Rep. Jim Moran - can you spot the typo in his name?

Haha - you're an idiot

Where was Bagdhad Bob? Certainly he would have given a much-needed sense of credibility to the hearing.

On your article:
"Why they didn't invite former Department of Labor chief economist, Department of Labor chief economist, Morgan Reynolds P.H.D"

The hearing is an "open invitation". Everyone (senate,congress, white house) is welcome to attend. See http://www.downingstreetmemo.com/news.html

Democratic hearing on
Downing Street Memo/Minutes
and Pre-war intelligence

On Thursday June 16, 2005, Rep. John Conyers, Jr., Ranking Member of the House Judiciary Committee, and other Congress Members held a hearing on the Downing Street Minutes and related evidence of efforts to cook the books on pre-war intelligence.

After the hearing, Congressman Conyers delivered his letter to the President with the signatures of over 540,000 Americans and 122 members of Congress. Not content to stop there, Conyers has pledged to keep his campaign going, and to personally see to it that every additional signature is delivered to the White House.

The hearing will be re-broadcast on C-SPAN 2 Friday night (6/17) at 8:00pm EST.
Don't miss it!

No, Brian, that's not it.

But thank you for playing!

It's clear: Bush is a marr murdering liar. All
republicans lie. IMPEACH ALL REPUBLICANS.

I'm sure Michael Moore was running the camera.

I'm sure Michael Moore was running the camera at the, er, conference.

I agree with Brian. You're an absolute idiot. You can continue to drink from the right wing Kool-Aid fountain of self imposed ignorance but in the end you'll still not have a clear understanding of the truth.

The beginning of the end of the Republican control of Washington. ;)

This morning I saw a garbage truck. Just an ordinary truck, picking up peoples' garbage. A truck driven by union garbage guys - one of the strongest unions around here (NW Indiana, close to Chicago). It had two little American flags taped to the mirrors and "support the troops" stickers. I pulled over and asked what they thought of the war in Iraq. They said it didn't sound too good but that we had to beat the bastards.
The Democratic party leaders seem totally unaware of people like these. They care nothing for them, scorn them; their tried and true constituents. Can 10% of a party really run the whole show?
For how long?

A Republican is a person who will support any war he doesn't have to invest his children in or can profit from. Clinton lied about a person matter and it doesn't matter. Bush lies about War and thousand die. Try to remember that if you can get your head out of Bush's Nazi ass.

Hmmm.

It's moonbat mating season.

Ahhh spring. When moonbats migrate to their home in Washington D.C. and other urban environs. Watch as they make their nests in awkward unconfortable places, and then spend endless hours justifying such placements. Listen to their mating calls as moonbats seek out one another in a loving embrace of shared values.

Listen? Can you hear the loons?

"Republicans are Evil!"
"Bush HitlerMcChimpy!"

Ahh. The sounds of moonbat love.

Here's what I want to know. What would the reaction of the Rightie Blogosphere and the press in general have been if Clinton had locked the White House gates against a senior Republican Member of Congress bearing a letter co-signed by 101 of his fellow Members and 560,000 American citizens? Even if the Downing Street Memo and all the documents that support it are suppressed now, can you imagine that they won't be an important part of the historical record of the Bush/Cheney era?
Please keep commenting on the Moonbattery of the DSM; it may cause a few more people to actually read its short straightforward text.

Will this be "the beginning of the end" like Joe Wilson's memo was? Or maybe that was the CBS "draft" memo that was the end. No wait, Nov. 2 was the end, right? I've gotten so confused I can't tell which "end" is up. Or maybe this DSM is the end-all, be-all end? Ugh.

All I know is that this issue is going to end up in a dead end, like it should. And all this liberal posturing and all these liberal pronouncements is just so much hot air coming from, well, their back ends.

Can 10% of a party really run the whole show?
Well, they seem to be doing ok with it in the Republican Party.

For how long?
Hopefully, not too much longer.

If we fail to control the spin on this then we will surely be beaten back by the truth, and the entire house of cards will come tumbling down.

I warned you all when this first leaked that the "it's old news" and "fixed just means repaired" twists were pathetically weak, but no one has come up with anything better.

It's not too late -- we desperately need someone to investigate the fonts and the kerning in this memo.

Will this be "the beginning of the end" like Joe Wilson's memo was? Or maybe that was the CBS "draft" memo that was the end. No wait, Nov. 2 was the end, right? I've gotten so confused I can't tell which "end" is up. Or maybe this DSM is the end-all, be-all end?

Hopefully it will. To put it in terms you can understand, think of it like all those corners we keep turning in Iraq.

Hmmm.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm feeling a little evil right now.

I'm off to torture a delicious hamburger. I'm going to interrogate it severely with crisp lettuce, lightly salted tomato slices and slices of sharp white onion. Then I'll make it beg for mercy as I lay on the ketchup and fresh mayo.

Oh the horror. The horror.

Pray for me. My descent into madness of Republican ChimpyMcEvil begins.

In case anybody cares, Rick Moron, excuse me, Moran is the host of an appropriately named site called Right Wing Nuthouse. A place where Rick posts such idiocy as the above daily, then spends his entire day deleting the posts of anyone who dares disagree with him. Apparently the poor fellow has no job or life, preferring instead to spend his time as a full time apologist for CIA torturers and the incomparably incompetent president George "Deficit" Bush.

It will all come out in the wash.

Can't wait! It's fantastic to see the vice squeezing the ugly American bastards.

John H.

Please less cryptic you speak of corners, no?. No English understand. Sense make no. Vague much too. Again try.

(Speaking like Yoda helps me relate to the space cadet liberals! ;-)

On and on it goes. 'Moonbats' asking for a hearing to find the truth. Right wing nutjobs calling them names and thinking that they and only they are right. Bush has made a mistake, one that has cost thousands of lives, and noone on the far right will admit it. His followers wish he was Reagan, and follow blindly wherecer he (Karl Rove) tells them to go (as long as it does not involve putting their ass on the line). Everyone who loves Bush so much that will not admit the horrible error in judgemnt in the rush to war (and now it looks like a premeditated rush) and refuses to even bother to question the motives and reasoning for this mess should put it on the line and volunteer. I smell a draft coming, Kevin (Moonbat in charge) should go first.

Hmmm.

I guess since GannonGate kinda just fizzled out the Left has been searching for something to finally make the cornerstone of their efforts. Something monumental that they can point to and show how powerful they are, or how relevant.

But no matter how much you flog this horse, it won't run any faster.

You Israel-firster types crack me up.

Hmmmm.

"rush to war"

ROFLMAO! Ok let's look at this. The Left is accusing Bush of having planned the invasion since, at least, 9/11 and possibly before. The invasion happened in March of 2003. So if we take the memo at face value then it took 8 months to "rush to war". If we go with the moonbat theory then it took 18 months to "rush to war".

That sure is some rushing.

I remember when a two bit burglary at Watergate was no big deal. As America wakes up to the real Bush his ratings in the polls continue to drop and so does his faked war. Ask yourself how many Republicans do you know with offspring in the War. You will find that it is only the men on the garbage truck who have been fool by Bush and have children in the War. I know many Republican who don’t have any one in this fake war. I also know many Democrats who don’t support the War but their kids are in Iraq. I’ve been there. If you support the war. Good. Go out right now and send you kid to Iraq or go yourself. Lets see your real support other than a bumper sticker on you car as it is powered by the blood of American GIs. Put up or shut up. Let’s see Bush sent his kids just like he wants to send you kids to fight in their place. The man has no concept of what war really is. Do you.

Hmmmm.

"I remember when a two bit burglary at Watergate was no big deal."

I remember when a deliberate deception perpetrated by a sitting President to mire an innocent country in a ever spiraling war.

Oh wait. That was Lyndon Baines Johnson, Democrat.

LOL.

Hmmm.

If I had a quarter for every "vietnam vet" or "green beret" or "seal" I've met online, I'd have a boatload of quarters.

So, Ed are you going to send you kid or go your self. Or are you just spouting Right Wing Bullshit as always. Come on Ed. Your a tough guys. When are you going to Iraq, you coward. You can remember how many GIs died for gas for your car.

-----------------------------------
All I know is that this issue is going to end up in a dead end, like it should. And all this [insert party affil here] posturing and all these [insert party affil here] pronouncements is just so much hot air coming from, well, their back ends.
-----------------------------------

we said the same thing about Billy and Monica :)

Ed sounds like the typical armchair warrior. I'm no seal or green beret, just a ground pounding grunt that was in Kuwait and Iraq in 1991. If you'll recall, we didnt get Saadam then because there was no clear way out after that. So Ed, go on now, get some of that sand in between your toes. If you think the war is right, go fight it.

Hmmm.

Oh no! A moonbat called me a coward! OMG!

I'm shocked, SHOCKED, at such language.

Please. Keep the drivel coming.

Hmmm.

Oh no! I've been insulted and demeaned by a moonbat!

My life is over.

"Oh wait. That was Lyndon Baines Johnson, Democrat."
And the same people who are now so disgusted with the current President (at least those of us who were alive and politically aware in 1966-1668), were just as disgusted with LBJ's war policies. He had some domestic policies that were OK, but the war trumped them all. The current Presidency, on the other hand, has no mitigating factors.

Hmmm.

If I had a dime for every "veteran of Gulf I" I met online, I'd have a Death Star full of dimes.

Bill M.:

I think there was a cigar involved, too. That still gives me the heebee jeebies.

But I disgress...

Back to the delusional, conspiratorial and space cadet talk on the memo...

Where was Bagdhad Bob? Certainly he would have given a much-needed sense of credibility to the hearing.

Posted by: Mike at June 17, 2005 02:51 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This administation is the only "Bagdhad Bob."

Every time some event occurs in Iraq, bush, cheney et al talk about the turning point and everything is fine, only to find Iraq continuing to spiral into more death and destruction for all parties involved!

I hate these no good bastards. This is from a father of a 2 tour Marine in Iraq who has survived this disater.

Charles: And I'm sure your son is proud of his father's attempts to sabotage his mission and his country... in his name.

Hmmm.

1. "And the same people who are now so disgusted with the current President (at least those of us who were alive and politically aware in 1966-1668), were just as disgusted with LBJ's war policies."

Really? Prove it. Provide the quotations and the links.

2. "He had some domestic policies that were OK"

You mean like *welfare*? You know the War on Poverty, that actually sucked up trillions of dollars and accomplished nothing but urban blight?

3. "The current Presidency, on the other hand, has no mitigating factors."

http://www.freespeech.com/archives/000336.html

Can't argue with that. Chimpy McHitlerBushHalliburtonOil and all that.

"Why they didn't invite former Department of Labor chief economist, Morgan Reynolds P.H.D, to explain what really happened on 9/11 is mystifying."

Ha! The "truth about 9/11" crowd was already well represented. It is a shame the Washington Post didn't pull that string.

Mr. Morgan,

Do you really think you can laugh off a petition of more than half a million? When that many people sign a petition it represents many more. I should think that republicans would want to address the Downing Street Memo so they can try to debunk it – arrogant power in trouble can always be recognized when it pretends it can’t hear an honest question.

Now, now. If somebody on the Left can please make a point (any one would be welcome, actually) on the DSM...oh wait, nevermind, they can't.

Now, now. If somebody on the Left can please make a point (any one would be welcome, actually) on the DSM...oh wait, nevermind, they can't.

You know Ed, it is a sick person who make jokes as other people die. You still haven't said when big brave you are going to Iraq.

I've been a registered Republican for 36 years. I was proud of that, but have recently been disgusted, absolutely disgusted about what's happened to my party.

When did it become a Republican value to mock our constitution? To joke about human suffering? Do any of you young people have any concept of what it really means to be a True Patriot? You stand up for your country ALWAYS, and your government WHEN IT DESERVES IT.

Let me tell you younger Republicans something you may not know: Once upon a time our party used to stand for Independence from government, responsibility for one's actions, and most importantly, honor to God. Not anymore. Because of the behavior of theses crooks in the whitehouse, our party is being hijacked and turned into another Axis of Evil. How do you defeat evil? You sure as hell don't copy it.

Well, I quit. As of today, I am no longer a Rupublican. I serve God and I serve my country. I do not bow to this corrupt government or the mainstream media that props them up. Hatemongers, good riddance!

Hmmm.

I must bid you all adieu, I'm off to my lovely weekend of oppressing all the peoples of the world for their oil.

Remember! Have a Chimpy McHitlerBush day!

Hmmmm.

If I had a penny for every "I was a lifelong Republican until this President" I've met online, I'd have Ringworld full of pennies.

Oh wow, another "former" Republican. Yes, I believe that. I also believe I have a "secret" memo I can sell you, too. Cheap, I swear. Good stuff, too.

You Lefties are more pathetic now than you were when I was one in the 80s.

Well, I guess the insane never really know they're insane now do they.

Actually, in the electronic age, a petition with half a million signatures can represent any number of people from one (1) on up.

I'd be more interested in one (1) reasoned opinion than any number of astroturfed mouse clicks.

I agree with Peter - I would love to see a concise, reasoned point about why this memo is definitive, rather than ad hominem and tu quoque outbursts.

I also want a chocolate chip cookie, but that is off topic, I guess...

Ed,

Why do you start each post with a long hummer?

Ah, you suck.

Check.

I figure you only deal in ad hominem attacks so there ya go.

But seriously, are you going to enlist or have your kid enlist? Simlple yes or no will do.

Dude you showed up on news.google.com !

I captured a screenie and posted it here:

http://www.matchzone.net/wizbangongoogle.jpgtest

(Sorry for the raw link post. I am unfamiliar with the sytax in use here and raw html does not appear to work)

Sweet.

oops my html test was still in the link when I posted. remove the test after the .jpg.

Here's a better link:

http://www.matchzone.net/wizbangongoogle.jpg

I printed out the PDF of the memo but it fell in the toiled. I accidentally pissed on it and then flushed it down the drain.

Am I on trial for warcrimes now? I feel like such a nazi. It is un-American to flush paper down the shitter. OH THE HUMANITY!

PLEASE FORGIVE ME!!!!

Brucie,

I suppose that half-million includes the requisite percentages of dead people, family pets, imaginary people, and duplicates-- not to mention felons and illegal aliens.

After all, this is the Dummycraps we're talking about here..."Crack-rocks-for-ballots 2004" ring a bell?

LC NippleTickSteel,

Yes, I'm sure you're right, half a million imaginary people signed the petition - as I said "arrogant power in trouble can always be recognized when it pretends it can’t hear an honest question."

The menos (there are more than one) are definitive, or more accurately damaging because,

1) they were written by Bush's allies, not the opposition party.

2) they pre-date the war. They have historical context that can't be chalked up to partison bickering. These were Bush's closest friends discussing exactly where he was messing up and how to avoid making the same mistakes.

3) Just the fact that there is so much attention paid to these memos prove they're significant.

There is no discounting them or avioding the fact Bush committed war crimes. Can he be tried? Not until the Congress changes hands. These memos may very well cause that to happen. The approval rating of Congress, even among Republicans is in the toilet due to all the corruptions. Dissatifaction with Congress is bad for the majority party.

The stench of desperation has overpowered the entire left whinge. Hence the current noise level. After all their tired and incorrect "arguments" get debunked and buried, they will use them about 50% less. SOP for demoncrats, when they are marginalized (for good reason).

To Think about it.
You are not a lone. Many of my Republican friend are wondering what happen to their party. This will show up in the vote of Nov 2. The party of fiscal conservatism has been take over by spending worst than any Democrat could ever have do. $4 trillion blown since Bush stole the presidency As a person that is economically conservative and socially liberal, I vote we form a new party. In the middle. This would end the 50 – 50 split in American. 2/3 would vote for economically conservatism and 2/3 would vote for social liberalism. Then thing would get done in DC and NO ONE party would be doing a power grab like now.

'the intelligence and the facts were being fixed around the policy'
-Downing Street Memo

If the Congress were in the Democrat's hands, this Downing Street Memo issue would be enough to impeach Bush.

If Delay falls for corruption, how many Republicans will go down with him?

btw, where did this term "moonbat" come from?

I kinda like it.

It brings up images of bats swooping among the trees... at night... in the eerie glow of a big full moon.

I am a happy righteous moonbat swooping among the wizbang fascists.

Is this what you were looking for Parker:

Downing Street II
Ray McGovern
June 13, 2005

The Evidence Strengthens

When asked about the July 23, 2002, minutes at their press conference last week in Washington, President Bush and Prime Minister Blair did a good job of obfuscating—enough to mislead our corporate press into the all-too-familiar he-said, she-said reporting. What went unnoticed was the fact that in the process, the two leaders unintentionally acknowledged the authenticity of the minutes, which read like a meeting of Mafioso. They may think no one will read the actual minutes. In that, they are dead wrong. And these new British revelations have already strengthened the case against the Bush administration.

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/20050613/downing_street_ii.php

Comment: This is why the Democrats love the theory of evolution... they can see the Darwinian process taking place infront of them in the Republican party as each of Rebpublican ideologies dies off.

Well, I quit. As of today, I am no longer a Rupublican. I serve God and I serve my country. I do not bow to this corrupt government or the mainstream media that props them up. Hatemongers, good riddance!

Yeah, right, anyone who has voted Republican for the last 26 years sure as hell knows that the MSM does not prop them up! Give us a break. This younger Republican knows enough not to listen to that BS!!.

And really Bruce, 500,000 online signatures out of a country with what 290 million and you call that ignoring? So an arrogant power is one that ignores 0.17% of its population, not to mention that percentage most likely can't stand him anyway.

So what's the question again??

Imaginary people. Have any of you Nazis ever signed a petition? I was one of those Imaginary people and it would not let me sign twice. Continue to make joke as people die for gas in you car. You must be real proud of yourself. Do you go to GI’s funerals and laugh?. There are many people like “Think about it” who have half a brain and can see something is rotten in the Whitehouse and needs flushing out. Come on lets see more of your moron humor

there are several more Bush era "deep throats" out there, and they are about to find out they have nothing to fear anymore.

sorry thinkaboutit, that should say 36 years. Like it matters though.

And now it's on top of the US section. Excellent.

http://www.matchzone.net/wizbangtopheadlinegoogle.jpg

*****************************
And really Bruce, 500,000 online signatures out of a country with what 290 million and you call that ignoring? So an arrogant power is one that ignores 0.17% of its population, not to mention that percentage most likely can't stand him anyway.

*****************************

hmm, in 3 weeks time, minus all the children, minus everyone who dosent have internet access, minus all the people who never heard anything about the downing street minutes before, minus all the people who still dont know what its all about, and that 290 million "possible" signers falls significantly to point where the percentage becomes very very very relavent.

The reality is that the wimp dog media is finally starting to cover the DSM and it is going to become a loud noise before it is dead. Continue to make jokes but the end of the second Bush Reich is in sight.

Nearly every paper in the country is running an article about the DSM... including this one. Evidence or not, the fact that the DSM has become a national topical point illustrates how unavoidable the DSM is! Another, and lastly, final point... if it is fake, then why hasn't it been proven wrong as was the case of the Dan Rather Swift Boat memo? Conservative bloggers would have easily uncovered it as being 'fake'... the only thing left for the right is their usual 'spin' effort.

Bullsh*t Bill!! That percentage becomes no where near significant. It's not even significant given the 59 million people who voted for Kerry. Give the petition thing a rest.

And Bill the Viet Vet, you should be real proud of yourself calling people who disagree with you Nazis! Now that's intelligence.

The 500k petitioners stemmed from a grassroots effort of bloggers here in the US, which doubled every week for a month. In the UK, this WAS/IS a huge issue and cost Blair dearly in his election. It was only a matter of time before it became a MSM issue here.

"You can remember how many GIs died for gas for your car."

-Bill, Viet Vet and Notable Supreme Grand Wizard Jedi Master of the English Language

******

Ah, the vaunted 'no blood for oil' theme. That hasn't been beaten into the ground or anything. I think of it every time I drop $30 to fill my car...

If John Conyers is the best the Left could come up with to spearhead their little DSM fiesta, then they are in even far deeper trouble politically than I could have ever imagined.

Mike,

So a petition of half a million means nothing. Is that why I can go to my congressman with a petition of a few thousand and have him consider the subject seriously. The number of names on a petition always represents many more people than are listed. Would you say the same if it were a petition of half a million republican signatures?

Viewing the above posts tells me Savage is right...Liberalism is a mental disease that is not easily self diagnosed. I think I just saw bats coming out a few of their asses. Anti-American spewers of venom against our country, all the while protesting their support for it. And now getting closer and closer to dropping their fake protest 'that we do support the troops' from their mantra, into direct opposition. Bill the Vietnam Vet must have lost the years in between...hey Bill the Army is now volunteer, and we don't have to send your cowardly kids since they won't be in the service of our country; you dumb frick. The rhetoric is getting back...the next step down is violence...in this case the liberals and democrats lose in 3 weeks....lock and load! We will not send them to Gitmo; send all the unpatriotic fricks to France and let them whine for the rest of their pathetic lives.

Alex... didn't you pay $15 bucks to fill up just a couple years ago? Kinda 'should' make you wonder.

Kid Hobo,

Gas prices go up and down. When they're down, bully for us all. When they're up, I deal. No sense crying about it. I choose to drive my $30 fill-up car. If it ever got to be too much, then I'd consider changing my transport. That's life.

We're still better off than the Europeans, who pay out the a$$.

As Norman Mailer pointed out, the influence of Leo Strauss belies justifications given by the world's leading apologists for the police state which has come to pass. Perhaps for the first time since the late 1940s, the apparent demise of "anti-Americanism" as a respectable means of stifling recognition of American imperialism is solid evidence of the theocrat Ashcroft's suspension of our civil rights. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, Donald Rumsfeld's worldview is determined by capitalist interests which lead to an act of international violence that exceeds even those of the "liberal" Bill Clinton. Let us never forget that the unstated purpose of this war can be seen in the light of the apparent fabrications which lead to the resurgence of White Supremacist ideologies.

dickd,

Is your view the typical Republican view - I don't think so. I don't really think republicans are that stupid. I think they take a different angle on loyalty to our country, that doesn't mean it's always wrong, but it doesn't mean it's always right either. If you are that intolerant of other people’s opinions, you need serious psychoanalysis.

Clearly, the appropriation of Arab resources can be regarded as the theocrat Ashcroft's suspension of our civil rights. On the other hand, Colin Powell's parade of lies belies justifications given by the world's leading apologists for the resurgence of White Supremacist ideologies. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, the pro-Sharon neoconservative cabal brings forth an oil war masquerading as an endless crusade against "terrorism." Presumably, a minority of warmongers and apologists is determined by capitalist interests which lead to the flagrant lies promulgated by the political donor class.

$30 bucks for a tankful? Where do I get in line? I just spent $72 bucks to fill my F150 (it does have 2 tanks). The sooner we can directly convert islamists to gasoline the better!

Tob

(hey, this insulting hatemongering is fun. I better quit before I get addicted)

It is not heartening that the appropriation of Arab resources is determined by capitalist interests which lead to the seizure of the Iraqi Oil Ministry. On the other hand, the deal between the Department of Defense and Halliburton unit Kellogg, Brown & Root brings about the flagrant lies promulgated by the political donor class. This suggests that the apparent demise of "anti-Americanism" as a respectable means of stifling recognition of American imperialism represents the crushing of internal dissent in order to propagate the theocrat Ashcroft's suspension of our civil rights. It is quite remarkable that the Pax Americana of the future brings forth the slaughter of thousands of children by Air Force cluster bombs.

For one thing, Bush’s argument for war is solid evidence of the essential Western imperial interests. So far, Americanism as an ideology represents the crushing of internal dissent in order to propagate the resurgence of White Supremacist ideologies. This suggests that the influence of Leo Strauss belies justifications given by the world's leading apologists for the result of a pre-fascist atmosphere in America. Let us never forget that the appropriation of Arab resources is determined by capitalist interests which lead to the police state which has come to pass.

Oh boy - interesting bunch of intelectuals here...wow. The dialogue is amazing...some of you should go work for the Washington Times - you are THAT good.
Demoncrats and Moonbats. That is how we deal with the other half of the country - revert to name calling - classy bunch.

all you leftist commies need to have your breains blown out. be a real true patriet and support our president. or else go live some other place where you can be with your freinds like iran.

Proud American:
You forgot to add "Heil Bush" at the end and talk about "when we gonna hang all dem negroes."

Bad impersonation, back to the DU for you.

Dickd..I'll go to France if you go to Iraq. I've already been there in the service of my country and you should find it to be a memorable experience.
The question remains, did the president lie to congress and the country to get the US into this war. Obviously the president didn't have a good plan for afterwards, but what was the reasoning beforehand. The DSM raises questions that should be investigated by an independent authority, and if there is nothing to it, then the name calling can cease. If you truly believe that the search for truth, however unpleasant to your belief system, is not worthwhile then this country obviously isn't for you. I beleive that there is something to it, others may disagree, regardless we should see is there is anything to it.

How these sicko liberals control the news media and have the unadulterated nerve to speak for 300+ million people with fake news conferences, hearings with no agenda but the anti-American leftist agenda, and "petitions" signed by 500,000 leftist psychos is beyond me.

This country is getting worse because of these people. They are sickening.

Alex, you're point it moot. Europe is not USA. Gas hit $57 a barrel today, futures estimated well over $65. Part of that trend is attributed to a falling dollar, ie, currency valuations are correlated in the world's economies 'faith' in the dollar. When that 'faith' due to our current foreighn policy continues to decline... your gas will continue to cost more.

Is this whole thread a plot by The Whiz to pump up his hit counts. Is it sweeps week on blog-ads? More moon-battery, more moon-battery. I'm pressing refresh like a lab monkey on crack!

Tob

heil bush!

Honesty and care is in short supply in this country.
All this name calling, it's sad
We get tossed scraps and fight over them.
Guess who runs to the bank laughing?

Wake up you all.

Damn, its slowing down. Isthe library closing?

Tob

Actually Goober, I got a raise today, so I laughing to the bank.

Tobias

On the other hand, the influence of Leo Strauss represents the crushing of internal dissent in order to propagate the resurgence of White Supremacist ideologies. This suggests that the American state, with its unelected president, venal Supreme Court, silent Congress, gutted Bill of Rights and compliant media brings forth an oil war masquerading as an endless crusade against "terrorism." So far, the unstated purpose of this war represents the repudiation of international law in order to bring about the predatory imperialist aims outlined by the crypto-fascist Project for a New American Century. As Norman Mailer pointed out, Colin Powell's parade of lies brings about the theocrat Ashcroft's suspension of our civil rights.

"brings about the theocrat Ashcroft's suspension of our civil rights."

There's just something about people on TV and the internet shouting about how they're being silenced that doesn't parse with me. If only it were so.

Tob

all you leftist commies need to have your breains blown out. be a real true patriet and support our president. or else go live some other place where you can be with your freinds like iran.

I am a War veteran, I have two war disabled brothers. I have one MIA brother in Korea. A patriot is some that stand up for his country when his country call. He doesn’t hide behind his father political power and condemn those who have served. What have you done to earn your citizenship? Hide like Bush did?
If the Religious Right is allow to take over this country, as Bush would like, than it will be just like living in Iran or Saudi Arabia. You had better wake up and quit contemning intellectuals because it is obvious, from your spelling, you are not one

"God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them."

George W. Bush

or one thing, the Pax Americana of the future represents the repudiation of international law in order to bring about an oil war masquerading as an endless crusade against "terrorism." On the other hand, Bush’s argument for war can be seen in the light of the apparent fabrications which lead to the seizure of the Iraqi Oil Ministry. Clearly, the pro-Sharon neoconservative cabal brings forth the result of a pre-fascist atmosphere in America. Nevertheless, Americanism as an ideology belies justifications given by the world's leading apologists for the predatory imperialist aims outlined by the crypto-fascist Project for a New American Century.

"God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them."

G. W. Bush

Toby928

Wage slave, get a clue

Are you quotig Chomsky there Stan? It has his particular stench about it.

Tob

"My secret plans are to take over the world, just like Hitler! MUHAHHAHAHA!"

George W. Bush

--

"Actually that is MY plan, MUHAHAHHAA!"

Darth Cheney

Hey goober, I'm fighting the power right now. I'm posting instead of working ;-)

Tob

Ah - the dialogue is getting better - NonHater has made some very interesting points...

Questions should be raised and answers should be given - it is for a love of country that this is true. Blind obediance does not a great country make.

I love my country. I'd die for my country, but the problem is the enemy of my land is not in Iraq, it's in Washington.

Blind obediance does not a great country make.

Posted by: Some Dude
-----------------
No, but it makes Fascism work great!

Questions are being raised, Mostly about the sanity of Dean, Conyers, and Durban. If this kind of exercise is going to continue to be the practice of the Democratic party, then I see a future of unbroken Republican hegemony and that isn't good.

Tob

LOL, be a true patriot and support your president! And this coming from lame coward republicans who do absolutely nothing but profit from a war they support, but won't fight themselves. You people do realize you will be damned to hell, don't you? I will pray for you. But to say the people who are fighting the war are cowards is a joke. Get off your lazy rich republican asses and fight the war yourself. And then us poor liberals wiil cheer you guys on to the end, I promise.

I don't know if they are totally off mark with what they have said. If you listen to Durban - he is not making a crazy accusation - he seemed to be seriously concerned with our behavior. I for one welcome the attention in the media and the start of a serious debate.

Anne Coulter. Is a fine example on the Republican side - what do you make of her remarks?

Joe Mamma you retard! That's the whole point: You do not have to support your president to be a patriot! Wake up Sheeple.

Joe H. Are you reading impaired? Joe Mamma is on your side! sheesh

Tob

I am an American Patriot. I am not a Bush Patriot.

Put Bush and Cheney on the front lines, and televise it. Now I would support that! While we are at it, enlist the twin brats and send them to Iraq. Just tell them they will get all the booze and drugs they desire.

"Anne Coulter. Is a fine example on the Republican side - what do you make of her remarks?" Some, if that question is for me i'll answer: I laugh. Her enemies are the best part of her schtick, kind of like Rush. Its not that they are that clever, its just how much they bother their opponents.

Tob

"Put Bush and Cheney on the front lines"

Good one! Like we haven't heard that before. I'm sure FDR could have whipped Hirohito ass with one hand tied behind his back and both legs paralyzed.

Tob

Chuckle . . .

You gotta love the loons on the left. I especially love the pseudo-intellectual rants from Skip the former Republican, Fred, crippled homeless boy, Pam, nonpartisan housewife, and Unbiased Objective Non-Hater.

I wonder if the troll thinks they are fooling anyone?

Thanks for jumping in DavidB. I can't hold the hit counts up by myself. Plus, its quitting time and I soon have to quit cheating my employer by googing off like this.

Tob

Toby - yes it was you I was talkin too...

So I guess that they do it for the money and the attention - and you are concerned that Dean Conyers and Durbin are either eleceted officials or oficial party spokespeople?

I think that the real issue that all we get are the soundbites and the little snipets. We don't get contect, we don't get the details and I heard that God was in the details...but I also heard he was alive and well in Mazula (sp?) MT.

googing? Is that esparanto? or some secret language twins use?

Name that quote!

Tob

goofing

DavidB:

And I've YET to hear them make a relevant and real point about the DSM.

"all you leftist commies need to have your breains blown out. be a real true patriet and support our president."

Breains ? Patriet?

This is too funny. What a perfect example of Right Wing thinking.

If the president is a war criminal, the true PATRIOTS will convict him.

Some, what a reasonable questions, unfortunately this isn't the thread for reasonableness. I'll watch for you on more scholarly threads and I can tell you what I really think. This threads for rumbling!

Tob

Patterico has got the best posters if you like reasoned disagreements, sorry Whiz, I didn't mean it!

"the Pax Americana of the future represents the repudiation of international law in order to bring about an oil war masquerading as an endless crusade against terrorism."

It just doesn't work as well without hitler comparisons.

Since the left believes we live in a dictatorial police state already, it would be appreciable if they rounded themselves up, imprisoned themselves, and executed each other, before President Bush gets around to doing it for them. The best part is, no innocents will be harmed.

THE FUNNY THING IS, THIS WAS A TOP SECRET OFFICIAL BRITISH INTELLIGENCE REPORT. THE LANGUAGE PLAINLY STATES THAT THE FACTS WERE BEING ADJUSTED TO FIT THE POLICY. BELEIVE CNN AND FOX NEWS IF YOU'D LIKE, BUT WHERE DOES THEIR INFO ON INTELLIGENCE COME FROM? THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WILL BE LEAD TO BELIEVE WHATEVER THE WHITE HOUSE WOULD LIKE US TO. WATCH BBC NEWS AND THE FACT ARE A BIT DIFFERENT. THE SAD FACT IS THAT AMERICA AND GEORGE BUSH ARE IN THE WRONG WHEN IT COMES TO IRAQ. THE DAYS OF FIGHTING A WAR FOR A WORTHY CAUSE ARE OVER. THIS WAR WAS GOING TO HAPPEN REGARDLESS OF IMAGINARY WMDS, IT WAS A PLOY TO GET COMPLIANCE FROM THE PUBLIC. WHAT ABOUT IRAN AND NORTH KOREA? IRAQ IS A GOOD IDEA BECAUSE PEAK OIL IS REAL AND NOW, AND SECURING IRAQ MEANS WE CAN BUILD BASES IN THE REGION. WE CAN CREATE A NATURAL GAS PIPLINE THOUGH AFGANISTAN AND IRAQ (COINCIDENCE?) OUR REAL ENEMY IS GEORGE AND DICK. WHO REALLY CARED ABOUT SADDAMM HUSSEIN BEFORE DESERT STORM? SADDAMM HAS MORE IN COMMON WITH GEORGE BUSH THAN I DO. AM I A DEMOCRAT? NO! THE AGENDA IS THE SAME. GLOBAL CORPORATE POWER. IT IS IGNORANCE FROM PEOPLE LIKE KEVIN WHO SUPPORT OUR LEADERS NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO. SO JUSTIFY IT TO YOURSELF IF IT MAKES YOU FEEL BETTER AND HELPS YOU SLEEP AT NIGHT. IF YOU WANT TO SEE THE REAL THREAT TO GLOBAL PEACE LOOK TO OUR LEADERS. I LOVE OUR SOLIDERS, THEY WILL DO THEIR DUTY. MORALE IS LOW BECAUSE NOW MANY OF THEM KNOW THAT THEY'VE BEEN DUPPED. BUT ONCE THEIR NAME IS SIGNED ON THAT DOTTED LINE, ALL THEY CAN DO IS TRY TO SURVIVE. ANYONE HEARD OF NOAM CHOMSKY? GET THE FACTS!

Check again Peter - I saw a number of relevant and real points about the DSM.

Or maybe you just don't want to know?

Nothing like all CAPS to prove you're serious.

Don't liberals know that their anti-American anti-war rhetoric lowers troop morale and gets soldiers killed. Liberals have a lot of blood on their hands. Learn the lessons of Vietnam, and for once, just once in the last 50 years, get on the right side of U.S. foreign policy.

Anybody else remember when the repugnicans tried to convince people that they *cared* when a President told a lie?

In November of 2002, the US President went to the United Nations and received Security Council Resolution 1441[1].

In March of 2003 the President declared war on Iraq[2].

The Downing Street Minutes as well as six other documents purport that in early 2002, the President had made up his mind on regime change, and that the British Prime Minister had agreed to that regime change.[3]

The Downing Street Minutes have been verifed as authentic by high ranking british government officials, and the six other documents have been verified as authentic by NBC News.[4] These are primary source documents from the top of the British Secret Service as well as top British Government officials.

As the evidence is presented it can be concluded that when President Bush went on public record between early 2002, and early 2003 and stated that every diplomatic means was being taken to not take America into war with Iraq, he was in fact, lying.

In other news, records of 40,000 Mastercard Card holders have been compromised.[6]

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UN_Security_Council_Resolution_1441
2. http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/03/20030319-17.html
3. http://rawstory.com/exclusives/larisa/downing_street_documents_613
4. http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8207731
5. http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/050617/175525.html?.v=1

In other news, records of 40,000 Mastercard Card holders have been compromised.[6]

should read:

In other news, records of 40,000 Mastercard Card holders have been compromised.[5]

Tom, your not actually quoting wikipedia are you? You do understand that that is joe-blow modified? Stay away from politics on that site. Anything else is fairly good but politics is just troll-fodder. I think I'll go change it to say "In March of 2003 the President declared war on France"

Tob

Fair enough Tob - I appreciate the recomendation...

rumblings huh - i got one but you can't really send a virtual fart...sorry I always go to toilet humor...something in the Urban air I breath...

Yeah, sometimes threads just go to hell and the best thing to do is drop out or ride the whirlwind.

Tob

McCain-"Don't liberals know that their anti-American anti-war rhetoric lowers troop morale and gets soldiers killed." They also want to lower the moral of all Americans so they lose faith in the war.

THAT IS THEIR GOAL. They don't think they have anything to be sorry about or apologize for because they achieved thier goal. It doesn't matter HOW they do it, only that they achieve it.

Some dude, is that your regular handle? If it is, i'll google you and loadup for our next encounter ;-)

Tob

What would a relevant question look like to you hopelessly impenetrable Repub. dweebs? The memos are themselves the relevant question, idiots. It is hard to explain something so obvious, but zi will try: the head British spy told his boss that our spys were going to cook up some lies as justification to invade Iraq, and our President told those lies to the Congress of the US to cpnvince them to give him war powers, and he told those lies to us, the American people, and the rest of the world. Gosh for being "so smart" you guys sure are dumb not to see how obvious this is.

Not that it matters really since you won't believe me, but my father, an attorney, was a life-long Republican- he was proud to be a Nixon man! Last November he voted for John Kerry, the 1st time in his life he didn't vote Republican. I guess he is just more reflective and intelligent than you guys.

Stuey

Why is everything so black and white with Conservatives? I don't know either. But for those of you out there, consider this:

We are Liberal because we think it’s important protect and preserve our environment for our children, and our children’s children. It is not because we like to hug trees.

We are Liberal because when we try to impose Christian values upon everyone it displays our intolerance for those that do not believe, and our inability to learn from the mistakes people have made in the past. It is not because we do not believe.

We are Liberal because we think rewarding heterosexual marriage with tax breaks and better health coverage is discriminatory to those that are not heterosexual. It is not because we have a pro-homosexual agenda.

We are Liberal because we don’t need someone in the White House to show me the meaning of morality—we can think for ourselves! It is not because we are amoral.

We are Liberal because there are people out there that need our help through no fault of their own. It is not because we want bigger government or higher taxes.

We are Liberal because war should be a last resort, justified by the people, for the people. It is not because we don’t support our troops or that we hate Americans.

Well Sue, it depends on whether war-protesting liberals are intentionally evil or simply naive. I think a mixture of both, as I have observed both kinds with great curiosity in my travels.

Certainly one can say that war protesting liberals tend to hate a lot, a psychological problem that reflects self-hatred projected on to others. If they hate themselves, how can they possibly love their countrymen?

"my father, an attorney, was a life-long Republican- he was proud to be a Nixon man! Last November he voted for John Kerry, the 1st time in his life he didn't vote Republican"

Argument from authority doesn't work when your invisible. I don't even know if you have a father.

"the head British spy told his boss that our spys were going to cook up some lies as justification to invade Iraq" Is that a direct quote? Damn, I thought British spies wrote better that that. Seriously, your hanging all your hopes on ONE word: fixed. What does that mean in British? What does it mean to the author of the memo? Have you made any attempt to find out? Has he used it in other contexts? What did Blair say it meant? Sheesh.

Hope on my little moonbat. Maybe this one will slay the fiend.

Tob

WELL SAID BILLYBOY. NOW IF SOME LIBERALS IN WASHINGTON WOULD SHOW SOME BRASS AND TAKE CHARGE. DEATH TO THE PARTY. TOO MANY BELEIVE THAT WHO IS LEADING OUR COUNTRY, (DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN) MAKES A DAMN BIT OF DIFFERENCE. IF YOU THINK JOHN KERRY WOULD HAVE BEEN A 'GOOD THING' THEN YOU ARE A FOOL. IT WOULD JUST BE HARD TO FIND SOMEONE WHO IS WORSE THAN BUSH.

LOL!! McCain!!

Protesting wars is an example of expressed hatred?

OMGLMAO!!!!

you have collectively explained the idiocy of communicating with unbending stupidity. Thank you for the enlightenment.

This memo belongs in the Dead Memo Office, next to the other dead "smoking gun" memos. Hell, there's even less here than the Aug. 6 memo!

TO MCCAIN - YOU REALLY THINK VIETMAN WAS A GOOD IDEA? WHAT DID WE ACCOMPLISH OTHER THAN DEATH AND MISERY?

GET BACK TO THE FACTS OF THE FORUM. THE TRUTH HAS BEEN MADE PUBLIC THAT BUSH LIED TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. THE BRITISH REPORT STATES PLAINLY THAT INTELLIGENCE FROM AMERICA WAS BEING 'CREATED' TO FIT POLICY.

Liberals didn’t start this war. G Bush did and he is the one with blood on his hands. I was in Viet Nam and I read all the account in the newspaper. You weren’t there and you don’t know. I knew every lie Nixon told first hand. The Gis in Iraq know why they are not in college or at work or home with their families. The answer is G. Bush.

Hiya Tob- I was using little words to make sure ALL of the Republicans could understand- and typing fast, so if you want to use typos as an excuse to discredit me, feel free. Small technicalities are always the weapons of the small-minded.

To hinge your ENTIRE argument on the British connotation of "fixed" is pretty darned slim. Actually, it's blatantly stupid. To say that is a valid reason to not investigate further is truly the osterich approach- you must be the monkey with four hands- two on your eyes and two on your ears. I only wish you had one for your mouth!

Aaron:

Nowhere in the memo is word 'created' even used. 'Fixed', yes. 'Created', no. Two entirely different words with different meanings and connotations.

"The Gis in Iraq know why they are not in college or at work or home with their families. The answer is G. Bush."

Yet oddly, the military supports the mission. They must be fools.

/sarcasm

Tob

So, rather than refute the contents of the memo and address the fact that Bush lied, you prefer to attack Democrats, call them names and have a good laugh. Why not? It's what Republicans do, isn't it? No need for facts. We make our own reality and attack the truth. Moonbats indeed.

Stuey, what does the author of the memo say it means?

Stuey:

How is it stupid to hinge an entire arguement on the word "fixed"? Isn't that what's being done by Conyers & Co.

Rhetorical question.

Peter, i'm afraid you might need an English UK to English american dictionary to understand the simplistic definition of the word Fixed.

Or are you to busy smoking a fag?

IMPEACH BUSH NOW!

The President lied to the American people. He is in need of some discipline. People can not get away with this kind of treason. BUSH IS A LIAR, and he doesnt want to change his ways. A person who repents for his/her sins is able to get forgiveness. Bush doesn't want forgiveness, as he is a pig-headed and arrogant ruler. America is supposed to embrace democratic principles {though it is not a democracy}, and yet he doesn't care about what the people want or need. For instance, I would have liked to take care of the individuals and groups involved in 9/11, as I am a victim of the attack {My brother died on the 105th floor of WTC1}. I heard last night that there was intelligence than IRAN was involved in the planning of 9/11. If this is the case, I believe BUSH IS AN IDIOT for having taken the war to IRAQ. Maybe his dumb brain wasn't working, and he mistook IRAQ for IRAN, but PLEASE!!!

To those who defend BUSH SHIT, look at your reasoning. You just might find that you are supporting the wrong person. BUSH is selfish, doesn't care about the people, and acts belligerently. Also he can't speak worth a damn {all that learning, and he still sounds like a retarded child}.

IMPEACH BUSH NOW!!!

My fine liberal friends, you are obviously unaware that Saddam Hussein started 3 wars in the middle east, making him responsible for the deaths of about 3,000,000 people. Where was your protest then?

And here you are today pretending to worry about potentially 2,000 dead soldiers, using any possible means to bring down your country's benevolent aims.

World-wide democracy is the key to ending war. You are on the wrong side of history and will be judged quite harshly for it.

Since you don't give a damn about 3,000,000 people, one knows that your interest in your current silly protest action is NOT about saving lives. Instead, it is about undermining democracies, particular the interests of your own democracy. Just admit it so we can have a real conversation. And then tell us why?

Michael, sorry for your loss. (My uncle only escaped death at the pentagon because he was late to work that day, he was crossing the parking lot when the attack occurred). But IMPEACH BUSH NOW? I'd say their is zero chance of that unless you have video of Bush plotting the attack with Ariel Sharon, and even then you'ld need 2 witnesses. Just not going to happen.

Tob

place name here:

My Oxford dictionary will suffice. So will Merriam-Webster. To the later I defer:

Main Entry: 1fix
Pronunciation: 'fiks
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin fixus, past participle of figere to fasten; akin to Lithuanian dygti to sprout, break through
transitive senses
1 a : to make firm, stable, or stationary b : to give a permanent or final form to: as (1) : to change into a stable compound or available form (2) : to kill, harden, and preserve for microscopic study (3) : to make the image of (a photographic film) permanent by removing unused salts c : AFFIX, ATTACH
2 a : to hold or direct steadily b : to capture the attention of
3 a : to set or place definitely : ESTABLISH b : to make an accurate determination of : DISCOVER c : ASSIGN
4 : to set in order : ADJUST
5 : to get ready : PREPARE

Definition 3, 4 or 5 will suffice and support my point, either in the UK or the US.

I notice that you didn't list the number of Iraqi casualties along with that of the troops, is that because we don't have an accurate account of the wounded and dead? of course you wouldn't be saying that, as that would be a violation of the Geneva Convention.

Yet oddly, the military supports the mission. They must be fools.

/sarcasm
The military follows order or they go to jail. They are not allow to dissent because they are told not to. If you want to know what Iraq GI’s think try “Operation Truth” it is a website for GIs and by GIs.

I'm fixing to leave the office and go home! See, there's that word. What does the author say it means in this context?

Tob

"The military follows order or they go to jail."

Bill, they voted Republican (according to surveys anyway) after the war started.

Tob

Toby:

LOL! Great! It means "gettin' ready" in proper Texan-speak.

Leave it to a republican to choose the definition to best make his case without first asking for an accurate account by the original author(s).

place name here:

I said Merriam-Webster. I picked the verb that appears in the memo. Are you really going to argue with the dictionary? LOL

place name here:

Actually, you're arguing with the English language at large. 'Fixed' is used as a verb in the DSM. There's no getting around it. Sorry.

Place, what DOES the author say?

Peter, are you also a Texian? I was born in Tom Green county (a fact of which I am inordinately proud) although my people are from Miles in Runnels county.

Tob

Are you British? can you explain the defunct variations of launguage based upon active proximity of the core of the dialect in use? if so, lay it on me with your great wisdom of other nations cultures.

This whole 'conversation' tickles me.

'RightWingGuy' -- Sprinkles in some Ad Hominem Attacks: Crazy Moonbats! Hate America! Don't support the troops! Tree Huggers! Filled with Hate! Then he chunks in a few straw men for good measure. Absolutely no facts. Does not use (or appear to understand the use of) reason.

'LeftWingGuy' -- [Reasonable Argument]! [Fact]! [Appeal to Reason]! Then he gets mad and throws in some insults: Nazi! Fascist! Heil Bush! etc. etc. Then maybe another more emotional [Appeal to Reason]! Arguments fall on deaf ears.

Sorry, just an observation. It's pretty funny.
We've fallen so low in this country that this is the way our political discourse inevitably plays out.

Of course Bush & Co. were determined to attack Iraq well before they actually invaded. That's confirmed and supported by source after source. Of course Hussein had little or no WMD -- we knew that all along. That's also confirmed and supported by source after source. Wolfowitz came right out and said that WMD wasn't the primary reason for invading -- it was simply a politically expediant explanation designed to garner popular support. It was never about WMD. It was never about 9/11. We've known that all along. All along, it has been centered around the NeoConservative idea that a democratic Iraq will start a 'domino effect' in the middle east, eventually leading to peace and stability in the region. If you believe that -- great. Support the war. If you think it's a crazy fantasy then protest the war.

Look at the news over the last 2 months, though. Think about it. Little cracks are appearing all over the dam, and it's starting to leak like crazy. Make no mistake, a political sh*tstorm is coming... may be a ways off yet, but it's coming. Those of us who lean farthest to the right might want to think about getting to higher ground. Just a suggesion.

Surely he doesn't write in a defunct variation of language, although I do sometimes speak a defunct variant of yippie. (like its bean man, bean)

Tob

Well, I'm gonna have to dispel any other argument and concur with ThePuppetHead.
g'night

I'm so tired of all these liberals and their Godless
stance on the issues. Jesus taught love, but wasn't afraid to roll up his sleaves and fight people out of the temple. Iraq is a battle ground for Good (Christians) Vs Evil (The Muslims). You moonbats are afraid to admit that we need Iraq to push the cause of democracy and fight the godless, blood hungry, oil having terrorist.

Get a Bible and a clue.