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I need this like I need another hole in my head... or elsewhere...

Occasionally, as a rebellion against the dress code at work that requires me to wear a tie, I wear subversive buttons on the back. I had to retire one of my favorites after 9/11 ("God was my co-pilot, but we crashed in the mountains and I had to eat Him"), but I still have a few I like.

One of them espouses something I've believed for years: "God invented body piercing so people with tattoos wouldn't feel so stupid."

(There's a variant I've used: "WebTV was invented so people with AOL could have someone they could feel superior to.")

I don't "get" tattoos and body piercing. It just screams out to me "I'm a rebel and a non-conformist, so I'm going to express my individualism just the way everyone else does by permanently mutilating my body" to me.

And this morning, I find this story of a navel piercing gone horribly wrong.

I feel so vindicated.


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Comments (64)

.....anything trendy that c... (Below threshold)
mark m:

.....anything trendy that causes alot of pain and results in "yucky, nasty discharge"....well, nuff said.

"The piercing had pierce... (Below threshold)
a4g:

"The piercing had pierced through the hernia sac, coming through my stomach lining and out," she said.

The experience hasn't completely turned her off to piercings, she said. When done right, she said, it can look cool.

Cool.

It just screams out to ... (Below threshold)

It just screams out to me "I'm a rebel and a non-conformist, so I'm going to express my individualism just the way everyone else does

I used to say this in highschool about the kids who did the punk thing. Just goes to show that there ain't nuthin' new under the sun.

This pretty much says it al... (Below threshold)
bullwinkle:

This pretty much says it all for tattoos. 3.6 meg download but worth it!

http://www.yuzik.ca/extras/SNL_Tattoo.wmv

The article says she was 17... (Below threshold)

The article says she was 17 so her idiot mother had to take her and give permission for the piercing.

Stupidity is hereditary.

Mutilate my body to express... (Below threshold)
Just Me:

Mutilate my body to express my individuality? I'll pass.

My daughter came home with ... (Below threshold)

My daughter came home with her nose pierced once. She was 16. I verbally threatened the business owner who allowed it and made her take it out. It became infected even before it healed. She's 27 now and thanks me for it.

I got a Kanji tattoo while ... (Below threshold)

I got a Kanji tattoo while living in Australia (hell, everyone was doing it at the time). Turns out it doesn't mean what it's supposed'ta. Ah, well. I still like it.

It's probably a generation ... (Below threshold)

It's probably a generation thing. I got my ears pierced in my 20's though I grew up with my mother threatening holy hell for doing something so "cheap" as piercing my ears.

Now, my daughters are as responsible as young people can get...

Jennifer, 26, paramedic (starting nursing school for RN this fall)...pierced navel, blue rose tatoo on left shoulder blade

Erin, 24, mom of twins, dragon tatoo on left shoulder blade

Heather, 22, college student, restaurant manager in training, pierced navel, tatoo of moon and sun on small of back

Siobhan, 17, honors student, band drum major, off to college this fall, only 4 ear piercings but is contemplating a tatoo after she turns 18

They have all done, however, what Jay does... their tatoos/piercings are not visible in work or street clothing. They have never been stupid about it.

Come on Jay Tea...go easy b... (Below threshold)

Come on Jay Tea...go easy big fella. I'm a VP with a Fortune 200 company and have tats and ear rings - I just have things covered up / not in while at work. When I'm not at work, I lose the exec look. It's fun being able to play both sides of the fence.

Go easy there, Jay. And th... (Below threshold)
Ken:

Go easy there, Jay. And the rest of you. Don't condemn something just because you aren't interested in it yourself.

I'm a fresh four year college grad (in my mid-twenties) working in the medical field and I have no problem with piercings or tattoos. I'm not rebellious in any way, shape, or form. Neither are my friends, most are married and fresh out of college working in respectable professions.

I have had a body piercing, have an earring (I'm a guy), and am getting a (tasteful) tattoo very soon. People in my generation don't see it as a rebellious thing to do. It's pretty common and not all that individual, either. According to National Geographic News (back in April 2000), 40 million Americans have at least one tattoo. (15% of Americans back then) Maybe not so in the circles of friends that you maintain, but I have very few friends who do not have a tattoo or body piercing.

It is not inherently dangerous or unsafe as long as you do your homework and use common sense. Go to a licensed facility that has lots of experience, uses sterile one-time-use equipment, and that has a strong reputation.

Tattoos can be a unique way of express parts of your personality, faith, and credo. Body piercing can be used to tastefully adorn your body similarly to ear-piercings. I see no problem with either

Hey, I just thought it funn... (Below threshold)

Hey, I just thought it funny that people choose to express their individuality in exactly the same ways.

I see them as a fad that wi... (Below threshold)
bullwinkle:

I see them as a fad that will be hard to deny participating in a few years down the road when the fad dies. They aren't like platform shoes and bell-bottom pants you can hang in the back of the closet while waiting for them to come back into fashion. They also can ruin those plans of faking your death for the insurance money, not only do you need someone your size, you have to look for a cadaver with your second ex-wife's name tattooed in the same spot. They are a lot like my second ex-wife, gotten on a whim but difficult and very expensive to get rid of. Just out of curiosity, anyone here about 6'3" 190 pounds, with "Janet" tattooed on his right bicep?

I don't know Jay, I think a... (Below threshold)

I don't know Jay, I think a small lil elephant tattoed in red/white/blue on your butt cheek might be just the thing to make you feel special...;-)

Tatoo America. Great place... (Below threshold)
SJBill:

Tatoo America. Great place.
Our motto: "We do mutilations, too!"

Nausea had its share of cutters before it became chic elsewhere. I could never understand it.

A guy I work with did atongue ring. In a week it became infected. It took surgery and major bucks to undo that mess.

Gilchrist explained Brew's ... (Below threshold)
sandspur:

Gilchrist explained Brew's stomach had twisted around the ring. Over time, the twisting became more and more painful, until finally Brew could no longer ignore it, she said.

Duh, she never thought to TAKE THE RING OUT !?!

bullwinkle, for the right p... (Below threshold)
fatman:

bullwinkle, for the right price I'll grow eight inches, lose ** pounds and get a tattoo.

Skybird wrote:J... (Below threshold)
ryan:

Skybird wrote:

Just like a youth named ELLIOT CHAMBERS who was told he could wear a STREIGHT PRIDE T-shirt or the other youth who they tried to force him to turn his NRA T-shirt inside out but they refused to allow these bastions of PC nonsense intimadate them they sued in court and had the schools dress code struck down its time for the PC bunch to go home to their weird communes

WHAT???

lol

Should there be some type of punctuation in there at some point, or what? Or is that writing from the Jack Kerouac school of spontaneous blog posting???

Jay Tea:Oh ya, abo... (Below threshold)
ryan:

Jay Tea:

Oh ya, about the actual topic.

I don't "get" tattoos and body piercing. It just screams out to me "I'm a rebel and a non-conformist, so I'm going to express my individualism just the way everyone else does by permanently mutilating my body" to me.

Ya, getting tattoos and piercings are more popular these days. That doesnt bother me. If people like them, good for them.

And its not like they're some new invention that Americans just created...both body piercings and tattoos go way back.

To each his own. No holes or ink for me though. I just always imagine how dumb I would look at 80 years old with some tribal tattoo. Nah, I'll pass.

Bullwinkle, what an idiotic... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

Bullwinkle, what an idiotic statement. It's kind of hard to maintain that tattoos are just a fad when they have been wildly popular since 3300 B.C. And Jay, lighten up man, you don't have much time in your skin, might as well enjoy it while you can. Contrary to your belief, not all people get tattoos to impress you.

Ryan wrote:And it... (Below threshold)
Ken:

Ryan wrote:
And its not like they're some new invention that Americans just created...both body piercings and tattoos go way back.

Bullwinkle wrote:
I see them as a fad that will be hard to deny participating in a few years down the road when the fad dies.

Umm... they've been around for thousands of years. That doesn't really constitute a fad (defined: "A fashion that is taken up with great enthusiasm for a brief period of time; a craze") I don't think they're going away anytime soon, Bullwinkle. Heck, I know plenty of grandparents with tattoos. I'm sure that my kids will be doing the same thing. And their kids.. and their kids..

Ryan's got the right attitude. He knows they're not for him, but doesn't have a problem with them. And D-Hoggs is right, too: most people don't get tattoos or piercings for your attention; they do it for themselves. (some people do it for attention, but who cares? I can think of worse things to do for attention.)

Like my tattoo, it's faith-based and not out in the open for the world to see. It's a private expression and a reminder to myself. Expand your horizons and embrace culture. You don't have to participate, but learn to accept it as something other than
"it..screams out to me "I'm a rebel and a non-conformist, so I'm going to express my individualism just the way everyone else does."" (Jay Tea)

Sorry, Jay Tea, but that comment screams ignorance to me and most of my peers.

D-hoggs, I based that on th... (Below threshold)
bullwinkle:

D-hoggs, I based that on the countless people who actually grew up and wished they hadn't been stupid enough to get tattoos. They consider tattoos a fad too, one they wish they had not participated in. As far as them being wildly popular for a long periods of time, they may have been moderately popular at different times in the past, but I doubt that they would ever be considered "wildly popular" by anyone reasonable. If they are wildly popular now then Jay was exactly right, they hardly make you unique or some kind of rebel, they make you just on more sheep in the herd. Baaaaaad choice that's difficult and expensive to erase.

<a href="http://seattlepi.n... (Below threshold)
bullwinkle:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/lifestyle/150465_tattoo29ww.html

Imagine that, the latest fad in the non-fad tatoo fad is getting rid of them.

Bullwinkle, if you want to ... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

Bullwinkle, if you want to go fishing around on the internet for stories that support your "fad" theory, go for it, I could do the same finding stories that blow it away. Oh I don't know, like the scores of military men dating back ages who engage in tattooing, for one. If you want to argue that tattooing is a fad, then you are basically just trying to change the definition of the word fad. Fads die out, tattooing never has and I dare say, with history on my side, never will. So get real.

Man, would you like to re-r... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

Man, would you like to re-read the article you are relying on as well? "No hard numbers exist for tattoo removals" Wow, now that is a really compelling peice of evidence that tattooing is a fad. I'm sure the percentage of people getting tattooed compared to those getting them removed is overwhelming. If you want to make the argument that many people make bad choices and get stupid tattoos, by all means, you'd be 100% correct, but fad, 100% wrong.

...you don't have much t... (Below threshold)

...you don't have much time in your skin, might as well enjoy it while you can.

Right -- by turning it into a billboard sign.

And y'know, there are other things that have been around for thousands of years...

Ok, ok, tattooing is not a... (Below threshold)
bullwinkle:

Ok, ok, tattooing is not a fad. Lets just say that it's popularity fluctuates from a very small percentage of to a miniscule percentage of the population as it goes in and out of style. Currently it is stylish so a larger percentage of people are sheepish enough to want to try prove they are unique and dazzlingly individual that record numbers of them are being unique, which will be follow by lower numbers indulging in sheeplike behavior when the currently very, very unfad-like fad becomes somewhat less stylish and the sheep-like begin to follow whatever very, very unfadlike fad then becomes the style, I'm think that may mutton-chop sideburns. Those who indulge themselves in that act of futility in an attempt to be "different" will them point out that they aren't engaged in any way in a fad, since mutton-chops have long been adorning the faces of men, most recently during the American civil war, but they are truly the first generation to have mutton-chops AND tatoos, and this will set them on a plateau high above other attempts at individualism. Until the art of mutton-chop tattoos then becomes the style. Yeah right. Not a fad. Not a fad. Got it!

"there are other things tha... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

"there are other things that have been around for thousands of years..."

Of course there are, so what? What doe sthat have to do with anything? So since other things have been around for thousands of years to than I guess tattooing really is a fad. Nice logic.

Bullwinkle, I can barely un... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

Bullwinkle, I can barely understand what you are trying to get at here. But if you think that all people who get tattoos are trying to "prove" that they are individuals, you are sadly mistaken. Sure there are plenty of girls who get the customary rose on their breast or the meatheads that get the customary barbed wire around their arm, but to make a sweeping generalization that all people who get tattooed are trying to be rebels or prove their indviduality is ridiculous. Have you ever considered that some people just like them, that its their body and that its none of your business what they do with them? Bullwinkle, do you wear blue jeans? I would assume you do, bah, bah little sheep.

Could you also please expla... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

Could you also please explain to me how tattoos are such a fad, and how all these people are just doing what everyone else is doing and following the herd, yet at the same time you say, "fluctuates from a very small percentage of to a miniscule percentage of the population". If there are so few people getting them whether popular or not, then your whole argument is shot to hell and you proved it with your own words.

Hey, I agreed with you alre... (Below threshold)
bullwinkle:

Hey, I agreed with you already, tattoos are not a fad, they will rule the world as the standard of exactly how everyone should use their skin as mobile art museums for ever and ever, or until the trend dies out and it's only done by sailors, bikers, and convicts again.

So you're just going to ign... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

So you're just going to ignore the fact that you've been trying to argue that people who get tattoos are just sheep in the herd, but at the same time maintaining that those getting tattoos, "fluctuates from a very small percentage of to a miniscule percentage of the population"? Because those two arguments are in direct contradiction.

I almost forgot gang member... (Below threshold)
bullwinkle:

I almost forgot gang members, one of the 4 groups I think we all should immitate, sailors, bikers, convicts and gang members. Show me a guy named Popeye on death row for doing a drive-by on his Harley and I'll show you the greatest pop-icon of the 21st century!

Yeah, because getting a tat... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

Yeah, because getting a tattoo, OBVIOUSLY means that you want to emulate a gang member. Some more priceless logic from Bullwinkle.

Wasn't it you that pointed ... (Below threshold)
bullwinkle:

Wasn't it you that pointed out that tattoos aren't a fad because they've been around so long? You claim to be not participating in a fad because it's not a fad, it's a tradition, I just pointed out what groups traditionally got tattoos. If following a tradition isn't sending the message that you approve of that tradition and you didn't get your tattoos at gunpoint you must be paying homage to the groups that established the tradition.

That is just absolutely lud... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

That is just absolutely ludicrous logic. Not to mention I never ONCE said tattooing is a tradition. It is however an art for that has been around for ages and has been enjoyed by many more persons than bikers and gangs. Leaders of this country for example, and men who've died for it, but I guess they were just "paying homage" to their favorite criminals. By your logic, I could easily say that people with tattoos are obviously just trying to be JUST like Holocaust victims, yippee!!

Let me also point out that ... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

Let me also point out that just because you think the only people that get tattoos are sailors, bikers, convicts and gangs, in NO way means that these groups "established" the "tradition" as you like to say. Tattooing has been tied to every part of every culture and because a lot of bikers and criminals have adopted the practice means absolutely nothing. Just as many regular people, military people, oppresed people (think Japanese body suits) and members of aristocracy have adopted tattooing as well. Criminals wear blue jeans too, so you better cut that practice out, unless you want to be "paying homage" to them.

Other then the current FAD ... (Below threshold)
bullwinkle:

Other then the current FAD that has been around for the few short years since tattoos became stylish, they were wildly popular with bikers, convicts, gang members and sailors. If you don't fall into one of those groups it's not traditional for you get one. It's that simple. It's a fad, get over it. You aren't special because you have one or a dozen. When the style dies like every other fad has you might admit it was nothing more than a fad, unless, of course, you're in jail, in which case you'll feel right at home and look like it too.

I'm gonna get a big tattoo ... (Below threshold)
Fcabanski:

I'm gonna get a big tattoo of Jay on my ass. That oughta start a fad.

Bullwinkle you are obviousl... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

Bullwinkle you are obviously grossly uneducated and uninformed on the topic and your arguments have all contradicted each other. It is useless trying to debate you as you are too ignorant and close-minded. Go on believing what you wish and living in your fantasy world.

Grossly uneducated? It's th... (Below threshold)
bullwinkle:

Grossly uneducated? It's that obvious huh? I always thought a masters was considered pretty good, so tell us all what you got your PHD in. We're all dying to know. Anyone that has to refer to someone that happens to disagree with them as uneducated must be a liberal arts major, so that'll be my guess. As far as my being uninformed, I'm just drawing on 45 years of experience and the hundreds of people that have told me they wished they'd never gotten a tattoo. Since I have been able to remain sober enough to not become a pincushion for some Rembrandt wannabe I can't speak from personal experience. Maybe someday you'll grow up and decide maybe that wasn't exactly the best decision to make, many people come to their senses, but then again that doesn't look too promising in your case. I'm also sorry I overlooked the other obvious demographic of body art worshippers, how many tickets does it cost to ride the Tilt-a-Whirl?

Bullwinkle:Othe... (Below threshold)
ryan:

Bullwinkle:

Other then the current FAD that has been around for the few short years since tattoos became stylish, they were wildly popular with bikers, convicts, gang members and sailors.

Tattoos go back alot further than bikers and sailors here in the US, as does body piercing. It's an old aspect of many cultures.

It just sounds to me like you don't like the idea of any of it, which is fine. What I dont understand is why you seem so pissed off about what other people do. If people like tattoos or piercings or mowhawks...more power to them. Why do you care so much about how other people live their lives?

If you don't fall into one of those groups it's not traditional for you get one. It's that simple. It's a fad, get over it. You aren't special because you have one or a dozen.

What kind of argument is that? So people cant do things that arent traditional for their culture? When was that rule made? So I suppose everyone who surfs in the US is really just doing it because its a fad, and all they care about is being special. They dont enjoy it or anything. I mean, surfing is traditional to Polynesians, so...

People can do what they want, they can express themselves however they want. I think thats a good thing. Some people wear tailored suits to express their identity, others get tattoos. There's plenty of room for everyone.

Maybe someday you'll gro... (Below threshold)
ryan:

Maybe someday you'll grow up and decide maybe that wasn't exactly the best decision to make, many people come to their senses, but then again that doesn't look too promising in your case.

Ah, I see. You envision yourself as the older, wiser guardian of right and wrong huh? Way to take the paternalistic attitude about this.

I'm also sorry I overlooked the other obvious demographic of body art worshippers, how many tickets does it cost to ride the Tilt-a-Whirl?

...and you threw in a nice deragatory stereotype to boot, just to exemplify your wisdom.

I understand the fact that you dont like the idea or practice of any of this. But why insult people who like it? What does that do? Why not just accept the difference and move on, instead of telling people how you're right and they're wrong. Maybe it's not really a matter of right and wrong, but just personal choice.

Ryan, never once in anythin... (Below threshold)
bullwinkle:

Ryan, never once in anything I have said here did I say I cared on way or the other what anyone did with their skin. I spoke my opinion on it, one a great many share, the only objection I had to what anyone said was that it has been "wildly popular" for years and that it was somehow "traditional". Neither statement is true except that it is wildly popular fad for about the last 20 years and the groups that traditionally got them aren't exactly the kind of people I'd want to hang out with. I couldn't care less if half the world wants to be painted blue and wear stainless steel underwear, that's their business, their right, and their problem. Like you say, it's a matter of personal choice. My being of the opinion that it doesn't exactly signal a great deal of maturity or sense in also a right. Expressing my opinion on the matter is every bit as much a right as the right for someone to tell how wrong they think I am. The funny thing about it is, that like most reasonable people I tend to not give a rat's ass what someone covered in tattoos thinks. Their opinion isn't likely to influence mine or anything to do with me. My only argument was and still is that it's hardly more than a fad for most of those not involved in the maritime industry, drive by shootings, motorcycles, those living on the state's expense and those dear souls working in the ever-important transient amusement ride business. The only people that got upset over any of it were the one's that want to believe that's it not a fad. D-hoggs didn't hesitate a moment to tell me how stupid I was for calling it a fad, "idiotic" was the term used, yet somehow just by calling it a fad I'm in the wrong? scroll up there to my second comment and see explain to me what I said that makes me an idiot. Go ahead, I've got all night.

Ryan, might I suggest that ... (Below threshold)
fatman:

Ryan, might I suggest that before you ridicule the postings of skybird, who obviously speaks and writes English as a second language, that you learn to speak and write his/her language at least as well as he/she speaks or writes English?

And by the way, the Preview button is there so you can see how your comment will look when it's posted and correct any errors. Just thought you'd like to know.

So let me get this straight... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

So let me get this straight Bullwinkle, you have a masters degree in tattooing? When did a masters degree all of a sudden make you an authority on all things? Cause sorry to tell you but it's not that hard to get a masters Bullwinkle. Let me also point out that I NEVER ONCE said that you are uneducated, I said, "grossly uneducated and uninformed on the topic", in case you are having trouble reading that again, it says ON THE TOPIC. While we're on the topic of things I've never said that you keep trying to attribute to me, I told you earlier that I never said tattooing is a tradition, those were YOUR words that you keep trying to say that I said. Now, you tell me that you have 45 YEARS of experience and PERSONALLY know HUNDREDS of people that have them, yet you still maintain that it is a fad. How does that work? And why is it that you PERSONALLY know HUNDREDS of sailors, gang members and convicts? Unless your masters is in criminal law, you must hang out with a real unsavory crowd. Furthermore, since you are such an authority on tattooing, you already know that the most artists (in the U.S. at least) would never ink a person under the influence for several reasons, the most important being that they can't sit straight, they vomit much easier, they pass out often bacause of the combination of thinned out blood due to the alcohol and the bleeding, AND, probably most important, lawsuits. But you already knew all that didn't you.

Bullwinkle:I dont ... (Below threshold)
ryan:

Bullwinkle:

I dont think that you're an idiot by any means. And as you say it is your right to express your opinion of the matter as well. You don't have to like it (tats, piercing), and you don't have to keep quiet about not liking it. Conversely, people who do like it should feel free to say so.

My only argument was and still is that it's hardly more than a fad for most of those not involved in the maritime industry, drive by shootings, motorcycles, those living on the state's expense and those dear souls working in the ever-important transient amusement ride business.

I understand where you are going with the whole "fad" argument...in essence that the practice was picked up by popular culture, and the people who had done it before in the US were gangsters, bikers, and sailors. There's another part to that equation, and that is the tattooing and piercing that has been going on for thousands of years among other cultures. There's some pretty interesting stuff about that in the anthropology circles; papers about the "New Tribalism". It was picked up by the "alternative" crowd and became really popular.

So, I get your point. I just wouldn't ever say that "like most reasonable people I tend to not give a rat's ass what someone covered in tattoos thinks." To me, that doesnt make alot of sense. There are all kinds of people who have tats, etc, some of them are fools and some are as "reasonable" as anyone. I just don't like the idea of judging a whole group of people in such a general way.

By the way, I think that second post of yours is really funny.

I know plenty of people who have tattoos, and piercings, etc., and a few people who are tattoo artists. There is non one way to describe or characterize the people that I know; they are all over the board in terms of personality, income, education, etc. And alot of them are just really cool people. Not all of them, mind you.

D-hoggs, if you knew excrem... (Below threshold)
bullwinkle:

D-hoggs, if you knew excrement from shoe polish about tattoos you'd know that almost every state has had to pass laws in the last 15 years to prevent drunks from getting tattoos. They didn't pass those laws because parlors weren't tattoing drunk people, they passed them because they were. Maybe if you studied up on things a little before you were so quick to claim nobody could possibly know more than you about something you might be right once in a while. I doubt it, but it could happen.

fatman:Ryan, mi... (Below threshold)
ryan:

fatman:

Ryan, might I suggest that before you ridicule the postings of skybird, who obviously speaks and writes English as a second language, that you learn to speak and write his/her language at least as well as he/she speaks or writes English?

Is it really that obvious that skybird speaks English as a second language? I HOPE that's the case, but am not really so sure. Tell me, how do you know this?

Tell me what language you think is skybird's first language. I hope it's not Mandarin Chinese, because that would be hard to learn.
Maybe we should ask. I'm pretty sure that English is his/her first language.

And by the way, the Preview button is there so you can see how your comment will look when it's posted and correct any errors. Just thought you'd like to know.

Ok fatman. You really got me that time. I'm so mortified.

Various spelling and grammar errors aren't really comparable to the consistently senseless, blatently erroneous, weird posts that skybird puts on here sometimes. But thanks for trying to show me the light.

Come on dude. Skybird writes some crazy shit on here sometimes, and I can't help throwing some jabs back. I think it's funny that you're defending that post up there. Did you READ it? You know it was wacky. Just admit it.

Bullwinkle, where did you g... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

Bullwinkle, where did you get this so called masters degree? Are you f'ing retarded? Did I not say that tattoo artists won't tattoo people under the influence?! Jesus Christ, try READING!! I said, "most artists (in the U.S. at least) would never ink a person under the influence". I use the word "most" because as someone who's head isn't up their ass, I know that not all tattoo artists are working out of tattoo parlours, and not all of them follow the law. I also went out of my way to mention they wouldn't do this mainly due to lawsuits, whay would I mention lawsuits? Because there are fucking laws against it! Holy fucking shit, can you read?!! Let me also go back to your own words, you said, "Since I have been able to remain sober enough to not become a pincushion" alluding to the fact that people who get tattoos are obviously drunk. I never called you uneducated before, but now I am really starting to wonder.

"if you knew excrement from... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

"if you knew excrement from shoe polish about tattoos you'd know that almost every state has had to pass laws in the last 15 years to prevent drunks from getting tattoos".

That statment coming from the person who says that everyone getting tattooed is drunk!! Laughable!

Here's a few people that Bu... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

Here's a few people that Bullwinkle counts among gang members and criminals who are just dying to express their individuality and would never influence him or anything to do with him, and should probably grow up:

Winston Churchill, and his mother
Thomas Edison (he obviously didn't influence you)
FDR
Barry Goldwater
JFK
Teddy Roosevelt
George Schultz
Bernard Montgomery
Kings Alexander, Alfoso, Edward VII, Frederick IX, George II, George V, Harold II, Henry IV
Peter the Great
Richard the Lion Hearted, King of England
Queen Victoria

At no time did I ever say t... (Below threshold)
bullwinkle:

At no time did I ever say that everyone that gets a tattoo is drunk. If you have a credible, honest point of view on this why do you have to make dishonest statements to support it? I never said that everyone that gets tattoos are criminals, bikers, gang members or sailors, I said that in the past (before the current FAD) they were the main ones to get them. Get a clue, get a life, hell, go get another tattoo, I couldn't care less. It only makes it easier for normal people to identify you.

OK, this should prove to ev... (Below threshold)
bullwinkle:

OK, this should prove to everyone's satisfaction that getting a tattoo does not make you a "rebel" or unique in any way, shape or form. If you've been reading these comments up to this point the very people that think they are somehow being different will go to any length to prove that it is the act of normal, even admirable people and the people getting tattoos are nothing more than the sheep Jay claimed they were and I agreed they were from the start. Thanks to D-hoggs help the case has been made and proven. Thanks for your cooperation D-hoggs, couldn't have done it without you. Isn't it amazing how trying to become unique only makes you common? Isn't it amazing how much effort some people will put into proving their failed attempt at being different failed? Unless, of course, all these people participating in the current FAD are getting inked just be conformists.....Nah, they'd never admit that either.

You are seriously an idiot ... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

You are seriously an idiot Bullwinkle. Straight up idiot. You are the one that stated, "Since I have been able to remain sober enough to not become a pincushion", obviously hinting that people that get tattoos are obviously drunk. You are also the one that continuously has been saying I said things that I did not, I have pointed it out many times, as well as many of the inconsistencies in your "argument" which you conveniently ignore. FURTHERMORE, YOU are the one that has been claiming from the start that people who get tattoos are trying to be different, not me, that is YOUR argument. I have never once said that they make you a rebel or different, I have only stated that they are unequivocally NOT a fad. Why don't you read your own statement, " If you have a credible, honest point of view on this why do you have to make dishonest statements to support it?" and heed it your damn self? You have consistently said things that I never said, you have consistently ignored your blatant conflicting arguments, and now you are trying to say that I was out to prove that getting tattooed makes you a rebel or unique, which I have not ONCE argued to, not ONCE. So try being honest yourself. You have ignored every idiotic conflicted statment that you've made and been called on, but, Nah, you'd never admit to that either.

"Since I have been able to ... (Below threshold)
bullwinkle:

"Since I have been able to remain sober enough to not become a pincushion", would mean to most people the I, with the mephasis on the "I" haven't gotten drunk and gotten tattooed means exactly that. I would have to be very drunk to get a tattoo. You can attempt to read into to that whatever you want to, but it won't make it true. You might be more than willing to get tattooed while sober, more power to you. Who cares, you proved the case that tattoos are for sheep, that was the original statement made by Jay, now you have proven it once again. Conformists who fear that won't be "Cool' enough get tattoos because of peer pressure, big deal, weak-minded people do all kinds of things, nothing new there. Now go away, I'm very bored with this. BTW tattooing is a fad, a long lasting one with varying degrees of popularity, but a fashion that has been coming and going for a long, long time. Get over it, admit the truth and move on.

I have no idea how you thin... (Below threshold)
D-Hoggs:

I have no idea how you think that I proved that tattoos are for sheep. Totally idiotic statement. I agreed with you before that many people get tattoos for stupid reasons but for you to make a ridiculous sweeping generalization that all people do it to be rebels or because of peer pressure or because they are weak minded is just absolutely ludicrous and false. Once again you have conveniently ignored all the conflicting statements you've made. JFK and FDR were obviously weak-minded and really wanted to be cool. I'm sure they would have never gotten tattooed had it not been for peer pressure too! Man, I'm going to have to look into getting one of those internet masters degrees, they seem to make you really smart. So you've been married and divorced twice now huh Bullwinkle? Well don't sweat it, weak-minded people do all kinds of things. You're an idiot, read into that however you want.

Ryan, you're absolutely rig... (Below threshold)
fatman:

Ryan, you're absolutely right. Since neither of us knows whether skybird's first language is English, I should have said "probably" instead of "obviously". I still think it's not, but we'll just have to agree to disagree. Oh, and I think it's Russian; she writes just like the Russian immigrant who runs the convenience store across the street from me talks.

I did go back and re-read her post; I'll admit that it isn't always easy, but it seemed obvi...quite likely, that is, to me that she was supporting yours and D-Hoggs point of view, which is one of the reasons why your attack on her post annoyed me.

The other reason I attacked your post is my upbringing. I was taught that while it was fine to disagree with someone, you shouldn't make fun of the way they talk. Or write, as the case may be.

As for the remark about the preview button (or bar, more accurately), I'm glad to have been of some help, though I wouldn't have used the words "consistently" and "sometimes" in the same sentence describing skybird's posts. But that's just me. You, on the other hand are much better at cutting and pasting then I am (I'm new to computers). Maybe you could give me some pointers.

fatman:Russian eh?... (Below threshold)
ryan:

fatman:

Russian eh? I thought they had some sort of grammatical rules in Russian. Maybe not though. I'll have to take your word for it.

I re-reread that post again, and am still unsure what point of view was being expressed. But thats just me.

The other reason I attacked your post is my upbringing. I was taught that while it was fine to disagree with someone, you shouldn't make fun of the way they talk. Or write, as the case may be.

Okay. Point taken. I guess you might want to read some more of skybird's previous comments. He/she isn't necessarily the most "balanced" commentor on this site. I try to be nice, but some people are just way over the top...the one in question really goes haywire on those evil "librels" to a ridiculous extent. Very caustic and reactionary in many cases.

As for the remark about the preview button (or bar, more accurately), I'm glad to have been of some help, though I wouldn't have used the words "consistently" and "sometimes" in the same sentence describing skybird's posts.

You're right, it could have been stated more clearly. That hanging "sometimes" is a bit ambiguous. However, I should have written something more along these lines to gain your support:

Veryus spilling and grammer errors cannot really comparable to the INSAINE senseless blatentleY erronyus hippie LIBREL hater weird posts skybird puts on here evry once in a who then tells things like then what the HELL crazie freek people madmen who are just doing wat thrye told

See, now you'll defend me.

I think it's funny that you're getting on my case for minor grammatical crap, in defense of that nutty post up there. I-ron-ic. To each his own I suppose.

lol

Cut and paste land: Select a section of desired text by highlighting it with the mouse. Click once, then drag the highlight over all the text you want to copy. Let go. Then press control-C to copy that highlighted text. Next click in the spot where you want the text to go, then press control-V, which pastes the text. Rinse and repeat.

Buenos dias, y en el futuro voy a ser mas amable a las personas quien no escriben perfectamente. No puedo hacerlo, ni otras personas. Asi es la vida. Que mala suerte que no puedo escribire esto en "Russian", pero no lo entiendo. Es un pais muy lejos de donde vivo, asi no aprendi la lengua en mi escuela. Creo que hace sentido, porque no tengo amigos quien hablen esa lengua. Hasta luego "hombre gordo".

Ryan:Got me again.... (Below threshold)
fatman:

Ryan:

Got me again. No, I don't speak what is obvio... presumably Spanish. Or any other foreign language, for that matter (foreign language classes bored me to tears in high school). So I will now fall on my sword and concede the question of skybird's native tongue to you.

However, you are mistaken in thinking that I would defend you if you wrote, spelled and punctuated like skybird; The examples that I've seen of your writing style suggest that you're capable of better. I don't think skybird is.

As for skybird's "caustic and reactionary" and "way over the top" comments about evil "librels", if you have a problem with the comments, then attack the comments. Attacking the way they were written simply gives people the impression that you're smug, arrogant, condescending or just plain lazy. And we wouldn't want that now, would we?

My thanks for the tips on cutting and pasting; I'll think of you every time I cut and paste.

As for my "nitpicking" your... (Below threshold)
fatman:

As for my "nitpicking" your punctuation and grammer, don't take it so personally. I nitpick my posts the same way, and not always successfully. For example, in my last post, third paragraph, first sentence, I probably should have used a semi-colon instead of a comma after the word "librels". And in the same paragraph, last sentence, the comma that comes after the word "now" should have come after the word "that". And I did preview before I posted.

See? None of us are perfect. It's just that I've come to expect so much more of you.

Fatman:As for s... (Below threshold)
ryan:

Fatman:

As for skybird's "caustic and reactionary" and "way over the top" comments about evil "librels", if you have a problem with the comments, then attack the comments.

Attack the comments! I've mobilized my tank brigade, and they are en route. I was thinking about flanking the southwest side of the comments, but also sending a small team to cut off the power supply lines to the east. It could just work...

Attacking the way they were written simply gives people the impression that you're smug, arrogant, condescending or just plain lazy. And we wouldn't want that now, would we?

Hey, wait a minute, you don't really want me to answer that question. It's almost as if you put it there just for effect or something. There should be a word for that.

As for my "nitpicking" your punctuation and grammer, don't take it so personally.

Why did you have to bring my GRAMMER into this? She's just a nice old lady. No cookies for you, jeez.

And I dont take your nitpicking personally; I always appreciate good grammar enforcement. Except of course when it comes to the word "ain't", which I think is perfectly acceptable, to the horror of the purists. You see, it's a perfectly logical use of the contaction.

Are you an English teacher?

See? None of us are perfect. It's just that I've come to expect so much more of you.

Thanks. Honestly I'm all for good, and fair, debate. I will stick to the proper rules of engagement I promise. You caught me being a punk, and called me out, and now I will fall on my sword, as long as it's just a literary device...not a real sword...because, well...you know.

Actually, I appreciate how you disagreed with me without name calling. 10 points for you. Not many people can do that.


Ryan:Actually, I t... (Below threshold)
fatman:

Ryan:

Actually, I think you'd be better off dropping paratroopers behind the comments and staging a simultaneous attack. Sows confusion and panic in the ranks. Now if Lee had just been able to get a regiment of cavalry behind Meade...sorry.

You're right. I don't want you to answer that. Though if I were a lawyer in a court of law, you could probably object to my asking a leading question. Or maybe my mother made me watch too many episodes of "Perry Mason" when I was a kid.

Sorry about your Grammer. Hope I didn't bruise her.

No, I'm not an English teacher. I'm a (sigh) disabled/retired semi-skilled laborer. And I have absolutely no problem with the word "ain't". I don't use it much because my father (also a d/rs-sl) banned its use in our house.

As for not engaging in name calling, I try not to do that, and I appreciate that you don't either. It doesn't win many converts to the name caller's side, either among those they disagree with or the fence sitters. If, on the other hand, they start the festivities, I can get down with the best of them (see "Joser, rhymes with Loser").

In closing, I must say it's been both interesting and challenging debating you. And enjoyable. Perhaps we can do it again sometime. Hopefully without me dragging us so far off topic.

fatman:In closi... (Below threshold)
ryan:

fatman:

In closing, I must say it's been both interesting and challenging debating you. And enjoyable. Perhaps we can do it again sometime.

Cheers to that.




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