I'm going to pose a simple question. What government in this world could have erected a sea wall or some barrier that could have prevented the storm surge from hitting an area from the Florida Panhandle to Westside of New Orleans in 5 days? Answer: None!

Lot’s of things could have, and should have been done. However, no one could have prevented the damage from occurring. It would have taken 10-20 years to build such a barrier – if possible.

All of the preparation should fall to the local governments. Big picture – democrats, republicans, ET all, should be accountable but only for the aftermath. No one has yet been able to stop Nature.

When will we learn to walk together? When will we put aside our differences? When will we see things as a whole? Everything that happens today – comes off as “them” against “Us.” I tell you I for one am getting tired of this crap. Is it too much to ask that we all just pull together for the better of all?

OK, I’m done venting…if you have not in some way donated, or offered to help the victims of Katrina – please do.

No beer and you refer to it as a survival kit?

That puts it on a personal level, about which I agree with you. It discusts me to see our "leaders" pointing fingers instead of getting the job done. When you cut to the chase, the people who are really doing something ignore the burearcrats and just DO SOMETHING! God I love the common sense every day type American person!!!!

Sorry, Bullwinkle, I don't drink, so I don't know the price of beer. What is it these days -- about ten bucks for a twelvepack? You can do the math from there...

J.

Don't forget, you need a $200 shotgun and $30 of ammunition so you can manage to keep all that other stuff.

harkyman:

I haven't priced shotguns in a while, but I'll bet you could pick up a good used Winchester or Mossberg or even an Ithaca pump for $100.00-125.00. A Remington would cost a little more. And a double barreled side-by-side would be even cheaper.(If you can find one; everybody these days wants the over-and-unders.)

Heck, shop at Costco and for about double that, you could *gain* weight during the emergency.

Hmmm.

"Heck, shop at Costco and for about double that, you could *gain* weight during the emergency."

You got that right. I'd like to know who really needs 5 gallon containers of mayonnaise.

Well. Maybe not. :)

Actually double barrel side by sides are getting pretty pricey. I was looking for one a couple years ago and the cheapest I could find (including pawnshops) was $500 and that was in Montana. I haven't seen one for under $1000 in the Seattle area. I will stick with my Mossberg pump ($125)

I'm with Bullwinkle, without beer, its not really surviving. A case of beer in one of those 30 gallon coolers will double as a liferaft.

Tob

Good post Jay. Just some comments on it. A lot of the people trapped in NO don't have 2 nickles to rub together and for them to spend $50+ dollars for survival gear is just not going to happen. They live hand to mouth and day to day.

This thread of conversation about survival kits is so off-the-wall bonkers that I can hardly believe it is being discussed. There hasn't been a single person who's said "10,000 people wouldn't have died if we'd all gotten some Dinty Moore stew ahead of time."

The call for survival kits in 2002 also called for duct tape, which would have done a lot of good for the victims of Katrina, I'm sure. The arguments about survival kits 3 years ago weren't against preparedness but against the idiotic distraction tactic that they were used for. They seriously were trying to tell us that duct tape and canned food should be procured in case of a suitcase bomb? Give me a break.

And I know this survival kit business seems like a fun thread to keep going, because it allows you to take little jabs at some lefty bloggers. That's fine if you want to concentrate your ire on Kos and Atrios... I'm certainly not in the business of defending other bloggers.... but you are inadvertantly blaming the vicitms of Katrina by saying they wouldn't have died if they'd just heeded the administrations plea to get together a couple of flashlights and some canned goods... give me a break.

But, I will say this: If "being against survival kits" is the best you can do to impeach the lefty bloggers, then I feel pretty good about which side I'm standing on.

I'd like to know who really needs 5 gallon containers of mayonnaise.

Sounds like an even better looter-deterrent than the shotgun.

I know I've never mentioned it, but I loathe mayonnaise.

The best survival kit I've heard of so far was a pair of sneakers going 3 MPH hightailing it out of there in the first place....

I suppose that the Manual can opener from Dollar Store would be of value to those individuals so negligent and unprepared as to not have a P-38 on their keyring.

They seriously were trying to tell us that duct tape and canned food should be procured in case of a suitcase bomb? Give me a break.

Then you're not too bright. Outside the immediate blast zone from a suitcase nuke would be chaos for days, lost power, that kind of thing. Canned food would be quite helpful right about then. And sealing up the windows of the house to keep excessive amounts of fallout from getting in wouldn't be a bad idea either.

The cheap food version of the list above:

10 pounds rice: $5
5 pounds beans: $5

My husband is retired Air Force- enlisted. We have seven children, and we will take that five gallon jar of mayo.
We spent five years in a typhoon prone location, and we spent time in Alaska, and other locations where blizzards were common. We've been without power and without water for a week at a time because of a blizzard. We've been unable to get out of our home because of a blizzard.
The nicest thing I can say is that it's shortsighted to suggest that duct tape would be useless. Windows break, and in bad weather being able to duct tape a garbage bag or sheet to the gaping hole in the wall is a good thing. so is being able to tape together found items to make an emergency crutch, a raft, a shelter, to seal up a hole in your food supplies- it's simply incredibly useful.
I also think I can safely say that we have, for years at a time, lived 'hand to mouth,' and yet, we managed to stock up three days worth of food and water for a family of seven every single year.
I fully understand that there still exist some people so poverty stricken that they can't, and I understand that very likely some people floated out one window while their emergency supplies floated out another.
What I will never, ever understand is why just because *some* people can't, the left feel compelled to make the situation worse by promoting the view that doing what you can to lay by some emergency supplies is too hard for all the dumb poor people. That kind of compassion is deadly.

If anybody is interested in how we managed to stock emergency supplies while supporting a family of seven on one enlisted man's salary, I've been giving tips on frugal preparedness over on my blog for the last week or so, and plan to continue. Cans of Dinty Moore Stew are, frankly, out of our price range for emergency supplies for nine people- but I do not begrudge them to somebody who can afford them, nor do I think that because we have to do it differently, it's somehow unfair or unkind of Jay to stock up on stew. There is just something horribly, murderously, demeaning in the thought processes of those who would discount the importance of urgently encouraging everybody to do as much as they possibly can to try to have three days worth of emergency supplies.
The poor, and I have been very poor, do not need that sort of 'compassion.' It'd be more humane to shoot us, frankly.

I'd be interested to find where someone on the left said that poor people were too dumb or too black to put together an emergency kit.

But it is incredibly idiotic to believe that duct tape will stop nuclear fallout.

"But it is incredibly idiotic to believe that duct tape will stop nuclear fallout."

Why? Fallout is dust. Anything that keeps dust out will work. I'm old enough to have taken manditory civil defense courses in school. I still know how to open a contaminated can to minimize the risk of fallout getting into the food itself.

Its weird the things that stick with you.

Tob

Toby, I'm guessing Dylan got his knowledge of radiation from horror movies and thinks it crawls, of its own volition, around all barriers in its path.

Laugh about duct tape all you want but it's worth it's weight in gold if you need it. Fallout isn't the only thing it can help keep out, it can provide enough of a seal to keep you alive in case of of a chemical or biological weapon attack, can cut down on the amount of glass flying through your living room during torandos and explosions and also works great to keep unruly children quiet.

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/61/67284.htm

DeputyHeadmistress,

You're my kind of gal! From one AF enlisted to another, you've got the right stuff.

Proud to be on the same side as you.

Cheers,

Cardinals Nation

Has anyone besides me noticed that the group of people that deride the duct tape thing the most is the exact same group of people that rely so heavily on keeping the Reynolds Wrap™ attached to their walls, ceilings and heads?

Dylan,

Hate to break it to you buddy, but they didn't invent the survival kit meme a couple of years ago, it's been a standard recommendation from FEMA and the Red Cross for decades. Get it? DECADES. As in more than twenty (20) years.

Now you sound as if you've never actually been in a disaster before, and logic doesn't seem to be your strong suite, but let me step you through this:

It's accepted SOP that State and Local emergency relief agencies have sufficient supplies and manpower for 72 to 96 hours of operations without Federal support. FEMA resources can take that long to get deployed even when the person in charge isn't a raging incompetent like Brown. To this end FEMA and the Red Cross have long recommended that every individual and family have a disaster preparedness kit with the following:

You should have at least a gallon of water per person per day in your kit. Why? Hydration, Food Preperationa, and Sanitation.

You should have enough food to provide 1200 to 1800 calories per person. The food should have a long term stable shelf life, MREs are perfect but expensive. Canned goods are a good backup. The Dinty Moore would make me wretch.

You should have a decent first aid kit, at least one large pressure bandage and a couple of rolls of gauze in addition to a standard store kit are my suggestion.

You should have a flashlight, batteries, a battery-powered radio, a manual can opener, a mess kit and some cash on hand because it may be a while before ATMs and Banks are available.

You should have at least one complete change of clothes and an extra pair of shoes per person.

You should pack any special items you might need, like diapers, formula, meds, etc.

You should have at least one roll of duct tape and some plastic sheeting or a plastic tarp. This is used for what's called "Sheltering in Place". Where you've taken shelter may have become exposed to the elements, plastic sheeting and duct tape can provide an excellent temporary weather barrier.

With regards to DHS uses, the Israelis have used plastic sheeting and duct tape to protect their populace against chemical and bio-agent attack since Gulf War I. They do this by establishing safe rooms within homes and appartments and protect people form chemical attack.These materials were chosen because of their ability to effectively reduce infiltration and for their resistance to permeation from chemical warfare agents. The seal doesn't have to be air tight, it just has to reduce the particualte infiltration rate.

BTW, I'm a volunteer MEMA (Missouri Emergency Management Agency) coordinator and have been doing EOP and Disaster Relief work for over 12 years now.

They do this by establishing safe rooms within homes and appartments and protect people form chemical attack.These materials were chosen because of their ability to effectively reduce infiltration and for their resistance to permeation from chemical warfare agents.

Exactly. The seal can be too good sometimes.

Dylan, I fear, is one of those people who rants against the (Republican) government but fully expects the government to save him when disaster occurs. Except he doesn't have the "poor and disadvantaged" excuse to fall back upon.

Poor people don't have $50. Try watching 30 days where Morgan Spurlock & his girlfriend try to live on minimum wage.

Uh, GoMommyGo, I guess you didn't read DeputyHeadmistress' comment on how to do it for a helluva lot less than fifty bucks.

Re: Dylan"s comment (9/6/2005 @ 1:54 PM)

Who on this thread said poor people are "too black" to put together an emergency kit? As for being too dumb, isn't that the underlying theme of liberalism? Aren't we sheep are too dumb to watch out for ourselves so we need liberals to sheperd us through life?

Since the sewage system is usually the first to go I would recommend alot of cheese.

GoMommyGo:

...and I guess you skipped the part where Morgan Spurlock and his girlfriend kept having to turn down job offers with more money, plus refused any sort of public aid (which would have been a hundred bucks a month in food stamps alone).

As I pointed out above, you don't need really cool stuff, or expensive items. Rice and beans and candles and refilled empty bottles make a decent emergency kit - certainly enough to make it a week without help - and it won't cost more than a few bucks.

If you're living the "po' folks" lifestyle (I have), you already buy bulk lots of cheap food, since that's most of what you can afford.

Thank-you, Cardinals Nation, and right back to you.

You know, something else that bothers me about the naysayers in this thread is their assumption that encouraging people to be prepared is the same things as assuming they all have fifty dollars to buy a ready made emergency kit right now. You don't have to buy all the emergency kit items in one day. You can, and most of us do, build it up over time.

Dylan- as far as I know, you are the only one to bring race into this thread. Wonder why.

There are babies who died of dehydration during this disaster. If somebody near them had had an emergency kit, it would have included water and they might not have died. I understand that some EMT and First Responder guides outline the use of duct tape for emergency bandaging of gunshot wounds, and I know that campers and hikers recommend it for sealing the kinds of wounds where you need a great big butterfly bandage and can't get to the doctor in a timely manner- you know, sort of like in the aftermath of a hurricane. After three surgeries, a metal plate and six screws and a skin graft, duct taping a plastic bag around the cast is what our doctor recommended to my husband to keep his cast dry when showering- I imagine if you have a wound, or something that just needs to be kept dry, a plastic bag and duct tape would be great to have in an emergency.
I'd also point out that it was duct tape that figured prominantly in a recent dramatic space shuttle repair.
They use duct tape to seal shut the arm and leg openings of hazmat suits.
Basically, anything that needs patched, bound together, or sealed can be taken care of with duct tape.
Anybody mocking the addition of duct tape to an emergency kit has simply never, ever thought about it very hard or done any homework. There is nothing stupid about including it in an emergency kit- but there is something very stupid about mocking it without having a clue.

Raman Noodles.

Toilet paper: Remembered by few, missed by many.

OK, it's a luxury and once it's wet, it's useless. But it allows you to feel somewhat better about things.

Also, I would advocate buying several can openers; it's too easy to lose one. P-38s are great, P-51s (I think these were the jumbo versions) are better.

Seems like Dylan is suddenly absent. Duct tape is a miricale item. With that and some bailing wire, we fixed just about everything on the farm. I wouldb't be caught without it. Oh, and my Winchester pump was $165 brand new. I'm going to get another one so my wife can be loadi