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If it wasn't for double standards, they'd have no standards at all...

It seems that every day I hear more news about Israel "threatening the fragile cease-fire" with the Palestinians. And every time, it seems it's the same story: the cease fire wasn't threatened by any action of the Palestinians, but by the Israelis reacting. Like I said before, it's a case of "it all started when he hit me back."

Here's a perfect example: a group of Jews approach the Western Wall in Jerusalem. A group of Muslims come out of the mosque above and started bombarding them with rocks. And when Israeli police entered the mosque to break up the rock-throwing mob, THAT was what is being called the "provocation."

Dennis Prager has assembled a statistical breakdown of just why he supports Israel over the Palestinians, and I agree with most of his points. I do have a few additions, and one disagreement, however:

  1. Prager cites 600,000 as the number of refugees that traveled in both directions after the founding of Israel. I've seen other sources that put the figure at 850,000.

  2. Ranking of the Temple Mount as among the holiest sites of Islam: 3
    Ranking of the Temple Mount as among the holiest sites of Judaism: 1

  3. To those who cite the Palestinian "historical" ties to the land, please answer a few questions for me:
    a) Who were some of ancient Palestine's rulers?
    b) What were some of the notable events in Palestinian history?
    c) What are the great works of Palestinian history?
    d) What was their currency?
    e) What person or group is hailed as the "founder" of Palestine?
    f) What was their political system of government?
    g) What was their economic system based on?
    h) What other nations did they have contact with?
The Israelis have answers for all those questions. That's despite the Muslims doing everything they can to eradicate any evidence of the Jewish history.


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Comments (17)

You know it isn't that I th... (Below threshold)
Just Me:

You know it isn't that I think Israel is perfect in this, and I think at times they certainly have bought some of their trouble, but the Palestinians have done nothing to even come close to showing me that they want peace.

I had my Rah Rah Palestinians phase about 10 years ago, I am way over it.

I find it amusing that Araf... (Below threshold)

I find it amusing that Arafat himself couldn't pronounce "Palestine" and "Filistin" is a more common term among the PLO Arabs.

You'd think if the region has such deep roots in history as the PLO Arabs claim, it would be called a term that is more in common with what the supposed "locals" would call it.

Isn't something like 80% of... (Below threshold)
Faith+1:

Isn't something like 80% of the supposed traditional land actually in what is now called Jordan? Why aren't they clamoring for Jordan to cough up some of that land?

I though (and still believe... (Below threshold)
J.M.:

I though (and still believe) that the Palestinians are either a majority or large minority in Jordan. In other words, they already have a state, but the MSM refuses to analyze things that way.

The Palestinians at the core do not want peace; they want A) “their” land back, and B) the eradication of the Jewish state.

After enduring centuries of banishment from the lands of King David, and enduring persecution, holocaust, and ethnic cleansing, the Jewish people have reestablished the state of Israel that was prophesized in the Bible. They are not going to give any of it up to people who still want to see them exterminated.

It would be like the United States giving up Arlington, VA to appease Al Qaeda in the hopes that they will lay down their bombs, and hold our hands as we sign Kum-ba-yah around JFK’s eternal flame.

>>I find it amusing that Ar... (Below threshold)
Marc:

>>I find it amusing that Arafat himself couldn't pronounce "Palestine" and "Filistin" is a more common term among the PLO Arabs.>>I find it amusing that Arafat himself couldn't pronounce "Palestine" and "Filistin" is a more common term among the PLO Arabs.

That's because Arabic doesn't have a "P" sound. Yet another item in the list of proofs that the Arab claim to the land is an utter farce.

>>>I find it amusing that A... (Below threshold)

>>>I find it amusing that Arafat himself couldn't
>>>pronounce "Palestine" and "Filistin" is a more
>>>common term among the PLO Arabs.
>>>I find it amusing that Arafat himself couldn't
>>>pronounce "Palestine" and "Filistin" is a more
>>>common term among the PLO Arabs.

>>That's because Arabic doesn't have a "P" sound.
>>Yet another item in the list of proofs that the Arab
>>claim to the land is an utter farce.


And, that's because we owe "Palestine" to Emperor Hadrian (that Hadrian - of the Wall) who renamed the Roman Province from Judea to Palestine after (either, I don't remember which offhand) the Bar Kotchba revolt or the Destruction of the Temple. Why Palestine? To commemorate one of Judaism's early opponents: the Phillistines. And that is why the arabic pronounciation is "Filistin" ;)

This whole argument is a li... (Below threshold)

This whole argument is a little tenditious, not to mention disingenuous...

No country in the Levant can point to "proof of reason to exist" as you state it. They were all provinces, vilyaats, sanjuks, or other political divisions of the Ottoman Empire until that empire fell and was divvied-up by Europeans.

I think the simple fact that the early Jewish immigrants--Zionist or not--were willing to negotiate with the existing governments--both local and imperial--suggest that something with a claim to political legitimacy existed there prior to WWII. If Jewish groups were willing to take out ads in Arabic newspapers in the early 1900s, it strongly suggests that those groups recognized an existing entity with legal authority.

So, Jerusalem--merely one part of that section of the Ottoman Empire--wasn't a "country" on a par with, say, Belgium... that means exactly nothing.

I'd suggest taking a look at the history of early Jewish migration to the area, pre-WWI, to get an idea of what the "facts on the ground" were.

And the "P" v. "F" nonsense? Maybe it was because ancient Hebrew and Aramaic lacked an "F" sound and it's been mispronounced since time immemoriam... and we got the mispronunciation from the Romans!

So, history begain with the... (Below threshold)

So, history begain with the Ottoman Empire? Who knew?

History didn't begin with t... (Below threshold)

History didn't begin with the Ottoman Empire. The issue of Arab and Israeli fighting over a piece of land began when Europeans disected that piece of land, promising it to two separate entities.

Ancient Hebrew has both a P... (Below threshold)
Kin:

Ancient Hebrew has both a P and a F. Arabic never had either, they have a B.
As to Jerusalem being the 3rd most holy site in Islam is also not so exact. Muhammed never set foot in Jerusalem. Someone had a dream that Mohammed tethered his flying horse on the corner of the Temple mount. No one goes on a pilgramige to Jerusalem. In the hundreds of years the Arabs ruled over Jerusalem no serious work was done on the city or its mosques. Under Jordanian control, if I recall correctly, the King of Jordan the titular head of the Waqf (the Islamic trust who oversees the holy sites) never visited. No Arab ruler ever cared about Jerusalem of the Temple Mount until the Jews took over. And don't get me started on the Dome of the Rock, which is obviously not a traditional mosque (it's not shaped like any other mosque in the world and there is historical proof that it was built atop a church that was built atop a temple to Jupiter which built atop the place of the Holy of Holies to stick it to the Jews).
70 years ago the Arabs living in Mandatory Palestine refused to be called Palestinians.

In spite of centuries of op... (Below threshold)

In spite of centuries of oppression and debilitating taxation the Jews still thrived in Palestine even before WWI. Even before America became their friend. The Arabs have tried for at least that long to beat them down and it still hasn't worked. It's an amazing testament to the resilience of Jews as a people. The Palestinians don't seem to have a problem with so many in the world donating to their cause and the money ending up in yearly payments to Suha of around 22 million. We keep hitting them in the head with the "clue bat" and they still don't get who their oppressors really are.

ah Faith, that is the whole... (Below threshold)
cancon:

ah Faith, that is the whole hypocrisy of the Arab world

yes most of the traditional lands claimed by Palestinians is now part of Jordan and at one time Jordan held one of the terrorities, West Bank as well

now Arafat was pissed off at Jordan and when he and the gang were forced to live in Jordan, they were up to the same dirty tricks as they are now, Arafat was trying to topple the Jordanian monarchy, except King Abdullah's old man wasn't going to put up with that crap.

What is so ironic is that the two largest massacres against Palestinians happened in the 1970's and were perpetrated by Jordan and Syria and historians claim, that more Palestinians were killed in these two massacres than Israel has killed since 1948 right up to present day.

So Jordan cracked down on the Pals and pushed Arafat on to Syria, where Arafat again made himself unwelcome and the next crackdown on the Pals occurred. I can't remember, when was the PLO exiled to Tunisia?

King Hussein eventually gave back control of the West Bank, I cannot recall which year.

And yet we rarely ever hear about how Jordan stole the Palestinian land and massacred Palestinians. Where are the UN resolutions wrapping Jordan and Syria on the knuckles for these atrocities, these two massacres.

But I've come to understand it is OK when Arabs kill each other in the thousands, even millions but if one Jew kills one Arab, even in self defence, well that's enough to set off a war....... or heaven forbid, one infidel allegedly flushes a Koran down a tiolet

This is a wonderfully balan... (Below threshold)
IMO:

This is a wonderfully balanced debate. And that questionaire above is clearly comprehensive. I think the issues are very murky, that both sides have strong examples of why the other is to blame. As for the beginning of the post, it ignores the issue of who is in power. The Israelis have all the power. It is like an NFL football team going up against a pee-wee league team. I have a younger brother, and when we were little, if he hit me and I pummeled him back, guess who got in more trouble? -- two things going on 1) greater strength and 2) held to a higher standard of responsibility. Now your example is framed nicely for your conclusion. Why were the Palestinians throwing rocks in the first place? Instead of beginning your example where you did, let's start at the police raiding the mosque. Not fair right, because it was in reaction to an action by the other side. As to question 3 - stupid. What is the claim we have to American lands - certainly not historical.

If you want some real fun a... (Below threshold)
cancon:

If you want some real fun and really want to piss off some Palestinians, look up the writings of Sheikh Palazzi.

Sheikh Palazzi is a rare Muslim cleric in that he not only doesn't hate Jews he is working with Jews to establish peace in the Middle East.

Here is his own theory and interpretation of the Koran - he believes that Allah indeed gave the Jews the Promised Land via Moses and that Israel is in fact the fulfilment of Koran Prophecy.

He goes on further to say that in fact all the attempts by the Palestinians to destroy Israel is
BLASPHEMY and explains why the Palestinians are living in such misery - they are being punished by Allah.

Lastly he says in another article that it is also clear from history and even the Koran that Jerusalem is the most holy place of the Jews and whilst it is also sacred for Muslims, since they have Mecca and Medina, they should allow the Jews their primary holy site so long as the Jews allow both Christians and Muslims access to the holy sites there - I don't think the Israelis would have a problem at all.

And since the Muslims don't even allow Christians and Jews access to Mecca, that would make them better than the Muslims.

For after all the Muslims claim that the Kabaa Stone has something to do with Abraham. Abraham is a prophet in both Christian and Jewish tradition so barring Christians and Jews is not so kosher eh?

oh and since it is OK with ... (Below threshold)
cancon:

oh and since it is OK with the rest of the Arab world and the MSM when Arabs torture and kill each other- see the lovefest with Saddam Hussein - the idea being floated around to return the West Bank to Jordan and the Gaza Strip to Egypt as one of Israel's potential solutions has an immense appeal.....because Egypt and Jordan can and will do what the Israelis are restraining themselves from doing and no one will care, not even the UN.

So they were taking a guide... (Below threshold)
Wendigo:

So they were taking a guided tour of a mosque compound on the anniversary of the taking of East Jerusalem.

Says Yahoo:
Since Israel's capture of east Jerusalem in the 1967, the Jewish state has said it considers the city its "unified and eternal capital".
It has annexed east Jerusalem in a move not recognised by the international community.

I can imagine being rather miffed, were I the Arabs in question.

So be miffed? Is that any r... (Below threshold)
Kin:

So be miffed? Is that any right to act like a barbarian? The fact is, by International Law, Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria and Aza (as well as the Golan Heights) are all Israeli. They were taken from an aggressor in a time of war, when the aggerssor used those territories to stage attacks.
And if you start a war and lose, you might occasionally have your nose rubbed in it.




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