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Nick Berg: Who's to blame?

(Author's note: the following piece is being written while extremely angry, and I am already planning on using some rather strong language, both profane and racially insensitive. I'm not apologizing for it now, will not later, but if Kevin chooses to delete it, that's his call and I won't protest.)

Update: I'm closing comments on this thread. It's degenerated into pointless profanities and juvenile rants for attention. If Kevin, Paul, or any of the other posters disagree, feel free to reopen it or mail me and I will.

I first started becoming aware of politics and current affairs in the late 70's and early 80's. I was outraged by Iran's seizure of our embassy, and strongly influenced by New Hampshire's far-right-wing newspaper (we have exactly one statewide newspaper and exactly one network TV station, both very conservative), so I grew up pretty conservative. I didn't even meet an openly gay person until I got to college, in 1986.

One of the bigger issues of that time was South Africa. The apartheid government was universally despised, of course. The main difference between the liberals and the conservatives was that the liberals were pushing for a complete boycott on the nation and an immediate change of government, while conservatives were calling for 'constructive engagement' and a gradual transition to a more democratic government.

I was on the conservative side on that issue. I was concerned that after years of oppression the black majority, if suddenly given power, would rise up and retaliate against the white minority. I had visions of brutal oppression and slaughter. I also didn't want to see an embargo against South Africa. I figured that if we completely cut off the South African government, we'd be throwing away any influence we might have with them.

I was wrong. As painful as it was to admit, the liberals were right on South Africa. The apartheid government was wrong, and needed to change. It needed to change completely, and it did - eventually, and after the US divested.

Today after posting the Berg video, Kevin told those of us he's granted guest privileges to feel free to post to this site. I had three ready to go, but after seeing the video, I've decided to hold those off until the weekend. I'm in exactly the wrong mood to discuss lighter matters right now.

Once I got home from work, I started surfing around to see the reactions around the 'net. On the liberal side, I saw a lot of blame being put on the Bush administration for Berg's death. They said that Berg's killing was a predictable reaction to the Abu Ghraib prison abuses, as the killers proclaimed in the video. It was Bush's fault for the Abu Ghraib prison abuses, and Berg's death is entirely on his hands.

BULLSHIT. BULL FUCKING SHIT.

The attitude behind this belief isn't liberalism, it isn't partisanship, it isn't even knee-jerk Bush-hating. To blame anyone besides the people who kidnapped Berg and killed him is racism. Racism, plain and simple - just like my attitudes towards South Africa was.

David Gerrold, spent most of his classic book "A Matter For Men" developing a political thesis (disguised as a heavy science fiction story) that concluded with one simple definition. "Freedom is the right to be held responsible for one's actions." A stunningly simple and brilliant conclusion.

George Bush didn't kidnap Nick Berg. The morons from Abu Ghraib didn't kill him. Al Qaeda did that, and bragged of it. They chose to do that, and therefore the responsibility for his death rests surely on their shoulders. To try to excuse them, to pass on the burden for their actions is racist. It's saying the poor little darkies can't be expected to do any better.

It's the same thing in Israel. Palestinian terrorists are excused as "doing the only thing they can to resist the brutal occupation, and it's Israel's fault for causing the climate of oppression." That's racist bullshit, too. Why is it OK to blame the Israelis for both their misdeeds and those of the Palestinians? It's because the Jews are better than the Palestinians, and they have the White Man's Burden to make things right while the dumb sand niggers can't be expected to know or do any better.

The people who killed Nick Berg were perfectly free to not do so. They willingly chose to kidnap and brutally kill - on camera - someone who had absolutely no connection to their stated motive (which was a crock of shit, anyway - this was simply a re-run of the Daniel Pearl murder, with freshened dialogue). This was about them trying to show they still have power. This was the Islamist version of the insecure man buying the big sports car to compensate for insecurities in other areas. And it's all the reaffirmation we should need to continue this War on Terror (or, as it's less politely but more accurately called by some, War on Islamism) and win it - because there is no peaceful settlement possible.


(Afterword: some people might object to my use of "Islamist" and "Islamism" in the last paragraph. There is a difference between Islam - the faith - and Islamism - the radical form of the faith. I'm painting with some broad brushes here, but not that broad.)


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Comments (48)

The brush is <a href="http:... (Below threshold)

The brush is broader than most people think.

I am not ashamed to admit t... (Below threshold)

I am not ashamed to admit that I can no longer make the distinction you have made in the afterword, Jay Tea. Time and again radical moslem after radical moslem perform grave misdeeds against us. Where is the reformation that comes with the realization that a religion's leaders and its highjackers are corrupt? Where is the sundering from within?

The silence is defeaning, and this, this is complicity.

<a href="http://home.comcas... (Below threshold)

http://home.comcast.net/~incubus52/lestweforget.html

Not all pot smoking, beer swilling, lazy hippys forget, or want to live under Muslim law.

Sand niggers? WHy am I not... (Below threshold)

Sand niggers? WHy am I not surprised to hear that phrase from somebody who had such a fucked up view of apartheid? Too bad they didn't cut your head off too.

Yesterday, I read a stateme... (Below threshold)
Fritz:

Yesterday, I read a statement by Laura Bush that struck me as being extremely patronizing toward the Iraqi people. In defense of the prisoner abuse, she described all of the "wonderful" things that we have done for the Iraqi people -- like giving them electricity and running water and even building a hospital.

As an American, I'm proud that we're there to save these people from a life of living in tents and using stone tools. Aren't you?

Apparently Michael missed t... (Below threshold)
Jay Tea:

Apparently Michael missed the point of my piece. It's the attitudes of those who excuse the conduct of the Palestinian terrorists, Al Qaeda, and their ilk that I was paraphrasing in the "sand niggers" remark. I don't think of them that way -- that's why I refuse to excuse what they do. It's those who are so eager to blame everyone else BUT the perpetrators of atrocities that have the condescending, racist attitude.

J.

Jay - good post, and I love... (Below threshold)

Jay - good post, and I loved the definition of freedom.

Also, I never thought of it as implicit racism before, but... you're right.

“Freedom is the righ... (Below threshold)
colby:


“Freedom is the right to be held responsible for one’s actions.” An empty statement to be sure, however, as used by you, it's astonishing to see you ignore the actions of the U.S. leading to this situation. We can never be perfect, but to white wash this by claiming that we are in no way responsible because we somehow could not have predicted the outcome is a sad commentary on the planning abilities and the true interests of those currently in control of the executive branch.

The only settlement possible is Peace, otherwise war will be perpetual.

"We are at war. We have always been at war." 1984, George Orwell.

(Suffering severe computer ... (Below threshold)
Jay Tea:

(Suffering severe computer problems)

Michael, I've had the chance to re-read your comments. I even started to construct some rather cogent and pointed responses, becuase I enjoy a good argument, then I read it one last time.

"Too bad they didn't cut your head off too."

Michael, you're not worth even a casual cussing out. All I can feel is an overwhelming sense of pity. As I posted earlier, I really have no life, but you give me hope. At least I can justify the oxygen I consume and I'm not a pathetic, hateful waste of skin.

J.

(Still suffering computer i... (Below threshold)
Jay Tea:

(Still suffering computer issues)

Colby, you fit the classic definition of "fiddling while Rome burns." There is an immediate crisis going on, but you want to spend God knows how much time contemplating your navel and trying to find "root causes" and "the real reasons behind" them instead of actually DEALING with the messes. Tell me, Colby, just how many more people will die while you try to figure out just how much of the blame gets apportioned where?

Regardless of the root causes, Colby, they CHOSE to kidnap and kill Nick Berg. I believe they should be held accountable for that act. If you think that more blame should be apportioned to others than those who planned and carried out the murder, you got worse problems than my computer has.

J.

Turning off your reasoning ... (Below threshold)
colby:

Turning off your reasoning centers while "DEALING with the messes" is only going to lead to more death.

You tell me Jay, how much blood will fly as we "deal" with what's right infront of us rather than trying to examine it and decide a better course? By your logic, had you come out of your mother with a small wound on your foot, the doctor should have dealt with that first rather than looking you over to see that the cord was wrapped around your neck and cutting off oxygen to your brain, resulting in limiting your amazing logical powers.

I wasn't placing blame, I was pointing out that ignoring our mistakes will only lead to many more of them. I never said the perpetrators should not be punished, I pointed out that the list of perpetrators does not only include those on the video.

I hope the cord from your computer is what's wrapped around your neck now and cutting off the oxygen.

i was sek when i sow that v... (Below threshold)
yousef:

i was sek when i sow that video of killing an amarican inesent man i am an arabic i ma a muslem but i never heard in our holly koran a ward to kill.
these pepole are not a muslems they are kind of shit olso it hearts me when i sow the video of the prisenors of abu ghareb how the amarican soldiers tract them . the problem is meny pepole heat amaricans in our region becouse of the support for the israelians aginst the insent civilians pepole in west bank . thanks my rigards

yousef from kuwait

That should have read: "I h... (Below threshold)
colby:

That should have read: "I hope the cord from your computer isn't what's wrapped around your neck now, cutting off the oxygen."

We don't even know each other man. What amazing prognostication powers do you think you have based on one reply?

I will end with words from Army Col. Paul Hughes, last year's first director of strategic planning for the U.S. occupation authority in Baghdad:

"I lost my brother in Vietnam," added Hughes, a veteran Army strategist who is involved in formulating Iraq policy. "I promised myself, when I came on active duty, that I would do everything in my power to prevent that [sort of strategic loss] from happening again. Here I am, 30 years later, thinking we will win every fight and lose the war, because we don't understand the war we're in."

I think the guys who decape... (Below threshold)
Giuseppe:

I think the guys who decapetated Nick are all bunch of basement-pussy's. They won't show themselves dressed like that in the streets of Baghdad because they know they will be shot! Pussy's!!!
Nick rest in peace

"I was outraged by Iran’s s... (Below threshold)

"I was outraged by Iran’s seizure of our embassy"
I was wonderng if you know why they did it.

If we ignore context then that means we bombed and killed tens of thousands of Iraqs even though we were free not to, correct?

AS for as Israel amd Palestine, it does matter who if the one that created the problem and continues to grab more land and violate International law. Why is Israel breaking International Law on a continuing basis (and getting away with it, I have never seen the meid areport the fact that Israel's "settlers" are in fact illegal.

hi therejust take al... (Below threshold)
yousef:

hi there
just take alook of this video thin you can think how
is the war is terrible .


http://video.ndr.de/ramgen/video/vs/20040226_201503_tv_panorama_2020_schuesse.rm

J, you are ABSOLUTELY right... (Below threshold)
Nicole:

J, you are ABSOLUTELY right. I am a South African. A White Afrikaner South African and its true what you are saying. If the world had not turned their backs on us, our country would be nowhere near the wonderful place it is today - then again, my family wouldn't have lost their business and we would not have lost our home. Bottom line is - it forced our leadership to become ACCOUNTABLE (not just responsible) Evil people are just that - EVIL! There is no way that any accountability for Berg's beheading should be placed on the Americans. That's absurd - we may as blame every rape victim for being raped as well.

I am very saddened by what ... (Below threshold)
MRA:

I am very saddened by what I saw. That video of poor Nick Berg's murder reflects the savagery of Islamic extremists and their total inhumanity for posting it for the world to witness. I nearly passed out from the ugliness. It's evil and harmful.

Many of us can't help but see a stain on each person of Islam faith, whether we want to or not, for a long time. I can no longer disassociate the extremists from the others of Islam faith. There's no point in being fair and nonprejudiced now.

I was against the war before, but I finally know that before any reconstruction of Iraq can proceed, we need to eliminate the enemies. It's as simple as that. We can't have any more innocent people die for wanting to help rebuild the country.

alright. all of you are jus... (Below threshold)
dave:

alright. all of you are just quarrelling amongst yourselves about a subject that doesn't really matter. What the fact of the matter is, that no one wants to come to terms with is: who cares? I don't. I've never even heard of Nick Berg before. He's just some guy who decided to join the armed forces (created for the purpose of killing others, and it's a double-edged sword people) and he got killed. Serves him right. What goes around, comes around. If he wanted to kill them, why can't they kill him? because he's american? fuck that. that's just an excuse to get angry. It all boils down to the fact that this "event" didn't affect our lives at all, and there's no reason we need to get up in arms about it, you people just like to rally behind causes to give yourselves a sense of purpose. Don't get me wrong, I'm not glad that he died, but I just couldn't care less. I just know I'm not going to get my head chopped off because I'm not going to do anything stupid like join the armed forces.

Uuuummm, Dave, ya asshole?<... (Below threshold)

Uuuummm, Dave, ya asshole?

Nick Berg wasn't in the military and you're a wuss.

Who's responsible for Nick ... (Below threshold)
Don:

Who's responsible for Nick Berg's death? Watch the Video! The one's that killed him are responsible. Not the President, although now I understand Nick's own father is blaming Bush and Cheney if that aint a crock of shit. Nick is somewhat responsible himself, he new the danger, he went over there. I spent a career in the Army and served in the Gulf War, I had 18 years in when that started. You bet I didnt want to go but in the back of my mind I knew I would never get away with 20 years without something happening and I new what could happen, thankfully nothing did, but it was my job, the one I chose to do for 20 years. He new what he was getting into, I hope he knew, and if he didnt the his father better blame himself instead of point his fucking finger at the President. As for the retaliation theory for Abu Ghraib, Why Nick Berg? Who the fuck is Nick Berg? He wasn't even military! Why didn't those Al Qaeda Henchmen grab a soldier instead of a civilian that weighed a buck and a half. And why arent they men enough to do these things without hoods. Even that punkass little Bitch English wasn't so afaid that she put on a hood, (just fugly and dirt dumb). Bottom line the civilians go there for the money (it aint to shabby) they take their chances if it works out great, if it don't that's a shame but they knew the risk so they, their families and the bleeding heart liberals should keep their fucking mouths shut. Just like they tell ya "IF YA CAN'T RUN WIT THE BIG DOGS KEEP YUR ASS ON THE PORCH"

I have not yet watched the ... (Below threshold)
Cristal Shanda Lear:

I have not yet watched the video. I am afraid to. I may be a coward, but so be it. Maybe I will in the morning. But I doubt it. Maybe I will only listen to it. That should be enough to turn my already disturbed dreams into full blown nightmares.

I have never wanted this war. I never wanted our troops to leave. I never wanted President Bush to defy the UN, and lie to the American people about the reasons for bombing Iraq in the first place. I have never believed that this war was going to work.

I am ashamed for thinking this way, because I feel that as an American, I'm supposed to believe in the red, white & blue; believe that America will always stand up for what is right and give our best to the world.

Then again, I live life as a black female in this country, and my experience tells me that for all of the patriotic bullshit, there is another truth.

Nick Berg is dead at the hands of the enemy but my people have been slaughtered and enslaved in their own "homeland". Yet this is the country I am expected to believe can spread justice and democracy to the rest of the world? I'm supposed to believe that our country is not responsible for Nick Berg's death? I'm supposed to believe that his death and thousands of other lives of all nationalities could not have been spared if this war had not been started?

We only have two choices now and neither of them will be easy. Finish what we've started and win, or tuck our tails between our legs, run home, and be a sitting target for every terrorist group who now realizes America is run by a bunch of speak loudly, carry no stick cowards?

Our path is set. We have no choice now but to fight it out. And we must win, or evil wins. But oh, the price. The terrible, terrible price we will pay before it is all said and done.

Already so many lost. And the innocent suffer. And gas is over $2 a gallon (that's what counts the most though, right?).

I wish I were wiser, or smarter, or more knowledgeable. I can't debate the issues of politics or history or military strength and strategy.

I wish I knew more to back up my feeling that this time, this is wrong and evil, what we have done. I only hope we finish what we have begun, one way or another.

I live in NYC As a New York... (Below threshold)
majorllin:

I live in NYC As a New Yorker I saw first hand what a fanatic can do. I belive that this was murder plain and simple. I do not know what Mr. Berg was into but it does seem from what little reading I read that their is more than meets the eye. Every time I go to NYC I pass a creater and I become angry I look at this video I say to my self Their is no reasoning with people like this.
I know we have to be there I know their will be more death. All I think that someday one of these fanitical muther fuckers will do something
that our goverment can not turn its back on and that is when the shit will hit the fan. Religion does not have any place in a goverment. If this is retalation for the abuse of prisoners How can u compare Murder to to abuse My condolence to the Burg family

Dave, You don't ... (Below threshold)
Michael C:

Dave,

You don't care? Doesn't affect you at all? Well then, who are you going to call when the knife is at your throat? Don't worry, you will probably never have to answer that question. Better men than you will keep you safe in your little bubble of ignorance. Just don't expect us to give you any respect.

"Afterword: some people mig... (Below threshold)
Peter:

"Afterword: some people might object to my use of “Islamist” and “Islamism” in the last paragraph.""

How about 'sand niggers', you ignorant bigot.

How can anyone feel sorry f... (Below threshold)
Eugene:

How can anyone feel sorry for Berg? He was one of them.His father says "I am sure that he only saw good in them(captors) until the last seconds of his life.They did not know what they were doing.They killed their best friend" I say Rot in Hell Nick!

i really dont think that pe... (Below threshold)
Lisseth:

i really dont think that people that dont need to be in iraq should be permitted to do so, Nick Berg, really wasn't a person that deserved this. The U.S. also TRIED to end terrorism in that country and really is making it worse, i say we step back, and not have anymore innocent people dying. It hurts to read the news and hear that a new person has died, and the thought of this will only make the war last even longer.

most iraqi people are not b... (Below threshold)
google:

most iraqi people are not bad, what is with you fucking americans, you only believe what the news says. fuck.
-nick berg did not deserve to die, the army people that fucked with the prisioners should be looked up like that.

fuck you all

Google, right, now a search... (Below threshold)
Don:

Google, right, now a search engine has an opnion!!!!! Your as bad as the scarved/hooded chickenshit sandniggers that killed the unfortunate bastard, leave your name you chicken shit fucking terrorist loving antia-merican cunt...

There was a time when, even... (Below threshold)
John:

There was a time when, even though I thought their methods were counterproductive, I had a certain empathy for islamic terrorists and the frustration they felt with American interference in their world (starting with the UN resolution which created a zionist state, Isreal).

I didn't necessarily agree with their position and considered it unreasonable that they were unwilling to allow a jewish state.

But now, with the Nick Berg beheading video. I see their true colors clearly. They are cowards of ultimate magnitude. I don't even have words to convey the unbelievable cowardice shown in this video.

Mr. Berg was an innocent. He was there to help rebuild. He had no part in the prior destruction other than being from the country that perpatrated it.

It took five armed men who were to afraid to show their faces to hold down and kill one man who was bound and innocent of any crime. If that's not cowardice, I don't know what is.

Those who perpetrated this atrocity, as well as those who fail to condemn it, are dogs. Unworthy, even to be beaten by the sole of my shoe. There is more courage in the feces I flush down the toilet than all of these men together will ever have.

I am disgusted to even have similar features such as arms, legs, a face, and fingers. If these men and those who fail to condemn their actions, call themselves human, or sons/daughters of man, god weeps.

I can tell you that most Ar... (Below threshold)
Dante:

I can tell you that most Arabic nations are squalor ridden shitholes with exception to Maylaysia (and they are Asians) which is probably why they live well. Why is it that you need a guy like Sadaam to pacify Iraq? Because he's one of the boys there. Iraq needs civilization more than a leader. That said, its not our job to help them live better. F them! Let's leave them to their squalor. Their lives are not about to change for the better. I say F the Mideast. F the Zionists who pulled us into this shit. And most of all, F Bush and Rumsfeld for getting us wrapped up in this bullshit. Time to remove them from office. These people are incapable of living in peace. If we were not there, they'd turn on each other.

Nick Berg was beheaded and ... (Below threshold)
andyf:

Nick Berg was beheaded and captured on video. This video has spread across the internet. A lot of people are disgusted and outraged by this.

Are they also disgusted and outraged by the pictures of iraqi civilians who have lost either limbs, or their own lives, during the 'liberation' of iraq ?

I would like to say that I’... (Below threshold)
senafr:

I would like to say that I’m French but I 'm sad about the video. I think of his parents,
I them transmit my condolences. :\
It’s the worst thing that i have never seen.

If not, Avoid thinking that French people are against USA.
We are only against the bush administration.
After one year of war it seems that we were right.

There is no WDM and the things are worse.
Nothing has been solved.
But thanks to your stupid president all is more badly in the Middle-East.
In addition the terrorists have more excuse to make their offences.
Congratulation Mr bush : you have won :\

Finally, it is not because we are friendly that it is necessary to agree always.
chirac is not like Blair . We had said to you to pay attention but for you we were cowards in your eyes.
In this moment, the families of the dead soldiers must think like us.
After all, we are a free country also we can have a different idea and not to pass for cowards.

In the future, do not forget to listen to the advices of an old friend.

I hope that Kerry will win the elections because America deserves better than bush that is worst president than the United States never had.

ps : I hope that we will find the culprit of this odious act and that they will be punishes

Sorry for my English :)

Yeah, when they begin to us... (Below threshold)
2nd2none:

Yeah, when they begin to use their taxi's and limo's as messenger's of death, you guy's will be screaming for Bush to do something about it...Oh yeah, he already is doing something about it...

I am sickened by the coward... (Below threshold)
fire_fly_:

I am sickened by the cowardice of the 5 men that hid their faces while they held down 1 man and sawed his head off. I hope we find them and tear off their f-ing hoods and let them look death in the face.
As far as you liberals out there..quit yer whining....its all bullshit and you know it. Bush is doing what Clinton did NOT! Remember..the terrorists were plotting long before Bush took office...their 9/11 deal took years....Bush was the one that had to clean up the mess that Clinton didnt have time for since he was so busy literally f-ing off at work.
We are there now and we need to show them that if they do bad thigns to us, we will be an enemy to fear. Everyone is outraged over abuses to Iraqi prisoners...HELLO...these prisoners are killing our guys ...these prisoners would cut our throats in a heartbeat...but hey..if that isnt enough for you liberals..think on this...they hate us...but they still want our money???? Yeah right..
Im sick of it..Im tried of all you fing liberals throwing the US on the chopping block. What the hell kind of peopel are you. Look up the definition of a patriot. You liberal idiots dont have a clue whats in the best interest of our country.
My sympathies to the Berg family. I can well imagine the shock and pain. But blaming Bush and Rummy....not good... Perhaps instead of blaming Bush, you should not have hired an attorney to demand his release.. prehaps you should begin to relaize that your son was a man that made his own choices despite good advice from many. Perhpas you should not announce that your son liked his terrorist and saw the best in them...they killed your son and you say he saw the best in them but blame Bush? I think maybe I will overlook that and call it a grieving father trying to make sense out of it...becasue if you dont have hatred for his killers but you do for the people of your own government that are fighting against this type of action..then maybe there is more the this story then meets the eye. Hate the Islamic outlaw that even the Arabic world is calling a bad guy. Dont hate the US. We ARE The good guys here..

I viewed the video Youseff ... (Below threshold)
Dontgiveafuk:

I viewed the video Youseff provided to the commentary in response to the Berg video. The video displays 2 incidents wherein our soldiers kill a few terrorists. His complaint is that because 2 of the terrorists were wounded, they should not have shot a second time to ensure the terrorists death. KISS MY ASS!! War is KILL or be KILLED. This war in particular has not been in accordance with the Geneva Convention with regard to the enemy at any time whatsoever. You know that saying "nice guys finish last"? Well sometimes you have to wear the bad-ass hat. Kill em all and ask questions later. We worked valiantly to be the BEST. The envy of the world for our status is disgusting. Get over it!! You suck and we dont!! To be blunt. In essence, the exchange of videos with Youseff is no comparison. Youseff, try another angle pal. By the way, Youseff do you ever ask yourself why you hate the Israelis so much? Is this a racial issue with your people or just good 'ol anti-semiticism? or is it that the arabs cannot GET OVER the biblical events. HELLO!!!!!! Its 2004, get OVER it. Remember Anwar Sadat??? He was an example you should follow and who killed him? A peace loving man, WHO KILLED HIM?? THATS RIGHT YOUR PEOPLE KILLED ONE OF THEIR OWN. The middle east is full of barbaric, archaic, bull headed, GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE SAND, imbeciles. Your thought process is of no consequence since your level of ignorance places you lowest on the totem pole.

This is what is truly killi... (Below threshold)
Craven:

This is what is truly killing humanity. This is supposed to be a board discussing who you think is to blame for the execution, but instead you make it a personal vendetta against one another.

To those of you who actually have civilized comments, I commend you for ignoring the heathons.

Google, you are a coward. You just like to flame people for their opinions. Not all Iraqi's are bad, but some are. But of course, your petty little mind cannot comprehend that. Keep insulting America, chickenshit. Oops, I guess I caught the bug from you......fucker.

Eugene, if Nick Berg is in fact "Rotting in Hell", you'll be right there with him.

Dave, I'm sincerely glad you arent joining the armed forces. We dont need you, we dont want you. Your too stupid to be in the military.

I'm not perfect either. We all have our views, but pointless bashing like this will do nothing. Nick Berg was human, and anyone who said he deserved this is not. Bush may be responsible in some small minute way, but I in no way blame him for Nick Bergs death. That was the terrrorists. Humanity is crashing down all around us. I just hope I'm dead before it gets to its worst. But believe me, this is just the beginning.

Someone said:"I ha... (Below threshold)
Ben:

Someone said:

"I have never wanted this war. I never wanted our troops to leave. I never wanted President Bush to defy the UN, and lie to the American people about the reasons for bombing Iraq in the first place. I have never believed that this war was going to work.

I am ashamed for thinking this way, because I feel that as an American, I'm supposed to believe in the red, white & blue; believe that America will always stand up for what is right and give our best to the world."

We can't blame Israel or the Palestinians. That is a problem that isn't going to stop until the world ends.

We can't blame Bush or those around him. I would be more angry with him if he continued the ignoring of issues like the USS Cole bombing, US Embassy bombings and 9/11.

Whatever you want to call it - this was far beyond a "Police action" way back in 2001.

Don't pretend that President Bush lied about anything. Even President Clenton and his staff were talking about Iraq WMD's 8 - 12 years ago.

This isn't "America's" fault. We really are not the "Great Satan" that some proclaim. We are not perfect by a long shot but ... If you know of a better place you might consider leaving... Even the famous alec baldwin who said he would "leave the country if Bush was elected" is still here!
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/leave.htm

It is actually true what was stated about people from all over the world trying to get into our country to live temporary or permanently. Can you believe our country is considering stopping the lottery!! Not your silly money lotteries but the many lotteries held in other countries where the winner gets a green card to live in this country!!

We also have the right to pick our friends. Israel happens to be one of them. That's not due to America Government. That's due to American people. No party will will suggest cutting ties. They aren't perfect either but they are among our friends. End of that discussion.

Just like when a girl gets threatened by some guy and the police won't do anthing until they have absolute proof!!?? which doesn't come until she is attacked again or is killed... The country should wait for more "proof" also? Individuals must turn the other cheek. Not Governments. Our Government must work to:
1. form a more perfect union
2. establish justice
3. insure domestic tranquility
4. provide for the common defense
5. promote the general welfare and
6. secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity

Most societies have "keepers of the law" because they are made up of people just like us and some of those people do wrong just like some do here.
Most societies don't admit their faults like we do here. Most don't publicly "take care" of the issues like we do here. Humans tend to do wrong. It's a pattern and everyone knows it! (though some won't admit it) Nope, can't make the "pay back" excuse. Our government and press is taking care of that out in the open.

I feel for the Berg Family. I lost my father a few months back and I understand their pain now and the pain to come. I don't feel their pain. I cannot imagine how it would feel to more then know my child died but to hear my child scream and not be able to do anything. The family is entitled to their grief and we (YOU) owe it to them to try to understand while they go through this rough time. There is nothing they could do to offend me the rest of this year...

Many Americans have traveled far for many many years to help others. Many have died at the hands of those they endevored to help. From Missionaries traveling to far countries with their families to bring the Gospel of Christ, Medical workers and Members of American support teams to help in tradgedy such as earthquakes, etc.

In 2004 whether Kerry enters or Bush stays... The attacks will continue. If Gore had won the planes still would have destroyed the Twin Towers. These were not Iraqies that went after our troops or even Berg.

These were the same ones that bombed the USS Cole and performed 100 other agressive acts against us. They are not going to quit anytime soon.

I know who I want in the Oval Office next year. I will vote for my choice because it's my duty living in this country! Whoever wins the election will have my prayers for the next four years. I'm not leaving! Someone died so I could vote in the next few elections.

I'm a black American and proud to be both.

Proverbs 16: 4-8
4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
5 Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.
6 By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.
7 When a man's ways please the LORD, he maketh even his enemies to be at peace with him.
8 Better is a little with righteousness than great revenues without right.

We will probably never know... (Below threshold)
nationbuilder:

We will probably never know the truth behind Nick Berg's death. Hell, if his own father has doubts of what happened (and I would like to get his thoughts on this in the bear future), how can we be so sure that he died at the hands of what seems so obvious????
The people in the video do not have mannerisms of Middle Eastern people and..when is the last time you have seen middle eastern people with body profiles like that? These guys look more like couch potatoes than warriors.
Secondly, trained executioners in a terrorist organization would have had his head off in seconds. They don't screw around like some teenager gutting out his first deer.
The rest of you can sitt and slam down your Old Mil or PBR and think what you wish.
I, for one, am not buying into this execution as something that appears to be..(pardon the pun) cut and dried...
Even the cleric El Sader has stated that he thinks this is a fabrication. I know that doesn't mean much to America, but there has to be a reason behind why someone so revered in Iraq would say this.

If you watch the video....p... (Below threshold)
nationbuilder:

If you watch the video....pay attention to the numeric display at the bottom right hand corner.
Did someone just feel like screwing around with the numbers during a beheading????
Hmmmmmmm..Like paul Harcye would say.."Here's a strange."

I saw the video and it was ... (Below threshold)
Chris:

I saw the video and it was very disturbing and my heart goes out to the family and all the families who have lost loved ones. However, I don't and never have agreed with the US going to war. What I don't understand is how we can feel justified going into another man's country and police what they do and how they live yet when they come to our country we call them terrorists? We started looking for Bin Laden after 911, then it was Saddam, then it was weapons of mass destruction, and finally it was to liberate the people. We have opened a Pandora's box and for everyone who is so gung-ho about war and fighting imagine if what is going on over there begins to happen over here because we are fighting a battle that cannot be won. The US will have to remain on Iraq soil from here on out and you can not tear down a belief system that strong and long going without repercussions. We are not God, and it is not our place to dictate the world. Look at our own country, we love war but I know that far to many veterans are homeless in the country they defended. We have drugs still coming in this country at alarming rates. Gun violence, racism, unemployment and poverty. Yet we want to spend billions destroying and rebuilding another country. This country preserved the institution of slavery as long as it could and during and before the civil rights movement people of color were terrorized by white america-the same white america that ran the judicial system and every other faucet of authority. Yet would it have been justifiable for Japan or some other foreign entity to send soldiers here to police our country? How can you hold an entire country accountable for the actions of a few. And how we change a way of thinking that is not only generational but historical-we can't change racist thinking in our own country. Timothy McVeigh the Oklahoma Bomber acted out a terrorist act so lets wage war against his hometown. It does not make since. Bush had a personal vendetta and the blood of our children, mothers, and fathers are being shed to satisfy that vendetta. God bless us all because we are going to need it.

I saw the video and it was ... (Below threshold)
Chris:

I saw the video and it was very disturbing and my heart goes out to the family and all the families who have lost loved ones. However, I don't and never have agreed with the US going to war. What I don't understand is how we can feel justified going into another man's country and police what they do and how they live yet when they come to our country we call them terrorists? We started looking for Bin Laden after 911, then it was Saddam, then it was weapons of mass destruction, and finally it was to liberate the people. We have opened a Pandora's box and for everyone who is so gung-ho about war and fighting imagine if what is going on over there begins to happen over here because we are fighting a battle that cannot be won. The US will have to remain on Iraq soil from here on out and you can not tear down a belief system that strong and long going without repercussions. We are not God, and it is not our place to dictate the world. Look at our own country, we love war but I know that far to many veterans are homeless in the country they defended. We have drugs still coming in this country at alarming rates. Gun violence, racism, unemployment and poverty. Yet we want to spend billions destroying and rebuilding another country. This country preserved the institution of slavery as long as it could and during and before the civil rights movement people of color were terrorized by white america-the same white america that ran the judicial system and every other faucet of authority. Yet would it have been justifiable for Japan or some other foreign entity to send soldiers here to police our country? How can you hold an entire country accountable for the actions of a few. And how we change a way of thinking that is not only generational but historical-we can't change racist thinking in our own country. Timothy McVeigh the Oklahoma Bomber acted out a terrorist act so lets wage war against his hometown. It does not make since. Bush had a personal vendetta and the blood of our children, mothers, and fathers are being shed to satisfy that vendetta. God bless us all because we are going to need it.

Subject: Fw: worst presiden... (Below threshold)
heyWakeUp:

Subject: Fw: worst president?I was unable to edit this. Mark is a preacher Free Methodist Church
I won't say who I'm voting for this election; however, I thought this article could clear up a few misconceptions to level the playing field.
Mark
Politics, politics, politics, it's going to be fun until the election!! I'm not positive these numbers are precise but if I understand correctly, there were 39 combat related killings in Iraq during the month of January..... in the fair city of Detroit there were 35 murders in the month of January. That's one American city folks, about as deadly as the entire war torn country of Iraq.
Worst president in history?
The following appeared in the Durham, NC local paper as a letter to the editor. This puts things in perspective: Liberals claim President Bush shouldn't have started this war. They complain about his prosecution of it. One liberal recently claimed Bush was the worst president in U.S. history. Let's clear up one point: We didn't start the war on terror. Try to remember, it was started by terrorists BEFORE 9/11. Let's look at the "worst" president and mismanagement claims. FDR led us into World War II. Germany never attacked us: Japan did. From 1941-1945, 450,000 lives were lost, an average of 112,500 per year. Truman finished that war and started one in Korea, North Korea never attacked us. From 1950-1953, 55,000 lives were lost, an average of 18,333 per year. John F. Kennedy started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked us. Johnson turned Vietnam into a quagmire. From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year. Clinton went to war in Bosni!
a without UN or French consent, Bosnia never attacked us. He was offered Osama bin Laden's head on a platter three times by Sudan and did nothing. Osama has attacked us on multiple occasions.
In the two years since terrorists attacked us, President Bush has liberated two countries, crushed the Taliban, crippled al-Qaida, put nuclear inspectors in Lybia, Iran and North Korea without firing a shot, and captured a terrorist who slaughtered 300,000 of his own people. We lost 600 soldiers.
Bush did all this abroad while not allowing another terrorist attack at home. Worst president in history? Come on! The Democrats are complaining about how long the war is taking, but... It took less time to take Iraq than it took Janet Reno to take the Branch Davidian compound. That was a 51 day operation. We've been looking for evidence of chemical weapons in Iraq for less time than it took Hillary Clinton to find the Rose Law Firm billing records. It took less time for the 3rd Infantry Division and the Marines to destroy the
Medina Republican Guard than it took Teddy Kennedy to call the police after his Oldsmobile sank at Chappaquiddick.
It took less time to take Iraq than it took to count the votes in Florida!!!!

I saw the video and it was ... (Below threshold)
Freda:

I saw the video and it was very disturbing and my heart goes out to the family and all the families who have lost loved ones. However, I don't and never have agreed with the US going to war. What I don't understand is how we can feel justified going into another groups country, battle on their soil, police what they do and how they live yet when they come to our country we call them terrorists? We started looking for Bin Laden after 911, then it was Saddam, then it was weapons of mass destruction, and finally it was to liberate the people. We have opened a Pandora's box and for everyone who is so gung-ho about war and fighting imagine if what is going on over there begins to happen over here because we are fighting a battle that cannot be won. The US will have to remain on Iraqi soil from here on out and you can not tear down a belief system that strong and long going without repercussions. We are not God, and it is not our place to dictate the world. Look at our own country, we love war but I know that far too many veterans are homeless in the country they defended and loved so dearly. We have drugs still coming in this country at alarming rates, gun violence, racism, unemployment and poverty. Yet we want to spend billions destroying and rebuilding another country. This country preserved the institution of slavery as long as it could and during and before the civil rights movement people of color were terrorized by members of white america-the same members that ran the judicial system and every other faucet of authority. Yet would it have been justifiable for Japan or some other foreign entity to send soldiers here to police our country? How can you hold an entire country accountable for the actions of a few. And how can we change a way of thinking that is not only generational but historical-we can't change racist thinking in our own country. Timothy McVeigh the Oklahoma Bomber acted out a terrorist act so lets wage war against his hometown. It does not make since. Bush had a personal vendetta and the blood of our children, mothers, and fathers are being shed to satisfy that vendetta. The weapons of mass destruction were not found and for a people who are so radical why wouldn't they have used those alleged weapons as soon as they knew there was a threat of US invasion. The US is about making money, if the war is a humanitarian effort, do you honestly think the US would invest all this time and money and lost life just to one day set up democracy and walk away with a clear heart and good conscious. We all know the answer to that and so do the Iraqi people. God bless us all because we are going to need it.

Rwandan President Habyarima... (Below threshold)
HeywKeUp:

Rwandan President Habyarimana and the Burundian President are killed when Habyarimana's plane is shot down near Kigali Airport. Hutu extremists, suspecting that the Rwandan president is finally about to implement the Arusha Peace Accords, are believed to be behind the attack. The killings begin that night.

Over 500,000 killed by several knives or macheattes
in 1994....wonder who was president then?

I AM NOT AMERICAN, I AM FRE... (Below threshold)
Alex:

I AM NOT AMERICAN, I AM FRENCH CANADIAN...

I HATE AMERICA, I HATE AMERICANS ...

THE AMERICAN GOUVERNEMENT KILLED MILLIONS AND MILLIONS PEOPLE ...

IN VIETNAM, I IRAK, I AFGANISTAN, IN AFRICA....

I HAVE BEEN IN MANY COUNTRYS, THE AMERICANS DON'T HAVE A FRIEND IN THIS WORLD, SOME PEOPLE SEEMS TO BE FRIENDLY WHIT YOU BEACAUSE OF YOUR MONEY ...

FUCK AMERICA, FUCK BUSH, FUCK ALL AMERICANS !!

The Terrorist should loose ... (Below threshold)
Mad Hronet:

The Terrorist should loose all there heads the same way Nick Berg did!

Alex, I guess you never got... (Below threshold)
Mad Hornet:

Alex, I guess you never got a good education in Canada/France...You can't spell worth a canadian nickel. Stupid Canuck! Canuck you! Oh that means Canuck YOU! YSFC.........




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