Interesting quote from the Who's Who web page:

Who's Who in America has proven to be of critical reference value to a wide variety of users...

* Fund-raisers, civic groups, foundations
* Lawyers, politicians
* Financial analysts, brokers
* Journalists, radio/TV news editors
* Executive recruiters
* Government officials, diplomats
* Business leaders
* Scientists, educators, students
* Speaker and search committees
* Advertising and PR agencies

More importantly, "Who's Who" information is provided by the honoree, so it was Wilson himself that put her name in the book.

Additional info added in his 2005 profile:

2002-2004: Self promoting, opportunistic, Democratic party hack. 2004 to present: Camera hogging, bold faced liar.

I don't see where it says she worked for the CIA there.

Of course, mantis does make a good point.....

I've been following the Plame scandal virtually not at all, but from what I understand, it was never a secret that Joe Wilson was married to Valerie Plame. The secret was that she worked for the CIA. That being so, the Who's Who entry proves nothing.

Don't you think his neighbors knew his wife's name? Her name or who she was married to was never the secret. Identifying Wilson's wife (either by name or by some positive identification such as say... "Joe Wilson's wife") as a CIA operative is what was supposed to be kept secret and that is what is relevant.

As, by the way, is the fact that someone also gave Novak the name of the cover company she worked for, thereby endangering every other operative using that cover.

I know it's hard, but please try to keep your eye on the ball.

Uhh, Kevin, it was no secret that Joe Wilson was married to a woman named Valerie Plame --- everyone who knew them knew that. What WAS a secret was that she WORKED FOR THE CIA. HOW THE HELL YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE IS BEYOND ME.

Of course, as mantis notes above, the fact that she was a covert agent, coupled with the name, was the national security problem. The mere fact that Wilson was married to someone who happened to be named Valerie Plame Wilson wasn't a secret. I should think this would be obvious to anyone whose mind wasn't beclouded by overwhelming right-wing bias.

Why are mid-level government agency analysts getting listings in Who's Who??

Where does it list her affiliation with the CIA?

Why is it that today's chicken shit repukes hate the military and the CIA?

Why do repukes defend traitors like Bob Novak?

"BFD" I agree with mantis. Who's Who is a standard reference used by the organizations in mcg's comment. As an Ambassador, Wilson would have been the type of person to be listed. The biographical data is also standard. None of this excuses the behavior of the Bush administration and their cronies.

Indeed, given that the criminal statute at issue makes it a crime to identify a covert agent, the Who's Who listing makes it possible to break the law - by saying that Wilson's wife is a CIA operative - without actually naming her.

I gotta admit--it doesn't seem to say anything like "Valerie Plame--undercover operative for the CIA."

Or is the relevant point here that Wilson should have kept his marriage and children secret just on the off chance that someone might try to out his wife?

I bet if you looked up her high school yearbook, she used the name "Valerie Plame" too. Oh wait, that was her name?

Freeptards.

It's an odd notion indeed, that some people believe in order to be covert you must renounce your given name.

I was always under the impression that what is supressed is not your name, but rather your affiliation with the intelligence community.

How exactly is Joe Wilson a liar?

So, via Who's Who, the name "Valerie Plame" has been associated publicly with Joe Wilson since the Clinton era - nice secret...

The name "Valerie Plame" has been associated publicly with Joe Wilson ever since they got married. Marriage licenses are public record.

Thus, we should prohibit secret government operatives from marrying, having children, being born or dying. After all, once you know somebody's name, the jig is up...

Allah, the CIA agent whose duty it was to deal with the public, told the WaPo and others that he testified that he told Novak the story wasn't true and not to use her name. He told the WaPo that he checked on her covert status, called Novak back and said that the story Novak had wasn't true and he shouldn't write it, but *if he did, he shouldn't use her name*.

And please, the controversy has fluctuated back and forth, but Wilson's original flogging point was that Novak had *revealed her name*, and it's been a point that's been beaten to death. So Kevin's post is directly on point.

Typical wingnut obfuscation and misdirection. The statute in question says "identify" -- not NAME, "identify" a covert agent, . . .

You guys can't all be that stupid -- can you?

By this logic, in the 007 movies, when James Bond introduces himself to the villains at cocktail parties and tells them that he's "Bond, James Bond," he's actually blowing his cover.

You're not too bright, Kevin.

Does the book have an entry for Plame? Just curious.

I never understood why somebody would sign up for 'Who's who" but I once saw it on a job applicant's resume, as if that is some sort of credential.

I'll take Kevin's non-response to the obvious defect in his reasoning as proof of what an intellectually dishonest twit he is.

Pamela:

You're wrong on both counts. The CIA agent did NOT check her covert status and tell Novak he was wrong on that point; he checked to see if Plame had ordered Joe Wilson to go to Niger, and then said that that point was wrong. He stressed that she WAS covert, and told Novak not to print her name.

And you're missing the point. Revealing the name "Valerie Plame" by itself is not a violation of the law (or the public trust), nor is revealing that some anonymous undercover CIA agent did something a violation of the law, or treasonous.

It's mentioning the name "Valerie Plame" as an undercover CIA agent that's the crime, and the treasonous activity. I can see your IQ is very low, so I'll give you a few moments to wrap your head around it.

"Valerie Plame"? Not a secret. There are undercover CIA agents? Not a secret. Valerie Plame was an undercover CIA agent? That's a secret.

Freeptard.

Joe Wilson has been caught in several lies. If you MENSA's knew how to use the Internet, you'd know that already.

Woo-hoo! It's Friday!

Wow, these DU'ers really know how to carry out a logical argument, don't they?

Why was Valerie Plame put on "enforced leave"?

And please, the controversy has fluctuated back and forth, but Wilson's original flogging point was that Novak had *revealed her name*, and it's been a point that's been beaten to death. So Kevin's post is directly on point.

Jeezus, it's a figure of speech, Pamela. Putting her name right next to the words "CIA operative" is what Wilson was talking about.

Lots of articles talk about Novak "outing" her, too -- does that make her a lesbian?

Get a frickin' clue, people!

Okay, lots of posts while I was commenting. Please pay attention to what the CIA guy said. *The story he (Novak) had wasn't true, but, if he (Novak) wrote it, he shouldn't use her name.*

Note that nowhere did he insist on leaving her out of it completely. So, if we believe what he claims his testimony to the grand jury was (and he's CIA, he wouldn't lie, right?) then you cannot conclude, from what the CIA agent testified, that Novak did anything wrong.

Now, there may be other reasons to conclude guilt, but NOT based on what the CIA guy did. And folks, the statute says that the CIA had to be making concerted effort to protect her covert status. Based on what the CIA agent testified, doesn't sound like they were fulfilling their part of it, if indeed she was covert.

Wilson's original flogging point was that Novak had *revealed her name*

Are you guys really this stupid, or just pretending to be stupid? Because if you're just pretending, then I feel sorry for you. It must be frustrating to be forced to soil your reputations by making stupid arguments like this one with a straight face. But I guess you have no choice!

This is what Novak wrote:

Wilson never worked for the CIA, but his wife, Valerie Plame, is an Agency operative on weapons of mass destruction.

Novak revealed the name as that of a covert CIA agent. The secret wasn't that he had a wife.

I don't know how to use the internet... so can you list some lies for us? We would all like to be informed.

Hmm, you guys talk about logical arguments, but I have yet to see one.

1) Please give me an example of Joe Wilson being caught in a lie that's on point to the issues being discussed with Niger, yellowcake, and the outing of his wife.
2) Please explain how the public knowledge that Joe Wilson was married to Valerie Plame is the same as identifying Valerie Plame as an undercover CIA agent.

Geniuses. Really.

Plame had two jobs for the CIA. One, which was her most recent job and the one in which she was in a position to suggest her husband be sent to niger, was not a covert position. It was publicly known that she worked for the CIA. In her other job for the CIA (which apparently ended in 1998, or thereabouts) she was a covert operative.

Ross,

I don't know how to use the internet... so can you list some lies for us? We would all like to be informed.

Pamela wrote:

"And please, the controversy has fluctuated back and forth, but Wilson's original flogging point was that Novak had *revealed her name*, and it's been a point that's been beaten to death. So Kevin's post is directly on point."

Pamela, stop for a second. Does it make any sense for someone to mind if someone says, "X is his wife?" It makes no sense at all.

It never occurred to me that anyone would interpret it that way. I suppose that if you take something without context, you can make it mean anything you want. But do you think that an investigator (who is a Republican at that) would spend more than two seconds laughing if that is all that was meant?

We have two relevant items. The first is the endangering of national security. That it appears to be for political gain makes it more insidious. But to deny this piece is to say that national security is less important than standing with your party. You have to choose--your party or your nation. I prefer the nation.

The second relevant item is that a fair number of people put forth Pamela's lines. Whether this is just because of confusion as to what is really at stake here or distortion on a partisan basis almost does not matter. Either way, it needs to stop because we're talking about national security.

OMG, don't you get it. It means Joe Wilson is a bigamist! All this time he's been married to Mrs. Wilson AND some woman named Plame! No doubt about it, he's toast now!

She was already outed by Aldrich Ames, which is why they pulled her out of actual covert duty. My understanding is that her neighbors were well aware that she worked for the CIA. I guess she must have leaked it to them.

Michael S.,

Don't try to confuse wingnuts with logic. Those who worship Dear Leader will never let facts deter them. When facts intrude they fight them with made-up facts; when that doesn't work, they ignore the facts; when that doesn't work; they dispute the existence of facts. There is simply no set of circumstances that would convince them that anything Dear Leader has done is less than perfect. The guy could get caught red-handed carjacking a Lexus on K Street, and it would make no difference. Dear Leader, BTW, has stated for the record that he shares this view of his own infallibility.

It was not a secret that Joe Wilson was married. What was a secret was that his wife worked for the CIA, tellingly that information is no where to be found in this entry.

Do you really believe that Novak found out about Valerie Plame through Who's Who? Did he then divine her idenity as a covert CIA operative through force of mental telepathy?

And Pamela 2, how nice. Where did I insult anyone's intelligence or speak with disrespect? You make it difficult for anyone to take you seriously if you respond so nastily. And, uh, NO. The agent testified that he checked her status, NOT that he checked to see if she had anything to do with the trip. Since, supposedly, his concern was about 'outing' an 'undercover' agent.

Both the retired CIA mediaperson Novak contacted and Novak himself establish that Novak called the CIA before he ran his Plame column to confirm she worked there.The CIA mediaperson cofirmed she worked there, but asked Novak not to use her name and did not tell Novak she was "covert" because that was classified. Novak has said he would never have run with the story had he been told not to, but he was not. It is apparent that the CIA "outed" Plame, although others may have "outed" her as a CIA employee as well (perhaps Judy Miller, who has most likely known Plame/Wilson for years).

Pamela,

Ambassador Wilson's ORIGINAL FLOGGING POINT was that the White House had little evidence to suggest that Iraq had ties to Al Quaeda and that Iraq was not looking to buy yellowcake from Niger.

Then came Novak's article outing Plame as a CIA agent. NOT as Joseph Wilson's wife.

This isn't about Valerie Plame or Joseph Wilson.

This is about the outing of a CIA operative AND the operation she worked for JUST for political payback. This is about national security. This is about wasting millions of tax payer's dollars just for political payback because it takes DECADES to establish an undercover operation.

That's called treason.

I dunno. There are good points here about her private life vs. professional association. The problem is her relationship with Wilson and sending him on a mission that was erroneously used to slam the Bush administration. Wilson never even wrote a report on it, but it was so important that he became the Times' op-ed go-to guy?

That he's a "Who's Who" kind of guy doesn't mean he's a climber. He does have some interesting creds. So how did he become the poster boy for the "intelligence lied" argument? Why is there no furor over his mistakes? Flame away.

Authentic American hero. Warrior against the forces of darkness currently occupying the White House. Slayer of right wing trolls.

Yes, yes, that's the ticket. It was her name that was secret, not the fact that she was a CIA operative.

Shithead traitors.

Finally, Mr. Novak, Mr. Rove and Mr. Liddy are vindicted. It was "Who's Who" that outed Valerie Plame as Wilson's wife. Obviously the marriage alerted the world that Plame was a CIA agent. After all, energy consultants never marry Ambassadors--it's taboo, like marying your daughter.

So I want to know who Judith Miller is protecting. Do you really think she went to jail to protect Karl Rove or Robert Novak? This woman works for the New York Times, who display unending hostility to Rove and all things Bushian. Whomever she is protecting is the real culprit.

This whole argument is quite something. Valerie Plame Wilson should not have been outed. But let's not act as if she were out running black ops. She wasn't She read think tank reports. The real problem is that the statutes that govern Identities Protection are antiquated. For instance, everyone is wiggy about Plame who had a desk job. But not a single person has noted that our SPecial Forces don't have the same protection. And they are out in the field, occasionally on missions directed by the CIA. If one of their identities gets blown - they are in mortal danger. Valerie Plame was more likely to get stuck in traffic on the GW Parkway. Let's keep our eye on the ball. Novak is a has-been desperate to be relevant.

The real issues about outing a cover agent are 1) knowledge of the covert status and most importantly, 2) intent of blowing the cover. The questions then are:

1) If Ms. Plame’s cover was so deep, and outing her identity so dangerous, why did Wilson allow her maiden name to be posted on Who is Who AND in his internet bio at the Middle East Institute in 2002 where it was easily available on Google in July 2003 at the time of his Op-Ed in the NYT?

http://eyeontheworld.typepad.com/home/2005/07/wilson_was_the_.html

2) Given the established public nature of her maiden name documented above, the day Wilson's editorial appeared in the NYT Valerie Plame went from being the wife of Joseph Wilson, former ambassador, retired, to the wife of Joseph Wilson, CIA contractor that investigates WMD and can not keep his mouth shut.
Why didn’t Wilson think that writing an Op-ed about the CIA, his work for it, and her subject matter expertise in the NYT and then giving public interviews about it could plausibly increase the risk (even if it was only marginally) to her job, her cover and potentially her life?

3) Given that he was so casual about making very public statements related to his wife’s field of expertise and place of employment, it would be logical for any rational observer to conclude that Wilson had a lackadaisical attitude to protecting any subjects related to her wife’s job. Thus the questions are, would any rational husband in the world do anything public that would create ANY risk, even minimal risk, to his wife’s job and potentially her life? Would anyone even think that a husband would be so reckless?

4) Thus, knowing this information, why would any other rational person, regardless of position, when learning about her place of employment would even think or speculate that her CIA employment was of a covert nature or that there would be any sort of risk associated with mentioning it?

I think that the hypothetical conversation between the bad guys that I
outline below would have been fairly plausible, even if Novak's column would have never been published.

Ms. Plame is in Russia in 2004, back in business, trying to obtain WMD information from
black market dealers.
> > > Dealer 1: So who is this chick Plame?
> > > Dealer 2: I do not know, let me check on the Internet.
> > > Dealer 2: I found on Google this site where it says that she is the wife of some
> > > Joseph Wilson.
> > > Dealer 1: What?
> > > Dealer 2: Joseph Wilson, former ambasador.
> > > Dealer 1: The Joseph Wilson? The one that wrote in U.S. papers that he
> > > worked for the CIA looking for WMD?
> > > Dealer 2: I guess so.
> > > Dealer 1: The next time you see this chick make sure that our names never appear on the paper.

As everyone who's been awake through this story knows, Novak says he heard from reporters that "Wilson's wife works for the CIA". Apparently this was common knowledge among the media set. Novak also says he found that Wilson's wife is named "Valerie Plame" by consulting WW. Apparently Wilson's wife is indeed identified by name in WW. Ergo (that means "therefore", lefties) it's perfectly plausible that Novak learned that Valerie Plame is a CIA employee in the manner he claims. Duh.

The commenters above who are unable to navigate a chain of logic this short are simply dumbasses. No other explanation possible.

She hasn't been covert since 1997, so there hasn't been a "breach" regarding her former covert status.

"How exactly is Joe Wilson a liar?"

You asked for it (dumbass):

1. He said Cheney sent him to Africa (Lie - his wife recommended him at the CIA)

2. He said he found nothing (Lie - the PM of Niger told him an Iraqi delegation had come to talk about purchasing Uranium)

The guy's the biggest self-important blowhard camera hound this side of McCain.

Send him to Gitmo!

People, people, people, she was not undercover! There was NO CRIME. She was CIA. Not a secret. She DID do what she could to get her husband selected for the trip. He then LIED about what he found and how he got selected to go.

What is SO hard to understand?

Dude, that James Bond comment was hilarious.

Also, the only person to have claimed knowing her CIA status before the leak is Cliff May of the National Review. No on else, not a neighbor, friend or cocktail party circuiteer has stepped forward saying they knew.

It proves Novak is being slippery, and begs the question why?

As much as you might say that Plame's outing was for payback (which I don't agree with, at worst it was just a mistake, Rove probably didn't even know she was supposed to be covert), she wasn't exactly in a position where outing her is a national secutiry issue. Her life is in absolutely no danger from this. If it was, then why has she been displayed happily on the cover of Vanity Fair, not bothering to hide, or find a safe house or anything.

Now we're getting payback in reverse. The left is using the outing of someone who doesn't matter a bit to attack Bush and friends like there is no tomorrow. That's payback for winning the election.

This whole thing does not matter in the least to anyone, except in terms of what sort of political points they can score, and Joseph Wilson is right at the top of the list of people who have used this for personal gain. He got a book deal out of it, he got on lots of TV shows, and he got on the cover of a magazine. But did the outing affect our national security in any way? Did it cause a secret agent to die? Did it blow a massive secret operation? No, no, no. This is all about partisan bickering, with no real issue in sight.

Hi folks- Paul here...

I think several of you (all of you?) missed the whole point of the post.

The speculation was that Novak was running away from the contents of that big brown book. Clearly the contents (to what extent can me argued) tend to back him up...

Certainly it shows there was nothing in the book for him to be afraid of.

Since Novak made the claim she WAS in the book if she WAS NOT in the book it would make him look bad. Since she was in the book, it is extraordinarily doubtful he was running away because he saw a Who's Who sitting on the desk.

The post was more about Novak's motivation for leaving the CNN desk than who Plame was.

Frankly, I'm not sure why this needs explaining but apparently it does.

"...you see, your honor, the road was totally deserted, four whole empty lanes as far as the eye could see. The weather was perfect, my car is designed for much higher speeds, and I wasn't hurting anybody. While I may have technically broken the law, I really don't think doing 120 in a 55 zone with my lights out at 3:30 A.M. is really all that serious. I mean, c'mon--it's not like I was gleefully running down pedestrians at a Girl Scout festival. It's not my fault our traffic laws are so antiquated."

"Do you really believe that Novak found out about Valerie Plame through Who's Who? Did he then divine her idenity as a covert CIA operative through force of mental telepathy?"

Yes, I do. I bet he drank some of that Magical Kabbalah water Katherine Harris nagged the State of Florida into buying. If it can cure citris canker and make you lucky, I bet it can give you telepathy.

Oh, and we've turned the corner in Iraq, too.

Actually the points about Wilson lieing are as follows

1. He lied about how he got the mission (denied that he got it through his wife)

2. He lied about Niger not being approached to sell the ore to Iraq (his own report said they did)

3. He lied about the report itself (source - the congressional report)

4. Lied about his wife's covert status (the neighbors all knew who his wife was employed by).

5. Lied about the report being sent to the Vice President's office (Mr. Cheney never knew of such a report)

6. Lied about the truth of the 16 words (The British still maintain that their sources show the claim was true).

Is that enough for everyone? There is more as can be seen at many places on the net.

I don't see why every wingnut takes it on face value that she was a "desk jockey." SHE WAS A NOC, PEOPLE!

Do you think the CIA kept her with that classification out of inertia? Or do you think it just might be possible that the "desk jockey" story is A LIE TO COVER UP HER CONTINUING COVERT STATUS?

Wow! Deception -- from the CIA? Who'da thunk?

What was a secret was that his wife worked for the CIA

No doubt she took the secret CIA transporter to beam into work each day instead of driving into the front gate. The fact that someone works at the CIA is not a secret.

Fine, so the CIA said she was a desk jockey as a cover. Then I say she works for the CIA, I'm outing a desk jockey, not a covert agent. That would make it the CIAs fault, not mine, because why the heck should I be worried about saying a desk jockey works for the CIA?

Wow, you must've been linked on DU, Kevin. Congrats. Now can you get rid of this moonbat infestation?

So far, the only wrongdoing that has been established is that on the part of Joe Wilson.

Sabba
Point 1 is a gross and politically-motivated misinterpretation of what Joe Wilson actually said.

Point 2 is a gross and politically-motivated misinterpretation of what Joe Wilson actually said.

Point 3 is a gross and politically-motivated misinterpretation of what Joe Wilson actually said.

Point 4 is a gross and politically-motivated misinterpretation of what Joe Wilson actually said.

Point 5 is a gross and politically-motivated misinterpretation of what Joe Wilson actually said.

Point 6 is a gross and politically-motivated misinterpretation of what Joe Wilson actually said.

I really can't see how anybody can possibly deny this and still consider themselves human, American, patriotic, or even sentient. The evidence supporting my statements is overwhelming and readily available on any one of the many Internets, and I'll further assert the unnasailable veracity of my points by concluding this post with the statement "Period." on a single line.

Period.

Not really adding anything new here, the previous 40 or so comments seem to have it covered, but this has got to be the stupidest post I have ever seen on this blog, and believe me, it's got some competition.

Yeah, Joe Wilson's wedding to Valerie took place under cover of darkness, on a secluded island in the Indian Ocean. In the years thereafter, Joe denied that the gold band around his left ring finger was a wedding ring, instead insisting that it was merely a "good luck charm." His friends began to think he might be gay after he repeatedly turned down his friends who wanted to set-up the stubbornly single bachelor with eligible women. Well, I guess the secret's finally out. Joe Wilson is married to Valerie Plame. Man, and to think I could have just consulted my trusty Who's Who from ALL THE WAY BACK TO 1999!

The extent of your stupidity beggars belief.

It was a crime. It was Rove. Deal with it.

onlyabill - it's not that it's hard to understand, it's just that it's not complicated enough to draw attention away from Joe Wilson's lack of credibility, which is the only issue of any significance in this entire affair. "Who 'outed' Plame" has been an exercise in press obfuscation since Novak provided the opportunity. Stupid, stupid Novak.

Wilson did lie about his wife's involvement in his selection. That's now public record.

He didn't lie about what he found in Niger. He assumed the CIA agreed with his conclusion, also now public record. The problem arose when he arrogantly attacked the administration based on that assumption. The flipflops he's executed since have been an attempt to misdirect from his own misdeeds.

http://tinyurl.com/7c4n4 - check the comments for the Timeline.

Tom... the traffic laws being antiquated is totally different than the protection of covert identities. All the SOF guys do manage to keep their work secret. Their wives & families very rarely know anything about where, or what, the "job" is.

And if one of the SOF spouses EVER outed the operator - it would compromise the mission, and potentially cause mortal danger. I can't imagine that even Joe Wilson (who was desperate to keep a plum-book assignment) would do something that might cause his own wife harm.

Therefore - she wasn't likely to be in any harm. And he never had any concern when having her announced at a State Dinner in the 90s... gimme a break. Valerie Plame Wilson was a desk jockey. Her husband is a gossiping social climber. Unfortunately - so is Robert Novak.

No doubt she took the secret CIA transporter to beam into work each day instead of driving into the front gate. The fact that someone works at the CIA is not a secret.

Just like the Director of the Directorate of Operations. Why can't I find his name anywhere?

Wilson never worked for the CIA, but his wife, Valerie Plame, is an Agency operative on weapons of mass destruction.

I really hate to jump into the middle of this, but Novak never stated that Valerie Plame was a covert operative, as the above quote shows. So, what I'm wondering is, what difference does it make that people knew that "Valerie Plame" worked for the CIA? I assume covert agents don't use their real names.

"... this has got to be the stupidest post I have ever seen on this blog, and believe me, it's got some competition."

The commie-left said the same thing about Den Beste's post that asserted that France would nuke us if we attacked Iraq. They were wrong then too. France launched its missiles, but Our Leader used his special God powers to destroy the warheads before they re-entered the atmosphere.

Darwin Finch

Wrong again, dumbass:

1. Total lie. Never sad Cheney sent him to Africa.

2. Gross and politically-motivated misinterpretation of what Joe Wilson actually said.

I see nothing about Valerie Plame Wilson being in CIA employ there.

Hmmm.

1. Well. Looks like the goof-ball liberals are out in force today. Must be the weather.

2. "Just like the Director of the Directorate of Operations. Why can't I find his name anywhere?"

Christ you bastards bore the crap out of me:

http://ctstudies.com/Document/911_Commission_Pavitt_Pistole_Testimony.html

" JAMES L. PAVITT

DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF OPERATIONS, CIA "

Google: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=lang_en&q=cia+ddo+2005&btnG=Search

Google, yet to be discovered by liberals. I bet when one of you twits finally discovers Google, you'll get a f-ing Medal Of Honor and get your name in the damn history books.

I sure hope it happens pretty soon, this is getting old.

Valerie Plame Wilson was a desk jockey. Her husband is a gossiping social climber. Unfortunately - so is Robert Novak.

...and yet, for some reason, folks are going to jail and a federal investigation into this matter is rapidly picking up steam. Odd, when you consider how very little harm has been done--given, of course, that Plame's outing is of no real consequence.

One can only conclude that Patrick Fitzgerald must be an undercover Democratic Party operative who hates America.

(Whoop--sorry, I meant Democrat party operative. I keep forgetting that we're no longer extending the courtesy of referring to the Democratic Party by its proper name.)

Man you wingers are dumb, while talking about "logic".

1) Plame's neighbor was publicly quoted as saying she had no idea Plame was CIA.
2) Wilson said he went on behalf of the VP's office, which right wing desk jockeys later (purposefully) misconstrued as him saying that he said he was sent by Cheney. True.
3) If you still believe that Iraq tried to buy yellowcake from Niger, then you're hopeless. This has been widely disproven.
4) Plame's identity was not a secret. She had a public persona as an energy consultant working for a consulting company. And yes, part of that persona included the fact that she was married to Wilson. What was secret was that she, and the company she worked for, were CIA.
5) There has been no evidence that Plame's identity as a CIA agent (note, I'm not saying Plame's identity, as in her name, dumbasses) was widely known, other than a statement by Novak and followup by the usual right wing talking heads.

This disagreement all derives from the fact that you wingers get your "news" from highly dubious sources, the same ones that told you that Iraq was an imminent threat to the US in 2003, the same ones that told you that Al Qaeda was an exaggeration by Clinton to distract from his Lewinsky scandal in 1996 and 1997, and the same ones that tell you that success in Iraq is just around the corner.

Maybe you should find new news sources, dumbasses. And please refrain from using the word "logic" until you can make a logical argument. For example, if all of your argument is contingent on the word of one dubious source (Novak), and is contrary to all other available information, this is not a good argument.

Found this though the swamp of braindead leftists at Atrios.

Is this blog always so infested by total morons?

I thought the big deal about the Who's Who entry was the name "Plame" as opposed to "Wilson".

Supposedly, when she married Wilson she took his name both personally and professionally - she was "Valerie Wilson" to friends, family and colleagues.

One of the few places where she was still "Valerie Plame" was in Joe Wilson's Who's Who entry.

Presumably, if someone was specifically trying to blow her cover in retaliation, they would have used the name everyone knew her by - Valerie Wilson. However, if someone leaked/mentioned that nepotism was somehow involved in his being chosen to go to Niger (i.e., trying to undermine his credibility, not trying to punish him by outing his wife), a journalist (Novak) might simply have pulled down his copy of Who's Who and found the "Valerie Plame" reference and used that name.

Is this blog always so infested by total morons?

Dunno, Gary; first time here. How often are YOU here?

Anyways..

The NRO has already proved that Plame was outed in the mid-1990s.

As well, a lot of this investigation is just a ghosthunt

Well.. hopefully there's fewer stupid leftists around. Or else we'll be forced to smack them around and expose their their lies.

This thread is definitely infested with morons. Moonbats denying reality are abound.

It always nice to see what the mental midgets are thinking on the other side though. So please keep up the whacko postings and the uninformed opinions. It's good reading!

Michael Scott posted:

I don't see why every wingnut takes it on face value that she was a "desk jockey." SHE WAS A NOC, PEOPLE!

Do you think the CIA kept her with that classification out of inertia? Or do you think it just might be possible that the "desk jockey" story is A LIE TO COVER UP HER CONTINUING COVERT STATUS?

Wow! Deception -- from the CIA? Who'da thunk?

A NOC wouldn't be publicly known as a desk jockey at Langley, no way, no how!

This is so idiotic that it defies belief.

It reminds me of a line from a Laurel and Hardy movie where they play henpecked husbands.

They want to go to a convention and engage in a little hanky-panky (or what passed for that in those days) but don't want their wives to know-

Stan:

"I know! We'll go to the convention and tell our wives that we're going to the convention, and they'll never be the wiser."

Plame was blown before 1997 when she was reassigned to Washington and a desk (this fact makes anyone's "outing" of her not a crime under the applicable statute due to the five-year limitation).

It was suspected, but not proven that Aldrich Ames supplied her name to the Russians, but the other instance falls right at the foot of the CIA:

from an Andrew McCarthy article in National Review discussing an amicus brief from the media in the Judith Miller case:

The press informs the judges that the CIA itself "inadvertently" compromised Plame by not taking appropriate measures to safeguard classified documents that the Agency routed to the Swiss embassy in Havana. In the Washington Times article — you remember, the one the press hypes when it reports to the federal court but not when it reports to consumers of its news coverage — Gertz elaborates that "[t]he documents were supposed to be sealed from the Cuban government, but [unidentified U.S.] intelligence officials said the Cubans read the classified material and learned the secrets contained in them."

Once somebody has been blown, you can't unblow them and blow them again.

Game over.

It's all about sex, let's just move on.

Hmmm.

1. "4. Lied about his wife's covert status (the neighbors all knew who his wife was employed by)."

Actually this is wrong. This assertion is derived from Scott of PowerlineBlog, who uncritically repeated it from a reader to emailed him, and there is no justification or proof of this anywhere that I could find.

Adjust your thinking accordingly, or don't. It's not like I care all that much.

2. "I see nothing about Valerie Plame Wilson being in CIA employ there."

What? You didn't see the previous 4,500+ posts that basically said the same thing?

Try being original. At least write it backwards or something so it'll amuse.

3. "I don't see why every wingnut takes it on face value that she was a "desk jockey." SHE WAS A NOC, PEOPLE!".

Wonderful. You people finally watched "Mission Impossible". Here's a clue. You can be on a NOC list, but I'd suggest it would be pretty damn stupid to be on a NOC list and still work at Langely i.e. CIA headquarters.

I think it's possible that people, dealing with covert nuclear weapons proliferation nonsense, might be a little hesitant to deal with someone who used to work at the CIA headquarters.

What Plame going to do? Just shrug it off and say it was just a summer job?

...

Good luck Kevin, they're all yours.

Goof-ball liberals? Morons? Brain-dead leftists? Oh, the brutal sting of the sardonic riposte! The razor wit! The crushing blow of Truth Absolute! Gentlemen, please! Your words, they hurt! I can stand no more!

I...I think I need to go cry on Susan Sarandon's shoulder for a few. Then I'll hug a tree full of baby seals.

*sniff*

goy said: "Wilson did lie about his wife's involvement in his selection. That's now public record."

Wilson did not lie. He was the "beard" -- the front man who draws attention to himself so that someone else can work in relative anonymity. Plame had the perfect cover as the wife of a diplomat. Once in country she could do her spy thing behind the scenes while Wilson did his diplomat thing in front of the cameras. That's why Wilson denied that she had anything to do with his mission. Think about it for a second. If it were your spouse in the CIA would you draw attention to her or admit her status thus endangering her life?

Some of these angry little donkeys should get a clue: you want to find out where Plame works?
1. Get her address in one of many ways available when you know her name, her husband's name, and where her husband works (from WW).
2. Follow her to work one morning.
3. Not complicated (for some).

The point is that her identity as a CIA employee could have easily been ascertained at any time after 1999 when Joltin' Joe wrote his first pathetic little Who's Who entry.

Wow. So many lying liars. Please illustrate any of the ridiculous rantings and frothings that you indulge in, freepi, are anything other than cover for treacherous slime.

Rove. Libby. Probably Feith.

Oh, and please defend Franklin, too.

Ed says:

"I think it's possible that people, dealing with covert nuclear weapons proliferation nonsense, might be a little hesitant to deal with someone who used to work at the CIA headquarters.

What Plame going to do? Just shrug it off and say it was just a summer job?"

In a similar vein, I think that WMD dealers might be a little hesitant to deal with someone whose husband works as a CIA contractor for WMD hunts and brags about it in the NYT. What was Plame going to do? Just shrug it off and say "I do not bring my work home?"

Hmmm.

@ Ring Wing Dumbass, actually more likely a "Left Wing Dumbass", but that would be impolite.

1) Plame's neighbor was publicly quoted as saying she had no idea Plame was CIA.

Correct.

2) Wilson said he went on behalf of the VP's office, which right wing desk jockeys later (purposefully) misconstrued as him saying that he said he was sent by Cheney. True.

Wrong as hell. Wilson has repeatedly stated that we was sent by the VP.

3) If you still believe that Iraq tried to buy yellowcake from Niger, then you're hopeless. This has been widely disproven.

Wrong as hell, as proven in the SCCI report.

4) Plame's identity was not a secret. She had a public persona as an energy consultant working for a consulting company. And yes, part of that persona included the fact that she was married to Wilson. What was secret was that she, and the company she worked for, were CIA.

Correct. However you left out that she worked at Langely. Tough being a covert agent and reporting to Langely every day.

5) There has been no evidence that Plame's identity as a CIA agent (note, I'm not saying Plame's identity, as in her name, dumbasses) was widely known, other than a statement by Novak and followup by the usual right wing talking heads.

Wrong again. Look at the friend of the court, legal filing made by the MSM, particularly the New York Times.

The CIA itself has outed Plame at least twice.

But hey, you win a prize. At least you're not off in some wonderland of fluffy clouds and pink unicorns, which most liberals seem to inhabit.

Congrats.

My gawd, the rightwingnazis on this board are total morons.

TOTAL MORONS.

Where does it ever say that she is a CIA Op?

It never fails to amaze me that the rightwingnutnazis feel that she could not work at the CIA headquarters and be an undercover agent.
You people are totally stupid. How many other undercover agents work there who are undercover? Probably thousands and thousands, because driving there is the same as announcing that you are an undercover agent.

What are undercover agents supposed to do, you fucking morons? Live on a cot there?

Hey JC Christian-

Here's what Denbeste said:

Let's clear something out of the way, first: once the tanks cross the Iraqi border, nothing can save Saddam. The only thing France could do once that takes place which could conceivably bring us up short would be to threaten to nuke us, and that's not going to happen.

Maybe you should have done a web search like I did before saying something that wrong.

Ms. Plame had not been a covert agent for 6 years by the time the Novak article appeared. The current reason given is that the agency brought her "in from the cold" because they feared that she had been outed by Aldridge Aimes. Novak has repeatedly stated that he talked to the CIA and he has stated that they essentially ok'd his use of her identity. We do know that it is illegal for the CIA to use undercover operatives in the United States that would be the job of the FBI. So we know that the 6 years in the states leaves this situation out of the realm of the "Agee" statute, due to the 5 year time limit in that statute. We should realistically wonder why the CIA would have a previously "outed" undercover agent "operating" in the United States. Occam's razor gives us a reasonable answer: Ms. Plame was not an undercover agent. If Ms. Plame was an undercover agent operating in the United States then she and her "handlers" would have been engaging in criminal conduct. That, of course, involves the term "frogwalk".

JS:Plame had the perfect cover as the wife of a diplomat. Once in country she could do her spy thing behind the scenes while Wilson did his diplomat thing in front of the cameras. That's why Wilson denied that she had anything to do with his mission. Think about it for a second. If it were your spouse in the CIA would you draw attention to her or admit her status thus endangering her life?

Given the established public nature of her maiden name documented above, the day Wilson's editorial appeared in the NYT Valerie Plame went from being the wife of Joseph Wilson, former ambassador, retired, to the wife of Joseph Wilson, CIA contractor that investigates WMD and can not keep his mouth shut.

It is clear from the comments of the reichwingnutnazis morons on this board that they are trying to simply abolish the CIA. After all, they don't agree that you can be undercover and work at the CIA too. And so we must abolish the CIA.

You guys are so stupid. But then you are conservatives, and in today's conservamoron right, to be right is to be stupid.

And let's not forget:

NIGER DOES NOT EQUAL AFRICA!

Darwin Finch -

Are we back to semantics and what the definition of "is" is? How refreshing!

Joe Wilson screamed from the rooftops that Bush lied about Niger Uranium. Only for the bi-partisan US Senate Select Intelligence Committee, CIA and British Butler Report... ALL say that Wilson's report SUPPORTED their assessment that Iraq was seeking Uranium. Are they ALL wrong and only Joe right? Seriously?

This is one of the biggest non-scandal scandals in recent history. Watching the seething anger and gotcha politics on the Left is most disturbing and explains why they are losing more and more power.

Pardon me if I find it hard to believe that the Left has a new found concern for the security of our forces when they are leading the charge to show more Abu Graib pictures, NYTimes publishing tail numbers of CIA planes, and giving the Islamofascists moral support with their sloppy rhetoric (comparing the US to Nazis, Gulag Archipelogo...)

Pathetic! But keep on flogging away!

And for all the frucking reichwingnutnazis, most real Americans don't agree with you fascists. Approval of Fascist George's handling of the FakeIraq War is down to 38 %.

I used to agree that the RepukeliKKKan party was not the same as being a fascist. That is no longer true.

Hmmm.

"What are undercover agents supposed to do, you fucking morons? Live on a cot there?"

Internet. Several hundred million square miles of land on planet Earth.

hmmmm.

I know, how about NOT working at CIA headquarters and maybe working ... and this is a stretch I admit ... somewhere other than CIA headquarters?

We are after all talking about 1998 - 2005 right? What? The CIA doesn't understand what a VPN, private secure network or the Internet is?

Well.

Actually now that I consider just how often the CIA has mucked things up. That actually might be the case after all.

In more news of the non-scandal scandal, which most real Americans agree is treason, Rove's henchmen have now been deposed by the Grand Jury.

Time is running out for Traitor Rove and his treasonous conflation of CIA damage and politics.

Yeah, the media has continually cheered for the terrorists over the American soldiers. The Media has been a big enemy of America in the War on Terrorism.

This is a non-scandal, stoked by a bunch of hypocrites fresh off claiming Plame was outed in the mid 1990s.

This is a massive conspiracy against Our President, fueled by hatred.

Far be it from me to intrude, old boy, but this little discussion put me in mind of dilemma faced by my creator, Sir Ian Fleming, during his first, fevered attempts to write about my thrilling adventures. In spite of his eagerness to put his wish-fulfillment fantasies to paper, Sir Ian found himself face-to-face with a seemingly intractable conundrum. You see, he had already decided that he wanted the phonemic expression of my name to be associated in the readers mind with sophistication, danger, and raving heterosexuality. He thought he could achieve this end through neurolinguistic programming, that is, by means of subtle but powerful repetition of my name through the course of my adventures. Alas, every time Sir Ian instructed me to utter the words, "My name is Bond. James Bond," Sir Ian was unable to proceed. My poor creator was beset by the overwhelming yet utterly irrational thought that, because I had revealed my name, I had also revealed my identity as a spy for Her Majesty’s Secret Service. Blind to the obvious truth that espionage requires a break in the link that normally occurs between ones name and ones identity, Sir Ian fell into a deep depression. He was convinced that every time I spoke my name, my “cover,” was, as we say in the fictional spy business, “blown.” Finally, after much anguish, Sir Ian sought therapeutic consultation with another of his characters, the intriguing Miss Pussy Galore. Not many know this, but Miss Pussy was, in addition to being a reformed crime vixen, a certified specialist in rational emotive therapy. This branch of therapy requires the patient to challenge irrational thoughts and specious logic with reason. Over time, Sir Ian finally realized that I could repeat my name endlessly--as long as none of my enemies (or friends, for that matter) knew about my connection to M16. Sir Ian’s breakthrough was what we had all been waiting for. Fortunately for me, and for legions of my fans, I was able to say, “My name is Bond. James Bond," without compromising my fictional mission up until the day Sir Ian died. And, of course, my name will ever be associated with suave sophistication and derring-do. Rational Emotive Therapy, what will they think of next? And if it worked for Sir Ian, who knows, perhaps it might work for you, too.

POed Liberal:

Your comments read like an 8 year old wrote them, and you're calling others stupid? Why don't you take an English class or two and come back after your mom takes your training wheels off of your bike.

Hmmmm.

"I used to agree that the RepukeliKKKan party was not the same as being a fascist. That is no longer true."

That looks fun. Let me try.

"Yeah! And another thing you ChristerFascistNaziHalliburtonChimpies! "

"Down with the BushHitlerHalliburtonPollutionOilMongers!"

"You damn RepubliStaziWarBastardHellPeddlers!"

Frankly I don't see what's so popular about those goofy insults. I suppose it's amusing if your humor is along lines of fondling shit. But what the hell, if it amuses you, go for it. It's not like it'll actually impress anyone.

Sweet! We're on the brink of 'yo mama' jokes!

Gee Kevin, I knew you were looking for ways to get the moonbat readership up, but did you have to make it so easy? Oh yeah a guess you did.

Far as I’m concerned, the real story here is how someone like Carville gets away with the personal attacks he does. He can’t debate a point so he calls his adversary spineless and laughs. I don’t blame Novak one bit for standing up and walking out, I’m surprised he didn’t cold cock him. CNN proves bias through the moderators handling of this sorry excuse for a debate.

VPN, private secure network

Geezus, a semiliterate repukelican moron.

Hey moron, when were VPNs invented? 2000, mebbe? Actually, they were invented in 2000, but have not really been functional until about 2002 or so.

And, bozo, you will recall (or probably you won't being a conservadopo) that the feds are just fucking incompetent computer types. The FBI just spent 170 mill inventing a case-control system which .... didn't work.

So, another totally stupid suggestion from a conservamoron. SIGH!! You can't get blood from a turnip, I recall, and you can't expect a conservaturd to actually think.

Did I miss the part of that entry where it mentioned Mrs. Wilson's employer, cover or otherwise?

No, I did not.

Try again, brownshirts...

Dave, repeat after me

Given the established public nature of her maiden name documented above, the day Wilson's editorial appeared in the NYT Valerie Plame went from being the wife of Joseph Wilson, former ambassador, retired, to the wife of Joseph Wilson, CIA contractor that investigates WMD and can not keep his mouth shut.

Where in the article does it mention that she is CIA?

Conservaturds can't read, clearly.

OK, let's get to the facts. I have yet to see anyone on this or any other board post anything about Valerie Plame's work that didn't seem to be totally informed by spy movies. Do you really think every covert agent is running a dry cleaners with a secret door in the back? Covert agents can be associated with the powers that be in their country. They can even be married to an ambassador. As so many posters have pointed out, people knowing that Wilson was married to Plame was never the issue.The one CIA guy who gets widely quoted as her "former boss," who says she wasn't covert, retired from the Agency in the early 90s. I wouldn't say he's exactly dealing with up to date information.

And by the way, Novak never said he got her name from Who's Who. He said later, in his ass-covering phase, that her name could be gotten from Who's Who. What he actually said was "they gave me her name and I used it."

Also, I'm waiting to see one link to an authoratative source quoting Wilson as saying Cheney sent him to Niger. He has very specifically stated that he never thought Chaney even knew he went.

And he did not report that the Iraqis met with the Niger government about purchasing uranium. The former Prime Minister of Niger told him the Iraqis contacted Niger to talk about trade, which he assumed meant uranium. When they actually met, the Iraqis never brought it up. Funny how they forgot the very purpose of their meeting. And the US ambassador to Niger agreed with his report, BTW.

And to repeat what has been said here earlier, despite the fact that Republican apologists keep saying "everyone knew" she worked for the CIA, please find one post where a friend or neighbor supports that.

Oh, but I forgot; their friends and neighbors, the Ambassador to Niger, all liars. What an easy way to dismiss inconvenient facts.

I enjoy cruising around the blogs as much as anyone, but when you rely on them as your only source of info you're susceptible to a lot of bullshit. Just because something appears on a bunch of right wing blogs doesn't make it fact. Try checking primary sources once in a while.

The most frustrating part is that we keep talking about this stuff, which is exactly what the Republicans want. It doesn't matter if Wilson's the biggest liar in the world. The issue is whether Rove ands/or others in the White House used Valerie Plame's status to try and smear Wilson. Maybe disclosing her covert status was a byproduct, maybe they didn't realize she was covert, maybe they wouldn't have done it if they knew the consequences. That's for Fitzgerald and possibly the courts to figure out. But focusing on whether Wilson made claims he couldn't support, or exaggerated his role, is a classic defensive red herring. It's kind of like having a bunch of witnesses, and a motive, and DNA evidence, and opportunity, but convincing a jury that a murderer is innocent because a glove didn't fit. It's called taking your eye off the ball.

It's not about Plame, ...or Wilson, ...or yellowcake!

Please go back and read Wilson's original Op-Ed and
Novakula's traitorous article. The Deserter-In-Chief
freaked-out and sent KKKarl to destroy the Wilsons
in a desperate attempt to conceal the FACT that the CIA
sent someone (it doesn't matter who!) to Niger--in
direct response to a REQUEST FROM CHENEY'S OFFICE.

All of the White House denials focus on WHO caused
the CIA to go snooping around in Africa--and NOT
about the results of the snooping. (The yellowcake
story had already been exposed as a fraud by the
time Wilson went public.)

So, why is this important? ...because, the MAIN
POINT of Wilson's Op-Ed was that Cheney's office
asked the question, and thus, the answer MUST
HAVE BEEN reported to Cheney's office by the CIA --
no later than mid-March 2002.

Wilson's Op-Ed revealed that Cheney (and the rest
of the criminal administration) KNEW FULL-WELL that
the "nookluler threat" BU__SH__! was a lie BEFORE
they started pitching it to the American people.

So, why "out" Valerie? ...because they needed to pin
the CIA snooping on someone OTHER THAN CHENEY.

...may they all rot in hell,

CBG

"An awkward, unscientific lie is often as ineffectual as the truth."
--Mark Twain

Somebody ought to notify Malkin about this thread.

It would make a great case study for her new book.

Hmmm.

@ POed Liberal

1. "Geezus, a semiliterate repukelican moron."

It Speaks! Astonishing really.

2. "Hey moron, when were VPNs invented? 2000, mebbe? Actually, they were invented in 2000, but have not really been functional until about 2002 or so."

Actually they were invented around 1999. Prior to that you had dedicated lines, which is why I included them. Can you read or do you just fake it?

3. "And, bozo, you will recall (or probably you won't being a conservadopo) that the feds are just fucking incompetent computer types. The FBI just spent 170 mill inventing a case-control system which .... didn't work."

That's because the FBI isn't in the business of computer systems. The intelligence agencies have been for the past 50+ years. The biggest supercomputers in the world are owned and operated by the American intelligence agencies.

You, and I say this politely, schmuck.

4. "So, another totally stupid suggestion from a conservamoron. SIGH!! You can't get blood from a turnip, I recall, and you can't expect a conservaturd to actually think.""

Actually you can get blood from a turnip, if you put it there first. But that's logic, and thus for you, forbidden.

Ahh the wonderfully erratic writings of the verbosely goofy. Amusing only to themselves, and witty in only their minds as well. A characteristic found only in other similar beings, such as the illustrative dung beetle.

Like most liberals, but most especially "POed Liberal", who doesn't seem to understand the apostrophe, the dung beetle spends it's day rolling in a big ball of shit.

Run dung "POed Liberal" beetle, run. The future for you is so bright and beautiful with worlds full of shit ahead of you.

It almost makes me weep with joy.

It doesn't matter if Wilson's the biggest liar in the world. The issue is whether Rove ands/or others in the White House used Valerie Plame's status to try and smear Wilson. Maybe disclosing her covert status was a byproduct, maybe they didn't realize she was covert, maybe they wouldn't have done it if they knew the consequences.

I thought this was all about the fact that she was covert (or not?). What's wrong with smearing Wilson, that is, if Wilson deserves to be smeared? It's not illegal for Rove or Bush to not trust Wilson.

What's really interesting about the who's who entry is the list of Wilson's experience as a diplomat in both central Africa and Iraq.Con the right wing narrative it makes it sound like he was maybe actually qualified for a fact finding mission re: Iraqi shopping for uranium in Africa...

The most frustrating part is that we keep talking about this stuff, which is exactly what the Republicans want. It doesn't matter if Wilson's the biggest liar in the world. The issue is whether Rove ands/or others in the White House used Valerie Plame's status to try and smear Wilson. Maybe disclosing her covert status was a byproduct, maybe they didn't realize she was covert, maybe they wouldn't have done it if they knew the consequences. That's for Fitzgerald and possibly the courts to figure out. But focusing on whether Wilson made claims he couldn't support, or exaggerated his role, is a classic defensive red herring. It's kind of like having a bunch of witnesses, and a motive, and DNA evidence, and opportunity, but convincing a jury that a murderer is innocent because a glove didn't fit. It's called taking your eye off the ball.

This is the Conservaturd Distraction Ploy.

Just keep reciting "Rove is a traitor. Why do repukes support traitors who informed other traitors about the identity of CIA operatives?"

Just don't take the bait. Rove is a SELF-CONFESSED traitor, and that is the only important fact in this whole sordid conflation of treason and politics that is the modern Repukelican party.

[banging my head against the wall]

How many times do you guys have to be told this:

Valerie Plame's name wasn't a secret.

The fact that Valerie Plame was married to Joe Wilson wasn't a secret.

The fact that Valerie Plame worked for the CIA WAS a secret.

This whole thing is a waste of time. The law requires her to have been an undercover agent working overseas within 5 years of the disclosure. Her husband has admitted that definition does not apply to hear. No crime was committed under that statute. Should any administration out covert CIA employees for any reason, whether their husband is a liar or not? No. But under the terms of the statute, no crime was committed, based upon Mr. Wilson's own statements.

Can someone please explain to me how the -

- Senate Intelligence Select Committee
- CIA
- British Government (per the Butler Report)

can ALL say that Wilson's report SUPPORTED their assessment about Iraq trying to get African Uranium, and Joe Wilson is not a LIAR for pushing the opposite impression to the world media? As ususal, the partisan media got ahead of the facts and left many people (who became emotionally invested) in a lurch. I imagine it sucks being on the wrong side of history.

If I had a weak Lefty conspiratorial mind, I would almost have to think that Joe Wilson was a double agent working for the Saudis.

Hmmm.

"What's really interesting about the who's who entry is the list of Wilson's experience as a diplomat in both central Africa and Iraq.Con the right wing narrative it makes it sound like he was maybe actually qualified for a fact finding mission re: Iraqi shopping for uranium in Africa..."

Actually you need to read the SCCI report on this. It turns out that three groups met over Wilson's proposed trip to Niger. INR, WINPAC and, Plame's, CPD.

INR thought it was a complete waste of time

WINPAC thought Wilson didn't have any skills, background or credibility to do the job.

CPD thought, what the hell we don't have any other ideas, so they sent Wilson anyways.

Frankly I've always suspected most of what the CIA does is based on "what the hell, nobody has a better idea" but this is the first official proof I've ever read.

Let me get this straight. We have a supper secret covert agent masquerading as an Ambassador's wife. Works for me!

"Hey Abdul who was that lady you were having lunch with yesterday who was asking all the questions about our nuclear weapons program?

Oh that was the American Ambassador's wife.

Whew. I thought she might be a CIA agent. Good to know she's someone we know we can trust not to share our secrets with the Americans."

GSpot1:

That Plame worked for the CIA might have been a secret, but Wilson irrevocably associated her name with the CIA.
Again, repeat after me:
Given the established public nature of her maiden name documented above, the day Wilson's editorial appeared in the NYT Valerie Plame went from being the wife of Joseph Wilson, former ambassador, retired, to the wife of Joseph Wilson, CIA contractor that goes on WMD hunts and can not keep his mouth shut.

Nowhere in the entry does it state: Valerie Elise Plame, Apr. 3, 1998. Covert Central Intelligence Agency Agent.

The thing about being a CIA employee is to NOT TELL anyone you're CIA. You yourself, doesn't disappear.

Jackass!

Valerie Plame worked for the CIA. She was not a covert operative. If she was, she shouldn't have contributed money to the DNC and Al Gore's Campaign using her real name and the name of the CIA division where she worked. It's public record. Look it up.
Only smoke, here. No fire.

Hmmm.

You know goofing with "POed Liberal" is amusing and all, but this whole thing is a complete waste of time.

All this stuff will come out in due time, and THEN we can all beat each other up over this nonsense.

Until then this is just the rhetorical version of masturbation.

And ultimately just as futile, but hey, go ahead.

Just wash your hands afterwards ok?

bye all, time for dinner.

I'll repeat what many of the more "intelligent" individuals have written here. It was NO SECRET that Joe Wilson's wife was Valerie Plame. Never the issue.

The ISSUE is that Novak revealed her identity as a CIA operative. Her "identity". IDENTITY. Get it? Not her name, her IDENTITY. This book reveals her name, not her identity as a CIA NOC. Novak did that for us, with help from a very vengeful treasonous bastard. If you can't understand that, you are either insanely biased or incredibly stupid. Or both. Probably both.

Here's one absolute fact:

If it had been the Clinton Administration who outed a CIA asset, the wingnuts would be screaming treason for time immemorial.

You know it's true.

But instead they spin as if it's no big deal.

Adiabat,
Do you have a link to that information?

The ISSUE is that Novak revealed her identity as a CIA operative. Her "identity". IDENTITY. Get it? Not her name, her IDENTITY. This book reveals her name, not her identity as a CIA NOC. Novak did that for us, with help from a very vengeful treasonous bastard. If you can't understand that, you are either insanely biased or incredibly stupid. Or both. Probably both.

If you can't understand that, you are a repuke moron. The modern repukelikan party is full of really stupid people, because you need to be stupid to believe the fundamental tenets of Modern Repukelicanism.

It's not that they haven't tried to understand. It's just that they are unable, due to the genes they carry, to understand it.

Yeah, johno, and you'd be spinnin'.

Heres a crazy thing to consider. Maybe Valerie Plame didn't USE her real name when she was doing the whole "undercover agent" thing. Kind of defeats the whole idea that her maiden name being associated with Wilson "outs" her in some way.

The Clinton admin leaked classified info about Linda Tripp when it served their purposes, and I don't recall a bunch of liberals screaming in horror. Yes, I know the leaking of a CIA agent's name (if that was done, not proven yet) is a much bigger deal, but I think it can be said fairly clearly that the Dems are recent converts to the belief in the sacredness of confidential information. And I am a republican and all the republicans I know feel the same way - if anyone in the administration broke a law, they should be sacked. If they leaked truly confidential information, no matter what that information is to punish a political opponent, that person should be sacked. I felt the same way during the Clinton admin. Dems, did you?

Not only did Novak blow Plame's cover, but in the process he ALSO blew the fact that the company she worked for was a CIA front company, potentially endangering the lives of everyone involved there, even if she herself was no longer out in the front lines spying wrt WMDs. Rove's treason has enormous repercussions to our national security and hanging is far too good for him and the rest of this treasonous bunch.

If someone in the Clinton administration had pulled this kind of treason, you moonbats would be screaming for heads to roll. But because it's one of your own, the Rove must be protected. It's disgusting.

Driving to her desk job at Langley every day in her convertible. Yeah - some secret.

Riddle me this:

Q: If an offense was not committed -- during the outing of Plame as covert agent -- why would the CIA ask the DoJ to get involved and launch an investigation?
A: ???

Q: Why -- having completed the first "discovery" and initial investigatory phases of the investigation -- would Fitzgerald continue with the investigation if he felt he did not have the evidence? As an experienced and dogged investigator/prosecutior, he knew that this trial (should it ever come to that) would be under an enormous amount of scrutiny. No investigator would try to pull off a case like this one without ample, non-circumstantial evidence.
A?

What I saw Novak quoted as saying was that he found out from publicly available information, I haven't seen a quote from him that specifically refers to the Who's Who publication. If you can find this I would be interested in seeing it and I would also want to see that he meant it literally, and wasn't saying it dismissively or sarcastically.

If Plame wanted to remain covert why was Wilson being a blabbermouth and a figurehead? Wilson was going to the press with information she gave him and he expects the press not to want to know how he got it?

It has been rumored on at least one site that Novak himself is CIA.

At any rate it is hard to picture Novak looking through a Who's Who book to see who is or isn't a CIA agent, so that he as a "journalist" can come up with a story to write. Believe he must have better sources than the Who's Who book.

aaargh,

Did you have the same outrage when the New York Times had a front page article about the covert CIA Airline? Wild guess on my part, but I guess "NO"

Just remember folks that it is important to continue to recite, at every possible opportunity, that

1) Rove told Novak that Plame was CIA

2) Rove has admitted that

3) revealing a CIA op is treason.

This is the plain fact, and as Karl Rove himself will attest, repeating these facts frequently, unalterably and with great insistence will cement these facts in the public conscience.

Rove, although a traitor, is a good operative. We must use his methods.

"I don't see why every wingnut takes it on face value that she was a "desk jockey." SHE WAS A NOC, PEOPLE!"

Posted by: Michael Scott at August 5, 2005 03:36 PM

No covert agent walks through the front door of Langley everyday. That's why we doubt the status.

The other reason is that the CIA does not just ask you not to print an article outing covert agents, they call your boss and everyone else with authority at your organisation and ask the same thing. They didn't do it here. That also helped lead Novak to think she was not covert.

As to lies, people keep mentioning it but are failing (so far as I've read) to mention the biggie. Joe Wilson kept claiming that Bush lied since the 'Niger letters' were fakes... The guy assumed Bush based his speech on those and several investigations have shown he did not (not only that, but that the intelegence he did base it on was sound). So far that is not a lie on Wilson's part, but his refusal to clear the air and admit his accusation was flawed is a lie (half of you seem to not know any of this which just proves there is a problem)... just as every newspaper article on this that fails to make that clear is misleading if not a lie.

aargh -

Did you have the same outrage when the NYTimes flogged Abu Graib for 2 months on their front pages? If Muslims are going to kill each other over a fake Koran desecration story, you don't have to be a ME scholar to figure out showing America's dirty laundry is going to jeapordize our troops in the field.

Also - did you have the same outrage when Dick Durbin likened our forces to Nazis and Gulag operators on the floor of the Senate?

I think some of you are confusing Novak's term "CIA operative" with "covert agent." He said later he never meant operative to be anything more than, well, a "player" in the CIA (or something like that). Other than that, assuming she was covert, no one outed her until David Corn published his piece about the thing.

And for a covert agent to get in her car every day and drive to HQ makes the CIA look worse than CONTROL.

Actually the points about Wilson lieing are as follows
1. He lied about how he got the mission (denied that he got it through his wife)

Since the CIA claim she had nothing to do with it then how is this proof of a lie? All it does is suggest that if Wilson is lying, then so is the CIA in order to protect him, but why would they do that if he was making their lives harder? Per the statement below, the CIA admits that Cheney was putting intense pressure on them to come up with something even though there was nothing to come up with. That they might have suggested to Wilson in passing, since he was the husband of a company member, that "The VP has been riding our asses on this thing..." could have given Wilson the idea that they were doing this as a result of the VP's constant demands for intel. But Wilson's original statement was that he felt Cheney was behind it which to him seemed logical. He only now makes the direct claim Cheney was behind it because he was being slimed by the WH as a result of it all. This makes the scenario I presented seem more logical.

2. He lied about Niger not being approached to sell the ore to Iraq (his own report said they did)

Our current embassador to Niger stated in the public hearings on the subject that they have no evidence to support any claims to this. They say they only have accusations bordering on hearsay and rumor. The fake Yellowcake memo has been traced back to Italy where the trail goes cold at that point. But because they cannot absolutely deny that there might have been such a meeting Wilson simply chose to take one position rather than the other based on his own understanding of the issue, which is that Niger was eager to get in on the United State's good graces and earn better trade relations at the time. If Iraq had come calling them they'd have told us.

3. He lied about the report itself (source - the congressional report)

What lie? It was his report? Why would he lie about a report he himself created and was under orders to make? What was the lie? When a person goes and carries out an open-aired investigation under orders from the government then that person has to file a report? What's there to lie about?

4. Lied about his wife's covert status (the neighbors all knew who his wife was employed by).

There have been plenty of news stories where his neighbors were interviewed and claimed they were shocked to hear about all of this. The notion that 'the neighbors all knew...' is just conjecture and B.S. so if you can prove this please do. When and where did he lie? Did it ever occur to you that there are in fact laws on the books even now that prevent CIA operatives from revealing the extent of their jobs to their own spouses???? He might not have known everything about what she did. Duh!

5. Lied about the report being sent to the Vice President's office (Mr. Cheney never knew of such a report)

How do you know whether Cheney did or didn't get it? Here the CIA has a report and you don't think they wouldn't have someone at the WH, Cheney included, not see it? There were newspaper articles before the war and during this time where, under condition of anonymity, high ranking people at the CIA stated that Cheney was making routine and daily trips to CIA HQ putting pressure on them to provide evidence if Iraq's WMD and terrorist ties. Not an uncommon thing to do if you ask me and nothing strange about it per say.
Cheney and Bush were desperate to find proof about the WMD and terror ties. And to think that Cheney wouldn't have is a deliberate refusal to consider all options simply so that you can discredit someone who has been proven right about everything so far. No WMD, no ties to terror. NADA!
It's more likely that Cheney lied than Wilson on the subject.

6. Lied about the truth of the 16 words (The British still maintain that their sources show the claim was true).

What lie did he make? So far the war has proven him and so many other people right about everything and this administration 100% wrong on everything.
The British are not making such a claim. Current members of the British government(who happen to be anti-war) all stated that their intelligence groups do not want to appear incompetent so they stick to stories that it might be true, not that it is true.
Even Tony Blair said the claims cannot be substantiated. Besides, followups on this statement suggest that British intelligence always investigate every lead in such areas, even if the leads are obviously bad or deceptive. They passed the lead on so that their CIA counterparts could put their own resources into confirming it but in both cases they could not. What the British are saying now is that they cannot confirm the intelligence of the claim but cannot deny it's possible truth because their job is not to take such risks even if it's obviously the whole thing was a scam. The stakes are too high in this game to ignore anything.

The issue here is that Bush and the rest of this administration were looking for any excuse to invade Iraq. They've wanted this since 1998 and sooner. PNAC documents from members of this admin and it's closest supporters support this. That Wesley Clark stated after 9/11 that he was told to make the claim that Iraq was involved during TV interviews proves this point. They were so eager to go in that they were unprepared when the opportunity did arrive so they had to start making shit up. Egyptian and Saudi intel groups claimed that Saddam was worried after the first gulf war that his weakened military status might encourage Iran to restart the war against them. The intel groups all stated that Saddam loved to brag about shit that he didn't havem including going so far as to brag about WMDs and WMD programs he didn't have so that it might give Iran pause in attacking. That this same chatter was picked up and assumed to be true rather than that of an evil blowhard trying to keep rumors of his military impotence quiet is not illogical.

"Is that enough for everyone? There is more as can be seen at many places on the net.

Yeah. All of them republican supporter run sites. I suggest you follow up on their claims and see where they got the info. It could turn out that it's all being circulated by the same people around and around with no legitimate source that can be substantiated.

Nor should you take anything I say as absolute fact. You should look it all up and follow from one source to another and see where it ends up cause right now the facts support *MY* claims more than they do yours.
But go ahead and think what you want. In this country you're free to be deluded by fascist rhetoric.

MYOB'
.

From http://www.factcheck.org/article337.html

July 14, 2003 – Robert Novak’s " Mission to Niger" column is published. This is the first published mention of Joseph Wilson’s wife’s name, her employment at the CIA, and her role in his trip to Niger. In the sixth of ten paragraphs, Novak writes, “Wilson never worked for the CIA, but his wife, Valerie Plame, is an Agency operative on weapons of mass destruction. Two senior administration officials told me Wilson 's wife suggested sending him to Niger to investigate the Italian report. The CIA says its counter-proliferation officials selected Wilson and asked his wife to contact him.” The column does not describe her as a covert agent, then, but it does name her as “Valerie Plame” – her maiden and cover name. Novak gives conflicting accounts of whether Mrs. Wilson instigated her husband’s trip or was asked by others to do so. (Novak, " The Mission to Niger, ” Chicago Sun-Times, July 2003).

If Valerie Plame was her maiden AND cover name, then the fact that it was published in the Who's Who is entirely relevant.

Vlad D. Inhaler wrote, "As, by the way, is the fact that someone also gave Novak the name of the cover company she worked for, thereby endangering every other operative using that cover."

That's a fair point. By the same principle, the recent NYT story on the CIA's use of private contractors for covert air services, specifically naming the companies and some of the employees, also endangers every person working in those companies (whether on the covert side or the legit side of the company).

Right?

Did you have the same outrage when the NYTimes flogged Abu Graib for 2 months on their front pages? If Muslims are going to kill each other over a fake Koran desecration story, you don't have to be a ME scholar to figure out showing America's dirty laundry is going to jeapordize our troops in the field.

Did you have the same outrage when you found out that in addition to the abuse and torture of MEN at Abu Ghraib, that women and children were also sexually abused at Abu Ghraib? Did you have the same level of outrage when you found out that King Turdeater, our president, is concealing the pictures documenting that sexual abuse?

Prior to the Bush Admin, no US adminstration had ever previously engaged in torture. But now that the Bush Admin has engaged in torture, aren't you ashamed of your repukeliking president?

Wow. Kevin, did you get linked at the DU or something?

"No covert agent walks through the front door of Langley everyday."

The Director of Operations as well as a hundred or so others do. Look him up, you won't find a name.

King Turdeater? Good god. Grow up. Or at least become clever.

If Valerie Plame was her maiden AND cover name, then the fact that it was published in the Who's Who is entirely relevant.

So, really, Valerie's dad outed her by sending out engraved invitations to her wedding.

The plot thickens.

"The Director of Operations as well as a hundred or so others do. Look him up, you won't find a name."

So what? If I followed some guy to work (who happened to be the director)and wrote a story that he worked for the CIA (which would be obvious), I wouldn't be breaking any laws, either.

Novak, in an interview, said his sources had come to him with the information. "I didn't dig it out, it was given to me," he said. "They thought it was significant, they gave me the name and I used it."

- From this article in Newsday 07/22/03

"By the same principle, the recent NYT story on the CIA's use of private contractors for covert air services, specifically naming the companies and some of the employees, also endangers every person working in those companies (whether on the covert side or the legit side of the company)."

Somebody should look into it. If that company's employees were running agents in addition to transporting to torture centers than the leaks would be comparable.