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Quote Of The Day - Four Dead In Ohio Edition

"I don't care if you've never listened to anybody before in your life. I am begging you right now, if you don't disperse right now, they're going to move in. It will only be a slaughter. Please, listen to me. Jesus Christ, I don't want to be part of this. Listen to me,"
Kent State Professor Glenn Frank (picture), in an impromptu speech made to students after National Guard fire on a crowd of war protesters left 4 dead and 9 wounded. Frank's message was heeded and additional loss of life prevented. Wednesday is the 35th anniversary of the Kent State shootings [CNN coverage of the 30th anniversary, Kent State May 4 Collection]

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Comments (19)

- You contemporary, traitor... (Below threshold)

- You contemporary, traitorous protesters were not the problem then, and generally speaking you're not really the problem now. If you want to comment on Kent state, an incident that more than likely happened before you were born, you should take some of that mis-guided anti-Republican angst and go read the true story behind Kent. Chief among the enlightenments you might find is the whole thing was carefully orchastrated by the SDS and Underground Weatherman leftist organizations who carefully slipped out of town, once they had the ball rolling and manipulated and incited the locals to do their dirty work for them. Even the girl in that imfamouse picture was a 15 year old runaway who had not a thing to do with the campus. It never ceases to amaze Me how far out in left field people will get with their emotion based yammering with not a fking clue as to what they're talking about. Get a clue Joser......

you guys wax extatic abo... (Below threshold)

you guys wax extatic about how you repubs dream of this happening to we contemporary, traitorous protesters and worse.

Do what now?

Joser, are you confusing your fantasy life with real life again?

For God's sake, Joser, get ... (Below threshold)
-S-:

For God's sake, Joser, get a grip.

About Kent State: if a man (or woman) with a gun, much less an organized, uniformed group of them (well, uniformed or not), has rifles pointed at you and is advancing upon you yelling directives to disperse or "lie down" (close enough), then you need to lie down or disperse.

Dispersal would be my choice and most with any sense unless you were too close to the weapons to run out of range.

You can ask all the questions you want to later, pose all the possibilities you can argue about later, but the idea that people advanced upon a militia and even taunted them while weapons were raised, was -- here you go -- irresponsible.

It didn't mean they should die. The order to fire was questionable but the very behavior by the protestors was irresponsible, and irresponsible as to their own lives.

It's like jumping off a bridge: you can yell all you want on your way down that no one was there to stop you, but you'll still face a bitter end. Your choice, as in, best not to jump and THEN start forming relationships with people who are more likely to be there with you when you consider jumping off a bridge.

Close enough.

People are easily and wrecklessly influenced by these sort of social protests...it attracts highly irresponsible people and among marginal personalities, inspire even more wrecklessness.

It has nothing to do with political parties, inherently, but as to the issue of personal responsibility. If you're on the wrong end of a gun, don't be stupid.

The Kent State protests wer... (Below threshold)
-S-:

The Kent State protests were in objection to the Vietnam War, yes?

So, throwing cans, bottles, other objects, destroying property, threatening bodily harm to others, those are "peaceful" actions by "peace" intended persons?

No, they were wanton destructive acts by irresponsible people assuming that a college provided safety from punishment/accountability for their crimes.

Someone called in the National Guard BECAUSE the beavior was so outrageeous, particularly for relatively innocent Midwestern college campuses up to that point. It was an eye opener for American college campuses, yes, a horrible one, but the fact was that those students were running amok without regard for their behavior -- I guess assuming that there'd be no reprimand.

I think, although horribly tragic, it also pointed out the naivete of many in America at that time as to the actual message of violence that lay and still does among most 'anti war' processes. Ward Churchill comes to mind and what it is he 'inspires' -- and it isn't free speech, peace and an end to war, it is violence, a one-note fascism (the real kind) of socialist imperative, and the destruction of those who 'oppose' the plan.

Well, if my fantasy world i... (Below threshold)

Well, if my fantasy world is Wizbang, then you're right McGehee because this is where I hear random cute remarks about harm being done to we traitorous war protesters. I am aware of the Kent State shooting which I never even mentioned being a peaceful protest. And why bring all this Ward Churchill shit up again and again. He has his little cult of followers, but I'm absolutely positive that we liberals as a whole support his right to spout his bullshit (which a lot of his points make sense like a lot of your bullshit points make sense), but we don't bow down to suck him off like the righties would do for Bush. So have fun validating and rationalizing the Kent State shooting, my point has been made. But for shits and giggles, how about some more of that wishing harm to evildoer moonbats while you're at it. I know I don't have to say please for that one.

Is it wrong of me to say th... (Below threshold)
shark:

Is it wrong of me to say that it's too bad that more of these traitor hippies weren't killed? Well, if it is, too bad. These useful idiots were a great 2nd front for the North Viets, and to this day they still don't get just how much death and destruction they really caused (outside of their pathetic rioting and "peaceful" protesting that is...)

Only in God's eyes is that ... (Below threshold)

Only in God's eyes is that wrong my friend. Only in his eyes, but don't be too concerned about that one.

Joser, please get a grip. ... (Below threshold)
-S-:

Joser, please get a grip. You are truly writing from a place that is not well balanced.

You read *all that* in wherever you *want* to, like seeing what you chose...you appear to project an entire lot of inner psychological confusion onto the world around you. That includes any user who fails your upset.

I mean, WHO here is "validating and rationalizing the Kent State shooting..."

And, were you THERE, were you even ALIVE at that time? No, I really doubt that.

I think you are quite confused about realities, looking back over history through an affected present. If you'd been alive during the time when Kent State happened, you'd have some perspective.

I also don't know what you mean by "only in God's eyes is that wrong my friend..."

WHAT is "wrong" and who is "God" to you and what is the theological knowledge that you allude to? And who is your "friend"?

Not that you don't have friends but if you're writing in reference to me, you're even more confused. Friendship involves a relationship of mutual respect and reliance.

Joser...about you not actua... (Below threshold)
-S-:

Joser...about you not actually experiencing the Sixties, there was a concerted effort by communism in the U.S. to annoy, upset and disturb and most of that was conducted on college campuses.

Like trusting waifs, most children arrived at eighteen or so and bought the "peace" message and were recruited haplessly into joining in on what later became clearly an attept to undermine the credibility of the United States.

This is a great country. Don't be suckered into the lies that you hear and read and see that try to manipulate you into other territory. Citizenship relies upon individual responsibility and the group at Kent State had sufficient prior warning about the impending danger that they faced. They even aggressed upon the National Guard, who were armed.

A lot of people even wondered if the kids involved were encouraged to self destruction...I wouldn't be surprised if they were (but I don't know that, just speculating as to possibilities).

I in no way condone or suggest that shooting anyone with intention is religiously correct. Sometimes the act is in defense of the greater good, in which case I do not believe that God considers it wrong to protect life; more clearly, it is wrong to denigrate and threaten life and protecting life, maintaining life, is not wrong.

The National Guard involved also was not highly trained and it's more than likely that some of them fired their weapons due to their own fear of harms. The situation was not a well controlled one...but the responsibility rests on those who incited the incident and those who participated in the incident and defied adequate warning to modify their behavior and depart the situation.

What's all of this crap abo... (Below threshold)

What's all of this crap about having to be there in order to have an oppinion on it? I never contested that there was a valid reason behind the shooting. Do you see me insulting the officers who did the killing? Actually, I don't even remember expressing an opinion on the actual indident, but thanks for putting words in my mouth. Since it's your perogative to distort, distort, and distort some more, let me spell it out for you children. I was only commenting on how you hollier-than-thou motherfuckers want to show your self as morally and intellectually superior to what you make up to be your idea of liberals, yet don't have the decency to respect human life. Regardles if serious or in jest, it is trite and stupid to devalue human life for the sake of political argument. I could easily sway any argument to, if hypocritical, slimy, and just plain sadistic repugnantcans would actually support the war by going to Iraq and getting their ass blown up or sniped by the very guns that thery allowed terrorists to get by shitting on any effort to enforce millitary grade gun control, the US would be such a nicer, serene place. Do you see the intelligence and tact I convey with such a literary brilliance by saying you all should die? I didn't either, but somehow I believe those kind of arguments when introduced from your side make you feel all warm and fuzzy and superior. I hope it's not too hot in Hell (or cold if your into Dante's version). I'll see you there.

Oh, one more disclaimer, wh... (Below threshold)

Oh, one more disclaimer, which I guess is necessary for all of you word twisting folks. I claim only to have an opinion on what God sees as wrong and right, and my statement of opinion that you will be burning in Hell is just a literary tool. I know you know that already, but if I didn't put this in, I know the next reply will be about how I am holier that thou for having a personal opinion about how we are all God's creation and should all be respected as such and blah blah blah, so find something else to distort. But then again, how many religions promote the belittleing of human life except for maybe right wing motherfuckers who think they are God or in some elite relationship with God and extremist Islamists. I'm sure there are more, but I try to stay away from that negativity, so I wouldn't really know.

- Oh touchy, touchy Joser. ... (Below threshold)

- Oh touchy, touchy Joser. Mot only is it a waste of time listening to the opinions of someone who has not a fking clue, its even more idiotic when people like yourself profess all this time honored liberal intensity and demand to speak "your" mind when you can't wait to line up with the rest of the useful morons to bleat and yammer loudly on the next marxist creedo. Sheep always make the most noise when they wander from the flock. But thats all it really is. Juat noise.

Well it looks like Joser wa... (Below threshold)
Scott H:

Well it looks like Joser was the only Liberal willing to take on the issue...so in the spirit of keeping free speech alive:

"the whole thing was instigated by the SDS and weather underground..."

who were in turn heavily infiltrated by FBI provocatuers (remember the COINTELPRO program anyone?) who's mission was to agitate and cause civil unrest that would provide the basis for criminal prosecution and a general clamping down on dissent.

"the very behavior of the protestors was irresponsible..."

yes, clearly it was irresponsible in America to engage in peaceful protest against a government policy they felt was terribly wrongheaded because they should have known the Government would kill them with no more thought than the British did at Amristar in 1919...only the irresponsiblly young would actually believe the Government allowed them to have freedom.

"it also pointed out the naivete of many in America at that time..."or like the British did in Boston in 1770

"it's too bad that more of these traitor hippies weren't killed...to this day they still don't know how much death and destruction they really caused..." that would be compared to the death and destruction of 50,000 American servicemen and women, not to mention countless Vietnamese, by two administrations more concerned with saving their political hides and face than in saving America.

"an attempt to undermine the credibility of the United States..."which given its actions at the time, deserved to be undermined.

"sometimes the act (of shooting protestors) is in defense of the greater good"...nice thought, let's be sure to let the Chinese know that all is forgiven for Tianamen Square.

"the responsibility rests on those who incited the incident..."and clearly not with those who sent poorly trained, nervous armed guardsmen into an uncontrolled situation.

"holier than thou motherf*ckers..."well only God knows if they're holier, and we can't be sure how many of them had mothers...so let's just say what we do know...their idea of a "free" America is a place were everyone does what the Government tells them to do, when they're told to do it, without complaint or question...and where the punishment for disobediance is a quick trial for treason followed by a hanging...and of course they'll pride themselves all the while on being such staunch anti-Government Conservatives.

Which leads up to one final point...had those "traitorous hippies" not taken to the streets what would have happened? Do you beleive we would have "won" any sooner, or with less American dead and crippled?

At the end of the day, the argument over Vietnam, and Iraq, isn't about peace versus war. it's really about two visions of what America is supposed to be. One vision is a Republic, the other an Empire. The Constitution clearly points towards the former, while the hearts of men drags us towards the latter.

God Bless America and keep her safe!

Scott

Scott H for some of these f... (Below threshold)
-S-:

Scott H for some of these following points (not all of them)...I nor anyone else to my read ever wrote or suggested, even, that "peaceful protest (was/is)...irresponsible..."

And, in the case of the incident that occured at Kent State those decades ago, the protestors invoved were not behaving peacefully.

If they HAD been peaceful in their behavior, the National Guard would not have been called nor responded nor arrived armed.

The rest of what you write has nothing to do with any "right of free speech". Go read what that actually means...it's all over the internet and in your local library, in copies of our Constitution and other related documents.

The "argument over Vietnam" never was made with any clarity because disorder and traitorous undermining of the country took over and it went downhill from there. Just look at the wastefulness of ethics that John Kerry has been allowed to languish in all these years in the Senate based upon all that dishonesty.

Kent State was a tragedy but it was a snowballing episode that started with certain people who were not students, had nothing to do with Kent State otherwise, who arrived there to foment social disorder and used "the Vietnam War" to do so.

And the students who then piled on -- it's easy to get many teenagers to run amok about something if you egg them on enough and no one is there to provide an example otherwise -- were responsible for social disorderly conduct, even damage to property, followed by aggressing upon the National Guard once they arrived. Even after being warned by the school official, declined to disperse.

I don't know which is worse, however: that some misbehaving guy was shot to death by someone following orders who was probably scared to death himself, or, that there has been set into motion all these decades that it was 'peaceful protest' that took place there, that day (it wasn't), and that the many distortions have been further manipulated and encouraged by irresponsible madmen like Churchill and other liberal professors eager to find venues for antisocial attitudes.

And so what we have today is false pretense using the Kent State incident to try to advance greater social disorder and political unrest in the country. It's only being sold to, however, certain liberals who will deny the truths of that incident regardless of what's before them.

Joser, sadly but obviously,... (Below threshold)
-S-:

Joser, sadly but obviously, cannot comprehend the truth and it's a waste of time to try to even anticipate that he and those like him might.

I've yet to read what objective Joser has, what country they imagine, what it is that they'd do with our national resources and the country itself otherwise. I'm betting that Joser and those like him just want to encourate anarchy and have no greater plan beyond that.

Hey all you left leaning fl... (Below threshold)
Conspiracy!:

Hey all you left leaning flamer liberals out there who hate the right. You want the political righte to respect your so-called fucking freedom of speech? Well, when someone on the right speaks their mind, you call it fucking racism or you blame the fucking jews or you want to sue us. Well, you lefties can kiss my white-anglo ASS. Gee, little liberal, did I FUCKING offend you? What you gonna do, sue me or stone me or call me Bush?

Joser, I'll bet you would like to blame Kent State 1970 on George W. Bush? In fact, I'll bet you try to blame all of life's problems on George W. Bush. He may not be the best president we have ever had, he is not that good, but at least he is trying to lead. So Joser, go FUCK yourseld

S wrote:People ... (Below threshold)
ryan:

S wrote:

People are easily and wrecklessly influenced by these sort of social protests...it attracts highly irresponsible people and among marginal personalities, inspire even more wrecklessness.

That can happen, but its not like thats some sort of law...that doesnt always happen. Would you argue that ML King can be lumped into one of those "highly irresponsible people"?

And, were you THERE, were you even ALIVE at that time? No, I really doubt that.

Thats a weak line of argument. In our thinking, in order to have an opinion about the Holocaust, a person would have had to be THERE or been alive at the time. Hardly.

I in no way condone or suggest that shooting anyone with intention is religiously correct. Sometimes the act is in defense of the greater good...

What "greater good" was served by killing students at Kent State? I dont see one at all. The situation was bad on multiple fronts, and it got out of hand. The "peaceful" protesters weren't all that peaceful [which is something that happens all too often] and the National Guard didnt handle the situation well at all.

Both sides were probably scared, and nervous. The whole thing was really tragic and sad and unfortunate. Like many things, there isnt just one black and white answer that lines up nicely with a certain political ideology.

I think that you bring up alot of good points about the perceptions of the incident, and how the Liberal side doesnt always really consider what was really going on; the actual behavior and responsibility of the protesters themselves, and how they were a part of the whole conflict and problem.

People that I know that lived through that time period say that things were really scary and chaotic. People were really worried about the state of the US, and the anger and division that was so rampant. I've been told that it was really a very stressfull time, and that it felt like the country was going to fall to pieces.

Kent State is a symptom of that division, and not something to be either proud of, or happy about, from any political standpoint. We dont want things to devolve to that point here, ever. We should be able to disagree, to speak our minds, without resorting to violence, threats, or force. Thats why things run so relatively smoothly here in the US, because we can discuss issues and make changes without taking up arms.

I'm all for hearing the opinions of all sides. It's all necessary, and healthy. I dont like it when either side talks to the other like they are any less a part of this country, like they have any less rights, or are any less human.

That was about 5 cents...sorry.

^^^TypoFourth para... (Below threshold)
ryan:

^^^Typo

Fourth paragraph:

Should read "In YOUR thinking" not "In OUR thinking"

I suck.

Joser:I understand... (Below threshold)
ryan:

Joser:

I understand where you're coming from dude, but dont get all indignant when people jump all over you when you start off the comments with this:

A lot of you are probably glad that these people were killed. It's a shame that you people would wish harm upon any American, but I guess that's the repugnantcan way.

I dont think thats really a great way to engage in a discussion with someone, by charging them with something that they havent even done. You're just inviting another repetitive flame war with something like this. Why do it?

Instead, why not ask people what they think about the subject? Calling someone a "repugnantcan" isnt exactly a mature beginning for a discussion. Maybe you should rethink your methods dude.




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