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Bush Vs. Kerry - Round 3

I thought this was going to be a domestic policy debate...

Semi-Live Blogging

Gay Marriage

So far neither candidate is particularly impressive. Both Kerry and Edwards have an obsessive need to mention that Dick Cheney's daughter is a lesbian.

Abortion/Catholic Issues

Faith without works quote from Kerry. Too bad his deeds don't match his words. Bush talks of culture of life. Neither is more impressive than the other.

I must note that Bob Schieffer is doing an excellent job of staying away from Bush or Kerry softballs.

La Shawn Barber notes that I sound jaded, and she's not wrong... I'm not hearing anything from either candidate. I'm calling this one a draw after 30 minutes... That's probably worse news for Kerry than Bush, since he is widely expected to do better on the domestic issues. I don't expect any knockdowns in this format...

Medical Costs

Bush actually stakes some new ground noting the lack of IT. Kerry restates is issues from previous debates. It's still pretty good material, it's just not new.

HEY BUSH GOT IN A FUNNY KNOCK AT CBS!!! "With all due respect, I'm not sure quoted leading media organizations..."

Social Security

Bush talks of Personal savings accounts. Kerry calls personal savings accounts a disaster. Kerry won't cut benefits. Bob Schieffer wonders if Kerry is smoking crack when he says there won't be some adjustment in benefits or delaying start time - Kerry says "no". Bush says Kerry voted to tax social security. Bush FINALLY sums up the economics of the recession and the tax cuts in good short forcefully statements.

Border Security

Bush pushes for his temporary worker card. He's right about people coming for higher wages and taking pressure off the borders. Kerry says the borders are less secure. Man I'm bored...

Minimum Wage

Kerry wants a $7 an hour minimum wage. He says 15 million would benefit, the question is how many would be laid off? Bush comes alive, "reading is the new civil right."

Roe vs. Wade

Bush - no litmus test. Kerry - litmus test. Then it just wandered. Kerry committed a telling slip of the tonger. "I appoint judges who uphold the court provided, [corrects himself] constitutional rights [he proceeds to lists a few]..."

Conclusions

Zzzzzzzzz. I change my prediction that the debate is a draw, and I now declare that the winner is Ralph Nader...

OK so the winner isn't Nader, it's whoever is ahead in the next set of polls. My suspicion is that there will be no movement in the polls over the next few days, which of course means it's a draw. It was a greatest hits collection from the first two debates.

Update: As Allah is likely decamped at Yankee Stadium, as his normal debate coverage is AWOL. John Hawkins has been rounding up recactions from around the conservative side of the 'shpere. There's a load of trackbacks to below to follow as well...


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Comments (32)

Perhaps its all about the n... (Below threshold)
epador:

Perhaps its all about the numbers: a Math Debate?

Bush noted that Mrs. Kerry ... (Below threshold)
Sean:

Bush noted that Mrs. Kerry supports abstinence... and I say, who can blame her?

Kerry: "I will fight to st... (Below threshold)
epador:

Kerry: "I will fight to stop outsourcing"

Kerry: "I will raise the minimum wage."


It don't add up to me.

Tax cuts have been proven o... (Below threshold)
Dan:

Tax cuts have been proven over and over to raise the economy for everyone. Tax increases have been proven over and over again to repress and depress economies around the world. The gains are on the margins I say give the max benefit to the margins... the vast majority.

Kerry is a great BS'er for ... (Below threshold)
Branna:

Kerry is a great BS'er for sure. The way I see it, he plays to the current fears Americans may have while Bush is a visionary with his agenda.

It makes you wonder if people are willing to throw away their future & the future of their children for a few crumbs right now. Not to say that Kerry will deliver but it makes for a great sound bite.

Now its a revival meeting.<... (Below threshold)
epador:

Now its a revival meeting.

I ove the way the cameras a... (Below threshold)
epador:

I ove the way the cameras are adjusted to keep W from looking shorter then K == he also looms bigger on the screen!

W listens to Laura, wonder ... (Below threshold)
epador:

W listens to Laura, wonder what K will say...

res ipsa locquitor</... (Below threshold)
epador:

res ipsa locquitor

Wife just said that Bush gu... (Below threshold)
OneDrummer:

Wife just said that Bush gushed about Laura, and Kerry just .... didn't. She said, you can tell he doesn't love her like W loves Laura.

Women are so much smarter than men....

Johnny Four Months: ... (Below threshold)

Johnny Four Months: Pathetic! ... No knowledge of AK-47's or STOP LOSS Program.

President Bush: Pandered to the ILLEGAL BORDER CROSSER voter ...

The split screed sucked... as it did in Debate I. ...

More importantly, the Yankees will win!

Dubya's response on his rel... (Below threshold)
Rodney Dill:

Dubya's response on his religious beliefs and on the women in his life were sincere and made him seem very personal and real. Kerry's response was stumbling and rather wooden, much like the Bush lumber he wanted to buy. This short segment of the debate, especially near the end will have more impact on the result of the debate than much of the substance discussed.

I was going to look at the ... (Below threshold)
Jim:

I was going to look at the online polls on ABC, CBS, CNN, etc. websites, but I won't bother since the DNC has people pumping up the numbers to make it look as if Kerry won the debate overwhelmingly. Problem is that these news organizations behave as if they don't know this is going on. I just wish Bush, Cheney and the Republicans would just grow a pair of balls and nail Kerry-Edwards once and for all. It seems the Republican babes are the ones with the balls. Even on Fox News when they have DNC and RNC strategists, it seems as if only the female RNC strategists go for the jugular.

If there was a big error ma... (Below threshold)
Doug Book:

If there was a big error made in this debate, it was by Kerry in turning a question about faith and religion into a political "if I'm elected" answer. The media will not even mention this, but I'll be willing to bet that many of the religious right who avoided the polls 4 years ago will be offended by that transition. Bush answered it well. He was obviously sincere. Kerry was obviously a politician.

The President started well ... (Below threshold)
neils:

The President started well then fell apart. He does better as a challenger than he does as the incumbent. You could see in his eyes that he knew that he was losing the debate. Does this mean he will lose the election? Not at all, there is a long way to go. Nonetheless, the President did not help himself tonight.

I think <a href="http://www... (Below threshold)

I think this says it all.

I love how Kerry is going t... (Below threshold)

I love how Kerry is going to stop terrorists at the border by making them submit to retina scans and fingerprint ID machines. Yeah, sure. Like they're going to come through a check point. What a maroon.

He was so 70s. So 20th century. Tax cuts for the rich, take guns from people, socialized medicine, more government programs, blah blah blah

It's hilarious how similar Kerry is to a Soviet. He has all these plans.

I love how the MSM keeps po... (Below threshold)
Rocketman:

I love how the MSM keeps pounding the poll numbers to state a case for Kerry. I found this link on a Libb blog site that is very interesting. Do these people have ass wiping seminars also? Drink the Kool-Aid, and tell all your friends too.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1055430

MSNBC DECLARES KERRY READY ... (Below threshold)
DBub:

MSNBC DECLARES KERRY READY TO LEAD, no wait that's a paid commerical.

Immediately following this evening's Presidential debate MSNBC ran a paid advertisement endorsing Kerry for president. When did they start selling ads that pretend to be legit news stories?

http://homepage.mac.com/dbub/PhotoAlbum3.html

Maybe we should rent the si... (Below threshold)
julie:

Maybe we should rent the sign in Yankee Stadium and have it flash: Allah, phone home.

- Thing I'm hearing from th... (Below threshold)
Hunter:

- Thing I'm hearing from the 300 or so people I touched base with after the debate was Kerry's mention of Cheneys daughter made them all flinch and squirm ... again...(Edwards made the same stupid gaffe ...)...neither made a point....just trailed off and looked mean spirited and petty in even mentioning it...

- again Kerry looked like he had hemoroids when the abortion issue came up....and again Bush body slammed him....

- Sometimes one or two turns of phrase can hang with a Candidate like a impacted tooth...

- Overall Bush on style AND substance...

- Teh-raaay-zah makes that old joke about "costing a fortune to look that slutty" really come to life...

- Kerry didn't mention her in response to the "ladies" question.... Is the bloom off the thornplant already?....Only a single reference that could be interpeted as "Hell yes shes got a pile of money....think I'd sleep with that if she didn't)...

- Bottom line... a liberal Senator debating a sitting President.... nolo contendro

I started snoring through i... (Below threshold)
firstbrokenangel:

I started snoring through it - why bother having 3 debates when the first one covered what the next two did????? Someone else watching it in my living room told me as I walked by that Kerry never answers a question - that what he does is talk about what Bush just said and what does that have to do with the question that was posted at the bottom of the screen whereas Bush answered the question and stuck with that. me? I couldn't bother listening to the same bullshit for the third time, so watched a movie.
~C

KERRY: Six months after he ... (Below threshold)
Rance:

KERRY: Six months after he said Osama bin Laden must be caught dead or alive, this president was asked, "Where is Osama bin Laden?"
He said, "I don't know. I don't really think about him very much. I'm not that concerned."

BUSH: Gosh, I just don't think I ever said I'm not worried about Osama bin Laden.
It's kind of one of those exaggerations.


BUSH 3/13/2002

You know, I just don't spend that much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you.

...
Q But don't you believe that the threat that bin Laden posed won't truly be eliminated until he is found either dead or alive?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, as I say, we haven't heard much from him. And I wouldn't necessarily say he's at the center of any command structure. And, again, I don't know where he is. I -- I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him.


I guess it's one of those subtlties between "not that worried" and "not that concerned".


Not a good move to deny something to that's on the White House web site and on video tape at all the networks. Didn't take CNN long to put the two pieces of tape together.


uhhhh! I think Kerry won. B... (Below threshold)

uhhhh! I think Kerry won. By a landslide. Most of the polls of undecided voters are showing a 2-to-1 win in favor of Kerry. Black and white.

I agree Rance that the pres... (Below threshold)
Rodney Dill:

I agree Rance that the president made a verbal blunder in that he didn't remember his previous comment. But I do remember the original comment in March 2002 and the Context of the discussion. Bin Laden had been removed from free reign in a Taliban controlled Afganistan and Al Qaeda operations were disrupted and depleted. Bush has never given up on finding Bin Laden, but at that point in time he (bin laden) did not represent the level of threat that he once did. I do believe that given the time involved that he (bin laden, not bush) may once again be a growing menace.

The context of the debate that Kerry was trying to portray was that Al Qaeda and Bin Laden's presence in Afghanistan were not a priority or a concern at all, which Kerry could not succeed in making a case for, as the US has not given up the search.

It's not the context, it's ... (Below threshold)
Rance:

It's not the context, it's 1) the denial and 2) the insinuation that his opponent was lying.

This statement has been around and his opposition has brought it up before. It would seem to me that his team did a very poor job of preparing him for the debate if he fumbled it.

Like I said CNN played both pieces of tape last night, and I heard it again on the radio this morning, so it didn't slip by unnoticed.

To me it is the context. I ... (Below threshold)
Rodney Dill:

To me it is the context. I think he honestly didn't remember making the first comment in March, at the time of debate. I think he forgot this minor point because he made the statement to show how much progress we had made in the war on terror, not because he thought that bin laden wasn't unimportant or that the war against terror in Afghanistan was unimportant.

No amount of preparation can help someone catch every detail, especially with someone, like Bush, who I will concur is a poor debater. I do not think that the debates are a good indicator of who will be a good leader. After all from the previous administration every knows that charisma and the ability to be convincing do not make a good, strong leader.

My prediction is that this point will be a nit in determining who won the debate, let alone who wins the election.

Most of the polls of und... (Below threshold)
julie:

Most of the polls of undecided voters are showing a 2-to-1 win in favor of Kerry. Black and white.

The so called undecided voters were actually
"democratic leaning" undecided voters. The issue is not one of "black and white" but how much bullshit the msm thinks it can get away with.

the insinuation that his... (Below threshold)

the insinuation that his opponent was lying.

Bush's opponent has a history of lying in debates. What's to insinuate?

Did you hear? Christopher R... (Below threshold)
julie:

Did you hear? Christopher Reeves left a long message on Kerry's answering machine congratulating him on the debate last night.

"Tax cuts have been proven ... (Below threshold)
floyd:

"Tax cuts have been proven over and over to raise the economy for everyone. "

The idea behind that reasoning is that the extra money in the pocket of the taxpayer gets recirculated in the economy and you get the multiplier effect.

Steve Balmer's (of Microsoft) share of the tax cut ( from the reduction of taxes on dividends) is over $200,000,000. How much of that do you think he will spend to stimulate the economy over the next 10 years.

From FactCheck.net:

In fact, the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center recently calculated that most of the tax cuts -- 53% to be exact -- went to the highest -earning 10% of US individuals and families.Those most affluent Americans got an average tax cut of $7,661.

And as for the "low- and middle-income Americans" Bush mentioned -- the bottom 60% of individuals and families got only 13.7% of the tax cuts, according to the Tax Policy Center, a far cry from "most" of the cuts as claimed by Bush.

The new math 14% is the majority. Let's hope W gets the majority of the vote.

Kerry : "I am a hunter" ?... (Below threshold)
Rich:

Kerry : "I am a hunter" ??? Photo shoots with a gun in hand?

Did he say that it was last year he talked with that sherriff about the druggie with the AK...last year when the ban was still enforced?

I can not remember exactly,but I think O'neal of the SV's said that Kerry had the unnerving ability to look you in the eye(or the camera) and make some outrageous statement as if it were absolute truth. Seemed to me he was working that skill hard these last debates.




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