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Oh, what lovely symbolism

A while ago, I discussed how I'd love to counter a neo-Nazi rally some time. The key to my idea was to have FUN with the putzes. As McGehee once said here (I've misplaced the exact citation): "Don't play with their heads. Unless they bounce really good." (Correction: "Remember, Jay -- never play with people's heads. Unless they bounce really good.")

It appears that calculated insults, mockery, and humiliation are a preferred tactic of police, too.

The Westboro Baptist Church is a truly unique cult of whackoes who manage to simultaneously embarrass the town of Westboro, Kansas, the Baptist faith, and churches in general by their simple existence. Their frothing-at-the mouth hatred of all things homosexual has evolved (or devolved) from "God hates fags" to "God hates America for not wiping out the fags," and now their latest attention-whoring tactics are to show up and celebrate the funerals of soldiers killed in Iraq.

They came to the town of Marblehead, Massachusetts recently to spew their filth at the funeral of Christopher Piper. Piper had served for ten years in the Marine Corps, left the service, then re-joined the Army and won the coveted Green Beret. And recently, he died of wounds from a roadside bomb in Afghanistan.

Boston and state police showed up in force to keep the Westboro Whackos away from the solemn service. And their tactics brought a warm glow to my heart.

They were surrounded by dozens of uniformed and plainclothes cops and blocked from the public by the Boston Police Department Mounted Unit, which strategically pointed the backs of their horses toward the group.

The only thing that would have made it even better was if those fine, noble horses were trained to crap on cue.


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Comments (44)

When will this type of nut ... (Below threshold)
LJD:

When will this type of nut job equate their love for "free speech" with making a total ass of oneself?
Personally, I think it exceptionally rude to disturb the final rights of an individual who died to protect their right to participate in this whacked-out cult. Don't any of these people work for a living?

Again, a time and a place f... (Below threshold)
goddessoftheclassroom:

Again, a time and a place for everything.

A funeral, while taking place in public, is intensely personal. It is beyond rude and cruel to show disrespect to the deceased and those who loved him.


Perhaps carefully timed feeding and diet could elict the desired effect from the horses...

Wow, these people are scary... (Below threshold)

Wow, these people are scary-crazy. I looked at their website...very disturbing. I wonder who funds their trips to funerals, graduations, and the like.

It would have been great for the horses to crap on cue...although the ACLU would have probably gotten involved if that had happened.

I think that if I saw them in person at a soldier's funeral, I probably wouldn't be able to control myself. I'd probably be arrested for assault and battery...but it would be worth it.

WOW! I have never heard of ... (Below threshold)
JEW:

WOW! I have never heard of a group like this. This is shocking. In the past I have pretty much been able to tell a lot about a group on name recognition alone. No more!

It bothers me greatly that ... (Below threshold)
cirby:

It bothers me greatly that people know so little about the practical side of malice and revenge, and that nobody in that area seems to have the faintest clue about how to "manage" these assholes.

I don't know that you could... (Below threshold)
Laura:

I don't know that you could train a horse to crap on cue, but if I'm not mistaken, a healthy horse will be crapping every 20 to 25 minutes. It's all in the timing.

The Westboro Baptist Church... (Below threshold)
j.d.:

The Westboro Baptist Church is in Topeka.

If anyone has ever read or ... (Below threshold)

If anyone has ever read or heard some of us referring disdainfully to "Phelpsies" and wondered why, the people Jay's talking about are the Phelpsies for real -- led by Fred Phelps himself.

They did the same thing in Boise not too long ago. Bunch of regular globetrotting hate-spewers, they are.

I've known about Phelps' gr... (Below threshold)
Mike:

I've known about Phelps' group for a while, but I only recently found out about their latest schtick when I read about their recent appearance in Idaho.

I once saw Phelps' granddaughter on TV (I was watching Scarborough's show for someo reason). Cute as a button, but so misguided.

I'm so keeno-oOn Bee... (Below threshold)
Governor Breck:

I'm so keeno-o
On Beefarino
What a delicious cuisine-o!
Fit for King and Queen-o!

I live in Kansas, and we've... (Below threshold)
zach:

I live in Kansas, and we've had to put up with Phelps making us look like primative hicks for many years. He was protesting at Matthew Shepard's funeral wearing a damn KU jacket, for crying out loud. He is a stain on society in general and one of the few people I would not brake for if I saw them walking across the street. As I understand it he once came to my hometown and protested at a convent. I'm not sure what he and his group were protesting, but a convent?

The guy's certifiably insane, I can tell you that much.

Sheesh, it's whackos like t... (Below threshold)

Sheesh, it's whackos like this that make the rest of us Christians look bad. Somebody needs to chill out a little and start taking his medication. Too bad he's already reproduced.

"Don't play with their hea... (Below threshold)

"Don't play with their heads. Unless they bounce really good."

That's "really well," of course.

:-)

"The only thing that would have made it even better was if those fine, noble horses were trained to crap on cue."

What a waste of perfectly good horse manure! This idea would be far from productive, as

1.) It would contaminate and render toxic any horse manure thus misused and
2.) Would only impart a sweeter aroma to these sewer rats.

BTW, "Baptist" is a term self-applied to this group. They have so little in common with normative Baptist theology as to be a slander—by their very existance—upon the worst caricature of fire-and-brimstone Bible thumping bigots possible in the most Fun-Damn-Mentalist Baptist groups around.

*sigh*

I deliberately phrased it t... (Below threshold)

I deliberately phrased it the way I did because grammar cops' heads bounce best of all. ;-p

I discovered a truly remark... (Below threshold)

I discovered a truly remarkable biography of the loathsome Phelps family that someone had written some years ago, I think for a Topeka newspaper. Do a google search for 'Addicted to Hate' and you'll find it. It is one of the most disturbing accounts of a dysfunctional family I have ever read. We're talking daily beatings with axe handles and baseball bats.

I think these people are co... (Below threshold)
Zay:

I think these people are completely justified in picketing the funeral of this soldier. This country HAS been given over to the fags. Slowly but surely, they are becoming a protected class, and these soldiers are members of a God-hating country. They are in Hell. Have a nice day!

these people are completly ... (Below threshold)
bob:

these people are completly correct

this is soooooooooooooooooo... (Below threshold)

this is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo true!!!

What the trolls fail to rea... (Below threshold)
Defense Guy:

What the trolls fail to realize is that instead of being like Jesus throwing the money lenders from the temple, Phelps and his followers are the moneylenders themselves. That they purport to do so IN the name of G-d, just makes it all the more special.

I pray they learn the error before it is too late for them. Barring that, I hope they just learn to STFU.

What!? How are they the mo... (Below threshold)
Antipas:

What!? How are they the money lenders? The money lenders were trying to make a profit off the word of God. Jesus got rid of them from his ministry. He seperated the precious from the vile. That's obviously what the Phelps are doing. Seperating themselves from the vile (fags and fag enablers). Homosexuality is completely condemned by the Bible. Read Leviticus 18 and 20, and Romans chapter 1. You all call this hate, except that it is God's hate, which is a percfect hate. They are loving their neighbour by rebuking the fags and their enablers and telling them their sins are taking them to Hell. It says that in Leviticus 19:17-18: 17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.
Get over yourselves. What do you think love thy neighbour means? Coddling them in their sins and telling them they can live any old way they want and still make it to Heaven? That is foolish talking, but it's what all of you think.

Oh, boy, we got a live one ... (Below threshold)
Jay Tea:

Oh, boy, we got a live one here.

OK, Antipas, just kindly answer me this one question: what the HELL does rejoicing in the death of a service member have to do with homosexuality? Last time I checked, the armed services were among the least accepting of gays. I put the posting under the category of "Attention Whores," because that's what you seem to be.

And if you were in Massachusetts, I hope you didn't mistake those police horses' asses for mirrors...

J.

Now is Antipas for real or ... (Below threshold)

Now is Antipas for real or a Moby?

Whatever...let me quote Dennis Prager:

From a religious perspective, religious evil is the worst form of evil ... All religious people need to vociferously and publicly condemn those who commit evil in God's name, especially members of the faiths in whose name evil is being committed ... Whatever our religion, we who are religious need to acknowledge that religion does not guarantee goodness ...

Antipas, you preach evil, if you are real, you practice the same evil as Phelps and his acolytes. You are doomed to the hell you threaten because you have broken the commandment not to take the name of God in vain --- which is about committing evil in God's name, not swearing.

Slither away.

I read recently an interest... (Below threshold)
-S-:

I read recently an interesting perspective about Phelps and his followers and that is, because they are so clearly not Christians to those of us who are (I can understand that some who are not Christians have and do mistake Phelps for a Christian simply because Phelps says he is, but to those of us who are Christians, it's very clear that Phelps is enacting a role, "role playing Christianity" for lack of a better term for his form of craziness).

Anyway, the interesting perspective I read recently, online, about Phelps and his followers suggested that Phelps was part of the homosexual "rights" movement, that he's someone moreorless deployed or used for purposes of both drumming up issues and events upon which to "protest," and that he actually serves the movement itself by posing as reason to bring and keep these issues in the media.

Because, without Phelps, there'd be not nearly as much outcry about people like Phelps. What we rarely if ever read, however, is that Phelps is nearly alone in his "movement" and that no one else pays much attention to the obviously mentally ill man, as also those who accompany him as they do, and do what they do and how.

However, if the issue is ha... (Below threshold)
-S-:

However, if the issue is hateful crazy people, just look at what many homosexuals write and do where Jerry Falwell is concerned. Or the 'ladies' from Code Pink about society in general...

Focusing on Phelps' form of nuttiness misses the bigger picture: human beings go crazy in all walks of life, all colors, shapes and behaviors.

The Westboro Baptist Church... (Below threshold)
Laird:

The Westboro Baptist Church is actually in Topeka, KS. There is no Westboro, KS. I don't agree with them any more than you do but I accept their existence as the price we pay for living in a democracy where freedom of expression is respected.

I'm certainly no religious ... (Below threshold)

I'm certainly no religious scholar but everything I've been taught about God since my childhood leads me to believe that naming one's website "God Hates Fags" is not really a valid expression of Christian doctrine.
Further, given the story of Lot's wife and the city of Sodom, if God truely hates homosexuality it doesn't seem to me that He needs the Phelpses.
I don't get out much since I retired, anybody seen destroyed cities and pillars of salt everywhere?

Peter...the point is is tha... (Below threshold)
-S-:

Peter...the point is is that as in times past, God provided words of warning for those who believed in Him as to intentions, and as to everyone else, He's already told everyone time and time again, such that, where Sodom and Gomorrha (spelled?) were concerned, God withheld complete destruction of the entire area only because he was pleaded to not destroy the animals (who were without sin, as per the pleas), and the one righteous man in the whole place.

But, God's given so many instructions and warnings over our human existence as to what actions bear what consequences, that it seems redundant to anticipate Him spelling it all out again and again and again. Meaning, everyone has knowledge by now of what God instructs, such that God's vengeance is swift when we don't heed what He requires. It may not be salt but the penalties are still as severe.

However, about that one particular event, God actually sent angels to caution and emplore with people, even after all that...and to guide the one righteous man and his family out of harm's way. It's a real story from our real past.

But you're right about that... (Below threshold)
-S-:

But you're right about that signage ("God hates....") and that it does not portend the presence of Christ. Not that God does not, however, because He does say that homosexuality is abominable to Him. An abomination, it's written. Worse in penalty from God than a mortal sin.

Follow the money. Who is fu... (Below threshold)
Dan S:

Follow the money. Who is funding these trips? Are they self-funded, or is someone else dropping large checks into the collection plate there? Be interesting to know.

They are self-funded trips.... (Below threshold)
Antipas:

They are self-funded trips. It's called work. It's called getting a job. Keep up, will you.
Now, I want you all to listen closely. You all say that the Phelps are completely wrong, and yet you will admit that it is a sin to be a fag and a dyke. Well, that means God hates them. Read this verse: Psalms 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. Iniquity means evil, or wickedness. Now read this verse: Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
So, if you are a fag/dyke, you are an abomination, and therefore you are a worker of iniquity, and therefore God hates you. Thus, God hates fags. How about you guys think a little harder.
Someone above asks what rejoicing in the death of a military member has to do with fags. I'll tell you. Most of this country accepts homosexuality. You can't deny that. You can tell by the silence of these American citizens that they accept it. When the Phelps went to picket gay-friendly schools in Massachusetts, hundreds of people counter-protested. When they picketed Billy Graham's last crusade, everyone going in to it said God hates no one, meaning God doesn't hate fags, even though the scripture clearly says He does, and so they all support it. So, God is killing these American soldiers in Iraq with the Iraqis as his tool by which he kills them, because they are fighting for a country that has united against God. Someone above also said that just because God isn't completely destroying cities that that means that he for homosexuality. Ever heard of 9/11, American soldiers dying in Iraq, the Columbia space shuttle? He doesn't have to destroy a whole city to get his point across.

Antipas,I would disa... (Below threshold)
kev-o:

Antipas,
I would disagree with your theology. You forget that the Old Testament establishes the law of God and that it shows us that everyone has broken some part of God’s law. We also know that if we break one part of the law, we’re guilty of breaking the whole of it (James 2:10 “And the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as the person who has broken all of God's laws.” NLT). So that means if you’ve ever gone speeding down the road or serial murdering, you’re as guilty as the person who has a homosexual relationship. There’s no distinction in terms of which sins are worse than others. All sins are an abomination and a rebellion against God. They all carry the same penalty.

That being said, the New Testament shows us the love he has for us and the sacrifice he made on our behalf. He didn’t excuse our sins, he dealt with them straight on. Jesus fulfilled the requirements of the law and yet he experienced the death of a criminal. He did this while we were still in sin (Romans 5:8 “But God showed his great love for us by sending Christ to die for us while we were still sinners.” NLT). He rose again on the third day destroying the power of death and sin for all those who call upon his name for salvation (Romans 6:1-11).

Therefore, when you say that God hates those who commit iniquities (sins), I don’t buy it. From all I see, I can tell that God hates sin, because he knows what it does to us and our souls. He’s deeply and passionately concerned about every person he’s made. He made a huge sacrifice so that sin could be washed away from our records… and that’s something you don’t do for people you hate. He loves human kind (John 3:16). There is an important distinction between a person and their deeds in this context.

And for the other part of your comment: this world’s messy. Everyone has some brokenness. Everyone’s got some sin in his or her life. If you can’t handle being around other sinners, then you’d be living by yourself. Instead of being a force of anger and exclusionism, why not move toward people who sin (any sin) and be a force of reconciliation? You can call a spade a spade, just as Jesus did with the woman at the well who had 5 husbands and was living with her boyfriend at the time (John 4:4-42). He didn’t dodge the subject of her sin, but you will also note that there was no condemnation of her personally. He knew where her brokenness was and dealt with that tenderly. And though Jesus’ redemption of her, an entire village was redeemed. That’s life change! And that’s the heart of God.

God doesn't hate? Well, wh... (Below threshold)
Antipas:

God doesn't hate? Well, what do these verses mean?: Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Psalms 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Deuteronomy 32:41 If I whet my glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgment; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate me.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Jeremiah 6:15- Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore they shall fall among them that fall: at the time that I visit them they shall be cast down, saith the LORD.
Ps 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God.
Those verses are very loving, are they?
Everyone is worthy of burning in Hell, because you are right, if you sin once you are guilty of all. However, that does not mean you keep sinning by being a fag. How does that make since.
You throw John 3:16 up to say God loves everyone, but let's look at it and the following verses:
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
"that whosoever believeth in him" is an appositive. That means that it describes the world that Jesus died for. So, the word "world" in there doesn't mean and can't mean Jesus died for the whole world, because only those that believe will be saved. It then says that he that doesn't believe is condemned already, so of course "world" doesn't mean everyone. What it means is all nations of men. Before, the Jews were God's chosen people, but because Jesus died, people in other nations can be saved, but only if they believe, and they can only believe if God preordained it before the foundation of the earth:
John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
So, if God preordained you to be saved, then your sins are accounted for. Those people, however, strive to not sin. They don't glory in their sins when they do sin. Homosexuals, for example, are proud of their abomination. Have you heard of gay pride parades. Those people aren't meek and striving to be sinless, but are heading right into sin. That's why God hates them. Don't try to keep saying God only hates the sin and loves the sinner. You have no biblical support. It clearly says God hates ESAU. Esau was a man. It says he hates WORKERS of iniquity, not works of iniquity. Get off it. You're going to Hell, you Bible-ignorant God-hater.

Antipas,While I don'... (Below threshold)
kev-o:

Antipas,
While I don't want to get into an argument over predestination, your theology still could use some work. The verses you cite don’t prove your thesis (Rom, Psalms, Deut, Mark, Jer, and John), even if they’re taken out
of context as you present them. They point to this: those who chose not to have a relationship with God will continue to not have a relationship with God for eternity. That’s it. They don’t support God hating individuals. If you take Calvinism to it’s logical conclusion, then you shouldn’t be angry about anything. This world is just a big chess game and you’re not in control. So why worry?

As for the predestination versus free will argument, I would say that reality is somewhere in between that we may never understand fully. There’s some part where God’s in control, but another part is that he allows us to chose between him and not him. If you say it’s totally predestination, then we are robots. If you say we’re totally free, then that discounts any intervention that God can have.

I’m glad that you recognize that continued sin is not a good thing (Romans 6:14-15 “Sin is no longer your master, for you are no longer subject to the law, which enslaves you to sin. Instead, you are free by God's grace. So since God's grace has set us free from the law, does this mean we can go on sinning? Of course not!” NLT).

My previous comments did not advocate the continuation of sinning. The thing is lives and hearts change tangibly when they’re touched by the grace of God. Then sin is less attractive. What do you think Paul experienced in his conversion (Acts 9)? He was the chief in killing Christians. The entire early church was afraid of him. Then God stopped him literally in his tracks and gave him a taste of grace. His life took a radically different path, and he became the author of 2/3 of the New Testament. I know you’ll chalk that up to predestination, but what’s to stop God from reforming the heart and live any person who sins (regardless of the sin)? Is it not possible to predestine someone who practices homosexuality now to have a changed heart in the future (just like he changed the heart of Paul)? I don’t know about you, but the God I believe in is omnipotent.

If salvation is completely predetermined, how do you know that you’ve been chosen? One sign is that the fruit of the spirit are evident in your life: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, and self control (Galatians 5:22). While I don’t know you beyond your posts here, I would hazard to guess that your life isn’t characterized by fruit of the spirit.

If you define people who are homosexuals as your enemy, then I hope you “love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you” (Matthew 5:44, NLT).

You mention gay pride parades in your post and how the participants are not meek and seeking for holiness. Why would they? When hate spews from the mouth of the church, why would they be attracted to that message? The most important lesson I’ve learned in public speaking is that you must give the audience a reason to listen to you (earning the right to be heard). What needs are you meeting with your rhetoric? Maybe the need to hear truth. But you haven’t earned the right to speak into an individual’s life. The Christian life is an amazing life to lead… ripe with adventure and relationship (not just a bunch of rules to follow). Why is it so distasteful to earn a position in an individual’s life to speak into it and then show them what an adventure God’s taken you on and how it’s changed your life? That’s attractive to people.

You can call me names to lead the argument astray, and that’s ok. I’m not bothered by it, but you maybe should be. By your interpretation of scriptures, you’re in “danger of the fires of hell” for calling me a “fool” (Matthew 5:22 NLT). ;-)

ERRRRR! Wrong! Let's look ... (Below threshold)
Antipas:

ERRRRR! Wrong! Let's look at the last verse you said. Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
First of all, you aren't a brother, you are a heathen. Second of all, I have a cause: Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. You have no light. That's my cause. I'm rebuking you. That is love. So, we do have fruits of the spirit. You think love is coddling one in his sins. Wrong. You tell them their sins are taking them to Hell. I am theologically correct: Leviticus 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. That's how you love your neighbour. The fags don't like our message because God has hardened their hearts. They have been given over to vile affections: Isaiah 6:10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Now, you say God doesn't have full control, but you say he's omnipotent (has full control). You have no Bible support for that notion. You can't CHOOSE to love God and obey his commandments. Here are my verses for my last sentence and preach of FULL predestination: John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: Matthew 6:27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?

Wow, that sure proves you wrong, now doesn't it.
John 6:65 says we can't save souls. Only God can. All we do is this: Isaiah 58:1 Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.
SPARE NOT. That means you don't be maudlin because you think the truth hurts. All we are doing is preaching the actual truth. God does not love everyone. You can't take Psalms 5:5 out of context, ninny!
I am not doing this anymore. I have supported my position exceptionally well. Titus 3:10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
You are a heretick. You are going to Hell, but have a nice day. You can keep trying to come up with asanine arguments to give God Almighty on that great and terrible day of judgement when God will drop kick you into Hell.
Anathema Maranatha,
Antipas
P.S. Loving your enemies means you don't render evil for evil (when they hurt or hit you, you don't hit them back. You don't call them railing names. You call them what they are. You tell them the truth. That their sins are taking them to Hell.

anitpas...I thank you for y... (Below threshold)
-S-:

anitpas...I thank you for your comments, as one reader here.

You've called the spade the spade, no doubt about that.

anitpas...I thank you for y... (Below threshold)
-S-:

anitpas...I thank you for your comments, as one reader here.

You've called the thing by it's rightufl name, no doubt about that.

Wizbang is making posting a... (Below threshold)
-S-:

Wizbang is making posting a complicated thing lately...sorry for the double posts, the first one resulted in an error page in my browser, I edited, it posted, then two posts result.

Error enabled for to emphasize the point made, perhaps.

kev-o: you appear to want/... (Below threshold)
-S-:

kev-o: you appear to want/demand some sort of "church" that fits your own humanistic agenda. Many people do, and thus we have all forms of groups that actually defile Judeo-Christianity oftentimes because it's suits their purposes. Homosexuality is going about accomplishing this among many in societies worldwide and that is, attempting to remake that which is wrong to be that which is not wrong. It works to suit human desires, but it defiles what we're told and instructed as to belief in the Holy Bible. Calling that telling and instruction "hate" is further evidence of what you're about, and what you represent. However cheerfully, I add.

I do think Antipas has correctly and quite exactingly defined the truth for you. Your choice at this point.

-s-,I don't believe ... (Below threshold)
kev-o:

-s-,
I don't believe I ever indicated that homosexuality was acceptable under scriptures, but my main point is that if you want to see repentance and life change for people to lead a God honoring heterosexual lifestyle, you do need to approach an individual with a bit more decorum. You and Antipas are looking on the world through a bird's eye view. And I'm going the other way... from the ground up. I'm pointing out that you can see the decline in the homosexual agenda if you use your influence to win people to Christ.

For example, there are three guys I know (lol, no, i'm not one fo them) who were involved in the homosexual lifestyle that have seen their hearts and lives changed by the power of Jesus. They're all married to amazing wives now. But for them it started with a safe person who could listen to them, pray with them, and help them walk out righteousness. Those are now three men who will be able to help other men struggling with homosexuality and see healing. Do you see what I'm saying? When you have changed enough lives, the need to push the political agenda begins to die. It's surely not an easy task or a particularly expedient method, but it's a darn good one.

Antipas, I'm curious. You s... (Below threshold)
Jay Tea:

Antipas, I'm curious. You seem pretty devoted to God's word. Do you also avoid blended fabrics and hybrid crops? Both are prohibited under Leviticus 19:19.

J.

That's called the ceremonia... (Below threshold)
Antipas:

That's called the ceremonial law, not the moral law. The ceremonial law was done away with when Christ came. It was a shadow of good things to come (Christ coming to earth): Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Colossians 2:16 ¶ Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
The ceremonial law foreshadowed Christ.
When Christ came and died, the ceremonial law vanished, but the moral law is still in effect.

As a reformed Baptist mysel... (Below threshold)

As a reformed Baptist myself, I'd like to point out that Fred Phelps, Antipas (who might be the same person) and the Westboro guys in general are considered, by reformed Baptists in general, to be fringe kooks who are marginally Christian at best. If you want to see the kind of men we do pay attention to, check out Al Mohler, John MacArthur, John Piper, or James White. None of them are soft on homosexual sin, but none of them bring open reproach on the cause of Christ with crudeness including stick-figure depictions of sodomy, nor do they claim to know the secret council of God by telling anyone who disagrees they will be damned. Jesus told the Pharisees they would seek Him and not find, but He's Jesus and He knows stuff like that. Phelps doesn't.

This site loves to make fun... (Below threshold)
Jess:

This site loves to make fun of the Phelps clan..and they're quite good at it.

here, here, and here.

I am amazed that Westboro B... (Below threshold)
Jim:

I am amazed that Westboro Baptist Church would say that God hates homosexuals.

The Bible is very clear, God does not hate the sinner, only the sin.

Do I suggest these "Christians" go read the Word of God to see how uninformed they are




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