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Osama Who?

Last week, I heard repeated for the nth time the charge that the war on terror is a failure. Why did we invade Iraq, and more importantly, why is Osama Bin Laden still out there somewhere? Where is he? And how can we say we're winning the war if he's still unaccounted for?

I can see that argument. There's a part of me (the liberal, emotional, vindictive, touchy-feely part of me) even sympathizes with it. I want to see his ugly, bearded head on one of the spikes on the White House fence. But my intellect dismisses it as a non-issue.

Osama Bin Laden is not THE enemy. He is not who we declared war against. He is not the be-all and end-all of our foes, and even if he were to surrender today, that would not put an end to the struggle.

More and more, I find myself comparing the War On Terror (we still don't have a snappy name for this yet) to World War II as a model. In that war, we had three major opponents (Japan, Germany, and Italy), two theatres (Europe and the Pacific), numerous campaigns technically outside those theatres (the Battle of the Atlantic, the North African campaign, etc. etc.), and so on. It was, indeed, a World War, eventually touching all six of the occupied continents. (I don't believe the Antarctic was involved, but I'm sure someone will tell me if I'm wrong.)

So far, we've fought two major campaigns -- in Afghanistan and Iraq. We've also won at least one campaign without firing a single shot, in Libya. Qaddafi (or however we're spelling Muammar's name this week) has been desperately trying to backpedal and twist out of his decades of support for terrorism and get all buddy-buddy with the West ever since he saw what happened in Afghanistan and Iraq, even to the point of surrendering every bit of his nuclear program (much further along than anyone suspected) the the United States lock, stock, and barrel and inviting Bush and Condoleeza Rice to come visit him in lovely downtown Tripoli. Mo might have been more inspired by fear then pangs of conscience, but as the old saying goes, "they don't have to see the light, as long as they feel the heat."

Iran, on the other hand, is getting more and more belligerent, and pushing on development of nuclear weapons. I've always liked the analogy of comparing Iran's mullahs to a submarine: as long as they can roughly balance the internal and external pressures, they are OK. It's when they get too far out of whack that they feel most endangered.

Iran seems to be actively seeking out international pressure and condemnation in its quest for nuclear weapons. There is also clear and convincing evidence that they are behind a great deal of the support (moral, financial, and material) for the terrorists in Iraq. I take that as signs that the mullahs of Tehran are feeling less and less secure in their stranglehold over their own people, and are trying to engineer external threats to get the people to rally behind them -- a dubious plan at best.

Some may say that the United States military is stretched dangerously thin right now, but it's the Army and Marine Corps that are doing nearly all the "heavy lifting." We have two whole other branches of the service available -- the Navy and the Air Force. And Iran has a lot of coastline, and we have a lot of air bases all around them. We might not be currently capable of invading Iran, but we are more than capable of causing enough damage and raising enough hell that Iranian dissidents (and there are a lot of them) might be emboldened to challenge the Mullahs -- with some covert and overt support from us. After all, we almost entirely relied on local ground troops in Afghanistan.

So, back to my main point: what about Osama Bin Laden? He is/was the leader of Al Qaeda. Prior to 9/11, they could point to a string of successful attacks against the United States, all carried out without significant retaliation. They had freely bombed the World Trade Center, two of our embassies in Africa, our Air Force accomodations in Saudi Arabia, and one of our warships in Yemen, as well as assisting in the slaughter of our Army Rangers in Mogadishu, all without suffering serious consequences (thank you SO much, President Clinton. Here, have some Kleenex -- your intern missed some spots.)

9/11 -- their greatest triumph -- changed all that. We finally recognized them -- and their ilk -- as the threat they truly were. In short order, we took away their greatest asset, the nation of Afghanistan. We killed or captured their fighters by the thousands. We put bounties on their leaders, and most of them ended up dead or captured. And we so crippled their abilities that their most recent plans involved firing junk missiles at warships that almost didn't notice they were under attack, and numerous other plots that simply fell apart (the recent foiled gas attack on Parliament, for one).

Personally, I thought Bin Laden had been reduced to a smear on a cave wall in Tora Bora a long time ago, but later released audio tapes indicated he survived that. I still think he's dead, and he made sure his body wouldn't be found so he could deny us that victory.

Either way, he's largely made himself irrelevant. He led one faction of the enemy, and that faction has been thoroughly stomped. And we're still stomping, and intend to keep stomping whenever necessary. But, thank heavens, we're not focusing on them single-mindedly.

We've won the first campaign of this war, in Afghanistan. We're winning the second one, in Iraq -- they're no longer a sponsor and haven for terrorists, and we're working to make sure they stay that way. We won a third, in Libya. And Iraq and Syria are getting more and more nervous.

No, we haven't won. Bush predicted this could take up to a decade, or even longer, and we're not even halfway to that mark. But we're doing a hell of a lot better than I thought possible.

(Update: improper word changed in 3rd paragraph -- see comments)


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Comments (43)

"Osama Bin Laden is not our... (Below threshold)
judgement day cometh:

"Osama Bin Laden is not our enemy"....For the love of GOD, I hope you don't mean this.

As to the rest of the write up, Why aren't all republicans between the ages of 18 and 40 enlisting today?

You apparently paint a picture of conflict for quite some time. Logic tells us there is no human way current soliders could sustain involvement they have seen for another 4 years or more.

May I suggest you start here for a lil motivation?

http://operationyellowelephant.blogspot.com/

Osama Bin Laden is not o... (Below threshold)
shark:

Osama Bin Laden is not our enemy. He is not who we declared war against. He is not the be-all and end-all of our foes, and even if he were to surrender today, that would not put an end to the struggle.

You need to clarify. I think you mean that Osama isn't our enemy SPECIFICALLY since we're after a much more broader group, but he most certainly is one of our enemies. Don't ever forget that.

As for this douchebag:


As to the rest of the write up, Why aren't all republicans between the ages of 18 and 40 enlisting today?

If you're not a cop or firefighter, why don't YOU sign up, instead of expecting them to do it for you?

For a lil motivation, start here:

www.gofuckyourself.com

It really, really pains me ... (Below threshold)
Jay Tea:

It really, really pains me when a troll actually makes a point. Luckily, it doesn't happen too often.

I fully intended to write "not THE enemy." Honest. But somehow it came out "not our enemy."

Fixed now.

J.

Another correction: And ... (Below threshold)
joe:

Another correction: And Iraq has a lot of coastline

Presumably you mean Iran there.

Of course Antarctica was in... (Below threshold)
Jay:

Of course Antarctica was involved in WW2! Many of the surviving Nazis fled to a secret, hidden base there as the regime collapsed, and from there continued to deploy and refine their saucer and cigar shaped, fast, quiet aircraft and their associated gravity control technology. From there they monitor the world and subtly manipulate events in the direction of their choosing.

Didn't you know that? Sheesh. People these days; not keeping up on their history.

Getting Bin Laden became im... (Below threshold)
jpm100:

Getting Bin Laden became important to Liberals for one reason only. George Bush, in the emotion that followed 9/11, said we would get Bin Laden. A promise I cringed at because I knew he established an impossible goal. When someone knows you're after them and they have thousands of friends and dollars to support them they can hide forever if they can stand living in a hole for years on end.

The reason Bin Laden became important to Liberals is that they could throw George Bush's words in his face during the election. Otherwise they'd be nipping at the Clinton adminstration for their failure as well.

I have two things to say to... (Below threshold)
Jeb:

I have two things to say to captain trolls-a-lot:
1) "non sequitur" - learn what it means, then use your newfound knowledge to learn when to troll, and when not to troll
2) WTF?

Allow me elaborate: What do you mean when you ask why all Republicans aren't enlisting? I went to the site you linked, hoping for an explanation, but it's pretty much the same crap.

To put it more bluntly, why should everyone enlist? Different people have different talents; and while some people have the talent of shooting the crap out of terrorists while keeping their head as bullets and mortars rain down around them, other people are needed to perform vital functions of our economy here at home.

And your statement about us not having the werewithal (I don't care if I spelled that wrong; I don't have time to go to a dictionary right now) to continue fighting for 4 years, do you have anything to back that up? Even a back-of-the-envelope calculation would be nice.

(Sigh) It's not right for n... (Below threshold)
Jay Tea:

(Sigh) It's not right for neighboring countries to have such similar names. I think the UN ought to do something about that.

2nd correction made...

J.

"Why aren't all republic... (Below threshold)

"Why aren't all republicans between the ages of 18 and 40 enlisting today?"

An excellent idea, judge. For, as the Petulant Left never tires of quacking, only military men (and women) and veterans can morally have a say in the deployment of the armed forces. Therefore, when we invade Iran in 2009 and you whine about it, they can tell you, "Shut up, asshole; you haven't seen the elephant, so your opinion is worthless".

Oh, that wasn't what you meant? Too bad; next time try engaging your brain before starting your mouth.

Set your hook good Jay, we ... (Below threshold)
Darby:

Set your hook good Jay, we got us a live one here!

Hey, Judge...I'm in the mil... (Below threshold)
Cardinals Nation:

Hey, Judge...I'm in the military right now, been so for 21 years...reenlisted 5 times, been in every major conflict since Panama and a bunch of minor ones that you were probably too busy or stoned to have noticed.

So where are you? Tell me, WHERE ARE YOU?! If you're between 18 and 40 and not over here, then you can just shut the f--k up! I have "absolute moral authority" when it comes to matters of putting it on the line, because I'M DOING IT RIGHT NOW!

So answer the question, WHERE ARE YOU?

"Logic tells us there is no... (Below threshold)
B Moe:

"Logic tells us there is no human way current soliders could sustain involvement they have seen for another 4 years or more."

Unless Logic is the name of the alien sitting on your shoulder, what exactly is this assertion based on, and what does it have to do with anything?

While enlistment did not hit recruitment quotas, understand that plenty of fine folks are still enlisting. And even if they didn't, plenty of soldiers have endured 4+ year engagements throughout history.

I would also like to know if you ever plan ahead for anything, or do you just walk around backwards pointing and swearing at the shit you just fell over?

Apparently Port Lockroy in ... (Below threshold)
MH:

Apparently Port Lockroy in Antarctica was used by the Brits in WWII as a base, mainly for refueling from what I've read.

"Logic tells us there is... (Below threshold)
Jay Tea:

"Logic tells us there is no human way current soliders could sustain involvement they have seen for another 4 years or more."

Apparently "Logic" never heard of World War II, when enlistments were "for the duration of the war." I'm sure plenty of Americans saw four years of "involvement." Likewise, British and Germans might've seen six years, and Japanese over ten.

J.

The practical reason why al... (Below threshold)
spider:

The practical reason why all republicans are not enlisting is because if we all left the US no one would be here to keep the engines of commerce going. In addition, many of the fine young men and women who are sacrificing a little of their youth to keep us free are learning valuable lessons that will help them when they get back. Why do you want to deprive them of their opportunity to rise out of poverty? When they get back they will be useful citizens. Liberals love to cripple poor people. In reality it is racist bigotry that drives their liberal agenda.

Try flying the American flag instead of the bloody uniforms of dead soldiers. Most of us send our kids to college for four+ years in hopes they will have a better life. Some kids don't make it. Same thing in Iraq. For the most part the kids come back better for the experience. Iraq is just a little more expensive than college.

We might not be currentl... (Below threshold)
penny:

We might not be currently capable of invading Iran, but we are more than capable of causing enough damage and raising enough hell that Iranian dissidents (and there are a lot of them) might be emboldened to challenge the Mullahs -- with some covert and overt support from us.


I don't envision a protracted land war with Iran. Just some strategical air offenses to clear the way for the large number of Iranian youth to do what they need to do and that is end the oppressive theocracy. The mullahs are widely despised by the young.

Haven't we already covered most of the groundwork of OBL's non-capture and JDC's chickenhawk crap yesterday with our new resident moonbat troll?

The practical reason why all republicans are not enlisting is because if we all left the US no one would be here to keep the engines of commerce going.

Amen to that. But, some of us Republicans are stuck with serious civil assignments such as leftist moonbat containment and it ain't easy on us seniors.

Seriously, folks, OBL is not that important. Like all cults when the head honcho dies the disciples carry on. Anyone exclusively focused on him really doesn't get the WOT or the socialogical phenomenom of cults.

"Apparently "Logic" never h... (Below threshold)
judgement day cometh:

"Apparently "Logic" never heard of World War II, when enlistments were "for the duration of the war." I'm sure plenty of Americans saw four years of "involvement."

What a shame and sham. These yellow spined republicans who refuse to enlist even though they beat their chest for war state-side have been using an analogy of the current Iraq war with WWII.

Only in the sick and twisted minds of people willing to say and do anything to save face would logic like this be made.

For starters the world was truly at stake during WWII. The Iraq war was a selective war based on orchestrated lies. We weren't under " imminent" attack or anything even close. Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11.

During WWII the entire country participated in one form another. GW Bush's Iraq war is a war for our brave soliders and their families only. No one else stateside has been made to sacrifice. Off the top of my head I can count on 2 fingers the sons or daughters of any elected offical who are actually over in Iraq.

The war in Iraq has increased terrorism world wide there by increasing the chance of being hit once again at home.

For the love of GOD, grow a spine and quit making excuses for your cowardice.

BTW, don't confuse "enlistment" with being drafted. As you probably know most during WWII were drafted . In Iraq we are relying on an all volunteer Army that in the words of Gen. Barry McCaffery is on the verge of breaking and can't sustain this level of fighting into next spring.

So ask yourself, why haven't those that support this war with a passion enlisted in any of our armed services today? Could it be that they follow in a long line of tradition starting with their own leaders? GW Bush, Cheney, Rove, DeLay, Bolton, Limbaugh all draft dodgers who supported war but did everything possible to get out of it themselves.

Pathetic beyond words.

May GOD walk with you and bring back to the path of honesty and integrity.

You still haven't answered ... (Below threshold)
Cardinals Nation:

You still haven't answered my question...where are you?

Judgment: I answered... (Below threshold)
Jay Tea:

Judgment:
I answered the "chickenhawk" crap here.

Now find something new to say, or find somewhere else to say it.

If you act soon, it will actually be your choice which happens.

J.

"I answered the "chickenhaw... (Below threshold)
judgement day cometh:

"I answered the "chickenhawk" crap here"

Nice try but you missed the mark.

This isn't about having a differnt opinions.

This isn't about "assailing" the opposition ( can anyone say Rove?).

This is about a selective war based on orchestrated lies by G W Bush.

This is about those you praise GW Bush for getting us into this mess and those who continue to say nothing at all is wrong.

This is about those that treat this war as some kind of Monday night foortball game while thousands of soliders are killed and wounded.

This is about the 10's of thousands of innocent Iraqi citizens who have died because of this war.

This is about our armed services being grossly under quota for enlistment because of GW Bush selective decsion for this war.

This is about Army Generals telling our press that our armed services are on the verge of breaking.

This is about all those who beat their chest state side but are too damn cowardly to enlist.

This is about a large group of draft dodgers creating a war when they themselves were to cowardly to fight when faced with the decsion. This same group of leaders have zero problem sending others into harms way.

That's what this is about. No amount of script writing ( as per your link) will change those facts even if it does make you feel better about yourself.

In the land of Bush's Bizarro World, up is down, round is square and cowards are fearless patriots.

May GOD show you the way to integrity, compassion and honesty.

Judgment, you've posted a d... (Below threshold)
Jay Tea:

Judgment, you've posted a dozen different comments on Wizbang today alone, on at least five different postings, and they all boil down to regurgitating the long-debunked, dishonest, dishonorable "chickenhawk" theme. We've all heard it, and from far more cogent sources than you, and we've all seen it for the scurrilous, repulsive, vile fraud it is. We've Been There, Done That, and Worn Out The T-Shirt.

Find a fresher dead horse to beat -- that one's way past its expiration date. (Although the religious kook angle is a new one to me. You get bonus points for that one.)

J.

"Judgment, you've posted a ... (Below threshold)
judgement day cometh:

"Judgment, you've posted a dozen different comments on Wizbang today alone, on at least five different postings, and they all boil down to regurgitating the long-debunked, dishonest, dishonorable "chickenhawk" theme."

Yes, "debunked" in your mind and in Bush's Bizarro World.

Insulting my belief in GOD is quite ok with me. Let's see what you have to say when Judgement Day Cometh!

God Bless

judgment, what I'd say is "... (Below threshold)
Jay Tea:

judgment, what I'd say is "ick" and "here, have a Kleenex and clean yourself up."

And when I say "debunked," I mean "answered, discredited, folded, bent, spindled, mutilated beyond all recognition, and flushed down the toilet with the other sewage." Go read the piece I linked to and answer that.

J.

Jay, please, for the love o... (Below threshold)
penny:

Jay, please, for the love of God is there anyway that judgement day can goeth? He's like the movie Dawn of the Dead(or maybe I'm thinking of Groundhog Day? Or both?).

I wouldn't mind this pest if he added a fact to his innane dribble or when directly challenged had the integrity(neurons, if I was unkind) to respond to a direct question.

Insulting my belief in GOD is quite ok with me. Let's see what you have to say when Judgement Day Cometh!.....should end all further dialog.

"judgment, what I'd say is ... (Below threshold)
judgement day cometh:

"judgment, what I'd say is "ick" and "here, have a Kleenex and clean yourself up."

"Wizbang"... perfect title

poor penny, she is only com... (Below threshold)
judgement day cometh:

poor penny, she is only comfortable around fellow kool-aid drinkers.

GOD Bless

JDC- Partisan bicker... (Below threshold)
spider:

JDC-
Partisan bickering is the problem. You seem frustrated by the positions taken by us conservatives. You are certainly not helping the situation by looking back at how we got to Iraq. The real question is how do we get home. Think of us as the Cat in the Cat in the Hat. If we leave Iraq before we clean up it will be a real mess. Even in the Cat in the Hat the two kids had second thoughts about playing with the Cat but it all worked out. It will work out in Iraq as well. After all we are the big Cat. Bush may have made a few mistakes along the way but he is getting better. Try to look at the bright side of all this we did get rid of Saddam and his thugs. The glass is half full. Even if gas does end up costing a little more we can control our destiny better with a friendly government in the Middle East. Nothing against Israel but they don't have any oil. If you go back to when the Shah of Iran was our friend the Middle East was a better place. Our mistake was letting the Iranians go extremist on us. We should have come down hard on them and we wouldn't be dealing with Iraq today. We have a representative democracy in the US. We need to make sure the Iraqi's have a representative democracy as well. It should democratically represent our interests and theirs. We can help look out for them and they can look out for us. We just need to make sure the people and the government prosper. I am sure your mother would not want you to tear up someone's house and not clean up. Us Cats need to stick together.

If you're starting to feel ... (Below threshold)
Jay Tea:

If you're starting to feel unwelcome, judgment, I have two things to say:

1) FINALLY.

2) The door's over there.

J.

"If you're starting to feel... (Below threshold)
judgement day cometh:

"If you're starting to feel unwelcome, judgment, I have two things to say:

1) FINALLY.

2) The door's over there."

Oh, I'm not feeling unwelcome. Actually many of your regulars are starting to feel pinched by my direct questioning and comments.

Hope I'm still invited in the future to contribute and provide a more enlightened view on the GW Bush presidency. After all, surrounding oneself with fellow kool-aid drinkers is what got our country into this mess to begin with!

GOD Bless

Not pinched at all. Your t... (Below threshold)
John:

Not pinched at all. Your thick headedness and unwillingness to do anything but spam talking points having little to nothing to do with the subject at hand is annoying.

Folks like yourself who are not here to discuss but rather disrupt make me wonder two things.

Do you feel proud trying to disrupt legitimate discussion (also known as censorship or suppressing dissent)?

The other is wondering if you take it upon yourself to do these things, or do you have friends or associates who encourage or assign you this task.

JDC-I appreciate the... (Below threshold)
spider:

JDC-
I appreciate the positive contributions of your posts. The shouting whining and complaining is not interesting whether its about Bush or Clinton. If you want us to listen don't whine it. I doubt you will change my mind but if you stick around maybe you will see the light at the end of tunnel. Anyway you make us feel better about our positions. Go read The Cat in the Hat again. George Bush is our Big Cat. He is going to clean things up after we have some fun over there in Iraq. Lighten up.

JDC-One more thing t... (Below threshold)
spider:

JDC-
One more thing to consider when you are giving us the Michael Moore chickenhawk squawk. For the sake of the discussion I will concede that you are right about them being draft dodging whatevers. But this is like Monday Night Football and some of the best coaches never played in the NFL. Can you say Vince Lombardi. George Bush is our Vince Lombardi. Lombardi was a great coach even though he never played. I would rather have a guy who believes in what he is doing leading the charge here. Matt Millen was a great player but he can't run the front office of a major league team. Whether you like it or not you are part of our team. Our coach is the Big Cat -George "Lombardi" Bush. Lets get behind him and win.

For once I agree with Jay T... (Below threshold)
cat:

For once I agree with Jay Tea - on one point... Osama bin Laden might be dead. Then again, he might not be, and even if he is dead, there are plenty more where he came from...you're making sure of that in Iraq.

But then, somewhere in the middle of this post, Jay Tea moves on to Iran...and gets hopelessly lost.

Iran is "pushing on development of nuclear weapons," says the Great J. How does he know? This couldn't possible be a repeat of the Iraq WMD fiasco, could it? Not at all! We have reliable information from that terrorist organization... the Mujahedin-e Khalq who first proved their reliability by murdering American civilians. Then, sponsored by Saddam Hussein, they killed Iranian officials (with civilian "collateral damage" - don't you just love that term; much better than dead people) and went on to take part in the massacres of Kurds and Shiites in Iraq in the early 1990s - again for Saddam Hussein.

What charming friends you have.

And, getting back to Iran's nuclear weapons...what does this remind me of? Can anyone remember Curveball? Where's Judith Miller when you need her? Oh, I remember.

Now, I don't claim to know if Iran does or does not intend to develop nuclear weapons. It says it doesn't, but it might be lying. What I do know is that there is no evidence that it is doing so.

One argument in favor of the Iran conspiracy theory is that Iran concealed significant parts of its nuclear program for years. Well, surprise surprise. That program started under the Shah, with the United States' blessing. Then, legal contracts were broken time and time again - under pressure from... hmm... the United States. So they went underground - literally.

Another argument is that Iran's centrifuges had particles of highly enriched uranium on them - at a level that is only used for nuclear weapons, not for nuclear energy. Iran said the centrifuges were second-hand and the particles were there because of the previous owners. Guess what? The IAEA investigated and found they were right. Who were the previous owners? That true and trusted ally...Pakistan. But surely, Pakistan couldn't possibly have illegally developed nuclear weapons and passed on the technology to other countries like...say... North Korea? Of course not - Pakistan's a cuddly friend and ally...

While those evil Iranians...

It's at this point that the right wing of America (which is a disturbingly large number of people) reminds me of one of my patients when I worked in a psychiatric hospital, just before he would work himself up into an epileptic fit.

Let's get a grip on reality. Iran has a lot of oil. But the oil is running out. Countries all over the world are suddenly expanding their nuclear programs - or starting them - because they know the crunch is coming. There's plenty more oil, but virtually all the cheap stuff is finished. The peak in production is coming soon - experts disagree on how soon, but they all agree that it's not far off. China and India are developing at breakneck speed and their energy needs are expanding at a frightening rate - accelerating the depletion of oil.

We desperately need to develop alternatives to oil. Nuclear energy is a highly dubious alternative, but right now a whole lot of countries consider it an important one.

The E3 are trying to bribe Iran into abandoning its quest for the full nuclear cycle, saying they will supply it with the fuel for its energy reactors. Well, scroll back a bit. The reason Iran hid its program for so long was because the US forced other countries to break their contracts.

So, Iran is supposed to believe that that fuel will always be delivered? If it did, it would be a fool, because its own past experience proves that it won't.

As a final word on the nuclear issue, it might be preferable for Iran not to complet the fuel cycle, but it has a perfect legal right to do so. Read the Non-proliferation Treaty and the additional protocol. Then explain to me under what legal pretext should Iran be referred to the Security Council - or invaded. If the United States hadn't tried to isolate Iran so much in the past, it might have agreed to the E3 proposals. Now, there's not a hope in hell.

As for Jay Tea's ridiculous proposal to attack Iran from the air and sea in support of Iranian dissidents...you are mad! The MEK might support you. Some of the Azeris in the north might support you, just as they were used by the Soviet Union. The rest will unite to oppose you. Weren't you watching the recent elections? Your idiotic posturing resulted in a landslide victory for the conservatives. If you invade, you will unite Iranians even more against you.

What's sad is that Iranians used to regard the US as a friend. It was the British they hated - back in the days when Britain was briefly a superpower and was busy stealing their oil and treating them like dirt. Then you did Britain's dirty work for it, overthrowing the democratically elected government and bringing back the Shah. You fought and won a war of independence from the British. Now you behave just like them.

I'm confused. 70%... (Below threshold)
KobeClan:

I'm confused.

70%+ of active duty military vote Republican. Doesn't this mean the Republicans ARE enlisting in the military???

judgment makes a point. ye... (Below threshold)
jerry:

judgment makes a point. yesterday was michael totten demolishes the chicken hawk argument, and then got all petulant when asked why he hadn't signed up. today an even lesser blahger does it here, and again gets all petulant.

looks like all the chickenhawks are going home to roost, with their heads under their wings.

bawk bawk bawk! we are not chickenhawks! we are just not the poor or disadvantaged! we have wives and children and we are best deployed elsewhere! we are actually very brave, we are. WE ARE! we are not chickenhawks! bawk bawk bawk!

Anyway, you feel safer today with bin laden on the loose and Porter Goss saying that there will be a WMD attack within the USA within the next ten years? You're clueless.

Either way, he's largely... (Below threshold)
jerry:

Either way, he's largely made himself irrelevant. He led one faction of the enemy, and that faction has been thoroughly stomped.

3/11, 7/7, thoroughly stomped?

they're no longer a sponsor and haven for terrorists Really, global terrorism is up! Iraq is the breeding ground and training arena. Don't ask me, that's what the Pentagon says.

Where's Jay Tea? Baghdad Bob has taken over! Baghdad Bob, I am warning you, free Jay Tea, or else all the chickenhawks of the 101st are going to come over and demand that someone else do something about this!

JDC.I have one for... (Below threshold)
Todd:

JDC.

I have one for you... Maybe W is fulfilling a prophecy and the world is in the last days... That should make you feel better... Now please stop with whining, its getting old...

- You know all we'd need to... (Below threshold)

- You know all we'd need to do is issue permenent "get out of service to your country" legal draft dodging cards to the little marxist, Uncle Dean ass sucking Leftards, and they'd all sit down, shut the fuck up, and stop shaking....

- But actually we don't want to discourage their braindead attacks on everything American. OCS is treatable, so we need to humor them just enough to keep them doing things like running a lying fuckhead like sKerry, exploting a closet commie like Sheehan, and so forth. They're setting the Democrats up for another ass kicking in 2006 and 2008. Fortunately the Lie'brals never understand that alienating the target audience from the very getgo isn't going to work out too good for the "cause". I hope they keep it coming. I'm loving it.

- And just for the record. I'll write a letter to the WH urging Bush to meet with FalujhaCindy the day that the NYTrash starts running front page photos of all the innocent Iraqi women and children the peace loving Jihadist "freedom fighters" slaughter every day.

To judgement day cometh (ag... (Below threshold)
fatman:

To judgement day cometh (again) and jerry:

I repeat my offer from a previous thread. If defeating Chimpy McHitler Bushco and the Coalition in Iraq is so important to you, then you ought to be over there helping the jihadis anyway you can. You do that, and I'll try to sign up every Republican I can find for a tour of duty with the Army or Marines. (I can't promise I'll go myself until I find out how my new electric wheelchair handles in sandstorms.)

I await your responses.

/sound of crickets.

I still haven't hear... (Below threshold)
B Moe:


I still haven't heard anybody explain why only military vets can advocate the use of the military, but anyone can advocate against. Maybe JDC can ask Logic about that one the next time it fies in his window.


RE: judgement day cometh's ... (Below threshold)
AnonymousDrivel:

RE: judgement day cometh's post (August 21, 2005 10:33 PM)

...Actually many of your regulars are starting to feel pinched by my direct questioning and comments.

Um, right. I'd say that the only thing getting pinched by many of the regulars is their collective nose as they hold their breath and outdebate you with both hands tied behind their backs while you busily pat your own. Careful you don't get too disjointed.

I still haven't heard an... (Below threshold)
Sue Dohnim:

I still haven't heard anybody explain why only military vets can advocate the use of the military, but anyone can advocate against.

Exactly. These leftists think that the only "sin" is hypocrisy, which one can be absolved of if one simply eschews any and all standards of behavior.

In the case of the "chickenhawk" argument, you've nailed it. They take a position that allows them to do absolutely nothing and paradoxically claim superiority from their sloth.

You see this sort of argument coming from them on practically every political issue.

The puppetmasters of the moonbat left plotted out this strategy a long time ago. It was one of several strategies outlined by Saul Alinsky, Hillary's mentor and role model, on how to undermine political opponents by assaulting their character.

These puppetmasters are the ones who write up the talking points for the moonbat masses, distribute them via the MSM and other leftwing organs, where the moonbats pick them up and howl them at anyone within range.

Um, for one, Iraq may not h... (Below threshold)

Um, for one, Iraq may not have had anything to do with 9/11, but for sure Iraq had plenty to do with other terrorist attacks (such as supporting Palestineans who suicide-bomb Israelis, remember Saddam fired off SCUD missiles at our allies in Israel as well). Your arguments are falling far short of their mark, because they are irrelevant. We did not go into Iraq because "THEY CAUSED 9/11". We went into Iraq because "THEY WILL CAUSE ANOTHER 9/11".

I rest my case.




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