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More on the Neanderthal Baby Killers (Groningen Protocol)

If this didn't get you steamed, I have more for you.

Via several people, I find this Knight Ridder story:

Euthanasia debate in Europe focuses on children

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands - Four times in recent months, Dutch doctors have pumped lethal doses of drugs into newborns they believe are terminally ill, setting off a new phase in a growing European debate over when, if ever, it's acceptable to hasten death for the critically ill. ...

Under the Groningen protocol, if doctors at the hospital think a child is suffering unbearably from a terminal condition, they have the authority to end the child's life. The protocol is likely to be used primarily for newborns, but it covers any child up to age 12. ...

A parent's role is limited under the protocol. While experts and critics familiar with the policy said a parent's wishes to let a child live or die naturally most likely would be considered, they note that the decision must be professional, so rests with doctors.

The protocol was written by hospital doctors and officials, with help from Dutch prosecutors. It's being studied by lawmakers as potential law.

Imagine you and your 10 year old daughter are in a car crash. You know the she is banged up but the paramedics tell you they've seen worse people make it. You wait anxiously outside the operating room when the surgeon comes out and says...

"You know... She was going to be crippled for life so we just killed her."

Welcome to life in the the European version of Utopia. Then imagine calling the local prosecutor and having them say "Killing that kid was a great idea... We should make that a law."

Think I'm exaggerating? From The Weekly Standard:

Dutch doctors have been surreptitiously engaging in eugenic euthanasia of disabled babies for years, although it technically is illegal, since infants can't consent to be killed. Indeed, a disturbing 1997 study published in the British medical journal, the Lancet, revealed how deeply pediatric euthanasia has already metastasized into Dutch neo natal medical practice: According to the report, doctors were killing approximately 8 percent of all infants who died each year in the Netherlands. That amounts to approximately 80-90 per year. Of these, one-third would have lived more than a month. At least 10-15 of these killings involved infants who did not require life-sustaining treatment to stay alive. The study found that a shocking 45 percent of neo-natologists and 31 percent of pediatricians who responded to questionnaires had killed infants.

It took the Dutch almost 30 years for their medical practices to fall to the point that Dutch doctors are able to engage in the kind of euthanasia activities that got some German doctors hanged after Nuremberg. For those who object to this assertion by claiming that German doctors killed disabled babies during World War II without consent of parents, so too do many Dutch doctors: Approximately 21 percent of the infant euthanasia deaths occurred without request or consent of parents.

Did you get that???

1 out of 5 kids is murdered without the parents' knowledge. And other countries in Europe think they should adopt this protocol.

You know folks, we ain't like Europe. And I for one, am damn glad.

(Powerpundit has these and some more)


TrackBack

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference More on the Neanderthal Baby Killers (Groningen Protocol):

» Listen, My Children... linked with Baby Killing

» Wes Roth linked with More on the Netherlands baby killing

» Shock and Blog linked with More on the Netherlands' culture of death

» OpinionBug.com linked with Murder and Babies In Amsterdam

» Brain Shavings linked with The Groningen Protocol

» The Conservative Cat linked with Euthanasia and Taxes

» Interested-Participant linked with Fourth Trimester Abortion

» Say Anything linked with Groningen Protocol Update

» DistributedPress linked with A Real Link-o-Rama

Comments (52)

The awful truth, again I wr... (Below threshold)
-S-:

The awful truth, again I write, is that it is not Neanderthals -- extinct species perhaps more human than not human -- responsible for these acts of barbery today in the Netherlands (perhaps, also, elsewhere), but "modern," living and breathing creeps alive today -- that means, now, it means they are members of what is supposedly the "superior" human, though I disagree with that premise due to news such as this.

That is, it's human beings alive in our world today who are taking these actions.

And sending a whole lot of trojan attachments my way since I wrote what I wrote a few days ago in Wizbang, among other hacking attempts.

I'm even getting reamed by French mac addicts, disdaining the Weblog Awards as prejudiced to and about "Anglo Saxon" blogs, and that's the least offensive thing written by this maniac somewhere in Europe...(use Google's translation tool if you can bear to read this -- it's stinky).

If I ever had anything decent to say/write (and I did) about the Netherlands and France, it is now completely rescinded. Barbarism, they have deteriorated into barbarism.

Identifying Neanderthals as being characteristic of this behavior (as described in this neews from the Netherlands) (and France, it appears, based upon the lunatic blog), dodges the point -- my only point made earlier -- and that is that it's contemporary, "modern" human beings in Europe committing these acts. They're not extinct, they're really alive and in our world today. And they categorize "modernity" for some human beings. This is what we have to contend with in our world today: a concept of modernism that is set on death and the negative.

Using a Mac does not bestow on anyone an e-ticket for non responsibility. I experienced a similar attack a while ago from, also, Denmark -- something quite random, in my experience, not like I troll Denmark sites and tease or taunt Denmark or the Netherlands, inviting their crusades o' horror -- but I'm thinking that there is a concept of civilization there that's quite intensely destructive. To make an understatement here, after this news you share.

P.S.: I found the website referenced in these comments by following my site stats, referral links. Why they hate "Anglo Saxons" is beyond me, nor me as a person, nor the Weblog Awards, nor, it seems, all of humanity.

Anyone with Lexis-Nexus sho... (Below threshold)

Anyone with Lexis-Nexus should go read that 1997 Lancet study. It's frightening. They could find only one Dutch doctor who said he wouldn't actively kill (as opposed to stopping life support) a patient or refer one to someone who would. And they explained why parents weren't involved in those 21 percent of cases -- it's too much of a burden for parents, apparently, and the parents don't know enough anyhow.

The numbers of babies killed who weren't on life-support treatment in the first place is horrifying.

Anyone read "The Giver"? Think it should be mandatory reading over there (and here)? Then again, it'll probably end up just like Anne Frank in North Korea, which is read as an example of how weak Jews and Capitalists are (according to 60 minutes, at least). They'd read a horror story about utopian euthanasia, and see it as good advice!

Paul, you're right. We'r... (Below threshold)

Paul, you're right. We're not like Europeans.

America rebelled from the ideals of Old-World Europe by coming to the New World. Our very "Declaration of Independence" says that our "Christianity," our morals and such are diametrically opposed to the Christianity and morals of Europe.

The same Bible, interprated two different ways has produced two distinctively different civilizations (or cultures) with two often opposing sets of ethics and ideals.

That's why America is a pro-LIFE nation (by majority) that respects life and liberty and freedom and Europe is otherwise.

Go figure. There's a "HUGE" story in this notion. As Drudge would say... "developing."

Paul, I found a great op-ed... (Below threshold)

Paul, I found a great op-ed from today on a Princeton Philosopher who justifies infanticide. Check my blog.

Hey, all you "Bush=Hitler" ... (Below threshold)
DWC:

Hey, all you "Bush=Hitler" idiots out there, get a load of real Nazi-style ideology in practice!

Another reason America shou... (Below threshold)
opine6:

Another reason America should RUN away from socialized medicine.

And they wonder why their p... (Below threshold)

And they wonder why their populations require more and more immigrants to maintain their social welfare states ... they kill off their own replacement population if "it" doesn't meet their level of satisfaction!

FWIW:"1 out of 5 kid... (Below threshold)
Amy:

FWIW:
"1 out of 5 kids is murdered without the parents' knowledge." is not what the article said. They said of the infants murdered, 1 our of 5 of the parents did not know. So, if 1/10,000 infants were murdered (or life support taken away, or life substaining medical treatment not given) then 1 our of 50,000 parents did not know.

I don't think I would want to know...

I added the life support part because the artcle said that about 85% of the infants needed "life-sustaining treatment to stay alive"

Amy

Sarcasm on:What I ... (Below threshold)
anonymous:

Sarcasm on:

What I really love about this protocol is that it is unpublished? I wish that I could go into the health insurance buisiness and sell policies but not publish what I will or what I wont cover.

Something like, "The insurer will cover all health care costs that the insurer is willing to cover according to the insurer's unpublished, proprietary guidelines. Such guidelines are not subject to review by the insuree, or anyother legal enitity"

Sarcasm off:

Amy, I think Paul reads the... (Below threshold)
tee bee:

Amy, I think Paul reads the article right and that the quote you pull out demonstrates faulty construction (in the original). "...of the infants murdered, 1 our of 5 of the parents did not know" is vague at best. who finds out about the death of their child when the other parent is absent?

it's a critical situation in which both parents would be consulted, if there were two parents involved; even if only one receives the notification, and finds out the death was induced, what do you think the odds really are that in their shock they won't blurt this tragedy to the other parent? not wanting to know doesn't change the fact that it happened.

it is hard to be concerned for a culture that doesn't fight this, but I am concerned about the culture drift it may cause if other nations don't protest vigorously. it reminds me of the Germans who didn't protest the call-ups, deportations and concentration camps because it wasn't their business.

What a lovely statement of ... (Below threshold)
Mikey:

What a lovely statement of principles to give say to those born "defective":

"God has shown you no mercy and neither shall man."

I feel sick to my stomach</... (Below threshold)
annie:

I feel sick to my stomach

Like I said yesterday...Thi... (Below threshold)
Debra:

Like I said yesterday...This is just too disturbing to comment on.
I'm with Annie...it is still leaving me with a pit in my stomach...
How incredibly sad that parents who trusted a pediatrician or ObGyn were duped into believing that their child died naturally...
~makes you want to cry for the child with no voice and the parents with no child!~


I have to tell you, if some... (Below threshold)
Mark:

I have to tell you, if some doctor informed me that he had killed my child because 'we thought it was better for her', said doctor better have his will filed. Because I'd kill him.

I simply cannot understand a society, and DOCTORS, who take this as 'just taking care of business'.

I was going to post somethi... (Below threshold)

I was going to post something about "The Giver" but I see Adrianne already has.

Mark: unfortunately, and h... (Below threshold)
-S-:

Mark: unfortunately, and hideously, Western medicine -- doctors -- have been putting to death certain children after birth. It's a little known fact, but it's happened in our medical past, based upon an evaluation of grave birth defects. I don't know what the definition of that is, however, or if it's still in practice; God knows, I hope that it isn't, but I do know that it once took place in the U.S.

I'm listening to U2 sing, "... (Below threshold)
-S-:

I'm listening to U2 sing, "One World" ("we have to carry each other, carry each other...").

Government killing of kids ... (Below threshold)
PTG:

Government killing of kids that might not have perfect Marxist lives in the cards is logical to the socialized medicine crowd. It is the lesson they learned from Nicolae and Elena Ceausescu, whose grotesque utopia was swamped with useless kids.

Here is a news story from 2... (Below threshold)
Jim:

Here is a news story from 20 years in the future.


March 21, 2024
Mr Martin Jones was executed today for planting a truck bomb at the Federal Court House in Atlanta On Jun 28, 2010. An act which killed 163 people including 15 Children.

One of the children was 8 year old Todd James. Todd James' Physical injuries were so severe and painful that doctors and hospital officials decided to Euthanize the child over the parent''s and the boy's objections 10 days after the bombing. The hospital said that the boy was in severe and agonizing pain. They decided he just was not going to have a decent quality if he recovered.

Mr. Martin Jones was convicted of the bombing on Jan 13, 2012 and subsequently sentenced to death.
His case has been on appeal since then.

------------------------------------------------
I am not a big fan of the Death Penalty. It is just kind of irritating that People who are so concerned about Human Rights and consider the US barbaric because of the Death Penalty turn around and come up with such an "Advanced Philosophy" as this.

There are some who would sa... (Below threshold)
Jet:

There are some who would say this is the ultimate end of any belief system founded on the theory of evolution. I must agree.

- "Progressive" asshats are... (Below threshold)

- "Progressive" asshats are vociferously against the death penalty, staging prayer sceances, protesting and rallying outside prisons, writting volumes of type on the subject, and vehemently condemning conservative values that allow this sort of "barbaric" practice....

- Then one of the great unwashed femtards boggies on down to the "planned parenthood" clinic and murders the baby she's carrying because she's afraid her "enlightened" moonbat bottom feeder boyfriend will dump her....

- Click-click (sounds of "lock and load")....

Finally and explanation for... (Below threshold)
John:

Finally and explanation for the Van Gogh killing:

it was just euthanasia!

So it's OK, right?

Right!

This is an issue that will ... (Below threshold)
Jim:

This is an issue that will begin to take root in the coming years here in the USA. This is unbelievable, but then again very believable -- it's the logical progression of the Liberal-Left mindset. My father-in-law is from Holland and he told me about their euthanasia policy but I thought he was exaggerating because of his hatred for the Dutch Lberal-Left establishment.

I'm absolutly shocked that ... (Below threshold)
Gmac:

I'm absolutly shocked that no one has mentioned "Ubermensch" yet... This is the ultimate goal of selective euthanasia (breeding) after all. And just think, all the way up to age 12 to so the 'misfits' that were passed over the first time can be culled at a later date. Side bets that the age limit is BS.

"A parent's role is limited... (Below threshold)
Omni:

"A parent's role is limited under the protocol. While experts and critics familiar with the policy said a parent's wishes to let a child live or die naturally most likely would be considered, they note that the decision must be professional, so rests with doctors."

Say WHAT?!!!!! If they don't fight this tooth and nail, I... I... I can't even think of anything bad enough to say here. They CAN'T let doctors make decisions about when to kill babies... doctors are supposed to have as their highest principle "first, do no harm," so... I can't even say anything coherent about this topic anymore. :-(

If the whole world doesn't rise up screaming with rage about this... is it too extreme to say that our very humanity is at stake here?

So much for the parents mak... (Below threshold)
Tim in PA:

So much for the parents making the decision.

Now it's just for terminal illness, but they have their foot in the door. Governments tend to expand powers and definitions, not retract them or freeze them. How long until genetic disposition for mental illness is covered under this?

Once again, recall the "research" put out by Berkeley arguing that "conservatism" is a mental illness. Connect the dots.

I think older children should have the choice to refuse invasive life support measures, and that parent's should be able to do so for children who are unconscious or too young to decide.

But giving the state the right to kill someone's child without their consent is horrifying. What if the CHILD -- perhaps a 10 or 11 year old child -- does not want it to happen??? Capital "E" evil.

Has the Groningen protocol ... (Below threshold)
julie:

Has the Groningen protocol been published any where? Or, are they keeping it underwraps?

good question Julie... I've... (Below threshold)
Paul:

good question Julie... I've been wondering that for a few days.

Don't think of it as euthan... (Below threshold)
John "Akatsukami" Braue:

Don't think of it as euthanasia, think of it as a 24th-trimester abortion.

This story has hit the MSM:... (Below threshold)
Omni:
Looks like the Left in Euro... (Below threshold)
Jim:

Looks like the Left in Europe is slowly moving towards out-and-out Nazism.

And these are the people th... (Below threshold)
jp:

And these are the people the left wing would have us seeking approval from before we go to war!? I hope this gets out to some of the extreme leftists.

Well, S, I'm not sure what ... (Below threshold)

Well, S, I'm not sure what the automatic translation gave you, but what's certain is that it's obviously very far from what I wrote, considering your reaction…

The bad thing I said were about the design of the logo, which I found quite bad and I can't figure out why I would hate anglo-saxons… I try to keep an open mind and I don't hate anglo-saxons, nor latin people, nor arabians, nor any ethnics, religions, nor whatever you can think of. I have relations with peoples, minds, philosophies, whatever the sex, age, ethnicity, religion. What's important to me is that we share things. And I'm very happy to speak (a little) and read (not so bad) english to allow me to open my mind wider, not only to french speaking people. I just hate cats and Microsoft, but I guess it's not so bad anyway… ;o)

Well, let me translate these two posts for you, so you can judge on facts, not randomized translation ! :o)

Here it is. I'll try to use the best english I can at this time of the night, for me, after a very long day.

The first was about :

«Weblog Awards speak english…

Interesting idea, since awards and contests, as everybody knows, allow people to discover or better know the theme of the award.

But I have the feeling, by reading the categories, that, even if Europe isn't forgotten, it's still mainly focused on english speaking productions. Too bad, since some french speaking blogs (and certainly spanish speaking or other languages, but I unfortunately can't read them) would deserve to find, through these awards, a wider or new audience…

Such a project, more open to non english language would certainly be interesting. There are certainly synergies to develop.»

More or less, it was not a criticism, more like an invitation to create spanish, italian, french, german and other categories. That's all there was to understand, there… :o)


As for the second post about this subject :

«2004 weblog awards

This logo is absolutely hideous and unbearable, but it's the official one, so I bow.

To limit aesthetic damages to this blog, I'll pick the smaller size. But, God, how ugly. And I spare you the square one, even worse. Ugly and unreadable, whatever the version. It doesn't make you want to hire Suzy Rice. Even simple. The remaining of her works are equally ugly and show a blatant lack of taste. That said, reading quickly through her blog (I don't have the courage to read it all, it's hard to read), I have the feeling that she's pro-bush, which says a lot about her intellectual and design capacities.

What's certain is that she brags about designing the Star Wars logo. She emphasizes it so much that one has the feeling that this barely modified Helvetica is her own creation and is a wonder. Don't exaggerate, if it's well known today, there is nothing exceptional about it, design-wise and, obviously, the credits are subject to caution.

Now. If I need graphic design, I prefer to ask talented people like Jo or Alba, certainly not her. Yuck.

That said, snooping through the comments, I saw non english speaking blogs in the proposed nominees. If they go a bit further and make it to the voting poll, this will already be good news for cultural and intellectual diversity…»

Ok, I admit it, this may not be nice to Suzy Rice, but after all, this is only a personal and aesthetic advice. Everyone can write about how beautiful this logo is and how great Bush is, and this will be rejoicing to see that variety in tastes gives spice to life. I'm always happy to share advices and opinions with people willing to discuss !

But, maybe these two opinions were what made you angry ? This is too bad, because this was not about the weblog awards. Only out of the subject matters.

The bottom line is that, in this post, I was rather glad that these awards existed and even more happily surprised to see non english speaking blogs in the first nominees, showing a will to open the awards to a wider audience.

After all, it seems we are more alike than you thought at first, no ? Don't ever trust automatic translators, better ask the person to translate the text for you, if in doubt, trust me. ;o)

To sum it up, the general meaning of this is :
- that the very idea of weblog awards is great to allow some interesting weblogs to reach a new and/or wider audience and that I was a bit disappointed at first that only english speaking ones might have been represented in the poll, since there are some many great blogs in so many other languages, after all ;
- that I'm quite surprised and happy that some non english speaking weblogs made it through the poll, thus bringing some spice and variety ;
- that I'm sad that I'm only able to access french and english speaking texts myself, since I'd love to be able to enjoy many other languages.

Why this long answer ? Because I have no problem with being insulted, called names or whatever, but I want it to be for what I said or made, nor for what I did not say or make. Moreover if the person lying about me is a lame automated translator. Simply.

Now, we still may not agree, but at least, it will be for valid reasons. :o)

Why this long answer ? <... (Below threshold)
julie:

Why this long answer ?
Obviously, because you don't know how or when to shut the fuck up.

Well, Julie, you just prove... (Below threshold)

Well, Julie, you just proved your point, indeed. You are obviously victim of the very same syndrom you claim I suffer from.

Anyway, this kind of language and reaction just proves that you are not able to sustain a normal and civilized conversation, but it's not a problem since I was just talking to S. And I'm sure he will react better than you did.

If your conception of freedom is that people who don't agree with you HAVE TO "shut the fuck up", then all I can hope is that you'll get what you deserve. A dictator who will give you enough time to think about your misbehaviour back in the good old days when you were free to talk and ordered others to shut up.

But, since bad people never get punished, it seems, you'll have a long and happy life and never suffer from what you did to others. Good for you.

Don't loose time posting more hate, I won't visit anymore and won't bother you again. For me, this issue is no more and I have more interesting and important things to do than lose my time with fascists like you.

However, if you want to talk, S, I'm always open and available.

Well, Julie, you just prove... (Below threshold)

Well, Julie, you just proved your point, indeed. You are obviously victim of the very same syndrom you claim I suffer from. You certainly have no right to tell me when and why I should stay silent.

Anyway, this kind of language and reaction just proves that you are not able to sustain a normal and civilized conversation, but it's not a problem since I was just talking to S. And I'm sure he will react better than you did.

If your conception of freedom is that people who don't agree with you HAVE TO "shut the fuck up", then all I can hope is that you'll get what you deserve. A dictator who will give you enough time to think about your misbehaviour back in the good old days when you were free to talk and ordered others to shut up.

But, since bad people never get punished, it seems, you'll have a long and happy life and never suffer from what you did to others. Good for you.

Don't loose time posting more hate, I won't visit anymore and won't bother you again. For me, this issue is no more and I have more interesting and important things to do than lose my time with fascists like you.

However, if you want to talk, S, I'm always open and available.

I'm SORRY for the unintenti... (Below threshold)

I'm SORRY for the unintentional spam of the comments, please remove the duplicate. I had a connection problem, which led to this double sending of the same comment.

Feel free to remove the duplicate. Or, if you prefer, all of my comments, if you think they "pollute" this space.

This is my last appearance here and sorry again.

Best regards.

T (de Z & T) I don... (Below threshold)
Paul:

T (de Z & T)

I don't think your comments "pollute this space" per se. But I am of the belief that calling someone a fascist because they happen to tell that you don't know when to shut the fuck up is juvenile.

It is, of course, quite conceivable that:

A) Julie is not a fascist

and

B) You don't know when to shut the fuck up.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

You are now, of course, welcome to prove her correct.

Imagine you and your 10 yea... (Below threshold)
Shangaan:

Imagine you and your 10 year old daughter are in a car crash. You know the she is banged up but the paramedics tell you they've seen worse people make it. You wait anxiously outside the operating room when the surgeon comes out and says...

"You know... She was going to be crippled for life so we just killed her."

Welcome to life in the the European version of Utopia. Then imagine calling the local prosecutor and having them say "Killing that kid was a great idea... We should make that a law."

***

That has to be one of the funniest accounts I've ever read, a bit like the news reports we get here in Holland from time to time about how American hospital staff will first search an accident victim's pockets to see if he can afford to pay for their services or not, and if not will tell him to FO and stop emptying his arteries all over their nice clean floors...

Is it really that bad in America? I doubt it very much. Wake up and smell the newsprint, folks, it's 5% accuracy and 95% a way of getting you to spend your money on a newspaper. Same applies here in Holland with regard to matters abroad - newspapers want to make money.

Any doctor here who comes out of an operating room saying "so we just killed her" would be in prison before he could remove his stethoscope from his earholes. Give me a break!

"Killing that kid was a great idea" - where did you get that from, a Hollywood movie? About as close to the truth as a film about man-eating tomatoes...

Shangaan, in Holland.

Just because the Netherland... (Below threshold)
Neil:

Just because the Netherlands is one of the most secular nations of the industrialized nations and is thus able to have laws that are *not* indoctrinated by the Bible for once, doesn't make it 'neanderthal' per se :-) How come so many industrialized nations have embraced the idea of separation of church and state, while the US is rapidly becoming the next modern Western Theocracy (after God's most favorite nation: the Vatican)? I find the US in that sense medieval.

And just because the US has put 'under God' in the Pledgde of Allegiance does not make it God's favorite nation (that's still the Vatican).

Guys, you don't like the stereotypes other nations have and use on the US, so don't think that everything you read and hear is true about other nations and the Netherlands in particular. Unless you agree being labeled trigger-happy gun-owners, death-penalty loving killers, obese fast-food eating fatties, loud obnoxious whining tourists in ugly shorts and cheap Hawaiian shirts, 'oh-my-god-how-are-you-doing?-super-fine-how-are-you!'-kinda-like-ish screaming Stepford housewives etc etc .. :-) I didn't think so you would like to ...

Neil
(Dutchie)

You are all so funny. The f... (Below threshold)
Marijn:

You are all so funny. The first thing i notice is that you don't know what you are talking about.
The second thing is that most idea's you have about Europe confirms that americans ARE stupid.

The funniest thing i read is that america is PRO-LIFE....LOL.....by killing iraqi people i guess?
Or are non-christians not counted here?

Have fun in your bible-belt!


Marijn, The Netherlands

Today I read in my (Dutch) ... (Below threshold)
Anna:

Today I read in my (Dutch) Newspaper that the conservatives in the USA are horrefied about the New protocals that alows doctors to end the lives of children who are suffering without a chance of recovery por improvement of the situation. I understand the shock. It's a heavy subject to speak about. But reading your oppinions on this website I am really disappointed, they are incredebly simplistic! I wish you took some time reading about the subject and hlistening to parents who have been in the terrible situation to see their child suffering so much they decied to end the treatment and in some situation end the life in an active way.Of course parents take the final discision. But if doctors do not agree with them they will not end the childs live, if they see any chance of improvement. It's not the otherway around!(docters ending childrens lives without the parents consent)check your sources, don't write down anything you sort of think you have heard somewhere)
Do you reaally think this is a Dutch subject? Euthanasia on children happens everywhere. The Dutch are the only ones who want to speak about it openly and make laws so the situation can be strictly controled.
Here you can see what one of your own american doctors had to say about it:

"However, experts acknowledge that doctors euthanize routinely in the United States and elsewhere, but that the practice is hidden.

"Measures that might marginally extend a child's life by minutes or hours or days or weeks are stopped. This happens routinely, namely, every day," said Lance Stell, professor of medical ethics at Davidson College in Davidson, N.C., and staff ethicist at Carolinas Medical Center in Charlotte, N.C. "Everybody knows that it happens, but there's a lot of hypocrisy. Instead, people talk about things they're not going to do."

I hope you will read a bit more about the subject and stop shouting stupid things without knowing they are true.

Anna (from Amsterdam)

AnnaYou may choose... (Below threshold)
Paul:

Anna

You may choose to defend killing babies. We prefer to protect them. That does not make us "simple." It makes you baby killers.

The fact you don't see a problem with the practice of killing babies says volumes.

Paul

"Any doctor here who com... (Below threshold)
Paul:

"Any doctor here who comes out of an operating room saying "so we just killed her" would be in prison before he could remove his stethoscope from his earholes. Give me a break!"

Then tell me... How many baby killers has your country jail?

50? 10? 5? 1? NONE--- Yeah- Thought so.

Hi,I'm fairly puzz... (Below threshold)
Carst:

Hi,

I'm fairly puzzled by the simplicity with which you try to grasp a complex situation. Just read this first:

---

Child euthanasia remains illegal everywhere. Experts say doctors outside Holland do not report cases for fear of prosecution.

"As things are, people are doing this secretly and that's wrong," said Eduard Verhagen, head of Groningen's children's clinic. "In the Netherlands we want to expose everything, to let everything be subjected to vetting."

According to the Justice Ministry, four cases of child euthanasia were reported to prosecutors in 2003. Two were reported in 2002, seven in 2001 and five in 2000. All the cases in 2003 were reported by Groningen, but some of the cases in other years were from other hospitals.

Groningen estimated the protocol would be applicable in about 10 cases per year in the Netherlands, a country of 16 million people.

Since the introduction of the Dutch law, Belgium has also legalized euthanasia, while in France, legislation to allow doctor-assisted suicide is currently under debate. In the United States, the state of Oregon is alone in allowing physician-assisted suicide, but this is under constant legal challenge.

However, experts acknowledge that doctors euthanize routinely in the United States and elsewhere, but that the practice is hidden.

"Measures that might marginally extend a child's life by minutes or hours or days or weeks are stopped. This happens routinely, namely, every day," said Lance Stell, professor of medical ethics at Davidson College in Davidson, N.C., and staff ethicist at Carolinas Medical Center in Charlotte, N.C. "Everybody knows that it happens, but there's a lot of hypocrisy. Instead, people talk about things they're not going to do."

More than half of all deaths occur under medical supervision, so it's really about management and method of death, Stell said.

---

if your lying makes you sleep better, good night to you. just don't forget what your bible says about splinters in the eyes of other people

Dear concerned Americans,<b... (Below threshold)
mark:

Dear concerned Americans,
It's great to hear you care so much about the rights of children. You're completely right that they should be protected. Just looking at the most recent Unicef and OECD statistics you will have to agree that the Dutch have a quite good score in taking care for the health and education of their children. Did you know the US just scores a little better than Cuba if your're looking at child mortality rates? And really, the Dutch are by far better.

julie:Not the whole ... (Below threshold)

julie:
Not the whole protocol, but on this link
http://www.azg.nl/azg/nl/english/nieuws/45613
you will find a press release (in English) from the Groningen University Hospital.

I hope you will find that the protocol is the work of people who have to deal with difficult choices and who have to do ethically and emotionally difficult things.

The active and passive ending of life happens everywhere. We in the Netherlands have chosen to take this practice out in the open, to make it transparent and verifiable. For your information: after the ending of a life, the District Attorney is still informed, the DA still verifies the case and can still decide to prosecute, if he/she finds that the ending of life was done for the wrong reasons.

And please, people, please, would you please stop comparing us to the nazis? There are still a lot of Dutch people who have suffered under their terror.

>Then tell me... How many b... (Below threshold)
Shangaan:

>Then tell me... How many baby killers has your >country jail?

>50? 10? 5? 1? NONE--- Yeah- Thought so.
>Posted by: Paul at December 9, 2004 10:49 AM

Grow up Paul, you're putting words into my mouth and assuming things about which you have no knowledge whatsoever.

As far as I personally know there are no doctors in jail here for having illegally killed a baby or child or adult. You appear to see this as proof that dozens of evil "baby killers" are getting away with murder. I see it as confirmation that the system that is in place is working and has made illegal action by doctors who want to give a terminally ill patient an end to his suffering, completely unnecessary.

Why do you automatically assume that all over the Netherlands there are doctors (mostly highly intelligent, highly-educated and dedicated professionals, not so?) who are just itching to bump off poor innocent kids? Is that what American doctors are like?

When an animal's life is no longer viable and it suffers pain that cannot be relieved, you put it down and call it humane.

When a human being is in constant pain, cannot live without life-support machinery and has been reduced to "living" like a vegetable, you prefer to prolong that person's agony indefinitely and still call it humane? I call it sadistic.

We regard each case as an individual one that must be judged on its particular circumstances. You appear to apply a catch-all lofty principle of misguided so-called "humanity" that lumps everyone together regardless.

Let me give you a real life example of American "humanity", Paul - a guy is living in the town of Nederland, Texas. He was shot by a drunk and is now paralyzed from the armpits down. His insurance company will not renew his policy (bucks are more important than people in America, right?) a year down the line, so he's left holding around US$300.000 in bills that he cannot pay. He can no longer pay the mortgage on his house because he has no income. He cannot pay the $700 worth of medicine that he needs per month. He lives on food stamps. If he has an attack of breathing difficulties he doesn't dare call his specialist because that "humane" American doctor wants $1500 per hour for his services. His (millionaire) lawyer will take 40% of whatever the court eventually awards him in damages from the perpetrator - if he lives long enough to see the case go to court. It's been over a year already and the perp is still walking around free, despite 2 witnesses and the perp's admission of guilt (he offered $6000 as an out-of-court settlement!!!)

The guy concerned is a Dutchman, married to an American, who went to America to work as an airline pilot. You can see his website at:

http://home.att.net/~g.allport

Remind me again how humane the American system is...

Shangaan, Netherlands

We'd better stop these laws... (Below threshold)
Tom:

We'd better stop these laws, or Bush 'll invade us for all the babykilling going on around here in the streets.

Damn, looks like some Americans are desperately searching for new enemies now Russia, China and Iraq are not on the to-do list anymore...

The Groningen Protocol has ... (Below threshold)
Kasper:

The Groningen Protocol has five criteria:

-the suffering must be so severe that the newborn has no prospects of a future;

-there is no possibility of a cure or alleviation with medication or surgery;

-the parents must always give their consent;

-a second opinion must be provided by an independent doctor who has not been involved with the child’s treatment;

-and the deliberate ending of life must be meticulously carried out with the emphasis on aftercare.

I think the problem many Am... (Below threshold)
Neil:

I think the problem many Americans have with the idea of child euthanasia (or euthanaisa in general) is that doctors are *killing* these people. In a strict theoretical way, that's true. However, there is a *huge* difference between a murder and euthanasia.

In the US doctors perform euthanasia as well, albeit in secret. In the Netherlands, we have deciced it is best to have it in the open, so that doctors are merely helping their patients with *their own* last wish, won't be prosecuted.

With regard to infant euthanasia: please do not interpret this so-called 'protocol' as some sick national act to actually kill unwanted babies. I mean, if we wouldn't know any better, America is heaven for people trying to sue big companies for huge amount of punitive damages (every non-American knows the old-lady-sued-McDonalds-story-because-of-the-hot-coffee, yet few know the real facts behind that story).

The 'protocol' is merely a guideline for the doctor of the euthanasia act that has *already* been passed years ago. It's like a guidebook to help non-legal people (c.q. the doctors) understand the legalese behind the act.

Please get your facts straight first, *then* comment on them.

Neil - Amsterdam, Netherlands

Yeah, Neil you are right. I... (Below threshold)
Irene:

Yeah, Neil you are right. I think Amiercans have a way of twisting the truth and leaving out facts. Do some research people, and do not believe everything you hear!
And when are the Americans gonna catch on to Bush?? The rest of the world has.




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