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Kerry Admits Purple Heart wound self-inflicted - Chris Matthews Surrenders (?)

From Drudge:

Kerry's campaign now says is possible first Purple Heart was awarded for unintentional self-inflicted wound...

Kerry received Purple Heart for wounds suffered on 12/2/68...

In Kerry's own journal written 9 days later, he writes he and his crew, quote, 'hadn't been shot at yet'... Developing...

This has been all over the blogosphere for weeks. If the campaign really said this, John Kerry is done.

Drudge is also reporting:

FLASH: 'SWIFT BOAT VETERANS FOR TRUTH' RAISED $1,764,000 IN DONATIONS ON WEBSITE IN PAST 2 WEEKS, SOURCES TELL DRUDGE...

I think the word I'm looking for is- heh.


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Comments (48)

"If the campaign really sai... (Below threshold)

"If the campaign really said this, John Kerry is done."

That is very doubtable. Self inflicted wound vs. self inflicted coke/alcohol habit. I think the coke/alcohol habit is a bigger damage.

What about wearing possible unearned medals? I think that might be worse then earning a medal for a circumstance most cant understand.

It's getting to you huh Nit... (Below threshold)
Paul:

It's getting to you huh Nitro?

Yeah, nitroburn, why not tr... (Below threshold)
meep:

Yeah, nitroburn, why not try something =new=? (Oh, right, Kerry is running on a biog detail from before I was born... I guess new isn't "in" right now.)

I don't think that rumors about W's substance abuse are going to help now any more than they did 4 years ago. You need to find a different tack. I suggest: BUSH LIED, PEOPLE DIED! That certainly seems popular now.

Not really, just saw the po... (Below threshold)

Not really, just saw the post and thought I would point out that there is no way this could be a 'finisher'. There is too much ammo left for both sides. I'm glad you took this oppertunity to attempt to pat yourself on the back though.

The whole war record issue is having both sides being laughed at. Hell, in 1996 one of the swift boat liars stood beside john kerry and said he was, "highly courageous in the face of enemy fire." He noted, Kerry dodged sniper fire to save a colleague

Hey Nitro, John Kerry choos... (Below threshold)
Jim Price:

Hey Nitro, John Kerry choose to run with Vietnam as a centerpiece. Whatever the fallout, he brought it on himself.

Yes, George Bush admittedly had a serious substance abuse problem in the past. So did I, Nitro, and so did a staggering percentage of the earths population before me.

So tell us, what's the connection you're trying to make? Or is this just the tantrum of a crybaby who kneejerks first, and thinks later?

Well, 'Bush lied and people... (Below threshold)
nitroburn:

Well, 'Bush lied and people died' is the mantra more people believe then 'Mission accomplished'. I'm sorry, was that too long ago also?

meep: i'm not really sure why one should be concerned by what is 'in' when making their own observations. That could possibly add to a bias.

The coke use may have only been from people who know him, but his alcohol use is a fact. even after the point he said he stopped drinking.

"You get up there on a national television show and you say without a shred of proof that a decorated war veteran inflicted his own wounds. This doesn't make you "controversial" or "colorful." This makes you nuts. It ought to disqualify you forever from the company of serious people, and from the society of the decent ones. And you can still get a job with Fox News."
--Charles Pierce

I like ya Nitro -- No matte... (Below threshold)
Paul:

I like ya Nitro -- No matter how many time you strike out, you just keep swinging that bat.

I admire that actually.

----Hey Nitro, John ... (Below threshold)
nitroburn:

----
Hey Nitro, John Kerry choose to run with Vietnam as a centerpiece. Whatever the fallout, he brought it on himself.
----
So you mean never once did the RNC suggest focusing on Kerrys war record? And what fallout? Accusations do not make truth.

----
Yes, George Bush admittedly had a serious substance abuse problem in the past. So did I, Nitro, and so did a staggering percentage of the earths population before me.
----
Ok, so don't pretend it didn't happen. That is a sign he has NOT overcome the problem. One of the first steps is admitting you have a problem.
----
So tell us, what's the connection you're trying to make? Or is this just the tantrum of a crybaby who kneejerks first, and thinks later?
----
It was a comparison to the impact of such an accusation. Obviously you have heard the charge before, i know bringing it up is nothing new and it will have no real impact.

the unearned purple heart accusation comes from a lady who had provided no credable evidence to support her claim. propping it up here is the same as propping up the cocaine habit accusation. So what was the intended reaction of posing this self inflicted purple heart rumor? some sort of kneejerk reaction?

Not really, just saw the po... (Below threshold)

Not really, just saw the post and thought I would point out that there is no way this could be a 'finisher'. There is too much ammo left for both sides. I'm glad you took this oppertunity to attempt to pat yourself on the back though.

The whole war record issue is having both sides being laughed at. Hell, in 1996 one of the swift boat liars stood beside john kerry and said he was, "highly courageous in the face of enemy fire." He noted, Kerry dodged sniper fire to save a colleague

Like anyone with any maturi... (Below threshold)
-S-:

Like anyone with any maturity or wisdom says:

It's not what substance you used and abused, it's that you aren't using and abusing the substance(s) now.

People respect someone who arrives at sobriety and stops using and abusing. That they used to but stopped is lost on, mostly, people who are still using and exercise the subliminal substance abuse excuse that those who are sober are to be denigrated. You know, the "it's all black and gloomy" crowd.

Bush's sobriety is in his credit and isn't something to be ashamed of or apologized for. He's obviously managing sobriety very well and appears happy in his life.

About Kerry's problems, however, there is a far graver problem at hand because HE IS IN THE PROCESS OF BEING DISCOVERED TO BE SOMEONE HE IS NOT, OR IS BUT HAS WORKED TO HIDE OR EVEN RECREATE.

If Kerry suddenly stands up and announces that he's, presto, sober and all the past stories up to today are lies based upon substance abuse, then that's something to think about.

But, rather, in Kerry's case, it appears that the lies are not due to substance abuse but to mentality. As in, psychiatric issues. He appears to have created for public availability a "personna" that he considers to be this "John Kerry, the war hero" and "John Kerry, the heroic Senator" and the like, while the truth about the real person, coming out in contrary stories and information, proves that he's created, more or less, a role to play that he thinks/thought was what would get him from one place to another (and that destination appears to be the Presidency, in Kerry's mind from a while ago -- which also identifies the motive for Kerry's script, otherwise called "delusions" by some).

Kerry's being found out in the realm of public opinion and I am now thinking that because of these secrets, this contrariness between the personna he's created and the reality of his life, that this is why his years in the Senate have been quite so withheld from the public. I do believe he's been working to remain out of the public discourse, to protect his created personna from review...well, now it's being reviewed.

And so, to my perspective, this recent exposure about who Kerry actually is, is astoundingly shocking. But if he announces tomorrow that he's realized he has a substance abuse problem and is now sober, I'd also not encourage anyone to vote for him in that new found sobriety, but to give him time to balance out.

Nothing worse than someone who has lied about who he is and was -- indicates irresponsibility and unreliability to others. Nothing stronger than a person admitting their problems and honing up to them despite the risks -- indicates responsibility for oneself.

"It's not what substance yo... (Below threshold)
nitroburn:

"It's not what substance you used and abused, it's that you aren't using and abusing the substance(s) now.
People respect someone who arrives at sobriety and stops using and abusing."

Yes, but he lied when said he has stopped drinking. He has been shown on tape drunk and rambling. since 'quitting'.

"I like ya Nitro -- No matt... (Below threshold)
nitroburn:

"I like ya Nitro -- No matter how many time you strike out, you just keep swinging that bat.
I admire that actually."

Ok, keep patting your own back but i'm not swinging a bat, i'm swinging a hockey stick. And how have I struck out?

Don't usually those who strike out go back to the pen?

And how have I struck ou... (Below threshold)

And how have I struck out?

Well, for one thing, it isn't hockey season.

Nitro- I hate to burst your... (Below threshold)
Paul:

Nitro- I hate to burst your bubble when you are having sooo much fun. But consider these facts please.

1) The fact Bush had a drinking problem was well known before the last election.

2) He won anyway.

3) Four years later, people won't suddenly become outraged over it and Vote for Kerry.

I can tell you are having fun but you are completely wasting your time.

Paul

BTW- I'm not busting your chops because, frankly, I'm enjoying watching the freak show. -- But in the future, if you want to make an allegation that Bush continued to drink after he finished rehab, you either need to provide a link (a credible link, you can't link to yourself saying it in another comment section like some nut case tried last week) or I'll delete it with a good heart.

Have fun, but if you start saying things you can't back up, I pull the plug.

Paul:1) Ok, whats yo... (Below threshold)
nitroburn:

Paul:
1) Ok, whats your point? John kerry being a war hero was known back in 1996.
2) he won? thats debatable
3) wasn't my intention.

I really don't care who you vote for, i'm not even an american citizen. I'm just making observations from what I have read and heard. I do believe that John Kerry is the lesser of two evils though.

You haven't seen the bush drunk video? Its all over the internet. Even heavy.com has it on their site. http://www.thesmokinggun.com/bush/

"The Republican's wacky performance in this 1992 wedding video excerpt--shot years after Bush went cold turkey in July 1986--needs to be preserved for future generations. "

There is my proof. Is my accusation ok now?

Bush went to rehab? From what i know he went cold turkey.

Two things I'm surprised Pa... (Below threshold)
Pete:

Two things I'm surprised Paul didn't hit at in this piece:


1. WHY is Kerry changing course now? Was it a polling issue and too many people are believing the SwiftVets? Was it Dole? Or is there something else coming down the pipe that Kerry's hoping to blunt?

2. To the best of my knowledge, which is, admittedly, not strong in this area -- aren't self-inflicted wounds inelligible for purple hearts? If so, wouldn't that qualify as "unearned"? (Which Nitro has already decided is "worse then [sic] earning a medal for a circumstance most cant understand")


So whatcha think, Paul? Got thoughts on either of those one way or the other?

Pete, ya must not be readin... (Below threshold)
Paul:

Pete, ya must not be reading me enough.

I've said for days the Kerry had polls that the ads are killing him. Public polls have since backed that prediction up. (just surf wizbang including comments)

The ads are killing Kerry EOD.

And Yes, a Purple Heart but be caused by the enemy in combat.

If it comes out he claimed a bogus purple heart to get out of Vietnam, that whole "I'm John Kerry reporting for duty" thing goes up in smoke.

nitro: unless you've actua... (Below threshold)
-S-:

nitro: unless you've actually been there and smelled the smells, sipped the liquids in Bush's glass, it's a waste of time to speculate that Bush shown acting up or whatever with a glass in his hand, is using/abusing, it's impossible to know.

I doubt that he was acting up due to alcohol, however. And it's all speculation, anyway, unless Bush is caught with a Jim Beam fifth hanging in his hand, dribbling it all over the Rose Garden, it is useless projection only to try to suggest that Bush is using/abusing just because he's been "photographed" enjoying himself.

So, I'm discarding your entire speculation here. Send me a photograph of Bush AND YOU sharing a drink at a bar and Bush's blood alcohol test results with a positive result indicated, and then I'll take you seriously. Unless you can do that, you might as well write that you had lunch on the moon today and it was really cheddar cheese and not Bleu.

#2. First it has to be show... (Below threshold)

#2. First it has to be shown to actually be some proof behind it being UNINTENTIONALLY self-inflicted. Now, with bob dole there is proof he hit himself with a grenade.
now i must backup my accusations.

talkingpointsmemo:

"In a 1988 campaign-trail autobiography, here's how Dole described the incident that earned him his first Purple Heart: "As we approached the enemy, there was a brief exchange of gunfire. I took a grenade in hand, pulled the pin, and tossed it in the direction of the farmhouse. It wasn't a very good pitch (remember, I was used to catching passes, not throwing them). In the darkness, the grenade must have struck a tree and bounced off. It exploded nearby, sending a sliver of metal into my leg--the sort of injury the Army patched up with Mercurochrome and a Purple Heart."
-- Josh Marshall

Does bob dole deserve his purple heart?

Paul:I don't keep a ... (Below threshold)
Pete:

Paul:
I don't keep a perfect recollection of everything you've written here on wizbang photgraphically etched into my brain. My humblest apologies.

Nevertheless, just because the polls are showing the Swifties' ads are doing well doesn't mean at all that that's the cause of this, so instead of just ASSUMING what you thought was the cause I thought maybe I'd ask... next time I guess I'll just assume.

-s-i'm so glad you g... (Below threshold)
nitroburn:

-s-
i'm so glad you give bush the benifit of the doubt.

I hope you have done the same for Kerry and his record. I still have yet to see proof kerry injured himself on purpose.

I don't keep a perfect r... (Below threshold)
Paul:

I don't keep a perfect recollection of everything you've written here on wizbang photgraphically etched into my brain. My humblest apologies.

Well do better next time dammit!

next time I guess I'll just assume.

As long as you write that assuME and not assUme I'm ok with it.

Nitro- If what you say is t... (Below threshold)
Paul:

Nitro- If what you say is true, -I'm really just too lazy to follow the links- then no Dole did not earn that PH.

So you convinced me.. I'm not voting for Dole in November!

Nitro- If what you say is t... (Below threshold)
Paul:

Nitro- If what you say is true, -I'm really just too lazy to follow the links- then no Dole did not earn that PH.

So you convinced me.. I'm not voting for Dole in November!

"there is no way this could... (Below threshold)
Nunzio:

"there is no way this could be a 'finisher'"

-nitroburn

Agreed. The point is that Bush has effitively called into question the distinguishment of being a decorated war veteran. Kerry's service is now an obstacle not an aid in contrasting Bush's lack of service in the military.

Most importantly, this has distrated Kerry from effectively criticizing Bush and deliniating the differences between the two candidates. The question of "What does Kerry stand for" is left unanswered and I feel that without that question being addressed the country will vote for somebody the candidate with 'conviction' and a clear vision.

Kerry needs to get back and focus on the issues rather than defend himself and the events 36 years ago. I believe that nobody will know the truth to those events. In fact I just don't care. Stuck in Vietnam Kerry is failing to define himself as a candidate-- a failure that he can only blame on himself.

Alioto

"Nothing worse than someone... (Below threshold)

"Nothing worse than someone who has lied about who he is and was -- indicates irresponsibility and unreliability to others. Nothing stronger than a person admitting their problems and honing up to them despite the risks -- indicates responsibility for oneself."

That is SOOOOOO true, now if Bush would just admit his DUI, tell us where he was while suppossedly on Guard duty, admit there were no WMD's... The world would be a better place... Ya think?

Individuals wounded or k... (Below threshold)

Individuals wounded or killed as a result of "friendly fire" in the "heat of battle" will be awarded the Purple Heart as long as the "friendly" projectile or agent was released with the full intent of inflicting damage or destroying enemy troops or equipment.

If you miss and your grenade bounces off a barn, you can still qualifiy for a purple heart. If you pick up a souvenier grenade and it blows your arm off, you don't.

rats, typo'd a tag... (Below threshold)
SaraW:

rats, typo'd a tag

Thank you for the correctio... (Below threshold)

Thank you for the correction.

So I can now safely assume Kerry deserved the purple heart unless it is proven he injured himself without full intent to inflict damage on the enemy. As per the record.

big thing you are both miss... (Below threshold)
Paul:

big thing you are both missing. There must be enemy fire. There was none in Kerry's case.

So Nitro you really stuck out.

Kerry did not deserve his PH but according to the link, Dole did.

thank you for playing.

P

I'm still not voting for him.

i don't care if you vote fo... (Below threshold)

i don't care if you vote for him paul. I'm not even voting for him. well, i can't vote for him.

I wish it wasn't john kerry running against bush, i'd rather have clinton the draft dodger down there ;)

If you're referring to Kerr... (Below threshold)
Gary B.:

If you're referring to Kerry's Dec 2, purple heart, and he came foward and admitted it, I'm guessing he also has admitted he wasn't under fire either.

The real problem is 9 days later on Dec 11, he wrote in his diary that "his crew was getting ready to go out on their mission and they were feelin' cocky, because soldiers In Vietnam who hadn't been shot at yet are allowed to be cocky"

Nitroburn, quit fucking up ... (Below threshold)

Nitroburn, quit fucking up my comment section with long text links that don't work. I put an URL link button there and HTML can be hand coded. Use them...

You leave me with two choices - edit your posts or delete them. Do that shit again and they will be deleted.

Sure thing there kevin. Tha... (Below threshold)

Sure thing there kevin. Thanks for asking nicely.

now if Bush would just a... (Below threshold)

now if Bush would just admit his DUI,

He did, David. Four years ago. If you'd been in the country at the time you'd know that.

"i'd rather have clinton... (Below threshold)
Jim Price:

"i'd rather have clinton the draft dodger down there."- Now that's enlightening. Is that how half of America weighs in on how they'll vote? No wonder this country's so screwed up.

Jim Price, im not from your... (Below threshold)

Jim Price, im not from your country but as a 3rd party observer I rate clinton over bush any day.

nitoburn, you seemed to mis... (Below threshold)

nitoburn, you seemed to miss a crucial point.

Kerry MIGHT have qualified for a purple heart from a self-inflicted wound, if he were in the *heat of battle*, engaging the enemy. But only if.

His first medal is unearned because the injury did not occur in the heat of battle.

The rice shrapnel incident by itself would not qualify even though he was busting up something of the enemies, because there was no battle and no egagement of enemy forces.


Dole et al were engaging the enemy in combat.

for clarity - 1st heart and... (Below threshold)
SarahW:

for clarity - 1st heart and butt are two separate injury claims. Someone might think I was talking about a single incident.

Why is it that those who ca... (Below threshold)
Lisa:

Why is it that those who can't (or in some cases just won't) vote are the ones who feel the need to spend ALL their time trashing our President? Do you have nothing more constructive to do? Like, perhaps, studying for the citizenship test so you can vote and put a point to your incessant bitching? Just askin'...

There's another important q... (Below threshold)
Peter:

There's another important question about that first PH. What does it say about the judgement of a man who runs up and down in enemy (?) territory shooting when there is no incoming fire? Aside from the obvious fact that the supply of ammunition carried is limited, no matter how big the unit, and any ammunition expended when there is no incoming is not available for when there is, there's the added problem of hitting yourself with your own damned ricochetes or shrapnel. There is also the minor problem of noise. It's not like any of the boats conventional forces, as opposed to the sneaky petes, would sneak up on very many bad guys but the more noise one makes the more time the bad guy has to either beat feet or to lock n load.
No matter how we cut it, shooting when there is nothing to shoot at, except in very limited circumstances, is stupid.
Almost as stupid as running as a war hero when one has done more, perhaps, than any other single human being to present every single other veteran of your war as a murderer and rapist.
It's one thing, poor judgement, in your mid-twenties. It's quite another to think that every veteran has forgotten. It's hard to forget when our children come home from school and have been taught Kerry's 'testimony' as fact.
You haven't seen anything yet, the Swifties and POWs are just the beginning. The Medal of Honor Veterans are chiming in. Now you're hearing from men like me, ordinary people who spent one or more tours in that war, who lost friends there, only to have them slandered by a liar, for political gain.
Thirty-three years ago we didn't have a voice, the internet didn't exist, the mainstream media had their story. Just because it was a story of one officer that surrounded himself with 'veterans' making accusations that none, not one of them would repeat under oath, even when promised immunity. "Veterans" whom, we were later to find had in many cases, spent NOT ONE DAY IN SOUTHEAST ASIA.
Sorry, this fight is on. It's just beginning. It's not about George W. Bush for me, it's not about the Presidency. It's about men that I still dream about some nights, men who came home from a war they did not start in aluminum boxes. Men who were slandered by a lying sack of shit. Men who deserve their honor back. Men who have families who deserve to know that their sons and brothers, fathers and uncles, were not rapists and murdering goons.
It, most of all isn't about who some foreigner wants to see in the White House.

You mean one of Kerry's Pur... (Below threshold)

You mean one of Kerry's Purple Hearts are in dispute? Wait, Bush's service record is in dispute. Yes, Kerry actually went to Vietnam, Bush took the chicken across the street to get to the other side. Just maybe Kerry only deserved two of his three Purple Hearts. Bush never served in Vietnam. Period!

According to the military, ... (Below threshold)
Chad:

According to the military, purple hearts can be awarded by self-inflicting wounds if you are in enemy fire. According to Kerry's own journal and biography, the incident in question for his first purple heart was not in the line of enemy fire. It was nine days after this incident that Kerry saw his first taste of enemy fire.

For this reason, Dole deserved the purple heart and Kerry did not. It's taking Kerry's own documentation and approved biography into account with the military's own definition of the purple heart.

http://www.purpleheart.org

R.C. Moron "...Bush took th... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

R.C. Moron "...Bush took the chicken across the street to get to the other side."

I love the way some people smear National Guard service.

Let me see if I'm following... (Below threshold)

Let me see if I'm following: Kerry's first Purple Heart was from firing his rifle at a too-close rock, thereby self-inflicted (I'm leaving out the "enemy fire" debate intentionally for the point I'm headed for).

Another Purple Heart (Kerry's third) was awarded for a wound to the left buttocks (rice & shrapnel) from a grenade thrown into a pile of rice, also self-inflicted. (I know there was also a "contusion" to the arm from a mine blast, but a contusion is a bruise--hardly purple-heart material)

Three Purple Hearts, two self-inflicted (by Kerry's roundabout admission, no less). Anyone should recognize that Kerry is either a klutz or he had a particular agenda for his tour of duty.

Right BoDiddly. And rememb... (Below threshold)
Bill M:

Right BoDiddly. And remember folks, there is no evidence there was a second mine (which could cause Kerry to be thrown against something and bruised). More likely, when he made his high-speed turn to go back and pick up Jim Rassman, he bounced off something in the wheelhouse, causing the bruise.

And also a point to remember, the rice butt wound is cited as having ocurred during the rescue of Rassman. We know it did not, from both Rassman and Kerry. Therefore that third Purple Heart was not justified, and more importantly, the Kerry's version of the incident is therefore false. And this is before we even address the lack of enemy fire on the river during the entire incident. How do we know there was none? The Swift Boats stayed in place for an hour and a half recovering the #3 boat with no casualties and no damage from enemy gunfire. Ergo, no grounds for the Purple Heart again.


What exactly is that smokin... (Below threshold)
mcg:

What exactly is that smokinggun video supposed to prove? Bush sounds drunk all the time as it is.

Why has no one brought up t... (Below threshold)
Tom Changle:

Why has no one brought up the numerous items he voted against while serving in congress, yet suddenly seems to support with his campaign. What about the interview with I believe the national autoworks saying he owned like 8 suv's, then later when a reporter that was at this meeting showed up at an enviro meeting and called Kerry out because he was bashing suv's, I believe his response was ,"Well I dont own the suv's my family does." Sometimes the best candidate is the person that isnt scared to admit his thoughts and if needed bust some balls. Kerry is a lifetime politician, that cares for nothing but the power and title. I would rather have Clinton in there again than see Kerry take the office. At least we knew Clinton's angle. Cigars and Fat chicks.




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