Anti-Gunner Converted by Reality

From NewsChannel3:

“I was always anti-gun. … I wasn’t really scared of them, I just decided I wanted to be anti-gun, and what a difference 24 hours makes.”

Meet Lori Shelton: She’s learning how to properly use a gun after a nightmare shook her family last month.

“I was getting ready for work doing my normal routine, and I heard a noise as I was getting out of the shower.”

Lori, who lives in the Greenbrook subdivision, couldn’t believe what she saw next.

“I saw a man coming through the back of the house,” she recalled. “The first thing I thought was I gotta do something.”

And fast, because her husband wasn’t home and her teenage daughter was asleep upstairs.

“I peeked through the blinds, the blinds stayed closed and peeked through and saw him looking at me. I mean we made complete eye contact,” she said. “He proceeded to come through the back of the house, and I ran back and dialed 911.”

Lori said police came within minutes.

“He did get away at that time, but they had him arrested within an hour because of a good description.”

She says the crook stole several antiques — and her sense of security.

[…]

Lori brings her daughter so she can learn as well.

“I’ve enjoyed it, I’m glad to know that I have a 15-year-old daughter and she knows the safety and the rules, and I feel pretty confident in her if she ever had to use a weapon for her defense.”

But Lori isn’t the only woman taking these steps.

In fact, Holloway said over 200 women have taken the course since it started last year. She says 50 percent of classes are made of women, and most go on to get their licenses to carry.

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  • Retired military

    I live alone. I have 3 pistols in my house. None of them have a safety.

    • jim_m

      I feel bad for you. That means you are missing out on owning a good 1911.

      • yetanotherjohn

        Great minds think alike. I have one of those. Certainly not the latest design, but if you are going to shoot someone, you should be shooting to end the threat. That was exactly what the 1911 was designed to do an does.

        • Retired military

          Got a Ruger redhawk , Glock 23 and Glock 17. And Texas believes in hollowpoints. If the Glocks wont do the job the 44 will.

          • yetanotherjohn

            I don’t shoot often enough to trust that I can put 9 mm on target vs .45 ACP inherent destructive capability. The U.S. Army used .38s until they ran up against the Moro. The Moro would just keep coming, even after multiple hits by a .38. .45 ACP would put them down even with an arm vs torso hit. Bottom line for me is that if I get in a shooting situation I have no doubt my adrenaline will be up, my accuracy will likely suffer and I will want the situation to end happily for me and mine. If you have the muscle memory training to be effective with 9mm, good for you. For a highly trained shooter you can easily make the argument that it has enough stopping power. But as an adequate, not expert, shooter, I’ll take stopping power as my back up.

          • Scalia

            The Moro would just keep coming, even after multiple hits by a .38. .45 ACP would put them down even with an arm vs torso hit.

            Yes, I’m told that in ‘Nam, the enemy always went down after being hit with a .45—anywhere on the body.

          • jim_m

            Hyperbole aside, the 9mm was selected by the military for the fact that it will not kill the target. The intent was to injure with the idea being that an injured soldier took both himself out of the fighting as well as the soldier treating his wounds or assisting him off the field of battle.

            What the military did not take into account was an enemy like the islamist who doesn’t care about the lives of those he fights with and who sees death as a goal rather than something to avoid. We need weapons that will kill and not merely wound.

            At home for self defense you are arguably better off with an intruder that is dead than with one that will sue you an lie on the witness stand.

          • Same with 5.56mm/0.223 rifle rounds. An armored man with a trauma plate will at least fall down when hit with a 7.62mm/.308 round.

          • jim_m

            Technology has progressed since the Military made those decisions, and so has the nature of the enemy. Time for a reassessment.

          • yetanotherjohn

            The original assessment for the 5.56mm started with basically a WWII assumption. In that scenario, every soldier wounded lowered enemy morale, took up tactical and strategic resources to care and evacuate them and over all was as great or greater impact to the enemy as a kill. An asymmetric war where you are likely to use your resources to care for enemy wounded, enemy wounded may be perfectly happy to trade their wounded life for your soldier and where there is not likely to be neat lines of opposing troops does bring those assumptions into question.

          • Scalia

            When in a genuine self-defense situation, you always shoot to kill.

          • jim_m

            Which means arming yourself with a defensive round that will do that.

          • And keep shooting until they stop moving.

          • Retired military

            Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

          • Retired military

            a. That is why I use hollowpoints. They hurt no matter where you hit someone.
            b. The 9mm is just to keep them busy until I reach the 44. (both in the bedroom area. The .40 is in the living room)
            c. I also use laser sights on the Glocks.
            d. I have a spare magazine for each of the Glocks right by them.

            Also with the 9mm you don’t get as much of a kick so easier to stay on target.

          • MagSafe rounds… Won’t penetrate two layers of dry wall with lethal force, dump all their kinetic energy in the object hit.

          • Retired military

            I have a friedn who uses a 50 cal revolver for home defense. It is for the guy who is hiding behind your neighbor’s fridge.

            When I bought my Glock the gun seller said I probably wouldnt like it as I shoot left handed and it is only a right hand mag release. I told him look there is 13 in the mag and one in the chamber. If I cant hit what I want with that maybe I should just throw it someone.

          • Scalia

            I had a Glock 22 (.40) but got rid of it because I don’t like the semi-double action trigger pull. Others I know love Glocks. Whatever works for them. I like my Colts and Sig .380.

          • And a .50 cal Desert Eagle, in case you need to double tap the guy behind your neighbor’s fridge!

          • irvpost

            Mossburg Mariner in 12 ga. , first round slug and remaining 00.

        • Mmm. The Automatic Colt Pistol round was designed to at least knock a man down regardless of biochemical state…

      • Scalia

        I have two 1911s—both by Colt.

        • jim_m

          I like my Kimber

          • Scalia

            Very nice! Top of the line.

          • They make fine weapons, but they ain’t cheap.

      • …praise the name and works of John Moses Browning.

        • yetanotherjohn

          The thing that most impresses me about Browning is not any individual weapon being so great (and picking the best would be difficult), but that he made so many outstanding weapons in so many genres (pistol, machine gun, etc).

          • Even one of the standard 9mm handguns… I believe FN still produces them.

    • All of them have the safety of a trained shooter.

      • Retired military

        Thank you

  • yetanotherjohn

    I had a discussion recently about the dangers of letting your children go play at houses when you don’t know the parents well. The example she gave was the parents might have a gun in the house and the kid could be shot or shoot someone. I told her I had given basic gun safety lessons to my kids when they were young to prevent just such a tragedy. I also explained that I had a gun in the house and kept it in a gun locker in case the friend they invited over didn’t have a parent who had taken this very basic precaution. She looked at me like I was speaking Greek and just reiterated how dangerous guns were.
    I grew up in a time when you weren’t living in fear of you neighbors. The idea that going to a friends house was dangerous because the friends parents might be dangerous just wasn’t on the radar screen. The danger of guns wasn’t an issue either as my father had taught me basic gun safety.
    You can’t protect against every potential harm. But you can protect against most reasonable harm. I made sure my kids recognized that they shouldn’t fool around with cars when they were young and that underage driving would have severe consequences as they got older. My liberal neighbors across the street had a different approach and asked me if they thought they should get their kids another car after the third time they had wrecked cars (twice while their kid driving was underage). Basic gun safety isn’t a sovereign protection, but it does reduce the threat of a kid visiting a house with an improperly stored gun down to a manageable level. Trying to keep a kid from visiting a friends house because the parents might have a gun seems like a lot less reasonable solution.
    The old saw that a liberal is a conservative that hasn’t been mugged yet holds some truth for the woman in the story.

    • Retired military

      But remember. Libs feel that even bike safety is absolutely essential.
      If a kid in my neighborhood wore a helmet riding a bike (even if they could afford one) hurting themselves while riding their bike would have been the last thing on their minds.
      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/bc9f4a38defa82b7a9f8e5788ba0d04b132e99f9783de19cf39313dbaba1dcd3.jpg

      • pennywit

        I remember a couple time as a kid going way too fast on my bike without a helmet. A couple spills on the concrete taught me to ride more slowly. More than once, I lost control of my bike and made the conscious choice to jump off the bike onto grass and let the bike continue on its way. Never told my mother about that; I think she would have had kittens.

        • Retired military

          A little pain every now and then generally has a way of making us avoid a lot of pain later on.

          • pennywit

            A third-degree burn isn’t a good thing … but, yes, the burned hand learns best.

    • pennywit

      Hm. I actually would like to get a gun at my place, but Mrs. Pennywit is firmly against it. It’s not a battle I can win right now. Otherwise, my own thoughts:

      1) I’ve told the kids, point-blank, that a gun is not a toy and at his age, he shouldn’t even tough a gun unless supervised by an adult.

      2) If my kids visit somebody else’s house, I want that person’s guns safely stored. If I think that you aren’t storing your guns safely, then I don’t want my kids at your house. I don’t have the right to tell you what to do with your guns. But I do have the right not to send my kids there.

      3) If my kid visits you, don’t take him shooting (whether in the back yard or at a shooting range) without getting my OK.

      4) If you visit my house, please leave your gun at home. You have the right to do what you want on your property. But I make the rules on my property.

      • yetanotherjohn

        Put it in perspective. ~40K unintentional poisoning deaths, ~34K auto accident deaths, ~33k fall deaths, ~1.5K unintentional fire arm deaths. (source CDC 2014 statistics)
        Wrap your kids in what ever cotton you want, but put guns in perspective.

        • pennywit

          Wrap your kids in what ever cotton you want, but put guns in perspective.

          *Shrug*. My kids, my rules. Also, my property, my rules.

          • Yes, that is the full expanse of your rules.

          • yetanotherjohn

            True. You are free to be as irrational as you want.

      • Scalia

        If my kids visit somebody else’s house, I want that person’s guns safely stored.

        How do you define “safely stored”?

        If you visit my house, please leave your gun at home.

        What if your visitor keeps his firearm in his locked car?

        • pennywit

          Safely stored, to me, means preferably a gun safe or a gun case. In the main, especially with young kids, it means out of their reach.

          I would not encourage the visitor to keep his gun in a locked car. Theft can be an issue. But if he wants to take that risk, that’s his business.

          • Scalia

            Locked away in a case means it’s effectively out of the owner’s reach if an emergency arises. There are places to keep firearms out of children’s reach which do not necessitate locking them away. There are times when a person has just seconds to respond to a threat.

            What if the homeowner has it on his hip, would you object?

            With respect to my car, it’s against the law in my state to keep it in plain view. If it’s seen, it must be on my person (I live in an open carry state).

          • pennywit

            On his hip? Depends on the owner.

          • Scalia

            Of course, but if you don’t trust the owner anyway, the gun is irrelevant. I’d never let my children stay in a home if I didn’t trust the owner.

          • pennywit

            At my end, again, my property, my rules. If a person does not like the rules, he is free to stay away.

          • Scalia

            I wasn’t replying to your rules in your house, and since you already said you don’t object to a person keeping it in his car, I only stated that laws normally require a person to keep it out of sight if s/he keeps it in h/er car.

          • Tell it to the next police officer who knocks on your door.

    • pennywit

      Sorry to multipost, but I’m thinking about this a little bit, mostly as a way to avoid doing work.

      I had a discussion recently about the dangers of letting your children go play at houses when you don’t know the parents well. … I grew up in a time when you weren’t living in fear of you neighbors.

      I don’t endorse paranoia. But at the same time, I think it’s ENTIRELY appropriate to to get to know your kids’ friends’ parents before the kids go to play at another kid’s house without your supervision. I don’t see that less as paranoia and more as due diligence.

  • When seconds count, the police are only minutes away!