Paul, you are so right. Benedict will not get a honeymoon. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Benedict receives the same vitriol that President Bush got once he announced he was running for president. There won't be a honeymoon.

C'mon Paul, you know you can always count on DU to be on the cutting edge of Leftwing Moonbattery.

What gets me is that one wonders why anybody would think that a non-orthodox guy would be chosen Pope. Even the most "liberal" of the cardinals would be too orthodox for most of these people. It's like complaining why can't the Catholics be like the Episcopalians... if we wanted to be Episcopalians, we would already have joined the ECUSA.

If it had been Cardinal Arinze who had been chosen, there would have been a "honeymoon" in that none of the MSM would dare be the first to attack a black African Pope. But they would have found out that Arinze is even harsher than our current Pope, and eventually their heads would explode.

In any case, this is going to be fun to watch to see which media person will be the most anti-Catholic.

Paul,

You are correct. I am predicting that Chris Matthews will be doing a peice on "Is this the end of the Catholic Church". The MSM has had to cover religion for 3 straight weeks without a good negative story. It must be killing them.

After all remember that Cardinal Ratzinger Agreed with U.S. Bishops in Debating On Withholding Eucharist from Pro-Abort Politicians

C'mon Paul. You know that the only Pope that would make the inmates at DU happy would be an athiest, non-white transgendered transvestite anarcho-socialsit.
That, or Dworkin's corpse. Assuming they haven't turned her skull into a bong already.

The question that you put in your blockquote isn't crazy. He will turn the church back - - as he is more a hardliner than John Paul II was. And, he was a member of the Nazi party in his youth.

You can claim that is "bashing", but there isn't anything in the person's statement that is not fact.

As for the "lost opportunity"... making a joke out of honest and sincere complaints from people within the Catholic faith doesn't really make you sound better. None of the Cardinals would have opened up the "opportunities" you sarcastically enumerate, but there were that could have given the Church a more loving and less dictator like reach.

Here's a news flash for you Bill.....

The Catholic church selected a pope that was (gasp) Catholic.

Why exactly should we be shocked???

But thanks for making sure your side was represented.

And Bill knows from personal experience that Pope Ratzinger is not a loving man, no doubt.

The Catholic Faith is not a political party. It is not run by politicians who care to "broaden its base" and thereby become a more formidable presence.

Pope John II was as loving and benevolent a leader as the Church has ever had, but he did not waiver in closely hewing to the orthodoxy. Neither should Ratzinger.

If American Catholics want something else, they're free to go. The Church will be no less strong without them.

I am going to go out on a ledge and say all the Cardinals are Catholic. Call me crazy. So, I would have only been "shocked" had they elected somebody that wasn't present in the Sistine Chapel.

You shouldn't be shocked, you should be disappointed. There was an opportunity for the Church to select someone that not only bleed Catholicism, and stood by the words of their God, but also reached out to others of the world in a respectful instead of totalitarion manner.

You can act outraged and point fingers at me being left of center on social issues - - but attacking statements that aren't infactual so you can feel better about yourself isn't the way to go.

Benedict XVI isn't a contiuation of John Paul II, he reversion back to an even far more stricter Church. Regardless of the complaints against John Paul, it was clear he was a humanitarian that opened his arms to everyone, even if he disagreed with them. Benedict's resume makes one believe that to disagree is to be unworthy of his open arms.

For a church battling image problems lately, save the last three weeks, it is a bit strange that they selected the person they did.

You don't always have to vehemently and angrily disagree with everything somebody says just because they don't say exactly what you want Paul. I am hoping nobody has told you that before and that is the reason you leave rational thought at the door and only bring cult like support into everything you talk about.

As a Catholic I know to be true; if a Pope that a liberal or Andrew Sullivan would approve, who would back their agenda, where to somehow ger elected, it would the beggining of a third great schism. As the conservative churches in Africa and Latin America would never accept anything like gay marriage or abortion. This is something that I have not seen noted on by the press.

Paul, you're right. I've always been amused by people who are amazed that the Pope would actually believe in Catholic doctrine, and beyond that, would insist on Catholic doctrine.

It's churches that abandon their doctrine in order to be relevant (as opposed to timeless) that are really in trouble, i.e., the Episcopal Church.

I love how it is all about abortion and gay marriage. Nobody is asking for the church to put at its head a person that would agree with those two things. That would do nothing but lead to two Catholic churches.

What was hoped for in some circles was a Pope that didn't outwardly view people with questions about their religion to be dissenters that were only worthy of excommunication.

Bill

Are you being serious or is this satire???

"There was an opportunity..."

You can't be saying this with a straight face.

Note to Liberals - This is not your day. Can you guys ever be happy about anything that has nothing to do with you? Stick to saving the earth and bush bashing cause that's all your good at. Geez, Ratzinger is selected and you act like it's the end of the world. Get a life or STFU.

Bill K,

I was raised as a Catholic and I think the problem most looking for a more "liberal" or "open" Church have is the assumption the Church has a fundamental problem and needs to reach out to a broader audience.

That isn't the mindset of a large portion of the Church. If anything, their view is the liberal part of the world has a fundamental problem and they are missing an opportunity to "return to the fold".

Vatican II was not universally accepted by the world's Catholics.

The world has changed quite a bit in 2000 years. Governments, philosphies, liberalism, conservatism, left wing and right wing have all come and gone while the Church hasn't changed much and is still functioning. They simply won't change their beliefs because a fickle world wants them too. They've seen it all before....

BTW Bill- reread my reply and yours.... I'm not the angry one.

OMFG, they didn't elect a Pope who would please the American liberal lefty non-Catholics!

Are these people really that stupid?

But, to quote Coumo,"the conservatives write their message in crayon while liberals use a fine quill".

Anyone who still uses a quill can't be that smart -- it's a pain in the ass.

Absinthe drinkin MF's.

diclaimer --- this post is a tribute to skynet, skymart, skybird or whatever that guys name is.

(the views remain my own)

Nice, don't actually respond just make fun.

So anything your President or Church does should be met with absolute devotion? No questions. No debate. No discussion.

Because in no way have I said the Church was insane for doing this, just that I thought it was a bit strange. In no way did I say this would be the downfall of the Church.

That being said there WAS an opportunity to choose a leader who was more inviting than a former Nazi and current doctrinal watchdog.

It is incredible how any opinion different from yours, even if slight, is always met with outrage.

I think they had to make their decision today, because you know the shit would hit the fan if they picked a German pope on Hitlers birthday.

Paul, your whole post is about outrage that somebody dare question the selection.

When the white smoke came from the chimney, you knew a new pope was elected.

When the white smoke came from Sullivan's ears, you knew it was Ratzinger.

Just as Rall has his Geralissimo Bush delusions, Sullivan will spend his declining years demonizing Ratzinger/Bennie the 16th.

Your right Faith + 1 the Church has always only been okay with homosexual sex if it is between a priest and an underage boy. They obviously haven't changed at all.

>So anything your President or Church does should be met with absolute devotion?

Do you really not understand the difference between a government and a church?

besides I'm speaking of beliefs not actions.

Your = you're

Paul, your whole post is about outrage that somebody dare question the selection.

WRONG WRONG WRONG

My whole post was about the fact someone would be outraged NO MATTER the selection.

Which BTW your posts prove. thanks.

OOOOH now Bill just gets ugly.

Nice.

When did I say I would have been outraged about any selection? When did I say I was outraged by this selection?

I am frustrated that you can't go five minutes without ripping on people that say something that differs from your opinion, regardless of how slight.

It is as if questions offend you.

Funny that you ask me if I understand the difference between a government and a church - - seeing as how I am the one that is trying to combine them, right?

I consider that to be unnecessarily sarcastic not ugly :-)

>>When did I say I would have been outraged about any selection? When did I say I was outraged by this selection?

reread what I wrote.

>I am frustrated that you can't go five minutes without ripping on people that say something that differs from your opinion, regardless of how slight.
Bill you are the ripping people, not me.

>>It is as if questions offend you.
No, but lack of common sense does.

>>Funny that you ask me if I understand the difference between a government and a church - - seeing as how I am the one that is trying to combine them, right?

Well, yes you did. "So anything your President or Church does should be met with absolute devotion?"

All I know about this guy so far is the homily quoted at Hugh Hewitt's (http://www.hughhewitt.com/#postid1553). I'm not a Catholic, but that ain't bad.

As for being a Nazi youth -- isn't the Church all about redemption? Saul of Tarsus was one mean SOB, and look how Paul turned out!

Research is called for *before* offering opinions, so I'm still reserving mine.

Bill maybe you don't get the point everyone else manages to get....

NO MATTER who they selected (short of Al Franken) they were going to be bashed by people like you.

You couldn't make 6 posts before the obligatory pedophile priest remark.

Despite your best efforts you proved I was right all along.

Calm down, Ranten. I'm about to nail Bill K's balls to the wall. Bill, in your very first post, you told this whopper:

And, he was a member of the Nazi party in his youth.

Bill, he was 18 when WWII ended. Want to explain how he could have been a Nazi party member in grade school? True, he was enrolled in the Hitler Youth as a teenager -- just like every other teenage boy in Nazi Germany. It wasn't optional. That is a far, far cry from being "a member of the Nazi party."

Now go blow, you disgusting pig. We don't need liars like you here.

Saying you never disagree with two people does mean I think the two people are the same entities. I make it a point to not disagree with my girlfriend or mom - - I would NEVER confuse those relationships.

My point was that you have an inability to disagree with leaders of your party regardless of their positions. Even if those opinions are not stagnate.

As for ripping people, besides you, who am I ripping on? All I said was that there was an opportunity for a different selection.

As for common sense, where am I lacking it? Oh, yeah, I forgot, I am SHOCKED that a Catholic was elected Pope. Hmm, actually, perhaps suggesting people are shocked because a Catholic Pope was elected is, in and of itself, a demonstration of lack of common sense.

Here's the question, Bill K, are you Catholic? And by that, I mean do you go to church every Sunday?

And if you are a Catholic, then why haven't you moved on already? No one is holding you to that faith.