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Michael Jackson's Bail Revoked, Arrests Warrant Issued

Perhaps Michael Jackson wasn't taking his legal situation seriously enough...

SANTA MARIA, Calif. (Reuters) - The judge in Michael Jackson's child molestation case issued a warrant for the entertainer's arrest after Jackson failed to show up for his trial on Thursday, the day his young accuser was set to continue his testimony.

Jackson's attorney explained that the 46-year-old entertainer was in the hospital with a back problem. The judge rejected that explanation, ordering that Jackson's bail be revoked and the entertainer jailed if he did not appear within an hour.

Jackson's 15-year-old accuser was to have begun his second day on the witness stand on Thursday morning

The order take effect at 9:30 AM Pacific. Jackson's attorney, Thomas Mesereau Jr., was seen awaiting his clients arrival outside the courthouse talking on his cellphone.

Jackson arrived at the Santa Barbara County Courthouse approximately 5 minutes past the judge's one hour deadline, coming directly from the hospital according to his lawyer. Jackson arrived to court wearing what appeared to be pajama bottoms, looking fragile and confused. There was no word yet on what the judge is planning to do about the arrest warrant.

FOX News is reporting:

Sources close to Jackson told FOX News that his lawyer, Thomas Mesereau Jr., was informed his client would get a 15-minute grace period for his arrival in court, but the singer would likely get a major tongue-lashing from the judge. Melville was said to be furious and fed up with Jackson, and swore that such antics wouldn't happen again, sources told FOX.
Since Jackson appeared within that 15 minute grace period it looks like he won't be going to jail today.

Final Update: While Jackson's attorney were surely read the riot act in chambers, in court the judge downplayed the incident and told the jury to disregard Jackson appearance (heh). Testimony from Jackson accuser proceeded.


Semi-related: MSNBC contributor, and Jackson family friend Stacy Brown, reported Monday that the Jackson camp is already planning a victory tour.


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Comments (57)

It sounds like the judge is... (Below threshold)
julie:

It sounds like the judge issued and "held" the warrant. He has to so he doesn't lose jurisdiction (the right to order him into court) over Jackson. They hold it in order to give them a chance to get their butt into court. It appears to have worked because I just heard Jackson is on his way.

Initially, his attorney was very good at reigning Jackson in after the dancing on the limo fiasco. But, now Jackson is even too much for him to control.

"I'll be there......." or ... (Below threshold)
mesablue:

"I'll be there......." or maybe not.

Freak Boy just showed up fo... (Below threshold)
mesablue:

Freak Boy just showed up for court an hour and a half late in pajamas. Five minutes after the judge's deadline.

He always looks fragile and... (Below threshold)
julie:

He always looks fragile and confused. I hope he brought some clothes for him. If not, maybe the public defender can lend him some from their clothes bank. Time to call the jury in!

Why doesn't the Judge just ... (Below threshold)
Red:

Why doesn't the Judge just put everyone out of their misery and just conduct the rest of the trial from the Hospital's 3rd floor East? Or an insane assylum.

I don't understand why Jack... (Below threshold)

I don't understand why Jackson gets special treatment that you or I would never be afforded. Consider this, if you or I were arrested and on trial for child molestation charges, do you think the judge would allow you to retain custody of your kids? Probably not, yet there is no mention of his own children and their current location.

The point was to not waste ... (Below threshold)
julie:

The point was to not waste the jury's time. The judge is not treating him differently from other defendants. But, you only get so many chances. Where it may come back to haunt him is if he is convicted. Usually, they set a higher bail pending sentence and appeal because you are now convicted and less likely to show up. Because of this nonsense, the judge may set an even higher bail or no bail at all.

Gabriel: He has cust... (Below threshold)
julie:

Gabriel:
He has custody of his kids. There was a investigation after the allegations of abuse were made and they found no abuse. Say what you will about Gloria Allread, but she has been on his and DCS's ass about this since 1994.

For someone who is always mouthing how he just loves kids, you have to wonder how he finds the time to spend with his own.

"For someone who is alwa... (Below threshold)
Clash City Rocker:

"For someone who is always mouthing how he just loves kids, you have to wonder how he finds the time to spend with his own. "

That's easy, he spends time with them in bed...

Jackson should have been ta... (Below threshold)
Stan25:

Jackson should have been taken to the courthouse’s holding cell, as soon as he showed up. That what would have happened to us. The cop that was standing there should have drug him out the SUV by the collar of his pajamas, slapped the cuffs on him and frog marched him into the courtroom. This has got to hurt Jacko’ s case no matter what the judge says or said to the jury. Shades of Liz Taylor anyone?

Just once, can some crazed ... (Below threshold)
Rob Hackney:

Just once, can some crazed 'fan' take out someone that REALLY NEEDS A GOOD SHOOTING??

Then again, bullets are too good for pedos.

skybird: His atty said he ... (Below threshold)
julie:

skybird: His atty said he received a call from Jackson who told him that he hurt his back, he was at the hospital, and he wasn't going to appear.

I have no doubt that is what Jackson told Mesereau and what he passed on to the judge. Eactly how is that offering ridiculous excuses? Would you prefer that Mesereau not say exactly what Jackson told him and instead lie to make Jackson appear more credible for not appearing in court?

THIS HAS CHANGED SO PLEASE ... (Below threshold)
firstbrokenangel:

THIS HAS CHANGED SO PLEASE UPDATE IT.

And there is an ambulance waiting outside for Michael at the end of the day; there will be no court tomorrow.

UPDATE, UPDATE.

Cindy

Look, he was rushed to the ... (Below threshold)
firstbrokenangel:

Look, he was rushed to the hospital at 5:15 am; his atty knew about it at 5:30. They tried to tell the judge and they even tried to get the doctor to talk to the judge and the judge refused but when he saw Michael, he realized the man had a serious problem and boy I know how that feels. Actuallly mine is worse but they have an ambulance outside waiting and he'll spend the day in the hospital tomorrow. IF YOU ASK ME, THE DAMN JUDGE SHOULD HAVE PICKED UP THE DAMN PHONE AND TALKED TO THE DOCTOR WHO WAS TREATING MICHAEL JACKSON. Then none of this shit would have happened.

Cindy

Julie,What makes Y... (Below threshold)
firstbrokenangel:

Julie,

What makes YOU think he's going to be convicted? I doubt that very much. Snedden will be eating both shoes when this is over - THIS time Michael Jackson is NOT going to be paying people off for lies - he's facing their lies and conspiracy and what Martin Bashir (whom the judge put in contempt) the entire reason for this mess, after watching it the first time quite some time ago, the first thing I said was "Now that was the ultimate betrayal" and that's exactly what is happening. If the jurors are smart, they'll realize they are taking this man for all the money they can get from him even though he's now broke. Such a shame we have such assoles on this earth and I'm not talking about Michael Jackson either.

Cindy

If Mr. Jackson is found to ... (Below threshold)
tucsonnn:

If Mr. Jackson is found to be innocent, what should happen to the mother and kids. They would be committing "deformation of character" wouldn't they?

If the media cares about th... (Below threshold)
tucsonnn:

If the media cares about this one kid, how come they do not emphasize all of the kids being molested by western businessmen in Thailand and Mexico? Don't they count?

Cindy: I wrote IF ... (Below threshold)
julie:

Cindy: I wrote IF he is convicted. But, since you brought it up, one can only hope. Let's clear up some mis-statements:

1. MJ rushed himself to the hospital. The decision to do that was his alone.

2. It's not the judge's job to run interference for defendants; he has an atty for that.

3. If the judge felt he made a mistake when he saw MJ, he didn't say or act it. In fact, he proceeded with the trial.

4. You are the only one who has reported there was an ambulance waiting to take him to the hospital after court.

5. Because he has 21 motions/hearings on calender, the judge had already planned not to hear testimony on Friday. It has nothing to do with MJ's alleged injury.

6. Jackson didn't choose to face anything – He was indicted.

7. Bashir didn't force Jackson to talk about sleeping with boys and giving them “hot milk.”

8. You're entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine.

The media views Michael as ... (Below threshold)
lamont:

The media views Michael as "guilty till proven innocent". Is this right? Every comment they make, even internet polls, skew questions that make MJ look guilty. They call him weirdo etc. Maybe he is not the guy next dooor, but what about so many of the other freaks in show business today? How come no one speaks of them? It seems that the media has a vendetta against MJ, because he speaks out against them. If they really care about kids, like another individual wrote, they would expose all of the pedophiles from the USA going to poor countries to pick up desperately poor children. The vendetta could also be due to jealousy of his wealth, his fame. Him being an eccentric personality is not what it truly is. There are many nutty and freaky celebrities. Michael Jackson is not poor, some people are hoping he would go broke! He owns a major share in Sony! Anyone with any common sense would know he is not poor or broke!

I think the problem with MJ... (Below threshold)
Jed:

I think the problem with MJ is that he is too soft! If he chooses to change his face that's his business! If he were like the typical American, he would say " I answer to no one!" Or "fuck off and get a life!" I do not answer to anyone, and no one should answer to anyone once they are not breaking the law. Look at Marilyn Manson, he's freaky and scary to many, yet the media does not pick on him. He looks demented to many people. Look at how Elton John dresses like a fairy, and David Bowie is a bisexual, and Pewee Herman had child porn in his posession! Can't you see there is an unfair bias against MJ? There are too many double standards in how people pick on some, and look the other way when others do eccentric or weird things.

Bashir is a sell-out! A co... (Below threshold)
Jed:

Bashir is a sell-out! A complete asshole who cannot be trusted! He deceived Michael, and sold him out to get a promotion at work.

Lamont:The media ... (Below threshold)
julie:

Lamont:
The media views Michael as "guilty till proven innocent". Is this right?
Sure. You're only entitled to the presumption of innocence in a court of law before conviction.

what about so many of the other freaks in show business today?
You mean freaks like Roman Polanski, R. Kelly, PeeWee Herman, and Jeffrey Jones?

Vendetta for talking out against the press? Bwahhhhh! Vendetta due to jealousy of $$ and fame? Bwahhhhh!

they would expose all of the pedophiles from the USA going to poor countries to pick up desperately poor children.
I have certainly seen numerous documentaries on the subject. So, I guess your wrong. Since, you feel so strongly about it, what have you done? And why do you mention only the USA? If you really cared you would mention other countries, too.

Jed:
Being freaky, a “fairy,” or bisexual, is not a crime. Being arrested for possession of child porn and pleading guilty is.

Can't you see there is an unfair bias against MJ? Nope.

So, you think Bashir should have kept secret the fact MJ likes to sleep with young boys?

JulieIf you can't ... (Below threshold)
lamont:

Julie

If you can't see the unfair bias against MJ, is because you have one! Maybe you are jealous deep down in the blind heart of yours! The Amerian media should focus on Americans, and the crimes against children by Americans should be our priority! Don't you know, according to the
FBI, what the profile of a pedophile is. He does not look like MJ! Sure it is a vendetta, only a blind person can't see that! And your pathetic Bwaah, just shows how uneducated you are and ignorant of the crimes that so many western businessmen do. And by the way, the media has tremendous power with little or any responsiblity, except to make money for their shareholders. They do not like anyone challenging their authority. They have a god complex. MJ challenged this. The media in the eyes of many, destroy lives, so they could sell papers, or increase their viewing audience.
The owners of these companies would not like their personal lives for the world to see, yet they do not care if the personal lives of celebrities, is exposed. They have no scruples.

So you do not believe in the innocent until proven guilty? You pretty well stand against America on this one!


What have you done so wrong that you protest against MJ so strongly!

I protest against bias and double standards, that's all. You protest against MJ, as if he is the only pedophile, and ignore the bigger picture. I am looking at the big picture, which is more important.

Good one Lamont!Ju... (Below threshold)
Jed:

Good one Lamont!

Julie

The reason why you can't see is because you do not want to see. You are biased yourself! It was said on the Bashir documentary by MJ and the kid, that MJ slept on the floor! Why do you say he slept with the boy, when both him and the boy in the documentary said otherwise. Are you delusional!

JulieWhen you say ... (Below threshold)
lamont:

Julie

When you say that it is okay to say "guilty until proven innocent" , makes me wonder if you are a communist!

If any of you have children... (Below threshold)
jed:

If any of you have children, you would probably understand why I pose this question. If someone molested your kid, would you take money? Most parents would want the electric chair for the perpetrator, if it was available by law. This is what brings into question the parents of the first accuser of Michael Jackson in 1993.

Jeesh! Are you people for r... (Below threshold)
julie:

Jeesh! Are you people for real?

Lamont:

MJ is an American and he is on trial for sexually abusing children. You want even MORE media attention?

Yes, I do know the FBI profile of a pedophile, but as the FBI states: “we have seen child molesters that represent all walks of life.” More pedophiles may be white, however, more people in this country are white. And, any way, I judge people by their behavior, not by their race as you apparently do. You argue that MJ is black so he can't possibly be a pedophile. And you call other people uneducated?

So you do not believe in the innocent until proven guilty? You pretty well stand against America on this one!

Sure, I believe in it where it is constitutionally applicable, which is only in a court of law. I have the 6th Amendment and 200 years of American Jurisprudence on my side. You only have ignorance on yours.

And, no, you are not looking at the “big picture” as you call it. You are making some idiotic argument that since we can't arrest and prosecute every offender in the world, we should not arrest anyone, i.e., MJ. Creepy!

What have you done so wrong that you protest against MJ so strongly!

What are you doing so wrong, that you don't want a pedophile prosecuted!

Jed:

I didn't base my opinion on the documentary, but on the grand jury testimony, the deposition given in 1994, expert testimony, and his behavior, in that he acts and sounds like every other pedophile.

And, your lack of a basic understanding of our constitutional guarantees makes me know you are a moron.

This is what brings into... (Below threshold)
julie:

This is what brings into question the parents of the first accuser of Michael Jackson in 1993.

Maybe, they did because they knew their kid would not get justice because of people like you who think rich celebreties are above the law? And, apparantly, they were right!

Maybe MJ will be found inno... (Below threshold)
frank from australia:

Maybe MJ will be found innocent of the kid sex charges, as he has the money to fight, but he must surely go down for supplying grog to underaged kids. How can his fans, except a growen up supplying grog to kids, Mj sucks, hope he gets life.

RE: tucsonnn's post (March ... (Below threshold)
AnonymousDrivel:

RE: tucsonnn's post (March 10, 2005 06:53 PM)
If the media cares about this one kid, how come they do not emphasize all of the kids being molested by western businessmen in Thailand and Mexico? Don't they count?

This case has very little to do with the media's concern for this kid (or other molested kids) or the public welfare. This is a salacious story (however warped) that the media can milk for months and do it very inexpensively. MJ is a moneymaking machine for them right now and they'll continue to cover it as such. No doubt that more attention should be made of child molestation by "western businessmen in Thailand and Mexico" and by Eastern businessmen in Europe and America. U.N. employess seem to be in the news quite a bit these days, so nationality does not seem to be a restriction. Prosecution should know no borders.

JulieYour talking ... (Below threshold)
lamont:

Julie

Your talking about the 6th amendment. I am talking about a principle that our countries holds onto to govern our law. Innocent until proven guilty. The statistics on paraphilias are in medical textbooks, and they focus one one category of people. It has nothing to do with the population distribution of America. If you want to believe that it is okay to call someone guilty before getting all of the facts claritied, you need to grab a brain. Someone could say your a pervert tomorrow, and I guess you would be guilty until proven innocent. People can accuse anyone about anything, and this is a problem in the USA especially, with all of the lawsuits that money grabbers contrue.
This argument that you claim I am saying to not arrest every pervert, is exactly the opposite of what I am saying. We as a nation are not doing enough to punish perverts who travel to the poor countries and pick up children.
You are concluding MJ is a pedophile before the trial is over, and seem to want him prosecuted now. I am saying to bring justice to this situation, so that he be prosecuted if the be found guilty. That he should not be prosecuted if people have an opinion, that he is one. Your arguments are truly twisted and fabricated. You seem to lack some insight and basic principles.

Anonymous DrivelI ... (Below threshold)
tucsonnn:

Anonymous Drivel

I must say you are intelligent. I was not focusing on the interntional problem, because that would require cooperation of many nations. But your right! However, eastern businessmen have not been reported as a major issue affected American kids. Yet in Europe, I do not really know. However, your point is good, that we must protect all kids, wherever they are!

Julie, You say ric... (Below threshold)
jed:

Julie,

You say rich celebrities are above the law. Martha Stuart, Tommy Lee, hmmmm. This may prove you wrong. Maybe it was about money?! Did not consider this?

RE: tucsonnn's post (March ... (Below threshold)
AnonymousDrivel:

RE: tucsonnn's post (March 11, 2005 06:11 AM)

You're too kind. Every once in a great rant I say something worthwhile. I'm glad you were here to witness such an event because I normally drivel. ;)

I wasn't really picking on Easterners in as much as I was trying to reverse your sentence for effect. The emphasis really was on the internationality of it all which you appreciated. I tried to link to a recent report of the Middle Eastern U.N. envoy who was caught (and subsequently released because of immunity) soliciting from an undercover detective posing as a young girl; unfortunately, I could not find the link. Right now, Congo seems to be receiving considerable coverage and has replaced northern European/Ukranian prostitution rings in the headlines.

I guess these "hotspots" will circle the globe continually until every society participates in its purging. Sadly, it won't happen in my lifetime because biology trumps law. A subpopulation will always be able to skirt justice and there will always be a society that ignores it.

It was stated that the perp... (Below threshold)
fred:

It was stated that the perpetrators of pedophilia are white male. This is not totally accurate. Japanese have a problem here, and there are cases popping up in different cultures. Yet statistics show that the perpretrators are disproportionately white by a large value, weighing all factors. This is not intended to be racist, but just reflects what is in the literature and stats. Don't blame me! I did not write the stats!

Jackson the freak is guilty... (Below threshold)
Rob Hackney:

Jackson the freak is guilty and everyone knows it.

the only people who doubt this are those with a nostalgic fetish for his brand of bland 'pop' music if you ask me.

Or those that like to remember him as a pert young boy back in the day...and that should sound alarm bells too!

He's as guilty as OJ. Lets just hope the jury gets it goddamn RIGHT this time. Everyone gets so damn skittish when a high profile negro is in the dock. ( Even if this one looks like a honky. )

Lamont: Your ta... (Below threshold)
julie:

Lamont:

Your talking about the 6th amendment. I am talking about a principle that our countries holds onto to govern our law.

In other words, you're saying you're wrong.

The statistics on paraphilias are in medical textbooks, and they focus one one category of people.

Gee, you really like this subject. Frankly, I would find any stats suspect unless from the doj, etc. What is criminal is actions. I'm not the thought police like you. So, do you have a link to a statistical study with actual numbers on pedophilia black vs. nonblack offenders?

It has nothing to do with the population distribution of America.

Prove it. You are the one who made the allegations that MJ could not be guilty because he's black.

If you want to believe that it is okay to call someone guilty before getting all of the facts claritied, you need to grab a brain.

I have a brain. A well educated one at that. Do you think the prosecution should get up in court and argue someone is guilty? I mean they haven't been convicted yet, right?

Someone could say your a pervert tomorrow, and I guess you would be guilty until proven innocent.

You already did that to me. It didn't work.

People can accuse anyone about anything, and this is a problem in the USA especially, . . .

Of course, they can't.

This argument that you claim I am saying to not arrest every pervert, is exactly the opposite of what I am saying.

Not *claim* you are saying – you *are* saying. And, you call other people bias? You are unable to look at MJ and judge him like other people. Aren't you a little old to be star struck?

We as a nation are not doing enough to punish perverts who travel to the poor countries and pick up children.

Don't give me this “we as a nation” crap until you read the damn constitution. From what you have written, you don't have a clue as to “we as a nation.” If you are so outrage about the victimization of children in other countries to chastise everyone about it, what are YOU doing about it? Put your money where your mouth is.

You are concluding MJ is a pedophile before the trial is over, and seem to want him prosecuted now. I am saying to bring justice to this situation, so that he be prosecuted if the be found guilty.

He be prosecuted if he be found guilty? Okay! Yes, I have concluded he is a pedophile. He is being prosecuted now. You can't be prosecuted after you are found guilty. It's called the Double Jeopardy Clause of the 6th Amendment and the Due Process Clause of the 5th Amendment. I'm surprised that a constitutional scholar like you wouldn't know that.

That he should not be prosecuted if people have an opinion, that he is one.

So, are you saying the DA should only arrest and prosecute people they don't think are guilty? lol!

Your arguments are truly twisted and fabricated. You seem to lack some insight and basic principles.

Right!

Jed: You say ri... (Below threshold)
julie:

Jed:

You say rich celebrities are above the law. Martha Stuart, Tommy Lee, hmmmm. This may prove you wrong. Maybe it was about money?! Did not consider this?

No, I said you and lamont think rich celebrities are above the law, which apparently you do. And, maybe it's about the evidence through the years. And yes, it was also about the money – in that, this time Jackson couldn't buy off the witnesses to avoid prosecution.

Fred: “It was s... (Below threshold)
julie:

Fred:

“It was stated . . .”

By who? It? Does It have a name? A link? Not that it matters. Saying MJ couldn't be a pedophile because he is black is still racist. None of your stats will say there is no reported incident of pedophilia among blacks. Only an idiot would think that. But, since you are so emphatic about the statistics, link them. I want numbers not some vague reference as to “more likely to be...” Link to a doj, bps, fbi stat of sex crimes against children broken down by race. And I will blame you in that you are making specific representations as to statistics with nothing to back it up.

MJ may be guilty, but let's... (Below threshold)
fred:

MJ may be guilty, but let's let the facts decide rather than our opinions or feelings. He may be also framed to get money. He may be bizarre and eccentric, but this does not necessarily mean he is a pervert. So many inconsistencies in the boys' accounts so far, makes one question the credibility of the case for the prosecution. The facts are definitely a better way to go, when deciding this case. Anyone who is in court, and it does not matter who you are, would like a fair chance. Jumping to conclusions, before the facts are all in and tried, is a blunder.

JulieYou just do n... (Below threshold)
lamont:

Julie

You just do not want to give the guy a fair chance, that's all! You're fixated on the 6th amendment. Can't you think without letting this amendment control you? Have your own brain.

I do not have to prove anything to you. You need to prove things to yourself.

The facts need to decide his fate, not your opinion. Accusations brought him in to this trial, not your opinions.

I am not a MJ fan, I never bought one of his albums.

If you want to be technical he is being prosecuted, but so far the defense is outdoing the prosecution.

I never said blacks are not pedophiles, but, as another commenter said, white males dominate the stats on this.

The bottom line is, at the end of this trial, the facts will be used to acquit or imprison MJ, not you and your pathetic arguments.

I never said you are a pervert. There you go again.

Julie Who said tha... (Below threshold)
jed:

Julie

Who said that rich celebrities are above the law? Wasn't it you. Your arguments are so weak, it's pathetic.

JulieYou create yo... (Below threshold)
Fred:

Julie

You create your own conclusions. I never made any. You could use the stat, and say that is much less likely to see a black male pedophile than white, if you want to. Nothing more, like you seem to be getting at.

Julie,Did you comm... (Below threshold)
Fred:

Julie,

Did you comment on the FBI profile earlier of pedophiles. You already found your statistic.

I used incorrect terminolog... (Below threshold)
Lamont:

I used incorrect terminology. I should have said "imprisoned" instead of "prosecuted". He is being prosecuted and defended. What if the parents are found to be lying in this case? Shouldn't they go to jail. "slander". You just do not want to consider this. Throughout the history of the USA, black males have been almost always assumed to be guilty by whites, and this shows in the polls today. You participated in a poll like this,let me guess.

You just do not want to ... (Below threshold)
julie:

You just do not want to give the guy a fair chance, that's all!

Sure, I want him to get a fair trial and he is getting one. And then I want him convicted.

You're fixated on the 6th amendment. Can't you think without letting this amendment control you? Have your own brain.

I try to back up what I say with authority. That you are dismissive of the constitution while claiming rights under it, show you have no brain.

I do not have to prove anything to you. You need to prove things to yourself.

Nope you don't. But if you are going to make assertions without authority than you proved yourself a fool. I guess this is your way of saying you can't come up with the stats to back up what you say. What a shock!

The facts need to decide his fate, not your opinion. Accusations brought him in to this trial, not your opinions.

Boy, you are confused. My opinion has no effect on whether he is found guilty at trial. However, you seem to believe it does and got your panties in a twist.

If you want to be technical he is being prosecuted, but so far the defense is outdoing the prosecution.

Correcting your mis-statement that he can't be prosecuted until after he is found guilty is hardly being “technical.”

I never said blacks are not pedophiles, but, as another commenter said, white males dominate the stats on this.

You certainly insinuated as much.

The bottom line is, at the end of this trial, the facts will be used to acquit or imprison MJ, not you and your pathetic arguments.

Or, the jury may hang and they retry him. If my arguments were so pathetic, you wouldn't be arguing with me

I never said you are a pervert. There you go again.

Again, you certainly insinuated as much.

RE: fred's post (March 11, ... (Below threshold)
AnonymousDrivel:

RE: fred's post (March 11, 2005 07:55 AM)
...This is not intended to be racist, but just reflects what is in the literature and stats. Don't blame me! I did not write the stats!

You also didn't present any. I'm afraid I need peer reviewed citations for this. Further, the citation cannot be one from a study financed by some "independent" special interest group. Respected universities only, otherwise, I'm not buyin' it.

hello anonymous drivel... (Below threshold)
Fred:

hello anonymous drivel

Just check the FBI website. Do some research on your own as well.

Julie, You just don't have... (Below threshold)
Lamont:

Julie, You just don't have any spine on your own. That's why you must use someone else to support you. What about your own independent brain? Oh yeah, you don't have one!

Even if the jury is hung. they still have to use the facts in the next trial either way, so what's your point?

You are confused because you really think that saying "you want him convicted". Let's say he's found to be innocent and the parents found guilty? Should he be convicted? You are truly confused. You have your order of operations backwards.
It's his word against the kids, but the only way it will be sorted out is by testing the evidence.

If you hate MJ because you think he's freaky what other celebrities do you hate because they are freaky? If you conclude he's a pedophile without proof (taking one person's word over another)you are an idiot. You want him convicted before the facts are all inl. You are definitely an idiot.

Fred: Once again, th... (Below threshold)
julie:

Fred:
Once again, the presumption of innocence only applies within the context of a courtroom. No one is saying because he is bizarre and eccentric he is a pedophile. But there are certain common behaviors among pedophiles and Jackson certainly has those. As to the witnesses being discredited, I doubt it. The judge will instruct the jury:

Discrepancies in a witness's testimony or between a witness's testimony and that of other witnesses, if there were any, do not necessarily mean that a witness should be discredited. Failure of recollection is common. Innocent misrecollection is not uncommon. Two persons witnessing an incident or a transaction often will see or hear it differently. You should consider whether a discrepancy relates to an important matter or only to something trivial.

Add on top of that, you have 2 young kids testifying before a packed courtroom about very embarrassing events. You chastise me for my opinions, yet you express your own. You keep making these blanket statements that he shd be given a fair chance, but offer no proof that he is being denied a fair trial. I offer opinion. You make false assertions as if they are the law and facts. I assume you couldn't come up with the stats you relied on.

Jed: Who said t... (Below threshold)
julie:

Jed:

Who said that rich celebrities are above the law? Wasn't it you. Your arguments are so weak, it's pathetic.

No, you did. You're too ignorant to even recognize a valid argument.

Fred: Yo... (Below threshold)
julie:


Fred:

You create your own conclusions. I never made any. You could use the stat, and say that is much less likely to see a black male pedophile than white, if you want to. Nothing more, like you seem to be getting at.

Sure you made conclusions. And where is the link to the stats you are relying on? Why won't you post it if it exists?

I found a vague statement in an online magazine by a fbi agent. I did not find any specific and detailed studies done by the doj, fbi, bps. I then realized that if they existed, you would have posted a link. You did not. Yet, you keep making references to these “statistics” to give false credibility to your arguments. So, post your links to these mythical statistics.

Lamont:If someone pe... (Below threshold)
julie:

Lamont:
If someone perjurers themselves, yes they should be prosecuted. But, just because a defendant is found ng is not evidence that a witness perjured themselves.

And, now here comes your "if you think Jackson is a pedophile you must be a racist meme". Couldn't see that coming a mile away! That isn't going to work on me or anyone else here.

Fred:

Just check the FBI website. Do some research on your own as well.

I checked the FBI website. There are no statistical reports on pedophiles broken by race and percentage. Caught you in a lie, Fred. If not, post a link.

Lamont: You jus... (Below threshold)
julie:

Lamont:

You just don't have any spine on your own. That's why you must use someone else to support you. What about your own independent brain? Oh yeah, you don't have one!

Are you referring to AD? Do you think AD can't have a view of his own? Applying your dumb logic, you must have 50% less of a spine then me since you need both Jed and Fred to help you! lol Thank you again for demonstrating YOUR lack of a brain!

Even if the jury is hung. they still have to use the facts in the next trial either way, so what's your point?

The point was to correct your mis-statement.

You are confused because you really think that saying "you want him convicted".

I'm confused by your sentence!

Let's say he's found to be innocent and the parents found guilty?

He won't ever be found innocent. The most he can hope for is not guilty. And, the parents are not on trial.

Should he be convicted? You are truly confused. You have your order of operations backwards.

Uh, you ask if he is found innocent [not guilty] should he be convicted? And you call me confused and say I have it backwards! lol!

It's his word against the kids, but the only way it will be sorted out is by testing the evidence.

Oh, there's a lot more evidence then their testimony.

If you hate MJ because you think he's freaky what other celebrities do you hate because they are freaky?

I dislike pedophiles. And, I'm not the one going on and on about people being freaky and celebrities. You are projecting your own, and your friend's, nonsensical statements and beliefs on me.

If you conclude he's a pedophile without proof (taking one person's word over another)you are an idiot. You want him convicted before the facts are all inl. You are definitely an idiot.

I don't know any intelligent person who believes he is not a pedophile. So, of course, that would exclude you and your friends.

RE: Fred's post (March 11, ... (Below threshold)
AnonymousDrivel:

RE: Fred's post (March 11, 2005 01:21 PM)
Just check the FBI website. Do some research on your own as well.

Actually Fred, I was hoping you'd present a link so that we could go over the same data. Nonetheless, the dataset (whatever it is), is probably too small and I think I'd remain a skeptic.

I suspect white males would be overrepresented in the U.S. because Anglo-Saxon is the statistically significant majority in this country. Go to Canada and you'll probably find about the same statistics. However, traverse non-European regions of the globe and you'll likely find a very different result. A "valid" conclusion, if such a behavioral conclusion can be determined due to the differing social/judicial mores/restraints around the world, would necessarily require the pooling of many countries' data.

I suspect that this (pedophilia) is a recessive, sex-linked chromosomal anomoly that is not determined or regulated by superficially autosomal gene expression. Unless someone has mapped it already, the best odds are that its phenotypic expression resides predominantly on either the X or Y chromosome. To that end, I doubt ethnicity plays much of a role. However, DNA and its expression are tricky things and who really knows the exact protein expression that causes one to do what they do.

Now, if you were to conclude that men were more likely than women to express this recessive trait and subsequent aberrant behavior, then that would seem much more likely based on our current understanding of genetics.

Mj is guilty as hell, suppl... (Below threshold)
frank from australia:

Mj is guilty as hell, supplying grog to the underaged, even if that prick gets off all other counts, he is still guilty of the supply of alcohol to kids, hope he goes down

Fans and supporters of MJ, ... (Below threshold)
frank from australia:

Fans and supporters of MJ, with several witness's and more to come in the trial, all stating that MJ had supplied alcohol to several persons under the legal age, Does this not bother you ??? Please answer this question, does it not seem strange to you, a man suppling alcohol to underaged people, that in its self is wrong, as a man (MJ) whom so calls loves children ?? I just wonder why a man would supply alcohol to a minor, without strings attatched (?) or the thoughts to do !!!!!!!!!




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