New White House Press Secretary Tries To Spin His B.S.

On 01/23/17, new White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer tried to spin the B.S. that he gave to the White House press corps on 01/21/17.

According to CBS News, Spicer said on 01/21/17, “This was the largest audience to ever witness the inauguration period both in person and around the globe,” and, “Photographs of the inaugural proceedings were intentionally framed in a way in one particular tweet to minimize the enormous support that had gathered on the National Mall.”

As Robin Hood’s merry men would say to Spicer . . .

Shortly after Spicer’s above-quoted proclamation, PolitiFact gave it a “Pants On Fire” rating.

PolitiFact states, “Spicer suggested 720,000 attended Trump’s inauguration, while organizers said they expected 700,000 to 900,000, and Trump himself estimated 1.5 million. All of those figures are less than the 1.8 million people who attended Obama’s 2009 inaugural.”

So, during his first official press briefing on 01/23/17, Spicer tried to spin the aforementioned falsehood that he told.

From ABC News: “On Monday, Spicer defended Saturday’s statement when he said “this was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration — period — both in person and around the globe,” citing audiences who watched the inauguration online and through streaming services, even though those audience numbers have not been confirmed. When asked by ABC News’ Jonathan Karl about whether or not Trump’s inauguration had a larger audience than that of President Ronald Reagan’s inaugurations, Spicer said, “I’m pretty sure that Reagan didn’t have YouTube, Facebook or the internet.””

That is more B.S. from Spicer, because in his previous statement, he claimed that President Trump’s inauguration had the largest audience in attendance as well as the largest audience not in attendance.

That is not the same as simply saying that Trump’s inauguration was the most-watched inauguration.

Folks, this is an unforced error on Spicer’s part. He didn’t have to rant about the inauguration’s audience size in the first place.

Then on 01/23/17, Spicer misrepresented what he said on 01/21/17. In doing so, he lost credibility.

Shame on him!

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  • Retired military

    My questions is What the fuck does it matter how many showed up for the inaugauration. WHO THE FUCK CARES??? How will that help us get out of $19+T in debt, get 95 million people back in the workforce, help us defeat ISIS??
    I mean heaven forbid the press asks a question about something that really matters.

    If I was Spicer I would have said “I am not here to talk about the inaugiuration. I am here to talk about Pres Trump’s plans for the future of the country” and then went to the next person and the next person and the next until someone asked a pertinent fucking question.

    This question is about as important has your house burning down and you ask the firemen if they think they can save your wife’s petunias.

    • WHO’S THE BUSTER

      It was Trump and his team that decided to fixate on crowd size and chose to drag it out for a few days. How is this the media’s fault?

      • Scalia

        Buster, the media initially pointed out that the crowd size was smaller than Obama’s, but I didn’t see any posts of yours (please provide a link if I’m mistaken) complaining about the media’s fixation with crowd size.

        I really don’t care how big the crowd was. So far, I’m quite happy with what Trump’s been doing. That’s the most important thing.

      • Retired military

        Spicer was responding on inauguaral day to the blatant efforts by the media to try to make Trump seem illegitimate. how can Trump and company fixate on something when they were responding to the hundred or so stories in the MSM about the crowd size. google crowd size and inauguration and you will see plenty .
        https://www.google.com/#q=%22crowd+size%22+inauguration

        hell you have Time, VOX, USA Today, and the MSM list goes on and on. All Negative stories. Spicer is letting the media know that Trump and his admin arent going to be the pinanta whipping boys that Bush and his admin was.

        Why isnt the MSM asking questions like this

        https://pjmedia.com/video/al-gore-dodged-a-question-about-why-his-10-year-warning-was-an-inconvenient-falsehood/

        And why isnt it on the front page of every newspaper. You can bet that if Cheney predicted something and it was wrong then it would make front page NY TImes, CNN, LA TIMES, WAPO et all.

      • They’re obsessively focusing on one throwaway comment. As if, somehow, they put enough emphasis on it they’ll be able to get HRC into the White House. The media is focusing on stuff that DOESN’T MATTER.

        Personally, the more I watch Trump, the more I’m thinking that he’s definitely inside his opponent’s OODA loop. They’re used to dealing with systems and processes that normally take months or years to slowly squeeze out any sort of result.

        Why so slow? Because it’s the way it’s always been done. Hey – if you can stretch the amount of work you’ve got to do out as long as possible, you show how essential you are to the functioning of the country, right?

        But Trump comes from a world where results are expected FAST, and the longer something drags out the more it costs. (Hmmm. That could explain why we’ve got $20 tril in debt…)

        He’s hit the ground running, and he’s getting things done. Saw today he’s cleaning out VA corruption. So far, I don’t have anything to complain about. For more info on the OODA loop – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_loop

        “The key is to obscure your intentions and make them unpredictable to your opponent while you simultaneously clarify his intentions. That is, operate at a faster tempo to generate rapidly changing conditions that inhibit your opponent from adapting or reacting to those changes and that suppress or destroy his awareness. Thus, a hodgepodge of confusion and disorder occur to cause him to over- or under-react to conditions or activities that appear to be uncertain, ambiguous, or incomprehensible.”

        The hilarious thing is that Trump TOLD them what he was going to do. Flat out, straight up – and they didn’t believe him. This wasn’t how it was done in DC! You’re supposed to make noises about fixing a problem – but you’re not supposed to actually FIX it!

        He’s playing chess while his opponents can’t even figure out how to set up for checkers against him.

        • Scalia

          Trump’s not wasting any time. I’m highly anticipating next week’s SCOTUS nominee.

  • yetanotherjohn

    “The media still doesn’t seem to get the fact that by obsessing over how much Donald Trump and his minions obsess, just feeds into the issues that got Trump elected in the first place. Instead of focusing on policy and things that actually matter — like President Trump’s first executive orders he signed on Friday perhaps? — news shows are talking about the stupid stuff Donald Trump wants them to talk about. Crowd size.

    Instead of focusing on policy and things that actually matter — like President Trump’s first executive orders he signed on Friday, perhaps? — news shows are talking about the stupid stuff Donald Trump wants them to talk about. Crowd size.

    If the media actually cared about getting their reputation back and America’s trust back, they might decide to do they’re job and stop with the hair-on-fire screeching over nothings, but they don’t and so they won’t.

    If news outlets and shows like Morning Joe keep this up, they can thank themselves for helping to hand Donald Trump a second term.” http://www.redstate.com/prevaila/2017/01/23/morning-joe-crew-says-crowd-size-doesnt-matter-discusses-for-entire-show/

    Couldn’t have said it better my self. Congratulations David, your part of the media now.

  • Retired military

    Tell you what David. Why not get an official measurement of TRump’s dick. That way the MSM and you can spend hours talking about how it isnt the same length that some republican operative or statisticians said it was or that the girth was 1/1000th of an inch off from the offical press briefing. It would have the same effect and mean the same to people as talking about crowd size of the inauguration.

    • Par4Course

      What exactly do you mean by “an official measurement of TRump’s dick.” Is there really a federal or state official with such duties? Or is there a certification where one with the right training can become certified or licensed? Is there a gender requirement?

      • Retired military

        Gee I dont know. I mean they had Monica when Bill was in the WH and Michael when Obama was in the WH. Maybe that is one of the positions that Trump is going to cut from the federal govt.

  • Paul Hooson

    There was no reason whatsoever for Spicer to spend so much of his credibility capital on something so meaningless like this. Further, the great harm is that it lessens his credibility when our nation faces a true foreign policy or other serious crisis. Even conservative leaning, FOX NEWS SUNDAY WITH CHRIS WALLACE put Chief Of Staff Reince Priebus on the hotseat over these foolish statements by Spicer.

    Some voters favored Mr. Trump in the election because of his lack of experience. Well, they truly have amateur night going on there when they do not conduct themselves in a professional manner like Spicer did, who seemed to define himself as a squirrely type who tells people anything, not to believe their own eyes. Spicer should have some of public relations skills much like even Kellyanne Conway has, to put a good face on everything, and to skillfully spin topics. Instead, we witnessed a very poor amateur handling of a public spokesman role here.

    • Retired military

      Spicer spent 6 min lecturing the media on how they are totally biased including using the bust of MLK fiasco which you fail or David fail to mention. This hasn’t happened since someone dared to ask Obama why he did so poorly on a round of golf. Oh wait, the MSM never asked Obama why he did so poorly on a round of golf. They were too busy sucking his dick to even notice.
      Spicer has shown “the rules” have changed. The one big whine from yesterday is that “OMG they didn’t call on the AP first”. Well Booo freaking Hooo. What a catastrophe. The AP didn’t get first question at a news conference. That’s it boys. Shut her down, the nation is done for.
      I believe we saw a masterful showman spinning his audience (the MSM) like a top until they are stumbling around looking for a corner to piss in in a round room.

      • Wild_Willie

        Bravo! The dem’s just don’t get it…yet. The Trump team is not letting one false item from the MSM without calling it out. They pointed out how GW Bush ignored the hits and the MSM turned the tide on him. Very true. No matter how trivial or how big, call them out.

        Plus I know what “the crowds AND social media worldwide” means. The dem’s like David and Hooson pick gnat shit out of pepper. To their detriment. ww

    • He’s more credible than the LSM.

    • Sky__Captain

      You want amateur night? Check out the last 8 years.
      The Trump Administration has a very long way to go in the amateur department to match 0bama’s.

    • WHO’S THE BUSTER

      Yeah, Kellyanne was smart enough to label them alternative facts. Brilliant!

      • Scalia

        Are you saying that you don’t know what she meant? Do we have to draw you a picture with crayons?

      • Scalia

        The press fell all over themselves when Rush Limbaugh made a remark about a liberal student, but when Chelsea Handler said that she wouldn’t interview Melania Trump because “she can barely speak English,” the press yawns. Does the press consider the Melania story “alternative facts” too?

        • WHO’S THE BUSTER

          I think that story has a prominent place on MSN as of yesterday.

          • Scalia

            Is that supposed to compare with the non-stop Limbaugh coverage?

  • jim_m

    David and Paul and the lefty media were totally trolled by Spicer and Trump. Instead of focusing exclusively on the protests, which they would have certainly done, they spent hours wringing their hands over crowd size and Spicer calling them out on their lies. And that was followed Monday with a presser where the media sucked up to Spicer and complained that he wasn’t following their media caste system for excluding minority viewpoints. No capital was expended at all unless it was the media’s itself.

    Trump is dictating the news cycle on his terms. To these wizened eyes that what winning looks like.

    • Let’s see how long the schadenboner is going to last…

      😉

  • LiberalNightmare
  • Hank_M

    This article is titled wrong. Should have been titled “Media continues to spew bullshit and focus on trivial inconsequential shit”

    And really, after 8 years of the biggest liar ever to inhabit the WH, with a press secretary incredibly enough named “Earnest”, the media is now concerned about truth?

    No wonder Ashley Judd thought it was time for her to make a fool of herself.
    She still came across better than the media does, and she’s friggin nuts.

  • Vagabond661

    Correction: PS calls out media on their lies. Media doubles down on BS.

  • Olsoljer

    What a brilliant article! I am going to agonize over it for years. How do you consistently identify and bring our attention to such critical problems? You have no idea how much I look forward to your next insightful and amazing analysis of our political situations, always on the cutting edge of the issues so important to our nation.

    • Retired military

      I eagerly await his next article on Trump farting at a state dinner.

      • WHO’S THE BUSTER

        Trump has never farted, but if he did, it would be the biggest fart on record and it would smell like roses.

  • Sky__Captain

    It’s going to be a long 8 years for David.

  • Paul Hooson

    Former CIA counterterrorism official Philip Mudd condemned Mr. Trump for using his visit to the CIA and giving a talk where he bragged that he appeared on TIME Magazine’s front cover more times than a popular football player and to tell the nonsense claim that he had the largest ever inaugural crowd in front of the stars that represented 117 CIA fallen officials and agents. And, now Trump makes a new claim that 2.8 million aliens illegally voted in the last election,although Trump’s own lawyers stated in their legal paperwork that they filed to block the Michigan recount that no evidence of voter fraud existed to justify this recount of votes in that close state. What did Mr. Spicer do in all of these above examples? He sought to justify Trump’s false claims in each case.

    • jim_m

      Mudd is a paid analyst for CNN. He has a history of criticism of Trump that descends into personal vitriolic attacks on Trump and his staff. He is far from what someone might consider an objective and reasonable source. Mudd characterized National Security Advisor Michael Flynn as less competent in his job than a waiter. Flynn is a Lieutenant General.

      Mudd’s analysis is apparently based in deep personal resentment and Mudd shows evidence of being seriously imballanced in his remarks. At the very least Mudd’s remarks are not based in reasoned fact but are weighed for the media impact they will receive. He has become a whore for the spotlight. But then maybe that is why Paul likes him. He’s used to hanging with whores.

      • Retired military

        There you go Jim. Letting the facts get in the way of Paul’s post. Shame shame.

        • Paul Hooson

          Which part of Trump’s outright falsehoods the last few days are true then, my friend? His own lawyers filed papers in court blocking the recount in Michigan stating that no evidence of widespread voting fraud or problems took place.

          I thought that the intent of Trump voters was to elect someone better than Obama, not someone far worse…

          • Hank_M

            No one, absolutely no one could be worse than Barry O.

          • Retired military

            He didn’t say that the 3-5 million votes came from Mich did he.
            lets look at Calif.
            a. motor voter law
            b. illegal aliens can get driver’s license there with no one caring if they are illegal or not.
            c. The object of the recount in Mich wasn’t for the dems to try to get the votes to win the state (no one in any recount has overcome a 11k deficit) but to not have the state’s electoral votes counted when the EC met and thus disenfranchising 5+ million voters who voted.
            If you can list his “outright falsehoods” specifically so that I can address them it would be helpful. I addressed the voting fraud that you mentioned.

            And as far as I am concerned Trump has done more in the few days that he has been in office that is good for the country than Obama did in 8 years.

      • Paul Hooson

        While I respect Flynn, he was taken in to believe a comedy fake news story written for laughs as true. Mudd is just one of many former CIA or intelligence officials who are gasping at Mr. Trump’s antics. But, as far as Trump’s policies go, Republican members of Congress supported the TPP trade deal which was great for Oregon farmers and for the import and export trade going out of the Port Of Portland. With one stroke of his pen, Trump damaged as much as $21 billion dollars in trade and business that Oregon does with Asian nations, where China may be the big winner here, selling their goods to these Asian nations and Oregon agriculture, wine, and other products go unsold. These trade deals are far better thought out than Mr. Trump seems to grasp.

        • Scalia

          Typical myopia from Paul. You don’t have the slightest idea why TPP is bad, do you? You only read stuff that you agree with and couldn’t care less what the other side has to say. Why don’t you for once try to understand why there are a lot of people against it and address those concerns instead of looking at Oregon.

          • Paul Hooson

            You’re over there on the Bernie Sanders socialist left on this issue today. Politics makes strange bedfellows sometimes.- Oregon’s business community is heartsick over this today as a heart-punch to Oregon’s agriculture, wine and Port Of Portland trade.

          • Scalia

            You’re over there on the Bernie Sanders socialist left on this issue today.

            Just as I thought. You don’t have a sweet clue.

          • That should read:

            You don’t have a sweet clue.

            Note the full stop.

          • jim_m

            I have noted a distinct shift over the last year in Paul’s cognitive abilities.

        • jim_m

          Are you talking about the pizza delivery story? That was his son. You do understand the difference between a father and son? They are not the same person.

          The TPP was one sided and on balance would have damaged US commerce. Just because you can point to a couple of winners doesn’t mean it was good. This is one case where there was broad bipartisan opposition.

        • Retired military

          “he was taken in to believe a comedy fake news story written for laughs as true”

          Oh sorta like the entire MSM was taken in by that fake news story started on Reddit. They rush out to get out the bad news on Trump without checking.

    • Ha, ha!

  • Brucehenry

    If I hadn’t been reading Wizbang so long I would say it’s unfreakingbelievable how you guys can manage to justify Trump’s adolescent Nuh-uh!s like you are doing.

    Here’s what actually happened. Trump had predicted, with his usual braggadocio, that his inauguration would draw the biggest crowds ever. Of course it didn’t, and when photos were shown in the media comparing his rather meager crowd to Obama’s much bigger one, along with figures for Metro ridership, etc, it HURT HIS FEELINGS.

    On the first full day of his presidency, he sends his new press secretary out to berate the media for reporting true facts, then to spin on his heel and storm out of the press room without answering questions, like a 14 year old girl, mad at her mom for catching her in a lie, stomping upstairs and slamming her bedroom door. The day after THAT, said new press guy insists that IT WAS SO TOO the most-watched inauguration ever, despite indisputable evidence to the contrary.

    Next Trump insists that five million illegal aliens voted in the last election (every single one of ’em for his opponent, natch) or he woulda won the popular vote too. This despite the fact that all 50 state Secretaries of State ( a majority of whom are Republicans) have each reported that there was NO widespread voter fraud in their states.

    The point is not that Trump and the media are arguing about something inconsequential, it’s that, if Trump will insist that something plainly “A” is according to him not “A” but indeed “B,” he will HAVE NO CREDIBILITY when he needs to be believed — say when it is a matter of war and peace.

    This particular inauguration kerfuffle is laughable but the next one might not be so damn funny. Indeed,if 5 million illegal votes were cast that would be a huge scandal, but you don’t hear Trump ordering an investigation into it — because it didn’t happen.

    You guys wanted an internet troll for president and you got one. You really shouldn’t try to pretend that’s not what Trump is — it’s unseemly and undignified to publicly proclaim that Trump is not brazenly lying when he plainly is. You demean yourselves.

    • jim_m

      So your claim is that the MLK bust has been removed from the Oval Office? Interesting.

      • Brucehenry

        Pathetic.

        No, I have made no claims about any bust. Trump is capable of saying things that are true — like, I guess, the bust thingie — but chooses to say many many things that are plainly false.

        The guy is incapable of letting any perceived slight, no matter how little it matters in the scheme of things, just fucking go. He is temperamentally unsuited for this office and every one of you know it.

        PS it wouldn’t bother me if the MLK bust HAD been moved. It’s wingnuts who get all upset about busts, like the Churchill thingie back in the day.

        • Retired military

          We didnt see this kind of things under Obama because the MSM would never even dream of doing any percieved slight against Obama. Hell they had their articles cleared by his admin to ensure that there wouldnt be any pushback.
          Their eIght years of their polishing Obama’s knob are over and now they ware wondering WTF they are supposed to do with a republican who doesnt fit the mold they are used to.

        • brucehemorrhoid writes:

          Pathetic.

          An excellent description of your comments here on Wizbang!

        • jim_m

          Well, you said that Spicer berated the media for reporting true fact. One of the things reported was that the MLK bust had been removed, ergo you are denying that the bust was removed.

          I do believe that the obsession with crowd size was silly and that Trump is stepping on his own accomplishments, but I also think that small minded fool like you are the ones getting upset by the meaningless sideshow which I believe may be calculated to keep you busy whining about bullshit and making yourselves look stupid. Meanwhile, Trump is running circles around your god incarnate and making him look like an adolescent fool, which he was.

          And just so we are clear, obama removed the Churchill bust because he is a racist and did so in a deliberate move to insult and offend an ally. The MLK bust wasn’t removed an the media reported that it wasn’t in a lame gotcha attempt that backfired. You are every bit as pathetic for claiming that this lie is not meaningful. It was calculated by the media to hurt the new administration.

          • Brucehenry

            The bust thing was a deflection and you know it, reported by one reporter and retracted when he was called on it. NO ONE, after the truth came to light, continued to insist that it had happened.

            By contrast the President and his press secretary insisted, and CONTINUE TO INSIST, that his inaugural was the “most watched in history,” despite evidence in the form of photographs, Nielsen ratings, Metro ridership, and social media hits that prove otherwise. This is manifestly because Trump cannot handle any perceived slight, and can’t bear to contemplate that anything he does is perceived as less than “the best ever.”

            Or perhaps his motives are more calculated, and much more sinister:

            https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16143039_10211901376193518_5366875574433951300_n.jpg?oh=61b391006dd5eacd950a8793d9278c33&oe=591F25A9

          • jim_m

            The bust report was from a pool reporter and was repeated something like 3000 times before it was retracted. But you don’t care because the lie had its effect and you know that the retraction was not meant and virtually no one saw it.

            I really don’t care about the crowd size and have already said that it was a mistake to complain about it, but suggested that it might have been a deliberate move to distract from other ussues, which it has.

            But you are bent because I have actually stated that I thought it was a mistake and therefore prove your insults toward me wrong. But you are not man enough in your pissy hat to admit it.

          • Vagabond661

            And retractions are never remembered. The Looney Left knows this.

          • Brucehenry

            But it WAS retracted, however belatedly, and since then no one has continued to insist it is true. Yet Spicer and Trump continue to insist their “alternative facts” about crowd size ARE true. Which they ain’t.

          • jim_m

            There is a difference between being unprovable and being false. It has been make plain that the claims are not provable either way. You are once again just putting forth your nutjob talking points and they are meaningless.

          • Retired military

            Bruce
            How does the media normally do things like this (retractions).
            Accusation
            Page 1 4 inch high headlines above the fold.
            Retraction
            Page C47, size 6 font below the ads for women’s hygiene products.

          • jim_m

            Bruce, there is an uncertainty about crowd size as the National Park service stopped providing estimates in 1995. There are no good methods of estimating online streaming views as there are a myriad of sources of that content.

            And why should we demand that the press traditions be maintained? Why doe the AP get the first question in EVERY press conference? What is the justification? Oh yeah, it is a crony capitalist right of seniority established not because they are good at what they do but because they have ingratiated themselves with previous administrations.

            Why are the front rows in the briefing room reserved for certain agencies? Again, the only excuse is cronyism. The left wing media is getting its ox gored and deservedly so. The media hierarchy allowed a racist crank like Helen Thomas to have exposure she never deserved. From her seat she promoted a pro-terrorist, antisemitic and anti-American agenda. And this was allowed why? Because of so pseudo-aristocratic tradition that is by definition antagonistic to the ideals of this nation.

          • Brucehenry

            I don’t know, ya got me. I have no problem changing things up. I wasn’t even aware that AP DID have first crack by “tradition.” Sure, whatever, let somebody else go first it’s fine by me.

          • WHO’S THE BUSTER

            Not lies, but instead, alternative facts.

          • jim_m

            Hey, you were the guys defending “Fake but accurate” I don’t see where you have a leg to stand on.

    • Retired military

      Bruce
      You have to admit one thing.
      The Press arent talking about things like the abortion spending ban, the Obamacare EO, the cabinet ministers that are getting approved, Trump’s pending actions on immigration and the rest of the stuff that is going on.
      Instead the MSM is fixating on crowd size and why AP didnt get to ask the first question at a presser.
      As I stated Trump and Spicer is showing they arent going to be the MSM whipping boy like Bush and his admin were. The MSM is going to get called on their bias BS at every step. and it is about time.

      My advice to Trump is as soon as the dems start really being idiots on appointments McConnell should call an official recess and Trump recess appoint everyone that he can from cabinet picks, to SCOTUS on down and then hold a press conference and tell the dems now they can take their time approving folks.

      • Brucehenry

        I heard stories on NPR all day about exactly those things, RM.

        Trump may think he is “brilliantly trolling” the media but I think he is preemptively pissing away his credibility and we will all regret it when our president needs to be believed — say when he tells a foreign military adversary that they had better not make this move or that.

        EDIT: I also think you guys are misremembering the Bush years. He had plenty of people pushing back on his behalf — hell he had a whole news network.

        • Vagabond661

          Big Media no longer has carte blanche to lie. Get used to it.

          • Brucehenry

            But Trump does, I guess.

          • Vagabond661

            Does Trump lie about Big Media or vice versa? Bush just let them lie. Trump won’t and I applaud him.

          • Brucehenry

            Again I think you misremember the Bush years. I recall Bush and his surrogates pushing back pretty darn effectively, or at least strenuously, through most of his presidency. He did seem to pretty much stop giving a shit after the Recession hit.

          • Vagabond661

            Bush never did. Big Media lied. I remember. Can’t rewrite history but I know the Looney Left loves to try. Bush didn’t even push back on obamass blaming Bush for everything for 6 years.

          • Brucehenry

            If you say so.

          • Vagabond661

            Obamass said so. you can even google it, chuckles.

          • Retired military

            THe jobless recession that had 4% unemployment for most of the Bush years but yet was much worse than the rescession that Obama had his entire 8 years where even with 95 million out of the workforce he still couldnt hit 4%.

          • Jwb10001

            “But Trump does, I guess” Clearly not, the press is all over him on this inauguration number stuff. That’s how it’s supposed to be, a president says something, the press checks it and calls it out. Like they did when Obama said “if you like your Dr you can keep your Dr PERIOD” “the average family will save $2500 per year” oh wait no they really didn’t did they? Of course after the fact when it was way too late they discovered those things weren’t quite right but better late than never I suppose. At least now that we have a republican president the press will get back to hammering the crap out of the executive branch. I have zero problem with the press holding Trump to account, I just wish they were a zealous with all presidents.

          • Brucehenry

            The two Obamawhoppers you mention were things that LATER TURNED OUT NOT TO BE TRUE. They were predictions, promises. By contrast, the “inauguration number stuff” is a big fat obviously untrue statemnt that anyone with eyes can see is untrue AS IT IS BEING UTTERED.

            There’s your difference.

          • jim_m

            Wrong. The idiot that lead the drafting of the ACA stated outright that they knew up front that no one would be able to keep their plan and that no one would be able to keep their doctor.

            To claim that it is something that they “discovered” later is an outright lie. But then we expect that from you.

          • Hank_M

            You really are flailing. Why not just own up to it?

            The inauguration numbers are a big nothing affecting nobody.

            The Obamacare lies were repeated over and over, by design, and they have effectively ruined healthcare for millions.

          • Brucehenry

            Hardly flailing, dude. The claim that you would be able to keep your doctor was a prediction, an assertion, that Obama purportedly sincerely believed when he made the claim. It is your right to believe that he knew when he made it that the claim could not be made good, but you have no proof that that is so. Ditto the savings claim. Turns out we didn’t save any money but it was arguable at the time. It was at least as arguable as the claim that “buying insurance across state lines” will save us money.

            I’ll wager that whatever changes Trump and the GOP make to Obamacare, your premiums and mine will continue to rise and our coverage will get suckier and suckier. It was getting suckier throughout the 80s and 90s and 00s and Obamacare didn’t help but it did get 20
            million covered with *something* who hadn’t been covered before.

            EDIT: The difference is we don’t have to wait to see how the crowd size thing is gonna turn out. It’s already happened, and Trump’s crowd was smaller than Obama’s (and Bush’s, and Clinton’s, and Bush’s, and Reagan’s). IT IS GALLING HIM. HE CAN’T LET IT GO. Because he is a giant man-baby and emotionally and temperamentally unfit for the office he holds. I know it, and deep down you know it too.

          • Scalia

            Sigh

            From Lie of the Year:

            The Affordable Care Act tried to allow existing health plans to continue under a complicated process called “grandfathering,” which basically said insurance companies could keep selling plans if they followed certain rules.

            The problem for insurers was that the Obamacare rules were strict. If the plans deviated even a little, they would lose their grandfathered status. In practice, that meant insurers canceled plans that didn’t meet new standards.

            Obama’s team seemed to understand that likelihood. U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius announced the grandfathering rules in June 2010 and acknowledged that some plans would go away. Yet Obama repeated “if you like your health care plan, you can keep it” when seeking re-election last year.

            In 2009 and again in 2012, PolitiFact rated Obama’s statement Half True, which means the statement is partially correct and partially wrong. We noted that while the law took pains to leave some parts of the insurance market alone, people were not guaranteed to keep insurance through thick and thin. It was likely that some private insurers would continue to force people to switch plans, and that trend might even accelerate.

            […]

            Initially, Obama and his team didn’t budge.

            First, they tried to shift blame to insurers. “FACT: Nothing in #Obamacare forces people out of their health plans,” said Valerie Jarrett, a top adviser to Obama, on Oct. 28.

            PolitiFact rated her statement False. The restrictions on grandfathering were part of the law, and they were driving cancellations.

            Then, they tried to change the subject. “It’s important to remember both before the ACA was ever even a gleam in anybody’s eye, let alone passed into law, that insurance companies were doing this all the time, especially in the individual market because it was lightly regulated and the incentives were so skewed,” said White House Press Secretary Jay Carney.

            But what really set everyone off was when Obama tried to rewrite his slogan, telling political supporters on Nov. 4, “Now, if you have or had one of these plans before the Affordable Care Act came into law, and you really liked that plan, what we said was you can keep it if it hasn’t changed since the law passed.”

            Pants on Fire! PolitiFact counted 37 times when he’d included no caveats, such as a high-profile speech to the American Medical Association in 2009: “If you like your health care plan, you’ll be able to keep your health care plan, period. No one will take it away, no matter what.”

            Even Obama’s staunchest allies cried foul.

            On Nov. 6, columnist Clarence Page of the Chicago Tribune wrote that the public “was entitled to hear the unvarnished truth, not spin, from their president about what they were about to face. I don’t feel good about calling out Obama’s whopper, because I support most of his policies and programs. But in this instance, he would have to be delusional to think he was telling the truth.”</blockquote

          • Brucehenry

            OK fine. It was “half-true” when first uttered, and later, when doubled down upon, indeed was a big fat lie. Happy?

            Still, egregious as it may have been, as consequential as it may have been, it’s NOT THE SAME THING as claiming that a thing that everyone with eyes can see is “A” is not really “A” but “B.”

            This is not to say that Obama’s lie wasn’t bad. Obama told a big fat lie, OK? But he did not say that black is white, up is down, war is peace, or that 380,000 is more than 780,000.

          • Vagabond661

            Oh? Did you just get caught in a Lie?

          • Scalia

            His repeated assertions here demonstrate that he was either lying or he was woefully ignorant of an extremely important news item during Obama’s presidency.

          • Vagabond661

            Neither is flattering.

          • Brucehenry

            Well not exactly but did you notice what I DIDN’T do? I didn’t insist, in the face of evidence presented to me, that said evidence meant nothing and that I was right anyway. And I’m not even president.

          • Vagabond661

            Evidence that Big Media misrepresented the size of the two crowds and got clled out on it? oh then I am with you on that.

          • Retired military

            I would vote for you over Obama Bruce.

          • Vagabond661

            Neither is Spicer.

          • Scalia

            All deliberate falsehoods are logically equivalent. When a person purposefully asserts as true something he knows is false, he is lying, regardless the subject matter. The gravity of a lie is where most people note a distinction. Lying about your speed to a police officer isn’t nearly as grave as lying to get somebody executed.

            On that metric, Obama’s lie was far more consequential than a false assertion of crowd size. Many people trusted the president and relied upon his word when he asserted that they wouldn’t lose their health plan. Many of them probably voted for him, in part, because of that assertion. You’re partly right in calling both lies “not the same thing.” Obama’s lie was much worse. Many, many people were adversely affected by Obama’s lie. Not nearly the same with Trump.

          • Brucehenry

            OK sure but even granting all that you said, for the sake of argument if nothing else, it is incredibly concerning, to me anyway, that Trump will stand there unembarrassed and say something demonstrably, visibly, manifestly untrue. Over and over again, on subject after subject, silly or serious, he just insists that fact A is true even when it is plain as the nose on your face that it IS NOT true.

            This is liable to have severe consequences.

          • Scalia

            I never said that a presidential lie is inconsequential. It is extremely troubling that a president would lie, especially if it is painfully obvious that he is. But granting the premise that Trump knows he is telling a falsehood, at this point, it is not nearly as consequential as Obama’s lie.

          • Brucehenry

            OK I get that.

          • Retired military

            Obama did the same thing all the time.

            Look at Obama’s statements about more blacks in jail than in college. Demonstratably false. Did the MSM even bother to check it out? Nope.

          • You’re right down there with deadspin… But no-one is intervening for you.

          • Jwb10001

            There were lots of people that knew this was an outright falsehood as it was literally impossible to promise what Obama promised and still save an average of $2500 per household. It was just as good as a lie as anyone with any common sense could see that you can’t promise everything that Obamacare promised AND reduce costs. Additionally it had the added value of effecting millions of Americans. I fail to see how this stupid fight over inauguration has the same effect. Trust me, I don’t think Trump and his team should continue with the pettiness but I understand the impulse.

          • Scalia

            See the exchange between Bruce and myself further down.

          • Brucehenry

            Again my point was not about whose lie was worser, dude. At least it was until I got sidetracked, sorry.

            It was about a president who claims, on a daily basis, that things we can all plainly see are true are NOT true, and things we can all see are NOT true are true.

            Not policy things. Actual physical things. Five million votes — not true. Debunked time and time again. Not one Secretary of State in any state, Dem or GOP, has reported or complained about widespread voter fraud.

            http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/yet-again-no-evidence-of-voter-fraud/

            One and a half million spectators — not true. Photographs prove it.

            This is dangerous, for reasons I’ve already alluded to.

          • Jwb10001

            So in your view petty arguments with the media over inconsequential nonsense is the same as lying about matters of policy and law. OK. Look, I think the media should hold all politicians to account. all the time over all matters. Until they do I’m not going to get my panties in a twist every time they end up in the mud with Trump.

          • Retired military

            I know you probably dont place much faith in gateway pundit but

            http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/01/crowd-size-matters-trump-is-right-it-was-huge/

          • Jwb10001

            If you think the architects of Obamacare didn’t know they were lying you need to check out the things Gruber has said. They knew this thing was a dump truck full of crap but wanted it so they could follow up with single payer.

        • Retired military

          Bruce
          I think that the MSM is pissing away what very little credibility they have left. Let them keep running around with their hair on fire for the next 3 months shouting at the tops of their lungs 24/7 and people will be tuning out in even greater numbers saying. Oh hell WAPO has another negative story on Trump again and the sun rose in the east this morning. Noone will be paying much attention to anythning they say anymore.

          What they are doing now is like the race card that the dems have played over the past 20 years compressed into a 3-6 month time frame.. When everything is racism then the word racism loses its; meaning. The same goes for Trump=bad. I mean the MSM has already called Trump Hitler for months on end. What more can the MSM do to him?

          • Scalia

            Quick question, RM. I’ve seen you type the word none as noone several times. Is that just a keyboard thing or is it stylistic?

          • Retired military

            I didnt even know that I did it to be honest. If NOONE is the appropriate word to be used in that sentence and I type NONE then it is a genuine typo on my part. and visa versa. Sorry if I am confusing anyone.

            Also as far as using NOONE as well I thought it was a correct usage of the phrase “NO ONE”. You even made me google it.
            It appears to be common. Maybe it is my Kentucky Catholic grade school education showing.

            http://grammarist.com/spelling/no-one-noone/

            No one vs. noone (vs. no-one)
            While phrases like no body, some body, and some one have evolved into the compound words nobody, somebody, and someone, the similar phrase no one has never gone this route. A quick internet search reveals that noone is surprisingly common, but the two-word form and the hyphenated form (no-one) remain far more common in books and in edited publication.

            I will try to remember to use the phrase “NO ONE” in the future to prevent confusion

        • jim_m

          I think you are forgetting that the media has zero credibility with the public. Trump beating up on them, even when he is wrong, is not going to hurt him. And the people it does offend? The perpetually offended left that would never vote for someone who is not some insane fascist clown like 0bama, Clinton or Sanders.

          • Brucehenry

            Again the point is not whether it will help or hurt him politically to attack the media or assume the mantle of victimhood. The point is that if he cannot be believed about inconsequential matters like inauguration crowd size he won’t be believed when it really, truly matters.

          • Retired military

            Bruce
            I understand your point. The point I and I believe others are trying to make is
            a. The MSM wont believe anything good about him no matter what he does. They have already labeled him as Hitler.
            b. You mention him attacking the media but make no mention of the media attacking him (although you saying assume the mantle of victimhood could fit this).
            c. Even if he says something that is 100% correct with video to back it up it is my position that the MSM will try to spin it to put a negative light on it no matter what. If you ask why then I suggest you look at ITEM A above, specifically the last sentence.

          • Brucehenry

            I have heard plenty of comparisons of Trump to Hitler but not from the MSM. Out-there Hollywood types for the most part, but also some of my FB friends have posted memes or whatever. On the other hand Trump accused the intelligence community of tactics that were used in Nazi Germany.

          • Jwb10001

            Is Chris Matthews part of the MSM, he called the inauguration speech Hitlerian, as far as I’m concerned that’s close enough. If the media wants to hold Trump accountable they need to stop the nonsense before they lose all credibility.

          • Retired military

            Here is a link just for CNN.

            https://www.google.com/#q=cnn+trump+hitler

            You can see on page one of the links the comparision.

        • Retired military

          “hell he had a whole news network.”

          And Obama had
          WAPO
          NY TIMES
          LA TIMES
          CNN
          ABC
          NBC
          CBS
          MSNBC
          and the list goes on.

          Tell you what Bruce. From those listed above find me one complimentary story about Trump from inauguration day to today. One story that says what he is doing is the right thing or the best way to handle a situation at this given time. Just one.
          I bet you I can find more stories that are negative about Trump’s10 year old son on those sites than you can find me complimentary stories about Trump on them.

          • Brucehenry

            All day long today I heard about what a wonderful choice Nikki Haley was for UN ambassador, for one. Also that Trump spent his Monday “fulfilling his campaign promises” and “hitting the ground running.”

          • Sky__Captain

            Nice try at parsing the question.
            That’s ONE article YESTERDAY. Anything from January 20th to yesterday?

          • Retired military

            Bruce
            I don’t doubt that you did hear those things as I believe you try to tell what you believe is the truth (please dont take that as a knock because it isn’t meant to be one. I try to tell the truth as I see it when I post as well). I wont try to provide comment on what you heard. If you could please point to an article in print so that I can respond.

          • Brucehenry

            I was working all day yesterday and kept hearing on NPR about Halley being acclaimed by both sides of the aisle. Since Monday I’ve been hearing there and seeing on ABC how Trump is “hitting the ground running” and “making good on his promises.” Also on my local Time Warner Cable channel. DSo I don’t have a written article to point to. I worked from 630 am until 6 pm yesterday. (Unusual for me I don’t usually have to work quite so long in January.)

          • Retired military

            Well take your time. I have been busy myself.

    • Vagabond661

      Indisputable evidence? Where?

      • Brucehenry

        Photos. Neilsen ratings. Metro ridership figures. Etc.

        • Vagabond661

          “I have a right to say if you add up the network streaming numbers, Facebook, YouTube, all of the various live streaming that we have information on so far, I don’t think there’s any question it was the largest watched inauguration, ever,” Spicer said.
          On that point, Spicer may be correct. While Nielsen TV ratings were higher in past years, some data suggests online viewership was up compared with 2009. But there is no comprehensive measurement available that would prove or disprove this claim.

          “I have a right to say if you add up the network streaming numbers, Facebook, YouTube, all of the various live streaming that we have information on so far, I don’t think there’s any question it was the largest watched inauguration, ever,” Spicer said.
          On that point, Spicer may be correct. While Nielsen TV ratings were higher in past years, some data suggests online viewership was up compared with 2009. But there is no comprehensive measurement available that would prove or disprove this claim.

          Even looney left wing snopes says it’s unproven.

          • Brucehenry

            Well then, if it’s *unproven* then Spicer is lying (or at least incorrect) when he says “I don’t think there’s any question” that it was the largest.

          • jim_m

            Yet another nut job talking point from Bruce.

          • Retired military

            Come on Jim. Give Bruce credit for coming to a hostile environment. I see the points he is trying to make. I dont agree with the basis of some of his statements but as one who has been the only conservative against several libs I can attest it can be hard to try to answer several assertations in the same thread from different people. I know you two have your differences but you can both agree to disagree and be civil.

          • Scalia

            RM, I think Jim was mimicking Bruce’s statement below that his (Jim’s) criticisms of Obama are “nutjob talking points.” Jim’s just putting some sauce on the gander.

          • jim_m

            You haven’t read the exchange. Bruce summarily dismisses every single criticism of 0bama as a “nut job talking point” he refuses to engage.

            He has descended to the level of a troll, refusing to engage and discuss or defend his position and issuing nothing other than insults.

          • Vagabond661

            Damn, Bruce. How can he be lying if it’s unproven? Isn’t this your entire premise on this subject? That he lied? He can’t even be incorrect because IT’S UNPROVEN!

            Are people lying when they discuss the Big Bang? Life in another galaxy? The existance of your brain?

            You accuse Trump of not letting go but you and Big Media won’t let it go!

          • Brucehenry

            This is not that hard. If you say “there is no question” about an assertion which you simultaneously say is “unproven,” that’s either incorrect or a lie.

          • Vagabond661

            Or IT’S UNPROVEN! How can you sit on your high horse and proclaim someone is a liar with no proof? Oh that’s right….Looney Left. Only their unproven assertions are accepted as gospel like when life begins. Smh.

          • Brucehenry

            Dude. Again. Not that hard.

            An assertion cannot be simultaneously “without question” and “unproven.”

            If “there’s no question” it was the most-watched, then it IS proven. If it is unproven, then there IS a question as to whether or not it was “most-watched.” Both assertions cannot be true simultaneously.

          • Vagabond661

            Bruce you said:

            ” If you say “there is no question” about an assertion which you simultaneously say is “unproven,” that’s either incorrect or a lie.”

            Or it’s true and correct…..right?

          • Brucehenry

            Oh my god. No.

            It is possible, theoretically, for assertion A to be true, and proven. It is NOT possible, for assertion A to be true, and also UNproven. So no, it is not possible that assertion A is “without question” and simultaneously unproven. If it is “without question” it is PROVEN.

            So you CAN say assertion A is true and not be lying. But if you say assertion A is “unproven” it cannot also be “without question.”

            See? “Proven” in this case means any question about assertion A has been resolved. If it is UNproven, there are still questions.

            Jesus.

          • You’re not sufficiently educated to successfully play at pedantry. That which is “unproven” is ambiguous either in that it has either not been tested or the results of the testing neither prove nor disprove the hypothesis.

          • Brucehenry

            Well shucks y’all I ain’t got no gud edumacation like you’uns but I know that a thing can’t be “without question” and “unproven” at the same goldurn time.

            EDIT: I forgot to add “dumbass.”

          • Scalia

            thang

          • He can’t even red neck accurately…

  • Retired military

    Wow I got featured comment. Never had that before. Is that like reader’s choice on the caption contest? or most inappropriate?

    • Scalia

      It’s a moderator’s choice to feature a comment that he feels is best. In this case, I believe Rodney featured your post.

      • Retired military

        First that I can remember that happening.
        Thanks whoever did it.

  • Brucehenry
    • jim_m

      You mean that they lied when they said we could keep our plans and our doctors?

      You mean when they lied about Benghazi being about a video? And put someone in prison in an attempt to prove it?

      You mean when they lied about giving guns to criminals(operation Fast and Furious)?

      You mean when they lied about operation choke point not being about shutting down legal businesses?

      You mean when they lied about the IRS targeting conservative groups?

      You mean when they lied about voter fraud?

      You mean when they lied about TPP?

      You mean when they lied about the Dakota Access Pipeline?

      You mean when they lied about the stimulus working and not being a payoff to cronies in dodgy companies like Solyndra?

      You mean when they lied about the weakest recovery in history calling it a booming economy?

      You mean when they lied about being the most transparent admin in history?

      You mean when they lied about the ransom payment to Iran?

      You mean when you tell us that the MSM isn’t reporting it so therefore what we are saying must not be true because it isn’t being reported by what you consider a reputable source? Yeah, I guess it kind of show that you are full of shit doesn’t it?

      • Brucehenry

        Another silly Jim-rant ticking off all the nutjob talking points of the last 8 years. Go ahead on with your bad self.

        • jim_m

          OK. SO be on notice that EVERY single complaint you make will be dismissed by everyone here as a “Nut job talking point” because in your case they really are.

        • jim_m

          37% of Detroit precincts reported more ballots than registered voters . Bruce calls this a nutjob talking point and claims that there is no proof of voter fraud

        • jim_m

          Bruce claims that only a nutjob would have considered Solyndra a bad investment.

          • Scalia

            And Benghazi being caused by a video.

    • jim_m

      Cluelessness watch: Bruce is protesting fascism by claiming that people are lying after he has spent 8 years defending lies.. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2d116340c30bb6d877d9ba5a2f7869aa92ab58ddd26cf8adb3e97dd44263bf39.jpg

    • WHO’S THE BUSTER

      Crowd size was yesterday’s B.S. Now it is about the popular vote because, apparently, winning was not enough.

      There are now claims that 3 to 4 million people voted illegally (odd that it is approximately the same number he lost by). What is even worse is that there is now going to be an investigation to double down on this nonsense. Why is there going to be an investigation? Because members of the media kept saying if this is true why no investigation.

      Why is crowd size and popular vote so important? Oh well, according to people on the right this is all the media’s fault. Seems odd after Spicer, unprompted, came out Saturday and offered a long soliloquy on crowd size, took no questions and left. Yup, the media’s fault.

      What is the over/under on Spicer’s length of employment?

      • jim_m

        Hypocrite! You were one of the people whining about how “Russia hacked the election” now you are claiming that there was nothing illegal or untoward going on at all.

        Make up your mind,, otherwise you are a lying jackass.

        • WHO’S THE BUSTER

          “Make up your mind,, otherwise you are a lying jackass.” What an odd way to speak to people. Oh well, it only reflects on the you.

          So if one believes that the Russians hacked the election they must also believe in rampant voter fraud? Well, you lost me.

          • Scalia

            No, that’s not the point. The point is if one is so concerned about election integrity, then that person should equally be concerned about it within our borders. Voter ID and proof of citizenship are good places to start, but your party doesn’t like that because it “suppresses” the vote. What a joke. You couldn’t care less about election integrity. This is all a smokescreen to hide the real reason: You’re crying over losing an election. Get over it.

          • Ayup.

            We have all heard about voter fraud and the attempts by liberal media organs like the New York Times and Ivory Tower
            academics to dismiss it as a nonexistent problem. But it is
            real, widespread, and substantial to the point that it can decide
            elections. It also drives honest citizens out of the democratic process
            and breeds distrust of our government.

            Tom Fitton
            President, Judicial Watch
            Clean House: Exposing Our Government’s Secrets and Lies

      • Retired military

        “Why is there going to be an investigation? Because members of the media kept saying if this is true why no investigation.”
        Maybe the media will learn the following axiom which I have reminded my sons of time and time again
        Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it.
        IMO it is a win win for Trump no matter what.
        a. Investigation finds significant voter fraud and illegal voting. American people win.
        b. Investigation finds no significant fraud. Media pounces on it and says that Trump wasted money investigating. Trump says that his sources were incorrect and the media were the ones asking why no investigation. MSM is made to look life fools again.

        I say Spicer will be in the job at least 2 years. Would you like to wager say $25 to favorite charity Who’s the Buster?

        • WHO’S THE BUSTER

          So an investigation that will cost a considerable amount of money and time that results in nothing is a win as long as the media takes the wrap? Is this about what is good for the country or are we still in the retribution phase?

          As far as the media demanding a study; it was in response to Spicer’s continued assertions of rampant voter fraud (even though you could tell he really wasn’t invested in the theory, while also citing the debunked study that claimed 14%). They kept asking if there was that much voter fraud why there would not be an investigation. Presto, the next day a call for an investigation.

          • Scalia

            It’s “rap” not “wrap,” genius.

          • What say we find out and let the bodies land where they will.

      • Scalia

        Tut-tut it all you want, but I personally know somebody who was not a U.S. citizen and was mailed voter registration cards three times. All a person needs is a driver’s license, and s/he does not have to prove citizenship. In an election where many Hispanics could be highly motivated to dump Trump, the conjecture that there may have been a significant number of illegal votes is not that far-fetched.

        In Detroit alone, they found boxes which were labeled with far more votes than were in said boxes. Somebody was padding the score.

      • Brucehenry

        Right! It is Trump and Spicer who KEEP BRINGING THIS UP, not the media.

      • Retired military

        No response on the bet ?

  • Paul Hooson

    It turns out that Steve Bannon, the alt right adviser to the president is actually registered to vote in two states, New York and to a vacant house in Florida where he used to live. And, Trump’s choice for Treasury Secretary is also registered in two states. Today, Mr. Trump called for an investigation of those registered to vote in more than one state. Well, it doesn’t take Sherlock Holmes, a trench coat and a big magnifying glass to find two examples in his own administration.

    I’m not sure what sort of Stalinist spin Mr. Spicer will put on this hypocrisy…

    Instead of concentrating on ruling the country, this administration constantly exposes it’s own weaknesses,flaws and warts…

    • Scalia

      You get all twisted about Russian interference with our elections, presumably because you’re as pure as the wind-driven snow when it comes to your motives about election integrity, but you ridicule the notion that we should actually look into whether fraud occurred within our borders. What kind of “Stalinist” spin is that?

      • Paul Hooson

        I’m just real distrustful of Russian intentions. My relatives came from Czechoslavkia and Azebaijan, both once under the Communist Russian boot. Living under Stalin wasn’t a desired thing…

        • Scalia

          As usual, the point flies right by you. It’s really pointless trying to have a discussion with you since you rarely pay attention to the other guy.

          • Paul Hooson

            I’m all for election integrity, and any investigation would be most welcome news since it will disprove Mr. Trump’s willful nonsense claim that 2.8 million illegals voted, which is not a helpful statement. However, this should not become an excuse to propel voter suppression attempts. In Wisconsin, the close vote might even somewhat be blamed on voter suppression attempts. – No side should ever manufacture a win by preventing others from voting or by illegal voting.

            When my father risked his life in the Korean War, he did so with the intent that we were fighting against Communist aggression for the right of persons in the South to freely vote and choose their own government, and not have one imposed on them. And, when men in my family were members of all four branches of service, each did so with a strong spirit of patriotism and belief in the power of the ballot and free elections.

          • Scalia

            Proof of citizenship is not voter suppression, unless you want illegal aliens to vote.

            As I said elsewhere, I personally know a mean who was a non-citizen. He was mailed a voter registration card three times. All one needs is a driver’s license and proof of citizenship is not required. In an election where millions of Hispanics are motivated to defeat Trump, the notion that a significant number is them may have voted illegally is not far-fetched. These silly statements from states about there being no evidence of voter fraud is laughable. How would they know unless they verified the citizenship of their voters?

          • WHO’S THE BUSTER

            So an illegal who has found himself in California and is working under the table and doing everything to avoid detection will risk it all to cast a vote in a state that is, in reality, already decided? That doesn’t seem to make a lot of sense.

            As far as the 2008 study cited by Spicer and Trump that indicates rampant voter fraud to the tune of 14%? The author of the study states that there was a technical error and the number was actually zero.

            http://www.towleroad.com/2017/01/voter-fraud-2/

            Alternative facts.

          • Scalia

            Risk it all?? Did you actually type that? Obama gave an interview prior to the election and denied that illegals ran the risk of deportation:

            RODRIGUEZ: Many of the millennials, Dreamers, undocumented citizens — and I call them citizens because they contribute to this country — are fearful of voting. So if I vote, will immigration know where I live? Will they come for my family and deport us?

            OBAMA: Not true. And the reason is, first of all, when you vote, you are a citizen yourself. And there is not a situation where the voting rolls somehow are transferred over and people start investigating, et cetera. The sanctity of the vote is strictly confidential in terms of who you voted for. If you have a family member who maybe is undocumented, then you have an even greater reason to vote.

            RODRIGUEZ: This has been a huge fear presented especially during this election.

            OBAMA: And the reason that fear is promoted is because they don’t want people voting. People are discouraged from voting and part of what is important for Latino citizens is to make your voice heard, because you’re not just speaking for yourself. You’re speaking for family members, friends, classmates of yours in school…

            RODRIGUEZ: Your entire community.

            OBAMA: … who may not have a voice. Who can’t legally vote. But they’re counting on you to make sure that you have the courage to make your voice heard.

            Obama’s answer is far from an unambiguous answer. Rodriguez’s question included “undocumented citizens,” and she expressed the fear that “immigration will know where I live.” Why would a legitimate citizen fear immigration? At that point in his presidency Obama was wise enough to know how to give a straight answer. It was clearly crafted to send a signal that a person voting would not run afoul of ICE.

            Not only that, they’re already risking “it all” by being here in the first place! Moreover, they don’t have to be entirely from California. For many Hispanics, the stakes appeared incredibly high. A victory for Hillary “I’m-secretly-for-open-borders” Clinton is exactly what they were looking for.

            Like I said, unless states are verifying voter citizenship, we have no way of knowing how many illegals are voting. Without verification, it’s entirely reasonable to suggest that many of them did.

          • Scalia
        • And we’re very distrustful of progtard intentions.

      • That would be revolutionary progtard truth versus the bourgeois [factual and verifiable] truth.

  • Retired military
    • Scalia

      That guy’s elevator doesn’t go to the top floor.

  • Retired military

    I cant seem to remember the press every asking this question about the Obama admin

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/where-will-trumps-aides-draw-the-line-on-lies-100041553.html