The Vietnam vet behind the comments about me is the one and only delusional Don C. Hall who has made a career out of attacking VN vets. Mr. Hall has been booted as an associate member of the Special Forces Assn. and is persona non grata in the 75th Ranger Assn. I'd be happy to share many of his hate filled, threatening, vindictive emails with anyone who would care to pursue this thread. There are dozens of witnesses to the actions I was involved in during the VN war. They would be more than happy to talk to you. Ask Mr. Hall if he can produce even one eyewitness who will back him up. Anyone can accuse others and distort truth, Hall is one of the best. Feel free to contact the 101st LRRP/Ranger web site at www.lcompanyranger.com and ask any of the men who served with me if my statements are false, then ask them about Don Hall and his wife, Annette. You can do the same with the 75th Ranger Association and the Special Forces Association. Mr. Hall has had the floor long enough. It's time he atones for his sins against his brother vets.

HOW ABOUT THE TRUTH FOR A CHANGE? JUST DENYING WHAT DON HALL & ANNETTE WIFE CLAIM ISN'T ENOUGH. WITH THIS MR. LINDERER. IF YOUR VERSION IS DIFFERENT FROM THE OFFICAL RECORD, WHY DOES IT DIFFER? OFFICAL RECORDS, THAT CAN BE VERIFIED ARE A LOT MORE IMPRESSIVE. RIGHT NOW YOU ARE SOUNDING LIKE JOHN KERRY IN CAMBODIA. I KNOW A LITTLE MORE THAN MOST ABOUT DON HALL'S DOCUMENTATION. HOW ABOUT SUBMITTING TO THE SAME DISCLOSURE HE HAS ALREADY?

Hello, My name is Karen and I would just like to say I am sickened at this outrage of who is heading up the Committee for the Vietnam Veterans homecoming.The Vterans should be running Mr. Liderer, out on a rail. I lost my Brother in Vietnam, and I am so tired of wannabes, taking Credit, for things that never happened, only in their sick, warped minds. I thought about atteneding the Homecomong, but with a Disgrace like this, it would do my brothers Death a disservice, I will pass. I want my brother to be remebered as an honorable soldier, who gave his life for all of us, Yes, even you , Mr. Liderer, so think about him and the thousands of others who gave their lives so you can, be a FAKE! I am truly ashamed of you!

I'm very impressed with all of you. You credit Mr. Hall with posting "official" records because he "says" they're "official" records. How perceptive of you! Did you see the official records or the email that Mr. Hall says are the official records. Why don't you ask Mr. Hall to furnish the after-action reports of the action he claims didn't happen. Why don't you ask him to furnish the citations which were issued to the four men who died that day in Nov. 1968 or the seven who were wounded. Two Distinguished Service Crosses and six Silver Stars, along with 11 Purple Hearts to a 12-man long range patrol team doesn't ring true with Mr. Hall's version of the story, does it. I offered you a web site to check out which has "official" US Army photos showing myself and three other member of the team lying in hospital beds the day after the aciton with Silver Stars and Purple Hearts pinned on our chests by Gen. Melvin Zais. Maybe you should ask Mr. Hall about the phony story he ran in Behind the Lines magazine in 1996 that caused an uproar among the Special Forces vets of B-36 who sent after-action reports to me discrediting Hall's story as pure, unadulterated fiction. You want to know why Hall is trying to crucify me? I was the Executive Editor of that magazine who allowed the SF guys to publish a letter discrediting Hall. It's called revenge. Lady, there are a lot more people who would like to run Mr. and Mrs. Hall out of town on a rail than would like to run me. Why don't you ask Mr. and Mrs. Hall why they aren't attending the Homecoming event in Branson? I'll not further dignify this thread with a response from me. My records are public information. Hall has my 201 file, have him send it to you, along with my citations. If you'd like to talk to any of the dozens of valorous soldiers that I served with I'd be happy to put you in touch with them---or you can ask Hall for their email addresses. I know he has them because he and his wife have attacked most of them. I'd even be happy to give you the email addresses to a number of men who served with Mr. Hall in Vietnam. You may be shocked at their opinion of this self-appointed, muckraker who has such great difficulty distinguishing fact from fiction. Next time you publish something from the likes of Hall, check out you sources. It reflects on the credibility of your thread.
Gary Linderer

Don't shoot the messenger; investigate the message. A thousand people telling a lie doesn't make it the truth.

Let's get down to the nitty gritty, Mr. Linderer. You did NOT send Don Hall a copy of your 201 file, which is your complete military record. You wouldn't even send him your one-page DD214! Show the world a legal copy of your DD214. Sign a Standard Form 180 so your full military record (your 201 file) can be released from the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis. Doing that will put the issue about your military record to rest, once and for all. People want to see the official record, not photos of you with "impact awards."

After-action reports are written by a unit as a result of the debriefings of the people involved in the mission, after the fact. If something really bad happened during a mission that would be hard to explain to the American people, especially in a time when a war is being highly protested, and which occurred eight months after the infamous My Lai incident, do you think there might be some incentive to be less than honest about the mission and turn it into something it wasn't, in order to account for all the deaths and injuries to the team that occurred when a reinforced enemy squad of VC attacked your team on the LZ when you were being extracted? Didn't most, if not all of the deaths and injuries occur because of the 64 rounds of 155 artillery rounds that your team leader called in, but in his panic, called in too close to the team?

On the other hand, DA1594's are contemporaneous records that document radio transmissions as they occur, and which were kept on a 101st divisional, not unit, basis. You didn't even know those records existed, Mr. Linderer, at the time you wrote your books, nor did your fellow authors from your unit. You thought you were safe as long as everyone continued to stick with their stories. After all, you had your pictures and your unit's after-action reports to back you up.

If General Zais is still alive (Don tried to get him to answer some questions a few years ago, but he refused to cooperate. When Don tried to contact him again, the phone number had been disconnected), would he testify under oath that the 101st Divisional DA1594's are incorrect, and that you and your team actually did fight off hundreds of NVA soldiers as you claimed, and that he, or some other qualified officer, filled out the paperwork finalizing those "impact" awards he pinned on your chest? Will he say that it's customary for a soldier to be awarded two Silver Stars and two Purple Hearts (one for the wound to each leg) for the same day's action?

Will Gen. Zais say he approves of whoever it was in your unit who planted the toe popper by Captain Shepard's tent, upon which he stepped and was seriously injured in an attempt on his life, all based on rumors that he was a bad officer, who supposedly had gotten people killed? Capt. Shepard had been in your unit only one week! How could any one of you KNOW this? And even if it were true, does that justify attempted murder?

Would Gen. Zais approve of the refusal of you and the men in your unit to cooperate with the CID investigation of the incident? The excerpts from your own books posted here give a good indication of the nature of the men corroborating your story. Is it true, as you wrote, that "the CID’s comments after the interviews were somewhat interesting. He said that they concluded that at least forty percent of the men in the company were psychotic. Another forty percent suffered from delusions of grandeur. The reminder were merely criminally insane.”

We currently have the 101st Airborne Division's DA1594's for the entire month of November 1968. It shows that the vast majority of the units in the 101st consisted of outstanding soldiers doing their jobs. There are some exceptions. For example, during November 1968, the DA1594's report that the 101st was tracking down 30 VC in the Camp Eagle vicinity who had been terrorizing local villages and demanding rice from them. On 19 November 1968, three village chiefs came to G2 of the 101st and told them the VC were demanding rice and asked for help. Your unit was tasked with ambushing those 30 VC. Your team and another 12-man "heavy" team from your unit was sent out on 19 November 1968 to ambush those 30 VC. According to your own books, you and your team allowed those VC to pass by your team unmolested that night. On the afternoon of 20 November 1968, a hapless group of 8 or 9 rice porters from the aforementioned villages, most of whom were young females, had the misfortune to walk past your team's ambush site. Your team ambushed them instead. Everything you wrote in your books for November 1968 is refuted by the DA1594 records.

Gen. Zais, please come forward and tell us about 20 November 1968.

Gary said: I'd be happy to share many of his hate filled, threatening, vindictive emails with anyone who would care to pursue this thread. There are dozens of witnesses to the actions I was involved in during the VN war. They would be more than happy to talk to you.

So glad you offered, Gary. We'll take you up on it. Could you get in touch with us please? I know you're busy, so are we. Hopefully it won't take long.

We've got an overload of info from the other side, that we're sorting through. We've GOT to contact you to get the whole story. So it's fantastic that you've offered.

My email is whatheidisays@yahoo.com. We write at Euphoric Reality and HE!D! says...

Heidi

The Halls are not worth the time it is taking to type this. They are just jealous peices of shit.
Nuff said
I 2 Served
Roger Anderson

It appears that the Halls certainly have a vindictive side to them, the way I read this. To prove these points to all concerned, then everything from the military records center should be posted for all to see so an educated citizenry can make up their own collective minds. The truth should be made available! Why put it off? The score as far as I am concerned (thus far) is Linderer 1, Halls 0. Then again, I am an investigator and I have not reached a firm conclustion to this story yet. There are always 3 sides to any story, side one, side two and finally the truth. Let's get to the teeth of the matter (and to the truth)....

No hitting below the belt!

I have never met either Linderer nor Hall. I have read works by both. I have no documentation to prove which one may be right or which one may be wrong or whether both are right or both wrong. I have no claim to fame. I have accomplished what is described as "typical Ranger missions" by going deep into enemy territory for days at a time far beyond friendly fire support. In reading Hall's "I Served", I found many instances he portrayed to parrellel several of mine. I can say the same for the articles by Linderer. I truely am deeply concerned that this issue between two fellow soldiers has been drug along way too long. I have been caught in the middle, much to my chagrin, through no fault of mine. I too ask that the two of them mutally agree to meet, face to face, before some recognized, formal tribunal. There, each would present all the credible evidence and official documentation that is obtainable and make their case. Then, the facts will speak for themselves. Those of the tribunal would not be obligated to render any final judgments but to serve only to maintain order and to establish a limited amount of rules that would enhance due process for both parties. Above all, let this issue die once each side has presented its case. In reading what little I have about this matter, words from my father ring clear, "When in an arguement with a fool, ensure he is not likewise!" I do not accuse either of being a fool, but this does appear to be foolish to me. Official records are not that hard to come by and to publish. Please let us see, in one place at the same time, all of them from both parties and all the sworn statements that pertain to this matter! Until then, I have no way to make an informed decision.

We just thought it was bad when we came home and were spat upon and accused of being baby-killers as we made our way to the airport terminals, wiping away the assorted debris of those like brother JK and HJ should have been smeared with, after the stunts they pulled in helping the North claim the win of a war we never lost.

Up until the announcement of our intended pullout almost all vets thought we were winning. We were. Our liberal media and those who protested the war saw to it that we went down in shame, a lie, but printed and broadcast for all the world to see and hear. You have to hand it to those with so much imagination, people like Cronkite that could make mountains out of mole hills, turn good things into atrocities and still get a good night's sleep because it was their agenda, making news but not sense.

As a member of the 199th Light Infantry Brigade in 69-70, as a grunt in a rifle platoon, lessons learned from the F/51st LRPS were invaluable in saving many lives in the brigade. They were attached to our brigade, lock, stock and barrel. After all, one of their teams sounded the alarm in the early morning hours of Tet 68 that resulted in the defeat of the invading forces all around the Long Binh, Bien Hoa and Saigon areas. Their actions saved thousands of American lives.

No, Hall didn't make the call, since he was in Camp Lindsey-Lattin recouping from his last mission when he heard the radio transmission at TOC from Vincent, warning of the impending danger of the massive invasion. All units scrambled and Hall's team met up with elements of A/4/12/199th that first morning around daylight and witnessed the explosion of the ammo dump that the NVA had blown. One of my best friends was the NCOIC with that element of Alpha company and remembers it very well.

I've read the DA-1594's (daily radio logs and officers' journals), have several of my own and have used them in the past to prove claims for others who have needed help with their VA appeals. All are marked ''Declassified in
1987 from the National Archives'', twelve years after the total withdrawal from South Vietnam.

Men like Linderer never imagined that an age of computers, the Freedom of Information Act and honesty would ever catch up with him and his merry men. So many books written and so many lies couldn't be erased at that point, but somehow this phony Linderer is representing all of us in a few days for a national event. It's mind-blowing what the bucks will do for some.

What's so tough about both of these men releasing their personnel records for all to see? Even the terror of the swift boats has released his Harvard records, those that supposedly were far superior to those of the President.
Oops, no ''V'' on those either. Just like the Silver Star there's not a ''V'' and never was, not for valor or victory, just a lie. As someone said earlier, ''A lie told a million times does not make a truth'' no matter how many waste their money on the fictional books that are sold by Random House as nonfictional.

You can bet your ''ham and mofos'' that I won't be attending the shindig in Branson in about three days. That goes for all who know the truth about Linderer and his merry bunch of liars and cheats. They have threatened me before with bodily harm, computer viruses and you name it but I'll never shut up till they are shown as the fouls they are. I simply give them my address and tell them to bring it on, because I'll never stand up for lies, documented bold faced lies. I fought against better men than them while I was in Delta company, 4th and 12th, long after their sorry asses had gone home to make heroes out of themselves.

Excuse me, but how many men with a clerk's MOS have ever claimed all those awards? Not a lot of rocket science is needed to see the BS, claims that have never matched the regulations and the criteria for those awards. Two like awards have never been recognized for one day's actions. But I could be wrong since I didn't serve with those bad boys of the F/58th of the 101st Lurps. No wonder the buzzard puked.

Ricky W. Jones D/4/12/199th LIB
11Bravo WIA 12Jan70 in Long Khanh Province Read a true story at: http://mavsearch.net/fs0405.html and it's not associated with anyone in the Linderer bunch and never will be. RJ

To anyone who knows how to get in touch with Linderer:

A fully fleshed out, document-heavy article is scheduled to post ON A MILBLOG on June 20th. Linderer has not responded. The shit will hit the fan! I have to get in touch with him as soon as possible.

I have done more reading in reference to all the claims and counterclaims that I am aware of in reference to Don Hall's claims. I still ask that all this be put to a close but knowing humans as little as I do, I know it never will. So far, I am convinced that Don Hall is a man of high integrity who is honest and that, maybe, to fault. His documentation leaves little to no room for doubt about what he claims. There is a paucity of credible documents/evidence from the opposing side. Yes, there may be sworn statements from some who may have good reason to mislead and to make false statements. I have yet to read any official documents written by "disinterested" persons that nullify Hall's claims. I am obligated to state that to my best understanding, "Hall is hitting the mark when it comes to presenting facts." Until additional credible evidence is presented to me, I must say that Hall is exposing some very troubling acts. Is he (Hall) a rabble rouser who causes problems? Not to me. I see him as a person who has percieved a wrong and his character does not allow him to rest until he has made his point about that wrong. I applaud him for his integrity and his ability to stand up for what he sees and knows. From my point of view, those who oppose him have a long way to go to make me understand that they are correct and Hall is wrong. One of their first moves needs to prove that Hall's documentation is faulty and wrong. Until then, they will find me one who will not tolerate very well their blatting anf blaring that Don Hall is a bad person. One may not like Don's choice of words nor the manner they are presented. We all in America have that right to dislike whatever we choose. To claim more than disliking Hall's manners, one better have credible evidence or they, to me, are prejudicing their own case. In fact, some already have. One may not like the message nor the messenger. That fails to make the truth a lie. I stand on the side of truth that is corroborated by credible evidence. For reasons stated, I stand behind Hall. A soldier, Bill Spies

Don Hall makes three accusations against Gary Linderer.
1. That a battle on 20 Nov 68 described in Linderers books is a sham.
I was in a helicopter over the action that day. It was a real battle. The names of the 101st LRRPS killed that day are on the Vietnam memorial. The wounded, many of them severely wounded, are still alive. I'm just one of many witnesses still alive.
2. That Linderer did not receive a Silver Star and Purple Heart for his actions on 20 Nov 68.
I talked that week, to men I trust, who witnessed the commanding general of the 101st present the awards to Linderer. I also saw the official army photograph of the presentation. If army bureacrats
screwed up and issued two sets of orders, that's their mistake not Linderer's.
3. That Linderer covered up a "fragging" of his LRRP commanding officer.
I reported into F-58th LRRPS right after that "incident" when the CID(Crimminal Investigation Division) was still conducting it's
investigation. It was never proved that it was a "fragging". I defy Mr Hall to prove otherwise.
The CO's tent was off by itself, had a distinctive shape and was located close to the outer perimeter of Camp Eagle, the 101st base camp. The head of the division reconaissance unit would have made an attractive target for an enemy that did penetrate our defences and kill our personnel.
A few of the youngsters in our company did spread a rumour that the CO was fragged in order to create an image for themselves. Foolish in hindsight but not criminal. I would be interested to know if Cpt Shepard ever received a Purple Heart for his wounds. The only official action the US Army took was to order a heavy duty inner perimeter placed around the LRRP compound and order that no local civilian personnel were to be employed inside that wire. As I remember it the CID investigation revealed that the only personnel seen near the CO's tent the day of the attack were Vietnamese civilian employees who may have placed the explosive.

As far as I know the accuser Don Hall served honourably in Vietnam with the 173d Airborne and with a LRRP company. I take him at his word.

His accusations against Linderer are not motivated by a desire to expose a real scandal but a smear based on twisted facts. Mr Hall has a persanal history with Linderer after Vietnam that
created a personnal grudge against Linderer. That is the basis of Hall's attacks on Linderer.

I served with Don Hall in F company Lrp 51 st and I know he is real. I also served with three other Ranger companies D lrp 151 , D Ranger 75 inf. and G Ranger 75 th inf. every unit I served with was different ,and they were all good. I hope Don and Gary can just walk away from this useless battle.I only have respect for anyone who takes the time to write a book about Vietnam.

UPDATE to this controversy:

General Zais passed away long ago, and therefore cannot answer Annette's calls for clarification on events 37 years ago. However, we were asked by Don and Annette Hall to look into these events as independent third-party reseachers. We have done so.

We've spent two months objectively interviewing almost EVERYONE involved (on both sides of the issue), consulting independent subject matter experts, and analyzing documentation. We've discovered facts previously undisclosed, and the truth buried under conjecture, speculation, and 'assumptions'. This is not a pretty story, nor an easy one, but it's worth telling.

Our first two chapters of a seven-part series, dealing with the events in question in Vietnam through to the controversy today, have been published at Euphoric Reality.

It never should've come to this, folks. One of the biggest tragedies about all of this is that men whose warrior code and shared experiences should've made them brothers, have been torn apart for nothing. Go read the true story behind Brother Against Brother.

For more reading on this matter see: http://www.f58lrp.com/

Now that Kit Jarrell and Heidi Thiess have apparently finished their now 10-part series, which portrays us as villains, and Gary Linderer and his band of brothers as selfless heroes, we will be posting our rebuttal on the web next week. We will place a notice on Wizbang and on the Thiess/Jarrell site when it's ready and give a pointer to the web location.

The conduct of these two women in writing their "Brother Against Brother" series has demonstrated beyond a doubt that they are ill qualified to tell this story fairly. Our mistake was believing Thiess and Jarrell when they said they were "investigative journalists." Instead, they have clearly demonstrated that they ascribe to the Michael Moore school of blogging and employ the Dan Rather method of investigative journalism.

We have also learned a great lesson that you can’t tell a blog by its cover. We should have requested a copy of THEIR DD214’s before we began dealing with them in depth after they responded to our original email and said they wanted to investigate our allegations against Gary Linderer. Their DD214’s would have given us a better idea just how qualified these two women actually were to do a story of this magnitude and complexity. In their zeal to support Mr. Linderer and his buddies, they have deliberately misstated important facts, omitted inconvenient facts that support our allegations against him, and have engaged in extreme hyperbole and mischaracterization, the likes of which one usually sees on extremist left-wing blogs.

Our rebuttal next week will illustrate exactly why they are ill qualified to investigate anything to do with combat operations in Vietnam, and, in our opinion, anything to do with combat operations period. We will show readers that Thiess and Jarrell have been suckered in by Gary Linderer and his very vocal group of supporters, and that they have engaged in the very same sort of disinformation tactics that Linderer and his men have employed with great success over the years.

Because of their behavior, it is apparent to us that Thiess and Jarrell are of a character that causes them to feel a deep kinship with Linderer and his men, and as they got to know Linderer and his supporters more fully, they felt a deep desire to be accepted by them. It’s easier to go with the group against the two than it is to stand with the two against the group. And, if you have to distort facts or omit damning evidence in order to accomplish that, well, the ends justify the means. The irony is that these two gullible and mendacious women have helped Gary Linderer's small group of "Vietnam fabulists" embellish the 20 November 1968 story even further, even to the laughable point of contradicting what they wrote in their books.

As we’ve said over and over again, if a thousand people tell a lie, it doesn’t make it the truth. Stay tuned…

At last we have Annette Hall’s response---posted as commentary to Chapter One and again to Chapter Ten. True to Mrs. Hall’s accustomed form, it is more a personal attack than a response to anything in Brother Against Brother. But then, what else do the Halls have at this point, beyond personal attacks? After years of trumpeting the documents they claimed to have backing their contentions about the bloody events of 20 November, 1968, and the character of Gary Linderer, all of the Hall’s “documentary evidence” has been obliterated by the many documents that the Halls somehow (willfully?) overlooked, and that Kit Jarrell and Heidi Thiess managed to find. Heidi and Kit also managed to find and interview many survivors of the battle, eyewitnesses to the battle, and many others who listened to it on military radio nets as it was happening. The Halls have absolutely none of this testimony. They never have, and never will. The Halls’ various imaginary renderings of those bloody events never had much (if any) credibility. And now they have none. What other response is available to the Halls, except for their normal personal attacks? Silence, perhaps? An apology along the lines of the one they once promised Kit and Heidi if they were proven to be wrong? Well, they’ve been proven to have been gravely and maliciously wrong, but there is no apology from the Halls. And now Annette’s silence has been broken.

Annette Hall accuses Kit and Heidi of having written a series “which portrays us as villains, and Gary Linderer and his band of brothers as selfless heroes…” Annette and Don Hall are, rightfully, not even mentioned in the chapters that deal with the 20 November, 1968, battle. But once they do appear in Brother Against Brother, once they begin their vendetta against Gary Linderer and all connected with them, they most certainly do come across as villains. Annette blames Kit and Heidi for that portrayal. But almost all of the material in Brother Against Brother that deals with the Halls is either in Don’s words or Annette’s----and almost all of this reeks with misrepresentation, slander, paranoia, viciousness, and attempted character assassination. Mrs. Hall writes, reasons, and spells much better than her husband, but when it comes to jealous bile and virulence, the two of them are in a league they share with no one else I’ve ever encountered. If the Halls come across as villains, it is because the Halls showcase their own villainy in their almost every word and action. All Kit and Heidi did was print what the Halls themselves had sent out to them and other people, but that was enough to show the Halls’ true character. As for Gary Linderer and the other men---Lurps, aviators, reaction force, and even North Vietnamese soldiers---who fought in that 20 November, 1968, battle that Annette Hall and her husband have spent years trying to portray as a fake contact: if they are “heroes” it is their actions that day that made them so, not anything Kit or Heidi wrote about them these many years later. It certainly isn’t a judgement Annette Hall or her husband are qualified to make. If Gary Linderer has a “band of brothers” it is because Gary has earned the brotherhood of many. Annette Hall’s husband, poor Donald, on the other hand, has no brothers left anymore and no real friends either. Donald Hall has done much to earn his outcast status, and he deserves it deeply. But those of us who have had to deal with the Halls over the years know to give Mrs. Hall her share of credit for Donald’s sad state. Her nagging, goading, encouragement and irrepressible tendency to speak for him have surely played an instrumental part in his downfall.

Along with being the only literate writer involved, was Annette Hall also the animating spirit behind their self published book, I Served? And was it Annette who encouraged Don to submit the notorious “Vulture Flight” story from that book to Behind the Lines? For years Annette Hall has been commenting on military matters about which she knows only what her mentally jumbled husband tells her. But in her commentary she writes this of Kit and Heidi: “We should have requested a copy of THEIR DD214’s before we began dealing with them in depth after they responded to our original email and said they wanted to investigate our allegations against Gary Linderer. Their DD214’s would have given us a better idea just how qualified these two women actually were to do a story of this magnitude and complexity.”

Amazing! The blind stupid gall of this woman to write such a thing and post it on a site where every reader already knows what sort of person she is! Kit and Heidi are veterans. They do have DD214s---and they are under no obligation to show them to the Halls. But where is Annette Hall’s DD214? As far I know, she is not a veteran—except perhaps by very, very weak injection. If she is a military veteran, why doesn’t she send out as many copies of her DD214 as she did of her smear sheet against Gary Linderer, so that all the thousands of people to whom she libeled Gary will be able to judge her qualifications?

In her commentary Annette writes: “it is apparent to us that Thiess and Jarrell are of a character that causes them to feel a deep kinship with Linderer and his men…” Mrs. Hall is not a stupid woman, at least not if her husband is setting the baseline for stupidity. Does she not realize what a fine compliment it is to write that Heidi and Kit are of a character to feel a deep kinship with Gary Linderer and men like Riley Cox, Jim Venable, Jim Bacon, Frank Souza, Mike Reiff, Art Herringhausen, Terry Clifton, Mike Reiff, Tony Tercero and the other men of the reaction force, the aviators who flew that day, and the hundreds---no, thousands---of other people, veterans and civilians alike, who consider Gary Linderer a true gentleman and a brother?

Mrs. Hall should remember that Heidi Thiess and Kit Jarrell started looking into all of this on her instigation, not Gary Linderer’s. She obviously didn’t expect them to really investigate, nor did she expect them to write as well as they do. But she should have expected at least some minimal amount of intelligence, honesty, and basic decency. Kit and Heidi have abundant reserves of all those qualities. Mrs. Hall may have some intelligence---particularly compared to her husband. But she seems to lack even a shred of honesty and decency---and doesn’t seem to have much grasp of reality, either. Because she lacks these qualities herself, she apparently didn’t expect to find them in Kit and Heidi. Mrs. Hall made a major mistake there!

Mrs. Hall and her husband can---and probably will---continue to threaten people. They can post whatever they like on their website, and the idly curious may visit their site, but no one will ever believe them again. They can claim to have unused and secret hidden information and documents they’ve been holding back, but again no one will believe them. Their credibility in all matters is gone forever. They can---and probably will---threaten to dig into peoples’ private lives for things to use against them, and perhaps they will manage to hurt someone or someone’s family. They can continue to focus their lives around that Great Satan, Gary Linderer, but their devotion will not be rewarded. They can keep snapping and snarling and clawing themselves ever deeper into the pit they have dug for themselves, but they will be alone in that pit. They will never recover whatever honor and whatever place among decent humanity they may have once had. Donald will never dare to show his face at any military reunion or veterans function where anyone is likely to recognize him, and Annette will most likely suffer the utter humiliation of remaining married to Don for the rest of her life.

Mrs. Hall can rage and slander and threaten all she wants. She and your husband have been exposed as the spiteful and poisonous clowns that they are. No one respects her, no one fears her, and except for laughs, no one will listen to her anymore.

Kenn Miller

My response to the BAB story has been posted. Go to http://www.i-served.com/GaryLinderer/GaryLinderer_BloggerGate.htm.

Don Hall

Heidi Thiess and Kit Jarrell of Euphoric Reality have deleted my comment on their blog site that directs people to the web-page location of my response to their BAB series (that comment was the same as our previous post in this thread). Instead, they infringed on our copyright and extracted the entire content of our web page and posted it on their site, omitting the URL address. They did not have our permission to do that. We do not have a comments feature active on that web page, so their readers were supposed to go to our web site, read my response there, and then make any comments about it on Euphoric Reality that they wished to make. Kit and Heidi like to control things and delete comments they don’t like and suppress evidence they don’t want the public to know about (which is what they did in their BAB story). That’s their prerogative, but they don’t have a right to interfere with their readers’ going to my response on our site by copying it from our site and posting it on theirs, minus the URL. Their goal was to make it less convenient for their readers to know where it’s located.

Copyright law allows excerpting from content, but not full-out plagiarism. On 8/16/05, we sent them an e-mail notice (followed up in a letter mailed to them) demanding that they stop the infringement and remove our copyright-protected content from their site.

Wizbang readers are welcome to read my response to the Thiess/Jarrell BAB series directly on our site and post their comments here on Wizbang. Have at it. Again, this is the link: http://www.i-served.com/GaryLinderer/GaryLinderer_BloggerGate.htm

Don Hall

Contrary to what Don and Annette Hall allege above, we did not remove their comment; we simply redirected OUR readers to the full, unabridged copy of the content of their rebuttal on OUR site. We did so for one simple reason: to make it EASIER for our readers to read and comment, without having to flip and flop between websites.

Additionally, again contrary to what the Halls wrote above, we did NOT remove their precious URL. It is intact within their original comment. The Halls have become incredibly proficient at lying about the smallest, most petty details - and yet their attention to detail failed to detect that their URL is still in their comment.

Finally, we have, in writing, blanket permission from the Halls to use anything from their book, their documentary, their notes, and their website. So thank you for that.

Considering the Halls' rabid pursuit of publicity, I should think they'd be happy that their lies are posted in full view on not one - but now TWO separate online sources.

BTW, we took the above actions only after having consulted with our legal advisor, as the Halls have belatedly admonished us to do. WE had ampple opportunity to get several legal opinions, since the Halls trumpeted their intended post date on our site. The bottom line is this: the Halls posted the link on OUR site to directly offer OUR readership their rebuttal of OUR published series. We are fully within our legal rights to do as we did.

Note: to those wishing to read the absolutely scintillating commentary on the Halls'so-called "rebuttal" - which is really just a 15-page long tirade of personal character assassination, rather than a refutation of the facts, go here. We've also published Our Final Word on the entire sordid affair. And now we're done.

I have read all Gary's books

I bet you had no idea the storm you'd start, eh Kevin? ;) Sorry your blog got turned into a warzone.

After the toe-popper incident or attempted murder of the unit's new C.O. Company Commander based on rumors that these men heard he was a poor commander a CID investigation stated. These books claimed they got away with it because they all kept their mouth's shut. Hum,... Jail house mentaility, perhaps.

From Gary Linderer’s book EYES OF THE EAGLE:
Page 85, August 1, 1968 “At morning formation, the first sergeant announced that our company was on stand down until further notice. No more missions? No one figured on that happening.”

“Top” also announced that the CID’s comments after the interviews were somewhat interesting. He said that they concluded that at least forty percent of the men in the company were psychotic. Another forty percent suffered from delusions of grandeur. The reminder were merely criminally insane.”

I do not believe that this unit was made up of these types of men. I knew some of them and they were better than what this author made them out to be. The author wrotes that a third of these men were suffering from, "delusions of grandeur." How interesting. Would these delusions later in life cause Linderer to claim he had 2 Silver Stars instead of (1) one and 2 Purple Hearts instead of none.
Page 202 “Coleman told me that the NVA bodies were everywhere. Halfway up the hill, he spotted the body of an NVA officer lying on his side next to two dead nurses. The officer had a scar on his cheek and wore a pair of pearl-handled 9mm pistols. Coleman didn’t have time to stop for the pistols. He swore that we had tagged (*) Colonel Mot.”
Page # 203 “It was getting quite dark by then, and when the slicks returned, the LRPs had to hold cigarette lighters above their heads to mark the LZ. They were all finally extracted forty minutes after dark.”
“The CO reported that two of the blues had received impact Bronze Stars with Vs while an NCO in charge of the reaction force received a Silver Star. Somebody needed to be fragged over that bullshit. It was lucky for them that the impact awards didn’t have to go through proper channels.”
December 14, 1968 Page 217
“We spent the evening drinking and getting totally blown away. We raised a lot of hell, and I guess I probably overdid it with the war stories. They (Air Force personnel) must have been impressed, because most offered their sisters to me before the night was over. Audie Murphy didn’t have a thing on me. Well, how were you suppose to act around air force personnel?”

“Gary A. Linderer is the publisher of ‘Behind the Lines,’ a magazine that specializes in U.S. military special operations. In Vietnam, he earned two Silver Stars, the Bronze Star with V devise (for Valor), the Army Commendation Medal with V devise, and two Purple Hearts. His first two books were selected by the Military Book Club.”

National Personnel Records Center Military Personnel Records 9700 Page Avenue, St. Louis, Missouri 63132-5100 OFFICIAL LIST OF AWARDS The Official Military Records of GARY A. LINDERER (SSN removed) show that he is authorized the following awards and decorations for his service in the US Army:

SILVER STAR
BRONZE STAR MEDAL W/FIRST OAK LEAF CLUSTER AND "V" ARMY COMMENDATION MEDAL
W/FIRST OAK LEAF CLUSTER AIR MEDAL
GOOD CONDUCT MEDAL NATIONAL DEFENSE
SERVICE MEDAL
VIETNAM SERVICE MEDAL W/4 BRONZE SERVICE STARS
COMBAT INFANTRYMAN BADGE
REPUBLIC OF VIETNAM CAMPAIGN RIBBON W/DEVICE (1960)
REPUBLIC OF VIETNAM GALLANTRY CROSS W/PALM UNIT CITATION BADGE SHARPSHOOTER
BADGE W/RIFLE & MACHINE GUN BARS EXPERT BADGE W/AUTO RIFLE BAR
////////NOTHING FOLLOWS/////////////
R. L. HINDMAN,

Director

From Gary Linderer’s book “EYES BEHIND THE LINES.”
Page 10 - "The fact that we had killed over two hundred NVA, including the executive officer of the NVA 5th Regiment did not lesson his grief."

Page 11- "My first full day back with F Company was occupied with replacing the weapon and all the gear and equipment I had lost November 20. I had to start from scratch replacing my LBE (load-bearing equipment) and my rucksack and pack frame."

Page 14 - The Cav (2/17 Cav) really didn't have a lot of use for LRPs, and we reciprocated their feelings, especially after their reaction team's heroic actions November 20 (when they cowered on the LZ while our fellow LRPs charged to our rescue)."

FROM THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES: G-2 & G-3 Section 101st Abn. Div. Camp Eagle YD808162 20 Nov. 1968 1000H (C) G2 recd msg [message] fr [from] 1st Bde [Brigade] stating: At 2400H to 0400H vic [vicinity] An Nong Village YD918093 & An Nong 3 YD933106 in Loc Bon village, info came in from village chief to A Co that 30 VC last night came through loc above. Primary purpose was to collect money, but would eccept rice instead. They came from south and returned south.

1200H (C) G2 recd msg 2d Bde stating: At 1130 H vic YC829900 LRP TM #24 ambushed est enemy sqaud (reinf) moving E on trail at YC 829900. Appartently rice carrying detail, for only two were VC were armed. En appeared to have been heading towards hill # 512 at YC8490. Res: 9 VC KIA, 2x 45 pistols CIA. Note: 8 VC were killed outright, one was captured but was seriously wounded. This VC later died after attempt to evac him was made. No friendly cas.

1220H (C) G2 recd msg fr 2/17 stating: At 1124H vic YC8490 LRP Tm #24 amb [ambushed] 9 VC, 5 women & 4 men. LRP Tm believes VC were porters. Res: 5 female KIA BC, 4 VC male KIA BC, 2 x US 45 Cal pistols. VC were moving towards Hill 513 YC8490.

Item 17 - 1200H (C) recd msg fr 2d Bde stating: At 1130H vic YC829900 LRP Tm # 24 ambushed est enemy sqaud (reinf) moving E on trail at YC829900. Apparently was a rice carrying detail, for ony two VC were armed. En appeared to have been heading toward hill # 512 at YC8490. Res: 9 VC KIA, 2 x 24 pistols CIA. Note: 8 VC were killed outright, one was captured but was seriously wounded. This VC later died after an attempt to evac him was made. No friendly cas.

Item 18 - 1220H (C) G2 recd mes fr 2/17 Cav stating: At 11245H vic YC8490 LRP Tm # 24 amb (ambushed) 9 VC, 5 women & 4 men. LRP Tm believed VC were porters. Res: 5 VC female KIA, 4 Male KIA BC. 2 x US 45 Cal pistols. VC were moving towards Hill 513 YC8490. Neg US cas.

Item 33 - 1620H (C) G3 recd mes fr 2/17 Cav stating: 2/17 (C) reports LRRPs in RZ Brenda are in heavy contact, 9 cas. Request 1 Co RRF. 1st Bde will supply the company - A/2/502. Insertion controlled by credit 4.

Item 36 - 1645H (C) recd msg fr 2d Bde, at 1620H, vic YC839880, LRP Tm 24 made contact w/unk size force. Res: 2 US KHA, 8 WIA. A complete report will be turned in tonight.

Item 48 - 2043H (C) G3 recd msg fr 2/17 Cav, LRP medevac completed 1830H, C/ARP ext fr contact site 1920H, shuttle to Brick has not been closed.

Item 51 - 2130H (C) G2 recd msg fr 2/17, total 3 KHA, 21 WHA (8 serious, 13 minor), all cas fr LRP Co except 8 WIA fr ARP. One Kit CASON was WHA (minor) not included in 21 WHA.

SUMMARY: A LRP tm of F/58 Inf ambushed ten en [enemy] moving N on trail vic [vicinity] YC839887. The res [results] were eight enemy KIA and two wpns [weapons] capt [captured]. In subsequent encounter w/a [with a] reinforced enemy squad, the team killed on addtional en [enemy] in the same area.

This is an important part of the records that support the above. G-2 & G-3 101st Abn. Div CAMP EAGLE DATE 23 Nov. 1968 page 5 of 7. Item No 35 - 1429 hours (C) G-2 recd msg fr 2d Bde stating: At 1325H vic YC83888 D/2/501 1st plt [platoon] at 1240H fnd [found] 8 bodies: 7 x VC, 1 NVA, 4 pairs of PJ, 20 lbs of rice, 1 kettle, equipment left by LRPS: 1 x WP grenade [grenade], 1 x bottle of whole blood, LRP rations, poncho liner, 6 x US rucksacks, 1 x sewing kit and 5 xclaymore. Note: The 8 x VC were previously reported.
These DA1594 records are for: Managing Info For Battle tracking, By LTC Scott G. Wuestner.
Information management and battle tracking are keys to a tactical operation center's (TOC) success. ... Journal or logs are more than a record of radio messages. Staff officers or NCOs must be proactive in getting critical information in the messages out to the right people in a timely manner. Units currently requires staff s to maintain the outdated DA Form 1594 Staff Duty Log, dated Nov. 1962. This form is a permanent record for training operations, operational reviews and historical research.

"HISTORICAL RESEARCH."

5. The Objectives of the DA 1594 Journal files are designed to do the following:
a.