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Make room for daddy -- he's packing heat!

I'm not a father, but I can understand how some men can be protective of their daughters. Especially of teenage daughters. Even more so of teenage twin daughters. And when those twin seventeen-year-olds call from a drunken frat party an hour away, a father could be driven almost frantic.

It's understandable, then, that such a father would be considerably upset when he arrived to pick up his girls. And that he'd be a bit fierce when he's surrounded by drunken fratboys who don't want to see the girls leave just yet.

But does that necessarily justify pulling a gun on the fratboys?

I guess I'm influenced by seeing my best friend raising his own daughter (she's 8 now), and perhaps a smidgen prejudiced by my own encounters with drunken fratboys in college (I was a proud member of Gamma Delta Iota, the un-fraternity for us God Damned Independents), but I gotta hope that Mr. Lohnes gets off easy.


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Comments (31)

Other than democratic congr... (Below threshold)
Don:

Other than democratic congressmen, there is no other identifiable group that can scoff at rules and laws and walk away scot-free or with a slap on the wrist than fraternities.

If he has a legal defense f... (Below threshold)

If he has a legal defense fund, I'll toss something in there.

I can't blame him for packi... (Below threshold)

I can't blame him for packing heat. Twins? That's every college guy's dream.

"But does that necessarily ... (Below threshold)

"But does that necessarily justify pulling a gun on the fratboys? "

Depends. were drunken frat boys threatening him and his daughter with bodily harm?

I'm in on the defense fund ... (Below threshold)

I'm in on the defense fund - sounds like the frat boy's were lucky not to end up "holding a few rounds".

This dad should take his daughters out to the range - can be a great bonding activity, and everyone should be prepared to take advantage of their second amendment rights.

Drunken frat boys can be th... (Below threshold)
john jay:

Drunken frat boys can be thugs. In the abstract, being surrounded by a bunch of drunken, aggressive frat boys could definitely be construed as a life-threatening situation, and legitimize the showing of a gun as a form of self defense. But, the guy obviously did this the wrong way, and is going to get in a lot of trouble for it.

From the sound of it, the guy had his daughters safe already, but was still moving around the party, looking for the owner/host. If his daughters were safe, he can't claim to have been protecting his kids. He was obviously, understandably angry and was looking to make someone hurt right then, either to beat them or to let them know that their life was going to be ruined. I can understand, and sympathize, but he's got no protection if his daughters were out of the party. He was trespassing, and determining blame for who got his daughters drunk is the job of the police. I think they're going to throw the book at him.

Being the mother of almost ... (Below threshold)
Just Me:

Being the mother of almost teen daughters, I admit I am confused as to how the twin daughters ended up at a drunken frat party in the first place.

17 year olds do not need to be at frat parties, or hanging out with college students for that matter.

God, ya gotta love PD's who... (Below threshold)

God, ya gotta love PD's who love to toss every charge at the highest level they can. Notice not one word from the DA, who is THE person responsible on exactly what charges (if any) will be filed.

And just what measures did the PD take to shut down the party where alcohol was being served to underage kids?

This is really a no-win for the DA and I will be surprised if s/he gets anywhere near filing any sort of charges on the dad.

If s/he does, count me in on the defense fund, too.

John JayIf this wa... (Below threshold)

John Jay

If this was an open party and the owner/host did not demand dad leave, then trespassing doesn't come into it.

I'm struck by the glaring ommission of what the PD did about the obviously illegal party.

john jay - Your in... (Below threshold)

john jay -

Your inferences go WAY beyond the available information, and so your conclusions are unjustified.

It would not be unreasonable for the father to want to identify who was responsible for criminal behavior involving his daughters.

What he did, and what level of judgement he used, cannot be determined from the report - there are conflicting stories.

If I stipulate that everything you assumne and infer is true, that would put the father somewhat in the wrong - it would also make you somewhat psychic...

Having a teenage daughter, ... (Below threshold)

Having a teenage daughter, and having experienced drunk frat parties, I totally understand why he showed them the gun. More power to him.

Good thing for the frat boy... (Below threshold)
BorgQueen:

Good thing for the frat boys it was the dad.

Don't mess with Mama Bear.

It's a PC world. The focus ... (Below threshold)
Eneils Bailey:

It's a PC world. The focus of attention is on the gun. The frat boys could have had his underage twin daughters in the back room stuffing them like a pork sausage, and the focus would still be on the total right-wing conservative self-righteous looney who dared protect them with a GUN.

As a former drunken fratboy... (Below threshold)

As a former drunken fratboy (now drunken frat alumni), let's step back a moment. First of all, this is college. From the age of 18, many students are regularly drinking. It's highly unlikely that any of the fraternity members knew these were 17-year-old high schoolers, nor that they weren't even students at UNH. You can certainly hold the position that hosting a party serving alcohol to people under 21 is completely wrong, but at least admit that it happens all the time, in colleges all across the country, whether it's in a fraternity or a private house. And further, you need to realize that at this sort of a party, the fraternity is not asking for their driver's license or school ID, so they wouldn't know the girls' age or that they were in high school unless the girls volunteered the information.

That being said, there's not anywhere near enough information to make a judgement of this situation. I agree that the reading I get of the story is that the father already had his daughters accounted for (hell, they called him for a ride home). There are no allegations here that beyond serving the girls alcohol, that any other liberties were taken. Regarding the threat of violence, even drunken fratboys don't go off and start assaulting 40-year old men without serious provocation. I think that unless he was seriously pushing these guys around, the situation wouldn't have escalated to where he would needed to have pulled a gun.

"But does that necessarily ... (Below threshold)

"But does that necessarily justify pulling a gun on the fratboys? "

Mini-rant

Minor Curmudeonly mode: on

Let's see...

Young males (barely "human"--if that)...

Reason (if any) dimmed by alchohol and awash with testosterone and the scent of nubile young females
...

Old bull wants to remove nubile young females from territory... and perhaps even close down their happy hunting grounds...

Yep. This is just the sort of situation that a (LARGE BORE) handgun (in the hands of one willing to use it) is designed for.

The disingenus "everybody drinks... they couldn't be expected to know about underage drinkers..." B.S. is just that: B.S. Any "adult"--ANYONE "of age"--at that party who made alchohol available to an underage drinker can be held criminally liable in New Hampshire. Wittingly or not. It's the responsibility of adults to determine who they are serving. Hence the term "responsible adult."

So, surrounded by threatening, known /criminals/ (serving alchohol to minors is a criminal offense in NH) evidencing hostility, dad did right. (Is the "threatening" part an assumption? Yes and no. Anyone with experience of drunk frat boys and the brains of a gnat KNOWS they were threatening.) Unfortunately, had he been touched by one of these moronic animals and done a wee tad "righter" by putting every one he had a load available for DOWN, he'd have been in deeper trouble.

In a civilized society, each and every one of these animals would be in a chain gang working off their debt to society busting rocks until their testosterone levels were depleted permanently and their livers were too old to take much alchohol.

A civilized society wouldn't put up with these cretins.

Minor Curmudgeonly mode: off

(Now, aren't you glad I'm feeling sweet and generous today? heh)

Could you imagine the fathe... (Below threshold)
yetanotherjohn:

Could you imagine the father going to the party without packing? One thing I do question is why he didn't call the local cops. It would have made sense to call the police, report the underage drinking, his daughter's call for rescue and request the police locate/protect his daughters until he can get there in about an hour. We don't know the details, but I suspect the court case would be looking a wee bit different if he had called and the police hadn't followed through.
Maybe its a yankee thing, but in Texas, I couldn't imagine charges being filed (I take that back, ronnie earle might file in the people's republic of Austin).
A couple of Texas firearm stories. One was a burglar broke into an elderly (over 80) woman's home. She pulled a gun and fired shots at him (apparently the dear's eyesight was not very good). She followed him outside and continued to pop caps at him as he ran away. Local DA declined to press charges (though you could make a good case for reckless endangerment given her lack of gun control).
Another case involved a hunter. While sitting in a deer stand waiting for a deer to wander into his sights, he saw a Texas DPS (state trooper) pull a car over. The driver of the car shot the trooper. The hunter sighted his scope on the driver and shot the driver before he could pull away. Not only was the hunter not charged, but the DPS actually gave him a medal at a dinner in his honor. The driver was also not charged, but I think the state picked up his funeral expenses.

I have no problem with dad ... (Below threshold)

I have no problem with dad having displayed his weapon if he was "surrounded" and wanted to get the frat boys to "back off." But I agree with yetanotherjohn -- expecting that he was heading into a frathouse party to retrieve his daughters who called for a ride, he could have asked for local police escort and achieve two goals -- avoiding confrontation, and guaranteeing that the girls would not have ever been welcome at a UNH frat party ever again. Heh heh.

[Spoken by a man with a 16 year old, very attractive young lady who attends a boarding school and dates a senior.]

It's a PC world. The foc... (Below threshold)

It's a PC world. The focus of attention is on the gun. The frat boys could have had his underage twin daughters in the back room stuffing them like a pork sausage, and the focus would still be on the total right-wing conservative self-righteous looney who dared protect them with a GUN.

The truth of that statement is simply outstanding.

I agree that there's just n... (Below threshold)

I agree that there's just not enough information for us to make a judgment as to whether the father was justified in brandishing his weapon. That said, why didn't he raise his daughters to have better judgment than to go out drinking at a frat party? That's the real problem. The young ladies should have the good sense to know that while it is certainly flattering to be the center of attention of a group of older boys, nevertheless the combination of alcohol plus the high levels of testosterone means that are in a situation that could get ugly for them very quickly.

That they either didn't know this or chose not to take it seriously reflects poorly on the father, I think.

OregonMuse,We both a... (Below threshold)
yetanotherjohn:

OregonMuse,
We both agree that we don't have enough information, but I would cut the guy some slack on how he raised his daughters. We aren't sure how they ended up at the party. Did they go shopping with a friend who had the bad judgement to accept an offer to the party, then refuse to drive them home? We just don't know. What he absolutely did right was have daughter's who could recognize a less than ideal situation and feel comfortable enough to call their dad to come help them out of a jam. Even if it was their bad judgement that got them into the situation, they showed good judgement in calling their dad. Just think about how many wouldn't have made that call.

To do list:Got to ... (Below threshold)

To do list:

Got to buy a gun.

Even if it was their bad... (Below threshold)

Even if it was their bad judgement that got them into the situation, they showed good judgement in calling their dad.

True enough.

The only perception that ma... (Below threshold)

The only perception that matters -- in a jurisdiction with laws that make sense, which this one may not be -- is that of, in this case, the father. If any reasonable person in his place would have felt he or his daughters were being threatened, he had every right to do what he did.

If the daughters wanted to leave, the fratboys had no business arguing about it. It also doesn't matter whether they knew the girls were underage -- anyone serving alcohol has a legal responsibility, like it or not, to make sure the people they're serving are old enough to have the legal right to drink. Many a liquor license has been revoked in the face of the "I didn't know" defense.

For that matter, "I didn't know she was underage" doesn't work as a defense for pretty much anything as far as the law is concerned.

Yah really Muse -- teenage ... (Below threshold)

Yah really Muse -- teenage kids make poor decisions, it's an axiom of life! Don't be kicking dad for the fact that they skipped for a party -- they did the right thing in the end (and if they were actually sober when he took them away, then you KNOW he's done a purdy good job).

Teenagers learn how to make decisions for themselves when they are put in the position to have to make them, and you hope they feel enough of a degree of trust from you that they will choose correctly. The greater the degree of control and the less trust, the more likely they are to rebel and deceive.

He's been charged with a mi... (Below threshold)

He's been charged with a misdemeanor: carrying a firearm without a permit. Under the circumstances, he'll likely get probation. As a father of a near-teenage girl, that's a price I'd pay to insure her safety.

"I'm not a father, but I ca... (Below threshold)
jh:

"I'm not a father, but I can understand how some men can be protective of their daughters."

And your pro abortion.

Good for you.

I am going to say upfront t... (Below threshold)
father of an 8year old , uncle of twins:

I am going to say upfront that Jtea compliments me on my raising my daughter as his influence. 2nd. My next reaction is to think.. that as a father I would risk jail to save her . 3rd ok when you add a weapon to a drunk group of postering drunk males in college with a testosterone rush, you are essentially signing a verbal contract to say " I am willing to make this ugly, I am a father on the edge" and you have to consider that the daughters will say "DAD

Heard the administration of... (Below threshold)
Eneils Bailey:

Heard the administration of the University held an emergency meeting over the weekend to send in counselors for the frat boys. Can you imagine the trauma of actully seeing a GUN. The administration has also offered to contract with the producers of "Girls Gone Wild" to help with all frat parties.

Counselors for the frat boy... (Below threshold)

Counselors for the frat boys - how progressive of them. Wouldn't want them feeling bad about themselves and their lack of control over their hormones or their inability to grasp the concept of "common sense". By all means, let's perpetuate the "boys will be boys" idea.

I suspect the counselors ar... (Below threshold)
yetanotherjohn:

I suspect the counselors are more to bolster the frats sagging egos as a couple of nubile twins found their party so lame they called their dad to get them out of there. Think about it. Would any self respecting woman on campus want to be known to be such a skank that the only date she could get was a date with a loser from this fraternity. I forsee years of counseling bein required.

I'm 21 and I have been to U... (Below threshold)
rounder:

I'm 21 and I have been to UNH many times to party. Sometimes I end up in frathouses myself. Sorry to say but frat guys, especially at UNH, are dirty animals. Friends of mine have gotten date raped partying at frats and there's a lot of pressure involved for girls to get sexual. One time, 10 frat boys teamed up and threatened a friend of mine because he was talking to a girl that "belonged" to them. In short, frats are a bunch of beer drinking white thugs who take advantage of the girls unfortunate enough to be in their house.

As for the arguement about why didn't the father call local police... after he found his daughters, he wanted to see who was hosting the party so he could find out why his UNDERAGE daughters were drinking. At that point they surrounded him and he pulled the gun. It's not like he was searching for the kids with a gun in his hand.




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