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Your logic does not resemble our Earth logic

If anyone has any doubts left that Michael Moore is a conspiracy-obsessed nutjob, here's an excerpt from a recent interview:

"...Anyway, the support Bush and the Republicans feign for Israel is because Israel is near our oil. If the oil wasn't there, I bet those same Republicans wouldn't (care) about Israel."

That's right. Those evil Bushistas are only after the oil. That's why they're so chummy with the one nation in the Middle East that 1) doesn't HAVE any oil, and B) is universally hated by those that have the oil. They're so cunning and diabolical...

J.


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Comments (28)

That was quite illogical.</... (Below threshold)
andrew r:

That was quite illogical.

That's actually unusually s... (Below threshold)

That's actually unusually sensible for Mikey -- it pegs the logic meter at a rousing 0.03%

Smokin'!

(Smokin' what, I don't know.)

This movie scares the hell ... (Below threshold)

This movie scares the hell out of you guys doesnt it?

Scares? No.Annoys ... (Below threshold)

Scares? No.

Annoys and angers? Absolutely. It's very frustrating to see a couple hours worth of outright lies and propaganda served up and accepted as gospel truth by people who purport to be critical and well-read thinkers.

It's annoying to see screed gobbled down without a single thought to whether what is being said is factual or not.

It makes a person want to go out at night with a lamp looking for an honest person in those movie lines.

This movie will scare the h... (Below threshold)

This movie will scare the heck out of me for the next three days....until Spiderman 2 comes out.

And all the talk about how influential this film is will pale in comparison to the $100 million Spiderman 2 will take in in its first weekend.

Sooo....yeah.

Seems that celebrity opinio... (Below threshold)
Mike:

Seems that celebrity opinion has become the new opiate of the masses, used to be organized religion's job. Nice to see the masses are branching out.

This movie scares the he... (Below threshold)

This movie scares the hell out of you guys doesnt it?

Seen it yet, Anderson? ;-)

aarrgh! Double C got here a... (Below threshold)

aarrgh! Double C got here ahead of me.

Hey, dumbass. The Arabs hav... (Below threshold)
Jeff:

Hey, dumbass. The Arabs have a shitload more oil than the Saudis. Don't you think if oil were the issue we'd allow them to kick the crap out of Israel?
Doesn't this guy ever get tired of hearing himself talk?
Wait. We all know the answer to that question.

By the way, when I was speaking to my liberal friends about Moore getting a free pass - and they were protesting that he wasn't, by the way - this is the kind of thing I was referring to.

No Bro, I have not seen it,... (Below threshold)

No Bro, I have not seen it, and probably wont until it comes out on DVD. This type of movie rarely makes it to Costa Rica, the theme just doesnt translate very well. But I may be wrong.
I am not a troll, and I do not raise such issues to start an argument, so if the insult brigade wants to get started, have at it.
My point is this. I have seen enough of the analysis of the film to know that there are concerns about accuracy, as well as the typical MM coloring of the truth through exageration and shrewd editing. Having said that, I believe that the constant slamming of the movie only helps MM. He has gotten more publicity from the talk of boycotts and conservative outrage than he ever would have for a documentary under normal circumstances. Moore is benefiting from Passion of the Christ Syndrom.
Now as far as the fear, yeah in my opinion it IS fear. Otherwise why bother, I would just laugh it off. The fear is that the message of the film will reasonate with those undecided Americans, fire up the Democratic and Liberal base, and perhaps even convince some fence sitters. ALL a possibility based on weekend box office and the response of the majority who have commented on the film after seeing it.
For me, not having seen the film, I can not comment on its voracity. I can only say that the tv spots advertising it are some of the most effective anti bush ads I have seen.
So you can get all pissed and shoot the messenger, (me), or you can come up with a reasonable and united response to the film. If I were a conservative blogger, I would see the film, take notes and then write a piece where I (IN DETAIL), dissect it and point out the lies and twisted truths. But I will share one thing with you, the scene that I have seen that fires me up more than any other, is Bush on the Golf Course joking about watching his swing after making an inspired comment about fighting terrorism. That 10 second spot frankly PISSES me off, and it is NOT a lie, nor taken out of context, it is our president being quite un-presidential in light of the seriousness of the theme. I cant help but to think that millions of Americans who have always seen Bush with his grave and serious face on over this issue, will likewise be affected.

Actually, I don't think MM ... (Below threshold)
BoDiddly:

Actually, I don't think MM is a "conspiracy-obsessed nutjob". I actually think he's a MONEY-obsessed nutjob. He's probably no more an "activist" at heart than the beer guy restocking the cooler at the local 7-11. I haven't seen F911, but after a close look at "Bowling", it's obvious that he's not working a particular agenda, but rather taking a "scatter-gun" approach in an attempt to outrage and offend as many people as possible. In this film, if he vilifies a) President Bush & family, b) Americans in general, c) Israelis (read=Jews), and d) big business & the "rich", he'll gain the following of a few moonbats, for sure, but he'll also generate revenue from all sectors. Reason--Anyone who has made any statements regarding this film is attacked with: "How can you criticize something you haven't seen?" So the left-wingers go to get ammo against Bush, and those who lean to the right go to get ammo against Moore. Outcome=MONEY FOR MOORE. Pure and simple, he's out to make money without any regard for his country or her citizens, the same action for which he crucifies "big business".

Does it concern me that many folks will blindly accept his lies as truth, without even attempting to verify any information? Not really. Folks who are that easily swayed politicaly have always been in the Dems' pockets.

So ok, if people think he's... (Below threshold)

So ok, if people think he's a money grubbing nut job or illogical, can someone please present some evidence that refutes what he presented in the movie? Please. I saw the movie. It didn't make me think he spoke the gospel. It made me want to search for even more information so that I can formulate a better opinion.

I find it amazing that as I read through blog, blogs written by what seem to be reasonable people, all people are doing is attacking the messenger, not the "message". I haven't seen anyone provided evidence to say that Bush isn't in bed with people who mean to do the country harm. I haven't seen anyone even acknowledge that poor people and minorities are often the ones targeted to join the military, fight wars and die for this country. Nor have any of the sites presented evidence to say the people of Florida were not screwed. Nor has anyone offered to refute Moore's claims about anyone in the Senate stepping up to bat for the people in Florida. Granted, I'm not at all saying that Moore's 100% on the mark.

And, how can any reasonable person make any statements about the validity of the movie if they haven't even seen said movie?

That's right, we can't poss... (Below threshold)
Jon:

That's right, we can't possibly form an opinion of a movie that has had publicity for months, including the tidbit that Mr Moore had withheld evidence so it would be seen in his movie first! How dare we interpolate based on evidence.
Ah, logic, she's a bitch, yeh.

I would just like to see so... (Below threshold)

I would just like to see someone answer her questions.

Maybe she just hasn't seen ... (Below threshold)

Maybe she just hasn't seen Hitchens' review. He's hardly a right-winger, and he has seen the movie.

Bro that review and Hitchen... (Below threshold)

Bro that review and Hitchens is far from the mainstream viewpoint of the film. There are some links on Drudge (As of yesterday), of the reviews it has gotten from both liberal and conservative press, and his take is far to the Right on anyone I have seen.

Anderson, please. Hitchens ... (Below threshold)

Anderson, please. Hitchens is a hard Leftie. He's way to the left of Ralph Nader for God's sake. The one thing he agrees with Bush, and disagrees most with Nader about, is the war on terror. Didn't you see his nasty column about Reagan?

Hitchens' review of this movie is not based on left vs. right politics. It's not based on politics at all, except for (as I discussed in our first conversation about Moore) the damage he's doing to the left with his lies and distortions.

I didn't offer Hitchens as a "mainstream viewpoint" -- I offered him as an example of a thinking leftist who abhors the film.

You need to quit wasting away in Margaritaville, my friend.

Queen:I was optimi... (Below threshold)
BoDiddly:

Queen:

I was optimistic when you said that the movie made you want to do more research . . . but the feeling passed rather quickly.

You'll notice that I explained that my opinion of F911 was extrapolated from my knowledge about "Bowling", so I'm dismissing your "any reasonable person" comment as either not directed at me, or simply baseless.

As to your questions/points:

1. Why is it unacceptable to "attack the messenger" when the messenger puts forth a message filled with lies and half-truths (in other words, MORE LIES) to further an agenda?

2. You ask why nobody has put forth evidence that "Bush isn't in bed with people who mean to do the country harm". There's a slight problem with logic there. You're asking for material proof of something that didn't exist. Consider a man accusing his wife of infidelity. There may or may not exist evidence of an affair, but she's hard-pressed to support his claim of nothing going on by producing "evidence".

3. ". . . poor people and minorities are often the ones targeted to join the military, fight wars and die for this country." (Ahem) "Targeted" to voluntarily enlist? I'm assuming you mean this in the same way that "rich, white folks" are "targeted" for college?? PLEASE!!!

4. "evidence that the people of Florida were not screwed" I could go back to the same "evidence of absence" argument. However, to address your concerns, may I remind you that it is the responsibility of the VOTER to make sure that his ballot is properly marked, and that if any voter is unsure of how to properly mark a ballot, it is the duty of that voter to ask for assistance which, by law, cannot be denied. An improperly marked ballot is invalid, and shouldn't be counted in any election. As for the accusations aimed at the Senate, the reason nobody "stepped up to bat" for Floridians is that the rule of law regarding the election was being followed.

My favorite "Mooreism" regarding "Bowling" has to be when he stated that every fact in the film is true. I suppose the same could be said of F911 . . . until someone can define what a "false fact" would be.

Wassup Bo?Look I am ... (Below threshold)

Wassup Bo?
Look I am not going to argue with most of your logic, as it has been pan fried enough today, and I need to get some work done. I will argue the florida thing though. It is not just about people who voted improperly, what tweaked me is all the Blacks there were not able to vote becuase they were labled "criminals." That is a fact and Florida lost a lawsuit on it. It is called disenfranchisement and it sucks.

David:Didn't mean ... (Below threshold)
BoDiddly:

David:

Didn't mean to so directly touch a nerve, buddy, but I was doing exactly what you said nobody had done---answering Queen's questions.

The Florida election was more closely scrutinized than any in recent history, and the "if's" always enter into discussion of the outcome. As to the disenfranchisement question--had there been any shred of evidence of racially-biased voter roll tampering, there would have been a criminal case, not a civil case leading to a settlement. It would be easier to sneak an elephant onto an airplane than for a state in the South to do such a thing with the level of Federal scrutiny as Florida had through the aftermath of the election.

The damage done by the 2000 election was felt by both parties. Voters from both camps, I think, were left feeling quite intimidated at the concept of lawyers more directly influencing the outcome after the fact than did the voters on election day. I sincerely hope that we don't ever see a repeat of the same scenario.

Bo, as we say in spanish, n... (Below threshold)

Bo, as we say in spanish, no te preocupes. (Dont worry), I was not upset by your post at all. It was the usual intelligent stuff I have come to expect from you, but I still disagree. This is where I got my information. Feel free to discredit it if you can:
I got the information from Greg Palast. For some reason I cant post the link here.

McGehee Trying to... (Below threshold)
Paul:

McGehee

Trying to reason with Anderson is like reasoning with a frog.

He's spent too much time in the son. He is just a crazy dirtbag hater. Ignore him that's what he hates worst of all.

P

Paul, for the record. I don... (Below threshold)

Paul, for the record. I dont hate anyone. And I try to keep my comments here civil. Sorry you feel that way. And McGehee, I very much respect yours, Kevin's , Bo's Jay's and Boyd's opinion. I would like to think that despite our differences, we are all friends and Americans entitled to our opinions. And It is SUN Paul, not son. I have never spent time in anyone's SON.

I have never spent time ... (Below threshold)
Boyd:

I have never spent time in anyone's SON.

Hehe.

He is just a crazy dirtb... (Below threshold)

He is just a crazy dirtbag hater.

Hater? I don't get that. Dirtbag? That either. Crazy?

Okay, the jury's still out -- but one could say the same for any of us. ;-)

Thanks Bro. And Crazy I wil... (Below threshold)

Thanks Bro. And Crazy I will admit to, at least at times. Hehe. That picture of Paige Davis Kevin put up has me a little crazy right now. She can be my "son," any damned time she wants.

However important the issue... (Below threshold)

However important the issues and ideas may be, it costs me nothing that any given other person has a difference of opinion with me.

But as for wanting a woman to be your "son" -- dude, that's just wrong.

LMAO! I was joking, since P... (Below threshold)

LMAO! I was joking, since Paul seems to have boys on the mind. All you need to do is look at my Blog to tell I am HE MAN personified. But I didnt want to let my aggitated friend off the hook. But Dayum... Paige is looking pretty tasty. I have never been into those stupid home improvement shows before, but I think I need to watch more often.
And YOU knew what I mean. (Laughing out Loud).




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