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A new Wizbang contest: rename the whackos!

Oliver Willis, who has garnered entirely too many links in the past, has irritated me again. He's taken to calling the Republican leadership "American Taliban."

This bugs me for a variety of reasons. For one, the most prominent real "American Taliban" probably agrees with Willis a lot more than he does with a lot of Republicans. For another... oh, hell, who cares. To cite more reasons is to give it far more credit than it deserves.

But I try not to meet anger with anger. Meeting it with facts is more successful, and with mocking derision more fun.

With that in mind, I'm announcing a "rename the whacko wing of the Democrats" contest. I'm talking about the Cousin Olivers, the Kossacks, the DUmmies, the Deaniacs.

The only rule I'm going to impose is that you try to keep it no harsher than PG-13. Senseless profanity is their hallmark, not ours.

To get things rolling, I'll toss out a few examples.

The Democratic Appendix -- utterly useless, until they flare up and threaten to kill their host.

The MPM (Masculine Porcine Mammalia) Wing -- because they're about as usefull as tits on a boar.

The Chappaquiddick Martyrs Brigade -- every time they seem to be on the verge of victory, they drive off the bridge and drown their hopes.

OK, that's three. Have at it, and winners should be announced Friday evening -- after Kevin gets his Caption contest going.

J.


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» The Waterglass linked with Media Matters Anti-Semitism Watch

Comments (174)

THC: Tinfoil Hat Coalition<... (Below threshold)

THC: Tinfoil Hat Coalition

Spring Loaded Anti-American... (Below threshold)
Jeff Carlson:

Spring Loaded Anti-Americans - The SLAA, no matter what happens its Americas fault, unless its something good, then America tried to stop it from happening.

The Federation of Fecal Gra... (Below threshold)
bullwinkle:

The Federation of Fecal Gray Matter.

I think they've done a bang... (Below threshold)
Nathan:

I think they've done a bang-up job of naming themselves: "Reality Based Blogger." After all, being based on something implies that you're not the real deal.

Based on a true story = not a true story but made to look close enough to try to fool you
Based on Reality = not reality but made to look close enough to try to fool you

"Ameriphobic" (plus your ch... (Below threshold)
Rob:

"Ameriphobic" (plus your choice of noun):

Example: Ameriphobic Leftists

The right (as in correct).<... (Below threshold)
Just John:

The right (as in correct).

Nathan,As real is ... (Below threshold)
ptg:

Nathan,

As real is to realistic, no?

Lets just call them "Istics"

cocaine base = crack... (Below threshold)
julie:

cocaine base = crack
based = high on crack

Put down the pipe, whackos!

Haha, that name is already ... (Below threshold)
Stankleberry:

Haha, that name is already being used by the people that are actually correct, Just John.

I think the phrase American... (Below threshold)
frameone:

I think the phrase American Taliban is a very imaginative and descriptive appellation. It very clearly situates the radical application of theology to governing that has long inspired Republican ideology. If there is a difference between the Taliban and the radical religious right wing in this country it's only a matter of degree. Rather than make up silly names in response, maybe you should all take a moment to really contemplate the culture you would inherit if the radical religious right had their way. Seriously, how many of you could get through the week without your Grand Theft Auto fix?

The Stupid Retarded Idiots.... (Below threshold)
Stankleberry:

The Stupid Retarded Idiots.

Frameone, George Bush just ... (Below threshold)
Stankleberry:

Frameone, George Bush just came to my house and took away my nudie magazines! We'd better start hoping that the US military gets defeated so I can get those back!

Stankleberry -- Exactly. Yo... (Below threshold)
frameone:

Stankleberry -- Exactly. You know what I'm talking about. Rick Santorum has made it abundantly clear that you can't be trusted to keep your hands off filth. It's the proper role of the government to tell you what to do with them.

Stank -- As to the defeat o... (Below threshold)
framone:

Stank -- As to the defeat of the American military -- I hope you understand, as the radical religious does, that every time you turn the page of a porn mag you hasten the defeat of freedom's virtuous march.

The Religious Right: gettin... (Below threshold)
circlethewagons:

The Religious Right: getting government out of your wallet and into your pants.

I don't know but if you mak... (Below threshold)
Paul:

I don't know but if you make one more post this week about Oliver Willis, Kevin is going to have to charge him for advertising!

P

My vote:Dumb-o-cra... (Below threshold)

My vote:

Dumb-o-crats

Seriously, why feed a fat t... (Below threshold)

Seriously, why feed a fat troll like Willis. He's a fat black Ted Rall without the shitty comic strip. Given his intellectual defecit, I'm amazed that he garners the amount of readership that he does, which should say something about the lefty blogsphere.

youre all fucking blind. T... (Below threshold)
social darwinism & creation science:

youre all fucking blind. The taliban, the iranian mullahs, the wahabis in Saudi Arabia-- all of them are right-wing religious fanatics.

here is america, we have a fringe group running this country that believe:
- that you will go to hell if you dont believe what they believe
- that sex is immoral and should be hidden
- that people who are unlike them (i.e. homosexuals) are sinners and need to have laws to limit their freedom enshrined in the fucking constitution to based on their particular religious beliefs
- that the media should be censored
- that evolution is not real
- that all people in this nation, regardless of whether or not they share the above-mentioned beliefs, should be subject to them nevertheless, basically because these religious fanatics say so...

its just a matter of degrees. Bush, Ashcroft, Falwell, Robertson, Dobson-- all these fucks would be in beards and headdresses, beating women who showed their faces and blowing up historical statues and monuments to other religions if they had grown up in Afghanistan.

Society to Organize Constit... (Below threshold)
Craig:

Society to Organize Constitutional Ignorance by Always Leaving the Intent of the Signers in the Trash. The S.O.C.I.A.L.I.S.T. Party. "We are from the goverment and we are here to help [you be separated from what you have earned so we can take your wealth to buy votes from someone who does not earn but votes for us]."

Poor lefties. Angry + stup... (Below threshold)
Stankleberry:

Poor lefties. Angry + stupid = comedy

Lilly-Livered, Left-Leaning... (Below threshold)

Lilly-Livered, Left-Leaning, Lenin-Loving Liberal Liars who can't resist Advocating Socialist-Whacko Desires!

(With the odd capitalization being a part of it.)

Well from the trolls postin... (Below threshold)
goosegg:

Well from the trolls posting....should be something like Conspiracy Mongers.

Defending the American Taliban comment....I must have missed the beheadings. You think they would show a story like that on CBS. But maybe there haven't been any beheadings.

I should throw in "YET" since, really, its all just a matter of degree.

SD&CS --Exactly. <... (Below threshold)
frameone:

SD&CS --

Exactly.

Whoever here agrees that it's perfectly appropriate for President Bush to refer to America as a Christian nation, you are probably a member of the American Taliban. Even if you want to modify the message and think it's appropriate for President Bush refer to American as a traditionall Christian nation, you are a junior member of the American Taliban.

We are a nation of many denominations and faiths. That is one of our greatest strengths as a people.

Does anyone here beleive that the Ten Commandments should be the basis for jurisprudence in America? If so, which commandments? Are you going tomake it illegal to covet? Are you going to make it illegal to worship any god but the one true god? If that's what you want, you are a member of the American Taliban.

Covet my ride and I will lo... (Below threshold)
goosegg:

Covet my ride and I will lop off your hand. Its just a matter of degree, right? Are we junior taliban if we don't condone lopping?

Interesting that [social da... (Below threshold)
Craig:

Interesting that [social darwinism & creation science] starts their comment with "you are all f***ing blind". That reminds me of a person saying "You six billion people of the world are all crazy...I am the only one that is sane!"

"Defending the American Tal... (Below threshold)
frameone:

"Defending the American Taliban comment....I must have missed the beheadings. You think they would show a story like that on CBS. But maybe there haven't been any beheadings."

It is a matter of degree. Do you think Sean Hannity would have any problem with broadcasting live Scott Peterson's execution in the name of deterrence and teaching a moral lesson in the awesome punishing power of the state?

Who here agrees that broadcasting state executions is a good idea to promote a healthy moral nation?

Dearest social darwinism & ... (Below threshold)
phin:

Dearest social darwinism & creation science,
Your rant is something that belongs more on the Deamoncratic Underground than on a blog with a PG-13 rating. Those of us who are able to speak without the use of explicitives also prefer not to read them. Do you kiss your daughter with that mouth? Never mind, you probably do.

I don’t really have any party name suggestions, except for a catch phrase of:
Hippies, Moon Bats and Liberals Oh My.

If you want some fun sign up to post on the Democratic Undergrounds website. I only lasted a couple of days before I was banned and my comments deleted.

Seriously, does one here re... (Below threshold)
frameone:

Seriously, does one here really think that the American media would stop at the prison gates if they were given the chance to broadcast the execution of Bin Laden (if we ever catch him) or some other terrorist? Would anyone here refuse to watch?

You are kinda missing the p... (Below threshold)
goosegg:

You are kinda missing the point, frameone. Are you in danger of being killed, maimed, or crippled for your beliefs or lack thereof? No. Thats why the equivalence doesn't work.

You previous comment is incoherent.

But wait a second. I said i... (Below threshold)
frameone:

But wait a second. I said it was a matter of degree. The same kind of intolerance that fuels the Taliban fuels the radical religious right in this country. You cannot deny that there are people in this country who argue that homosexuality is a serious threat to the very existence of this nation. Rick Santorum made a speech in the House in which he declared same-sex marriage as threat to the security of this nation. It is an all too small step from that kind of rhetoric to violence, official or otherwise.

Oh my...you've come down wi... (Below threshold)
Bucky Katt:

Oh my...you've come down with a Moonbat infestation, Jay Tea.

Maybe that's a potential name: Moonbat infestation.

I won't concede that point.... (Below threshold)
goosegg:

I won't concede that point. I will say that there are people that don't agree with that lifestyle. But the point, homosexuals were killed by the Taliban. Is that happening here? No.

that every time you turn... (Below threshold)
Greg:

that every time you turn the page of a porn mag you hasten the defeat of freedom's virtuous march.

frameone, every time you turn the page of a porn mag, President Bush kills a kitten.

Please, put down the porn. Think of the kittens.

"F.B.I."Festering ... (Below threshold)
Greg:

"F.B.I."

Festering Boils of Indignation

"Losers" encapsulates every... (Below threshold)
RW:

"Losers" encapsulates everything, IMO.

Ok, its a matter of degree.... (Below threshold)
goosegg:

Ok, its a matter of degree. Here we don't let same-sex partners receive survivor benefits. The taliban didn't let same-sex partners be survivors.

You are right. Its just a matter of degree.

It's interesting that every... (Below threshold)
Losing Faith:

It's interesting that everyone is refusing to answer frameone's questions where he's trying to make a point. Afraid it makes too much sense? Are you all starting to see (maybe still not agree with) how people could consider some on the Right to be the American Taliban? Is that why you refuse to answer?

"Rall's Retards"... (Below threshold)

"Rall's Retards"

We hope everyone enjoyed th... (Below threshold)
D. Carter:

We hope everyone enjoyed the moonbat interlude. Now, back to the contest.

The Academy of Lagado: Democrats turning cucumbers into sunshine and poop into porkchops since 1992 (see "Gulliver's Travels"; I particularly like the moniker because it was used - with typical inappropriateness - by the late, execrable Edward Said to describe the neo-cons).

Whatever they are, this thr... (Below threshold)
ptg:

Whatever they are, this thread is lousy with them. Did I say lice?

" Are you all starting to s... (Below threshold)
goosegg:

" Are you all starting to see (maybe still not agree with) how people could consider some on the Right to be the American Taliban?"

Yes, I see it. Its because you hate the right so much.

"I won't concede that point... (Below threshold)
frameone:

"I won't concede that point. I will say that there are people that don't agree with that lifestyle. But the point, homosexuals were killed by the Taliban. Is that happening here? No."

Is your head in the sand? Again, I said it's a matter of degrees. There is no question that homosexuals have been targeted for violence and murder in this country by private citizens. They're called hate crimes. I would argue that no decent person of any political stripe condones such behavior. But for the radical religious right to then turn around and argue against tougher penalities for hate crimes against homosexuals -- when they support such speciality penalties for crimes agains "pregant women" -- is a hypocritical , ideological move that sends the wrong message: targeting people for violence because of they are different from you is no different than any other crime. When in fact it is a special form of intimidation we call terrorism.

Nuclear DonkeysOr ... (Below threshold)

Nuclear Donkeys

Or more simply

Targets

Oh and Losing Faith, frameone, etc why not try confining your comments to a post/thread that has some relevancy to what you are talking about?

I feel you'd have better luck picking a thread that is devoted to the discussion of the "religous right" vs posting in one that is poking fun at the "loony left".

Ok, so the Religious Right ... (Below threshold)
goosegg:

Ok, so the Religious Right believes its same-sex marriage is wrong based on thier religious beliefs. The Left believes same-sex marriage is OK based on thier secular beliefs. The Right has prevented same-sex marriage from happening for now.

Frameone's argument is: Their disregard for the beliefs of others in preference for thier own beliefs proves they are American Taliban.

If the Left is able to get same-sex marriage recognized as a Constitutional right, thereby ignoring the beliefs of the Religious Right, would they then be considered American Taliban?

In your view, frameone, anyone that disagrees with you is a taliban. And that demonization puts you closer to being taliban than me.

Blogoshere rules: post link... (Below threshold)
goosegg:

Blogoshere rules: post links. Show me where the right is arguing against tougher penalties against homosexuals. Or are you talking 'relatively'? Are they arguing that a violent crime against a pregnant lady should carry a stiffer penalty than a violent crime against a homosexual?

If that is your argument, make your relative comparison to a different group, you know where it is a crime against one person. Link me up either way. Thanks.

PARASITES -Persons Against ... (Below threshold)
bullwinkle:

PARASITES -Persons Against Reasonable American Standards In Totally Everything Sensible.

1] Jimmy Carter Pol-Pot Gen... (Below threshold)
howard_dean_ate_my_shorts:

1] Jimmy Carter Pol-Pot Genocidal Maniac Support Coalition.

JCPPGMSC for short.

2] TWSOH - The Wrong Side of History.

3] AAA - Anschluss Appeasement Association.

4] ASM - Asylum Seekers of the Mind.

5] Knights of the Ku-Klux Klueless.

I think frameone might be m... (Below threshold)
Stankleberry:

I think frameone might be mentally retarded.

Oh I fell for it!! Crimes ... (Below threshold)
goosegg:

Oh I fell for it!! Crimes against pregnant women aren't hate crimes and can't compare!!

Its not like people are walking around saying how much they hate pregnant women and acting on it.

How about calling them:... (Below threshold)
Jim:

How about calling them:

Mooreites or Mooreons!

But wait a second. I sai... (Below threshold)
Nathan:

But wait a second. I said it was a matter of degree. The same kind of intolerance that fuels the Taliban fuels the radical religious right in this country.

Hello Pot, meet Mr. Kettle. I mean, if we're going to convict by matters of degree take a look at the left side of aisle:

Want to stifle free speech (campus speech codes) check
support racist policies (affirmative action) check
will use violence to further their aims (been to an anti-WTO protest lately) check
will fabricate history (CBS) check

Hmm.. so by matters of degree like FrameOne I think I'm correct in saying that the left have been overtaken by card carrying Nazis.

Ain't moral equivalence of psychotic proportions fun?

Another possibility would b... (Below threshold)
Jim:

Another possibility would be:

Willistards!

Hi! Is the place where the ... (Below threshold)
D. Carter:

Hi! Is the place where the contest is? It's kind of hard to tell with all this shooting going on.

Here are a couple:

The Green Cheese Belfry - where else would moonbats hang out?

The Sacred Geese - an allusion to a flock of geese that supposedly honked in the nick of time to warn ancient Rome of a sneak attack. I imagine the DU crowd sounding like this when they get really riled up, and they certainly seem to believe that they're here to save the day.

WHINE = Wildly Hateful and ... (Below threshold)
Cateagle:

WHINE = Wildly Hateful and Indignent on Nearly Everything

(with a slight tip o'the hat to Al Capp)

goosegg -- I ... (Below threshold)
frameone:

goosegg --

I don't have a problem with anyone's religious beliefs. I myself believe in a higher power and pray regularly. What I have a problem with are those people and organizations in this country who believe emphatically that their specific religious beleifs should form the basis of legislation in this country and should also dictate its standards of morality.
You are absolutley right to say that my support for same-sex marriage stems from my secular beliefs, my secualr belief in the founding principles of our Constitution. I beleive that all men are created equal and thay we all have a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Please note that these rights, as described in the Declaration of Independence, were endowed in men "by their Creator." Not "THE creator" and not "The God of Abraham" or "Jesus Christ." The declaration of independence recognizes religious plurality in this very phrase at the same time it implicitly endorses the positive values of faith in general as it embues the human spirit with its sense of value and self-worth. That's why I believe we should not legislate based on the teachings of a specific faith or religion. There are those in this country who want to do exactly that. I strongly disagree with that and believe that those who do are one step closer to the legilsative principles of the Taliban.

Let me ask some more questions: Who here beleives that women should receive the same pay as a man for doing the same job? Who here believes that both men and women are equally responsible for raising a child?

Dean's Neurot... (Below threshold)
TheEnigma:

Dean's Neurotic Coalition of Morons S/
crewballs andM
oonbats

The "Saint Pancake" Wing... (Below threshold)

The "Saint Pancake" Wing: Blind on ideology, flat on message, dead on relevance.

Ladies and Gentlemen I prop... (Below threshold)
Marty Byk:

Ladies and Gentlemen I propose they be named.

(drum roll please)

The American Nutzi Party.

**** extra credit suggestion. Their flag would bear the image of a pretzel. This would be a symbol of their logic.

As the issue of hate crimes... (Below threshold)
frameone:

As the issue of hate crimes. The radical right wing opposes legislation that adds extra penalities to hate crimes when it comes to sexual orientation because they beleive it constitutes grantins special rights to special groups of people. Then, in the same breath, they turn around and argue that extra penalties should apply to those who murder pregnant women. Why special penalties for one crime and not the other? Because they are legislating not based on universal human rights but on particular religious beliefs. Based on those beliefs, some people are more entitled to protection (that is if we consider extra penalties a deterrent) under the law than others. Why not allow extra penalties in both cases?

Wellllllll, if they INSIST ... (Below threshold)
bsp:

Wellllllll, if they INSIST on giving titles to the Republicans........lets see how the Democrats fare for official titles:

Byrd: Prince of Pork; Count of Klan; Sultan of Sheets; Knight of......well..."the night;" Cardinal of cross burning; Highness of Hanging
Kerry: King of Cong; Lord of Laos, Count of Cambodia; Viscount of Viet Nam
Kennedy: Baron of Gray Matter; Lord of Liquor; Count of Chevas; Duke of Drowning; Baron of Bridge
Biden: Potentate of Plagerism; Count of Copying
Clinton: Count of Cu*t (you and your PG rating); Sultan of Cigars; Lord of Lewinsky
Frank: Duke of Dick; Prince of Penis; Duke of Dong; King of Queens

The who?... (Below threshold)

The who?

Who here believes that w... (Below threshold)
Nathan:

Who here believes that women should receive the same pay as a man for doing the same job? Who here believes that both men and women are equally responsible for raising a child?

Ahh.. I get it. We're all knuckle dragging right wing zealots here.

Well, let me answer you questions one at a time:

Who here believes that women should receive the same pay as a man for doing the same job?

Well, I do. So does my wife, who made more than I did.

Who here believes that both men and women are equally responsible for raising a child?

Hmm, that's not so much a 'belief' than the real f**king world. I'm just as responsible for the sprog as my wife is. I change as many diapers, I feed, burp, play with as much as my wife. The only thing I don't do that she does is nurse, and that's because I lack the equipment.

Way to highlight your simplemindedness frameone. In your world anyone who doesn't believe in what you believe must a complete right wing nut job.

SoldierHaters... (Below threshold)
Greg:

Soldier
Haters
In
The
Hatefilled
Evil
Anti-American
Democratic Party

Frameone: Ok, I agree it is... (Below threshold)
KBiel:

Frameone: Ok, I agree it is a matter of degrees, 180 degrees to be exact.

I can't think of a good name at the moment, but I suggest that we declare an congregation of the LLL a "cognitive dissonance zone".

"Way to highlight your simp... (Below threshold)
frameone:

"Way to highlight your simplemindedness frameone. In your world anyone who doesn't believe in what you believe must a complete right wing nut job."

I'm sorry did I say that in regards to the last two questions? No I didn't. I raised those questions because, from my vantage point, I see a very influential movement among the radical religious right to return to traditional models of family and child rearing in which the husband is the bread winner and the wife stays home to tend to the children. Just spend an afternoon listening to Dr. Laura, the the implicit if not explicit message. Aside from the fact that for an increasing number of Americans this model is no longer economically tenable it positions women in a subordinate role that, while Biblically correct, flies in the face of basic universal human rights.

Nathan, you and I are in agreement on theses issue yet I could probably predict that when it comes to social programs designed to alleviate the strainon American working families -- affordable childcare, family leave legislation etc -- your conservative economic views place you far closer to the backwards agenda of the radical religious right. Why is that do you think and what are the implications for American families?

I think you all are pissed ... (Below threshold)
frameone:

I think you all are pissed because "American Taliban" is a far more descriptive and memorable epithet than any of the clunky chunks you've come up with here today. My goodness: "Soldier Haters In
The Hatefilled Evil Anti-American Democratic Party"?
It just rolls off the tongue don't it?

Gollums.Bec... (Below threshold)

Gollums.

Because "The presidency is ours, preciouss, yess it is, and we wants it, yess we does. Nasty little republicanses can't stop us, and we'll get back the House and the Senate, too, yes we will, precious..."

No, we're just pissed up be... (Below threshold)
bsp:

No, we're just pissed up because you are a moron

Settle down, frameone, you ... (Below threshold)
goosegg:

Settle down, frameone, you are coming unglued. Again, hate crimes and crimes against pregnant are two different classes of crimes. You can't say that kicking a gay man in the stomach is the same as kicking a pregnant woman in the stomach. Its the difference in ending one life or two.

Again, if you want to preposterous statements, provide proof. Link me up.

I raised those questions... (Below threshold)
KBiel:

I raised those questions because, from my vantage point, I see a very influential movement among the radical religious right to return to traditional models of family and child rearing in which the husband is the bread winner and the wife stays home to tend to the children. Just spend an afternoon listening to Dr. Laura, the the implicit if not explicit message. Aside from the fact that for an increasing number of Americans this model is no longer economically tenable it positions women in a subordinate role that, while Biblically correct, flies in the face of basic universal human rights.

Wow, if I apply your definition of equivalence to the same sex marriage issue, then advocates of same sex marriage must be really calling for weekly, government mandated homosexual orgies.

Let me try a different tack... (Below threshold)
frameone:

Let me try a different tack: Is there on person here willing to go on record and say that James Dobson is a tool? I mean seriously, who would you rather have a beer with Dobson or Howard Stern?

The Pig Sloppers... (Below threshold)
Stan25:

The Pig Sloppers

Billy Clinton Goats Gruff T... (Below threshold)
Sue Dohnim:

Billy Clinton Goats Gruff Troll Brigade - Building a bridge to the future, so they can live under it.

Conceding defeat already? ... (Below threshold)
goosegg:

Conceding defeat already?

I mean seriously, who wo... (Below threshold)
KBiel:

I mean seriously, who would you rather have a beer with Dobson or Howard Stern?

Dobson, definitely. He won't get sh*tfaced and he won't spend the whole evening leering at my wife.

The Infestation. Succinct ... (Below threshold)
mina3727:

The Infestation. Succinct and applicable.

PARASITES? Love it!<... (Below threshold)

PARASITES? Love it!

SH*THEADS? Love it, too!

For Frameone: "Soldier Haters In
The Hatefilled Evil Anti-American Democratic Party" come sout at "SH*THEADS."

And I'd rather dine with Dobson. I doubt his rude comments would start a bar fight. Stern is talented at what he does, but he caters to immature morons. I've grown past that stage.

I say call them "Republican... (Below threshold)
RR:

I say call them "Republican lite". They are only cynical of 50% of America. Being a Republican I assume that every dog out there is for him/herself. That's why we have the balance of power in gov't. It's also the way the legal system is setup. The far left claim to have altruistic motives sorry I can't buy it.

The Left Flank -- Like Soci... (Below threshold)
AnonymousDrivel:

The Left Flank -- Like Socialists in belief and hindquarters in action

Autonomic Agitprop -- Thoughtlessly reflexive and heavy on the drama

Shrinking Violence -- Like the withering flower (violet), the party membership contracts, gets uglier with time, and ironically lashes out with desperation

Vox Populess -- Caring not one wit about others, just the spread of selfish meme

Can we go back to the Dean halo now?

gooseg --The reaso... (Below threshold)
frameone:

gooseg --

The reason why hate crime legislation is important is because hate crimes by their nature impact more people than the actual victim of the crime. A Hate crime is, in essence, an act of terrorism, a crime intended to intimidate a group of people because of who they are. A hate crime against a homosexual is intended to intimidate and threaten all homosexuals. That's why it's deserving of special legislation. I'm not equating homosexuals and unborn children. I'm comparing the equation of two crimes that involve extenuating circumstances. In one case, the radical religious right (as a front in its war on abortion)thinks those extenuating circumstances shouldbe acknowledges by the courts and in another, it doesn't. There sole reason for this difference is religious belief. That's it.

"And I'd rather dine with D... (Below threshold)
frameone:

"And I'd rather dine with Dobson. I doubt his rude comments would start a bar fight. Stern is talented at what he does, but he caters to immature morons. I've grown past that stage."

Yes and Dobson's conspiracy-addled obsession with veiled homosexual messages in children's programming caters to mental giants.

With that in mind, I'm a... (Below threshold)
BumperStickerist:

With that in mind, I'm announcing a "rename the whacko wing of the Democrats" contest. I'm talking about the Cousin Olivers, the Kossacks, the DUmmies, the Deaniacs.

Violets -- It's the deepest shade of blue in the spectrum plus it's a tres wussy term of address. "Hey, Violet, I read your post..."

Well, James Dobson is at th... (Below threshold)
goosegg:

Well, James Dobson is at the pinnacle of your attack on the Religious Right aka the American Taliban. Now, if we apply transitive property, then you considered James Dobson an American Taliban when you started your rant.

We discussed it for a while and now, you think he is merely a "tool." That, my friend, is a 'win' in my column.

And concerning your hate crime argument...again, link me up. And the "front on abortion"....are you saying that if I kick a gay man in the stomach and he lives that I should be given a stiffer penalty than if I kicked a pregnant woman in the stomach and the fetus died?

It was no veiled message, i... (Below threshold)

It was no veiled message, it was intended as a clear message that homosexuality is normal and acceptable. You expect a religious leader to not object?

Did he threaten anyone? No.

Did he urge that someone should cut their throats? No.

Did he deliver a long string of curse words? No.

He said it was wrong. That's called free speech (of the type the FEC will soon find a way to ban.)

Baron Bodissey sez:"... (Below threshold)
Bucky Katt:

Baron Bodissey sez:
"Gollums.

Because "The presidency is ours, preciouss, yess it is, and we wants it, yess we does. Nasty little republicanses can't stop us, and we'll get back the House and the Senate, too, yes we will, precious..." "

Oh man..LOL! You made me spew my Kracklebar. And by G*d, they are just as bi-polar as Gollum.

How about HOMONORMATIVES?</... (Below threshold)
Master of None:

How about HOMONORMATIVES?

me thinks frameone best emb... (Below threshold)
itismedavid:

me thinks frameone best embodies the left-leaning, loons' logic procession - when confounded by the question at hand, make a sharp left and turn the conversation into a social stigma that you win by the indignation of "The People matter most and right-wingers are anti-people!"

As for the new name:

DEMS
Desperate, Emotional, Malevolent Stooges

Nathan, you and I are in... (Below threshold)
Nathan:

Nathan, you and I are in agreement on theses issue yet I could probably predict that when it comes to social programs designed to alleviate the strainon American working families -- affordable childcare, family leave legislation etc -- your conservative economic views place you far closer to the backwards agenda of the radical religious right.


Again, let make mountains out of molehills. If that's the case then its just as correct for me to say your liberal economic view place you far closer to the murderous policies of the communists. Excuse me while I throw my hands in the air and run around like a chicken with my head cut off...

"Frameone's a filthy communist.. frameone's a filthy communist... frameone's a filthy communist..."

There. I feel much better now. So, where were we again?

Why is that do you think and what are the implications for American families?

Short answer. I live in the hood. I see first hand exactly what welfare policies do. Care to come walk past a section 8 housing project with me after dark? How about dining at the bulletproof KFC around the corner? (Funny how its bulletproof when DC has outlawed handguns...)

I say again: Way to highlight your simplemindedness frameone. If I not only don't believe in the things you do affordable childcare, family leave legislation etc (and I may) but I don't believe in the means to achieve them that you do, I'm a family hating, right wing asshat, right?

Ah, to be young and stupi... er... naive again.

Let me try a different t... (Below threshold)
Nathan:

Let me try a different tack: Is there on person here willing to go on record and say that James Dobson is a tool? I mean seriously, who would you rather have a beer with Dobson or Howard Stern?

James Dobson's a MASSIVE tool. As is Howard Stern (and not because of his naughty talk, but because he's become completely boring/unfunny... now Opie and Anthony, there's a beer I'd pay for).

Oh, and frameone I'm one of those filthy atheists too.

Lets see, filthy atheist and voted for Bush. Don't let your head explode thinking about that one.

Bucky -- yeah, and when I p... (Below threshold)

Bucky -- yeah, and when I picture them in my imagination, they always look like Gollum. That fishbelly white complexion and all...

CBS may have had fabbed mem... (Below threshold)
Neo Logic:

CBS may have had fabbed memos but the story is true- GWB was a slacker in the guard. Evolution is a fact- people need to deal with it. While the American Taliban does not behead you, they dont mind sticking you in a pound-you-in-the-ass prison for burning a little weed and other sundry minor offenses. The American Taliban is also obbsessed with controlling wimmin folk and their bodies. Humanity does not occur at conception, but somewhat later...like maybe around when the Roe court thought it might. And why have courts at all since any ruling at all is usually the lawmaking creation of a black robed tyrant ?

PS I love guns and war and plenty of Leftys do too.

PPS the worm is already turning here in our glorious "ownership" paradise- just get ready to enjoy righties

Ok, we've all enjoyed playi... (Below threshold)
KBiel:

Ok, we've all enjoyed playing with the troll, but it's no longer fun. He won't stop humping Jay Tea's leg and I think he pissed on the rug. Time to send him outside.

Jay, your own title works j... (Below threshold)

Jay, your own title works just fine: WACKOS

I'll happily link to this p... (Below threshold)
JohnM:

I'll happily link to this post the next time I read the obvious companion piece to this one entitled "Why the left won't ever understand us, cuz all they ever do is call us stupid and label us." Good job team!

"PS I love guns and war and... (Below threshold)
goosegg:

"PS I love guns and war and plenty of Leftys do too.

PPS the worm is already turning here in our glorious "ownership" paradise- just get ready to enjoy righties"

Are you threatening violence against people with differing opinions? Hmm...and we are Taliban?

"PPS the worm is already tu... (Below threshold)
Bucky Katt:

"PPS the worm is already turning here in our glorious "ownership" paradise- just get ready to enjoy righties"

HAHAHAHA! I've seen your ilk at the range, and I, for one, ain't worried.

RE: JohnM's post (March 17,... (Below threshold)
AnonymousDrivel:

RE: JohnM's post (March 17, 2005 03:13 PM)
I'll happily link to this post the next time I read the obvious companion piece to this one entitled "Why the left won't ever understand us, cuz all they ever do is call us stupid and label us." Good job team!

First of all, this is a light-hearted "contest". Secondly, this is directed at a fringe subpopulation and not the Left proper. Finally, what's this team stuff? I never got a playbook... does that mean I was supposed to stay on the bench and never play? Why that's discriminatory! Where's my lawyer? She thinks I should start no matter how shoddy my slinging.

Anyway, try it! You'll like it. Come over to the dark side. And put down that water bottle.

Hmmm....Technically,... (Below threshold)
Rick:

Hmmm....
Technically, First I would like to point out that the United States was in part founded and settled (re-settled if you count Native-Americans ...who weren't really native but that's another argument...) by people who were very very religious and *gasp* conservative.

Somehow, we ended up with the nation we have today, despite all that religion.

The religious right is made out to be some sort of highly organized political wing of the Republican Party. Why? What about the religious left? Are they not a threat? I guess so long as they are Democrats its ok to go to church...

Matters of degrees is a worthless comparison. The political spectrum like all others separates people by degrees, that means Republicans, Democrats, Libertarians, Communists, Nazis, Greens, Fascists, Socialists, etc...

As for hate crimes. Hate crimes are typically used to define crimes committed against recognized and innately different minorities. I argue that Gays are not really a minority. If they are then so are people that are married (hetero that is), that are wealthy (talk about a big target of crimes), and just about anyone that has differing lifestyles. I would like to point out that there is as of yet any sort of genetic or scientific proof that Gays or Lesbians are "born different." I challenge anyone to prove otherwise. Straight men and women are denied the same right to marry people of the same sex as well. So much for discimination arguments (that by the way is a purely secular and logical observation). As for survivorship benefits of any kind and other various tax benefits denied gay partners...your best friends are conservatives since in terms of ideology we believe that most forms of taxes and social security style programs are unconstitutional. This means if those taxes and programs end there is no more discrimination. Oh but wait, in truth gays and lesbians want those privileges, however illgotten, so they vote Democrat in droves. There is soo much more...so little time.

replace "any" with "none" i... (Below threshold)
Rick:

replace "any" with "none" in last paragraph 4th sentence.

as for Contest...P... (Below threshold)
Rick:

as for Contest...

Party of Reverse Discrimination (PoRD) They poured their souls down the drain and hoped it would never clog.


Hmmm. PoRD Horde

Religious Discrimination at its Finest...RDAIT...ok they both suck but the message rings kinda true.

RDAIF hmmm cant type for cr... (Below threshold)
Rick:

RDAIF hmmm cant type for crap today..PG-13 allows crap right?

How about "The Party That I... (Below threshold)
OC Chuck:

How about "The Party That Is Allowed To Complain About Everything They Don't Like But No One Else Is"

Liberty is the ability to s... (Below threshold)
Synova:

Liberty is the ability to speak freely in the public square. That means Liberty requires hearing the things that make one uncomfortable. We have a multitude of voices, some debased like Stern, some angry like Dr. Laura. Public conversation means that everyone gets to speak, including Dobson. If you can't deal with a free society, go elsewhere. Lord knows that no one gave me the right to go through my day without being offended.

I think that people feel more alive if they are battling evil, and if the avialable evil isn't to their liking they make stuff up... like the Handmaiden's Tale. It's not politically acceptable to battle the evil of genocidal dictators, if you're a Dem, so errect the threat of religious prosecution, and then say simply hearing disapproval for a lifestyle is the same as being beheaded.

The fate of women in Afghanistan was a hot issue on the left... until the women in Afghanistan voted. It was the right that defeated the Taliban. The left could have taken equal credit but they're more interested in hating Bush. I suppose that shows priorities.

ParanoidAnti-America... (Below threshold)
OC Chuck:

Paranoid
Anti-American
Liberal
Elitist
Socialist
Terrorist-supporting
Inept
Nasty
Inebriated (for Ted Kennedy)
Angry
Nonsensical
Sociopaths

Blue-tards.... (Below threshold)
quiggs:

Blue-tards.

to NO logic, not neo logic<... (Below threshold)
TheEnigma:

to NO logic, not neo logic

To REFUTE the constant LIES spewed by the brain-dead moonbats about Bush's TANG service.

The Hill, a DC newspaper targeted at the political elite in the nation's capitol and hardly a bastion of conservative thought (although Byron York writes for National Review), has analyzed the new data released by Bush in 2004, and their analysis shows a much different picture than that painted by Kerry or the media:
The future president joined the Guard in May 1968. Almost immediately, he began an extended period of training. Six weeks of basic training. Fifty-three weeks of flight training. Twenty-one weeks of fighter-interceptor training.
That was 80 weeks to begin with, and there were other training periods thrown in as well. It was full-time work. By the time it was over, Bush had served nearly two years.
Not two years of weekends. Two years.
The National Guard requires its members to accumulate at least 50 points each year of service time in order to meet their obligation. Points are awarded for various kinds of duties, but the points are what matters when determining whether someone gave enough service for each year. The Hill calculates Bush's points for each year of his service (May to May):
1968: 253
1969: 340
1970: 137
1971: 112
1972: 56
1973: 56 (two months, discharged July 1973)
Bush served for five years, four months, but accumulated enough points to have covered 15 years of Guard service (over 750 points). More importantly, Bush served two years of completely active duty and two years of higher-than-normal reserve duty before scaling back, mostly due to his desire to work on Roy Blount's campaign and the phasing out of his aircraft. During his four years actively flying homeland-defense missions, he flew a notoriously cranky aircraft that hardly constituted "milk-run" duty.
Did George Bush see combat? No, a point that George Bush has often made himself. But he didn't join the TANG to be a weekend warrior, at least not for the first four years, which the media and the Kerry campaign skip over when trying to insinuate that Bush was (and is) some sort of coward. Did Bush take self-inflicted scratches and file phony documents to acquire 3 “purple” hearts to run back to the states and stab the truly honorable service men in the back? NO! , emphatically, NO!
The TANG records prove that George Bush met his obligations for his National Guard service and honestly earned his honorable discharge. Has john kerry signed a 180 so that we can apply the same level of review to his records to determine if he is being honest about the service he holds out as his primary qualification for the Presidency. NO! , emphatically, NO! Did john kerry receive a NEW discharge to replace the original LESS than HONORABLE discharge in his files, YES!, emphatically, YES!

Did Bush request to go to Viet Nam? YES, but he was turned down, because of a lack of flight hours. Was it likely that he would be sent to Viet Nam when he applied, IF he had sufficient flight hours, YES. Was he aware that he did not have sufficient flight hours, NO.

The French.The Ame... (Below threshold)
MMM:

The French.

The American French

The Americans Who Want To Be French-like

The Americans Who Want America To Be French-like

The Americans Who Want To Actually Be French But The Money Is To Good To Leave America

what does loving guns have ... (Below threshold)
Neo Logic:

what does loving guns have to do with threats ? Im just talking about 2006 elections- wishful ?

Maybe, but the worm tends to turn....hubris is out in force on the right

and by the by, whoever wants to visit Neo on the range, bring some $$ and we shall see....

Don't forget the Americans ... (Below threshold)
Rick:

Don't forget the Americans Who Want to French But Can't Speak It. or The Americans That Seek Classy French Status Because They Have No Class

And the Americans Who Want ... (Below threshold)

And the Americans Who Want to Take French Surrender Classes...

ENIGMA ? How you can belie... (Below threshold)
Neo Logic:

ENIGMA ? How you can believe your own tripe...

GWB was a slacker in the guard. He was a decent pilot,(better than decent even) but he basically quit when he wanted to. Not a single serving member from the time says otherwise. Who brought Kerry into it ? This is about CBS fabbing a story, when in fact the story is true, but some bits MAY have not been (still unproven)

The money shot of your attempt at revisionism (and the true joke of it) is this one:

"Did Bush request to go to Viet Nam? YES, but he was turned down, because of a lack of flight hours. Was it likely that he would be sent to Viet Nam when he applied, IF he had sufficient flight hours, YES. Was he aware that he did not have sufficient flight hours, NO. "

BWWAHHHAHHHAHHHAHHHHHAAAAA what a truly revolting bit of fantasy dis-information. They had NO USE for his skills in SE Asia because his flight hours were ALL in a type of A/C not in front line service. Poor Bush- he would have loved to have gone but they wouldnt let him !

Umm... to steal a band's na... (Below threshold)
Kalthalior:

Umm... to steal a band's name I've heard of but am completely unfamiliar with --

Insane Clown Posse

Better than
Lunatic Group of Fools

(LGF might cause some confusion)

Based upon the fact that th... (Below threshold)

Based upon the fact that the moonbats of the world are hypocritical, forceful, and out of touch with mainstream America, I give you their new party:

Social Hypocrites and Intolerant Tyrants (SHIT).

They can easily expand to Social Hypocrites and Intolerant Tyrants Heeding Extremely Abnormal Demands Swiftly (SHTHEADS).

AnonymousDrivel:Ok... (Below threshold)
johnm:

AnonymousDrivel:

Okay in the spirit of fun then. As a life long democrat my vote is for.

N.O.W. (National Organization of Women)

Let the hate mail begin ladies! :)

Heh...could take a cue from... (Below threshold)
Bucky Katt:

Heh...could take a cue from "Tripping the Rift"....

The Evil Clown Empire
Howard Dean as Darth Bobo.

It fits.

To borrow from Silver Bubbl... (Below threshold)
Rick:

To borrow from Silver Bubble:

Social Hypocrites of Intolerants...SHI... After all they never finish what they start.

I like this thread. You ha... (Below threshold)

I like this thread. You have a guy on the left (frameone) trying to engage in a civil discussion using logic and facts, and a sea of people on the right trying to come up with creative ways to insult their fellow man.

That says it all.

Ah Ken...did you bother to ... (Below threshold)
Bucky Katt:

Ah Ken...did you bother to read the topic? Rename the Wackos. I know you might have a reading comprehension problem and all...but this wasn't the correct forum for Frameone's off-topic discussion.

Now run along....go read your Anne Rice, "Beauty's Punishment" novel or whatever else it is you do.

civil discussion...yeah I g... (Below threshold)
Rick:

civil discussion...yeah I guess...how is the rest of it not civil? As for the "sea of people on the right," how do you know where we are? Maybe we just don't like Lefty Dems. Speaking of not liking or poking fun or insulting my fellow man...how is that not civil. I'm not calling for violence. I'm not calling for any sort of punishment. Hmmm sounds like insulting people is pretty civil.

Oh and wait this is a discussion thread of a post on name calling. And its about name calling in kind. Gee talk about irrelevance and pure lack of logic or context.

Actually, in what amounts t... (Below threshold)
Faith+1:

Actually, in what amounts to an ironic twist, if you look at the beliefs of the Left comapred to a particular party of the early 30s you'll find an uncanny resemblence to a party they are so quick to accuse others of being...

National Socialist...

RE: johnm's post (March 17,... (Below threshold)
AnonymousDrivel:

RE: johnm's post (March 17, 2005 04:24 PM)
N.O.W. (National Organization of Women)

Let the hate mail begin ladies! :)

Are we switch-hitting today? ;) By all means, the plate is yours.

frameone's "civil discussio... (Below threshold)
Synova:

frameone's "civil discussion" amounts to stereotypical fear mongering toward religious conservatives and a plea for intolerance toward religious speech.

Rather's error, other than not checking his sources, was in believing that the "truth" of his story was significant to anything at all. People who have served in the military, active duty or week-end warrior, don't shrug it off because they love Bush. They shrug it off because it has no significance. (Baldilocks has an excellent post explaining why... it's on her side-bar, scroll down.)

A idfference of degrees ind... (Below threshold)
frameone:
A idfference of degrees ... (Below threshold)
KBiel:

A idfference of degrees indeed.

I don't agree with Volokh on this one, but he's talking about offing a guy who raped and killed 20 kids. Not exactly talk about rounding up democrats and executing them. That is unless you think the difference between democrats and murdering pedophiles is just one of "degrees".

"Tits on a boar"????????</p... (Below threshold)
firstbrokenangel:

"Tits on a boar"????????

That is rude and crude, Jay, and female boars probably do have teats for their offspring. Man, get a grip.

Cindy

female boars<p... (Below threshold)
Nathan:

female boars

Now that's comedy gold.

semi OT, bored, noticing tr... (Below threshold)
Wanderlust:

semi OT, bored, noticing trolls...so I'll dive in:

Noticed that a troll brought up the issue of "hate crimes" here.

It's quote:

The reason why hate crime legislation is important is because hate crimes by their nature impact more people than the actual victim of the crime. A Hate crime is, in essence, an act of terrorism, a crime intended to intimidate a group of people because of who they are.

Ok, I honestly don't understand it. According to the Constitution, everyone has a right to enjoy "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness", with the understanding that one's right to enjoy those things extends only so far as to not infringe upon another's right to do the same.

Therefore, if I assault someone or otherwise cause physical harm, or I steal from them, or harm property belonging to them, or I cause them financial harm of some kind (e.g., direct theft, slander/libel, IP theft, etc.), I have infringed upon their right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

Therefore, why should the reason I do those things matter? Why should my reason have to be viewed as to whether it is a crime of "hate", vs. a crime to begin with? And why should the reason or motive afford the victim some kind of special status with the courts?

If I am a victim of a crime, I don't care why the perpetrator did what he/she did. All I care about is justice and restitution, to the degree that those two are possible.

So can anyone explain to me the need for a special status of criminal motive, based on "hate"...?

That is, can anyone explain this need in a logical fashion, without the need to delve into the realms of belief or ideal?

Here is a G-rated name:... (Below threshold)

Here is a G-rated name:

Balderdash Democrats

- In honor of Brit Hume, who frequently uses the word balderdash, which means nonsense.

The back of the Donkey Part... (Below threshold)

The back of the Donkey Party/The Ass of the Donkey Party.

DonkeyCrats - slow, stubborn, and unwilling to engage in human conversation.

GrouchoCrats. ("Whatever it is, we're against it")

Posted by: Wanderlust at Ma... (Below threshold)
AnonymousDrivel:

Posted by: Wanderlust at March 17, 2005 05:56 PM
So can anyone explain to me the need for a special status of criminal motive, based on "hate"...?

Without addressing every circumstance, I'd say that much of the time it is a way to demagogue without appearing to do so. To some effect, it's cheap politicking.

female boars<p... (Below threshold)
KBiel:

female boars

Now that's comedy gold.

Hey, they could be transvest ...er... transex ...er... trans-something-or-other.

So can anyone explain to... (Below threshold)
KBiel:

So can anyone explain to me the need for a special status of criminal motive, based on "hate"...?

Because most murderers kill their victims out of love?

Alright, responding to fram... (Below threshold)
CrowScape:

Alright, responding to frameone's arguement:

Republicans want their morality legislated by the state legislatures.
Democrats want their morality legislated by the Federal Judiciary.

Which is more like the Taliban again?

Wanderlust summed it up. Eq... (Below threshold)
rick:

Wanderlust summed it up. Equality for all means equality not special status. If one expects to achieve equality in any terms on any given issue, legislation that in effect grants exemptions or special status, or special consideration is antithetical and doomed to fail its ultimate objective.

The intent of a criminal simply doesn't change the facts involved in a crime, whether it be murder, robbery, fraud, or any other of a myriad of criminal activities.

The Dead Party... (Below threshold)
wayne:

The Dead Party

Whigs.... (Below threshold)
Al:

Whigs.

Self-hating Americans... (Below threshold)
avenueB alum:

Self-hating Americans
The Sorehead Left
The league of teflon minds
Euronormative
Reality-challenged Democrats
The Tolerance Mullahs
Soft-core jihadi
Fifth column Liberals
Short order minds
The Eurowannabee Left
the Clinton Youth
Swarmtroopers
The MSM Mafia
The Cultural Gestapo
Analog Brownshirts
The American Baathist Party

"Republicans want their mor... (Below threshold)
frameone:

"Republicans want their morality legislated by the state legislatures.
Democrats want their morality legislated by the Federal Judiciary."

The use of the phrase American Taliban is not a slap at religion or religious people. It is an indictment of those you would impose their specific religious beliefs on the nation as a whole. I don't believe this is consistent with the will of the founding fathers.
My own support for same-sex marriage is not founded on religious beliefs. It is founded on my understanding of the humanist principles on which this country was founded: that all men are created equal and have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I am not asking state courts to legislate the issue. I expect state courts to make thier decisisons based on the Constitution and the principles on which it was founded.
If you think that gay people shouldn't be allowed to marry because God has decreed homosexuality a sin you are attempting to impose your religious beliefs on others through legislation.
If you beleive this, tell me why the first commandment shouldn't be made the law of the land. What's the logical rational difference?
Why would you attempt to legislate one portion of the Bible but another? What's the distinction you are making?


See? When faced with facts... (Below threshold)
TheEnigma:

See? When faced with facts the LUNATICS of the left spew lies. FACTS about Bush's service are trashed yet this lunatic ignores the FACTS that kerry used bogus purple hearts to RUN from action. Don't forget, his commanding officer REFUSED to endorse one of his requests for a purple heart. No one has yet offered a legitimate explanation for how he managed to get it.

kerry has still REFUSED to sign Form 180 to release his military records. kerry received a LESS than Honorable discharge. This was REPLACED by a disharge stating that Honroable in 1976; 3 years after his OFFICAL discharge. The MSM has REFUSED to report these facts. WHY? They don't want the public to know the TRUTH.

And that Lunatic of the left dares to question the service of Bush.

As for Bush's not going to Nam, I was in a position to know what aircraft was being phased out of the SE Asia theater in the early 1970s. This information was NOT forwarded to the various units until all of the logistics had been worked out. Unknown to ANG units, the 102 (Bush's aircraft) was among those being phased out of Nam.

There is no question tha... (Below threshold)
julie:

There is no question that homosexuals have been targeted for violence and murder in this country by private citizens. They're called hate crimes.

God knows woman are targeted for violence and murder in this country. Guess who has the higher rate of attacks, woman or homosexuals ? Yet, you're yapping about special protection for one and not the other. Hypocrite.

I got a big big laugh when in order to attack Bush in the 2000 election the left was using James Byrd as the poster boy for the need for federal hate crimes. Right. In exchange for testifying against the other two in order to make the case one guy got life without possibility of parole. The other two got death. And you moonbats felt that demonstrated the need for increased punishment? Death, plus? What more could you do? Execute the defendant's families? How very Taliban of the left

There was never a need for federal hate crime legislation. The Federal Sentencing Guidelines provided for hefty increases in sentencing. Once, mandatory, now they are advisory, which only means that any fact relied on to increase the sentence must be found true by a jury BYRD.

So, there was/is never any need for hate crime legislation. It was/is just another lie by the left. It's crap like this that made me stop voting democrat, moonbat.

"The Stupid Retarded Idiots... (Below threshold)
Rusty Shackleford:

"The Stupid Retarded Idiots."

Jesus, why don't you just say "big ol' poopyhead" and get it over with?


The Algonquin Round Table this ain't...

The Algonquin Round Tabl... (Below threshold)
Dorothy Parker:

The Algonquin Round Table this ain't...

Type dirty to me, Rusty. You know how I like it when you pound those keys real ... real ... hard.
Harder!
Harder!!
Harder!!!

E.B.S.I.D.Person 1... (Below threshold)
Darby:

E.B.S.I.D.

Person 1: Hi, I'm the conservitive republican that runs the EBSID, I was wondering if you would like to join?

Person 2: EBSID? What's that?

Person 1: Earth-Bound Search for Intelligent Democrats, it's a research company that is trying to, well, find Intelligent Democrats.

Person 2: I want to join! How much is membership?

Person 1: Membership is free, our initial research has shown that there is no evidence of such a thing, but we keep trying. We do however accept donations.

The use of the phrase Am... (Below threshold)
Patrick Chester:

The use of the phrase American Taliban is not a slap at religion or religious people. It is an indictment of those you would impose their specific religious beliefs on the nation as a whole.

Odd, I thought it was a slimy attempt to smear people you didn't like by comparing them to a group of religious bigots.

julie wrote regarding James... (Below threshold)
Patrick Chester:

julie wrote regarding James Byrd's murderers:
In exchange for testifying against the other two in order to make the case one guy got life without possibility of parole. The other two got death. And you moonbats felt that demonstrated the need for increased punishment? Death, plus?

Actually, it's pretty inconsistent of the left since the usual line regarding Bush and executions were whining about the amount of convicts put to death when he was governor of Texas. I don't recall hearing them complain about the two you mentioned above being sentenced to death.


The Islam-o-crat Wing... (Below threshold)
Cletus Van Damme:

The Islam-o-crat Wing

Rusty: "Big ol' poopyheads... (Below threshold)

Rusty: "Big ol' poopyheads."

I like it.
I like it a lot.

<a href="http://www.hogonic... (Below threshold)
-S-:
You guys know the real iron... (Below threshold)

You guys know the real irony here? frameone actually has a point. There have been many, many areas in American (and Western) civilization that have been drastically altered by the influence of Judeo-Christian ethics and Religious values. Problem is, he sees this as a bad thing.

A quick overview of some of the most obvious facets of daily life would include the abolition of slavery; equal rights extended towards women, from education to suffrage; the freedoms of speech and assembly; laws making murder, rape, theft, and vandalism illegal; the policies requiring conservation and protection of natural resources; and numerous other areas as well.

The problem lies in the fact that Christianity has the audacity to declare some things "wrong." That doesn't play well to a generation whose parents raised them as insolent little brats, accustomed to getting everything they wanted, right away.

On one hand, it's amusing to hear the juvenile rants of the Left, but on the other, it's just plain sad.

So go ahead, frameone. Consider what you propose--to remove all influence of Christianity from American society. I offer that the entirety of the Ten Commandments that you seem to so deeply loathe can be summed up in two simple statements: Worship God only. Treat others (and others' property) with courtesy and respect. The result of following those two guidelines is peace and order; the converse is anarchy.

And within those two statements is the very reason why a true Christian theocracy will never exist. When a group like the Taliban imposes upon a people a system of theology that, in their eyes, honors the first statement, they neglect and violate the second.

Now, to answer a question you proposed regarding homosexual marriage: First off, I don't think the federal government has any business in deciding who may and who may not marry. That is a matter for the individual states to decide. Of course, we haven't had any states' rights since before the War Between the States (I sincerely hope you haven't bought the lie that the primary issue then was slavery, but you most likely have). If, however, the "humanist principles" upon which you stand supports homosexual marriage, could you not hold the same argument to support a man's right to marry his pet chicken? What about a twelve year old girl's right to marry her grandfather? Oh, what the hell--if you can find someone who'll say the right things, why not marry your sofa? Oh, wait a minute, though. There's a huge problem I almost forgot. The concept of marriage originated in the Bible. In many cultures devoid of Christian influence, wives are merely property to be bought, sold, or traded at will. The idea of two people entering into an equal union is ultimately a Christian principle. So let's evaluate for a moment: do we want Christian influence or not?

Why, indeed, frameone, would you want to treat as valid and good one portion of the Bible but not another?

Delusional Idiot People Sup... (Below threshold)
bullwinkle:

Delusional Idiot People Supporting Hatred and International Terrorism Surreptitiously aka D.I.P.S.H.I.T.S.

ENIGMA THATS BULLSHIT... (Below threshold)
neologic:

ENIGMA THATS BULLSHIT

Why bring up Kerry at all ? Contest is over. Dead Letter. Nobody cares. Does Kerry pumping his service mean that Bush gets a pass too ?

Has nothing to do with GWB slacking, which he did. Everyone knew by '67 that the 102 would not see any action in SE Asia; all they did was some standby work for bomber escort and after that they were not even considered for action.

If GWB wanted to go to 'Nam he damn well could have. Go hit your bong again and tell us another one; maybe about the time GWB wanted to get on the Iran Hostage mission but Carter would not let him ?


Hmm, frameone quoted my pos... (Below threshold)
CrowScape:

Hmm, frameone quoted my post, yet his response has nothing to do with it. What is the proper thing to do in this situation?

BoDiddley and others: the ... (Below threshold)
-S-:

BoDiddley and others: the troll is upset with a fear-driven and wrongful lack of respect and regard for the Constitutionally bestowed Freedom of Religion that it's fellow citizens enjoy (as could the Troll itself) because of the issue of homosexuality.

It's sad to continue to harp on this one-note jigjag, but the issue of homosexuality is what seems to (read this thread for great examples) drive many on the Left, the entire Left.

They appear time and time and time again on thread after thread after thread, abandoning any relevancy to the thread issues themselves and then jigjag around the issue of resentment to and about society in some relevance, if not direct correlation to, the issue of homosexuality, veiled first in one outrage then another and another and when questioned more finely, eventually let loose the issue of homosexuality and resentment about "religious" values because the issue of homosexuality fuels their emotions, separating them from sense.

Just start with the thing itself in the future and save everyone the subtle layers in getting to the point. I'm getting a wee bit more than tired of these trolling about homosexuality in reference to dissing anyone/all religious values held by nearly anyone just because homosexuals and proponents can't handle the Freedom of Religion enjoyed by Americans.

Amazing that a didactic, forcefully rejecting theorist not based in realities can attempt to force dogma onto others and call those upon whom the force is attempted as being "The American Taliban." Think about that, isn't that what the Taliban actually have done? As in, if there's anything in America resembling the Taliban, it is this element among the Left that insists on nonsense and intolerance, just because that's the only way they can get a point across: forcing blind acceptance on anyone/everyone out on demand.

Frameone, you have my prayers.

Hey, Wizbang guy! Can't you... (Below threshold)
D. Carter:

Hey, Wizbang guy! Can't you set out some troll motels here in the comments section?

Argh...how a thread about a... (Below threshold)
-S-:

Argh...how a thread about a contest that began with some humor can so degenerate by a few trolling here to inflame and avoid discussion (amusing deceit referring to frameone as attempting discussion, completely defying the illogic of frameone's behavior, this thread, but that's what trolls do, all and each on this thread)...anyway, about the issue of Bush and Kerry and their military records:

Bush served and received an honorable discharge.

Kerry resisted service and received a dishonorable discharge, and then has maintained a lie about his full history time and time again.

Bush and substance abuse: a lot of people have experienced some period(s) of substance abuse; what is important is when a person, all persons affected, recognize their problem and change their behaviors and character. Bush did this. Everyone else then has a chance to form different opinions about changed character over time and in Bush's case, people have done that. I can't see holding his past failures up as constant, when they are in the past. It's important at some point to stop listening to the language of failure and reject negative reinforcement, about other people and about yourself.

Kerry...on the other hand...has never admitted to any period of being unduly influenced by substances so it's left for most of us to adjudge the person's character based upon his quite unremitting, unrepentant, unchanged character. As in, what he began as, he has continued as and that includes his earlier opposition to the United States (and proven bad behaviors about that to include meeting with the enemy while enlisted during a time of war, without sanction or order, quite the actions of a traitor and quite the actions of a dishonorable person in service, earning dishonorable discharge if not incarceration, which in my view, incarcertation Kerry should have received for his behaviors while enlisted)...he's maintained false pretenses about his character and even paraded his false pretensese as being "heroic," which insults the very nature of his citizenship and ghastly service in the military and Senate afterward. In my veiw, Kerry epitomizes the Ugly American, someone who maintains tightfisted control over a finely constructed life of deceit and betrayal and him running for the Presidency under such terms of character was the ultimate insult to our America as country.

There's just no comparison between the two men (Bush and Kerry) as to their character and I think I better understand the mood President Bush was in during that first "Presidential Debate" appearance when being required to stand on a stage in the presence of Kerry, while Kerry endured in all his grim, dishonest 'glory.' to the contrary, Kerry, the man, owes the United States an apology and some time in the pen.

Kenneths... (Below threshold)
McCain:

Kenneths

Me thinks "frameone" is a l... (Below threshold)
jhow66:

Me thinks "frameone" is a liitle on the "happy" side.

The CAGEMsC - ommu... (Below threshold)
Matt:

The CAGEMs

C - ommunits
A - ppauling
G - ay
E - vil
M - inoritities

Leftists Against the Filthy... (Below threshold)
Newman:

Leftists Against the Filthy Wolfowitz

or should it be

National Socialists Against the Filthy Jews?

Ask Oliver Willis.

Dem-no-crats... (Below threshold)
Stuart:

Dem-no-crats

The Taliban is running this... (Below threshold)

The Taliban is running this country now??

Where are all the hot chicks in burkas?

The Preponderance of Underg... (Below threshold)

The Preponderance of Underground Socialist Sycophants Imagining Evil Schemes

PUSSIES

It's PG13!!! Their logo is... (Below threshold)

It's PG13!!! Their logo is a declawed kitten with it's little bandaged paw raised and spitting like Toulouse in "Aristocats."

What were you thinking...GOSH!

F.L.E.M.'s : Far Left Eliti... (Below threshold)
DD:

F.L.E.M.'s : Far Left Elitist Morons

Socialists and Communists ... (Below threshold)
bullwinkle:

Socialists and Communists United with Morons. SCUM

I still think they should b... (Below threshold)
Jim:

I still think they should be called either:

Mooreons

or

Willistards

:)

Deludicrats.... (Below threshold)
jmaster:

Deludicrats.

Upon re-reading my anti-tro... (Below threshold)

Upon re-reading my anti-troll tirade, I did come up with what I consider to be a particulary appropriate descriptive moniker:

"LIBs"

Leftist Insolent Brats

How about:Knuckled... (Below threshold)
Jim:

How about:

Knuckledragging Mouth Breathing Hairy-toed Troglodite Freaks

I like that one, its got that extra little something that makes it special.

American Taliban? Quit whin... (Below threshold)
Far North:

American Taliban? Quit whining, fer Christ sake. Didn't Robertson, or was it Falwell, say that Americans were to blame for 9/11 because they didn't worship Falwell's god?

Well heck..I thought we des... (Below threshold)
Bucky Katt:

Well heck..I thought we deserved 9-11 because we didn't build enough health care and child care facilities in third-world countries...in the world according to Patty Murray. /sarcasm off

Asshat.

The Moonbat guano is getting deep here.

I'd just like to thank Jay ... (Below threshold)
Mark:

I'd just like to thank Jay for promoting the use of the phrase "American Taliban". That phrase has been in use for over a year now but it really hasn't taken hold. It needed that extra push. I think Jay just gave it that push.

Thanks!

"Our problem is with ... the religious extremists ... who want to destroy everybody who doesn't agree with them. I see them as betrayers of the fundamental principles of conservatism. A lot of so-called conservatives today don't know what the word means. (1994)" -- Barry Goldwater

Typical of the Lunatic Left... (Below threshold)
TheEnigma:

Typical of the Lunatic Left.

Take a threat on one topic, spew lies about Bush and then denoune the fact that someone refutes the Lunatic Lies and WHINES about stating FACTS about kerry's REFUSAL to sign Form 180, his Highly Questionable 3 Purple Hearts and his FRAUDULENT Honable Discharge dated 3 Years after his Offical Discharge.

BTW, NO Logic, I had to look up the word bong. Unlike you I don't live in a drug induced haze and have had no desire to even know the terminology used by drug addicts. Remember, its the democrats/liberals who have fought virtually every attempt to remove drugs from our society, NOT Republicans/Conservatives.




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