Pence the Statesman Trounces Kaine the Kook

Sentaor Tim Kaine was perhaps trying to emulate Vice President Joe Biden’s obnoxious debating tactics. If so, he succeeded marvelously. He interrupted Governor Mike Pence dozens of times and indelibly marked himself as a spoiled brat for the remainder of the campaign. As the Washington Post observed:

Someone must have told the Virginia senator he needed to always be on his front foot in the debate, always be the aggressor. It didn’t work. Kaine started the debate talking so quickly and trying to load so many Trump attacks into every answer that it made it virtually impossible to grasp any one attack. In the middle of the debate, Kaine seemed to relax into it — delivering an effective attack on Trump’s comments on women. But that Kaine was the exception, not the rule. When he wasn’t trying to stuff 10 pounds of attack in a five-pound bag in his answers, he was relentlessly interrupting Pence.  Every single time Pence started to level an attack against Hillary Clinton, Kaine immediately began to talk over him. I’m not sure if that was on purpose or not, but it didn’t come across well — at all. One glaring example: As Pence was recounting his personal experience on Sept. 11, 2001, Kaine interrupted to say, “I was in Virginia.” Um, okay. Not a good look.

Once he got the ball rolling, Kaine couldn’t stop himself. He insisted that Trump in Phoenix vowed to deport “everybody,” but Trump actually promised to deport criminal aliens. Contrary to Kaine’s ravings, Trump never called all Mexicans “rapists and criminals.” Kaine insisted that stop and frisk “polarizes the relationship between police and communities,” while Clinton claimed that said policy is unconstitutional. Both parties are apparently unaware that the Supreme Court addressed the issue 48 years ago.

Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968), was a decision by the United States Supreme Court which held that the Fourth Amendment prohibition on unreasonable searches and seizures is not violated when a police officer stops a suspect on the street and frisks him or her without probable cause to arrest, if the police officer has a reasonable suspicion that the person has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime and has a reasonable belief that the person “may be armed and presently dangerous.”

Kaine went on to insist that Trump wants to eliminate the federal minimum wage. Uh, no….wrong again. My issues with minimum wage notwithstanding, Kaine wouldn’t let facts get in the way of what he thought was a good sound bite.

According to Kaine, Trump will only work with Israel if they pay “big league.” The actual quote:

At a news conference in Washington, D.C., on Monday, the Republican presidential front-runner was asked whether he believed the Israeli government should pay for American defense, as he had called for other U.S. allies, such as South Korea, Japan and Saudi Arabia, to do.

“I think Israel will do that also, yeah, I think Israel do — there are many countries that can pay and they can pay big league,” Trump responded.

So, while Trump believes that Israel should help pay for U.S. military defense, he came nowhere near to saying that he would make “big league” money the condition of doing any work with them.

Kaine repeated the Obama talking point that the Israeli military agreed that the Iran deal stopped Iran’s nuclear weapons program. Wrong again:

A top minister close to Netanyahu, meanwhile, directly contradicted Obama’s assertion that Israeli security officials now back the accord. “I don’t know to which Israelis he (Obama) spoke recently. But I can promise you that the position of the prime minister, the defense minister and of most senior officials in the defense establishment has not changed,” Tzachi Hanegbi told The Times of Israel.

“The opposite is the case. The time that has elapsed since the deal was signed proved all our worries that, regrettably, we were justified before the deal was made,” said Hanegbi, a minister who works in the Prime Minister’s Office and who until recently chaired the Knesset’s powerful Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee.

The Defense Ministry used more emotive language to contradict Obama.

“The Israeli defense establishment believes that agreements have value only if they are based on the existing reality, but they have no value if the facts on the ground are the complete opposite of those the deal is based upon,” the Ministry said in a statement.

The Israeli Defense Ministry went on to state:

“The Munich Agreement didn’t prevent the Second World War and the Holocaust precisely because its basis, according to which Nazi Germany could be a partner for some sort of agreement, was flawed, and because the leaders of the world then ignored the explicit statements of [Adolf] Hitler and the rest of Nazi Germany’s leaders,” the ministry said.

“These things are also true about Iran, which also clearly states openly that its aim is to destroy the state of Israel,” it said, pointing to a recent State Department report that determined that Iran is the number one state sponsor of terrorism worldwide.

The Defense Ministry further said the deal reached “only damages the uncompromising struggle we must make against terrorist states like Iran.”

Kaine told an additional truckload of lies, but I won’t reproduce them all. As Governor Pence said during one of Kaine’s rants, “Oh, please. Come on.” This debate was a no-contest in favor of Pence.

Cover-up Clinton
Oklahoma GOP Disgusts Me
  • Commander_Chico

    Pence beat Kaine on personal style and tone, but sucked when he started talking neocon bullshit like “confronting” “small and bullying” Putin and bombing Assad.

    I don’t get these fools who want to fight a war with Russia (7000+ nukes) over Syria. I’m with Putin – Assad is 100+ times better than the jihadis the USA, Saudi Arabia is backing.

    As Scalia alludes to as an Israel-firster, it’s all about eventually attacking Iran 4 Israel.

    • Brett Buck

      So, when Reagan “confronted” similar bellicose Soviet leaders in the 80s – much more aggressively than Trump is going to do – was there a war then? Were nukes flying back and forth? Because it doesn’t ring a bell to me.

      Putin is aggressive and threatening because he knows for certain that no one will oppose him in any meaningful way. Just exactly like all the previous times the world chose appeasement. Weakness has always led to war. And, before every major conflict, there have been various whinging hand-wringers such as yourself begging for “peace” or isolation that always leads to a greater conflict. As usual, people such as yourself cause the problem you are worried about, and never ever learn their lessons from history.

      And of course, since you are a classic anti-semite. you have to blame the issue on Israel. That is also in common with a long line of simpering fools who see Zionist conspiracies behind every tree. Never mind that the people vowing to kill or convert every single person on earth are rapidly acquiring the means to carry out that threat. That’s not important, you just need to get your digs in on the Jews.

      • Commander_Chico

        Get real, open your eyes. You are 100% a sucking swallower of MSM propaganda. Do you get your news from CNN?

        Putin is reactive, not aggressive:

        1. Ukraine was about 50% Russian-speaking, 50% Ukrainian speaking. USA and EU destabilized elected government of the Ukraine because the elected president wanted a treaty with Russia and rejected joining the EU. EU and USA supported mobs in Kiev which forcefully overthrew elected president. The new government took anti-Russian measures, including banning the speaking of Russian in government offices. What Putin did was a reaction in Russian-majority areas. EU and USA destabilized stable situation.

        2. Assad is a secular dictator who is a long-term ally of Russia, including giving them a naval base at Tartus which goes back to the USSR days. The Assad family was also a military ally of the USA in Desert Storm – Syria sent troops to fight alongside the USA, UK and France. After disturbances from Islamists, the USA sent weapons and training to rebels, and continue to send weapons in. Again, WE are being aggressive to destablize the status quo. Why? Because Assad is also allied with Iran, and Iran must be “regime changed.” Five years ago you could visit Aleppo, have a beer in an outdoor cafe, watch the unveiled women walking by. Syrian Christians support Assad because they know what will happen when the jihadist clients of the USA and KSA take power – same as what happened in Iraq!

        3. To compare Russia today and the USSR is ridiculous. The Warsaw Pact is mostly NATO and the USSR is dismembered, including the NATO Baltic states. But these Obama and neocon clowns want to push further.

        4. Throwing out the “anti Semite” epithet in response to criticism of the policies of the foreign country of Israel is faggotry.

  • pennywit

    Kaine’s debate strategy was pretty bad. Insults and taunts were effective against Donald Trump in the first debate. But Pence isn’t Donald Trump. Attack Trump, you get under his skin really easily, and he turns into Discount Nelson Muntz. When Kaine attacked Trump and repeatedly interrupted his opponent last night, Pence mostly looked like a slightly disapointed grandpa.

  • Retired military

    I watched about 5 min of it and not continuously.
    What I saw
    Kaine acting worse than Uncle Joe during his last debate. Especially with his throwing out 1 line attacks while interrupting Pense.
    The moderator was obviously biased. Every time that I saw Pence mentioned Hillary the moderator changed the subject and interrupted Pence.
    Kaine trying to do the “I know Kennedy routine” by saying crap like “I have been in Netanyahu’s office” (So fucking what).
    And Kaine interrupting like 10 times.
    I mean really????
    In just the 5 minutes Pence looked much better than Kaine.

    • Brett Buck

      What little I saw, same impression. The guy looked like a mindless buffoon. Focus groups came up with a script that said spew one accusation after another as fast as possible, and that’s what he did. There was no debate or back-and-forth. It was like listening to a recording most of the time.

      VP debates are about as irrelevant an exercise as can be imagined. No one votes for the VP and the position is more-or-less irrelevant. All the candidates have to do is manage to remain upright for a few months and then, they are forgotten until something catastrophic happens.

      • Retired military

        Well with Hillary’s health Kaine’s performance may impact more than normal this election.
        Trump is no spring chicken either. Plus he may get impeached by his own party just because he isn’t establishment and I don’t put it past McCuckold McConnell and Rino Ryan so Pence’s performance may have helped Trump. It certainly didn’t hurt that is for sure.

  • Honesty

    My new name for Kaine…Madman Kaine, only thing missing was foaming coming from his mouth

  • WHO’S THE BUSTER

    On Aug. 12, 2013, in a landmark case, Manhattan Federal District Court Judge Shira Scheindlin ruled stop-and-frisk breached a person’s constitutional rights on two counts.

    “Judge Shira Scheindlin found the NYPD’s practices to violate New Yorkers’ Fourth Amendment rights to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures and also found that the practices were racially discriminatory in violation of the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment.”

    • Scalia

      Her decision does not supersede a SCOTUS ruling. Moreover, it was the manner in which the NYPD used said procedure that ran afoul of her understanding of precedent. In other words, “stop and frisk” does not violate the EPC.

      • pennywit

        Here is the opinion for reference. Also, the Wikipedia article if you’d rather not wade through the entire opinion.

      • pennywit

        Before diving too deeply into the ruling, I think it’s worth noting the the final procedural posture. An appeals court granted a stay on Judge Scheindlin’s pending appeal, but the stay was lifted after New York chose not to appeal.

        While Judge Scheindlin’s opinion is certainly binding with regard to the matters raised in that particular case, I would hesitate to call it good precedent. Because the appellate court granted a stay, I think it’s possible the court foresaw overruling Judge Scheindlin’s decision.

        And at this point, I have a general opinion of stop-and-frisk, but I do not have an opinion Judge Scheindlin’s ruling.

        • Scalia

          Not only was the stay (the remedial portion) granted, but the case was remanded to District Court to be heard by a different judge.

          Bottom line: The Dems are playing fast and loose (as usual) with the facts.

          • pennywit

            This opinion is pretty massive. Honestly, I don’t have the time or the fortitude to read all 198 pages of the darn thing. But I’m glancing over the executive summary … and it looks like RM is right. Judge Scheindlein appears concerned about a couple areas on the stop-and-frisks:

            * The NYPD had a policy of encouraging officer “productivity” — that is, that each officer should conduct a certain number of stops — but did not have in place safeguards to ensure the stops were constitutional.

            * The NYPD had an unofficial policy of targeting the “right” people — largely young black and Hispanic men.

            * The police did not have a clear standard for when to conduct those stops.

          • Scalia

            I did not read the entire ruling, but whatever she said (of course you know this) has no bearing on the SCOTUS’ “stop and frisk” decision. From what I understand, the case, as you state, found problems with racial targeting. Hence, again, we see data manipulation by the would-be liar-in-chief.

          • pennywit

            Indeed. I glanced over the transcript and a couple of the fact-checks just now. The fact-checkers are splitting some mighty fine hairs, based on whether a particular candidate or moderator said or intended to say that the judge ruled stop and frisk was unconstitutional, or the judge ruled that New York City’s stop-and-frisk program was unconstitutional.

            And I thought lawyers ere bad about splitting hairs ….

          • Commander_Chico

            There was no conflict. The point of the NY decision was that people were being stopped and frisked without any observable suspicious facts. Cops just rolled up on any black kid and stopped and frisked him.

          • Scalia

            There was no conflict.

            What do you mean? Who said there was a conflict?

          • Commander_Chico

            You imply that the NY decision departed from Terry v. Ohio.

          • Scalia

            I implied no such thing. Buster appeared to allege that “stop and frisk” is unconstitutional. I was merely pointing out that a district court judge’s decision doesn’t supersede a SCOTUS ruling (if Buster were contending that). Moreover, the DC did not rule said practice to be unconstitutional; it rather found its implementation by the NYPD to be unconstitutional due to racial targeting.

    • Retired military

      SCOTUS ruled it constitutional
      Maybe the DC judge ruled the application of it the NYPD was unconstitutional.

  • WHO’S THE BUSTER

    I saw one of the stations had a focus group and when they asked it they would prefer to reverse the candidates (Kaine as President and Clinton as V.P. and the same for Trump and Pence) every person rose their hands.

    Did you see that you can join the Big League Truth Team? No, I am not kidding, that is what they are calling the new fact-checking initiative. When I first read it I thought it might just be from a gag site, but no it is on the Trump website. Of course, Trump also said yesterday that he would not concede if he lost because the election could not have been fair. This in addition to his calls for people to monitor activity in “other” areas to make sure nothing “funny” is going on. Boy are the cable news networks going to miss this character.

    From the website:

    “The Republican presidential nominee asked his followers on Monday to join the “Big League Truth Team”
    and fact-check the debates live. According to emailed instructions sent
    by the Trump campaign to those who sign up, members will receive emails
    and texts from campaign before, during, and after Tuesday night’s vice presidential debate
    and the two remaining presidential debates. Big League Truth Team
    members are being asked by the campaign to spread the fact-checks via Facebook, Twitter, and email.

    Anybody join? Did you get a hat that says Big League Truth Team?

    • Scalia

      You’re off topic. Do you have anything to say about the debate?

      • WHO’S THE BUSTER

        No, I found it rather boring and inconsequential. It may, however, bolster the political future of Pence as he may compete with and eventually overtake Ted Cruz for control of the evangelical wing of the GOP for no other reason than many people appear to despise Ted Cruz personally.

        I’m sorry, I couldn’t resist the unintentional humor of Big League Truth Team.

  • Paul Hooson

    They both did very well for what they attempted to achieve, although former talk show host Pence was the more polished of the two. Pence’s role was to make Donald Trump appear better than being the perhaps the worst GOP nominee ever. Trump has so few newspaper endorsements for example, that even the poorly informed Gary Johnson has five times the newspaper endorsements of Trump, where most Republican leaning newspapers are ignoring Trump this year. Kaine’s role was to add to Trump’s bad week of weird and erratic behavior, and remind voters of what a poor candidate Trump is.

    Trump has the opportunity to better prepare for this Sunday’s second debate, or else risk further political damage and build on Pence’s strong performance. But, nothing in Trump’s career suggests that Trump will take things much more seriously, as his behavior in school was so poor that his father had to send him to a military school.

    In the end, Pence cannot continue to deny Trump’s crazy pronouncements, if Trump only continues to make such new nonsense statements, because time will run out. Time is indeed running out for Trump, where his lack of discipline and troubled campaign organization don’t look good for a successful election.

    • Scalia

      A lot of liberals canned Kaine’s performance, so you must have been watching with blinders on. Moreover, you appear to be repeating talking points when you refer to Pence’s background in radio. If Kaine had merely attempted to be a gentleman, he would have fared far better in the debate. Kaine was a rank embarrassment.

      • Paul Hooson

        A poll at CNN, as one example found Pence favored by a 48% to 42%. That’s hardly overwhelming. Kaine appeared to have a little bit of bad night, but mostly because Pence was so good at deflection of Trump’s flaws and denying things that Trump actually said. Pence’s style was not to directly answer many questions, which may help to win a debate, but also does not honestly answer a question. Pence’s “Mexican thing” response was a good example of Pence’s debate tactic here.Not a honest response to Kaine’s statement about what Trump actually said about Mexicans, but Pence’s statement smoothed out Trump’s statement, although not honestly.

        • Brucehenry

          “If Kaine had merely attempted to be a gentleman, he would have fared far better in the debate. Kaine was a rank embarrassment,” says the guy who supports the very gentlemanly model of maturity, civility, and decorum Donald J Trump.

          • Paul Hooson

            Trump’s degradation of civil conduct in politics is just one of many very regrettable things about this candidate. Further, he has to be the worst lying and swindling con man ever to run for president. In 1995, after Trump knew full well that he was going to declare bankruptcy after losing over $915,000 by investing in a failed airlines and other ego-enhancing businesses with his name on them, he gave out autographed copies of his “Art Of The Deal” book to bankers he took out huge loans from that he fully intended to stiff. Then he avoids paying taxes for the last 18 years, denying taxes to veteran’s hospitals and VA programs that he supposedly such a champion of. He’s one of the worst men ever to seek the presidency.

            Being under an IRS audit hardly prevents Trump from making his taxes public, but because he’s not nearly as successful as he claims, hasn’t always paid taxes, and has substantial loans from Russian banks and other foreign entanglements, are all likely reasons that his taxes will never be public.

            This is the most dishonest snake-oil salesman huckster ever here. People want to trust their financial futures on this guy who lost his own money and wants you to trust him to spend your own tax money. That takes faith a lot greater than any mustard seed.

          • jim_m

            Says the man who owns and operates a strip club an promotes pornography and who does so without a shred of irony.

          • jim_m

            Paul owns and operates a strip joint and complains that someone doesn’t act like a gentlemen? I’m not sure what is more funny, the irony of his statement or that you are so fucking oblivious that you missed it.

          • Paul Hooson

            I believe in being nice to people and being friendly. I conduct myself like a gentleman.

          • jim_m

            Yes, that certainly accounts for the stories you’ve told about the fights you’ve had at your bar.

          • Whereas I subscribe to Robert E. Lee’s summation of gentlemanly behavior…

          • Scalia

            Bruce once again exhibits his comprehension deficiency.

          • Brucehenry

            And you your capacity for self delusion.

            It’s sad how bitter and grumpy you’ve become since taking on these duties as moderator and contributor here. You used to be fun.

            Now you’re a (slightly) more polite and a (slightly) less pompous and bilious Rodney.

          • Scalia

            I couldn’t care less what you think about my demeanor toward you. I’m the same toward everybody here except you. It’s sad to see how bitter you are about it.

            I would explain why you completely misread my post, but you’ll forget in a couple of days and make the same stupid point. Perhaps you’re trying to emulate Paul or perhaps you both have the same condition.

            I hold you in utter contempt, and I don’t see that changing anytime soon. Like I said (I know I have to repeat myself with you), I’m the same toward everybody else. I disdain liars like Bruce Henry.

            Topic closed.

          • Brucehenry

            OK enjoy your Last Word!

          • Brucehenry

            The first person to use the word “gentleman” here was Scalia. I was commenting on the irony of a person who is going to vote for Trump complaining that KAINE was being a boor for 90 minutes. Trump has been an obnoxious boor since at least the 1980s.

          • Clearly the word was not applied to you.

          • Brucehenry

            Oh, crystal.

          • Walter_Cronanty

            Hey Bruce – you’re in North Carolina, right? Besides rain, are you far enough inland to miss the brunt of Matthew?

          • Brucehenry

            Yes we’ll be fine here in Raleigh. Wilmington, where I have a sister, may suffer some damage. I was just checking on my two other sisters in Daytona Beach/Palm Coast/ St Augustine. Power seems to be out but as far as I know they are OK. Thanks for asking.

            I hope everyone in the Wizbang commentariat who may be in the path of the storm is OK.

          • Jwb10001

            Hope your family along the coast comes through OK and gets power back quickly.

          • Brucehenry

            Thanks

          • Brucehenry
          • Walter_Cronanty

            Yikes. Hope she’s well.

          • Brucehenry

            I think so. I was texting back and forth with her at 11 or so and during our conversation is when she lost power. I told her to save her battery but I’m sure she’d text me if something was really wrong.

            I also have a cousin in Jacksonville who lost a big oak tree — he says it narrowly missed both his house and fence. He must be living right.

          • Walter_Cronanty

            He’s the God-fearing, conservative of the family, right?

          • Brucehenry

            Loooooniest lefty of us all, but he is a man of the “Christian Left,” who is always going on about What Jesus Would Do. Mostly, he says, Jesus would NOT be a rich man. He will vote for Jill Stein despite my pleading with him not to throw away a vote in a battleground state, because, he says, he will never vote for a multimillionaire again.

          • jim_m

            Then your cousin should stay home and resolve to never vote again:

            Stein’s total net worth is estimated to be about $2.5 million as of 2016.

            While she doesn’t have nearly the wealth of any of the other candidates, she still qualifies as a multimillionaire. Johnson is anywhere from 2 to 5x her net worth. Hillary and Trump are in another league altogether.

          • Brucehenry

            Well I told you he was kind of loony but he’s kinfolk and I love the guy. We were kids together.

          • Walter_Cronanty

            My family and I have stayed at Surf City several times, and visited Wilmington – beautiful little city. Hope your sister is well and suffers no damage.
            From what I’ve seen on the Weather Channel, it looks like Daytona/Palm Coast/St Augustine isn’t being hit too hard, but it depends on where you live.
            P.S. Sheppard Smith says your kids are gonna die.

          • Walter_Cronanty

            How’s Wilmington doing this morning? Looks like a Cat 1 now, but pouring rain on NC.
            Hope all of your relatives [and you] are doing well.

          • Brucehenry

            Thanks Walter. Texted my Wilmington sis a little while ago, she replies that she’s safe (she lives miles from the beach) and has a generator so she’s cool. Two of my FL relatives have posted on FB that they are safe and sound and assure me that the others are, so that’s a relief. Appreciate you asking!

          • Walter_Cronanty

            I visited Fla many times and spent a school year at Stetson in Deland [on a good day I can remember a day or two of the time I was there]. In the last 20 years, we’ve spent many vacations at Hilton Head, the Outer Banks and Topsail/Surf City. I really like the Carolinas and always hope that the people there are safe. Glad you and yours are doing OK.

          • Jwb10001

            Pinehurst looks to only get some rain and moderately high winds (20MPH.) Hope all our Florida folks are OK.

          • Walter_Cronanty

            Jwb – How are you doing today. I take it you won’t be playing a quick 18 this morning.
            From the TV, it appears that Matthew has gone down to a Cat 1, but is pouring rain on NC.
            How far inland is Pinehurst? And you?
            Hope all is well, you have power and can reply when able.

        • Scalia

          CNN? Please. We’ve already shown that they weigh their polls in favor of Democrats. If Pence won a Democrat poll, you can rest assured that he won by a much larger margin with regular folks.

          By the way, if you don’t like Trump’s mannerisms, then quit trying to mitigate what Kaine did last night. Trump is a buffoon and a liar. I never said otherwise.

          This post is about the debate last night. If Trump is everything you say he is, what does it say about Clinton that they are so close in the polls? If Pence were the presidential nominee, he’d win in a landslide.

          • Paul Hooson

            It is remarkable that the polls between Clinton and Trump are so close, given that Trump has lost the endorsement of most Republican-leaning newspapers, where even the naive and poorly-informed Johnson has five times the newspaper endorsements, Probably a lot of have-nots think that Trump is rich, not bankrupt or broke, and think they are going to get something for nothing by standing with him, like he’s some rich uncle that’s going to leave them in a will or something, while others see him as the huge phony he is. He is far from some political Moses that has the required skills to lead us to some promised land.

          • Scalia

            Again, what does that say about Clinton? You reduce Trump’s support to a bunch of have-nots? You’re really disconnected, aren’t you?

            People are sick of elitist politicians who say one thing and do another. Whether or not they’re being rational, they’re tired of the status quo.

            Hillary is a bigger liar then Trump is, and that’s one of many reasons she can’t get more traction in the polls.

          • Paul Hooson

            There’s also more than a few misguided conservatives who think they’ll get a more favorable Supreme Court nominee out of Trump, willing to risk everything on some misguided faith that suddenly Trump will perform differently than he ever has in his lifetime and willing to overlook his more than checkered character or his propensity for losing other people’s money.then him shirking responsibility. As far back as the 1980’s, I decided that I don’t like this phony businessman who leaves a lot of people broke who wasted money investing in his many failed businesses and his broken promises.

          • Scalia

            Your objection assumes that Trump has lied about everything he promised. That is simply not true.

            You call conservatives who will vote for Trump “misguided” because they think he might nominate better judges than Hillary? What else are conservatives supposed to do? If we don’t support Trump, Hillary will win. There is NO DOUBT what kind of judges Hillary will nominate (the kind you like). Trump has already submitted an impressive list of judges. None of us believe that Trump’s promises are foolproof, but so long as there’s a chance (a far better one than with Hillary) that he’ll follow through on the list, we’ll go with that over Hillary.

            We’re on to your game, Paul. You want to do your part to discourage conservatives from voting for Hillary because you ardently want her to win. You don’t want conservative judges, so you’ll go with Hillary in spite of the disaster she’s been at home and abroad.

          • Paul Hooson

            Conservatives want to be true believers here, overlooking that Trump has donated over $175,000 more to Democrats than Republicans, giving donations to Charles Rangel, Anthony Weiner, Charles Schumer, Hillary Clinton and others. – Rather than any true loyalty to any political party, Trump appears to donate to candidates in hopes of getting favorable legislation, better tax breaks, influence casino regulations and more self-serving functions. – If he controls the IRS, FBI, Justice Department, CIA as well as appoint judges favorable to what benefits Trump, then where are the checks and balances?

          • Walter_Cronanty

            “If he controls the IRS, FBI, Justice Department, CIA as well as appoint judges favorable to what benefits Trump, then where are the checks and balances?”
            Umm, do you realize you could replace “Trump” with “Clinton?” Do you realize that we are in that situation right now, only with “Obama?” Do you actually believe it would get better, and not worse, with Clinton?

          • Paul Hooson

            She’s certainly no Swiss picnic. But, as much as I dislike her, disagree with her, and just plain find her hard to stomach, I think she does present less potential harm to our republic and national security than Trump. That’s a pretty sad choice. – Whichever wins in the end, I will be a critic of their policies as well as style. I looked at Gary Johnson, but he’s even less bright than Trump, but does have better character than either Clinton or Trump, and will not even come close to winning. Leaving the choice between the objectionable Clinton and the even more objectionable Trump. -I can understand President H. W. Bush’s reasoning here.

          • Walter_Cronanty

            What economic position has Hillary taken that you think will help American business/economy?
            When she was SoS, everything she touched, from Russia, to Egypt, to Libya, to Syria, turned to absolute shit – and you think she’d make America safer?
            And, you’re copasetic with her longtime closest aide and personal friend Huma Abedin [she of Muslim Brotherhood fame] urging Billy to reject an invitation to AIPAC?

            “Huma Abedin, Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton’s closest aide, urged former President Bill Clinton in 2009 to reject a speaking invitation before the American Israel Public Affairs Council (AIPAC), asking his assistant in an email, do “u really want to consider sending him into that crowd?”

            Abedin’s comment about “that crowd” has sparked anger and consternation among Jewish and non-Jewish leaders who consider it hostile to Jews and to the State of Israel. Her comments are raising uncomfortable questions about Abedin’s past and her family’s ties to the Muslim Brotherhood.”

            http://dailycaller.com/2016/10/05/exclusive-huma-abedin-email-attacked-jewish-group/

          • Walter_Cronanty

            “I think she does present less potential harm to our republic and national security than Trump.”

            Yeah, ole Hillary really outshone Trump when it comes to protecting our republic and national security with her decisions in Libya:

            “A closer examination of the run-up to the Libya debacle on September 11, 2012 leads to the irrefutable conclusion that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton knowingly armed radical Islamist terrorists in Libya.

            ***

            LIFG and affiliated jihadis received at least 18 shipments of arms from Qatar with the blessing of the U.S., the Wall Street Journal reports. The arms shipments were funneled through none other than Ali al-Sallabi, the Qatar cleric who brokered their release from prison.

            The Islamists were able to pay for the weapons because Clinton had convinced Obama to grant full diplomatic recognition to the rebels, against the advice of State Department lawyers and the Secretary of Defense.

            These arms shipments are significant for several reasons. It led to the indictment of American arms dealer Marc Turi who was charged with selling weapons to Islamist militants in Libya through Qatar. The charges were dropped this week after Turi threatened to reveal emails showing Clinton had approved the sales.

            Here’s where it gets very sticky for Secretary Clinton. The rebel leaders were on the State Department’s Foreign Terrorist Organization list. It is a direct violation of the law to provide material support for terrorist organizations under 18 U.S. Code 2339A & 2339B. Penalties for providing or attempting to provide material support to terrorism include imprisonment from 15 years to life.

            Nor is the Qatar connection insignificant. Qatar has donated anywhere from $1 to $5 million to the Clinton Foundation, and emails reveal members of the Qatari royal family were privileged with back channel meetings with Secretary Clinton at the State Department. While whipping up support for the Libya military campaign, Clinton told Arab leaders, “it’s important to me personally,” the Washington Post reported.

            Hillary Clinton’s prosecution of foreign policy in Libya crossed several lines: she showed extremely bad judgment by ignoring military and intelligence officials, she let personal interests conflict with U.S. foreign policy and, most importantly, she may have broken the law — again.”

            http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2016/10/06/gen-mike-flynn-why-hillarys-record-on-libya-is-even-worse-than-think.html

          • Scalia

            Conservatives are overlooking NOTHING when it comes to Trump. Hillary Clinton is a national security threat. She’s too incompetent to trust with our nation’s secrets, and she’s a pathological liar on a grander scale than Trump.

            We know all about his donations to Democrats and his liberal past (which should make you happy). The bottom line (Why do I have to explain this again?) is the Supreme Court. Who the next president will put on the court will reverberate for some 30 years. For conservatives, it is critical that we maintain control of the court. We’ve explained this over and over on these boards. You’re following an all-too-familiar pattern. You either have severe memory problems or you’re just too dense to figure out that your arguments are non-starters due to the fact that they were addressed before they were made!

          • Paul Hooson

            I’ll give you that the Whitewater real estate deal was very questionable.

          • Walter_Cronanty

            Whitewater is the LEAST of her crimes. Her numerous, successful cover-ups, from the 90s to today should make your stomach churn. She knows how the systems(s) works, has close and probably compromised acquaintances in high places [see, FBI Director James Comey] and has the media on her side.
            Do you really believe there’s anything she can’t get away with?

  • Merry Anderson (Mer)

    From the website:

    “The Republican presidential nominee asked his followers on Monday to join the “Big League Truth Team”
    and fact-check the debates live. According to emailed instructions sent
    by the Trump campaign to those who sign up, members will receive emails
    and texts from campaign before, during, and after Tuesday night’s vice presidential debate
    and the two remaining presidential debates. Big League Truth Team
    members are being asked by the campaign to spread the fact-checks via Facebook, Twitter, and email.

    Anybody join? Did you get a hat that says Big League Truth Team?

    http://celebritynetworthonly.com/milo-yiannopoulos-net-worth/

    • Scalia

      A little late to the dance, aren’t you?