in the decades after the civil rights movement aren’t, and couldn’t, really, be racist assholes. Wish I had listened to you earlier, I might be friends with more people and we could sit around discussing those chip-on-the-shoulder black people who always seem to want a handout nowadays.

          • jim_m

            I’m not old enough to remember black women being called harpies, but it isn’t like women in general have been called that. I don’t see any criticism of her that is solely or even predominantly racial.

            My point is that the left assumes that there is no criticism that is not racial and that if there is even the tiniest component that is racial that all of that criticism is tainted and therefore can be dismissed in its entirety.

            What I find remarkable is that you think that calling a man lazy, who has a very public reputation for shirking his responsibilities and for taking time to golf rather than to attend to his responsibilities as president, is somehow solely a racist thing. You are hiding your head in the sand and squealing “racist” when you know damned well that there is a valid criticism here. You make yourself look like a fool and appear as though you are dishonestly covering for this behavior. You would not tolerate it is a republican but because obama is black you somehow believe that he should be held to a lower standard.

            WHat is it Bruce? Is a black man simply incapable of performing the job as well as a white man and holding obama to that standard is somehow racist? I suppose that if racism is expecting a black person to do his job then we are racists.

            Frankly though, I think you are a racist for the presumption that obama is genetically incapable of doing his job. I think that you turn racism on its head with your claim that obama is incapable of doing as well as a white man and should not be criticized as a white man would be.

            Here’s a test: IS there any criticism that you would say is not in any way racist when it is leveled at a black man? I don’t think that you can claim that. There is always some bullshit excuse for how conservatives are using code words and dog whistles.

            I really do think that you believe that obama is genetically incapable of doing as well as a white man and that criticizing him for that is racist.

          • Brucehenry

            Full of strawman nonsense as usual, with lies about “your claim” and yada yada. Are you even capable of honesty?

            And I don’t want to hear any accusations from a guy who “sincerely believes” that blacks have a “higher sense of victim-hood” these days and that they seem to want “even more handouts.”

          • jim_m

            I’ll just note that you refuse to respond to my request that you identify whether or not there is any criticism of obama that you would not consider racist.

            I think that pretty much confirms all of my claims about your position.

            The fact that you respond with additional accusations of racism against me doubly confirms my conclusions.

            When confronted with the truth about their dishonest accusations of racism the left always doubles down.

          • Brucehenry

            The “Race card card” in all its ugly glory.

            “I think that pretty much confirms…” Ha ha so I ignore your stupid silly challenge and that confirms all of your claims, huh? Ooooookay.

            But just to fuck with you, here’s some: The criticism that he’s taken the drone war to crazy lengths isn’t racist, and I agree with it. The NSA stuff is very disturbing and not racist. The fact that he hasn’t had the bankers and speculators who wrecked the economy in 2008 frogmarched to prison can be criticized without being racist. That’s just a start.

            Accusations? What accusations? Just repeating what you’ve told us all: that you “honestly believe” that blacks nowadays have a heightened sense of victim-hood and want more handouts.

          • jim_m

            I note that you omit the IRS, the contraception mandate, Fast and Furious, the GM recall scandal, the GM take over and financial give away to unions, the NLRB, The New Black Panthers, Solyndra, Keystone…

            Obviously I can go on and on about substantive issues that many people disagree with that have nothing to do with race, yet you are still saying the most criticism of obama has mostly to do with his race.

            It boggles the mind that you think that people object to these things simply because he is black when there is ample evidence going back decades that people have objected to these sorts of things when a white man was president.

            So when I say you are playing the race card it is because of these facts. You don’t acknowledge the possibility that people have predominantly substantive policy differences with obama. You rush right out and say that it is racsim.

            That is where the defense of obama becomes playing the race card. Address the issue directly and leave out the race part. Otherwise you are making what is probably a very minor part of the objection the major part and you are exacerbating the racial tension rather than lessening it.

          • Brucehenry

            Guess you missed the “that’s just a start” part, lol.

            Some of your list includes valid criticisms and some are Zombie Lies, and some are “scandals” only in the minds of conservatives, but I’ll agree that if you buy into their premises most of them have little if anything to do with race.

            However, I have never said (and neither has Holder or Obama) that EVERY and ALL criticism of Obama is race-based. On this thread, I have mostly emphasized the “lazy-ass black president” meme, for instance, with a little of the “Michelle is a fat hairy animal” thrown in for good measure.

            Also however, even you should admit that when a critic has a history of making racist comments and observations, such as, say for example, blacks have a higher sense of victim-hood nowadays and are greedy for handouts, one can be forgiven for suspecting that much of their “criticism” may spring from a visceral dislike of black folks.

          • jim_m

            Or one could have a visceral dislike for sloth and freeloading. I think that you will see a lot more of those complaints than the other.

            [edit]Note, that I have not been calling obama lazy. I have said that he is disengaged and that he shirks his responsibilities. He avoids getting things done. that is different from lazy. I think he spends a great deal of energy avoiding doing his job.

          • Brucehenry

            “Sloth and freeloading,” huh? LOL.

          • jim_m

            See my edit.

          • Brucehenry

            Yes I see that you have redefined “lazy” such that “shirking responsibility” and “avoiding getting things done” and “spends energy avoiding doing his job” isn’t part of the definition. L.O. Fucking. L.

            A distinction without a difference. You are joking, right?

            Sounds a lot like Joel Chandler Harris’s Brer Rabbit to me.

          • jim_m

            You obviously have never been a procrastinator. I see obama spinning his wheels in indecisiveness on many issues. Whether this is incompetence (like in Afghanistan) or in political calculation, trying to run out the clock without having to make a decision (like Keystone), it still takes effort.

            So yes it does take effort to avoid doing things.

          • Brucehenry

            Ask my wife if I’ve never been a procrastinator lol.

          • jim_m

            And it takes effort! I say that from experience myself.

          • Brucehenry

            Well, a little less effort than mowing that damn 6 inch grass to be fair.

          • Retired military

            You speak as if you are in a world where the left doesn’t do the same crap.
            How many times has Obama said things like “the science is settled” on global warming? When it is no where near settled.
            How many times have people have their deeply held religious views pooh poohed as “a man trying to control my womb”?
            How many times must we here about the war on women when mothers get arrested for leaving their 11 year old at a park while they work yet an 11 year old can get an abortion without her parents permission?
            How many times must people who aren’t racist be called racist simply because they disagree with things like
            Big govt, abortion, higher taxes, open borders, etc and h have disagreed with them since well before Obama became a IL senator much less a US senator and POTUS?
            You act as if leftist politicians never pinged Bush on golf, talked about his trips to Crawford, number of vacation days, etc etc.

            How many times must black conservatives be called House n*ggers, uncle toms and oreos?

            Hell you had Harry Reid calling Clarence Thomas white within the past month or so. Do you think that that was a mistake when he said “5 white men”??

            You act as if the press didn’t crucify Bush for 8 years and do their absolute best to cover up for Obama while declaring him so much smarter than the rest of us that we just don’t understand his greatness.

            You and Chico both (and I absolutely hate to put you in the same category) simply seem to deny or at best gloss over what the left does and simply point to the right and proclaim how horrible they are when the left does exactly the same and in a lot cases worse.

            Not only do you not acknowledge it you act as if these things don’t happen nor have ever happened.

          • Brucehenry

            This is not a matter of both sides do it, RM (which of course they do).

            My entire point has been that, one, the claim that “race relations have been set back” because of Obama and Holder’s words and actions is a specious claim. As evidenced by the fact that, in all of our daily lives, there is no more mistrust and suspicion in 2014 than in 2008 as people of different races interact with each other. Only Jim claims that things have gotten worse, that blacks have a chip on their shoulders now that wasn’t there before, and that they are even greedier for handouts than he found them in the past, lol.

            And two, to the extent that “race relations” HAVE been set back, and I’m not granting that they have, conservatives must accept their own share of the responsibility for it. If you, like Jim, refuse to admit that the “lazy shiftless president” meme has a racial component you are free to do so, and to the extent that folks resent that shit, I guess “race relations” have been set back that far. If you, like Jim, don’t see the parallels in that kind of “criticism” and the Stepin Fetchit paternalism of the ancient stereotype of the childlike lazy black layabout I can’t help you.

            Conservatives said NOT A WORD when Bush cleared brush from his ranch in Texas for FAR FAR FAR more days than Obama has vacationed. The guy had just returned from a MONTH LONG vacation in Crawford when 9/11 happened, SEVEN MONTHS INTO his term. If Obama had taken a month off after the first 6 we’d still be talking about it. They said nothing when Bush knocked off every night at 6 pm and was in bed by 10 every single night, just like Grandpa Ron Reagan was. Look it up — at this point in his presidency Bush had been on vacation far more days than has Obama. Yet still the myth is perpetuated. Why? Beats me — Jim assures me it ain’t racism, no fucking way.

            Anyway, I am answering the point of the original article — that Holder’s and Obama’s rhetoric is solely to blame for what this Christie guy claims is a 50 year set back in “race relations.” It’s nonsense even if there HAD been a “setback” — which there hasn’t. The only setback is in the minds of conservatives who don’t like folks telling them their rhetoric is inappropriate.

          • Retired military

            I have stated above. I don’t think race relations have been set back 50 years.
            Ref vacation. I generally have no problem with presidents get away from the fishbowl as DC. We all know and acknowledge that POTUS is never never on vacation. There are always daily briefings etc.
            At the same time I don’t remember Bush during the days of “jobless recovery” which seems to have disappeared during the past 6 years never saying something like “I wake up each day thinking about it and go to each bed thinking about it and it is my top priority like a laser” and goes off golfing.
            Since this topic is race relations I will repeat.
            I have said before and I will say it again.

            Playing the race card is like crying rape when rape did not happen. It cheapens the accusation and causes more problems when actual cases of racism exist.
            I don’t believe you have ever stated or acknowledged and I know that Chico hasn’t that the left has done this time after time after time.
            Does this set back race relations (Which is the topic of this thread)? I honestly don’t know but my gut feeling says yes.
            When someone expresses a deep belief in something and someone else cries racist when race had absolutely nothing to do with their feelings nor the situation then the person being called racist probably will harbor negative feelings from the race card player from that point on. And since race was brought into it for absolutely no reason (other than to shut down someone expressing their thoughts) then that negativity could translate into actions or feelings which would not have occurred had the racism charge been thrown around like something to be used every time you disagree with someone.

            Example. If X calls you an idiot every time you try to make what you see as a valid point pretty soon you aren’t going to take anything X says seriously and start responding back in vehenmous terms as well.

          • Brucehenry

            I’ll agree that there is such a thing as speciously playing the “race card,” and even that it happens frequently. If you’ll agree that there is such a thing as fraudulently playing the “‘race card’ card.”

            In other words, the He Who Smelt It Dealt It card is as phony as the so-called race card. Or at least it can be, and is an easy cop-out.

          • Retired military

            That is an easy one. Of course some fraudulently play the “play the race card” card.
            However, remember that in order for someone to play that the race card has to be played first. either honestly or dishonestly

          • Brucehenry

            Well when racism is present should one just shut up and endure it, for fear of being accused of “playing the race card”? That’s crazy.

          • jim_m

            You should always protest racism, when it is real.

            However, one should also protest the over use of accusations of racism because such bogus accusations erode the force that such accusations have when the racism is real.

            And if one sees racism everywhere (as do people like Jackson and Sharpton and their ilk) then it is more likely that they bring the racism with them and what they see is the projection that comes from their own hearts and not the actual motives and beliefs of others.

          • Brucehenry

            I will grant that Sharpton and Jackson, professional grievance-finders, should be looked on with some suspicion and sometimes manufacture a grievance where none or little existed. That doesn’t mean that ALL suspicions of racism are invalid, or even that every time one of THEM find racism it’s invalid. After all, even corrupt cops catch real crooks sometimes.

            Your assertion of what is “more likely” is based, like mine, on your own experiences and mindset. You shouldn’t use it to dismiss every charge of racism any more than I should use mine to champion every charge.

          • jim_m

            But corrupt cops should not be allowed to be cops because their motivation and judgement is suspect and one cannot be certain when they are right and when they are wrong.

            Racism does exist, I just believe that the claims of many on the left are vastly overblown and are deliberately so for cynical political interests.

          • Brucehenry

            Well we probably just disagree then on the values of “many” and “vastly” and who is more cynical.

          • jim_m

            So you believe that claims by black congressmen that they have been spat upon and called racial epithets by TEA Party people are not over blown despite video evidence that these incidents never happened?

            That’s the crux of the problem. You defend such things and claim that they are not over blown, until the ludicrous position is pointed out and then you back off and say “I meant other things” without pointing out examples.

            It is the vague accusation that causes the most damage. You are effectively demanding that people prove their innocence and you dismiss each individual incident while maintaining the vague condemnation.

          • Brucehenry

            I’ve never taken any position on the validity of the spitting charges. I’ve confined myself here to the “lazy black president” meme.

            If you want to argue with straw men be my guest but I’ll call you out every time you try to pull that dishonest stuff with me.

          • jim_m

            I used the spitting thing as an example. The point was in the latter part of the comment.

            If you are unwilling to admit the validity of my argument just say so. The point stands. You demand that people prove that they are not racist and you give in on every point yet you never give in on the accusation.

          • Brucehenry

            I don’t demand anything except that someone claiming that “race relations have been set back 50 years by Obama and Holder” should accept their own share of the responsibility for that (imaginary) setback.

            I’m certainly not demanding that you retract your “sloth and freeloading” tripe, or your victimhood/handouts comments. I’ll remind you of that as long as it seems humorous to me.

          • Brucehenry

            BTW what IS your argument? Is it that this Christie character is right and that there HAS been a 50 year setback in “race relations” because of Eric Fucking Holder?

            Because if it is, the only evidence you have offered is a vague assertion in some subjective increase in a “sense of victim-hood” and “wanting handouts” by black people, along with a claim that you must brace yourself for “ignorant, bigoted comments” when a black guy discovers your conservatism.

          • Retired military

            ‘Well when racism is present should one just shut up and endure it’
            Absolutely not.

  • ljcarolyne

    “To summarize, Attorney General Holder and President Obama are being judged by the content of their character, not by the color of their skin, and that judgement is negative.” They can go on now and leave. . .go to Hell & stay there, forever.