You know you keep thinking that some have hit bottom and, lo and behold, they discover another strata. At that point you just quit measuring as they burrow out of site. They are not serious people in a philosophical sense though their actions are. Fortunately, their message joins them in their plot. The only concern becomes what of the epitaph on the tombstone. The etchers are certainly keeping well employed with these two.

That's what the famous Big Tent of the left gets you, it not only encompasses the the circus, it welcomes the sideshow freaks into the party also.

Well when Clinton was in power and the fringe right-wingers had their panties in a wad, they never did anything like this.

They just blew up an office building in Oklahoma City. Not to mention assorted abortion clinics and gay bars. I don't condone this behavior at all but you have to admit, it's not quite as lethal as the right wing version of the same crap.

Rick DeMent:

Are you saying that stuff wouldn't have happened without Clinton?

I mean, what is your point, exactly?

Rick:

This a government official we're talking about here! Not some freakin' loon who bombs office buildings, clinics and gay bars. Not even CLOSE to the same thing.

(Gay bars? When and where have those been blown up? I've lived in 2 of America's gayest cities—SF and Seattle—and have NEVER heard of any gay bar being bombed. Proof, please.)

Rick DeMent,

You're saying both of the above were committed by the left-wing fringe? The Lt. Gov. of PA is part of the left-wing fringe; that's your contention? As yet, we have no idea who set the car fire. You're positing that was some loony left-winger, too, are you?

If not, then get a real clue, my friend. I don't condone or support the right wing troglodytes who bomb federal buildings OR abortion clinics. In each case, the perps got exactly what they deserve.

Your comparison, tho, is totally off base. Unless, of course, you're blaming the above on left-wing nut cases.

Are you?

Regards...

I didn't know jane fonda was the Lt Guv of Pennsa-tucky. Wow...she really let herself go....YUCK!

Michelle Malkin has a copy of the "letter of apology" that the Lt. Gov. sent to the family. It was faxed to her by the chief of staff in order to make sure it got publicity (that says something about its meaning). The Lt. Gov. totally ignores the point about her anti-war ranting and pretends that never happened. She pretends that she just came on a normal condolence call.

(Gay bars? When and where have those been blown up? I've lived in 2 of America's gayest cities—SF and Seattle—and have NEVER heard of any gay bar being bombed. Proof, please.)

One in the southeast by Eric RObert Rudolph, I think. That's the only one I know of.

And this is problematic how?

Is it like there is something wrong here?

Isn't the current state of politics that anything goes.
Out CIA Operatives. Act as if 'being at war' is the
quick and cheap political expediency in lieu of
any actual argument.

So if folks are really concerned about some sort of desecration
of our 'honored fallen dead' wouldn't it be a good thing to
actually consider the whole range of desecrations?

Or is that the problem here. Dealing with the actual desecration of the honored dead remains too emotionally traumatizing to the victims of ChickenHawk Angst, as they vote with their feet against what their lips were flapping against.

Rick,

No one is out there celebrating violence like OKC or an abortion clinic bombing. Those are disgusting criminal acts that do not represent any popular belief system. It is one thing to disagree, and another thing entirely to kill over such disagreement. The ones who react in that manner deserve the needle that is surely headed their way.

The actions of the idiot Lt. Gov and the flag-burning ghouls are not, despite what you'd like everyone to believe, the acts of some sort of lunatic fringe on the Left. More and more, such actions represent the "new mainstreram" of leftist thinking, as espoused by sites like Kos and MoveOn.

The idea that the "right wing version" is to go and start blowing things up is a crock of B.S.

When Lefties assemble nowadays, as they did recently in San Fran, violence and destruction are usually not far behind. That's the sad truth, and that's why all the left does anymore is lose come Election Day.

drieux:

What kind of blabbering nonsense are you espousing? It's OK to descrecrate the dead in the name of getting your 'cause' out/voice heard? Is that really part of your humanity? Did the Lt. Gov. even stop for one minute to consider the emotional state of the family at a FUNERAL? Who said "anything goes" at a funeral for crying out loud. You think the ALLEGED (still) outing of an ALLEGED CIA operative justifies dishonoring not only the deceased but the relatives of the deceased? Whatever your disagreement with our foreign policy and actions, it by no means justifies your (or the Lt. Gov.'s) inhumanity and disrespect toward the deceased or their relatives.

RE: Rick DeMent's post (July 25, 2005 03:45 PM)

...they never did anything like this.

They just blew up an office building in Oklahoma City. Not to mention assorted abortion clinics and gay bars. I don't condone this behavior at all but you have to admit, it's not quite as lethal as the right wing version of the same crap.

Of course there are nuts on both sides who aren't necessarily ideologues as much as they are psychopaths. No, the issue, as already emphasized by Peter and LoadTheMule, is that one of the actors is a Lt. Governor of a rather populated state... a not insignificant point. It would be irresponsible to equate the two.

RE: drieux's post (July 25, 2005 04:23 PM)

And this is problematic how?
Is it like there is something wrong here?
...
Dealing with the actual desecration of the honored dead remains too emotionally traumatizing to the victims of ChickenHawk Angst, as they vote with their feet against what their lips were flapping against.

I'm not sure I follow that last line. Do you mean "chickenhawks" are running away from what they are saying that they are against? I'm confused.

Anyway, let me propose the concept that the family knew their son better than anyone and considered this an obscenity and offense. If they were offended, then that is enough for me. Forget the etiquette that each of us decides is appropriate or inappropriate. I believe she was well out of bounds and quite disgraceful to politick at a funeral. Ultimately, that is irrelevant... but his family's sentiment and the feelings of those assembled are not.

She will deservedly lose her office over this unless the soldier's family publicly accepts her apology. She may lose it anyway.

>And this is problematic how?

Evidently the fellow who wrote this saw no problem with the Paul Wellstone memorial service cum Walter Mondale political pep rally a few years back. Nope, no problem there. That was a natural outcome of the "current state of politics". We on the left are just automata and can't help ourselves. In truth it's the fault of all you righties!

And you wonder why you keep losing ground.

Oh yes, I give so much credence to an article that points to leftists, with absolutely no proof the flag burning was done by anyone on the left. And by the way, there are Republicans out there that are against the war. Of course I am sure you would like to burn them at the stake.

drieux: If you feel that strongly about it, why haven't you volunteered your services as a human shield? Chicken-dove.

Of course I am sure you would like to burn them at the stake.

Um, no. Unlike you, I don't believe differences of opinion are a capital offense.

why do you folks presume I am not a Republican Veteran?

Simply because I ask the simple question of why you have
problems with this?

Could it be that your leap of faith has run away with you.

So why not try to explain to me why this is problematic.

drieux:

I know veterans currently. I've known veterans in the past. I've played golf every Sat. and Sun. with veterans from the local VA hospital. If indeed you are a veteran, you know the answer to your very own inhumane, disrespectful and moronic statements. Statements I sincerely doubt ANY veteran would make regarding the Lt. Gov.'s ugly attempt at politicking at a FUNERAL.

joe:

Oh, and I still see no proof (yet) that Eric Rudolph bombed a gay bar. I've seen no evidence (yet) that says the Otherside Lounge was a gay bar (though the name is a pretty big indicator of the possible clientele, that means squat).

Again, the terrorist acts of a private citizen, one not associated or employed by the government versus the acts of a government employee, are two ENTIRELY different matters.

I just finished viewing "We Were Soldiers" and I can tell you, this story of this particular vandalism of this soldier's family is about as vile as ever could be -- with the "We Were Soldiers" story exemplifying just what some humans give and endure so people can be alive today in our country, to vandalise and be brutes with complete irresponsibility (not that that's the motive for military service, just saying, for their lives, some creeps get to be here today to do whatever else).

Rick DeMent...there was one person who "blew up a building in Oklahoma City" that's been proven -- and he's been put to death for that murdering act -- and a few others still with penalty due, also involved.

That hardly represents "the righties" as if the murderers involved with Oklahoma City were members of a larger political group that includes conservatives, Republicans as a characteristic.

It's a very dishonorable and grim snip you've made there, hardly worth saying anything more about.

I mean, comparing "leftists" with "righties...who got their panties in a wad" and then blew up the Murrah Building in Oklahoma is incredibly nasty to even suggest. You write without human compassion or even sensitivity about these incidents.

How did she hear about this funeral of a soldier?

My paper and local news doesn't even mention dead soldiers.

Peter,

As long as you make a point this is one person, and not "the left".

Robert:

Absotutely, with a caveat: She' IS a Democratic representative of her constituents. But she alone is the loon and likely (and hopefully) does not speak or act on behalf of most Dems. It would be utterly shameful if she took such a stance.

I like the word ALLEDGED.

As in the ALLEDGED war in Iraq.
Here's one guy that doesn't believe in it.
Why not?

I still haven't seen one flag-draped coffin come back to the US and I read the newspaper and watch the TV news every day.
No gas rationing.
No scrap metal drives.
Tax cuts (during time of war, I don't think so!)
Outing a covert CIA agent. Not if there's really a war going on.
I took a look at the US budget. Not one dollar in that budget for wartime activities.

Who are these fools that really believe a war is going on.
I call Bullsh**.

Um...Robert, buddy...either I was in a war, or they sure put on the most expensive fireworks and laser light show in the history of man. in the middle of a desert.

the burning things that looked like bodies and tanks, as well as the MASH filled with people in wounded make-up was a nice touch.

so great some folks know veterans.

I am a veteran, I am a republican.

I am still trying to understand why you folks
are unwilling to discuss what is your moral standard here.

Could it be that folks are afraid to deal with the actual issues?

Could it be that you have boxed yourselves in as we tried to warn you, back in 1988, that you might not want to crawl out on that limb about 'draft dodgers' ??? Hum???

So why is it a bad thing to play politics on the graves of fallen veterans? On the Wounded And Maimed?

Fundamentally what really changed in the congressional authorization between when clinton was bombing iraq and the current operations there? Hum???

Please. Do clarify which moral standard if any you folks are really willing to stand up and be counted for.

The fact that you are still here, in the rear, with the beer, after the 2nd attack on the world trade center is speaking loudly to those of us who served.

how do folks get to leap to 'leftist' when, assuming that we were at war, then the burning of flags could be one of those Super Secret Al-Qaeda Terrorist cells that we have been hearing about since before the soviets pulled out of Afghanistan.

or is that too a part of the problem here.

it is easier to whine and blame others than to do your part and actively get up off your collective duffs and into the war.

A war that some of us have been involved in for over 30 years now.

Why is it all of a sudden fashionable to be so trendy and chic now? Or at least play acting as if you were concerned enough. Well at least slightly more concerned than after the 1st attack on the WTC. As some will have learned from recent reporting on the Young College Republicans, some are even thinking seriously about getting involved if there is a 3rd, 4th or 5th attack on the world trade center.

Why is that?

or do you folks forget when Karl Rove was running the Young Republicans when some of us were dealing with Medivac Flights out of Saigon....

Hum?

RE: drieux's post (July 25, 2005 08:38 PM)

So why is it a bad thing to play politics on the graves of fallen veterans?...

As I suggested earlier, because she imposed herself upon the family in their moment of grief. Their public rebuke is evidence of their position and everyone should respect it. I don't care if it is the President of the United States or the Pope or Mohammed or Ghandi or [insert world leader or pontif of choice] - if the family does not want you there or if the deceased left a will indicating who could(not) attend, then you respect it. Period.

Would one of you who have stated that abortion clinics and gay bars were blown up during the Clinton administration please back up your assertions? That means links, people, and multiple examples.

I'm not saying that it hasn't happened, but I am deeply skeptical that multiple abortion clinics were blown up during the Clinton administration. Seems like the sort of thing the liberal media would have been all over and would still be talking about today.

AnonymousDrivel writes: As I suggested earlier, because she imposed herself upon the family in their moment of grief.

Why am I not surprised that it has nothing whatsoever to do with any supposed disrespect to the memory of the deceased person?

Drieux, I think that might be where you got confused. You maybe were thinking these folks were concerned about anything other than the feelings of the relatives. It isn't that the Lt. Governor paid a condolence call to the funeral for a marine, and she handed out a few business cards when people asked who she was— it was that the family of the dead marine had their feelings hurt "in their moment of grief" when it seemed to them that a politician was politicking at their dead marine's funeral. God help any politician who accidentally hurts the feelings of a grieving family by paying a condolence call at a funeral.

"Hey, who asked you to play politics on the grave of our dead marine? That's our job!"

AnonymousDrivel writes: As I suggested earlier, because she imposed herself upon the family in their moment of grief.

Why am I not surprised that it has nothing whatsoever to do with any supposed disrespect to the memory of the deceased person?

The one implies the other, you idiot.

Oops: I meant to add "s9 responds:" to the second paragraph of my comment. The reply was not aimed at AD.