Being from Manhattan, KS I take exception to the OU/Kansas game...

OU/KSU more like it

TATP is also hellaciously unstable. The jihadi-of-the-moment may simply have jumped over something as simple as a garden hose in his way and the shock of landing set off the TATP.

TATP is "easy" to make. To make TATP that won't explode when you look at it cross-eyed is much more difficult. Yes, the Darwin jihadi may well have had access to OU chem labs, but he obviously failed to read all the fine print in the recipe

Northeast Intelligence Network is NOT a reliable source. After the 7/7 London bombings they said (just HOURS after it happened) that one of the bombers was a Guantanamo releasee. They were using same kind of language in that report as in the one you quoted. They're safe to ignore.

Northeast intelligence Network may or may not be up to snuff.

But there article is based off this WorldNetDaily report:

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46640

Although conservatively oriented, it isn't a conspiracy website.

Having sources is important, but I still chuckle when the official says that his conversation is "off the record" and yet here it is...

And that "Darwin-Jihadi" was great!

It's the other way around - the World Net Daily report is taken from the Northeast Intelligence Network report. Doug Hagmann, whose byline is on the latter, is quoted all over the former. He appears to be the one and only "investigator" responsible for crafting this stuff.

This makes me sick. Just a short time after conservative bloggers (rightly) got all over the MSM for dishing out inflammatory rumors and gossip in the wake of Katrina, I get to see my two favorite group blogs, Powerline and Wizbang, doing pretty much the same thing. At least Powerline had the sense to express a bit of skepticism about this anonymously-sourced "report." Kevin writes it up and links it as if it's settled fact.

Again, this strikes me as no different from what the MSM did with Katrina -- reporting what you want the facts to be, so that you can blame this on the people you want to blame it on.

BTW, there was nothing "odd" about what the father said. I work at OU, and I've walked through that traffic circle during football games -- despite being close to the stadium, it actually is pretty isolated. We don't know yet what his proximity to the stadium meant, if anything. The comments from people who knew this guy indicate he didn't appear to hold any Islamic beliefs or political convictions to speak of -- he was a frat boy who battled clinical depression and had an obsessive interest in "artillery," as one classmate put it. A jihadi? No way.

If this was a premature detonation, do we actually know this was a "suicide bombing"; that is, that he intended to die in the attack rather than escape to attack another day?

I don't believe it.

Investigators do speak off the record, but I don't see 'em giving that much detail.

It's fantasy, I'd wager.

Another fanatic a fanatic who probibly listened to leftist programs and NPR as well as MOVEON and ANSWER and inspired by the islamic extremists he hears about from the liberal left-wing news media

Well, he WAS sitting on a park bench when it went off. If it was an accidental detonation before something more sinister, it seems an odd time to decide to sit.

I believe there is a good chance this was only a deeply troubled young man who decided to make a very dramatic exit. Apparently he was a National Merit Scholar experiencing both academic and emotional set-backs in college. Perhaps he planned it during the game because he knew the South Oval area during a Saturday game would be deserted.

I agree that we shouldn't jump to "conclusions". We should wait for an official report. But you do have to consider that the circumstances are more than just a little odd and does give reason to contemplate the possibility that there's more to the story. As long as one doesn't present a possibility as fact, then there's nothing wrong with speculation.

While there are some who say that suggesting there may be more is "jumping to conclusions", they too jump to conclusions insisting it was simply suicide.

Oyster is right -- asking questions != "jumping to conclusions."

Dismissing questions out of hand may not be "jumping to conclusions" either, but the sets can overlap.

If you read the current stories in OU's Oklahoman Daily you'll note that the "credible" reporting matches the backchannel sources over at Northeast Intell.

Now a few questions for you to ponder:

How often to people commit suicide using an
explosive belt?

On the same day as the Bali Beach bombing?

Who had Jihadi material in his Apartment?

And also had more explosives in his car and apartment?

Here's the "credible" links to the OU paper:
OU's The Oklahoman Daily- Investigation Continues: http://www.oudaily.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/10/03/4342003d28e95

OU's The Oklahoman Daily-Possible explosives may have been found in student’s apartment.
http://www.oudaily.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/10/03/4340c473754fd

Remember, it's in law enforcement's interests to avoid panic and the University's interest to not disuade people from going to games or thinking they're unknowningly harboring jihadi's.

OU/Kansas? What Zach said. Allthough as a KSU graduate student it would've been nice if it had been Kansas that suffered that loss and not us.

F.B.I. in Norman just told me "We don't respond to Internet rumors" and added "We stand by our report."

He gets 72 virgins, his roommate gets a 4.0.

What's not to like?

And I'm not really buying into the father's confidence that "his son didn't intend to harm anyone and wasn't motivated by a political agenda"

When he sees his father for only a half hour in a year, I highly doubt the father knew what was going on in his son's life.

Hinrichs last visited his family this year, when he stopped by for about a half hour while on a road trip, his father said.

----------

Also NEIN seems to be right about the TATP since the FBI told the father that hydrogen peroxide was used to construct the bomb, and the father told the AP.

And TATP can be made from H2O2.

So NEIN might also be correct about the Jihad papers.

Reaganite - Besides NIN and WND, have you found any other sources that confirm the idea that he used an explosive belt? The OUDaily link that you just provided seems to indicate otherwise. I have yet to see anything remotely resembling a credible source that implies that he had any kind of Jihadi literature. Can you find any real sources for this information?

Well, Laurence, I wouldn't want to be one of the 72 virgins, but otherwise I can see your point.

You fucking assholes, this was just some dumb-ass kid who liked explosives and who got depressed. I know you want badly to turn him into Johnny Jihad in order to divert everyone's attention from how badly Bush has been fucking things up lately, but it ain't gonna happen.

I live 15 miles from OU's stadium and, unfortunately, have numerous freinds that are OU junkies. (Sorry had to throw that in. GO Cowboys!)

Anyway, several of these people were at the game. One, who is active military and served in the first Gulf War, "knew" it was a bomb immediately. He stated this was a large explosion that shook the stadium. (I don't know how you explain the lack of damage at the detonation site, unless everything was designed to go outward upon detonation.)

I think you have to give some thought as to whether or not the authorities are withholding the extent of this guy's bomb material. (see reaganite's post)
From some law enforcement officers I know---"they (authorities that are handling this) are being extremely tight-lipped about this." What does that mean.......beats me but they thought it was a bit odd/extreme.

FACT: Most of the TV news station reported that the idiot blew himself up and then the bomb squad detonated his backpack.
SPECULATION: This would seem to point to it being a vest or belt bomb.
SPECULATION???: The media also reported that the backpack did not contain explosive devices. FACT: The bomb squad detonated numerous items removed from the idiot's apartment.

Was he a jihadist? Beats me and we may never really know, unless law enforcement can prove a link to an individual or group that would then force the release of additional information.

Let me start by saying that I am an alumnus of the Oklahoma Chapter of Triangle Fraternity, and thus Joe was my Brother.

The odds of Joe being a Jihadi approach zero, from everything I know or can gather. The odds of this rumor being as reliable as Soledad O'Brien's reporting approach unity.

This was tragic, but it doesn't appear to have been an attempt to kill others. You guys are starting to sound like DU (as are the LGF readers), and that's pretty scary. So go on with your conspiracy theories, I guess, but you might reflect on one thing: this could have been your kid.

If your kid was smart enough to be an engineer and bad enough off emotionally to kill himself. (Which, by the way, is not nearly uncommon enough among engineering students.)

So, you're saying the Northeast Intelligence Network is not reliable but WorldNetDaily is???

You guys are a blast. Never had so much fun.

I live 5 miles from the stadium. I am a graduate of the engineering college. I heard the blast Saturday from my house. An being a frat boy doesn't mean crap (other than he probably liked to drink green beer).

Was he a dumbass kid? Yes.
Did he have issues? Most definitely.
Did he commit suicide? Yes.

Did he room with Pakistani students. Reportedly (who are apparently still at large).
Did he have jihad material? Reportedly.
Did he attempt to purchase a large quantity of ammonium nitrate just two days before? Yes, as reported today.
Did he plan to take others with him. Quite probably.

Which sounds more feasible?

Boren's fairy tale that the kid wanted a serene and secluded place to blow himself up and chose the campus bus stop, even though he lived a half a block away from the best spots on campus for that: the Duck Pond?

OR that he positioned himself between the stadium and Campus Corner, where hundreds of fans would soon be streaming past to get food and drinks at halftime. Planning to follow the throng to a crowded establishment to blow himself up, he decided to make one last check of his explosives and blew himself up.

Before April 19th, I'd believe Boren. Post 9-11, I say better safe than sorry. We just can't afford to give him the benefit of the doubt.

What Seagoon wrote:

"... he positioned himself between the stadium and Campus Corner, where hundreds of fans would soon be streaming past to get food and drinks at halftime. Planning to follow the throng to a crowded establishment to blow himself up, he decided to make one last check of his explosives and blew himself up."

"Before April 19th, I'd believe Boren. Post 9-11, I say better safe than sorry. We just can't afford to give him the benefit of the doubt."

-------------------------

We have as a social group, however loosely organized, in the U.S. now come full circle where we refuse to recognize bad intentions and criminal acts out of irreverant disregard for common sense. It's probably the group personality characteristic that is best and most easily exploitable about the U.S. by anyone with bad intentions against us, and although this "kid" may just have been, yes, obviously, suicidal does not thereby render him without other irrational sympathies and desires for damaging dogma.

I suspect that damaging dogma finds a home among just these conditions, which is why, throughout time, adolescence is found to be a welcoming and nurturing home to most any and all damaging ideologies.

It's like wondering why bacteria grow in damp conditions. Because that's where they grow best and so they do.

Or why people hunt ducks in Minnesota. Because that's where the ducks are.

This now dead guy had roommates and literature affiliated with, from and by a problematic philosophical and religious ideology, this now dead guy attended a mosque earlier in the day prior to his bomb experience, and, had the guy just wanted a private place in which to take his life, he'd certainly not have gone or been going toward a stadium with hundreds of thousands of his peers inside, NOR used all that glaring, blaring, and quite obvious fire power to do so.

I think the most likely explanation here is that he intended to harm others and was caught on his way by some detail that inconvenienced him, and sat to adjust that detail and the deadly explosion occured. But it seems he was in transit, is the point, and that indicates other intentions other than some "quiet suicidal moment."

Which was not at all quiet, nor private, nor retiring, but huge, explosive and public. I'd say it's reasonable to conclude that he had a higher degree of egoism than most (Rhodes Scholar, etc., someone used to excelling) and his personality, although obviously troubled, doesn't indicate someone who would limit any violence to something private, otherwise out of public discussion, but quite the contrary, just as it now is.

His failure -- within this context (not mine) -- was surely his brief set upon the bench and the unexpected, premature explosion that killed him and only him and not others, given that he probably anticipated a larger fatal conclusion.

My best guess, and Seagoon has it right. It's wrong, however, to dismiss the guy's probable bad intentions upon a greater number of people and about why (he'd have to have some grander, bigger ideals upon which to base his explosive end, not something as 'ordinary' and simple as he was a depressed Rhodes Scholar) just because there is cyncism about the issue of terrorism.

While the FBI and our national intelligence may and probably is limiting the use of that word ("terrorism") out of political sensitivities, it's an error to minimize the guy's act and what his influences were. Who knows, the influences just may have encouraged him of his 'failures' by way of not encouraging him as successful, a young, bright American kid who wasn't prevented from assuming a wrong impression about himself.

If this guy was just trying to kill himself, why'd he do it near buses that would soon be thronged with people leaving the game? In my (limited) experience with college games, there would have been hundreds of people packed in around those buses once the game let out.

Or were they reserved for a team?

The life of University President Dave Boren, along with every dean or president of every college and univertisy around the world, just got really ugly. (okay, I'm not as elloquent as -S-)

I understand the position of Dave. He is screwed. What's he gonna do? Is he going to announce that there is a terrorist cell running around the streets of Norman (all but one are unidentified and still at large) and that he has no plan to police & protect 84,000 football fans plus another 5,000 students (all with backpacks) who need to walk to libraries and labs around campus every football Saturday? Is he going to search every student entering every building and search every backback? Is he going to build a wall around the campus, and only allow entry at specific gates that have x-ray and bomb detection equipment? He is screwed.

Every university and college in America has just become a microcosm of the United States. A porous border with no realistic way to protect anybody, anywhere, at anytime.

Dave can't protect 84,000 football fans on their way to and from the football stadium any more than W will be able to protect the millions of shoppers all across America each rushing to their local mall to do their Christmas shopping every day later this year.

Unfortunately, Dave can't pretend he's doing something by invading the local mosque like W invaded Iraq. What he CAN do is to alert the public that they need to be on their guard whenever they are out in public in large numbers. He can't do that by repeatedly saying this was just one messed up yound man with no bad intentions. Give the public all the information they need to make educated decisions about their own safety at large gatherings such as football games.

Although, locking up all the frat boys in Guantanamo WOULD be a good place to start. :)

Joel Heinrichs supposedly took off a year from school. WHERE DID HE GO?

Something else that nobody has pointed out so far is the extremely public nature of this. If he had been closer to the stadium, close enough to have affected the structure in any way, this would have been on national television. The OU/KSU game was televised on Fox Sports that night. I was glued to it due to my love for Kansas State (BTW Kevin, PLEASE fix the typo in the first sentence of your post. OU/Kansas State). Now, if he had been in the stadium or in the concourse, that could have caused enough damage or panic to have been a national event. As it is, it seems to be a regional event at best. I heard on the radio yesterday that the rumor going around Norman was that the guy tried getting into the stadium twice, but since he wouldn't let security inspect his bag he was turned away. Supposedly he was trying to wrap the explosives around himself to get them past security when the thing went off, spraying him all over the buses.

I'm not trying to press any more tinfoil on to this thing, but I don't think we are being told the WHOLE truth here.

Everyone is acting like he put a crater in the ground in Norman. Looking at the pictures, the grass surrounding the area he was sitting was not even damaged - nor was the pole two feet away. So, the explosive device wasn't that large. The most serious damage other than the bench he sat on was a few nearby knocked out windows from the concussion.

As of now, the FBI can find no link between Hinrichs and any terror group, and they haven't found any reason to suspect anything other than dramatic suicide.

The naivity is thick around here. It could not be more simple: Someone killed themself with a bomb near a packed stadium. If you believe that is a coincidence, then go ba