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WIZBANG EXCLUSIVE- Nick Berg gave password to terrorists

This story keeps getting better. A friend called me and told me the AP was going to release a story that Nick Berg was investigated by the FBI 2 years ago because he gave his password for his computer account at his university to terrorist mastermind Zacharias Moussaoui.

This guy was dirty. We has over there trying to help the terrorists and they killed him (See previous Wizbang coverage for the video). Then his old man blames Bush?

It is not on Drudge or google news but you can bank on it. The AP has it and you heard it here first.

UPDATE: The FBI at the time decided he was not working with Al Qeada but he was just not to careful with his password. It seems bizarre - Al Qaeda stole his password 2 years ago and killed him this week but they are not related in some way? .... I got a bridge to sell you if you believe that one.

UPDATE 2: CNN finally has the story an hour or so after Wizbang:

UPDATE 3: philly.com has more below the fold.

UPDATE 4: Berg's Father, "The al-Qaida people are PROBABLY just as bad as they are, but this administration did this."

And some of you DOUBT this guy is a political hack? More below.

UPDATE 2:

Berg's encounter with 'terrorist' revealed

WEST CHESTER, Pennsylvania (CNN) -- When Nicholas Berg took an Oklahoma bus to a remote college campus a few years ago, the American recently beheaded by terrorists allowed a man with terrorist connections to use his laptop computer, according to his father.

Government sources told CNN that the encounter involved an acquaintance of Zacarias Moussaoui -- the only person publicly charged in the United States in connection with the September 11, 2001, terror attacks.

According to Berg, his son was taking a course a few years ago at a remote campus of the University of Oklahoma near an airport. He described how on one particular day, his son met "some terrorist people -- who no one knew were terrorists at the time."

At one point during the bus ride, Berg said, the man sitting next to his son asked if he could use Nick's laptop computer.

"It turned out this guy was a terrorist and that he, you know, used my son's e-mail, amongst many other people's e-mail who he did the same thing to," Berg said.

Government sources said Berg gave the man his password, which was later used by Moussaoui, the sources said.

The sources said the man who used Berg's e-mail knew Moussaoui, now awaiting trial on federal charges that could bring a death sentence. But the sources would not disclose details of how the men were connected. ...

Berg said his son cooperated fully with an FBI investigation into the matter.

"He was happy to cooperate, and that was never an issue," he said. He emphasized that the individual was not a friend of his son's or even an acquaintance -- "just a guy sitting next to him on the bus."

Yeah, I just lent him my laptop, yeah, that's it, that's the ticket.

I think the phrase is, "This raises more questions than it answers."

UPDATE 3: Philly.com has more info that just adds to the mystery. It throws up into the air the junior Berg's intentions. But it proves beyond a doubt his father is a lying political hack.

Some of those details have not been reported before, including:

The FBI apparently conducted a lengthy investigation of Berg in captivity because they were checking out a possible friendship or other tie with an Arab at the University of Oklahoma who was under scrutiny in connection with the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks.

The source said that in addition to his passport, cash and a laptop, Berg had two books when he was arrested in Mosul on March 24 that aroused suspicion: the Koran and a book that authorities somehow interpreted as "anti-Semitic."

Friends say it's unlikely that Berg, a practicing Jew, would have carried an anti-Semitic book but that reading the Koran and other local texts was very much in line with his intellectual curiosity.

Berg stubbornly refused American offers of assistance in getting home - including an offer of free airfare, cash and an American escort. He told authorities before his April 6 release that he was eager to get back to work seeking contracts in Iraq, telling U.S. authorities "he was losing thousands of dollars in jail."

The New York Times is reporting this morning that Berg also sent a lengthy e-mail to his family after he was detained. Among the questions asked, he wrote, were: "Why was I in Iraq? Did I ever make a pipe bomb? Why was I in Iran?"

As Drudge says, Developing....

As I slept, it Developed.

UPDATE 4

Berg's father speaks out

WEST CHESTER - Michael Berg lashed out at President George Bush and his administration during an impromptu briefing outside the family's home on Thursday morning about the murder of his son, Nick Berg, who authorities believe was killed by terrorists.

"Nicholas Berg died for the sins of George Bush and Donald Rumsfeld," Michael Berg said. "The al-Qaida people are probably just as bad as they are, but this administration did this."

The 20-minute briefing took place outside the family's home on the 1200 block of Estate Drive, West Whiteland.

"This is an administration that allows something that they arrogantly called the Patriot Act to strip away America, to make America not the America that I grew up in," Michael Berg continued.

"It was a coup d'etat. At first a bloodless coup d'etat, but, unfortunately, afterward it has become very bloody."[Yes, Georege Bush took over the country by coup -ed]

On the front lawn of the Bergs' home was a blue sign that read: War is not the answer. Michael Berg said he posted the sign, which belonged to an organization called ANSWER, or Act Now to Stop the War and End Racism.

Berg has been a member of the group, he said, since participating in a rally in Washington, D.C., in March 2003. "It is something that I am not ashamed of. I am proud of it."

He continued, "I think stopping the war and ending racism are extremely important things that this world has to do right now. I am proud to be a member of ANSWER and I plan to be at the march on June 5. I know it is considered a radical group," Berg said. "I want to ask: Radical as compared to what? The Bush administration? I'll be radical." Berg also directed a question to the president. "I would like to ask George Bush a question. I would like to ask him if it is true that al-Qaida offered to trade my son's life for the life of another person," Berg said. "And if that is true, I need that information ... and I think the rest of the people of the United States of America need to know what the fate of their sons and daughters might be in the hands of the Bush administration," he said.

Now- Where on earth would I get the idea this guy was a left wing loon stepping on the body of his dead son to make a political point?


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Comments (79)

I heard one of the cable ne... (Below threshold)

I heard one of the cable networks discuss the Nick Berg/Moussaoui connection earlier this morning. Forgive me for forgetting which one, but I think it was MSNBC. They said he was questioned by the FBI two years ago. There was no mention of the computer password angle you revealed but they were speculating about any possible connections with Nick Berg and that terrorist.

Let's get our facts straigh... (Below threshold)
Fritz:

Let's get our facts straight before we start calling a fellow AMERICAN "dirty":

"Sources said that the FBI concluded that Berg had innocently given his e-mail account to someone and it had landed in the hands of other people, including Moussaoui."

"Sources close to the situation told Fox News that they believed the link to be 'coincidental.'"

Seriously, this is very irresponsible and shameful. First, you attack a grieving father -- showing no sympathy or respect. Then, you twist a story that that describes what seems to be nothing more than a weird coincidence into some kind of conspiracy between Berg and Al Qaeda to do what -- have himself decapitated to prove a point?

I've been investigated by the Secret Service because someone stole my ID and tried to get a passport with it. So what? That doesn't mean I'm in league with a possible terrorist.

No disrespect ment here, bu... (Below threshold)
Mike:

No disrespect ment here, but the father, while he is in a very grevious state, instantly came out and blamed Bush for his son's death. Not the terrorists who committed the crime. It would seem Nick Berg was over there on his own free will, knowing the danger. His father is entitled to his opinion and it may change, but by coming out against Bush so soon he has opened himself up to criticism.

Fritz... How many times hav... (Below threshold)
Paul:

Fritz... How many times have you run into Al Qaeda leadership figures?

I've never met one!

This guy's password was transfered to Zacharias Moussaoui and then he was killed by another Al Qaeda leader and you don't smell something fishy?

Fox News is alleging that <... (Below threshold)

Fox News is alleging that NB didn't give ZM the password, but the later "20th hijacker" got his hands on the account.

The Miami Herald says:


A U.S. official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Berg was detained by Iraqi authorities "for his own protection" because his behavior in Mosul seemed unusual for a Westerner. Unlike most Westerners in Iraq, Berg traveled on his own, without his own driver and interpreter.

The official added that Berg, who was Jewish, had in his possession texts that were "anti-Semitic" in tone, the official said without elaborating.

In the e-mail to his parents, Berg guessed the FBI agents in Mosul had questioned him about Iran because he was carrying some literature in Farsi and a book about Iran.

There's definitely more than meets the eye to this one, a lot to sort out. I could think of anything from him being clueless (carrying around a talis and Israeli passport stamps in Iraq!), to him being a terrorist sympathizer who was gullible to think they wanted his support (father's comments, ZM connection, Iranian books), to him trying to do something totally different and these (contradictory) clues being red herrings.

So am I still an asshole?</... (Below threshold)
Paul:

So am I still an asshole?

I thought it was odd that a... (Below threshold)
Jim:

I thought it was odd that an American was wandering around without a job. I assumed I just din't know how it worked over there and that this was commonplace. Is it? I still don't know.

With all due respect, I thi... (Below threshold)

With all due respect, I think what's "dirty" is speculating about the dead like this before all the facts are in.

I think it's fair to wonder... (Below threshold)

I think it's fair to wonder at the coincidental nature of all this. But I think it's premature to declare the guy "dirty."

"So am I still an asshole?"... (Below threshold)

"So am I still an asshole?"

For piling onto a dead man and his grieving family with speculative conspiracy theories? I'm going to assume you're not actually looking for an answer.

Perhaps he was actually decapitated while trying to board one of those black helicopters...

So, you're going with unnam... (Below threshold)

So, you're going with unnamed sources, who claim that a Jew was carrying around an anti-Semitic text (which, according to Berg's friends and family, is highly unlikely), and deciding that somehow Berg was working with terrorists?

That's some leap of faith you folks are making.

And let's not forget, the U.S. official in Iraq would be mighty eager to cover the asses of any U.S. officials who might have delayed Berg from getting out of a war zone that had suddenly become extremely dangerous for Americans. Interesting how suddenly it's becoming Berg's fault that he's dead, instead of, oh, the fault of the terrorists who killed him.

I'll wait for a few more facts to come in before I start declaring Berg an anti-Semite. [rolls eyes]

What Meryl said. This is t... (Below threshold)

What Meryl said. This is the worst of yellow journalism, squared.

(Thanks, Kevin, for your remarks in the post above this one.)

How about this?One... (Below threshold)

How about this?

One of our own got clipped. Thus the blackwash.

An anonymous star at Langley? Or one of the intel agencies.

Paul:You can be ri... (Below threshold)

Paul:

You can be right, and still be an asshole. :)

Just as long as I get my pr... (Below threshold)
Paul:

Just as long as I get my props. LOL

Excuse me? Since when does ... (Below threshold)

Excuse me? Since when does "an acquaintance of Zacarias Moussaoui" translate to "al Qaeda leader"?

It was an encounter with one of the common grunts. I wouldn't be at all surprised if, at some time in my life, I had encountered one of them on a bus somewhere. I know I've encountered at least one online, who used to be a blogger.

PART OF THE GRIEVING PROCES... (Below threshold)
GINA:

PART OF THE GRIEVING PROCESS IS SEEKING TO UNDERSTAND. THEREFORE, TO PLACE BLAME SEEMS NATURAL AT THIS POINT ON HIS FATHER'S PART...BUT FOR US, PLACING BLAME (WITHOUT ALL THE FACTS) ON EITHER BUSH OR THE DECEASED IS WRONG. "WE" HAVE LOST NOONE. GOD BE WITH HIM IF IT IS MORE THAN JUST A WICKED COINCIDENCE, BECAUSE THEN OUR NATION WILL NOT ALLOW HIM TO GRIEVE. CONSIDERING ALL THE RIGHTS WERE EQUIPPED WITH AS AMERICANS, THE UNSPOKEN RIGHT TO LOVE OUR CHILDREN "NO MATTER WHAT" SHOULD NOT BE FORGOTTEN. WHAT WOULDN'T YOU DO TO PROTECT YOUR OWN? GOD BE WITH US ALL!

Come on, Paul is absolutely... (Below threshold)
Mike:

Come on, Paul is absolutely correct about the father here. He is using his murdered son to make a political point. The father is going on CNN blasting Bush, saying that the Al Queda people are PROBABLY just as bad as the Bush administration!! Are you kidding me? I feel terrible for the rest of Nick Berg's family, but the father is going out of his way to make sure everyone knows he is blaming Bush for his son's death.

I agree with some of the ot... (Below threshold)
John:

I agree with some of the other posters. I don't think it's right to conspire so early. Although it's hard not to. I've got a lot of ideas and theories, but I'd rather think about them more, or wait for some honest truths. Which are hard to come by, (I mean this is the US of A aint it?) All I know is, this war is turning into a "slap fight" of sorts. And it's starting to really scare me (even though I've tried to fight the fear, but it's hard when every form of media is shoving it down our throats) because this is a religious crusade, and it's only going to get worse.

Didn't "the evil doers" offer us a truce? If "we" stop, "they" will stop? I could be wrong, but I swear I heard or read that someplace.

Oh, and concerning Nick Berg, I sympathise for their family, whether the conspiracy theorists are right or wrong about him being involved, I still sympathise. Besides losing a loved one, Imagine watching your own son get his head cut off? Being shown to millions of people around the world? I suppose to the people who did the killing, it was not much different than the worldwide humiliation of their soldiers. I'm not condoning it or understanding it or sympathising with THEM, but like I said, it's a lethal slap fight, and the only way it will end is if someone stops first.


one last thing..
I'm not too educated on the origins of this war. I know the Bush family has a history with the saddam, but I thought al-queda and saddam weren't exactly "pals". I thought they hated saddam. And frankly, I just don't see the relation between bin ladin, and saddam. So I want to know who through the first punch? Because it seems like these al-queda folks are more into retaliation. Did something happen before the September 11th attack? Was there even a first punch? Or has the American government been trying to take over the middle east? Sort of like a Roman Empire thing? Or was it a siding with Israel? What's going on here? Is it all a skull and bones thing?

"Thew" ...."who THREW the f... (Below threshold)
John:

"Thew" ...."who THREW the first punch..." not "Through". sorry

Listen to this please. The... (Below threshold)
Bob:

Listen to this please. The minute we are born we are dying. To waist so much precious time destroying things we are all a bunch of assholes.
Lennon was right when he said Imagine no religions, no countries. Let's all face it, we are
all from the same planet and we all want what is right for our children. I sometimes think that I am really stupid but to kill one another over differences in religion, philosophy, culture or anything else at this time 2004 is a fuckin pity.
I guess man really is doomed.We would all be better off accepting our differences and spending more time loving, caring, and helping each other rather than killing.I think nuclear is right around the corner the way things are going so give the kids a hug tonight, get in touch with all those friends you have been meaning to call and tighten up all those loose ends. We are running out of time.

John:So I want ... (Below threshold)

John:

So I want to know who through the first punch? Because it seems like these al-queda folks are more into retaliation. Did something happen before the September 11th attack? Was there even a first punch? Or has the American government been trying to take over the middle east? Sort of like a Roman Empire thing? Or was it a siding with Israel? What's going on here? Is it all a skull and bones thing?

It may be that al Qaeda is "into relatliation" -- but that doesn't necessarily mean what they're retaliating for ever actually happened. Personally, I think they're retaliating for the reconquista in which the Muslims were driven out of Spain.

Bob:

We would all be better off accepting our differences and spending more time loving, caring, and helping each other rather than killing.

Tell you what: go find Osama bin Laden and tell him he needs to accept our differences and spend more time loving, caring and helping. Let us know what he has to say.

John, I'm going to try to e... (Below threshold)

John, I'm going to try to explain al-Qaeda's motives, etc. ("Holy War, Inc." is a pretty good book on the subject.) OBL has made several demands: remove US troops from Saudi Arabia, lift sanctions against Iraq, and end support for Israel. That these are basically political demands do not make them right, or give them any sort of legitimacy. Not only do they demand too much, they're using terrorism to try and get it. You cannot negotiate with terrorists. If a group uses terrorism to get what they want and you give it to them, they'll probably think of something else they want. And other groups will learn from their success. Did the evil-doers offer us a "truce"? Better to think of them as "terms of surrender". And there's no reason to think they'll stop.

It's not a "slap fight", there's no "cycle of violence". Berg was kidnapped well before the Abu Ghraib photos came to light. Same for the Italian hostage, and Danny Pearl. Who started it? OBL talks about the "tragedy of Andalusia", when the Moors (who were Muslim) were kicked out of Spain (1492 AD). He'd probably also say the West started it with the Crusades (1095 AD). In both cases I think he'd neglect to mention, or care that these events both came several hundred years after the initial Moorish invasion of Spain. (711 AD) Because when Muslims start something, they're Muslims, not lousy kufr. And how the US could be responsible for something ancient European kingdoms did, I do not know.

"I know the Bush family has a history with the saddam". Yes of going to war with him and trying to bomb him.

"I thought (al-Qaeda) hated saddam." No, OBL certainly didn't like him, but that didn't preclude them working together against a common enemy (US). There are countless instances of shifting alliances in Arab history. For example, Iraq fought a bloody war with Iran, then during Gulf War I, Saddam sent most of his airforce to Iran for safekeeping. (Of course, Iran decided to keep the aircraft...)

I work for a small private ... (Below threshold)
Mary:

I work for a small private university on Chicago's southwest side. We have a significant Arab population. When 9/11 happened, FBI agents descended on our campus going through admissions, student and advising records (and I don't know what else). Of course we were not privy to what happened but several students were dismissed from the university and two were arrested for "being linked to terrorist activities". Rumor was that they had something to do with funneling money back to al Qaeda.

Did I have contact with the two arrested students? Of course. Did I casually chat with these two students in the dining hall or at campus events? You bet. Were their names on my work computer for a variety of reasons? Yes. Does that mean I supported the acts of terrorism that took place on 9/11 or since? Absolutely not!

Another point to consider is that we constantly have to tell our students over and over and over again that they absolutely should not give their passwords or personal information to anyone, including their friends, boyfriends or girlfriends. But they do. All the time. I can't tell you how many times I've had a student in my office crying, "My boyfriend/girlfriend checked my e-mail/IM history and knows I'm seeing someone else. What am I gonna do?" It's that "It can't happen to me" mentality.

I don't think we should assume Nick Berg was conspiring with terrorists - yet. It may truly be a coincidence or something more but I think it is too soon to assume anything.

McGehee:Tell yo... (Below threshold)
andy:

McGehee:

Tell you what: go find Osama bin Laden and tell him he needs to accept our differences and spend more time loving, caring and helping. Let us know what he has to say.

I think you meant to say "Let us know where you'd like your remains buried." Right?

McGehee:Tell yo... (Below threshold)
andy:

McGehee:

Tell you what: go find Osama bin Laden and tell him he needs to accept our differences and spend more time loving, caring and helping. Let us know what he has to say.

I think you meant to say "Let us know where you'd like your remains buried." Right?

And, uh, sorry for the doub... (Below threshold)
andy:

And, uh, sorry for the double post. Our network is all kinds of slow and misbehaving today.

This is weird. The... (Below threshold)

This is weird.

The most innocent scenario I can come up with is this: Berg had a coincidental encounter in Okla. A son of a radical family, this got him jazzed in that way best described in Conrad's story, "Youth". Berg then went looking to repeat the experience. He was clearly an adventurer. Not being where it was all happening was probably difficult for him. So he had to go where the action was. And this time he got in trouble.

This is of course all speculation. But something doesn't seem right about this story. I think he was killed by Al Qaeda just as the government said ... but there's a key fact we're all missing. Unless it's the weird coincidence, followed by youthful adventurism theory, I don't know how to interpret based on these facts.

The father is grieving. He gets a moratorium on anything he says for at least a few months. You know, until he goes to visit Arafat, like Rachel Corrie's family.

i dont know what to say abo... (Below threshold)
Michael:

i dont know what to say about bush at this point. What i do know is that this poor man did not deserve what happened to him, GOD BLESS HIM

Leave the kid and his famil... (Below threshold)
Ali:

Leave the kid and his family alone. So he doesn't agree with your politics. Doesn't matter; rumors and lies are cruel.

A quick google search of "berg FBI moussaoui" brings up plenty of articles saying that this is completely false.

Arab linguists have said th... (Below threshold)
tom:

Arab linguists have said the man posing as the Jordanian Zaraqawi did not speak with a Jordanian dialect. Others have suggested the man reading the written statement may not have been a native speaker of Arabic.

Zaraqawi was missing one leg and had been outfitted with an artificial leg that did not fit or function properly. He was unable to walk or stand normally with his ill-fitting limb. No man in the group showed evidence of such an infirmity.

Numerous indigenous sources have said Zaraqawi was killed by a US helicopter attack months ago when he was unable to move quickly enough to escape the targeted house. While others managed to exit the house in time to survive, he died in the collapsed building.

As any surgeon will testify, the alleged beheading was a fake. A beheading would result in a tremendous amount of spurting blood. There would have been blood everywhere had an actual beheading taken place. When the executioner holds up Berg's head immediately following what is represented as an actual decapitation of a living person, there is no significant blood flow from the neck or blood splatters showing anywhere on the executioner. Furthermore, the cut was simply too neat to have been done crudely and with such amazing speed by a man wielding a knife. Anybody who has ever carved a turkey knows there is something wrong with the supposed beheading. The suspended head looks more like Berg had been neatly beheaded by a guillotine.

The orange jumpsuit was standard US military issue to men in custody. It is unlikely Berg would have continuing wearing a US custodial uniform if he had been released by the military as they claim. The fact he was still wearing the suit is both anomalous and suggestive. One is forced to speculate as to whether there was an immediate transfer of Berg from the US military to unknown persons, thusly preventing Berg from discarding his US prison garb.

Several of the men in the film were fat by Iraqi standards. If they were Feyadeen or mujahadeen, they probably have been living underground since the first days of the occupation. Tens of thousands of Iraqis have been shown on news stories as they have marched and demonstrated. One would be hard pressed to point out a single fat man among these thousands.

Some men had what can only be described as pasty-white hands. Once again, one would be hard pressed to find Arab men with pasty-white hands.

The lack of spurting blood suggests Berg was already dead at the time of the alleged decapitation. It is possible Berg's dead body was displayed with his head already partially or totally severed. In any case, he almost certainly was killed before the staged beheading. If so, it suggests the captors had no stomach for an actual beheading of a living person, and they opted to fulfill their assignment quietly and with the least amount of gore.

The scream that is heard has been interpreted as a woman's scream by many viewers. Videotape cognoscenti have further said the scream was amateurishly added to the tape.

The U.S. government translation of one statement made on the film is: "Does al Qaeda need any further excuses?" This is a falsification. The actual statement urged fellow insurgents to get off their hind ends and do something. One assumes the translator being used by the US military is a native speaker of Arabic, so this cannot be explained as an innocent flub. This suggests the US government wanted to inject an alleged al- Qaeda group into the murder of Nick Berg.

Iraqis who have seen the videotape on Arabic news broadcasts are universally saying the men in the film are not Iraqis. Are they saying this partly because the speaker does not employ an Iraqi dialect? Where does their certainty come from?

Firearms experts have stated the AK-47 carried by one man was a "Gilal." This actually is an Israeli-made weapon that improves on the famous AK- 47. Feyadeen and other insurgents almost universally use AK-47s.

The man in the videotape who is purported to be Zarqawi is wearing a gold ring. This is absolutely proscribed by Islamic law.

The US military has stated that Berg was never in US custody and that he had been in custody of the Iraqi police. The Iraqi police adamantly deny he was ever in their custody. On April 1, an e-mail from Beth A. Payne, the U.S. consular officer in Iraq, was sent to the family of Nick Berg. It stated that Ms. Payne had located Nick, and he was currently in custody of the US military. We have to conclude that either the email was bogus or the US military has been lying.

The chair that Berg was seated in during the filming was a standard issue military chair of the exact same kind as seen in a color photo taken at the Abu Ghraib Prison. The chances a terrorist cell would be using this same chair are minimal at best.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bullshit, tom. "As any sur... (Below threshold)

Bullshit, tom. "As any surgeon will testify.." Amazing that not a single one has come forward. "Iraqis who have seen the videotape on Arabic news broadcasts are universally saying the men in the film are not Iraqis." "Others have suggested the man reading the written statement may not have been a native speaker of Arabic." Bullshit, this Iraqi, who's certainly not pro-US, would've mentioned it, especially since she's "still hoping- albeit irrationally- that the whole thing was some sort of grotesque setup." And "military issue chairs"?!? You've got to be kidding. I used to have that exact same type of chair in my backyard, and I didn't get it from the Army.

Of course you don't have a single link to support your contentions, probably because you only have one source for the "Gilal AK-47" bullshit. Wonder if whatreallyhappened.com stole his Berg bullshit from that white supremacist website like he did last time. Go crawl back under your rock.

Is that dorkafork or forkad... (Below threshold)
Paul:

Is that dorkafork or forkadork?

Ultimately Nick Berg asked ... (Below threshold)
Explicit:

Ultimately Nick Berg asked for it. If you're a U.S civilian and you happen upon the notion of travelling to Iraq, and while on your trip you're captured and decapitated. Well, don't be surprised. There is a war going on there after all.

Did something happen bef... (Below threshold)
Explicit:

Did something happen before the September 11th attack? Was there even a first punch? Or has the American government been trying to take over the middle east? Sort of like a Roman Empire thing? Or was it a siding with Israel? What's going on here? Is it all a skull and bones thing?

Hah, read this. http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2001/465/465p15.htm

An al-qaeda leader kills an... (Below threshold)
Russ W:

An al-qaeda leader kills an American in a televised beheading. The "20th 9/11 hijacker" had the same man's computer or e-mail password. Yet this was a fantastic coincidence. --- To not question such a conclusion displays a stunning lack of curiosity.

Okay, Russ, I'm curious. Wh... (Below threshold)

Okay, Russ, I'm curious. Why the hell would they want to kill one of their own?

Enlighten us.

I'm not usually a conspirac... (Below threshold)
sandra dee:

I'm not usually a conspiracy type..but here's what I think the evidence (so far) supports.
Nick Berg believed he could bring about peace by working with AQ and helping the terrorists understand us. The terrorists were using him in some way, and once he was detained by Iraqi police for 13 days, his terrorist friends got suspicious, worried about what he might say, and killed him.
We all know about the Moussaoui link..that's too weird to just be a coincidence. If he actually has the same ideology as his father, then he probably believed "we can all just get along if we shake hands and try to understand each other." If he was a pro-Bush, pro-war American, as some say, then why would he have felt safe enough to travel all around Iraq, alone?
Every pro-war person I know, understands just how dangerous the terrorists are, they understand they really just want you dead. A radical anti-war activist is more likely to feel safe in a hostile land, believing they're always among friends.
I won't rehash the other evidence that supports this conclusion, and yes, it's early to say for sure. That said, what happened to Mr. Berg is a horrible tragedy. I think he was probably just guilty of trusting too much and not seeing the world as it is. God bless his family.

What happened to Nick Berg ... (Below threshold)
John:

What happened to Nick Berg is truly disturbing no matter how one looks at it. All these discussions are good, however, I think we're all missing the 'big' picture. Why are we even at war with Iraq? Did we find any "weapons of mass destruction?" Wasn't Saddam captured? Where is he now? If somebody can give me the answer to that one I'd...umm I dunno...give him a big thank you. The Bush Administration and the governmet for that matter are not telling the general public all the details. This will be the case for all of time, but we cannot continue to try to change the way other countries live. Many accusations against Iraq and other middle eastern countries are false. For example, I read that women in Iraq are not permitted to attend school. Although women don't have a whole lot of rights like they enjoy in the US, they do have the right to attend school, there's just a limitation on it, and most women become pregnant and stop going to school to take care of their children. Just because we as Americans disagree with the way other countries operate and govern their citizens, does not give us the right to even attempt to take over or change them. Heavily religous countries such as Iraq hate us because of our lack of religious strength and faith. We in general obsess over sex. Muslims and many many religions believe that the only reason for sex is to reproduce, not for gratification(don't get me wrong, I absolutely love to fuck). To most of these countries, we are a nation of sinners, but I don't see too many of them in our capital toppling statues and turning our democracy into a dictatorship. If you wanna do something about this or any other political/world event, write your congressmen, state representatives, governors, mayor, shit write to George W. Bush for all I care. Or how bout going to a community college getting an associates degree in political science and running for office yourself. This is America right...live the American Dream. Get your opinions out, if you don't like who's running for office, let political reps. know how you feel, be proactive. How about joining the service and experiencing war first hand? I'll be over in a few months, I'll let ya know how it is...

Sorry for the lengthy rambling, I just have lots on my mind at the moment.

PEACE

Piecing together the truth.... (Below threshold)
Prinz:

Piecing together the truth.. it is a constant challenge. A battle of those brave enough to publish here or elsewhere the reality.. vs the disceptive and dis-information junkies wielding their deceitful pens.

When confronted with a series of well researched facts, such as those logical, provable and documented ones posted by TOM, my suspicions of certain special interest groups grow and make more sense. Think friends.. who might they be??

One response to Tom's posting really was typical in dis-information.. or might I say, the attack of his statements by Dorkafork, was full of arrogance and trickery.. Fortunately, detractors of the truth such as DORKAFORK, cannot play that B.S. with most of us.

Keep thinking my Brothers and Sisters...
God Bless America

I wish I was as well read a... (Below threshold)
Pritchel:

I wish I was as well read and informed as to put together a well written post,but I'm not.I am the average joe cruising the net stopping at what ever catches my interest.This is on the fly for I felt compeled to express my shock and horror. My heart has been broken at the images I have just seen.(NBVid)There may or may not be a connection between NB and al-Qaeda, but whatever his intentions or connections (or lack there of)that this was not the end he envisioned. Speculation on these points are healthy though; We as Americans don't want wool pulled over our eyes. We need the Truth...It's programmed into us from birth.Who wants to be a sheep anyways? My love and prayers go to the Family of Nick Berg and to the Families of all our Soldiers.Pro-war or anti-war We're here and they're there. GOD BLESS

Tom:You are either... (Below threshold)
anv:

Tom:

You are either a deplorable human being or sadly misled.

I am a surgeon. I have reviewed the video frame by frame. Without question, Nick Berg was absolutely not "dead at the time of his alleged decapitation," as you claim.

Your claim that only a guillotine could perform such a decapitation reveals you know nothing about the guillotine or human anatomy.

Your "military issue" chair is the same made in china junk plastic chair found around the globe and at every WalMart and Home Depot.

His outfit was not a prison jumpsuit. I challenge you to find a picture of a prison jumpsuit like that: it had a sheen of silk or satin and doesn't look anything like any prison jumpsuit i've seen.

You should be ashamed of yourself. I write this reply to prevent hapless readers from believing your nonsense.


Have a nice day.

I'll just remind us all tha... (Below threshold)

I'll just remind us all that one-in-a-million coincidences do happen. And that Nick Berg was, in all likelihood, simply a danger tourist, though perhaps one who wanted to help rebuild Iraq while he was at it.

The loathsome speculations of "Tom" and "Prinz," whom I note will not give full names or websites, are a pathetic neo-Nazi imitation of this excellent critique of the "Alien Autopsy" hoax, preying on the susceptible.

Hey, AVN (surgeon), just a ... (Below threshold)
Wespe:

Hey, AVN (surgeon), just a few technical questions about the video. (I have no dog in this hunt.)

Why don't we see blood after the beheading? Shouldn't there have been a lot of it? BTW: I know nothing about the guillotine or human anatomy.

Can you give a few more reasons why the orange outfit wasn't a prison jumpsuit? The video quality was so poor, with bad lighting, which can result in some unusual glows.

Can you talk a little more about the other claims in Tom's e-mail? I would like to read your analysis there--especially re his claim that there is a woman's voice dubbed in.

And, oh Jay, I won't have my full-name up there either. Spam and flames are definitely something I try to avoid. But I will e-mail you and "avn" to let you know my ID since I believe you to be honorable people who will not misuse this information.

Ave et atque.

I am still confused about h... (Below threshold)
QuestionGuy:

I am still confused about how Moussaoui obtained Nick Berg's password and used his email account.

Nick went to Mosul and saw relatives and setup them up with an email account. Why wouldn't he do the same thing with Moussaoui instead of allowing him unfettered access to his private account? It doesn't make any sense to me.

"In an e-mail, Berg described the visit with Moffak Mustaffa, the brother of his late paternal aunt's husband, writing that they "got along splendidly."

"We spent a few hours and I helped him establish an e-mail account... . It was a very interesting time and I noticed again that there is a huge disconnect with relationships here."

link to the story:
http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/8654361.htm

This is a very emotional topic. I realize that there are many here who are posting with their feelings and not using their analytical sides. While I feel this was a horrific act, there are still many questions that need to be answered.

to anv, since you are a surgeon, would there be more blood flowing with a live body, or simply a three foot puddle of blood? They were hacking away attempting to cut his head off. It wasn't done with one fell swoop.

Regarding the "sheen" on the orange garb he was wearing. Is it possible that this was a reflection caused by lighting? (and the poor quality of video?) It appears that the shadow behind him would lend itself to the fact that there was a light shining on him.

I'm also still confused by the clock on the video which switches from standard to military time.

There are so many questions.

He has every right to blast... (Below threshold)
PAUL:

He has every right to blast Bush and make political points over the death of his son.
Because he believes his son is dead because of Bush's politics.
You don't have to agree with him but don't claim it's wrong for him 'to use' the death of his son to critisize Bush.

It looks to me like the CIA... (Below threshold)
DJ Peace:

It looks to me like the CIA, or some element of the government killed Nicholas Berg. Consider this html:
http://english.pravda.ru/mailbox/22/101/397/12790_Berg.html
They think the execution was a fake, but irregardless it sees government involvement.
It seems odd, the timing, the facts, the motives.
One other odd bit is that CNN reported that the accent of the speaker in the video does not match the type that Zaqrawi would have.
It appears that "there is a fish-in the perculator."

It looks to me like the CIA... (Below threshold)
DJ Peace:

It looks to me like the CIA, or some element of the government killed Nicholas Berg. Consider this html:
http://english.pravda.ru/mailbox/22/101/397/12790_Berg.html
They think the execution was a fake, but irregardless it sees government involvement.
It seems odd, the timing, the facts, the motives.
One other odd bit is that CNN reported that the accent of the speaker in the video does not match the type that Zaqrawi would have.
It appears that "there is a fish-in the perculator."

Paul: I personally believe ... (Below threshold)
DaveP:

Paul: I personally believe that three thousand Americans are dead because of the beliefs of people like Michael Berg's old man. HOW DARE you criticise me in my mourning for blaming those who I feel are responsible?

Berg - God Bless him and hi... (Below threshold)
Brian D:

Berg - God Bless him and his family, could only get this close to two Al Qaida leaders if he was Intelligence Agent. No way American can get that to close to not one (Moussaui) but two (Zaraqawi) is just too incomprehensible. Seems to me he was a very very brave agent of some Govt. (US / Israel) that risked and gave his life to pretend to be a Muslim sympathizer. How else does he end up on a bus in Oklahoma going to a remote campus of OSU with the "20th Hijacker" and then end up in Iraq alone only to find another Al Qaida leader. I mean come on, if some alleged "naive businessman" from PA could do that, then woudn't some of our very competent Intelligence Community been able to get close to the Terrorist Leaders that are still out there and have them taken out. Think about it! If this guy wan't Intelligence then he was better than everyone in the Intelligence Community. Also, he appeared to have changed his appearance from what he looked like on TV Pics of him at home. He appeare in the video to more like a young arab man. You do the math. God Bless His Soul, his family should be very proud of him. He gave his life for his country and his faith Judaism. God Bless America.

WARNING: GRAPHIC DESCRIPTI... (Below threshold)
anv:

WARNING: GRAPHIC DESCRIPTION

Wespe:

In my first post I first wrote it explaining in detail what I saw to refute Tom's rediculous assertions, then read it and found it so horrific that I deleted the gory details. I will tell you what I found in detail since you asked.

If you have WinXP you can do this yourself. Open the file in windows moviemaker. Expand the timeframe to maximum. Go to the portion of the video with the decapitation taking place. Yes, the video has low resolution, however you will note the following: In going frame by frame there are unmistakable appearances and disappearances of red fluid which represents pulsatile, arterial flow from his right carotid artery. This is most visible at the angle of Nick Berg's jaw. In another set of frames, pulsatile retrograde flow is visible from the right carotic artery (the vertebral arteries likely maintained this briefly).

Also, compare the skin tone of his face from the moment he is brought to the floor and the end of the act: his skin gradually loses any pink, normal skin tone and becomes a pale bluish-gray. This happens as the blood supply is lost since oxygenated blood is no longer present.

There is one point at which the act is almost finished where the camera zooms out. Clearly there is a large pool of blood on the floor (which appears to be carpet and therefore absorbant). Note there is an obvious color difference between the floor color beneath his neck and the rest of the floor.

Furthermore, NB is also seen clearly flexing his hips and knees and arching his back to resist early in the attack. He is held in place by terrorist #1 (leftmost in the lineup).

anv

Coincidence? Letís take a q... (Below threshold)
Big J:

Coincidence? Letís take a quick probability approach: winning the lottery, lightening strike, allowing a terrorist gain your password information and later ending up in an Iraqi home video?

I personally am sick of all fanatical religious Muslims. As I watch my local gas prices climb into the stratosphere, my dislike for Middle Eastern inhabitants increase to a fever pitch. I think the Middle East would make a lovely glass parking lot. I have no tolerance for Muslim murderers or their screwed up ideology.

B.J.

ANV:Thanks so much... (Below threshold)
Wespe:

ANV:

Thanks so much for the explicit information! I have found in my own field (philosophy and religion) when I have to knock down some off-the-wall conspiracy theory I have to be as specific as possible. Otherwise, the discussion turns out to be one set of generalities against another.

But with what you told us, anyone can do the same analysis and see that your description is confirmed by the video. You have done us all a favor.

Wespe

Kudos to "anv" for debunkin... (Below threshold)

Kudos to "anv" for debunking the he's-not-really-being-killed meme.

Thanks to Wespe for the e-mail with a real name.

No kudos or thanks to the "it couldn't have been a coincidence" crowd emerging from the woodwork. Get some real critical thinking skills, people. Ever heard of six degrees of separation? Any of us could communicate indirectly with anyone in the world, even someone with no access to a phone or a motorized vehicle, in a few days at most. I could be in touch with a CIA agent! I could be in touch with Al-Qa'eda! I must be up to something! If anybody kills me, it can't be a random act of terror, it must be a full-blown Bush/Islamist/Zionist plot!

Explanation of clock on vid... (Below threshold)

Explanation of clock on video (bear with me): There are two cameras. The very first shot of Berg is from the camera on the right, it says 13:26:24 (1:26:24 translated from military time). There's a cut to the camera on the left, which is perpendicular to the wall, it says 2:18:33. So they're out of synch which is not uncommon for two different cameras. The other explanation is that the shots were filmed by the same camera at different times. But we can see that's not the case when looking at the actual execution. You can go to 2:44:17 (by the in-video clock). The video cuts to 13:45:47 (camera on the right). The video continues (13:46:33 to 13:47:46 has been edited out) then at 13:47:53 cuts to 2:46:17. At 2:46:17 the head is being held level by the terrorist. At 13:47:48 Berg's head is held level by the terrorist 13:47:48 - 13:45:47 = 2:01. 2:46:17 - 2:44:17 = 2:00. It's one second off because this is not an exact measurement, there are no milliseconds on the camera. The segment after 2:46:17 is the exact same as 13:47:48-13:47:53. The camera on the right is moving leftward, the terrorist twists his body leftward to follow the camera, so that it appears that he is not moving, but the upward movement is the same and takes places at the same time according to the synchronization.

Or maybe the CIA figured it all out and timed it perfectly to make a fake. You know, the same CIA that made a fake execution that any doctor anywhere could see through. We are through the looking glass, people!

I'm also still c... (Below threshold)
Xrlq:
I'm also still confused by the clock on the video which switches from standard to military time.

My guess is that they used two cameras, and didn't synchronize the clocks. However, the time lags don't match up quite right. I suspect that the two portions of the introduction may have been recorded in the opposite order that they appeared, with a roughly five minute delay in between.

Also I defy anyone to show ... (Below threshold)

Also I defy anyone to show me this "gold ring" or point out minor details that would allow one to determine what variant of AK-47 the guys were using. This video was released to the world via an Islamist website, so I also defy you to try and find a higher resolution version.

And to me the scream sounds like a guy's scream. Kinda subjective. Use your own judgement. I personally wouldn't be swayed by the judgement of someone who sees pasty fat white guys with non-existant gold rings and Israeli AKs who don't have artificial legs (who also happens to get his info from an anti-Semitic website).

I feel very sorry for the f... (Below threshold)
Eyegirl247:

I feel very sorry for the family of Nick Berg. My family lost my 39 year old brother to a sensless act 2 years ago. However, I am with John. Everyone has a right to his or her own opinion. We americans should live the american dream. Iraq, Iran, Afghanastan....they will never know what we have. It is impossible for them to fathom our kind of democracy. Nick Berg had freedom. If he indeed shared information with a terrorist, it was his choice. If he was being investigated for it, the government has that responsibility (after 9/11 we need to be more cautious don't you think). It was his choice to go to Iraq. Ya see, men like my brother, a gunner in the A company 1-26 Infantry in Iraq, fight to secure freedom so that Americans can screw their lives up anytime they wish. Conspiracy? I thought the X-files had run its course. Blame Bush if it makes you feel good. But by God, be grateful that we can sit in our homes and not only be able to have these opinions, but be able to share them publicly without facing a death squad. And if you think you could do a better job, run for office, or like john said, join the service and experience war for yourselves. God Bless America and the United States Military.

i get a kick out of the way... (Below threshold)
thetruth:

i get a kick out of the way you can ad lib facts that never existed, for instance, i knew nick when he lived in norman and as police records here will show, he was constantly arrested for sleeping in parks and behind buildings, he was homeless and broke while here, and no he didnt have a laptop.
he worked part time at the university with me for peanuts.
it is also very easy, if you have ever lived around a university to access and use student email accounts as most universities set them up with a generic password and most students do not change that.
lets just try to keep speculation to a minimum shall we?

I still have questions abou... (Below threshold)
More Questions:

I still have questions about the video. At the PRECISE moment that it appeared the beheading was taking place, the camera switches. Several seconds before this, we hear what *appears* to be a woman's voice shrieking.

The first camera stayed in a static location for 4 plus minutes and only at the time when the figure in the middle was about to use the knife, is when it suddenly changed.

I agree, this is a horrific act in which Nick did not deserve. However, anybody with a free video editing program can do a better job than this.

To thetruth,You st... (Below threshold)
MoreQuestions:

To thetruth,

You state you *knew* Nick when he lived in Norman. Could you please elaborate on this? i.e. did you speak with him often/sometimes/never? Did you ever have a conversation with him? Were you considered a friend, an acquaintance? Or did you simply happen to see him when you were working "part-time" with him. What did you and he do for part-time work?

Please cite your source that states "most students do not change" the password on their student email accounts. Please provide an example of a "generic" password. Would this be the last 4 digits of their social? Their zipcode? etc?

I'm confused about the laptop. You state that he did not have one, yet the FBI reports he did. I'm trying to understand the discrepency. Should I heed the posting of an anonymous individual on the internet, or that of the federal government?

Thanks for answering the questions in detail.

The only people who are to ... (Below threshold)
Mplspug:

The only people who are to blame for the act were the 5 soulless people who were behind Nick Berg. Until definitive proof is put on the table, not including here-say and speculation, I wonít believe otherwise. I have watched the video and it sickened me 10 times more than 9/11, I suppose because I actually witnessed someone dieing. And not just getting his throat slashed, but mutilated and hacked until his head could be held up for the camera.

That being said, I donít understand his fatherís response to all of this. When it first happened, he gushed about how Nick backed the Bush admin and how he believed he could do good over there setting up the infrastructure. Then as quick as they could pile dirt and erect a headstone, he starts blaming Bush and babbling off liberal spew that he has ingested during the campaign. You know the mantra, ďBush, youíre fired!Ē However, I digress before Trump slaps me with a copyright infringement lawsuit. I understand the 5 stages of grieving, however I donít know where political statements fits in there. In addition, if in fact his first statements about his sons backing of the Bush campaign were honest, he should be ashamed for ripping his sonís beliefs on a national soapbox, even if he disagreed with him. The fatherís actions have rather soiled the whole thing to where I am not as outraged as I once was. With all the other things that are becoming known, I have decided to just be outraged by the act, no matter what the circumstance, except for oneÖ

And hereís where I play devilís advocate or al qaeda advocate if you prefer, wouldnít a communications specialist be a great asset for a terrorist group in a country that is being reborn? I donít put any credence to my own speculation even, but I will throw that out for the rest of you who believe you have the answer to everything. Just look at your sources, the media, the internet, the government and me. There is no credibility there.

Whoops, almost forgot one t... (Below threshold)
Mplspug:

Whoops, almost forgot one thing. I find it very hard to believe that he would have lent his laptop to anyone. Ask yourself this, would you let anyone use your computer? Maybe itís just me, but the phrase ďPersonal ComputerĒ means more than just my computer, it means my, mine, not yours, private, keep your mitts off and no frickíen way you can borrow my laptop. For crying in the rain, how many people still have cookies enabled on their browser? I donít believe for one moment he lent or allowed anyone to access his computer unless they were acquaintances. Especially a guy in his work who would know all the harm that can come to your computer by letting someone else use it.

I say there are 2 cameras... (Below threshold)
Trystan:

I say there are 2 cameras. The first one is looks like it is on a tripod. That's the one that shows the time in 2:XX:XX. The 2nd one is hand-held and has the time stamp in military time.

Right after the person is done reading the statement, the camera goes from a stable tripod (the camera is completely still for almost 4 minutes) to a shaky zoom. Also, this is the first time stamp jump. If you closely watch, when this part is editied, the viewpoint jumps a few feet to the right.

I looked at their hands to see how white they are, but they appear to be the same color as some of the naked Iraqi men in the prison pictures. Also, I wouldn't consider any of their hands "pasty" or "lily"-white like I have heard them described. This is a misleading description.

As someone mentioned before, those plastic chairs are cheap and mass-produced. Some people try to mislead others by implying that this particular type of chair can only be found in the prison, but those types of proof are not conclusive.

Then there's the orange jump suit that is found in the prison in guat. Not sure if they're used in Iraq or not. So, I'm suppose to believe they flew him halfway around the world, killed him, the sent is decapitated body back halfway around the world again so they could "find" the body.

Last thing about the video, I can think of 2 things. The first thing is someone was being tortured off camera. It would explain the woman-like voice and why it wasn't sync'd proper. The other thing would be he was drugged up. This would explain the need for them to poorly dubbed a voice in, a woman's to make it more humiliating. Also would be one of a few reasons he wasn't struggling.

To someone else's question about what happened before 9-11. Terrorists have tried before to bomb the twin towers. In the mid-90's they parked a truck bomb in the basement parking area, but that only resulted in a few damaged support pillars. Then there were a few embassy bombings, bombing of the USS Cole, and a few other things like that.

There was the first Gulf war that was "officially" started when Iraq invaded Kuwait. Of course, there was always bad blood beween the Middle East and the US because of our support of Isreal.

Isreal/Palestine conflict is a very messy one. They both have claims on that land that stretch back hundreds of years. Both sides have had oppurtunities to end the war but one or the other refused.

I have many different opini... (Below threshold)
bj:

I have many different opinions on all of this, but I am having trouble finding the video. I don't feel like I can post my opinion until I see it. Where did you guys find it?

OK...So I read all of the a... (Below threshold)
jb:

OK...So I read all of the above postings with their various theories abounding as regards the video of Mr.Nick Berg; and his connection(s) or lack thereof to the terrorists. I am just your average American/rubbernecker...as one writer already said....(well..I added "rubbernecker")cruising the net, attempting to understand this war, prisoner abuse, Bush, Rumsfield, and now..especially Nick Berg's tragedy. I have to say, I am more confused than ever now as to the Nick Berg saga and it's relationship with the terrorists. Personally I do not believe the password incident, then beheading, is mere coincidence. Is the CIA involved? I see that as a possibility. There are too many sources who have come out saying that the US had Berg in their hands in Iraq before any other group got their hooks in him. I hate having become this cynical about my own government. So, I soaked in every word you have all written, and now have more to toss around in my head. May we all put as much enery & thought into the upcoming election. It is time for the Bush dynasty to end. Time for Junior to quit trying to compensate for everything daddy didn't get to finish. So, we now pray that Kerry can do better? Sheesh! I would much prefer Colin Powell. Too bad he is not an option.
As to Mr. Berg senior..who knows what this family is going thru..not only did they literally have to see their loved one beheaded, they also have to endure the media's blitz, and all of the public's suppositions. So...to the Berg family, I say May God Bless you and keep you sane thru all of this.
I cannot begin to imagine how I would feel were it one of my young adult sons.
So, is it time to dig in real deep and go for it as regards this war. Or...is it time to get our military(often 18 year old kids..which I find unconscionable), back home where they belong and F'n let the middle east all kill each other while we protect our own. I know this sounds awfully simplistic, but I need some hope. Maybe we could all start walking again..get rid of the obesity statistics in America, and say F**k the desert gas!
This is a good site, by the way.

Respectfully
(EM)passionate

OK...So I read all of the a... (Below threshold)
jb:

OK...So I read all of the above postings with their various theories abounding as regards the video of Mr.Nick Berg; and his connection(s) or lack thereof to the terrorists. I am just your average American/rubbernecker...as one writer already said....(well..I added "rubbernecker")cruising the net, attempting to understand this war, prisoner abuse, Bush, Rumsfield, and now..especially Nick Berg's tragedy. I have to say, I am more confused than ever now as to the Nick Berg saga and it's relationship with the terrorists. Personally I do not believe the password incident, then beheading, is mere coincidence. Is the CIA involved? I see that as a possibility. There are too many sources who have come out saying that the US had Berg in their hands in Iraq before any other group got their hooks in him. I hate having become this cynical about my own government. So, I soaked in every word you have all written, and now have more to toss around in my head. May we all put as much enery & thought into the upcoming election. It is time for the Bush dynasty to end. Time for Junior to quit trying to compensate for everything daddy didn't get to finish. So, we now pray that Kerry can do better? Sheesh! I would much prefer Colin Powell. Too bad he is not an option.
As to Mr. Berg senior..who knows what this family is going thru..not only did they literally have to see their loved one beheaded, they also have to endure the media's blitz, and all of the public's suppositions. So...to the Berg family, I say May God Bless you and keep you sane thru all of this.
I cannot begin to imagine how I would feel were it one of my young adult sons.
So, is it time to dig in real deep and go for it as regards this war. Or...is it time to get our military(often 18 year old kids..which I find unconscionable), back home where they belong and F'n let the middle east all kill each other while we protect our own. I know this sounds awfully simplistic, but I need some hope. Maybe we could all start walking again..get rid of the obesity statistics in America, and say F**k the desert gas!
This is a good site, by the way.

Respectfully
(EM)passionate

OK...So I read all of the a... (Below threshold)
jb:

OK...So I read all of the above postings with their various theories abounding as regards the video of Mr.Nick Berg; and his connection(s) or lack thereof to the terrorists. I am just your average American/rubbernecker...as one writer already said....(well..I added "rubbernecker")cruising the net, attempting to understand this war, prisoner abuse, Bush, Rumsfield, and now..especially Nick Berg's tragedy. I have to say, I am more confused than ever now as to the Nick Berg saga and it's relationship with the terrorists. Personally I do not believe the password incident, then beheading, is mere coincidence. Is the CIA involved? I see that as a possibility. There are too many sources who have come out saying that the US had Berg in their hands in Iraq before any other group got their hooks in him. I hate having become this cynical about my own government. So, I soaked in every word you have all written, and now have more to toss around in my head. May we all put as much enery & thought into the upcoming election. It is time for the Bush dynasty to end. Time for Junior to quit trying to compensate for everything daddy didn't get to finish. So, we now pray that Kerry can do better? Sheesh! I would much prefer Colin Powell. Too bad he is not an option.
As to Mr. Berg senior..who knows what this family is going thru..not only did they literally have to see their loved one beheaded, they also have to endure the media's blitz, and all of the public's suppositions. So...to the Berg family, I say May God Bless you and keep you sane thru all of this.
I cannot begin to imagine how I would feel were it one of my young adult sons.
So, is it time to dig in real deep and go for it as regards this war. Or...is it time to get our military(often 18 year old kids..which I find unconscionable), back home where they belong and F'n let the middle east all kill each other while we protect our own. I know this sounds awfully simplistic, but I need some hope. Maybe we could all start walking again..get rid of the obesity statistics in America, and say F**k the desert gas!
This is a good site, by the way.

Respectfully
(EM)passionate

OK...So I read all of the a... (Below threshold)
jb:

OK...So I read all of the above postings with their various theories abounding as regards the video of Mr.Nick Berg; and his connection(s) or lack thereof to the terrorists. I am just your average American/rubbernecker...as one writer already said....(well..I added "rubbernecker")cruising the net, attempting to understand this war, prisoner abuse, Bush, Rumsfield, and now..especially Nick Berg's tragedy. I have to say, I am more confused than ever now as to the Nick Berg saga and it's relationship with the terrorists. Personally I do not believe the password incident, then beheading, is mere coincidence. Is the CIA involved? I see that as a possibility. There are too many sources who have come out saying that the US had Berg in their hands in Iraq before any other group got their hooks in him. I hate having become this cynical about my own government. So, I soaked in every word you have all written, and now have more to toss around in my head. May we all put as much enery & thought into the upcoming election. It is time for the Bush dynasty to end. Time for Junior to quit trying to compensate for everything daddy didn't get to finish. So, we now pray that Kerry can do better? Sheesh! I would much prefer Colin Powell. Too bad he is not an option.
As to Mr. Berg senior..who knows what this family is going thru..not only did they literally have to see their loved one beheaded, they also have to endure the media's blitz, and all of the public's suppositions. So...to the Berg family, I say May God Bless you and keep you sane thru all of this.
I cannot begin to imagine how I would feel were it one of my young adult sons.
So, is it time to dig in real deep and go for it as regards this war. Or...is it time to get our military(often 18 year old kids..which I find unconscionable), back home where they belong and F'n let the middle east all kill each other while we protect our own. I know this sounds awfully simplistic, but I need some hope. Maybe we could all start walking again..get rid of the obesity statistics in America, and say F**k the desert gas!
This is a good site, by the way.

Respectfully
(EM)passionate

OK...So I read all of the a... (Below threshold)
jb:

OK...So I read all of the above postings with their various theories abounding as regards the video of Mr.Nick Berg; and his connection(s) or lack thereof to the terrorists. I am just your average American/rubbernecker...as one writer already said....(well..I added "rubbernecker")cruising the net, attempting to understand this war, prisoner abuse, Bush, Rumsfield, and now..especially Nick Berg's tragedy. I have to say, I am more confused than ever now as to the Nick Berg saga and it's relationship with the terrorists. Personally I do not believe the password incident, then beheading, is mere coincidence. Is the CIA involved? I see that as a possibility. There are too many sources who have come out saying that the US had Berg in their hands in Iraq before any other group got their hooks in him. I hate having become this cynical about my own government. So, I soaked in every word you have all written, and now have more to toss around in my head. May we all put as much enery & thought into the upcoming election. It is time for the Bush dynasty to end. Time for Junior to quit trying to compensate for everything daddy didn't get to finish. So, we now pray that Kerry can do better? Sheesh! I would much prefer Colin Powell. Too bad he is not an option.
As to Mr. Berg senior..who knows what this family is going thru..not only did they literally have to see their loved one beheaded, they also have to endure the media's blitz, and all of the public's suppositions. So...to the Berg family, I say May God Bless you and keep you sane thru all of this.
I cannot begin to imagine how I would feel were it one of my young adult sons.
So, is it time to dig in real deep and go for it as regards this war. Or...is it time to get our military(often 18 year old kids..which I find unconscionable), back home where they belong and F'n let the middle east all kill each other while we protect our own. I know this sounds awfully simplistic, but I need some hope. Maybe we could all start walking again..get rid of the obesity statistics in America, and say F**k the desert gas!
This is a good site, by the way.

Respectfully
(EM)passionate

OK...So I read all of the a... (Below threshold)
jb:

OK...So I read all of the above postings with their various theories abounding as regards the video of Mr.Nick Berg; and his connection(s) or lack thereof to the terrorists. I am just your average American/rubbernecker...as one writer already said....(well..I added "rubbernecker")cruising the net, attempting to understand this war, prisoner abuse, Bush, Rumsfield, and now..especially Nick Berg's tragedy. I have to say, I am more confused than ever now as to the Nick Berg saga and it's relationship with the terrorists. Personally I do not believe the password incident, then beheading, is mere coincidence. Is the CIA involved? I see that as a possibility. There are too many sources who have come out saying that the US had Berg in their hands in Iraq before any other group got their hooks in him. I hate having become this cynical about my own government. So, I soaked in every word you have all written, and now have more to toss around in my head. May we all put as much enery & thought into the upcoming election. It is time for the Bush dynasty to end. Time for Junior to quit trying to compensate for everything daddy didn't get to finish. So, we now pray that Kerry can do better? Sheesh! I would much prefer Colin Powell. Too bad he is not an option.
As to Mr. Berg senior..who knows what this family is going thru..not only did they literally have to see their loved one beheaded, they also have to endure the media's blitz, and all of the public's suppositions. So...to the Berg family, I say May God Bless you and keep you sane thru all of this.
I cannot begin to imagine how I would feel were it one of my young adult sons.
So, is it time to dig in real deep and go for it as regards this war. Or...is it time to get our military(often 18 year old kids..which I find unconscionable), back home where they belong and F'n let the middle east all kill each other while we protect our own. I know this sounds awfully simplistic, but I need some hope. Maybe we could all start walking again..get rid of the obesity statistics in America, and say F**k the desert gas!
This is a good site, by the way.

Respectfully
(EM)passionate

I am incredibly embarrassed... (Below threshold)
jb:

I am incredibly embarrassed !..I kept trying to post and my computer kept giving me an error..and telling me I needed to try again..So..damnit..I did..again and again..every blasted time i got the error..and because I was idly waiting..I ket playing with my post..yanno?..finishing touches..
so..my deepest apologies to anyone who even bothered to read my second..third..fourth..fifth..etc!!!! I was not being a smart ass...I promise..OK..enough while i go hide under the covers somewhere!
Stupid computer!

Somebody mentioned the "Gil... (Below threshold)
Bairck:

Somebody mentioned the "Gilal" and I am sure that a whole bunch of people have done a google search and only found article related to the beheaiding of Berg. The reason is because it's not "Gilal" but "Galil". Dunno why everybody got the name wrong but anyway, here the pics of the Israel weapon greatly inspired of the AK-47: The GALIL
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as23-e.htm

None of the article seem to mention wich model though.

Somebody mentioned the "Gil... (Below threshold)
Bairck:

Somebody mentioned the "Gilal" and I am sure that a whole bunch of people have done a google search and only found article related to the beheaiding of Berg. The reason is because it's not "Gilal" but "Galil". Dunno why everybody got the name wrong but anyway, here the pics of the Israel weapon greatly inspired of the AK-47: The GALIL
http://world.guns.ru/assault/as23-e.htm

None of the article seem to mention wich model though.

An interesting thing just h... (Below threshold)
DJ Peace:

An interesting thing just happened this last week,
the head of the CIA, George Tenet(sp?) and his director of Foriegn Services just up and quite.

I think it was Wednesday/Thurdsady for Tenet and Friday for the Director.

On Saturday Reagan turns up died, and the crowd goes wild!

Even Meet the Press(Tim Russeert?) was smart enough to go with the Reagan story.

But its funny how Reagan, who owes a great deal to the CIA, after the "Iran-Contra Affair", decides to take one last one for the Gipper and up and croak!

You gotta admit 'they' have great timing... even Russert had someone on saying that even Reagan's adversaries have a grudging admiration for his skill.

If "sucking all the air" out of revelations is all 'they' have left, I think even 'they' are admitting 'they' are on the way out. The only question is whether 'plausible deniability', "I don't recall", and all their other oily, hoarse, cup-half-full bullshit will keep them out of jail.

Maybe Kerry will show some fucking backbone and not pardon anyone...

Well, I can at least hope, pray, and/or imagine. That's all about now from the Land of the Lost, Peace out,
DJPeaceonEarth

PS. To: passionate - Posted by: jb, I wouldn't strees the multiple posting thing. Above, you may notice the same happened to me.

I have this weird feelin... (Below threshold)
PriceWePay:

I have this weird feeling Berg volunteered to be beheaeded.

I have this weird feelin... (Below threshold)
PriceWePay:

I have this weird feeling Berg volunteered to be beheaeded.

I have this weird feelin... (Below threshold)
PriceWePay:

I have this weird feeling Berg volunteered to be beheaeded.

From the majority of commen... (Below threshold)
John:

From the majority of comments made here, one thing is certain; too many luxuries have created quite a few foolish minds.
Should you ever be in the position that Nick Berg found himself: knowing that you are about to be murdered, may you show the courage he showed.
Good Luck.




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