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Black Kids Are Too Stupid to Learn English

[Editors Note: For the benefit of new Wizbang readers, please note that every story at Wizbang is categorized. You can see the category for each post on the byline at the bottom of each story.]

A story out today confirms what I've always known. Black kids are stupid. In fact they are too stupid to learn english.

Ebonics suggested for district

By Irma Lemus Staff Writer
SAN BERNARDINO Incorporating Ebonics into a new school policy that targets black students, the lowest-achieving group in the San Bernardino City Unified School District, may provide students a more well-rounded curriculum, said a local sociologist.

The goal of the district's policy is to improve black students' academic performance by keeping them interested in school. Compared with other racial groups in the district, black students go to college the least and have the most dropouts and suspensions.

Blacks make up the second largest racial group in the district, trailing Latinos.

A pilot of the policy, known as the Students Accumulating New Knowledge Optimizing Future Accomplishment Initiative, has been implemented at two city schools.

Mary Texeira, a sociology professor at Cal State San Bernardino, commended the San Bernardino Board of Education for approving the policy in June.

Texeira suggested that including Ebonics in the program would be beneficial for students. Ebonics, a dialect of American English that is spoken by many blacks throughout the country, was recognized as a separate language in 1996 by the Oakland school board.

"Ebonics is a different language, it's not slang as many believe,' Texeira said. "For many of these students Ebonics is their language, and it should be considered a foreign language. These students should be taught like other students who speak a foreign language.'

I finally found something that I agree with California liberals on.

Black kids are too stupid to learn english, we all know that. So why should we try to teach them? Let them stick to their own kind. If we teach them english then they'll be reading then the next thing you know they'll be taking our jobs and trying to move into our neighborhoods.

I say we keep them stupid. If not, how will I ever get anyone to pick my cotton?


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Comments (109)

So instead of trying new ta... (Below threshold)

So instead of trying new tactics to keep black kids in school and learning, let's lower the standards so they can pass. Gee, that makes sense.

Then again, ignorance is bliss, right?

I've been reading Wizbang f... (Below threshold)
Bruce:

I've been reading Wizbang for a few weeks now and I've got to say I've been surprise by the language and the attitude. I'm not talking just about what the right calls the left or what we all call the islamics, it's in every post. Here are a few phrases I've pick up in just this past week - all fair and balanced - from both sized:

I am a hegemonistic, racist, tyranical, right wing zealot
nuke the brown skinned people back into the stone age
John Kerry smells treason because he's very familiar with the scent
Do you guys use high octane or does the regular work well enough when you light those crosses?
wasting the oxygen that was intended for decent people
Leftism = Slave Morality
liberalism is dishonesty
liberalism is a mental disorder
Rove when he sold his soul the devil
Santorum and Bush and Rove = Hitler
right wing wind bags

There is also a lot of name calling:

A1 Liar
ignoramus
Hitler
fascist
chickenhawk
damned homo
hoodlums
moonbat
jackasses
The French are Pussies
Chimpy McBusHitler
wackjob
crazy wackos
enviro-wackos
idiots

Now, I know that a lot of these post are meant to be lighthearted such as “pure unadulterated horse pucky!” and “moonbat fairy tales” but I will tell you something people – little words like this show what’s inside the heart and playing with words is just a way of twisting your mind and leading it to hate – and hate speech in your arguments just plain means you’re using clichés and not your brain.

Paul, if you want blacks to “pick your cotton” then why don’t you just start your posts by saying you’re a stupid bigot.”

I know most people don’t want to hear anything from me, a liberal who is trying to have some intelligent conversations with conservatives - well congratulations, I’m gone for good, because if this is the republican mind set of this blog then it’s too sick to read.

Tear my post apart if you like – I won’t be here to read it.

Bruce made a saving roll ag... (Below threshold)
Lightwave:

Bruce made a saving roll against noticing satire.

Of course Bruce will be her... (Below threshold)
smity:

Of course Bruce will be here to read responses to his post. Otherwise why bother writing such a long screed?

"Tillman hoped the new poli... (Below threshold)

"Tillman hoped the new policy would increase the number of black students going to college and participating in advanced courses."

Colleges and advanced courses which will be taught using actual English, putting the ebonics graduates at an even greater disadvantage.

This dude can't be... (Below threshold)
lowmal:


This dude can't be serious..

Sheesh..

Bruce,I lean left ... (Below threshold)
JmaR:

Bruce,

I lean left too but I have to respond by saying: Shut up bitch. (Just kidding....we all need a little levity these days).

Bruce:"I've been r... (Below threshold)
Don:

Bruce:

"I've been reading Wizbang for a few weeks now..." and yet you haven't caught on. Try a few more weeks and report back.

That article has to be a mi... (Below threshold)
mbranca:

That article has to be a mistaken article from the onion or scrappleface, right, the mind boggles...

"Pick your cotton???" Maybe... (Below threshold)

"Pick your cotton???" Maybe you should have filed this post under "please, please, Black people, please come over here and kick my ass..." The post raises a valid point (about the uselessness of bringing Ebonics into the classroom), but why not just make the argument straight out?

Besides, everybody knows that these days, cotton is picked by the Mexicans (only a joke -- please don't spam).

Bruce has obviously never b... (Below threshold)

Bruce has obviously never been to DailyKos.

Hey Bruce, here is a clue: the difference between Wizband and Kos is, at Kos they really believe those epithets.

Hmmm."Now, I know ... (Below threshold)
ed:

Hmmm.

"Now, I know that a lot of these post are meant to be lighthearted ..."

Sarcasm is dead.

Personally ...

"I am a hegemonistic, racist, tyranical, right wing zealot" who likes to "nuke the brown skinned people back into the stone age", and thinks that "John Kerry smells treason because he's very familiar with the scent". But for some reason I always get asked "Do you guys use high octane or does the regular work well enough when you light those crosses?" at the 7-11. Personally I think who ask that are "wasting the oxygen that was intended for decent people". But hey, "Leftism = Slave Morality", which is just another way of saying "liberalism is dishonesty". I hate to discuss philosophy though because I always end up thinking "liberalism is a mental disorder".

How about that Rove eh? I sure hope the prices were good for "Rove when he sold his soul the devil". I suppose it doesn't matter since most lefties think "Santorum and Bush and Rove = Hitler". Man it must get kinda crowded in those pants with all three in there. But we all know that lefties think Republicans are "right wing wind bags". Still I'd rather be that then Al "
A1 Liar" Franken.

There's a real serious problem lefties and their collective status as an "ignoramus". C'mon who really believes Bush is "Hitler"? And a "fascist"? That's just as over the top as that "chickenhawk" meme the lefties are pushing.

And how about all those gay organizations outing gay Republicans? They might as well come out and yell "damned homo" at them. The hypocritical "hoodlums" of the "moonbat" left. Seriously now. What "jackasses".

Though I guess it's better to be a member of the American left than French. At least the American lefties are willing to do a little debating while "The French are Pussies". Still they need to come up with a better argument than "Chimpy McBusHitler". Everytime they go into that schtick I just think they're a "wackjob" or a bunch of "crazy wackos".

And they need to get off that Kyoto Treaty thing the "enviro-wackos". The damn thing is so discredited that whenever the left starts going on about it, it just makes them look like "idiots".

...

hehehehe. :)

Bruce proves once again tha... (Below threshold)

Bruce proves once again that people who understand neither humor nor sarcasm still walk the earth.

Brucie must be fun at parties....

Okay, yeah, but the chicken... (Below threshold)

Okay, yeah, but the chickenhawk thing is true.

Tone it down a bit! Jesus.... (Below threshold)
Craig:

Tone it down a bit! Jesus. If this is meant to be satire, make it a little more obvious. If not, wtf dude?

Seriously, be VERY careful with sarcasm. This does not sound sarcastic at all.

Please consider, you know, taking some of this back.

I knew I'd get one dumb one... (Below threshold)
Paul:

I knew I'd get one dumb one to bite.

Bruce got one thing right, ... (Below threshold)
bullwinkle:

Bruce got one thing right, liberalism IS dishonesty. About the ebonics, that's liberalism at it's shining best, telling blacks that can never succeed without help from liberals and telling blacks they cannot possibly compete so there's no sense in trying. That's every bit as racist as someone asking, "who is going to pick our cotton?" and asking it seriously.

I've been a regular reader ... (Below threshold)
sissoed:

I've been a regular reader here for months and I get the satire the blog often uses, but the beginning of this particular post struck me as being so close to the words a real racist site might use, that I can understand why the other commenter was concerned -- if you put the "pick my cotton" reference near the top it would make the satire clear.

Proving yet another of McGe... (Below threshold)

Proving yet another of McGehee's Laws: "Anyone can be funny, but people with no sense of humor are hilarious."

[As a Proud Black Man livin... (Below threshold)
BeeJiggity:

[As a Proud Black Man living in Chicago, I must say that "Bruce" has got to be a moon batty ignoramus to miss the obvious.]

We all know that you good whites has been lettin' us live here in yo' country fo' a might long time, and Only the neo-cons, (and neo-coons like myself) could even consider supporting Ebonics for geddo chil'ren. It's da only thang that will hep our kids out.

Well suh, I mus rememba. There's always Midnight Basketball. That could hep us too. Lawdee me.

I's fixin'a roll a phat blunt. peece.

sissoedWe label ou... (Below threshold)
Paul:

sissoed

We label our posts here in a category. I clearly filed it under "satire."

I could have made the satire more clear but then it's not good satire is it? Regular readers knew from the headline it was satire. The rest could figure it out quick enough.

Putting the "cotton line" at the top would be like telling a joke starting with the punch-line. Everyone would have known it was a joke but it would have lost something.

I don't know how many other... (Below threshold)

I don't know how many other commenters are Black on this thread, but I am, and when I read the post I was pissed (though I figured the guy couldn't be serious), right through to the end, when I finally noticed the "filed under satire" link. I'm sure Paul's point was to get a reaction and get people talking about the issue. To be honest, I don't think he succeeded since all we're talking about is whether the post itself was racist. That's too bad, because this IS a legit topic (and one one which I, an evil, terrorist-coddling, Vietnam rejectionist, "moonbat" Democrat, happen to agree with Paul).

>Tone it down a bit! Jesus.... (Below threshold)
Paul:

>Tone it down a bit! Jesus. If this is meant to be satire, make it a little more obvious. If not, wtf dude?

>Seriously, be VERY careful with sarcasm. This does not sound sarcastic at all.

>Please consider, you know, taking some of this back.
===========

Craig do you need a map and a compass?

Wow, some of y'all get real... (Below threshold)

Wow, some of y'all get real pissy when they take away your meds.

hmmmmmmmmmmm>To be... (Below threshold)
Paul:

hmmmmmmmmmmm

>To be honest, I don't think he succeeded since all we're talking about is whether the post itself was racist.

I dunno reidblog, some guy who seemed to have a sense of humor said this. Don't tell me that you missed it.

And Frankly Reid, this top ... (Below threshold)
Paul:

And Frankly Reid, this top probably got about 10 more posts already than if I played it straight. Ebonics is hardy hot blogosphere fodder in 2005.

My god, this article made m... (Below threshold)
Sophie:

My god, this article made my day. ^^

Bruce said:"..... (Below threshold)

Bruce said:
"...me, a liberal who is trying to have some intelligent conversations with conservatives..."

In light of the rest of his post, he may as well have claimed to be Santa Claus.

Paul, your post was obviously satirical in nature. Anyone who couldn't figure that out isn't worth answering. What's sad is that you've articulated the feelings of those who seek to keep blacks oppressed, while claiming to support and help them.

So who publishes their gram... (Below threshold)
toad:

So who publishes their grammar books? What University can I attend to study ancient Ebonics? Where can I buy an English to Ebonics translation dictionary, in fact where can I buy an Ebonics dictionary, where can I meet someone over the age of 30 who speaks Ebonics?

BeeJiggity, do you write fo... (Below threshold)
Phil Smith:

BeeJiggity, do you write for Chappelle? Because "neo-coon" is about the funniest damn thing I've read in a while.

Are there going to be class... (Below threshold)
joe:

Are there going to be classes in speaking honkonics in Mississippi?

Poor taste.... (Below threshold)
Mrs. Davis:

Poor taste.

Shouldn't it be Ebonese. O... (Below threshold)

Shouldn't it be Ebonese. Or Ebonish?

I've thus far only read the... (Below threshold)
Josh Davenport:

I've thus far only read the first two comments...


Bruce, I think may be you misunderstood the tone.

I dunno Mrs Davis, I think ... (Below threshold)
Paul:

I dunno Mrs Davis, I think liberals tell black children they are too stupid to learn is in far worse taste than my mocking the liberals for it.

If anyone can't figure out ... (Below threshold)
OC Chuck:

If anyone can't figure out from the title that this is satire, then they must be a liberal. (How's that for name calling?)

An interesting thing to note on the main topic is that, from my observation, "ebonics" didn't come from an established language. It appears to be something created or evolved for the purpose of being stylized or cool - coming up with strange or contradictory expressions. When I was a kid, good things were 'bad.' Now they are 'phat.' So why encourage that in schools which should be trying to integrate children into society?

At least "spanglish" can be explained as a crossing of languages.

Paul, Actually, yo... (Below threshold)
Bruce:

Paul,

Actually, you took the bait, along with several others who responded to my post.

“smity” was right, I was reading, I jumped your post. I’ve been planning this post for a week or so, wanting to see what the responses would be. Yours was a perfect example “I knew I'd get one dumb one to bite.” The belittling of your opponents argument, not by reason, but by insult. Just look at the language in the responses:

Shut up bitch
Brucie must be fun at parties....
the chickenhawk thing is true
Wow, some of y'all get real pissy when they take away your meds
he may as well have claimed to be Santa Claus

And then there’s the typical post by bullwinkle – “liberalism IS dishonesty”

But the problem is more than just the words it’s the attitude. BeeJiggity’s response can never be taken as funny – it is just too insulting. And Ed’s posts… I won’t go into it.

My point is that the language and attitude here is not satire, it’s caustic – and it leads to poor arguments, less thought, and potentially hate.

Several people said that I missed the sarcasm. Interesting. I might point out that I have a masters degree in Literature and have read more Swift, Twain, and Voltaire than I care to think about. I should also point out that I’m with the office of communications for the national headquarters of a major religious denomination, so I think I know something about the use of language and satire.

If you want to have a conversation, come back, but “smity” was wrong about one thing. I will be leaving after this conversation – I just don’t think it’s worth the effort of wadding through the attitude on this blog.

I suppose someone could "wa... (Below threshold)
Bruce:

I suppose someone could "wad" though an attitude - but of course I meant "wade."

OC Chuck.I checked... (Below threshold)
Josh Davenport:

OC Chuck.

I checked out the ebonics thing when the notion first came out, and the linguists are correct.

There is a formal syntax. It's not unstructured.

Having said that, I don't like the San Bernardino idea. I understand Reid's http://blog.reidreport.com/ points, but disagree.

ESOL tools are used when the student has linguistic skills in the native language, and some of those skills are mapped to the equivalent in English.

Ebonics is structured enough to do this. However, the primary reason this is done at all is because the students don't understand enough english to learn directly.

That is not the case with Ebonics.

If I have misrepresented something, some let me know. I'm no expert on ESOL.

Wonderful! If I were to s... (Below threshold)
JohnW:

Wonderful! If I were to suggest that a secret cabal of KKK’ers were quietly working behind the scenes to ensure that black Americans are forever left in low-paying zero-advancement jobs (if they have jobs at all) by presenting Ebonics as some sort of “natural language” for blacks, promoting pro-drug, pro-crime & misogynistic rap lyrics & exalting the pseudo-thug or thug wannabee rappers as role models, denigrating academic achievement as “acting white”, focus black youths on careers as rappers, drug dealers and pimps instead of doctors, engineers and teachers…

Well, people would think I was a crazy conspiracy-theory-addled moonbat, wouldn’t they? So why does it look so much like that’s just what’s happening??????

"When I was a kid, good thi... (Below threshold)
frameone:

"When I was a kid, good things were 'bad.' Now they are 'phat.' So why encourage that in schools which should be trying to integrate children into society?"

Clearly OC Chuck and probably others have no idea what African American Vernacular English really is if this is his example of it.

For more information: http://www.cal.org/ebonics/

That said, Paul gets himself all worked up into a satirical lather over what exactly? I'd have to say either failing to read the entirety of the article he linked to:

"Len Cooper, who is coordinating the pilot program at the two city schools, said San Bernardino district officials do not plan to incorporate Ebonics into the program.

"Because Ebonics can have a negative stigma, we're not focusing on that,' Cooper said. "We are affirming and recognizing Ebonics through supplemental reading books (for students).'

Beginning in the 2005-06 school year, teachers will receive training on black culture and customs. District curriculum will now include information on the historical, cultural and social impact of blacks in society. Although the program is aimed at black students, other students can choose to participate."

"Paul,Actually, yo... (Below threshold)
Josh Davenport:

"Paul,

Actually, you took the bait, along with several others who responded to my post."

WOW! This guys better than Rove!

If Texeira wants these Ebon... (Below threshold)
TJ:

If Texeira wants these Ebonics-speaking students "taught like other students who speak a foreign language," then they'll be put into total-emersion ENGLISH-ONLY classes until they're fluent (voters dismantled bilingual education in 1998 with Proposition 227). Now THAT could be useful.

Dag nabbit Bruce, now you'v... (Below threshold)
BeeJiggity:

Dag nabbit Bruce, now you've done it.

You can disagree with my opinion and tout your credentials, but I bet you couldn't crack a joke if it was laid by a chicken!

My degree is only an undergrad in Communications, but I've watched months on end worth of SNL, Soap, Something about Mary, and yes, Chappele Show. Hands down. That schtuff was funny. "Never taken as funny.." You're lucky we're not in person. I might introduce your toes to the Bass-o-matic 2005!

If you can't see the comedy, maybe you should stick to analysis of the classics.

Here is the arguement without the hate. (aka "humor" for the conservatives)

Ebonics does not exist.
Wasting time teaching it to my kids will not help them.
School boards who espouse it should be thrown out and replaced.


Bland enough for you?

(Thank you, Phil Smith. I'm flattered. ...really)

Nice attempted save Bruce. ... (Below threshold)
Paul:

Nice attempted save Bruce. I'm not buying it -- but nice try.

BeeJiggit, First o... (Below threshold)
Bruce:

BeeJiggit,

First of all I apologize. As I was writing “BeeJiggity’s response can never be taken as funny” I was thinking, - “this might actually work when performed,” but I failed to say that. I should have said, I don’t think it can work in print, in this context.

You said: “but I bet you couldn't crack a joke if…” I’ll let out another secret about myself, although I am somewhat reluctant. I’ve performed with a medieval street troop for about twenty years now… as their crowd barker and fool. It’s true, and I am considered very funny by lots of people. I’m sure some people here will run with that. Here, I’ll throw you a joke: bullwinkle is full of bitter gall – do you think he’ll get the pun and hate me for it?

Paul, Then you don... (Below threshold)
Bruce:

Paul,

Then you don't want to talk?

Has frameone ever agreed wi... (Below threshold)

Has frameone ever agreed with anyone on anything? It must be wonderful to have such a mission in life as his.

I have to say that as Reid put it, if ebonics is considered in a class where proper English is being taught, then okay. If it's to get them "on track". But if we're using it in math, science and other classes, I'll give it a resounding rejection. In that case it's only being perpetuated. I don't care if it comes from west Africa or if it's a spin off of some Creloe English; to allow its use in everyday business as these kids grow up only breeds cause for more discrimination against them. Why should the rest of the country have to learn another language to accomodate a small minority?

I don't speak Ebonics or even Spanish. But, I can guarantee you one thing. If I were in "Ebonia" or Spain, Id be learning their language. If they want to speak that way at home, I don't care. But, out here in the real world it's English, proper American English.

Paul is right.

Paul, By not answe... (Below threshold)
Bruce:

Paul,

By not answering my post seriously you make a point for me. Your rhetorical tactic is to weaken the message by belittling the messenger. It’s a common tactic in argument – attack the messenger and the message dies. But the topic I brought up is not dead, the anger smolders inside all those who misuse language for their own status. You refuse to consider the idea that you were baited – that only makes your argument stronger in your mind.

Na Bruce- I don't want to t... (Below threshold)
Paul:

Na Bruce- I don't want to talk to you.

You are just so much smarter and much more educated than me I don't think I could hardly hold up my end of the conversation... But it is comforting to know you recognize satire when you see.

You do recognize satire don't you?

A great post. You said what... (Below threshold)
scrapiron:

A great post. You said what everyone knows, but used comedy in the right places. Mr Cosby will be proud of you. The educators lowering the standard of learning only proved that the educators are stupid. Can't speak English, then prepare to work at McDonalds, deal drugs (short life) or draw welfare the rest of your life.

Would hillbilly language be... (Below threshold)
joe:

Would hillbilly language be called "honkophonics"? Or "crackerphonics"?

Decisions, decisions..........

"Ebonics" is an English dia... (Below threshold)
Mark Wilson:

"Ebonics" is an English dialect. It most likely derives from "working class" dialects in Great Britain. There is little linguistic evidence that the grammar of the dialect derives from African languages. See John McWhorter's work for some background.

frameone send me email.... (Below threshold)
Paul:

frameone send me email.

Bruce,Shouldn't it... (Below threshold)
Paul:

Bruce,

Shouldn't it be "medieval street troupe" rather than "medieval street troop", or are you in some sort of para-military group?

Bruce, are you saying the i... (Below threshold)
bullwinkle:

Bruce, are you saying the it's true when liberals tell blacks they can never succeed without the help of liberals? That's what they say, unless you agree it's true that one very important point in proving that liberalism is dishonest.

Bruce:I stumbled acr... (Below threshold)
Moon Monkey:

Bruce:
I stumbled across this thread and actually took the time to re-read your commentary. The subject of Ebonics aside,and respecting your credentials...I can only conclude that you simply must get back on your Meds! I think that with some additional therapy you could make it back. Don't give up just because Paul thinks you watch too much "Wapner". What the hell does he know anyway? And don't let the rest of these guys get to you. Quietly step away from the railing,forget about jumping and seek a higher wisdom...Larry,Curly and Moe send their best!
I think that two more treatments should be enough to get you out by Christmas. Nyuk,nyuk,nyuk...

Bruce:"Your rhe... (Below threshold)
Inquiring:

Bruce:

"Your rhetorical tactic is to weaken the message by belittling the messenger. It’s a common tactic in argument – attack the messenger and the message dies.

Hello, Pot? This is Kettle. You're black.

In your very first post that is what you did, attacked the messenger. And you continue to with "But the topic I brought up is not dead, the anger smolders inside all those who misuse language for their own status."

So, you are trying to discredit all posters who use sarcasm and/or satire that you do not appreciate by claiming they are all secretly, or not secretly angry, thus lessening whatever point they might have been making using such language.

Admittedly, maybe you are not intending that to be the effect, but you are not making it clear, instead using blanket attacks about the words people used.

Oops! That "troop" vs. "tro... (Below threshold)
smitty:

Oops! That "troop" vs. "troupe" post belongs to me,
not Paul. Sorry.

Let me get this straight. B... (Below threshold)

Let me get this straight. Bruce 'pretends' not to get that sarcasm of the post so he can "bait" us into insulting him for not getting it.

I'm with you Paul, I think Bruce is just simply too smart for us, his having a masters degree in Literature and all.

Jeepers. I wish I was that smart

After much taunting and set... (Below threshold)
AnonymousDrivel:

After much taunting and setting of traps and gnashing of teeth and slammin' da' flim-flam... and... and... and, uh, doin' the hokey-pokey (or is it pokin'-da'-homey?), let me just conclude with a simple truth in plain English:

Ebonics bad, English gud.

I be restin' ma' case. Gud day, suh.

Bullwinkle, I thin... (Below threshold)
Bruce:

Bullwinkle,

I think you missed the point of my post – I didn’t really address that subject at all.

Smitty,

Opps! Sorry for the typo. Imagine, a para-military liberal? What kind of camouflage would I wear?

Inquiring,

You make a good point. I’d hoped to discuss the words issue. I think the first statement “rhetorical tactic…” is fair. I was trying to point out in my first post that both liberal and conservatives have used words in this way – it’s actually a fairly even use on Wizbang.

On the second statement, I’ll concede some ground and say two things: (1) if the shoe fits, were it (2) I am human and I have worn the shoe. In fact part of the reason I started reading Wizbang was to try and open my mind to conservative arguments. And that should be common knowledge about us liberals, our minds are so open they are often falling out. Sorry if some of that smoldering fell out. It takes thought to use written messages diplomatically – blogs make me want to answer too quickly.

I know you had to do it, Pa... (Below threshold)
AnonymousDrivel:

I know you had to do it, Paul, but a preemptory disclaimer? What's the blog world coming to? Or should I type, "to what is the blog world coming?" Let me consult the Ebonics to English - Second Edition (A Utilitarian Handbook to Escape the Shackles of Street Lingo) to confirm diagramming of prepositional statements.

As I say in <a href="http:/... (Below threshold)

As I say in this post on the same subject:

"It is a program proposed by the Left to keep African-Americans and other ethnic groups dependent on a welfare-state. By not preparing them to have the ability to achieve success on their own, Democrats and liberals will have another generation of dependent ethnic groups who will be their constituency.

If only African-Americans and other ethnic groups would realize that these so-called multicultural proprams work to their economic and cultural disadvantage and prevent their children from success in the American culture. Liberals need "victims" who will support them when they promise to bring them government benefits. Independent and economically successful minorities don't need liberals. Figure it out, folks."

I think it's fair to say Pa... (Below threshold)
JimK:

I think it's fair to say Paul and I don't get along. That's germane to this next part, because you can count on my criticism not stemming from a sense of loyalty.

BRUCE, YOU'RE A MORON. I mean a real class A certified idiot. Old-school stupid, the kind that they used to keep you locked up in an attic for being.

The fact that you missed the satircal nature of the post was bad enough. It marked you as a frigging dunce, but still...I'll let it slide because who knows, maybe you're legally retarded or you don't "get comedy." (imagine air quotes here)

No, Bruce, my fine fellow, what marks you as an extra-special kind of retard is that you made a big show about leaving...then stayed...then read many a posts pointing out the satirical nature of Paul's post...then posted again, still not getting it...then stayed some more.

So, to sum up: You have no ability to recognize satire and a valid piece of social commentary, you're a liar who can't stick to his word and you have trouble admitting when you're wrong.

Wait a minute...are you in Congress?

I'm sure there are some Hil... (Below threshold)

I'm sure there are some Hillarys in the group who do want to be at the helm of a certain status quo, but I think the ebonics bid is meant to appease. It's a fact that black kids in this district are failing; that must mean someone is screwing up. Before too much finger-pointing is done, Texeira and friends can swoop in to save the day, and enjoy a certain career boost for changing an entire curriculum to acknowledge something as a language, which clearly isn't. If this gets through, there'll be at least a decade before anyone tries to get back on track with some real solutions.

I won’t be here to read ... (Below threshold)
snowballs:

I won’t be here to read it.

That's the entire problem, no matter what language you speak.

I take it all back, Paul. H... (Below threshold)

I take it all back, Paul. Helluva thread. I think you wound up getting something concrete out of it, if only to show how touchy we still are in this country about anything racial, meaning the issue hasn't fully been dealt with ... bottom line, if Dave Chappelle says the "N" word or jokes about picking cotton, it's funny. If you say it, you're liable to catch a beat-down...

Back on the topic at hand, FloridaOyster, I agree with you, and Davenport I think we kind of agree too -- if using ESOL-style methods will get Black inner city kids who aren't English-proficient up to speed, then I'm all for it. Now, training Mr. Dimblesby to teach chemistry using street slang? Shoot me now.

I sit on the board of an inner city charter middle school (not to get biographical), and I can testify that something needs to be done, if only to convince these kids that there's nothing wrong with speaking properly, and to wean them off the habit of using Ebonics around the non-"ebonicized" ... (rap lyrics, yes, job interview, noooooo).

As for Bruce, I feel bad for you, man, you've taken a beating on this thread -- it can be tough for non-conservatives 'round here. And the medieval troupe thing? Not your best play, dog.

Anyway, gotta go put a disclaimer on my "kiss my ass" post so I don't offend Paul any further.

Good thread, man.

I missed the point of your ... (Below threshold)
bullwinkle:

I missed the point of your post? I could have sworn you were implying i was wrong to say that liberalism is dishonesty, I guess you were agreeing with me. See what happens when you take what a liberal says and acept it on face value? So now that wev'e both agreed that liberalism is outright dishonesty how do you justify being a dishonest liberal? Is it similar the same way you justify liberalism's "compassion" which we both know is racism disguised as good works? You know what I mean, like doing everything in your power to make minorities believe they are somehow incapable of functioning so they will be a steady source of dependent, albeit reliable votes to keep liberals in office? It's not really about who'll pick the cotton, it's about who will go to the polls and how to keep them going.

Ebonics is just another gim... (Below threshold)
smitty:

Ebonics is just another gimmick coming out of university schools of education. They periodically fabricate new theories that, when implemented, always result in uneducated children (but they feel good about themselves) Ebonics is an intellectual scam that will be ineffectual in aiding black children. The real beneficiaries will be the education bureaucracy and the NEA; essentially, it's a jobs program for marginal teachers.

AnonymousDrivel, the discla... (Below threshold)

AnonymousDrivel, the disclaimer at the top is actually from me. Not that I suspect regular readers will miss the Satire category link, but sometimes we get a little short sighted about where Wizbang material gets excerpted. Someone coming from a site like Google News might not be hip to the peculiarities of the blogosphere. That weakly worded warning is for there (and others like them) benefit.

Come on Paul, admit it, you... (Below threshold)

Come on Paul, admit it, you wrote this post with every intention of keeping the comments open.

Satire, maybe, but definite... (Below threshold)

Satire, maybe, but definitely designed to go over the heads of people who want to get in and do some Professor-bashing.

Ah, Ebonics. I remember when Rush went nuts over that, perhaps a decade ago.

Of course neither he, nor submitter, nor the people at wizbang know what Ebonics is.

I'll put up an example, even though no one else will read or comment on this thread:

West African languages (and Chinese, among others) employ a device called the copula, in which the be verb is left out when it isn't really necessary. One very common sentence pattern that results is called the "topic-comment" sentence.

In Chinese, you can say "John and Mary happy." Any Chinese speaker will know there's an 'understood' Be-verb in there. In English, we can leave out the preposition in some prepositional phrases and still have a grammatical sentence, because we understand it to be there, so this isn't such a foreign idea.

Now, in Ebonics, you teach Standard American English by comparing sentences in AAVE and SAE. You can take the topic-comment sentence:

"My sister, she tall"

And write that on the board next to:

"My sister is tall."

Thus, you have a comparison between the home dialect and the one you need to speak during the job interview.

Of course, the Liberal Bashing industry had to turn this into a political thing, which was convenient for it since their calculated misunderstanding of it carries a subtext of racism, which in turn appealed to Dittoheads.

" 'At every step we will se... (Below threshold)

" 'At every step we will see positive results,' Tillman said.

Tillman hoped the new policy would increase the number of black students going to college and participating in advanced courses."

This strikes me as remarkably obtuse. It'll encourage them to take "advanced courses"? "Advanced courses" in WHAT? Last time I checked, they STILL only teaching ENGLISH on college campuses, and don't have translators for Ebonics available. It sets them right up for failure later - they're only moving the goalposts out of THEIR way and into someone else's back yard. Ebonics is not a GD foreign language, it only SOUNDS foreign because one word changes meanings six times a week, so the rest of us have to scratch our heads about what it may mean today.

This is educators not even trying to educate any more - its just rolling over and kicking their feet up in the air because a bunch of kids are so damned stubborn that they only have to wait people out before they lower the bar for them. Matter of fact, at this rate, the "bar" as it were is going to be buried way below ground and we'll STILL hear about how we'll need to lower it further. This kind of idea is irresponsible and immature, and will in all likelihood promote immaturity and irresponsibility that will be even harder to overcome in adulthood.

Maybe later I'll return and... (Below threshold)
-S-:

Maybe later I'll return and try to read through seventy-five previous comments here but one point I've wanted to express is that the industry of rap music is something that some blacks miss as being the exploitative work that it is: ensures a bad impression by many about who blacks are, and is driven by...let's see...white billionaires with some black millionaire proteges in development.

I've often used actual English in communications and seen the strange expressions on some people's faces and later realized that they were receiving the terminology from an "ebonic" and/or rap definition and not even aware of what the word/s mean in the real language of English...

Such is the damage done to millions by the stupidity of some.

For instance, I said once to someone of Polynesian heritage/racial heritage, about a business relationship, "can we put a cap on the process?" and the guy retaliated in horror, saying I was suggesting that someone be killed.

And, of even more horrorible outrage, I explained, "PUT A CAP ON THE PROCESS, CAPSULIZE THE PROCESS AND BRING ABOUT A CONCLUSION TO THE PROCESS INVOLVED..."

The guy -- an adult in business -- had never heard that expression before ("to capsulize" something, meaning, to conclude a process)...but had only ever before heard the rapper/ghetto expression of "capping" someone to mean "killing" someone.

That's just the beginning...happens more often lately, what with more adults having grown up with a bastardized understanding of what language is...many of whom are not even fluent in English in the U.S.

O.K., now having both retur... (Below threshold)
-S-:

O.K., now having both returned later and begun reading through the earlier commments...

I was on the verge of writing that I found some of what Bruce wrote as noteworthy right up until he pulled that "I have an important position" thing...meaning, Bruce, if you cannot interact on an interpersonal level, retreating into some "higher authority" stance only dilutes your credibility.

I'm just saying, I recognize that some people are well educated (I am, also), have ethical credentials, so to speak, all that, but, for starters, you don't provide your own site URL (no one can look into who you are for purposes of engaging in a conversation with you, or for purposes of familiarizing themselves with who you are, what ideology you represent) (it matters as to credibility), and, to withdraw from a discussion does not an announcement require (I wonder when people announce they're "leaving" a discussion, what it is they are actually expressing by way of that).

I tend to agree with you from a point of newly introduced to Wizbang (I am not, but what I express here is that I can understand your initial recoiling based upon what you describe as being new to visit here). It's not the fault of the site, however, allow me to express that much.

Some behaviors by our American left is so ludicrous (this Ebonic thing is just that) as to leave little room otherwise than to resort to parody or even, worse, sarcasm (among my least favored perspectives in language). Otherwise, we'd actually be writing out a critique about an entirely ridiculous premise now become application: a public school district incorporating a non-language, a psychological manifestation of deconstruction of communications toward a nonconstructive end (Ebonics itself is a process by which language is discouraged to be acquired unless it is for a futile purpose -- to not communicate, much less effectively or to a higher standard).

Trying to discuss why the school district would ever arrive at such a monstrous contradiction of their purpose is, well, seems the greater sarcasm involved in the bigger picture perspective, than does Paul's meager sacrasm on a blog about it.

The people who can't fathom... (Below threshold)

The people who can't fathom Paul's satire are the same people who think the word "niggardly" is a racial slur.

I spent the whole of my you... (Below threshold)
Lew Clark:

I spent the whole of my youth in Texas. So of course at home we spoke Texan. But in the public schools, in Texas, supported by taxes paid by Texans, we had to learn to speak English. It was so hard for me. Especially in the early grades, because I had never heard anyone speak English. Except for Monty Python and the Beatles, and I couldn't understand half of what they said. But it wsa for my own good. Because, as an adult, I left Texas and went to places where they only spoke English. Some of those places no one spoke or understood Texan. Because I was on their turf, I couldn't point out their ignorance for not understanding a more modern and improved language.
The same will happen to these kids. Sure, these kids will be ok as long as there surrounded by those who speak their native tongue. But what happens if they move to some forign country like Des Moines where they only speak English, like I did. They will be at such a disadvantage.

Lew Clark: no one's referr... (Below threshold)
-S-:

Lew Clark: no one's referring to regional accents and/or regional dialects of English, but to something called "Ebonics" that is not a language, not a regional dialect and is a distortion of the English language (not an accent while communicating in English) for purposes of confusing -- often hiding intent -- and is an entirely psychological problem. Used to discourage learning, and often, encourage deception.

However, I am guessing -- a wild guess, if I may -- that your comments aren't sincere. Texas doesn't have another language but an accent, a pronunciation, in using English, just as does New Jersey, Georgia, wherever. Same language, however, different accents...as with areas in the U.K., same principle: same language, different regional accents.

Colloquialisms are not equivalent with Ebonics, are not nonsensical communications, as are Ebonics...

No comparison with the concepts you suggest.

I haven't read the entire t... (Below threshold)
ClobberGirl:

I haven't read the entire thread, but I see two issues here: 1) Were Paul's statements inappropriate, satire or not, and 2) What about these teaching-Ebonics-instead-of-English proposals?

A resounding "no" to the first issue. Paul's satire was barbed but drove his point home perfectly.

I grew up in a considerably white state and attended a high school with a sizable black population. I had one teacher who was forever trying to nail white students for what he perceived as racism against blacks. One day I was being teased by about five black students during class, in perfect earshot of the teacher. I finally shot back a completely non-racist retort. Guess who got pulled out into the hallway and chastized for racism? I'll give you a hint, it wasn't the five black students making fun of the lone white girl.

The point being, there are people in this country (mostly Democrats) who try hard to cry "racism" where there is none. If that's you, then you probably found Paul's remarks terribly offensive. The rest of us found them damn funny--kudos to Paul.

Oh, and would the people who found Paul's remarks offensive be just as offended if a black person did a satirical, pseudo-racist piece on white kids being dumb based on a story about an educational proposal obviously designed to pander to white students and make them learn less? Did Howard Dean's comments about blacks making up the hotel staff make you just as angry? I won't wait up.

For the second issue, the suggestion that blacks should be taught Ebonics instead of traditional English is the most idiotic suggestion I've heard in a long time. One, let's say for the sake of argument that Ebonics is a non-English language rather than English slang. If so, then blacks should be enrolled in an English as a Second Language course--you know, like the other foreign-language speaking students are--where they would still be taught standard English.

But if they are taught Ebonics in place of English, which is what is being proposed, how exactly is that supposed to help them after high school? The colleges they go to and the jobs they apply for will require them to speak a dialect of English that everyone can understand. Their college professors will require them to write 10-20 page essays in real English.

This proposed Ebonics program might encourage black kids to stay in high school by dumbing things down for them, but after that it will keep them in dead-end jobs and dropping out of college. It won't prepare them to make it in life in the long run, which is what every high school student really needs.

RE: I_am_Joe's_Vesicle's po... (Below threshold)
AnonymousDrivel:

RE: I_am_Joe's_Vesicle's post (July 18, 2005 11:58 PM)

Satire, maybe, but definitely designed to go over the heads of people who want to get in and do some Professor-bashing.
...
I'll put up an example, even though no one else will read or comment on this thread:...

I recognize a glove-slap when I see one. So, I not only read your comment, I have the temerity to respond. Egads!

Admit it. Somtimes a little whack-noggin' is appropriate. Somtimes highly positioned people can manufacture supreme levels of justification... and make it sound all professional and reasonable - dissert their assertions, as it were. Some might even acquire grant money for putting it down on paper and submitting it in triplicate to another group of like-minded pointed heads. I'll dissent from their assertiveness too.

Meanwhile, those not in the ivory towers realize the real world implication - the subjects to their experiment will increase the student's liklihood of staying mired in ignorance. That is a disservice and an unintended (intended if you want some spin) consequence of pointy-headedness gone awry.

I'm afraid I have a hard time equating Chinese to first-floor ebonics of the upper east side between 1st and 3rd. Yes, language is derivative and evolving; but this is not language evolving - it is laziness perpetuating. One may certainly deconstruct any emanation and search for its structure. Behavioralist do this to animal whistles, calls, and howls all of the time. Fortunately, we have big brains that allow us to learn the proper vernacular to succeed without manufacturing an artificial environment and one wholly rejected by those in the real one.

Sorry if this seems provocative but, seriously, is this not legitimizing a contrivance?

Ebonics may not be included... (Below threshold)
brad:

Ebonics may not be included in the current plan but the stated goals of the plan are disastrous enough without it:

i.e. "The goal of the district's policy is to improve black students' academic performance by keeping them interested in school."

When the stated object of education is to achieve high grades or entertainment for it's attendees we have lost sight of the bubble. The point of education is to educate not to create, uplift, enhance or produce self-esteem; nor is it the point of education to be as fun as a day at the park. To better understand the historic achievements of our education system go here and take this 8th grade test:

http://mwhodges.home.att.net/1895-test.htm

Satire is a respected vehicle of discussion. Ironically some read Paul's message and see only the satire, missing the story, and others read Swift seeing only the story, and missing the satire.

hah.I like the edi... (Below threshold)

hah.

I like the editor's note at the beginning.

RE: Kevin's post (July 18, ... (Below threshold)
AnonymousDrivel:

RE: Kevin's post (July 18, 2005 11:10 PM)
...the disclaimer at the top is actually from me...

Thanks for the clarification. The NY Times could certainly learn something from you about proper editing. But I digress.

Truth be known I ignore the classifications - not intentionally, mind you. I just manage to skip right over it whether I'm reading or responding. Hmm, now how many of my responses have been totally inapplicable, and do you have a comment-purge button somewhere on the page? I may have missed it.

The article is as funny as ... (Below threshold)
SB:

The article is as funny as fuck. If you can't see that then you are living proof that leftists are always and everywhere stupid.

Many lefties don't want to ... (Below threshold)
John:

Many lefties don't want to see that this post was satire or will try to give some rational that it doesn't matter that it was. They see this as an opportunity to muster hate against this site. Truth be damned.

Ebonics as most people use ... (Below threshold)
I_am_Joe's_Vesicle:

Ebonics as most people use it here refers to ever-changing street slang.

As it was used by those who developed it as a comparative method of teaching Standard American English are talking about a different thing.

As I explained above, certain features of African-American Vernacular English are consistent across the entire AA population. The leaving out of the Be verb is just one example: Not conjugating the Be verb is another. Leaving off the third person singular S, and leaving off the plural S are also very consistent grammatical patterns that you will find from NY to South Carolina all the way to California.

It is, in fact, possible to write a grammar of AAVE, that would show certain features of AAVE to be very consistent across populations, and also show that many of these grammatical features are commmon with West African languages.

Interestingly, your disparagement of the topic-comment sentence structure shows your confusion as to how language works; Gaelic also has this feature, which is why someone in Ireland might say "It is the boat that he's been putting pitch on all night long." People in (surprise!) Wales and Scotland will also use this sentence structure. It is an example of imposing a grammatical structure from another language (in this case Gaelic) upon English.

So, despite your disparagement, whose data comes form people paid to bash the strawman "Left," there are demonstrable linguistic truths that underpin the theory, and there are distinct pedagogical goals, the foremost of which is to TEACH STANDARD ENGLISH.

One commenter got close to ... (Below threshold)

One commenter got close to the real issue here when they mentioned how different languages have different sentence structures.

But what everyone SEEMS to be missing is the marginalization that incorrect use of English causes to people. And this proposal to introduce Ebonics legitimizes the marginalization. Yet this does not seem to occur in other countries.

I covered it over at my blog when I said I've lived and/or visited Portugal, Spain, Brazil, Australia, New Zealand, the UK, Germany, Italy, Greece, etc. and in EVERY SINGLE ONE of those countries, native born Blacks spoke the language of the HOME country with NO ACCENTS, NO SLANG, NO EBONICS. I could close my eyes and listen to a Black Brazilian or a White Brazilian (insert country name) and I could not tell the difference in race. And yes, I actually did this as part of a personal sociological experiment.

These actions in California will do nothing but make worse the process of education for the kids living there who already get a poor education.

“Words, words, words…”... (Below threshold)
Bruce:

“Words, words, words…”

Paul,

It doesn’t mater whether your post was suppose to be “satire” or not – it insulted and inflamed. That, I think, was the real purpose. The bitterness in your second post this morning showed, I think, your true feelings. I hope I’m wrong.

For those who think I didn’t get Paul’s satire, or that I didn’t jump his post (that this was just a liberal reactions), search some of the phrases in my first response; you’ll find them sprinkled throughout Wizbang over the past week. You’ll also notice that those caustic words and phrases come from both “sides.”

For those who attacked me with such vigor “BRUCE, YOU'RE A MORON” - you helped me prove my point – the barrage of attacks was a perfect example of language here at Wizbang. Very few said “Bruce, calm down, it was a bad joke, but it was just a joke.” And Paul offered no apology at all – he entrenched.

The words we use to discuss our ideas shape our minds. If we can’t make our thoughts guide our words, then the thoughts in our minds become clichés and we don’t think. That is exactly what the spin masters on both “sides” want. It is there goal to split people off into tribes – Red or Blue – “which side are you on boys, which side are you on?”

I’ve had “civil conversations” with some people on this site – thank you for your words and the thought you gave them.

For the rest…

“Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war”

So, even as Hispanics in Ca... (Below threshold)
Lurking Observer:

So, even as Hispanics in California are moving away from the idea of being taught in Spanish or in bilingual classes, in favor of being taught in English (because it turned out that the teaching and the learning in the bilingual education classes was inferior), certain educators want to make Ebonics the equivalent of a language, and teach in it?

Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over, in the belief that the outcome will be different?

Hmmmm."These actio... (Below threshold)
ed:

Hmmmm.

"These actions in California will do nothing but make worse the process of education for the kids living there who already get a poor education."

Consider the impact of bi-lingual education in Miami. Due to the No Child Left Behind law Miami had to implement a series of tests that high school seniors had to pass in order to graduate. What they found is that 3/4 (!!!) of all Miami high school seniors could NOT pass the English test even after **5** tries on the **same** test.

These kids might be successful in their own local community, but all they're doing is creating a ghetto that they'll be trapped in.

the world's doomed. you're... (Below threshold)
leroy:

the world's doomed. you're all idiots. everyone of you. thinly veiled hate is not satire. the blame for this kind of crap goes all the way to the top(which not too many people can see, as it is too far over your thick heads). it has nothing to do with bipartisan hatemongering.

and remember this quaint phrase from someone on this thread, 'proper american english'. y'all bin down this road before. language constantly evolves. it is a reaction to oppression. a way to tell secrets right in front of your enemy. a way to seperate yourselves from your former masters.

americans are all stupid.

(this post is satire, of course)

BRUCE, YOU'RE A MORON... (Below threshold)
Paul:

BRUCE, YOU'RE A MORON

I'm a far cry from being a ... (Below threshold)
::sigh:::

I'm a far cry from being a liberal. (why do I even have to say that?) unfortunately- I think I have to agree with Bruce here. (about this post anyway- too lazy to go out and research all those comments he's referencing.) i understand the humor/ irony Paul's trying to achieve here- and the point he is making- unfortunately it just comes off as crazy and immensely insulting. The boys here at Wizbang are better than that. Satire/ shmatire- you can't say something that rude and expect that every person out there is just going to dismiss it as a joke.

Sorry guys- i love ya- but that one went a too far.

There’s a comment up there ... (Below threshold)

There’s a comment up there about there being some similarity between ebonics and some "working class UK dialects". Whether that’s true or not the subject of UK dialects is entirely relevant. You may not believe this but dialects and accents change in the UK every few miles. Yes, it goes to hte grammar, it isn’t just the case of a few words changing meaning, or of 2 or 3 % of the vocab changing. Someone speaking the Cornish dialect (and I mean that version of English spoken there, not the Celtic language of Cornish) will simply not be understood by someone from the East End of London and vice versa.
The situation in Italy and Germany (Spain to alarge extent ) is similar.
The solution in all cases is that people have their local language (in the UK, those local dialects, in Germany such things as Swabish, Bavarian, Alsatian etc, in Italy, Venezziano, Neopolitan etc) and all schooling is done in the national tongue. In hte UK, roughly what we call BBC English.....this can be accented, use location specific vocabulary, but is specifically designed to be a national language. Germany uses Alt Deutsch. Spain, Castilian. Italy, Florentine.
It is simply assumed that while people might have a language (and it can be an entirely different language, like Occidan in France, or dialect, creole, accent, based on race, location, economic class, whatever) used in a specific group they also need to know the national language so as to be able to take part in the national lifeand economy.

Four things:1. Goo... (Below threshold)

Four things:

1. Good satire does not reveal itself easily. It's bad satire if you think it's obviously a joke. This is pretty good satire. It's not sarcasm. There's a difference. Sarcasm is ironic statements in the midst of ordinary statements. This whole piece is told from the point of view of those being satired. It's clearly in the satire genre.

2. Most linguists refuse to call Black English by that wretched term the California politicans came up with.

3. The reason so many people misunderstand what the Ebonics people wanted to do is that they, for political reasons, misrepresented what they wanted to do for political reasons. The policy proposal said one thing. How they were describing it in the media was very different.

4. Black English is not a language, and linguists don't treat it as one. It is not a corruption of English, either, and only the linguistically and historically ignorant could think it is. It was a parallel development from the London English at the time the American colonies were settled. One direction the language took has ended up with Black English. Another direction it took has corrupted English in the direction that has led to standard American English that you hear newscasters speaking on TV. Another direction was the corrupted English of the upper class British of today. Another corruption is what they speak in Texas. Another is New York City cabbie speak. These are all differences that developed, most of which have settled in different regions, some of which have settled in cultural groups. All of these are changing over time, as the English language as a whole is doing. Variants pop up, and some stay and some don't. New words, new phrasings, new grammatical structures, and new pronunciations are all part of natural language. Black English is thus a component of the overall English language just like any other. Most people who speak it understand standard English just fine. They just won't speak it or write in it, and some don't have the ability to write in it or speak it well. The Ebonics program was supposed to help with that. I think it's misguided, but you shouldn't pretend that it was founded to teach people a dialect they already know. The founders of the program were talking as if they wanted to teach black people classes that used that as the language the class was conducted in, but that's not what the actual program was ever supposed to be. It's their fault people misunderstand what the program is, but that's no excuse for not learning what it is before criticizing it. Criticizing it is fine. Criticizing it as if it's something it's not is a pretty bad idea.

Editors Note: For the be... (Below threshold)
Sabba Hillel:

Editors Note: For the benefit of new Wizbang readers, please note that every story at Wizbang is categorized. You can see the category for each post on the byline at the bottom of each story.]

This was line 2 of the story. It does make for an obvious note. Also, the impression of the headline was that the people advocating Ebonics believe that Black Kids Are Too Stupid to Learn English


I want to read Bruce and Jo... (Below threshold)
BorgQueen:

I want to read Bruce and Joe Vesicle's comments in Ebonics, not English.

C'mon guys, translate for us, will ya?

Republicans are so stupid t... (Below threshold)
W:

Republicans are so stupid them piss all over themselves. Film at 11

Sigh... The *real* problem ... (Below threshold)
JBrickley:

Sigh... The *real* problem is lost in this discussion thread. It's not about *race* or *racism* it's about culture. I am a Scottish American and if you've ever seen the Robin Williams bit about drinking with a Scotsman where he ends up talking about Golf you will understand that it's not just African American's who have a language barrier. The Scotch, Irish, Welsh, etc. have been experiencing British ridicule for hundreds upon hundreds of years!

English is a pretty messed up language that has evolved over a long long period of time. Words in English were adopted from all sorts of old languages such as Latin, Gaelic, Welsh, etc. Spelling was something that was never standard.

There are more then a dozen dialects within the Philippine languages and due to their being a Spanish colony for so long; many Spanish words were adopted into the common language. My wife is from the Philippines and every now and then I catch a Spanish word that I recognize when she's on the phone with her family.

Puerto Ricans and Mexicans speak a sort of slang Spanish and when they hear a native Spaniard speak, they think they must be a politician or something. Same goes for Italian or even the Queens English! Ever watch British Parliament? It's no wonder Tony Blair is such a great speaker, he has to defend himself in a crowd that would make most Blog threaders blush!

The trouble with the "Intellectuals" is they think they are so smart, but they have quite a hard time communicating in simple straight forward language. The elitist attitude doesn't help them get their point across. Then you have the Bruce's of the world who have no sense of humor and cannot recognize sarcasm when they see it.

Yes, Ebonics (used to be called Jive but I guess the PC Police changed the word and Intellectuals tried to elevate it's status to something legitimate. Interesting that my spellchecker flagged Ebonics but not Jive - Oxford - American English edition) does indeed have some cultural background such as Creole, etc. However, it's still very much 'Slang' and it's been enhanced over the years with words like Bonkadonk and Fizzle m' Snizzle, etc. Flashback and watch the original movie 'Airplane' when the two 'brothers' speak Jive and the subtitles in English!

Perhaps it's the media's fault for not fully understanding the Linguists who want to use Ebonics to teach African Americans how to speak proper English. We all know how much the media misunderstands the Internet and computer technology whenever they write about hackers, etc. Heck, the media is pretty stupid in general...

I believe that Ebonics should be taught to English teachers so they can correct the students and understand it better. However, the students should not be taught Ebonics nor be allowed to turn in papers written using Ebonics. At least not without being corrected and forced to re-write a paper in order to learn the proper way to speak and write. The quoted article seems to imply the reverse.

Again, the true problem is about culture. If you don't adopt the culture of your home country then you are forced into a subordinate role. Ebonics will never be mainstream, neither will Spanglish. Bill Cosby is going to blow a gasket over this Ebonics program. He is traveling and speaking to the African American community to try to shake them up and get them to see the light. In order to be accepted by mainstream society and in order to get a good job you need to speak properly. Otherwise, you are just holding yourself back from success. There are many educated and successful blacks with good careers, there should be a whole lot more!

All of that said, I love the Satire of this post and got a real kick over the ensuing threaded discussion! ;-)

Educational CyberPlayGround... (Below threshold) My two cents. Keep it up, ... (Below threshold)
Tom:

My two cents. Keep it up, man. People can read it or not. I, for one, apprecaite a good bit of non-PC humor now and then. You'll have my 7-14 hits a week as long as you keep it intelligent and funny (no danger on either count).

You need a PhD to be stupid... (Below threshold)
JoeS:

You need a PhD to be stupid enough to take ebonics seriously. There must be a brain reduction pill they give these people.

J. Pierce made some excelle... (Below threshold)
Shad Small:

J. Pierce made some excellent points. One, no one speaks the "King's English." But we all know English in general so we can communicate with each other. To JBricklye, "slang" is a relative term. Yesterday's slang is tomorrow's standard of language. And you're using "Airplane" as an example? You can't take anything in that movie seriously--that's the point.

And it's "fo' shizzle my ni... (Below threshold)
Shad Small:

And it's "fo' shizzle my nizzle," by the way.

Gotta agree with Craig an' ... (Below threshold)
Tony the Pony:

Gotta agree with Craig an' 'em: If this is meant to be satire, it really ought to be more, you know, satirical. Usually satire is funny, or at least wry.

I believe all white people ... (Below threshold)
sal:

I believe all white people should learn ebonics
we could start by playing Ebonic Pursuit
http://www.ebonicpersuit.com/ebonics.htm

You guys are all racist Geu... (Below threshold)
Blac_kld:

You guys are all racist Geuss what black people will destroy u honkeys hhahahah

I'll drop my PC talk for a ... (Below threshold)
Nicholas Smith:

I'll drop my PC talk for a second. Paul and the rest of you who have the audacity to subscribe to this crapare idiots who will keep America as it has been: a racist country lead by people benfitting from white privlege.

Satire or not, the column is stupid.




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