fameone I typed as slow as I could, I hope it helps you keep up.

Oh and thanks to commenters in previous thread for the tip.

I still counsel patience. Who knows what the grand jury or the SP will report. Keep your powder dry.

Tob

I seem to remember a report from when this story first came out (several months ago) that Wilson's own bio listed his wife as working for the CIA...

On a tangentially related note, has anyone from this administration been indicted or departed 'uinder a cloud'? Maybe I haven't been watching closely enough or my memory is too selective, but no names come to mind. Are there any?

Tob

You're kidding right?

McCain would rip the other's heads off in his quest for the lens.

That was my bet Sharpie but you know he's getting older... Wilson might take him.

The only thing left is the obvious question...

You drive the stake in the argument just a bit deeper here; but I'd say some other obvious questions need to be asked - again if they were but never researched adequately.

What did Wilson know and when did he know it? What did Plame know and when did she know it? What is Wilson's connection to yellowcake, other than his tea-sipping excursion and his previous "official" trip? Does his private enterprise in the advisory/investment business impact his interests? Did he, after 1998, engage in trade or establish pathways of such in Niger? If an acting intermediary, with whom did he contract and what did he facilitate? Has he ever dealt with Cogema? Were there any other arms dealers, other than "Saddam's principal arms buyer in Paris", that he had occasion to entertain in the pre- and post- Iraq war era?

I could go on but I think you get my drift. I might qualify these to be obvious questions too. The answers may be benign... or not.

"If Chuckie Schumer, John McCain and Joe Wilson were in the same room and someone turned on a T.V. camera, which one would jump in front of it first?"

If Schumer, McCain and Wilson fell in a forest with no one around to hear them fall, would we give a damn?

I think Wilson was saying that she was not a covert agent AFTER (or from the day that) Novak blew her cover...

Therefore she was no longer a covert agent whaen the photos were taken.

Whether she was a covert agent is still seems doubtful, but I don't think his statement should be taken as an admission.

Ummm... you might try reading the actual article, big guy... in fact, read the very next thing said:
---
WILSON: My wife was not a clandestine officer the day that Bob Novak blew her identity.

BLITZER: But she hadn't been a clandestine officer for some time before that?

WILSON: That's not anything that I can talk about. And, indeed, I'll go back to what I said earlier, the CIA believed that a possible crime had been committed, and that's why they referred it to the Justice Department.
---

Then, you might try looking at the statute they're investigating under. It's quite specific about the definition of a covert agent whose identity must be protected - if they've been involved in covert operations _anytime in the last five years_, revealing their identity is a felony. Period.

Now, it would only take about ten minutes of research by the CIA personnel folks to see if:
a) Plame's work ever put her into the protected category, and
b) She'd done any of that work within the protected timeframe.

Ten minutes, Paul. And there'd be no way for either side to dispute the results of that research. If there was actually no 'meat' to this investigation, it would've ended a year ago. Somebody 'big' either committed treason, or lied under oath about what they said. Period.

Actually, the law states that the outted agent must have been a covert officer in the last 5 years.

Obviously, President Bush would not have stated that he wanted to get to the bottom of this and that if he found out someone in his administration was involved, he would take care of them, if this was not a serious matter.

Also, a special prosecutor would not have been appointed and would not have carried out a two-year investigation (much less throw a journalist in jail) if this was just a "liberal fantasy."

Smears are designed to blur the issue. They may work in politics, but not in a court of law. Whether or not someone is indicted, it is what happens in court that matters.

Easy legion, we're on the same side.

My point is that Wilson was only saying IN THAT SENTENCE that Novak "blew her identity" and that she was not a covert agent from then on because he did.

I hate to see conservatives try to run with this statement as some kind of admission, when clearly it isn't--makes us look dumb.

I think the evidence that she was not a covert agent at the time is elsewhere; but this statement from Wilson ain't it.

Ha!

Listen to guru...and update this stupid post. Wilson clearly meant that Plame was no longer clandestine after Novak outed her. Perhaps later we'll find out more about whether or not she technically fits the statute regarding her status...but until then the fact that the CIA complained and that so much time is being spent on the investigation makes it a no-brainer.

So far it's been three hours...you've either left your computer screen or you're sticking to this silly mistake (only you know if it's purposeful).

Another instance of my instincts being as sharp as a knife.

Wilson's the espionage guy, no doubt about that. Or, perhaps closer to reality is that Joseph Wilson has psychological issues that have made his espionage activities possible.

The guy could possess any worse acting skills than he does...and, anyone in Intelligence should be able to observe his deception just by watching him speak.

Typo/sorry...should have read (^^), "...the guy (Wilson) could NOT possess any worse acting skills than he does..."

He was obviously saying that his wife was no longer clandestine after Novak identified her, therefore making her not clandestine when the photos were taken. Do you think they're going to tell us about her covert activities in the years prior?

How do you remember to breath being that stupid?

How do you remember to breath being that stupid?

Mantis, it seems to me that's not the first time you've said something like that to try to insult your hosts here at Wizbang.

Nobody listens to a broken record. Come up with a new tune, will you?

I could and have easily found an abundance of blogs and comments and newsie news stuff as to Wilson's harping on suspected violations of intelligence here and there by Joseph Wilson, about the Bush Administration.

It looks more and more likely to my view that someone or ones were really, really trying to find the hook -- any hook -- upon which they could manipulate a supposed "violation" (of any law, it doesn't seem to matter what, just that they could obtain a recordable, citable "violation" by the Administration)...

All told, this is more confirmation that the Joseph Wilson/Valerie Plame issue is political espionage, more than anything.

Violations of laws notwithstanding, if and when Joseph Wilson and his wife (and/or her superiors) want to hone up to their espionage activities, a lot of us citizens would find that helpful. I'm not holding my breath.

It's sad when these huge areas of our nation's government get steered into political party affiliation and away from the work they're entrusted to do: represent the nation, not a political party.

I'm thinking that the Valerie Plame situation was one of, let me put it this way: Joseph Wilson had an objective (destroy a Republican Presidency's credibility) and he seems to have used or been assisted by his wife. Who just happened to have the ears of superiors in the CIA.

And, what the two reporters knew before they spoke with Rove remains undisclosed, undiscussed. It's a big world, and Karl Rove, I am certain, was not the beginning nor the end of thier trail of conversations. About a lot of things on any one day. Who is to NOT say that, for instance, TIME didn't already know that Valerie Plame was "a secret agent" with the CIA --- if Robert Novak knew preemptively (and he did, we now know, as many suspected a while ago -- I know I did) -- then it's more than a liklihood that TIME's lone reporter (or others) knew the same information.

And probably called Rove to get Rove's confirmation or just general information. I'm trying to think well of people, is my point, but it's more than likely that Rove was just one of a chain of people who were contacted. Not the only one, and still not the guy who even knew Plame's name when contacted at that time, nor previous knowledge that "the wife" was a secret agent.

But, to hear Wilson about this, he seems to think he got the big one. I think it's a case of having manufactured the big one out of the non-one.

legion:

"...Federal law prohibits government officials from divulging the identity of an undercover intelligence officer. But in order to bring charges, prosecutors must prove the official knew the officer was covert and nonetheless knowingly outed his or her identity..."

The issue is whether or not Karl Rove knew (1.) Valerie Plame's identity (Rove referred to a woman as "Wilson's wife" that some can -- I can understand this but I think it's reaching to try to paint Rove responsible when it's proven that he was not intellectually responsible for knowing this individual's "identity") and that Rove knew that that identified person (still questionable) was "an undercover intellgence officer" (Rove didn't, he was only aware after being told by Novak that Wilson's wife was employed by the CIA, which a lot of people are but not all of those employees are "undercover intelligence officers" nor even intelligence officers at all - AND, it's now been publicized that Valerie Plame, alghouth employed by the CIA, was not someone "under cover and/or under deep cover" as an employee of the CIA but who, rather, had "a desk job," someone who was and could be seen coming and going to her job -- not at all the behavior of anyone who was concerned about an "undercover" identity).

Spin spin as fast as you can you Nazis. Read the
actual transcript and there will be know question
that Wilson was saying that his wife's identity
as a CIA officer was blown because Novak published
his smear attack. You people are traitors. I hope
we run you out of this country when this is all over.

I'll compare the IPA of a recent troll to my blog using SBCdialup with that of Dee's any day.

Dee, Wilson's wife was not "a CIA officer." That's for starters.

If you are seeing "Nazis" in your vicinity, by all means, call your local police and tell them alllll about it.

Wow Dee, good thing you aren't a Republican, or that would be hate speech.

Gee willikers, don't you know that mean people suck?

I love the logic used far above about how no one in government does anything without realistically planning and unprejudicially investigating first.

I'd love to visit to that planet.

And how smears don't work in a court of law.

Mantis, it seems to me that's not the first time you've said something like that to try to insult your hosts here at Wizbang.

Actually, I tend to refrain from such language, and if you look back a few days you'll find that that was exactly what Paul said to me after I pointed out that his East Chicago post was bullshit. I merely cut and pasted it.

If, as the left-wing shills are alleging, Joe Wilson meant that "My wife ceased to be a clandestine officer the day that Bob Novak blew her identity," wouldn't he have phrased it that way?

Just sayin'....

RE: Dee's post (July 15, 2005 06:43 PM)

Spin spin as fast as you can you Nazis...

I guess you had a point in there somewhere, but I quit reading after reaching the term "Nazis". No one will take you seriously with such vacuous thought and reflexive grunt.

Wait. Better idea and in tones you'll recognize:

Dee you Communist shill... Ah, nevermind.

My God you are an idiot. Here is what Wilson said:

My wife was not a clandestine officer the day that Bob Novak blew her identity.

Hey dumbasses, he's saying that she was no longer clandestine because Novak blew her cover.

You people are pathetic.