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Columnists Contempt For Catholicism

Tina Brown gives a breathtaking example of the visceral hatred of religion evident in the op/ed pages some of the nations most influential newspapers. This week the target is Catholicism, but make no mistake it's all religion they hate. Brown's rant is worthy of a place alongside such recent moonbattery as that from Maureen Dowd and Frank Rich in The New York Times.

Tina Brown: Reverence Gone Up in Smoke [WP]


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Comments (29)

Can't refute the arguments... (Below threshold)
Clive Tolson:

Can't refute the arguments that they make, so call them 'faith haters' and other names. Your pissed off because they point out the damage the wing nuts, Bill Frist and Tom DeLay are doing to the Republican Party, so you adopt James Dobson's rhetoric.

Pathetic.

Gotta get off that mojo, Cl... (Below threshold)
Boyd:

Gotta get off that mojo, Clive. Nobody can understand what you're saying.

The problem Clive, is that ... (Below threshold)
BSKB:

The problem Clive, is that they don't make arguments about changes within the Church, these folks are making arguments that indicate that all they want is the pomp and circumstance of Mass without the religion. The simple solution? If you actually care about the faith, change it from within or maybe join a church that fits your viewpoint. So far, all I see is a lot of people that wants a church that reflects their own desires without offering any indication that they would attend mass even if the Church did change.

These pundits want a Church run by public opinion, but only the opinions that they deem important enough to matter, their own. They wag their fingers about the moral failures of the church and act as if none of the views that might influence their desicions might actually come from their understanding of the Bible and that the stands they make are for what they believe to be good reasons.

If you don't see any of these folks as faith haters you are probably right; it's just their faith is secular humanism and liberalism which admits little room for religious faith.

Interestingly enough, an Au... (Below threshold)
-S-:

Interestingly enough, an Austin based radio person sent me a Dowd article reprint and HE entitled it, "by Maureen Dowd, Spawn of Satan" (perhaps it was, "Satan's Spawn" but who cares)...

I realized that it was ridicule, all that after all I wrote was that I was a Christian (that set him off, way off, then the icky taunting ensued).

Seems that Dowd is well recognized by her own for who she is: Satan's Spawn. THEY call her that. Not me.

I just think she's a lost soul, one of those zombie things walking around posing as human which is not too strange given that she is published by TNYT.

But, she is ever.so.well.co... (Below threshold)
-S-:

But, she is ever.so.well.coifed.and.manicured about her Spawnage, so I guess that makes it all.alright.with.the.zombie.community.

Which also explains Tina Br... (Below threshold)
-S-:

Which also explains Tina Brown.

Zombies.

BSKB, These column... (Below threshold)
Clive Tolson:

BSKB,

These columnists may be Catholics, but they're not theologians! And, rather than address the changes they might want (like a majority of practicing US Catholics), it's more important to explain why nothing will change. I've seen the polling of actual American Catholics, and you're willfully ignorant if you think they don't share the same views.

CliveWith all due re... (Below threshold)
BSKB:

Clive
With all due respect, I'm not asking for theologians, while I would appreciate if they read a book on the matter (maybe the Bible, then move on to works by contemporary Catholic thinkers). They will not, because they don't care about the Church as a religious institution, just a political one.

As for the views of most American Catholics, please, show me how I have been willfully ignorant? I know what devout Catholics believe, what other American Catholics believe and that there are also a bunch of Catholics that aren't Americans. Those polls might matter to you, but the Church isn't run by his holiness, Pope Zogby.

The Church is run by its faith and understanding of the Bible, the pundits on the other hand do not, it's why last I checked, they aren't invited to vote on the next Pope.

Jaysus, CliveI cov... (Below threshold)

Jaysus, Clive

I covered Pan Dowdies screeching on my own blog and if there is any argument in it, I'd like someone to point it out. It's one long line of mendacious vitriol.

Heavens! Cardinals (mostly picked by JPII himself) actually selected JPII's right hand man... A Catholic as Pope!

Whodda thunk it?

The Catholic bashing kinda reminds me of that line from some hothouse leftie who told more than she thought she revealed when she said upon the occassion of Reagan's election "I don't know how this could have happened, I don't know anyone that voted for him!"

There is nothing so illiberal as a frustrated "progressive" thwarted when their dogma is rejected by others.

I realize, also, that peopl... (Below threshold)
-S-:

I realize, also, that people like John Kerry, Nancy Pelosi, Geraldine Ferraro and Ted Kennedy all like to wear the "I'm a Catholic" on their nametags and/or collars, but they're people (and others like them) who use the affiliation to attempt to justify positions and policies that are actually diametrically opposed, entirely contrary, to what Catholicism instructs and requires.

That they're still affiliated with local parishes and probably receiving Holy Communion in those parishes indicates that they're being catered to by local priests with disregard for what the Church instructs (not a good thing).

You can't BE a Catholic without BEING a Catholic and being a Catholic involves agreeing to what you profess as a Catholic. Many people use Catholicism while denigrating and refusing to agree with what is involved in doing so, using the affiliation as if it presumes they are therefore holy or more than others or whatever, but it does not.

Better that they are attending church than not, yes, but you can't say "I support (this principle or that one) but I don't believe it in my personal life, but I'll support it anyway" without contradicting your own moral code.

Which is what the populist 'catholic' does and is doing among many who remain dedicated to the democratic party as a form of social religion, humanist sorta feel-goody-circle-newwave thing.

And, whether they are aware... (Below threshold)
-S-:

And, whether they are aware or not, people as described (Pelosi, Kerry, Ferraro, Kennedy and others like them) are responsible for demeaning and denigrating the church itself.

They assist in the process of mocking Christ.

Tina Brown -- another lefti... (Below threshold)
Jim:

Tina Brown -- another leftie wackadoo -- would love to see a Vatican that resembles the Upper Westside of Manhattan. Did that moron really think they'd appoint a pope who'd favor abortion, gay marriage and gay priests? Besides, they already have gay priests. Those sex offender clerics aren't molesting little girls, they're after teenaged boys.

I'm no Catholic, but even I was offended by her column, which was precisely her goal in writing her ridiculous column.

"I've seen the polling of a... (Below threshold)
Just Me:

"I've seen the polling of actual American Catholics, and you're willfully ignorant if you think they don't share the same views."

And you are aware that American Catholics are a small percentage of Catholics world wide? The majority of Catholics do not live in the US or in Europe, and the majority of Catholics that actually attend church more often than Christmas and Easter don't live in the the US or Europe, they live in South America, Africa and Asia, and they are very conservative/Orthodox in their beliefs. They don't want the church American Catholics seem to want.

What so many Americans want is the cloak of religion, but without any demands.

Tina Brown is to Catholicis... (Below threshold)
Paul Zrimsek:

Tina Brown is to Catholicism what George Costanza is to Latvian Orthodoxy:

Father-priest 2: Is there one aspect of the faith that you find particularly attractive?

George: (he thinks) I think the hats. The hats convey that solemn religious look you want in a faith. Very pious.

I feel stupid. How could h... (Below threshold)
DaveD:

I feel stupid. How could have I missed what everyone else has seen so clearly. There is a gifted group of liberal commentators in this country possessing the uncanny ability to critically assess the acts of conservative individuals BEFORE they actually have time themselves to do anything!!!! I am convinced nothing scares the liberal elites more than an individual with a record of strong character.

What so many Americans w... (Below threshold)
Steve L.:

What so many Americans want is the cloak of religion, but without any demands.

Exactly. They are going for the whole idea of confess-your-sins-on-your-deathbed-and-you-are-in.

How do YOU know, Steve L.?<... (Below threshold)
-S-:

How do YOU know, Steve L.?

That is, how can you attempt such a sweeping generalization about the heart-of-hearts of those I am betting you have little in common with?

But, better a deathbed conversion than no conversion.

Too many Christians want to... (Below threshold)
Steve L.:

Too many Christians want to pick and choose which parts of their particular religion they want to follow. They want to feel good about themselves by being "religious" people without wanting to obey the Biblical teachings of their particular denomination. It allows them to look down their noses at others and to feel all pious. They aren't really concerned about the Church's teachings as long as they get "credit" for going.

The reaction of American Catholics to the election of the new Pope demonstrates this perfectly. While the complaints are not representative of all the members of the Church, they are an indicator. The "complainers" don't care what the Church's teachings are; they want the Church to bend to what they want to believe. It allows them to live the life they want to live without any of the guilt.

For example, the Church says pre-marital sex is wrong. How many Catholics do you think really and truly practice that? Probably a very small number of them. When a Catholicsengagein pre-marital sex, they are required to confess their sins. I am sure they would prefer that the Church decree that pre-marital sex is OK, thereby removing the sin from it. In that way, they can engage in the behavior they want without feeling like a hypocrite.

This is not intended as an indictment of Catholics alone. Virtually every denomination of every religion faces the same problems. Sure, some of the beliefs of certain denominations strike me as silly, but it is the choice of the church member to follow those beliefs. As many have pointed out, if Catholics don't like Catholicism, they can move over to the C of E/Anglican/Episcopalian church. Since it is a liberal outgrowth of the Catholic Church, they can have all the pomp and circumstance of the Catholic Church and the liberal benefits they so crave.

The Episcopal Church:... (Below threshold)
Mikey:

The Episcopal Church:
"All of the Ritual, None of the Guilt."

My sister calls the Episcop... (Below threshold)
Rob:

My sister calls the Episcopal Church "Catholic light"


Just like when one of you ... (Below threshold)
Clive Tolson:

Just like when one of you trot out the old 'Bush bashing' whine, any type of comments considered 'bashing', is just your tired dodge of refusing to defend what can't be defended. So, you dress it up with more name calling, and now, you'll stoop so low as to call the Left, anti-Catholic and anti-religion.

And you are aware that American Catholics are a small percentage of Catholics world wide? The majority of Catholics do not live in the US or in Europe, and the majority of Catholics that actually attend church more often than Christmas and Easter don't live in the the US or Europe, they live in South America, Africa and Asia, and they are very conservative/Orthodox in their beliefs. They don't want the church American Catholics seem to want.

Yes, Just Me...

I know Americans are a small percentage of the church, but why do you avoid addressing exactly what they want?

They want priests to be able to marry, to eliminate the church as a haven for the sexually confused and weak. They want nuns ordained, which would bring more young woman into the church. And, they want the church to reverse its ban on contraception, which has exacerbated the AIDS crisis in many Catholic Third World nations.

However, bottom line, is that this just another substitute issue to slam the Left, because there's not really much for you to be proud about these days.

I think you're mistaken -- ... (Below threshold)
Mark A:

I think you're mistaken -- liberals do not have a visceral hatred of religion, neither do they hate all religion.

They simply hate any religion but theirs.

I am an "American Catholic"... (Below threshold)
-S-:

I am an "American Catholic" and I am not in disagreement with the Vatican nor the former nor current Pope and more. Happy to be a Catholic, happy to be an American, know many, many others who feel likewise, who have no sense of disagreement nor "outrage" about our Catholic faith and principles and the Church and more.

What it is is that LIBERALS NEED everyone to fall into THEIR understanding of what is preferred in the world: euthanasia on demand, abortion on demand, homosexuality as integrated normalacy into human behaviors and social standards and a few other things including women as "priests" and the idea that Holy Communion is a social grace that anyone under any circumstances should enjoy because it makes everyone happy.

I generalize -- I realize, but I intended to -- but those are the motivating issues that most base nearly all their malignment about Catholicism upon. That and some among certain other Christian groups who misperceive Catholicism as a practice of "idolatry" (which it isn't, but the misperception remains by some).

All the rest is liberal theology -- it IS theology by liberals, a sorta "let's rewrite the religious theology of others to make it suit our purposes" beahvior and "belief" and dedication in religious fervor style to a socio-political process of liberalism. The Pope accurately refers to it/that as humanism/progressiveness/popularism...but all work and work correctly and accurately.

And, about the Episcopal Church, no, it is not at all, not by diametrical opposite, the same as Catholicism nor other Christian practices in the current permutation that it exists in the U.S.

Not at all, not nearly. As a Christian, I could never pariticpate in today's Episcopal Church, since many of their spokespersons are endorsing various statements that demean Scripture and certainly profane Jesus Christ.

But, no surprise there, it delights American progressives. Because it doesn't call them to change or denounce wrong behaviors and certainly isn't motivating them toward salvation. Sin can be comfortable sometimes like that.

(^^) ...all those TERMS wor... (Below threshold)
-S-:

(^^) ...all those TERMS work and work correctly and accurately (to identify and describe the problem).

Statements made (FOX, April... (Below threshold)
-S-:

Statements made (FOX, April 30) by Episcopal bishop John Shelby Spong (author of, no less, a book called "The Sins of Scripture" !!):

"...watch out for human beings claiming to know how God operates..."

--He's a supposed leader among persons interested in Scripture, which he denounces as containing "Sins" so no surprise that he'd be fearful of anyone who would have a word from God.

Advises people to "pray to the God presence..."

-- reasonably good indication that the guy is referring to some form of spiritualism that doesn't involve Jesus Christ...


Says, "(he'd) rather be in Hell than be in Heaven with people like that" (referring to those undesirables that he fears who may believe that they know what God wants, determines, etc.).

-- I am pretty sure that the bishop will get his preference unless he is saved by divine grace in the coming times...

About his suggestion that he and others "pray to the God presence..." was aksed if he "believed that God would protect his child in Iraq," responded, "NO!...but I pray because I have to do that."

-- So, bishop guy has no faith, does not believe in the power of prayer, prays as an act that is expected of him or that he expects is 'right' social behavior, indicating a social club sorta understanding about what 'church' is and what his position in that involves.

Again, indicating relatively clearly that the guy is a cultist, not a Christian. But he has that "Episcopal church" bishop title and here the guy is, leading everyone astray.

It's truly shocking that anyone would even listen to him under the guise of Christianity.

The guy continued on to say... (Below threshold)
-S-:

The guy continued on to say that "Scripture has been used to hurt homosexuals and women and..."

Asked to identify what aspects, what sections, had been used to "hurt" persons, the 'bishop' could not.

The man is a cultist.

Anti-religion? My only sur... (Below threshold)
Joe Mormon:

Anti-religion? My only surprise is that Jay Tea didn't write it.

As a Catholic I rejoice in ... (Below threshold)
Cadrial:

As a Catholic I rejoice in the type of man who is our new Pope. He is a man who understands what it means to be a Catholic. I church is a church if it adhears to it's founding beliefs religiously. If the church is willing to change it beliefs to satisfy people instead of teaching people the message of God and the church, then it is just a social club with odd rituals. No church should ever comprimise it's fundimental views.
Religion is about having faith that the teaching of the church and the information in the bible are true without requiring proof. If there is a solid belief, no change in the church that violates the basic belief should ever be acceptable.
Either your a Catholic or your not. What you believe decides this.

You talk about the NYT for ... (Below threshold)

You talk about the NYT for bias against religion. Try reading the Los Angeles Times. Pretty much the rule is Christianity - bad; everything else - good.

If I can be so bold as to plug a critique of a recent LAT column entitled "the LA Times Can't Even Cover Religion W/Out Bias"

"www.independentsources.com




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