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Florida DCF found no signs that Terri Schiavo was abused

The St. Petersburg Times reports:

State investigators found no signs that Terri Schiavo was being abused during several inquiries from 2001 to 2004, according to records released Friday.

The Florida Department of Children & Families logged 89 complaints over those years that claimed Schiavo, who resided in a hospice in Pinellas Park, had a variety of problems caused by abuse, including bed sores, suspicious needle marks and broken bones.

In response to the claims, department investigators made unannounced visits to the hospice. They concluded that Schiavo was in good condition, given her circumstances.

...Pinellas-Pasco Circuit Court Judge George Greer ordered the state to release the reports after several news organizations, including the St. Petersburg Times, sued to have the records opened.

If you're here looking for an apology, feel free to ask those who've advocated that Terri was abused - a group that does not include me. My argument has alway been that Terri's intent was never proven (one way or another) to a "clear and convincing standard" mandated by the Supreme Court. That no judge would challenge Judge Greer's initial finding of fact on this point is the tragedy of the situation, though it's a fairly common outcome in appeals. Appeals aren't new trials, and findings of fact are rarely examined, let alone reversed.


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Comments (33)

Appeals aren't new... (Below threshold)
Xrlq:
Appeals aren't new trials, and findings of fact are rarely examined, let alone reversed.

Right, but they are supposed to be examined in the exceedingly rare instance in which a statute specifically calls on a federal court to review them de novo.

Hmm...while I've never "adv... (Below threshold)
-S-:

Hmm...while I've never "advocated" that Terri was abused, I have raised the as yet unanswered questions as to indications of previous physical abuse. I don't read here that the indications have been explained away, however.

There's that newly raised issue that unusual injection marks were found on her person while she was in (I think it was) the last hospice (or, any hospice because the point is that the needle marks were not identifiable as to any known hyperdermic that was present and in use at any of the facilities -- thus, "unusual" and "of unknown origin" injection marks) that's not resolved.

My point about Schiavo has always been that what Felos/Michael Schiavo managed to work through the court system as representing an indication of Terri's wishes for herself under certain circumstancs, was never substantial enough to indicate proof of her wishes, despite the Felos/MS interpretations.

I think there's more than enough evidence to indicate that Felos/MS got what they wanted by sheer determination and better legal skills, certainly by having more money and resources at their disposal (ahem) (which equals 'better legal skills').

Then there's personal values, also shared by Terri and her parents/siblings, and the huge array of criticism that has surrounded those values, which made the issue far more complex publicly than it should ever have been.

I do think that the vehemence and emotional tirades on the internet that insisted that Terri had to die were and remain politically based. Just look at what Howard Dean now has to say about using the life of Terri Schiavo for Democrats' purposes. It's very lowlife stuff that he/they are engaged in.

Terri, on the other hand, is now a great example for other Catholics and Christians and has helped many people. Perhaps not the outcome that Howard Dean planned...

The following was a challen... (Below threshold)
pc93:

The following was a challenge given out [Ed. note: which has now been slightly modified April 18, 2005] and also included below is a URL for our press release:

From your friendly neighborhood moderator/creator of terrisjustice. See below. We have been challenged and now I must issue my challenge to you.

Those in the pinnacles of authority [Jeb Bush and others] believe that we are going to melt away and give up seeking justice for Terri.

The famous motto of the Zapatistas is one response of ours in this regard: Ya Basta!

We will never surrender! We will never tire!

Challenge to you: go out and inform 10 other people what happened to Terri. Get them signed on terrisjustice. Ask them to do the same.

This is how the grassroots grows and is the only true means of getting a true geometrical progression realized.

If you are not for getting justice for Terri against those with blood on their hands do not join this list. If you are a spy or have mal-intents and you try to join or succeed in joining please leave the list or it may be that one day you will die a horrible death not at our hands but as a result of your disingenuous actions which resulted in karmic repercussions. This is a form of what is called felos-de-se (a senseless or purposeful act of self-murder).

NOTE:

A great deal of lee-way is necessary, given the scope of the work, and I am committed to freedom of expression. HOWEVER, it does sometimes become necessary to remind ourselves of our purpose and the basic rules of etiquette when communicating with others.

Flame wars and attacks on the character of others are not allowed on this list, and other members of the list not involved should not be subjected to emails containing such material - carry them on in private please if you must, or more adult behavior, don't indulge in them at all.

We will remind once in awhile if things get a little out of hand, and any continued offense will be dealt with by either a moderation of the posts of the offender(s) or, when all else fails, a complete ban on those posts, especially when several complaints have been received from offended list members.

We have never had to take action in some years of doing this, and we hope this will never be necessary. Thank you for your support, and may your experience on this list be as enjoyable as it is informative.

URL for press release [also contained in Yahoo! News]:

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2005/4/prweb229498.php

JS

That (^^) and that Michael ... (Below threshold)
-S-:

That (^^) and that Michael Schiavo's and George Felos' legacy is that they behaved with gross and grave inhumanity to and about a suffering human being and those who loved her. Their behaviors were not those of love or best wishes, unfortunately, but of self pity, and because of that, supreme selfishness.

Which are all within the purview of my opinion and morality (also shared by many others, however). If there is anything I ever advocated and do now, it is that Terri Schiavo left no written or recorded record of what she reasoned for her own behalf and that MS/Felos stepped into a situation they could use and did. The inhumanity enters into this by their insistence that what they later conjured as to indications by Terri were allowed to prevail and that those who loved Terri Schiavo were prevented from caring for her as they could, would and attempted to -- which is very likely what Terri Schiavo would have wanted, given that those offering her care were her near relatives. Despite what Michael Schiavo insists from years ago, some casual statement made during the viewing of some television program -- versus an entire lifetime of familial knowledge by her siblings and parents.

This is one case where a "law" was allowed to enforce inhumanity.

I have never much been on t... (Below threshold)
Just Me:

I have never much been on the Terri was abused bandwagon. I actually think the original belief that an eating disorder caused her collapse is probably the correct one, and that there likely was not any abuse.

That said, given all the problems in Florida's DCF, I can't say that I would trust too many reports out of their office-the DCF doesn't have a good track record, when it comes to protecting anyone.

Regarding whether Terri's h... (Below threshold)
Palmateer:

Regarding whether Terri's husband had ever broken her bones, for example, it wasn't up to Florida's DCF to determine that.

It was the medical examiner's autopsy that found the charge baseless.

Will you wingnuts EVER give... (Below threshold)
Trollee:

Will you wingnuts EVER give this poor women's soul some rest?

Hmmmm.Actually I'v... (Below threshold)
ed:

Hmmmm.

Actually I've got a small problem with that "eating disorder" thing. From what I've read the only indication of an "eating disorder" has come from Michael Schivao himself. In the Wolfson report he alludes to it, but doesn't provide any evidence of it. The other frankly dubious thing about this case is the cause of Terri's collapse. Supposedly, again according to the Wolfson report, Terri drank 10-15 glasses of ice tea a day and this caused her potassium levels to drop to a dangerous point where her heart failed.

One issue is that this was the conventional wisdom in dieting. Drink plenty of fluids, along with diet and exercise, and you'll lose weight. If it's possible for someone to die of a heart attack from this, why isn't there a study? Considering the millions of people who have gone this route, why aren't the hospices filled with people who've been critically injured from ... "ice tea"? Strange.

Another issue is the potassium.

Potassium is necessary for the operation of neurons. Too much potassium will cause the neurons to misfire wildly and will trigger a heart attack. A number of serial killers have used potassium chloride because of this fact. Too little potassium will also cause the neurons to either misfire wildly or not fire at all. This will cause a heart attack, which is what happened to Terri Schivao.

The issue I have is how on earth did Terri Schivao end up with a fatally low level of potassium?

I'm a kidney dialysis patient. My kidneys are largely non-functional and I have to get hooked up to a machine three times a week. One aspect of dialysis is that it regulates the amount of potassium in the blood. Occasionally the settings are such that too much potassium is removed, it's something of an art to set these things up, in those instances it's impossible to not notice that the potassium level is too low.

I know because I've experienced it myself, but not to a fatal point like Terri Schivao. Instead my potassium level was reduced to an extremely irritating but not dangerous level. So imagine my symptoms but 10x worse. And the machine operates over a four hour period so the onset of symptoms is much much faster than if you got there by drinking "ice tea".

If your potassium level approaches a dangerously low level your nervous system starts to misfire. What happens is that your entire body starts to shake, shiver and tremble badly out of control. The feeling is almost as if you were standing on your own personal earthquake faultline that was undergoing an endless 3.0 quake. It's a little difficult to graps things because the hand muscles are all shaking. The teeth are rattling and your bones feel like someone had hit a gong next to you and you're doing that cartoonish shaking.

While you may not know what the problem is, anyone could easily recognize that something was definitely wrong. What I find incredible that Terri had to experience this but to a greater level than I did and over a much longer period of time. And it's nothing that can't be seen by another person.

It just doesn't add up to me.

"It was the medical examine... (Below threshold)
Just Me:

"It was the medical examiner's autopsy that found the charge baseless."

I didn't think the medical examiner's report had been released yet.

The DCF reports are reports from various investigations that were sealed, and they were I think investigations of her care during her illness (these are the neglect etc charges) not investigations from before the collapse or of charges alleged before the collapse.

Unfortunately there are len... (Below threshold)
epador:

Unfortunately there are lenty of cases of folks who have damaged themselves, sometimes fatally, by their various efforts at purging and inducing weight loss when they have eating disorders. Most don't end up with the prolonged end in this case. Some die immediately, some recover at least partly from their behavior, etc.

Whether that is indeed what happened to TS is mere speculation for those of us without the full information on the case.

Pointless speculation distracting from the real issues.

Character assassination based on these speculations is also inapproriate.

The real issues include how to deal with folks where life or death decisions can be made when there is no "living will," whether the living will is worth the paper it is printed on, how to best play King Solomon when a husband and parents differ on how to make these decisions, whether witholding food and water is ever appropriate (many a suffering cancer or neurologic disorder patient chooses to end their suffering this "natural" way - would they be better off with a Dr. Kevorkian approach?) and so forth.

"As for the dental care, a ... (Below threshold)

"As for the dental care, a doctor stated that a routine exam and X-rays would cause "major distress" to Mrs. Schiavo. It would require sedation and lift equipment to postion Schiavo for the exam, the doctor said. There also could be problems with aspiration, as Schiavo could not swallow, the investigator stated."

The above is from the Times. Minus the full report, it appears that DCF has found that there was neglect to include rehabilitative neglect, but that they chose to be satisfied with this neglect for their own reasons. I cannot call it anything else regardless of DCF's characterization.

The question is if one considers the reasons for the neglect sufficient. I think we will have to make up our own minds about that. It seems to be uncontested that Schiavo lost teeth due to lack of dental care (they could pull teeth but not do an exam?).

Also the lack of rehabilitative therapy seems uncontested. What could be the justification for this?

So, while I argued strongly against leeping to conclusions of abuse, I find this whitewash unconvincing.

epador wrote:<... (Below threshold)
Sue Dohnim:

epador wrote:

Character assassination based on these speculations is also inapproriate.

Nobody needs to assassinate Michael Schiavo's character. He did it all himself.

Even if he was 100% accurate about what caused Terri's collapse, Michael's behavior from 1993 onward is enough to call the man a monster.

You'd say that Michael loved his wife so much that he was simply carrying out her wishes. He's said it many, many times in numerous interviews. That's why he spent all of that malpractice suit money on lawyers to fight his in-laws for twelve long years, right?

You do realize that he could have honored her wishes soon after he "remembered" in 1993 that she wanted to die, right? In 1994, Michael had the money and the means to grant Terri's wishes. That year is when Oregon made physician-assisted suicide legal.

He could have moved her to Oregon and shown his respect for her wishes and shown how much he loved her, but he didn't do it. On all the talk shows he was on, he constantly stated that he would go through anything, anything to see that his wife's wishes were granted.

Except moving across the country like thousands of other married couples, it would seem.

Why didn't he love his wife enough to do that? Why did he make her suffer another twelve years in Florida?

Maybe there were other reasons she had to die in Florida.

The real issues include how to deal with folks where life or death decisions can be made when there is no "living will,"

How about erring on the side of life, especially in a civil court case?


whether the living will is worth the paper it is printed on,

If Terri had written in 1989 or 1990 something like "I don't want artificial life support if I'm terminally ill," she couldn't have known that nine or ten years later that the Florida government would redefine food and water as artificial life support and redefine a persistent vegetative state as a terminal illness.

So her living will would have been useless, if she had wanted to live. If we keep heading in this direction, yours will be too, if you have one and you want to live.


how to best play King Solomon when a husband and parents differ on how to make these decisions,

King Solomon stopped the baby from being cut in half. He was on the side of life. People like you choose to forget that.

whether witholding food and water is ever appropriate (many a suffering cancer or neurologic disorder patient chooses to end their suffering this "natural" way - would they be better off with a Dr. Kevorkian approach?) and so forth.

Cancer, neurological disorders, will it stop there? It began there in Holland, but it's not stopping. Dr. Leo Alexander put it best in 1949 (emphasis mine):

Whatever proportions these crimes finally assumed, it became evident to all who investigated them that they had started from small beginnings. The beginnings at first were merely a subtle shift in emphasis in the basic attitude of the physicians. It started with the acceptance of the attitude, basic in the euthanasia movement, that there is such a thing as life not worthy to be lived. This attitude in its early stages concerned itself merely with the severely and chronically sick. Gradually the sphere of those to be included in this category was enlarged to encompass the socially unproductive, the ideologically unwanted, the racially unwanted and finally all non-Germans. But it is important to realize that the infinitely small wedged-in lever from which this entire trend of mind received its impetus was the attitude toward the nonrehabilitable sick.

In looking into this furthe... (Below threshold)

In looking into this further (I found a link with the actual report: see the Timeline link under background sources), it appears to be the whitewash I described.

For example, the doctor (appointed by Schiavo) claimed that he could not do a dental exam because it was hard to open Terri's mouth (also no GYN exams due to contractures), yet he saw a dark area on her teeth where he could not determine if a filling was in or out.

A filling being out would be pretty painful I imagine yet this quack could not verify it as it or out--his report. That is what passed for a dental examination: "I can't do it, its too hard".

The remainder of the report is more of the same.


This report has been badly misrepresented. It does not vindicate anyone, but it does show that the investigation was entirely cursorary and pro forma. Basically, it is a matter of reporting misleading lack of indications to questions that were in reference to other matter. For example, one complaint is "no feeding", which is what was found. However, the report would cite that this is due to a court order so no indications of neglect.

Another would be in reference to events in the past such as being injected with glucose. The response is, "We don't see any needle makes now, so no indications of abuse".

Another is that MS said something in the past to a certain nurse. DCF would ask the current nursing staff (selected by MS-Felos) and they would say, "We haven't heard any of that."

The whole report is one episode of this Keystone cop routine after another.

Check it out.

Kevin,You still do... (Below threshold)

Kevin,

You still don't get it and that's a shame.


Cindy

Cindy, we get that you're i... (Below threshold)

Cindy, we get that you're impervious to new information on this case for reasons having nothing whatsoever to do with the case itself.

Finally! A court rep... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

Finally!
A court report that allows us to resume Michael-bashing again.

More gossip and innuendo, please. I think we should alledge things against him and not prove anything. That's fair.

Les Nessman wrote:</... (Below threshold)
Sue Dohnim:

Les Nessman wrote:

More gossip and innuendo, please. I think we should alledge things against him and not prove anything. That's fair.

Rather than doing drive-by trolling, address the specific instances of "innuendo" and "gossip," please.

And since you're such a stickler for proving things, please do enlighten us on all of the proof you have to counter such stinging "innuendo" and "gossip."

Dean's comments make no sen... (Below threshold)
maree:

Dean's comments make no sense when he asks "Do you want Tom Delay (or the Courts, or Senate)of yuor loved ones to decide when you will die? Well, duh, Terri's loved ones DID want help from the courts and the Senate, they DID not want it to be a private matter since they felt that their rights were beign violated. Nobody forced them to make the matter less than private, they chose not to keep it private. Is Dean saying no one has the right to ask for help from the courts or government if they choose to?

Maree,Actually, th... (Below threshold)

Maree,

Actually, the courts forced the Schindlers into the limelight by granting Michael Schiavo's initial request to murder Terri.

The whole problem here is the court overreaching its authority from beginning to last.


For his part, Dean is simply a liar.

Most of the posters here si... (Below threshold)
Bill:

Most of the posters here simply have no idea of the realities of long-term care.

Tooth extractions are common in long-term care situations.

Those patients cannot cooperate with basic oral care, cannot even open their mouth on command.

Because of this, caregivers are very limited in the oral care they can provide.

In addition, we know the purging associated with bulimia significantly damages tooth enamel.

If anything it is surprising she did not lose more teeth, earlier.

Bill wrote:... (Below threshold)
Sue Dohnim:

Bill wrote:

In addition, we know the purging associated with bulimia significantly damages tooth enamel.

If anything it is surprising she did not lose more teeth, earlier.

Good point. If she was bulimic, why did it take a decade for her teeth to show any signs of it?

I think there's more tha... (Below threshold)
Brian:

I think there's more than enough evidence to indicate that Felos/MS got what they wanted by sheer determination and better legal skills, certainly by having more money and resources at their disposal (ahem) (which equals 'better legal skills').

The Schindlers requested and received countless appeals, up to the Supreme Court. They had, literally, an Act of Congress written just for them, opening up new doors when all the others were closed. They were given access to a federal court, access to which they were not entitled by previous law.

The opportunities handed to them were unprecedented. They had, and took advantage of, every one. To say that Michael and Terri won because they had better legal skills and more resources is feebly simplistic. They won because the law and human decency were clearly on their side.

Sue whined :"And sin... (Below threshold)
Les Nessman:

Sue whined :
"And since you're such a stickler for proving things, please do enlighten us on all of the proof you have to counter such stinging "innuendo" and "gossip."

I am not speculating. YOU are, so YOU prove it.

I am not insinuating how she became ill. I am not guessing about how she was cared for. I am not guessing what her 'living will' sentiments were. I am not speculating her husband's motives.

You are the ones flapping your gums, so you bring the proof.


I think I've heard over a dozen allegations against Michael in the national media. Allegations up to and including attempted murder, for God's sake. I've heard enough allegations to make me think that Michael *may* be a real piece of shit.

But I'm tired of just allegations. I've heard enough about him to last forever.

If you have proof, take it to the local proscecutor and insist he be charged with crimes.

We've all heard the allegations. Now bring proof, or STFU already.


Les Nessman trolled:... (Below threshold)
Sue Dohnim:

Les Nessman trolled:

I am not insinuating how she became ill.

Neither did I. Get some reading comprehension, troll.


I am not guessing about how she was cared for.

Neither did I. Get some reading comprehension, troll.


I am not guessing what her 'living will' sentiments were.

Neither did I. Try reading sometime, troll.


I am not speculating her husband's motives.

I wasn't speculating so much on the husband's motives as I was on the reason why she had to die in Florida. Click the link and read the green text in the bill about the groups that the Florida government wants to "help."

You are the ones flapping your gums, so you bring the proof.

I provided the proof I needed for any allegations I made. Troll.


I think I've heard over a dozen allegations against Michael in the national media. Allegations up to and including attempted murder, for God's sake. I've heard enough allegations to make me think that Michael *may* be a real piece of shit.

Well he is a piece of shit. If you think he's a fine upstanding guy, you're probably a piece of shit. Bet you've got at least one divorce under your belt. Either that or a grandma-starving.


But I'm tired of just allegations. I've heard enough about him to last forever.

If you have proof, take it to the local proscecutor and insist he be charged with crimes.

If I had actually alleged anything, I'd have sent the proof to the proper authorities. But I didn't, and I didn't. And you didn't understand that because you're a dumbass illiterate troll.

We've all heard the allegations. Now bring proof, or STFU already.

How about since you don't like what's written in the comments, and you're too fucking stupid to pass it by, read it properly, click a link, or do anything but troll, you go fuck yourself? You might have to borrow a dick.

Bill,It's not sett... (Below threshold)

Bill,

It's not setting our sights to high to insist that a dental exam determine determinatively whether or not a filling came out.

You are being an apologist.

Paul:Here's the di... (Below threshold)
Bill:

Paul:

Here's the dilemma.

Do you drug someone unconscious in order to give them a dental exam?

That is what it takes to make it "determinative", when the person cannot understand that they should open their mouth.

Please remember there are zero guarantees when you put someone that debilitated under general anesthesia.

You would do all that just because you were unsure about *one* filling?

You did know, of course, that these patients often grind/gnash their teeth to the point where any restorative dental work is shattered, and sometimes even the original teeth break off?

I can see being put under for extractions, but not for an examination.

Through the miracle of mode... (Below threshold)

Through the miracle of modern medicine, we do have the technology to perform dental examines on uncooperative patients.

We do it on livestock, zoo animals, inmates, children, all the time.

The alternative is to have them suffer unbearable pain from their teeth rotting out of their heads.

That is your preference?

When damage is noted, the p... (Below threshold)
Bill:

When damage is noted, the patient is first monitored.

If they don't show signs of distress, dental work is not done if they are at risk.

In this specific instance, you want to put someone who is at a high risk of aspiration under, increasing the chances they will aspirate and develop pneumonia, which for them is a life-threatening condition?

It would be considered reckless to do so, just for an exam or cleaning, simply to make you feel better, in the absence of distress on their part.

Even the DCF notes the risk... (Below threshold)
Bill:

Even the DCF notes the risks involved:

"the attending physician, Dr. Gambone, stated that a routine dental exam and X rays would cause major distress to Mrs. Schiavo and would require extraordinary measures to accomplish such as sedation and lift equipment and she could suffer from aspiration....

Mrs. Schiavo does receive oral care and cleaning and to date there are no known problems such as abscesses, bleeding gums, or caries."

Bill,I don't buy t... (Below threshold)

Bill,

I don't buy the excuses you are offering.

Bill wrote:... (Below threshold)
Sue Dohnim:

Bill wrote:

"the attending physician, Dr. Gambone, stated that a routine dental exam and X rays would cause major distress to Mrs. Schiavo and would require extraordinary measures to accomplish such as sedation and lift equipment and she could suffer from aspiration....

What? How could she have major distress if she was a vegetable?

You can't have it both ways. Either she was a vegetable, could feel no pain, and it was okay to dehydrate her, or she could be in distress, which means she was not a vegetable, she could feel pain, and it was a crime to dehydrate her.

Which one is it?

In this specific instance, you want to put someone who is at a high risk of aspiration under, increasing the chances they will aspirate and develop pneumonia, which for them is a life-threatening condition?

Yeah, life-threatening condition, unlike being starved and dehydrated to death.

How can you have so much cognitive dissonance without your head exploding? How can so many contradictory things reside in one skull without blowing it into bloody shards? I thought only Democrats had that kind of cranial integrity, thanks to years of bone-thickening Marxist/Critical Theory brainwashing.

HiWhether or not p... (Below threshold)
steves base:

Hi

Whether or not people here made allagation in the press personally is not an issue. Allagations were made in the press by the Pro Life side. Emotions were stirred delibertily so there would be an out cry to get intervention like "terry's law".

At no stage was guilt of anything established. When Terry (please gang she has a name not just intials) had the collapse years ago there was bound to have been an investigation NO GUILT found.

Her pyshical state worsened in hospital. That happens in long term situations. It is a fact of life, accept it.

Some one commented that he could have moved her to Oragen (sorry spelling) for a more timily demise. Terries parents could easily argued that this action would have been PREMEDITATED murder. That is in all likily hood why he did not move her. I presume that her/their husband's home is in Florida. If we are talking about her wish's would she not want to be at HOME?

Soon, if the medical staff had not been forced to already, her muscles would have tightened to the point of where tendons would need to be cut so they could straighten Terri's limbs into a natural appearing posture. I am certain that they were careful to keep her from facing bright sunlight. Being unable to turn her head sun shine could damage her. After a while bed sores do not heal ...they just become ulcers that oose. Doing exams dental,gyn etc. that cause physical damage need to minimised. They would sedate her as a precaution for these exams (see next para). As a body declines we heal poorly if at all. Due to inactivity her bones will have weakened.

If Terry had a glimmer of awareness would she want to stay trapped inside as she declined? Would she she find the pain of all these things happening a rewarding LIFE?

I once had occasion to watch a mentally handicapped individual over a long period. He was being trained to wash stuff, dress himself etc.. In the cafeteria, when no one was keeping busy, he would watch the others gossip and chat and flirt and generally enjoy life. Therc was a very trajic look of longing on his face in those moments. I enquired and found that he had had a an accident that left him damaged. He ws watching us live his life. He saw us doing things that he used to do only a year ago. He missed the life he could have had and could not understand what had happened to take it away from him.

It is not, admittedly, a comparable situation but try to picture yourself in it. Then picture your self in Terry's situation if you had the glimmer of awareness.

Go ahead flame away, call me troll, bet your chest and denounce the harsh realities of life. The Terry's awareness left years ago if any of it was left it was locked behind doors that mankind cannot open.

Either way at least her both her body and mind are at rest now.


This sounds very humane.

What about the position Ter... (Below threshold)
rich brennan:

What about the position Terri was in when the medics arrived.
I heard that the Medics notified the authorities that she was found face down.
It appeared that Michael did not attempt to revive her at all even though he is certified in CPR.
Doesn't that throw up red flags for an investigation?




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