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Bush Set To Sign Schiavo Bill

From The Baltimore Sun and Orlando Sentinel

WASHINGTON - Using emergency powers, congressional leaders set the stage Saturday for the House and Senate to pass legislation today aimed at restoring Terri Schiavo's feeding tube.

Meanwhile, the White House announced late Saturday that President Bush will make return to Washington from his Crawford, Tex., ranch so that he can be available as Congress considers the case in a special Palm Sunday session.

"The president intends to sign legislation as quickly as possible once it is passed," spokesman Scott McClellan said, emphasizing that time was critical.

The unprecedented congressional action, which involved a series of arcane legislative maneuvers, came hours after Mary Schindler pleaded with politicians to save the life of her severely brain damaged 41-year-old daughter.

Republican leaders announced they had reached an agreement on a bill that would allow Schiavo's case to be reviewed by federal courts and that could restore her feeding tube as early as Monday. The bill only applies to Schiavo's case.

House Majority Leader Tom DeLay said of Terri's case, "We should investigate every avenue before we take the life of a living human being, that's the very least we can do for her."


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Comments (55)

Can't wait to see the moonb... (Below threshold)
Julie:

Can't wait to see the moonbats flip out over this. (

If by "moonbats" you mean t... (Below threshold)
rancid:

If by "moonbats" you mean the 98% of Americans (according to a Fox News poll) who think the decision over ending her life should not be made by the government, then you're not going to have to look very far to see them. But please, let us continue to use "arcane legislative maneuvers" to interfere with peoples' lives and their deaths.

Then I'm one of those moonb... (Below threshold)
firstbrokenangel:

Then I'm one of those moonbats, Julie.

This totally gotes against the Living Will and the DNR and is a huge mistake on the lawmakers part. President Bush's part and Florida. If this passes the "dying with dignity" will no longer exist.

If there is anyone out there who does not understand brain dead, vegetative state, brain stem death, then email me personally and I'll explain it to you fully. It's not what you see on tv.

Cindy

I see Brian has a new name.... (Below threshold)
been there:

I see Brian has a new name.

1st B A, what living will?

I noticed with interest the... (Below threshold)
puppets:

I noticed with interest the very cruel and contrarian to "liberal" positions posters at Kos are taking on this. Funny how Dems now are in constant attack mode and reflexively take a contrary position to Republicans and religious people (fundies, they call them) who they seem to see as enemies, on virtually ANY subject. The hostility is amazing. They seem to think the REPUBLICANS will pay a political price for 'interfering' in this case, not the Dems for seeming heartless.

- 1st BA - My position on t... (Below threshold)

- 1st BA - My position on this whole sordid mess is shes been alive for 15 years with no rep in court in her behalf, being hermitted away from any objective view by a hubby who has lived with another woman for 7 years and has two children by her and has never answered a single question concerning Terri's "accident", and subsiquent mistreatment for the wrong problems. I'm sure He would love to have to cough up the 1 mill hes spent on everything under the sun but its intended purpose to support any sort of therupy for his "wife". Add to that judge Greers one man god campaign and the murky leftist "euthanasia" groups behind the scenes, and I can't think of enough reasons to throw the national spotlight on what may well turn out to be legalized murder....

- If shes given her day in Federal court and everythings as the "deathers first" claim then fine. Pull the tube. Six more months to sort it all out won't make a damn bit of difference except just maybe it will. Either way just the "rush" to get her in the ground should be enough to raise your antenna's. Especially with your experience. I doubt you'd premote legal murder for any reason. If thats not whats going on then no harm no foul.

I admit, I'm confused by th... (Below threshold)
Rob Hackney:

I admit, I'm confused by this one. I'm all for executing criminals but...

This one should be left UP TO THE GODDAMN FAMILY in my eyes. I'm for smaller govt. Don't want them to micromanage everything. I know my President is just doing what he thinks is right, but c'mon y'all, she's a vegetable. None of my business.

I don't want the government... (Below threshold)
Mark Clifton:

I don't want the government to "micromanage everything" either. But I do want the government to protect LIFE, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness.

Why hasn't Terri had a PET scan or an MRI? Why hasn't therapy been attempted? If she's truly a "vegetable," nothing would be lost but a little time. So what?

But if Terri has any consciousness at all - and the evidence is affirmative - then the government definitely ought to override this local judge.

BTW, Judge Greer and husband Michael want Terri to die of THIRST. That's what will kill her long before starvation. This is the worst sort of torture imaginable.

Just to head off the reflex... (Below threshold)
AnonymousDrivel:

Just to head off the reflexively inevitable: this is Anonymous"Moonbat"Drivel. Now that that nonsense is out of the way, on with the points.

Keywords: "emergency powers", "special Palm Sunday session", "unprecedented congressional action", "arcane legislative maneuvers"

And we obsesses with activist courts? I don't want to hear one word when a customized law is created especially for you on a whim to intervene and supercede your most personal decisions that already have law backing your position. This is an obscene abuse of government powers and the courts will strike it down as unconstitutional. Thank goodness will still have a separation of powers to check this galling and offensive powerplay by opportunistic politicians.

To narrow the focus a bit, where have these "concerned" Legislators been for the past 15 years? They couldn't manage to convene over that span to produce new legislation to redefine advance directive law? They obviously didn't and don't trust the states to handle it... so again I ask, "Where have they been?". They manage to drag in Major League Baseball because it's "for the kids". How about dragging in people of import on material of substance in a timely manner because it's "for every American"? I guess we'll see another trumping of State law by Federal law in short order should this pass. Then the "activist" courts will "intervene", again and of necessity, and we'll go through another round of histrionics.

I'm seeing lots of hypocrisy here as we invite the Federal government to insert its camel nose into our personal tent. And we talk ad nauseum of reigning in an invasive and expanding Federal government that too often trumps our individual rights. I love it.

To narrow things even more, I hope everyone of you has your living will and advance directives written down in indelible ink and laminated in thick plastic. I hope further that you and your family are in each other's good graces. I hope even more that fate smiles on you too. If these things don't line up right, some disgruntled family member may decide that your laminated papers are trumping their exploitable token and raise that issue with a "concerned" Legislator. Who knows... you might end up with a special law created just for you and in your honor. Written directives? We don' need no stinkin' directives, and who are you to tell us we do? [Legislator looking sideways to peer: "You'd think these people think they run the place!"


PS - Note that this is global commentary on policy and the intervention of legislators. It is NOT a re-re-re-hash of the specific Schiavo case. Almost nothing new will be added in this thread regarding her case and no minds will change. I'm not going to get in the weeds of refuting or confirming every issue again unless it is scoped globally.

Rob the problem is that the... (Below threshold)
Just Me:

Rob the problem is that the family is disputing what should be done.

There are her parents and siblings who never heard Terri say she wanted to die this way, then there is the husband who has another woman and is making babies with her (and he actually taken up with this woman, when he made the decision to have her feeding tube pulled). The parents are there and want to take care of their daughter. Michael is there and just wants her dead.

The only evidence that Terri wanted to die was an offhand comment she made to him after watching a movie/tv show. The judge ruled in Michael's favor.

I admit I am not a big fan of this bill, I think making the law specific to Terri will get it killed in the first court the show up in. I do think this case indicates that there is a need for legislation to better cover cases where there is no written directive, and family members dispute over the actual wishes of the incapacitated person.

Also, I am very turned off by the fact that this man has remained her guardian etc, when he has essentially found a new woman who lives in his home as his wife, and they have kids together. I just think if the spouse has moved on that much, they hsould not be making life and death decisions for that person.

I just want Terri thoroughl... (Below threshold)
goddessoftheclassroom:

I just want Terri thoroughly examined by experts, including the MRI and PET scans. Allow, say, three months of appropriate rehab therapy, including human interaction and change of scene (I understand she's been kept in her room with the blinds closed).

If the exam determines PVS (she has not had the proper tests to diagnose this, by the way), and she does not respond to therapy...actually, it doesn't even matter then. Anyone who isn't actually dying (last stages of terminal illness, the truly brain dead being taken off a respirator)l should be entitled to nutrition and hydration.

The bottom line issue for me is that the judge won't even let caregivers give Terri water or liquid food orally. Since she can swallow her saliva, she may be able to swallow water and other liquids.

Her husband, by denying her appropriate care and therapy, has proven himself unfit to be her guardian.

...

guys, from what i have lear... (Below threshold)
mr lawson:

guys, from what i have learned, she has been like this for 15 years. Her brain is fluid. She...has...no..cerbral...cortex.... She feels no pain..nothing. She has been "dead" for years. PET and CAT scans confirm it. Any reaction she gives off is just reflexes from the brain stem. Remember the "Dead cat Bounce."

"If you throw a dead cat off a twenty-story building, it might bounce when it hit the ground, but don't confuse the bounce with renewed life. It's still a dead cat."

Lawson if you were to throw... (Below threshold)
been there:

Lawson if you were to throw a cat of that 20 storie building and there were any question at all it were alive you would do time and a great many people would be out to do you harm.

Kill a disabled woman and a great number of human filth will be singing your praises.

If you want blood go to NASCAR races.

rancid:These are s... (Below threshold)
Julie:

rancid:

These are sad times when the moonbats have to rely on FoxNews polls. Moonbat brian also posted some gobbly gook numbers he said were from fox news poll in another thread. Neither of you provided a link though. I assume that you never read the poll but are only repeating what was posted on another moonbat website. Oh, wait, I just saw been there's post. You're brian? Well I answered your sill post once already. Shoo, shoo, moonbat.

Then I'm one of those mo... (Below threshold)
Julie:

Then I'm one of those moonbats, Julie.

Yes, cindy, yes you are.

This totally gotes against the Living Will and the DNR and is a huge mistake on the lawmakers part.

Hello???? Knock knock knock. There is no living will or dnr.

If there is anyone out there who does not understand brain dead, vegetative state, brain stem death, then email me personally and I'll explain it to you fully.

Don't have to. You have demonstrated it for us time and time again.

And we obsesses with act... (Below threshold)
ZG:

And we obsesses with activist courts? I don't want to hear one word when a customized law is created especially for you on a whim to intervene and supercede your most personal decisions that already have law backing your position. This is an obscene abuse of government powers and the courts will strike it down as unconstitutional. Thank goodness will still have a separation of powers to check this galling and offensive powerplay by opportunistic politicians.

I don't have an opinion on the particular case because I don't know the details. But I am going to give you several words. Comparing this legislative act to activist courts is completely wrong. You even have the difference included in your comment:

Thank goodness will still have a separation of powers to check this galling and offensive powerplay by opportunistic politicians.

The legislature is creating a law. The executive may sign it into law. This is what they are supposed to do. They may be wrong and there may be political consequences to their acts, but the acts are appropriate within their designed power. The judicial, as you state, provides a balance check by making sure the law is constitutional.

The problem with judicial activism is that there is no check. Those who oppose judicial activism cannot make your statement, "Thank goodness will still have a separation of powers to check this galling and offensive powerplay", because separation of powers does not check judicial activism. That is the argument against it. Comparing judicial activism to a legislative act that you don't approve of, yet is within their power, is improper.

Not only is AnonymousDrivel... (Below threshold)

Not only is AnonymousDrivel correct, but there is another aspect to this: bills of attainder - that is, laws that apply to only one identifiable person or a small group of identifiable people - are unconstitutional.

Jeff M.: It is a private b... (Below threshold)
Bob:

Jeff M.: It is a private bill, which by definition is directed at one person. Hundreds are passed each session. Bills of attainder are criminal in nature which this is not.

This is not a bill of attai... (Below threshold)
Julie:

This is not a bill of attainder. A bill of attainder has to have an indisputably punitive purpose directed at the named individual.

Traditionally, it was crimi... (Below threshold)
Julie:

Traditionally, it was criminal. But today, in a civil case, one can challenge a statute as being a bill of attainder if it in some way attacks an individual or group's property rights. Either way, it does not apply to the Schiavo case.

"She...has...no..cerbral...... (Below threshold)
Just Me:

"She...has...no..cerbral...cortex.... She feels no pain..nothing. "

Actually, I just got done debating this on another board, and the facts are that nuerologists are not in agreement on whether or not people in PVS feel pain.

Let's face it the medical field is not God, they do not know all, they only know what they think they know, and what has been measured. Since a person in PVS is unable to communicate, you can't say for certain they feel no pain. Also, babies born without a cerebral cortex feel pain, so you could extrapolate that if a baby without a cerebral cortex feels pain, then a person in PVS may feel it as well.

There is much about the brain that we still don't know.

There was a time when doctors believe that newborns didn't feel pain, and often did medical procedures (like circumcisions) without any anesthetic, they have since learned differently, and use some type of anesthetic when they remove an infants foreskin.

I am hopeing that you guys who are so hot to see this woman dead, are at least hoping they give her pain medications while they are doing it, just in case she isn't as dead and inhuman as you want to think.

RE: ZG's post (March 20, 20... (Below threshold)
AnonymousDrivel:

RE: ZG's post (March 20, 2005 10:52 AM)

The legislature is creating a law. The executive may sign it into law. This is what they are supposed to do. They may be wrong and there may be political consequences to their acts, but the acts are appropriate within their designed power. The judicial, as you state, provides a balance check by making sure the law is constitutional.

Fair enough and I acknowledge that process. Disregarding that Schiavo is being used as a political football for a moment and ignoring further Jeff's note on bills of attainder, I bristle with the maneuverings that have been trotted out in rushed manner. Congress just days ago tried to use subpeona power(!) to skirt judicial proceedings. That indicates to me that their cause is NOT a good faith effort to respect the Constitutional process; I view it as a power grab to undermine it. Now we are supposed to respect the decisions for such a vitally important issue as right-to-life by an institution rushing at an accelerated timetable - something that had been relegated to the states (Patient Self-Determination Act) by this very same institution in 1990 and subsequently ignored for 15 years? This is political opportunism and the creation of law during time of crisis. You are right. I'll append: Legislative and Executive are in a tag-team race to create questionable law; however, it is a legal process whether or not the sausage created becomes binding or not.

I don't consider what was done precedentially in this arena as judicial activism. Maybe it was (I'd need to review the cases preceeding PSDA) but the Legislative sat on its hands since it was a politically divisive topic and the Executive didn't press it. A case arose and the grey was pretty thick. Judicial was forced, it acted, and Legislative stood by. Now, Congress in haste is setting far-reaching law without appropriate consideration. I call that, however inappropriate, Legislative activism. It's the context, in my mind, that makes it so.

All levels of State and Federal court have passed this case up and down so, again, I'm reluctant to call the entire court system as judicially activist. That would be quite a broad brush. I criticize specific court decisions on a regular basis but it would be a bit too cynical, even for me, to criticize the entire chain when cases such as this have been legally scrutinzed, challenged, appealed, and decided to such an extent. Does one justice have more fingerprints on this case than any other? Yes. It's his jurisdiction and, consequently, inevitable. Could a particular judge be notably activist? Sure. But the entire hierarchy in view of extensive political appointments along the way? No.

Conceding that I think Legislative has botched this, I'm still glad it's around to check an "activist" court whenever that activism arises.

Just Me: They try ... (Below threshold)
Julie:

Just Me:

They try to have it both ways: Because she must be suffering, she must be killed and because she is brain dead and doesn't feel a thing, she must be killed.


Julie wrote:These... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Julie wrote:
These are sad times when the moonbats have to rely on FoxNews polls

No, the sad times are because you don't even believe one of your own. There's also an ABC/WaPo poll with even more supportive results, but I didn't bother referencing that because I assumed your response would be "blah blah blah, mainstream media, blah blah, liberal bias, blah". So I only quoted the "gobbly gook numbers" from the Fox poll. Oh, here's the link to both polls.

You also asked me in another thread:
Would that 45% want their ex-spouse to decide?

Actually, no. In that case, it's 59% who, when asked specifically about Terri, agree with Michael.

Happy reading.

RE: Just Me's post (March 2... (Below threshold)
AnonymousDrivel:

RE: Just Me's post (March 20, 2005 12:39 PM)
I am hopeing that you guys who are so hot to see this woman dead, are at least hoping they give her pain medications while they are doing it, just in case she isn't as dead and inhuman as you want to think.

Keep sneaking in inflammatory quips. OK, let's Tango.

I am anxious that her originally cogent wishes (as best as can be legally defined in an imperfect world) be carried out in as humane a manner as possible under Florida law and not callously ignored by selfish interlopers and that her possibly painful or tortuous existence that has been prolonged unmercifully be respectfully stopped so that she may revel in her Creator's glory.

Julie wrote: These are s... (Below threshold)
Julie:

Julie wrote: These are sad times when the moonbats have to rely on FoxNews polls
No, the sad times are because you don't even believe one of your own.

I don't own foxnews, sorry.

You also asked me in another thread:
Would that 45% want their ex-spouse to decide?
Actually, no. In that case, it's 59% who, when asked specifically about Terri, agree with Michael.

That's nice, but it doesn't answer the question I asked. You can answer it now though: Would that 45% want their ex-spouse to decide?

And in your prior post, you were speaking in generalities and never brought up the figure of 59%. So, your post is rather deceptive.

One question I don't see the pollsters asking is: If your spouse is currently living as married to another person, and benefits financially from your death, would you want him or her making life and death decisions for you?

That's nice, but it does... (Below threshold)
Brian:

That's nice, but it doesn't answer the question I asked. You can answer it now though: Would that 45% want their ex-spouse to decide?

That's not a relevant question. What is relevant is that 59% want Terri's spouse (not "ex") to decide. Not that law should be based on polls, but just so you see by how much your opinion is in the minority here.

I find it that people defen... (Below threshold)
been there:

I find it that people defend killing TS-S based on opinion polls. It's almost as silly as wanting to throw out the results of an election based on an exit poll.

There are laws in place that are supposed to protect the rights and lives of all people. A person does not cease to be human because of TBI.

I have dealt with a simular situation that got no press what so ever. A very good and kind person was murdered, the killers and their protectors got off scott free.

The bull about deneyal, emotions, government interference and religious fanatics is just that, BULL.

Living wills are are not respected unless you want to die. Medibiz invokes futility of care policies and you are "allowed to die" like it of not.

A few years ago I had no idea how bad things had gotten. The I came up against the killing machine full force. Trust me you do not want to do the same thing with a loved ones life.

Again, any of you out there who want blood can go to a NASCAR race. At least when a driver is killed they will have had some choice going into it.

Many people have referred t... (Below threshold)
Cao:

Many people have referred to the “medical evidence” that Terri has little to no brain matter remaining.

FACT: The only way to determine such a thing accurately is with an MRI or PET scan. Neither have been done, and they have been disallowed in her case per Michael Schiavo’s instructions.

Many people have spoken of the doctors who have “evaluated” Terri.

FACT: The primary evaluator, Dr. Ronald Cranford is a board-certified neurologist who specializes in PVS cases. Unfortunately, as I said earlier, he's not really an "unbiased" medical expert as he's one of the foremost proponents of euthanasia in the country.

Terry has a documented vocabulary of words, and couldn't have that--it wouldn't be possible--if she were either in a PVS or a Coma.

Brian:Who says it'... (Below threshold)
Julie:

Brian:

Who says it's not a relevant question? You?
You answer questions that were not asked and you pretend your current question is the one you posed earlier.

Maybe, this poll shows how deliberately people are being kept uninformed.

CAO:I'm sorry, are... (Below threshold)
Rob Hackney:

CAO:

I'm sorry, are you saying she can freaking SPEAK??

Not heard that before.

I just want to know who's paying to keep her body alive. If it's my tax dollars, that puts a VERY different spin on things.

Well Rob your tax dollars a... (Below threshold)
been there:

Well Rob your tax dollars are helping to keep TS-S alive but only because Greer allows your man Michael to spend her money exclusivly on trying to get her whacked. Speak to him if you have a problem with it as there was at one time more than enough money to keep her properly cared for.

THANK YOU for bringing this fraud to eveyones attention. Perhaps if enough people are made aware of this Mikey, his mouth peace Felos and Greer will be farmed out for parts to repay hard working tax payers like you.

Julie I seem to recall from... (Below threshold)
Just Me:

Julie I seem to recall from brian in another thread that he thinks it is fine for Michael to have moved on and also make life/death decision about Terri, he would have no problems with his spouse doing it, so therefore nobody else is allowed to.

"Again, any of you out there who want blood can go to a NASCAR race."

And as somebody who follows NASCAR closely every week, there really isn't any blood-lots of parts flying but not much blood. Maybe they should go watch boxing instead.

been there wrote:... (Below threshold)
Brian:

been there wrote:
There are laws in place that are supposed to protect the rights and lives of all people.

And Michael has followed every one of those laws, and the procedures established by those laws. But since you don't like the outcome, you want to create new laws.

Julie wrote:Who s... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Julie wrote:
Who says it's not a relevant question? You?

Yes. When you ignore the answers that pertain to the existing situation, and start crafting fantasy scenarios that might result in the answers you want but with facts that are different from the existing situation, even someone of my mental capacity can see that it's irrelevant.

Well Bri-bri, dehydrate a d... (Below threshold)
been there:

Well Bri-bri, dehydrate a dog to death you will go to jail. Dehydrate a disabled human and your ilk calls it an act of kindness.

While that might sound like the right path to you and Pete Singer most sane people would have a bit of trouble with this line of thinking.

I really don't think there is a snowballs chance in Sydney AU of getting any sense through your head but I have to admit you are pretty damned cute throwing your tanturms.

Come on boy, bug out yer eyes for us!

Oh yeah! That's the stuff!

http://homepages.moeller.org/gstanforth/arbus_hand_grenade.GIF

Oh, so now you equate Terri... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Oh, so now you equate Terri's plight with that of a dog. Unbelievable.

Most people, on the other hand, see grave moral and ethical issues dealing with the dignity of life and death, which makes it a much more complex issue. But feel free to go with your dog analogy.

And no, I would not prefer that she starve/dehydrate to death. I would prefer that she be granted a quick and medicated death with dignity. But your "ilk" affords that option only to convicted murderers.

I don't know what the rest of your rant was about.

All my best,
Bri-bri

But that is not what you po... (Below threshold)
Julie:

But that is not what you posted originally, was it, brian? You and the other moonbat posted numbers from a poll you both chose not to link to. And the numbers turn out to be in response to a generalized question and *not* specific to Schiavo. You just keep playing this little shell game because it's all you got going. As pointed out to you numerous times already by numerous people, the questions to all the polls were slanted to get the answers you wanted to hear.

Oh, but I love your line “even someone of my mental capacity can see that it's irrelevant.” Apparently, not. lol!

Oh, so now you equate Te... (Below threshold)
Julie:

Oh, so now you equate Terri's plight with that of a dog. Unbelievable

No, he's accusing you and your ilk of showing more concern for a dog than you do for Terri Schiavo. And, he's right. I guess you really do have a mental capacity problem.

Not far from here bri-bri a... (Below threshold)
been there:

Not far from here bri-bri a dog was severely abused. So badly that it had to be put down. The general public was out for blood.

A few years ago in the same town a doctor put down a patient with a massive does of the paralizing agent Norcuron after she refused to die quickly enough when he tried to off her with massive doses of a mixture of Morphine and Versed (causes respertory failure check your PDR). He recieved all sorts of support from fellow doctors, the local home health organization and others.

The States Attorney General not only refused to press charges after only one year of mild restrictions on his licence Sorrell recomended ALL RESTRICTIONS BE REMOVED. His recomendation was followed even though the doctor had broken multiple laws he was not punished beyond the one year of supervision on his licence. No time, not even probation for killing a human being.

That's right Bri-Bri the doctor went unpunished. If someone were to bitch slap the doctor they undoubtedly do time.

Tell us oh enlightened one, why is this right?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO... (Below threshold)
firstbrokenangel:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Julie wrote:But t... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Julie wrote:
But that is not what you posted originally, was it, brian? You and the other moonbat posted numbers from a poll you both chose not to link to. And the numbers turn out to be in response to a generalized question and *not* specific to Schiavo. You just keep playing this little shell game

Huh? Nothing you said above is true. I did post the link to the poll, though I first waited until after you challenged the numbers so you would look as foolish as possible. And the questions were specific to Schiavo. So your post above is just a string of lies.

Oh, but I love your line “even someone of my mental capacity can see that it's irrelevant.” Apparently, not. lol!

Yeah, I guess I'd have to lower myself to your level to see that.

Tell us oh enlightened o... (Below threshold)
Brian:

Tell us oh enlightened one, why is this right?

Because that doctor was trying to preserve the dignity of his patient's life, and that fact was clearly recognized by the other doctors, the HMO, the attorney general, and the general population.

So there we have it folks. ... (Below threshold)
been there:

So there we have it folks. Lord Brian has spoken. The law is no longer in effect. Murder is not murder when he proclaims it........

(sound of trumpet blaring)

DEATH WITH DIGNITY!!!!!!!

(Applause from adoring fans as young virgins strew rose petals in his path)

But gee, some people are not as wise as Bri:

I am convinced that in the 1930s the German medical sentiment favoring euthanasia (even before Hitler came to power) made it easier for the Nazi government to move society along the slippery slope that led to the Holocaust. The German euthanasia movement started with defective babies, then reached out to eliminate the insane, then to those suffering from senile dementia, then to patients with advanced tuberculosis, to amputees deemed of no further service to the Reich, to gypsies, to Poles, and finally to Jews. The Holocaust was upon us.

-C. Everett Koop

But others.....

(stirring Wagner music swells)

Berlin, 1 September 1939

Reichsleiter Bouhler and

Dr. med. Brandt

are instructed to broaden the powers of physicians designated by name, who will decide whether those who have — as far as can be humanly determined — incurable illnesses can, after the most careful evaluation, be granted a mercy death.

/signed/ Adolf Hitler

Golly and my daddy tol' me Adolf wuz a bad guy!

So I guess all of the disabled, Jews, Gypsys, Jehova's Witnesses, Catholics, Unitarians complainers etc. were not murdered. They were given dignity.


I do love a good quote. One more for bri-bri to throw a fit over:

Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Kommunist.

Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten,
habe ich geschwiegen;
ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat.

Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten,
habe ich nicht protestiert;
ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter.

Als sie die Juden holten,
habe ich nicht protestiert;
ich war ja kein Jude.

Als sie mich holten,
gab es keinen mehr, der protestierte.

Translation:

When the Nazis arrested the Communists,
I said nothing; after all, I was not a Communist.
When they locked up the Social Democrats,
I said nothing; after all, I was not a Social Democrat.
When they arrested the trade unionists,
I said nothing; afterall, I was not a trade unionist.
When they arrested the Jews, I said nothing; after all, I was not a Jew.
When they arrested me, there was no longer anyone who could protest.

March 21 (Bloomberg) -- The... (Below threshold)
been there:

March 21 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. Congress voted in a hastily convened early morning session to allow the case of Terri Schiavo, a brain-damaged Florida woman, to be placed under federal review.

House members called back from a two-week recess, passed the bill by voice vote at 12:20 a.m. after three hours of debate. The Senate unanimously passed a similar bill Sunday afternoon. President George W. Bush returned yesterday from his ranch in Crawford, Texas, and will sign the bill into law this morning.

been there, I'm flattered b... (Below threshold)
Brian:

been there, I'm flattered by the power you seem to attribute to me. However, in your scenario, it was the medical establishment, the judiciary, and the general population that came to the decision that you disagree with. I, myself, had nothing to do with it. I simply, at your request, explained why you're so far out of the mainstream on the issue.

And keep ranting about Nazis. That reeeeeally makes you look good.

Bri-bri

There, there. We all know w... (Below threshold)
been there:

There, there. We all know what a special boy you are. Everybody is going to listen very carefully and do exactly as you say.

Sorry the Nazi stuff bothers you but hey, if the jack-boot fits invade Poland.

Link for Bri-Bri

Huh? Nothing you said ab... (Below threshold)
Julie:

Huh? Nothing you said above is true.

Everything I wrote was true.

I did post the link to the poll, though I first waited until after you challenged the numbers so you would look as foolish as possible.

You didn't initially and only did so after I accused rancid and you of being the same person. You are, aren't you? And no, in my post to rancid/brian I did not challenge the numbers but questioned why you both avoided posting a link to the actual poll. The only one who looks repeatedly foolish is your.l

And the questions were specific to Schiavo. So your post above is just a string of lies.

Nope. The question you initially posted without a link and I responded to was NOT specific to Schiavo:

New national poll by Fox News.
45% of people think spouses should decide the fate of a person in a persistent vegetative state.
38% think parents should.
2% think the government should.
Still think that I'm the one in a "tiny little box"? If so, then I'm in here with 98% of the country.
Posted by: Brian the moonbat at March 19, 2005 07:04 PM

Yeah, I guess I'd have to lower myself to your level to see that.

Only you and your ilk consider treating the disabled better than animals as lowering yourself.

But you lost, Brian. Go wail and gnash your teeth. No blood for you!

BEEN THERE:SORRY, ... (Below threshold)
Rob Hackney:

BEEN THERE:

SORRY, NOT MY FAUYLT YOU'RE A PINKO wanting to suck up all my tax dollars. Maybe you and your commie buds should care for all the apparent vegetables, except you wouldn't know what a hard days work was to even PAY TAX in the first place.

Find out if this woman is a vegetable already. That's the crux of the matter. I could care less is she lives or dies IF she IS a vegetable...but not on my tax dollars thanks.

In war, sometimes it's the kindest thing you can do to put someone out of their misery, depending on wounds... you kids don't really understand the issues real well.

Oh for heavens sakes brian,... (Below threshold)
done that:

Oh for heavens sakes brian,

.... you still sound like a twelve year old. If this were a war you'd be the first to go... in reality no one would have time to debate serious issues with someone who can't tell a veggie from a sacrificial lamb.... and being a liberal or conservative doesn't really matter when your the one in the line of fire....your wasting every ones time in what is actually a serious discussion...too bad as was said you lose. Better invade poland while you still can :).

lol thanks,
Done that (been there's wife)

Rob: Somebody need... (Below threshold)
Julie:

Rob:

Somebody needs to determine what vegetable you are. Jeesh. Give it a rest already. Sometimes I think you and minnie are the same person.

Ya know Julie I am 99.8% su... (Below threshold)
been there:

Ya know Julie I am 99.8% sure Rancid and Brian are the same person (the names go together so well) and the bride (done that) suggests that Rob and Brian are the same person. I do beleive you could be right that minnie is the same person as well.

Thinking about it a great many of those out to kill, or to use Brians terminology, dignify TS-S on this blog may be Rancid-Brian-Minnie-Phil-Infopro-Expialidocious. If so it would do a great deal to explain the contention that 98% of the country along with the vast majority of the rest of the world stands behind him, her, them and it as undoubtedly this fact was established by extensive polling done within the collective cranium of the above party/parties.

If I were one or more of them though I would be rather careful though as given what he,she they and them have indicated about the minority dessentors with in said head they sound like a dangerious lot.

Bri, Please in the name of humanity. Chase those in your head that disagree with the rest of you to the frontal lobe and find a qualified drycleaner to remove that part of your brain.

Okay...Doesn't anyon... (Below threshold)
Craig Rouskey:

Okay...
Doesn't anyone see the REAL point to the governments involvement in Schiavo case?

Can't you see that THE ONLY REASON our government is involved is because they are preparing for THE PRO-LIFE MOVEMENT?

It's time to revolt my friends. Bush and his cronies are ruining our country and taking our freedoms in the name of preserving freedom for themselves...

"They have stolen our peace, so we'll make our own pie!"

Also, ROB..."pinko"<p... (Below threshold)
Craig Rouskey:

Also, ROB..."pinko"

Your clear disgust for 'pinkos' is the same mentality that was used to train hundreds of thousands of Latin American soldiers (i.e. Manuel Noriega, you know the dictator of Panama) to kill their own people...mind you, IT WAS YOUR TAX DOLLARS THAT PAID FOR THEIR TRAINING AT FT. BENING!!!

Money is NOT wasted when it helps people, it is wasted when you train people to murder. It's wasted in this War, it's wasted decyphering the wishes of a brain dead woman...grrrr...

Doctors treating geriatric ... (Below threshold)
zoomie:

Doctors treating geriatric patients often consider 'quality of life'. For Terry, there is no quality of life! No choices, walking, talking, communicating, nothing at all. Geez, even if I wasn't a complete vegetable inside my head, I hope someone would let me die so I could be released from the solitary confinement of my own body.

If it happens to me, I hope my ex husband is even more relentless than Michael in getting me into the ground.




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