I really think they thought they were exploiting some political point here... I think they've become too insulated and only listen to DailyKos, MoveOn.Org, etc, etc. Pushing for death when there are so many conflicts of interests clearly doesn't play in Peoria. As I highlighted in a post on my site, Peggy Noonan was wrong when she thought that the GOP only had to face down Michael Schiavo... the Left has now become the Party of Death. There's an entire movement established to make sure that if there are any questions, we should just go ahead and terminate.

BTW, the Left is now calling for a blogswarm to push their POV into the MSM. amazing.

They will figure out a way to lay this one on President Bush as well. Just wait and see. They hate him so bad that they will do anything to stop him from doing the right thing. The recriminations will start tomorrow, if they haven’t started already.

112 Democrats refused to vote at all.

Are you combining the House and the Senate? Because the number of non-voting Democrats in the House was 102. I didn't see the results of the Senate vote, except that there were no "no" votes.

But the Dems putting their combined foot in it, so to speak, is only relavent if the masses (and not just the "in crowd" of the blogasphere) get the point.

My dad told me today that my own Grandma (a mostly Republican 81 year old) thinks Michael is right. I'm pretty sure my in-laws (also mostly Repub) agreed with her. One who has become a burden needs to be gone.

These are Midwestern folks who have no clue what a blog is. A blogswarm is, therefore, only going to play in Peoria (about 50 miles from my extended family home) if the the Dems death march becomes news in the MSM and is explained in terms that all will understand.

(ditto the new Social Security plan, btw)

"The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only legitimate object of good government."
--Thomas Jefferson

They've done him proud today.

What about the 5 Republicans who voted against it and the 71 who refused to vote at all? Who will take the blame for them?

So, which of our resident moonbats need to go on suicide watch?

Find out if this woman is a vegetable already. That's the crux of the matter. I could care less is she lives or dies IF she IS a vegetable...but not on my tax dollars thanks.

In war, sometimes it's the kindest thing you can do to put someone out of their misery, depending on wounds... you kids don't really understand the issues real well.

But if she's NOT a vegetable, then I'm trusting MY PRESIDENT is doing the best thing possible.

Sorry to be dense....

What happens now? When will the Federal hearing be? Will she be reconected pending the outcome?

I have been looking, but haven't found the answer anywhere. Maybe nobody knows?

The left's biggest problem with Terri is that every time they show that video of a woman who responds to noises and follows objects with her her eyes she looks so much like a large 2 month-old baby. I'd say her responses to stimuli are about the same. She has the the same basic needs, to be fed, bathed, diapers changed, to be cared for completely. She's no vegetable, I've yet to see an ear corn respond to anything. I've seen recent video of her on nearly every news channel on TV and she's far from comatose. Here's the legal definition of PVS:
http://encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com/Persistent_vegetative_state

A persistent vegetative state (or PVS) is a condition of patients with severe brain damage in whom coma has progressed to a state of "wakefulness without awareness". The term was introduced by two doctors in 1972 to describe a syndrome that seemed to have been made possible by medicine's increased capacities to keep patients' bodies alive. A persistent vegetative state is not the same as coma, the major distinction being that coma sufferers cannot breathe on their own.

Patients in a persistent vegetative state are usually considered to be unconscious and unaware, but exhibit sleep-wake cycles and some behaviors that can be construed as arising from partial consciousness, such as grinding their teeth, swallowing, smiling, shedding tears, grunting, moaning, or screaming without any apparent external stimulus. Their heads and eyes can track moving objects or turn towards a sound.

Few people ever recover from PVS, but in occasional cases, family members who visit the patient will detect evidence of awareness when doctors with limited patient contact will deny it. Eye tracking is often the earliest symptom of recovery.

As opposed to brain death, PVS is not recognized as death in any known legal system. This legal grey area has led to several court cases involving people in a PVS state, those who believe that they should be allowed to die, and those who are equally determined that, if recovery is possible, care should continue. Well-known cases include Terri Schiavo, Paul Brophy, and Sunny von Bülow.
------------------------------------------------------------Anyone that thinks she isn't responding to stimulus needs to watch those videos again. it's not coincidence that she turns her head towards sound, that's a response. She tracks objects with her eyes, the defintion says "Eye tracking is often the earliest symptom of recovery." Unlike those on the left that react to the stimulus of a chance to kill an innocent person with apparent glee and attack it with the same amount of zeal that they try to protect a mass murderer on death row, she can't comunicate her feelings to us. It's a shame they can. Just about the time my opinion of the left can't go any lower they prove me wrong.

Bullwinkle,

Even your own source states, "their heads and eyes can track moving objects or turn towards a sound." So, can you and I differentiate between reflexive eye tracking and "recovery" eye tracking? Personally, I'm more inclined to listen to Terri's doctors and the independent doctor appointed by the court rather than draw questionable conclusions based on a few minutes of video, but to each his own.

Just for the record, I'm in favor of the death penalty.

To go just a little further on the subjecft of the videos (from the transcript of the trial):

"At first blush, the video of Terry Schiavo appearing to smile and look lovingly at her mother seemed to represent cognition. This was also true for how she followed the Mickey Mouse balloon held by her father. The court has carefully viewed the videotapes as requested by counsel and does find that these actions were neither consistent nor reproducible. For instance, Terry Schiavo appeared to have the same look on her face when Dr. Cranford rubbed her neck. Dr. Greer testified she had a smile during his (non-videoed) examination. Also, Mr. Schindler tried several more times to have her eyes follow the Mickey Mouse balloon but without success. Also, she clearly does not consistently respond to her mother. The court finds that based on the credible evidence, cognitive function would manifest itself in a constant response to stimuli."

As for your point that this would be killing an innocent person who can't communicate her feelings to us, the finding of the court was that it was Terri's wish to die if in such as state as she currently finds herself. Whether you like it or don't like it, that's not my opinion, but the finding of the court based on testimony given. The trial was not to determine if Michael could terminate Terri's life, but to determine what her present physical state was (determined to be persistent vegitative state) and what HER wishes were for herself in that state. Why is this so hard for people on this board to understand?

My guess is that the judge never tried to keep the attention of a class of first-graders. Terri has made sounds and even spoken in the past and they claim she mouthed the word "no" when they removed her feeding tube. I highlighted the part "without any apparent external stimulus" thinking that most people with an attention span greater than Terri's could remember the point. We have evidence that some people can still type after entering PVS now. What day are you free next week, JYT? We need to start making arrangements to begin your starvation/dehydration therapy. You clearly have PVS. It'll only take about 14 days and you won't feel a thing.

When Governor George W. Bush signed a law that allows Texas hospitals to end treatment to terminally ill patients (despite family opposition) after their insurance/medicare/medicaid funds ran out [The Texas Futile Care Law], was he promoting or undermining a culture of life? When President George W. Bush proposes Medicaid budget cuts for funds used to provide care to the severely brain-damaged, is he pro-life or pro-death? When Republicans refused to include exemptions in the recent bankruptcy bill for individuals who had financially exhausted themselves caring for severely ill family members, was he promoting a culture of life, or just helping credit card companies stick it to those who actually engaged in the culture of life?

What are the rationales that support the Republicans' tactics in the Schiavo case but do not condemn their tactics in these other cases?

Where are the lefties that oppose the death penalty that cite the extreme outside chance that we may execute an innocent person? Have they been convinced by the shoddy work done by the doctors that there's nothing left of Terri but a shell? Where are the lefties that argue we can keep killers locked up forever and not endanger society? They have to admit if they truly believe Terri is in a PVS it would be impossible for her to harm anyone, ever. Why can't they excuse Terri's condition by claiming she was abused as a child, or grew up in a broken home, or watched too much TV and played violent video games as a teenager and is therefore not responsible for her condition? That would make anyone in their book exempt from paying any kind of penalty. I guess if Terri's childhood home had been painted with lead-based paint or she lived near Three Mile Island while growing up we'd never even have had to ask these question. Can't they find some connection to some evil corporation, maybe she witnessed a Halliburton truck going down the highway or was exposed to second-hand smoke in her youth. They would be searching for ways to keep her alive if she filled the bill of one of their causes, they'd be searching for ways to keep her alive if the republicans weren't acting and they be looking for any excuse they could come up with if she had murdered 20 people. They'd hold a candlelight vigil outside the prison the night before her execution. She doesn't fit in with their agenda so she's worthless to them. The only way they could possibly made to care at this point is if someone was able to step forward with some revelation that she had experienced any of things I mentioned, the democrats are always looking for a poster child.

The game congress paid, tossing back and forth Terri's bill the way they did. That was purely dispicable. I just hope that now that it's signed that something in FL can be done in time to get that feeding tube back in Terri.

Which reminds me- oh brilliant and wonderful Paul, would you happen to have a copy of- or know where we can download a copy of the audio that Drudge had linked to this morning? It's already exceeded it's bandwidth on both sites linked and I can't find it elsewhere. What if I bat my eyelashes like this? ::blinks hard:: Did that work? :oD

::I'm not going to correct my typos- I'm not going .. to ... correct...

GYaH!

Pudentilla :

Obtain, *all* the medical records in these other cases you keep referring to. We'll review them by a case by case basis and give you an opinion.
Otherwise, you are just talking out of your ass. Not that it has ever stopped the left before.

"Few people ever recover from PVS, but in occasional cases, family members who visit the patient will detect evidence of awareness when doctors with limited patient contact will deny it. Eye tracking is often the earliest symptom of recovery. "

This isn't even true. A study in the UK indicated that almost 50% of diagnosed PVS cases ended up improving. Now you can argue that the PVS was misdiagnosed, but then that begs the question of our tendancy to turn doctors into all knowing gods. If they have gotten it wrong before, is it really a good idea to kill somebody without anything in writing, whose family wants to take care of her, and whose husband stands to receive 700k (and please don't give me the "there is nothing left line" had Michael had his way, when he first wanted her dead, he would have gotten over 700k) and after he has started living with another woman and making babies with her.

Honestly, my issue is that once Michael started living with another woman, he gave up any right to make decisions about Terri's life or death.

And what harm exactly would be done, if Terri's parents take her home to care for her?

In advance, they prepare a court order for the tube to be replaced and find out which judge will be available to sign it. As soon as the bill was signed, it was presented for the judge's signature and taken to the medical facility.

What I'd like to see is a rational explaination/justification why this is a Federal issue.

Why do we have the entire US (Represented by Congress) interfering in an issue that is, in any respect that I can fathom, for the state of Florida to decide?

Where is the link to the supposed voice of Terri complaining when the tube was removeed?

ginabina:

The 11th Circuit USDC Middle District of Fla. (Tampa) will set a trial schedule. It's going to take a while though. If you go to their website, under notable cases they will post the order for her tube to be replaced and eventually a schedule. Link

Where are (often leftist) groups that protect/are activists for the disabled? Have we heard a peep out of them? As someone who just took a special ed course in an education department, I know that people nearly as disabled as Terri have rights in the schools. We went over several specific cases where school districts had to provide education for people who were very profoundly disabled-and I mean VERY profoundly-I could see no difference in reaction or behavior from the videos shown of Terri.

What I'd like to see is a rational explaination/justification why this is a Federal issue.

Under the authority of the US Constitution, Congress exercised its right to pass a law making it a federal issue. That's why. Are you against the US Constitution?? If you don't like it, change it. Otherwise, suck it up.

Why do we have the entire US (Represented by Congress) interfering in an issue that is, in any respect that I can fathom, for the state of Florida to decide?

Because it takes a vote from the entire congress to pass a law. The constitution gives congress the right to grant federal jurisdiction, which they did. Are you saying congress doesn't have the right to exercise powers granted to it under the US Constitution?

Nowhere in the entire US Constitution does it state that Congress will not exercise any powers granted to it unless tristan can "fathom" it.

"The left's biggest problem with Terri is that every time they show that video of a woman who responds to noises and follows objects with her her eyes she looks so much like a large 2 month-old baby. "

The real problem is the vicious propaganda from the Right, notablt Randall Terry. The clip we have all seen was culled from hours of taping. 5 neurologists could not duplicate the results.

But, this isn't about Terri :

ABC News obtained talking points circulated among Senate Republicans explaining why they should vote to intervene in the Schiavo case. Among them, that it is an important moral issue and the "pro-life base will be excited," and that it is a "great political issue — this is a tough issue for Democrats."
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Schiavo/story?id=595905&page=2

Forget it dude, found the link to the audio of Terri's reaction to her feeding tube being removed. I haven't listened to it yet- but I believe this is not the "IIIII waaaaaaaa" that Barbara Weller reported Terri saying when she was told about what was about to be done to her. I don't think that was recorded.

"whose family wants to take care of her, and whose husband stands to receive 700k"

The malpractice settlement was in 1993. There is less than 50K left.

Steve J.:

Everything you bring up has been debated ad nauseum on this blog alone. Whether you approve or not, the tube is going to be, if not already has been, replaced. There is nothing you can do about it. Go wear black or something if that will make you feel better.

I've restrained from relating this story, because I think it will probably be misconstrued by some to indicate that I believe Terri has a significant chance to improve to a much higher degree than I think is likely. Still, the lesson I learned through this experience has a huge bearing upon this case.

Several years ago, while I was in the midst of my clinical time for paramedic school, one of my rotations took me into the cardiac care unit at the University Medical Center. The area to which I was assigned consisted of twelve rooms reserved for only the most critical patients--most were on ventilators (with feeding tubes, btw). One lady, suffered sudden-onset cardiac arrest in a doctor's office waiting room, and had been in the unit a few days before I arrived for the first of my three twelve-hour rotations. She had shown no signs of any mental activity, and her family was advised that she was in her last days. An EEG (something I haven't even heard mentioned in the Schiavo case) showed a very low level of higher brain activity on the day after she was admitted. During my second day, a second EEG was run, and indicated practically no brain activity--not even enough to trigger any attempt at spontaneous respiratory effort. This I learned upon arrival on my third day. I was told that the family had decided to discontinue life support on the next day, after a couple more out-of-town children had arrived. At one time during that day, the nurse and I went into her room to change out an IV bag. After the nurse left, I lingered a bit, just watching the patient, looking over the numerous monitoring and life-sustaining equipment to which she was attached. Then I saw something--a slight movement of her hand. I reached and squeezed her hand--no response. Still, I told the nurse what I had seen. She attributed it to nerve responses through the spinal cord (reflex loop). Through the day, though, I kept an eye on the patient. I started to see a slight change in facial expression from time to time. After many times trying, I got the nurse's attention while the patient was moving her hand slightly. Although she was still convinced this indicated nothing about the patient's mental activity, she did relay the news to the attending physician. The doctor didn't think this was significant, either, but he ordered a third EEG, without informing the family--not wanting to generate any false hope. The EEG was performed, but no results had been reported by the time I left. Upon my arrival the third day, the day scheduled to be the end of life support for the patient, the nurse informed me that the EEG had shown an undeniable increase in brain activity, and that the family had consented to waiting a couple more days, just to see what developed. We observed some movements through that day, but still nothing significant. My days in the unit were then over. About a week and a half later, I delivered a patient to the same floor, and told my partner to wait while I went into the unit to ask about the patient. Although I remain a realist in such situations, my heart dropped a little bit when I saw a different patient in her room. I asked the nurse about the lady, expecting her to tell me when she had died. Instead she told me that she had gone home with an excellent prognosis less than a week after my last day in the unit. Following up on the patient, as she lived within about 20 miles of me, I eventually learned that she lived over three more years without needing any assistance--she had made a full recovery.

I relate this lengthy story to illustrate that almost all of medical diagnoses and analyses are educated guesses. In no area that I can imagine is this more true than in matters of brain activity and consciousness. There is no excuse for not exhausting every measure available to determine a patient's true condition in this area. I, as a paramedic, act under the advance direction of a physician--"standing orders," if you will. If I enter a scene in which a patient is in cardiac arrest, in the absence of a written, current, and present DNR, I am to err on the side of life. I must temper this decision with common sense--the patient's "down-time" and the wishes of the family enter into the equation to some degree, but when the choice falls exclusively into my lap, I will, ten times out of ten, turn all of my efforts and energies to helping the patient. That, in my opinion, and the opinion of most physicians, is the only ethical thing to do.

Had Terri Schiavo been afforded all available tests to conclude that no brain activity existed other than reflexive neural loops, and had her husband and guardian shown himself to have her best interests at heart, I would feel much differently about this case. In no wise did those gentlemen who penned the law giving exclusive rights in this matter to the patient's spouse intend that this type of decision be made by a spouse who was estranged to this degree from the patient. His "in sickness and in health . . . til death do us part," vow has been thrown into the same incinerator as he now wishes to throw Terri. I know full well the complexity of this issue, but when all the facts are considered, the burden of proof should lie upon those who wish to end Terri's life, not upon those who would keep her alive.

Jeff asked: "Are you combining the House and the Senate?"

Um-- I wasn't... maybe I typoed, it was like 1 in the morning after a 4 hour blogapthon. Maybe my eyes were tired, I'll check.

UPDATE: No I was right, 112

Jewels I have a copy and I'm trying to upload it.

P