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Blanco is Toast. Game. Set. Match.

(I'm breaking my blogging break because this is just too important to miss.)

For all of you who keep blaming Bush and trying to protect Blanco, I'm afraid I have some bad news for you. Blanco got caught on tape by CNN admitting she did not ask for Federal Troops. When she didn't think the cameras were live, she made the startling admission to her press secretary.

AND that's not even the worst of it....

Why didn't she ask for federal troops? As Blanco explained to her press secretary as she wiped away tears, if troops came in, they would "put good people in jail."

She was more worried about the "poor looters" than she was the victims. This is outrageous.
SHE WEEPS AT THE THOUGHT TO THROWING LOOTERS IN JAIL!

Then she tells her press secretary, "I really need to call for the military, I mean, I really should have started that in the first call." BUSTED!

When Miles O'Brien asks her what day it was she asked for Federal troops, she tried desperately to stammer her way thru the answer like a 9th grade foreign language student trying to mumble their way the the oral part of a final exam. When pressed for an answer, Governor Blanco breaks down and has an Admiral Stockdale moment, replying:

stupidbitch.jpg
"I don't even know what day it is."

Thank goodness The Political Teen got the damning video.

While she was sheading tears over the poor looters going to jail, they were destroying not only the city itself but its reputation worldwide. Incompetent does not even begin to describe this woman. I truly hope this woman runs for reelection... I'll personally buy the air time to play this video. If you ever doubt the importance of your vote, watch this video.

Related Update: If you missed Mary Landrieu getting absolutely taken apart by questions she can't answer on FOXNews Sunday, The Political Teen has that one too. It's a don't miss.


TrackBack

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Blanco is Toast. Game. Set. Match.:

» respublica linked with One good thing anyway

» Joust The Facts linked with First Landrieu, And Now Blanco

» Literal Barrage linked with Ouch.

» A North American Patriot linked with SHAME

» Random Numbers linked with Katrina: Remember Rep. William Jefferson?

» Tannerball linked with Yikes.

» Milblog linked with Good lord.

» RightPundit linked with Gov. Blanco's Incompetence on Tape

» Reaganites Unite! linked with Gov. Blank-O CAUGHT On Tape!

» http://acertainslantoflight.blogspot.com/2005/09/houston-police-chief-buckles-under.html linked with SPEAKING OF "BOTCHED" RELIEF EFFORTS

» Controversy.com linked with Blanco's blunders - continued

» Mister Snitch! linked with Here comes the story of the Hurricane

» Eclipse Ramblings linked with Blanco caught on tape

» Inside the Mind of the SOH linked with Admiral James Stockdale was a Great Man!

» No Oil for Pacifists linked with Cliff Notes on Katrina

Comments (175)

Did Blanco take the right s... (Below threshold)
Oh Dear:

Did Blanco take the right steps, at the right time, to ensure Louisiana would get all the assistance they needed from the Feds? According to the Congressional Research Service, that's exactly what she did. Did the Feds come through? Welll you can make up your own mind about that...

http://www2.dccc.org/docs/conyersgaokatrina.pdf

Yeah now THAT is it - game set and match.

Its only 'game over' if the... (Below threshold)
Toby928:

Its only 'game over' if the deceased can be prevented from reregistering and voting in the next election.

Tob

Blanco, the choice of the Undead.

"Did Blanco take the... (Below threshold)
B Moe:


"Did Blanco take the right steps, at the right time, to ensure Louisiana would get all the assistance they needed from the Feds?"

Sure, if you think $9mil in clean up money was all they needed. Since she has been promised over 5000x that you would think she would stfu now wouldn't you?

What we see here is that Bl... (Below threshold)
s:

What we see here is that Blanco thought that she didn't have to spell things out to the POTUS. "Give me everything you got", says it all. As the first poster also eluded to, a non-partisan comittee has also reviewed Blanco's response to crisis, and has declared she did everything she could to the best of her abilities.

"that's exactly what she di... (Below threshold)
Toby928:

"that's exactly what she did. Did the Feds come through? Welll you can make up your own mind about that"

Good link on the docs. It would appear, from a casual reading of the doc, that the governor did jump through the right hoops to get federal aid in motion.

Good. Federal aid came within 72-96 hours of the storm. Seem like a legal touching of all the bases has occurred and no trials will be required.

Also good.

Tob

There was a caller on Hanni... (Below threshold)
Alex:

There was a caller on Hannity yesterday that was trying to wave this letter around as some kind of vindication of Blanco's actions, much as you are - it's nothing of the sort.

If you actually read the letter in the link you provided, the ONLY conclusion it reaches is that Blanco and Bush followed the proper protocols necessary to declare Louisiana a disaster area. It says nothing about whether the governor followed the state's own emergency plan, or whether the governor deployed the National Guard in a timely manner, or whether the governor properly asked for federal troops, or anything like that.

I saw that interview live o... (Below threshold)
Jim Hines:

I saw that interview live on CNN. My jaw still hurts from hitting the floor.

"Miles, I'm confused and in a daze."

That was her response to the question when she asked for federal troops.

If Bush had said this on camera there would now be a TV channel devoted entirely to replaying that clip 24/7.

The only lesson to be learned from all of this is to depend on yourself first and any level of government as a last resort.

Oh Dear,From that ... (Below threshold)

Oh Dear,

From that linked document we get that both Blanco and Bush took the rights steps in declaring emergencies and what not. But what we dont get is verification that Blanco, did, in fact, initiate the state emergency plan, only that the letter she sent the feds indictaed she had, all evidence to the contrary.

FEMA now sees itself as an ... (Below threshold)
tubino:

FEMA now sees itself as an adversary to the state. Former FEMA officials have explained how they used to be on the ground, in a local control room WITH local officials, to solve problems WITH them, using their shared resources.

That's what FEMA used to do. It worked. Now stories keep coming out that the new Bush-corrupted FEMA couldn't even deliver basic medical supplies because it insisted on being FAXED requisitions -- and fax machines were unavailable.

Remember that while this was going on, the Wash DC decision makers were parsing the niceties of political advantage and image. The last thing on their minds was actually solving the problems. It was just another day of Mayberry Machiavellis looking for a political advantage -- which is all they can do.

The real crime here is that the National Response Plan adopted in Dec. 2004, was designed SPECIFICALLY to do away with the red tape and bureacracy it imposed. I actually read the relevant passages -- the whole thing is online as a PDF.

Blanco could have been drowned, incapacitated, or all her resources turned into radioactive debris -- and the National Response Plan gave FEMA a way to deal with it. But they didn't.

They were supposed to work WITH the officials to overcome anything, including supposed incompetence. They didn't.

DHS and FEMA failed. Bush was AWOL, MIA. He was NOT on the phone demanding to know why the disaster was unfolding. He was NOT asking what was preventing use of National Guard etc. to maintain order.

He just ... had other priorities. And all these "revelations" just show why FEMA and Bush failed.

I love how her tone has cha... (Below threshold)
rick13:

I love how her tone has changed from blame Bush to we both made mistakes. Blanco is a sad joke!

Oh Dear,Unfortunatel... (Below threshold)
Steve L.:

Oh Dear,
Unfortunately, the document you cited says absolutely nithing about Governor Blanco requesting federal troops. Had you actually read through the various documents, you would have seen that the only provision concerning troops is section 5170b(c)(1) which states:

"During the immediate aftermath of an incident which may ultimately qualify for assistance under this subchapter or subchapter IV-A of this chapter, the Governor of the State in which such incident occurred may request the President to direct the Secretary of Defense to utilize the resources of the Department of Defense for the purpose of performing on public and private lands any emergency work which is made necessary by such incident and which is essential for the preservation of life and property."

In the voluminous pile of documents attached to Conyers' request, there is no such rquest from Governor Blanco. There are numberous documents asking for FEMA's help, but none asking of the DOD's help. Clearly, the lawmakers intent in the Stafford Act was to separate the two requests and require the Governor to specifically request military support. Since the scene of federal troops entering a state and enforcing laws should be chilling to all citizens, this is a prudent separation. There's a big difference between "Send me food and water" and "Send me federal troops." Clearly, Governor Blanco knew that or she wouldn't have made the comment that the cameras caught.

As a side note, the document you cited did not draw any conclusions about Blanco's request. It was merely a recitation of applicable law and a series of documents culled from the State of Louisana web site and other communications between Louisiana and the Feds.

By the way, does anyone thi... (Below threshold)
tubino:

By the way, does anyone think it telling that the rightwing keeps viewing a disaster as a "game"? A "blame-game"? Or as "game, set, match"?

It's not tennis, and it's not just a political game. It's life and death.

Why can't the rightwing understand that?

Why can't they understand that in a city of half a million, a sizeable number are not able to take care of themselves for a week without electricity? Nursing homes, hospitals, etc...

Sure, if you're healthy and reasonably well-off, you probably can take care of yourself. But plenty of people -- including tourists with some resources -- were UNABLE to leave. Officials with guns kept them from leaving.

Is this still not clear?

I heard "put good people in... (Below threshold)
John:

I heard "put good people in jeopardy" not jail, but the clip is damning enough as it is...

Spin, spin, spin, boys and ... (Below threshold)
Phaedrus:

Spin, spin, spin, boys and girls. For all the good it will do you this time. I'd be surprised if Blanco and Nagin don't go down by the next election at the latest. But Bush is going down no matter what. There's no way you'll spin his scrawny but out of it this time.

From Steve L: "Clearly, the... (Below threshold)
tubino:

From Steve L: "Clearly, the lawmakers intent in the Stafford Act was to separate the two requests and require the Governor to specifically request military support. Since the scene of federal troops entering a state and enforcing laws should be chilling to all citizens, this is a prudent separation."

And that's why Bush and FEMA, to their credit, were on the phone constantly, working with state and local officials, to figure out the best legal way to solve the problems, from the moment Bush invoked the Stafford Act.

Except, of course, that none of that happened.

I heard "put good people... (Below threshold)
Craig:

I heard "put good people in jeopardy" not jail, but the clip is damning enough as it is...

I was just about to say that. I mean, what she's saying is treasonous. An elected official, stating that the intervention of our military would kill Americans. WTF?

By the way, does anyone ... (Below threshold)
joe:

By the way, does anyone think it telling that the rightwing keeps viewing a disaster as a "game"? A "blame-game"? Or as "game, set, match"?

Mayor Nagin has blamed the feds from Day 1, even though he ignored his own disaster plans and left hundreds of buses unused that could easily have moved tens of thousands out of the city.

The blame game, from the beginning, was started by the left, usually by failed local officials.

Again, Steve L: "Since the ... (Below threshold)
tubino:

Again, Steve L: "Since the scene of federal troops entering a state and enforcing laws should be chilling to all citizens, this is a prudent separation."

Yup. National Guard should be used FIRST, and exclusively if at all possible.

Did Blanco have sufficient LA Natl Guard, that should contact and get there quickly? No. Could she get them from Iraq? No.

Did FEMA have powers to request or deny other state Natl Guard? Yes. Did they help or hurt here?

Anyone? Anyone? Did FEMA accept or refuse help offered by other states?

Did Blanco have authority to accept New Mexico Nat Guard? Not without Wash DC paperwork -- held up till THURSDAY.

If FEMA had done its job, active troops would never have been considered.

Blanco might be toast, but ... (Below threshold)
franklin:

Blanco might be toast, but Bush is bigger toast.

>By the way, does anyone th... (Below threshold)
A Peeved Paul:

>By the way, does anyone think it telling that the rightwing keeps viewing a disaster as a "game"? A "blame-game"? Or as "game, set, match"?

>It's not tennis, and it's not just a political game. It's life and death.

Yeah no shit asshole. And while this bitch was crying about the poor looters people were getting killed. You're apparently too fucking stupid to figure that out.

Yes this is life and death... The life and death of some of my friends and while the Fucking Democrats have tried to blame Bush for this from day one, we now have an admission that SHE DID NOT CALL FOR TROOPS... Further she did so KNOWINGLY.

Meanwhile Bush is trying to send troops and she says "Gimme 24 hours I'll get back to you."

What part can't you delusional left-wingers understand?

Jesus what about this guy?<... (Below threshold)
Jim Hines:

Jesus what about this guy?

http://tinyurl.com/apmjq

Rep. William Jefferson visited his New Orleans home after Hurricane Katrina with the assistance of National Guard troops. (ABCNEWS.com)

In an unrelated matter, authorities recently searched Jefferson's property as part of a federal investigation into the finances of a high-tech firm. Last month FBI officials raided Jefferson's house as well as his home in Washington, D.C., his car and his accountant's house.

joe repeats the old canard:... (Below threshold)
tubino:

joe repeats the old canard: "Mayor Nagin has blamed the feds from Day 1, even though he ignored his own disaster plans and left hundreds of buses unused that could easily have moved tens of thousands out of the city."

Except that buses need drivers. He already had drivers on a thousand CITY buses, but didn't have drivers for school buses. Many had already left.

Flawed plan? Sure. Nagin is a DINO who had been a republican till just before he registered to run -- as a dem. Still thinks like a repub, and didn't have enough resources for the poor to evacuate. Fine.

That's why the Natl Response Plan (NRP) should have been followed, and FEMA should have had folks in there saying Get those people out! You need drivers? We'll get drivers! WE'll get volunteers flown in!

Of course, none of that happened.

A peeved paul: "Meanwhile B... (Below threshold)
tubino:

A peeved paul: "Meanwhile Bush is trying to send troops and ..."

Bush shouldn't have been trying to send troops. (Got a link for that revelation?)

Sending troops should be a VERY last resort. If FEMA had done its job, active troops would never have been considered. See above.

Did you realize that Bush tied up real firemen for his photo-ops while people were dying?

Did you realize that Bush's photo-ops meant that rescue craft had to be grounded?

Do you realize Bush put his image ahead of the lives of those people?

Am I the only one who has n... (Below threshold)
Paul:

Am I the only one who has noticed the the liberals are going postal in this thread talking about everything EXCEPT Blanco's admission she did not call in troop?

Face it- the gig is up. She got caught on tape. The whole "He said, She said" is over. She busted herself.

"But Bush is going down no ... (Below threshold)
Toby928:

"But Bush is going down no matter what."

LOL, sure he is; Jan 20th, 2008. Its funny that Democrats are still spending so much effort on the one Republican who can't run for President.

Mike

Phaedrus and Franklin,<br /... (Below threshold)
Robert:

Phaedrus and Franklin,
I am confused about what you mean about Bush "going down" or being "toast." Do you think that he is going to be impeached because of Katrina? Last time I checked, he will not be running for re-election for an unconstitutional third term. If you Bush-haters spent more time trying to advance positive adgendas rather than fighting a battle you lost in November '04, maybe you could win back a majority in Congress. I don't understand the gleeful obsession with anything that hurts Bush regardless of the consequences to the American public and I doubt that attitude is going to win you any converts.

I noticed it too. Heads exp... (Below threshold)
jmaster:

I noticed it too. Heads exploding, as usual.

Spin, spin, spin, and play the blame game.

Its all the left has to offer anymore.

This is funny to watch...</... (Below threshold)
Alex:

This is funny to watch...

It's FEMA's fault!!
It's Bush's fault!!
It's FEMA's fault!!
Ok, Nagin might share some blame, but, but... he's not a REAL Democrat!

How long until turbino starts calling Blanco a DINO?

>How long until turbino sta... (Below threshold)
Paul:

>How long until turbino starts calling Blanco a DINO?

heh- At that point, I'll ban him for his own mental health. lol

Uh, kids, you can check Nag... (Below threshold)
tubino:

Uh, kids, you can check Nagin's history here yourselves:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Nagin

Before his election, Nagin was a member of the Republican Party and had little political experience; he was a vice president and general manager at Cox Communications, a cable communications company and subsidiary of Cox Enterprises. Nagin did give contributions periodically to candidates, including President George W. Bush and former Republican U.S. Representative Billy Tauzin in 1999 and 2000, as well as to Democratic U.S. Senators John Breaux and J. Bennett Johnston earlier in the decade.

Days before filing for the New Orleans Mayoral race in February 2002, Nagin switched his party registration to the Democratic Party.

Jeez. The things you don't learn in the MSM, huh?

Spin it every which way you... (Below threshold)
Steve L.:

Spin it every which way you like, but Blanco stated that she should have asked for molitary support from the start. Period. End of sentence.

She knew she didn't. Her press secretary knew she didn't. All this BS about "send me all you've got" is just that. She had no clue what was going on and, to an extent, that was understandable. He state had been "nuked." It's hard to communicate and gather information when there is no communications infrastructure.

However, the Feds had even less information because they were getting their info from her. Does "send me all you've got" mean that she needs food, water and transportation or does it mean she needs a B-52 strike? In fact, every recitation of that conversation that I have read states the same thing. Blanco was asked specifically what she needed and she couldn't answer except to say "all you've got."

I'm sorry. It sounds to me like she was in over her head. I am not in any way absolving anyone else of blame, I am only talking about Blanco. Personally, I would have thought that she would have asked someone on her staff to research the law concerning disaster declarations prior to the hurricane striking. Maybe she did and in the heat of the moment, she forgot everything. That's possible, but that's also why you have aides. They watch out for the details. Someone was able to compile all the financial data for the request and was able to figure out what the state could provide. All of that was in the Stafford Act. Apparently, they just didn't bother to read that part.

To all of you that stated that the Feds should have blown off the law and just sent "stuff," I say "hardy-har-har." I can only imagine the hue and cry had the President done that. The Left would have grabbed that stick and proceed to beat the President about the head with it over not following the law. Even if the response had been perfect, you guys wanted to bash the President over this one way or another. It just didn't matter what.

So let me get this right. ... (Below threshold)
Carters12:

So let me get this right. The Federal government did "the right thing" by sitting on it's hands and waiting for her to call. Wow, sounds like a passive agressive relationship to me.

I'd prefer it when the experts call the victims and say - here's what you need.

Do you just hate it when somebody say, I've been thinking about you for the last year... why didn't you call me.

Pick up the phone! Make the goddam call yourself, you're supposed to be the boss.

So now you think it's a goo... (Below threshold)
tubino:

So now you think it's a good idea for the Feds to send in troops, and just bypass that whole National Guard thing, right?

Still waiting for Peeved Paul to send a link for his revelation that Bush was trying to send in troops. Was there a phone call? What did he try to do?

So FEMA was holding up Natl Guard from New Mexico while Bush wanted to send in active troops. And you all think that's a GOOD THING.

Fed troops is a dangerous precedent. But this admin, with all its rhetoric about states' rights, has you all ready to give the ultimate totalitarian power to the executive branch: send in fed troops to quell domestic uprising -- and all because of a natural disaster?

Sending troops should be a VERY last resort. If FEMA had done its job, active troops would never have been considered. See above.

BUSH: Hey, the terrorists hate us for our freedoms! That's why we have to appease them by taking away civil liberties and constitutional freedoms as fast as possible! I'm trying to send in federal troops while FEMA holds up aid, so I'm doing my part! Support me or the hurricanes win!

What do you guys make of Bush's apology, and Brownie's heckuva job resignation?

"Days before filing for the... (Below threshold)
Toby928:

"Days before filing for the New Orleans Mayoral race in February 2002, Nagin switched his party registration to the Democratic Party.

Jeez. The things you don't learn in the MSM, huh?"

Actually, that's common knowledge. Your point is?

Tob

Once again, in their mad ra... (Below threshold)
Mikey:

Once again, in their mad rage to destroy President Bush the loony lemmings of the left lept off the ledge.
And the Smirking One eludes their grasp.

"Darn you, Chimpy! Darn you to Heck!" cry the lemmings as they fall into the sea.

tubino! you wear your ass f... (Below threshold)
jab:

tubino! you wear your ass for a hat. get a clue person, you think your crap for discussion is deserving at this level. it's not. it is lower than a bucket of white whale shit, at the bottom of the deepest part of the deepest ocean on this planet. you don't deserve to debate at this level, period.

Dudes....seriously. All of ... (Below threshold)
Jim Hines:

Dudes....seriously. All of you....get over your democrats/republicans bullshit. Because that's what it is. If this catastrophic event does not prove that to you once and for all then what will?

The "National" hurricane center....or whatever it is called did it's job. It told everyone that a monster storm was coming and to get out of it's way. What more do you want?

The mayor gambled on an alternate plan than the one they had spent millions developing and lost, the govenor collapsed under the weight of her own incompetence and Bush did not stay on top of nor take a proactive approach the situation.

My heart, sympathy and charity go out to the old, the infirm and the children.

The able bodied citizens of New Orleans who remained behind cracked at the first inclination. The looting began the moment the streets flooded. Are you telling me you're starving to the point of desperation on day one? The problems at the Superdome started the night of the storm when the power went out? The effects of a shallow pop culture built on "get mine or die try'n" were on display for all to see.

In the grand scheme of things, considering the scope of this natural disastor, it's amazing how much has been acomplished in a very short period of time.

What is truly pathetic is the political jockeying.

The billions being sent to the gulf coast will be pilfered and wasted and mispent. Some jackass will call for another messy federal bowel movement officially called the Department of This or That.

And possibly this year...but most certainly next year another hurricaine will hit some place and destroy more property.

At which time all the usuall suspects will blow their load all over our asses once again.


So now you think it's a ... (Below threshold)
Alex:

So now you think it's a good idea for the Feds to send in troops, and just bypass that whole National Guard thing, right?

Isn't the entire point of this post to remind people that the President can't just send federal troops to a state without a request from that state's governor (which everyone agrees is a Good Thing), and that Blanco knew this, and that Blanco didn't request those troops in a timely manner?

Who in this thread is saying the President should have just sent in troops w/o a request from the governor (invade Louisiana, in other words)? I missed that comment...

The mayor gambled on an ... (Below threshold)
Alex:

The mayor gambled on an alternate plan than the one they had spent millions developing and lost, the govenor collapsed under the weight of her own incompetence and Bush did not stay on top of nor take a proactive approach the situation.

Bingo. Couldn't have said it better myself.

Slightly OT.Seriou... (Below threshold)
kbiel:

Slightly OT.

Seriously Paul, how could the looting ruin the reputation of NO? If anyone did not think of NO as a dangerous and corrupt city, then they swallowed the NO vistors bureau PR hook, line, and sinker.

Don't get me wrong, I like NO and enjoyed visiting it from time to time. But, I was quite aware that there were areas of NO where a tourist could safely visit and there were other areas where one was not welcome and there were tourist areas where one did not stray from the beaten path AT ALL unless suicide appealed to you.

My sincere hope for NO is that now that the light is on, the cockroaches will scatter. That may not happen as couple of the biggest cockroaches, Blanco and Nagin, are trying to deflect the light from themselves and their cronies onto President Bush. Unfortunately, the MSM, gripped by a full-blown case of BDS, are aiding and abetting them, but thankfully Blanco, Landrieu, and Nagin are idiots. So, I continue to hope for the best.

So let me get this right... (Below threshold)
Alex:

So let me get this right. The Federal government did "the right thing" by sitting on it's hands and waiting for her to call.

Of course not. They should have unilaterally invaded New Orleans without permission from either the mayor or the governor. The 82nd Airborne dropping in via parachute would have been a sight to behold.

Paul:Let me know i... (Below threshold)
leelu:

Paul:

Let me know if they do run. I'll help pay for the airtime.

Think about what you... (Below threshold)
B Moe:


Think about what you would have considered an acceptable outcome before hand, as far as deaths, casualties, handling the displaced, etc.

Look at the projections the computer models predicted before hand.

Now don't you think we maybe ought to all chill the hell out and thank God it turned out as good as it did, and start appreciating the people busting their ass to fix things instead of being pissed that the world isn't perfect?


Of course not. They shou... (Below threshold)
Carters12:

Of course not. They should have unilaterally invaded New Orleans without permission from either the mayor or the governor. The 82nd Airborne dropping in via parachute would have been a sight to behold.

Um... no I'm simply suggesting that a telephone works both ways. If you are concerned, you make the calls, if you aren't you wait for them.

Just think it's a piss-poor excuse that's all

Is this really just a game ... (Below threshold)
eddie:

Is this really just a game to you? The real problem that all of this shows is that the current administration has turned statesmanship into game playing, with winning the game being the end in itself.

does anyone think it odd th... (Below threshold)
kate:

does anyone think it odd that a barge that was supposed to have been moved well in advance of the hurricane slammed into the levee the day AFTER the hurricane? Don't want to be paranoid, but what better terrorist act than to take advantage of chaos to wreak destruction. I have a great imagination, but this doesn't smell right.

When did y'all start... (Below threshold)
B Moe:


When did y'all start letting minors in here? Is nobody checking ID's at the door?

Mississippi and Alabama wer... (Below threshold)

Mississippi and Alabama were hit, too, perhaps harder. How was the response there? The difference appears to be the governor. Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour: "The federal government came in here from the first minute--in fact, in advance. They have been tremendously helpful."

To further my point about m... (Below threshold)
Carters12:

To further my point about making the call:

Just read about GWB's phone log prior to the hurricane...

Calls made to Governers

Barbour 3
Blanco 0

I rest my case

Turbino...here Turbino...yo... (Below threshold)
JAT0:

Turbino...here Turbino...you need some nice koolaid!

Did Blanco have su... (Below threshold)
rayabacus:
Did Blanco have sufficient LA Natl Guard, that should contact and get there quickly? No. Could she get them from Iraq? No.

Tubino, that's already been debunked, by no less than the partisan LATimes. She had plenty of LANG that she never called up. Get your facts straight, idiot.

Did FEMA have powers to request or deny other state Natl Guard? Yes. Did they help or hurt here?

I don't even know why I bother with this. You're so fucking stupid that you actually believe that FEMA has control over the National Guard. God, what an idiot!! Do some fucking research. Even the head of DHS, literally and legally, has NO AUTHORITY, over the lowliest private either in the National Guard or Title 10 Troop (Active Duty).

If you want to be taken serious, educate yourself so you can have a point to argue. Spouting incorrect assumptions as facts lables you as nothing more than a Left tit mouthpiece - one without a brain.

I live in NC where Ophelia ... (Below threshold)
NC:

I live in NC where Ophelia is about to hit. This is only a CAT1 and here what our Gov. says:
"If you have not heeded the warning before, let me be clear right now: Ophelia is a dangerous storm that is likely to cause flooding from storm surge in rivers and sounds, power outages and property damage over the next 24 to 36 hours," Easley said.

"The slow-moving nature of this storm may increase its impact along our coast. I ask everyone to remain vigilant and to follow evacuation orders and other directions issued by state and local officials."

People have left. I know if a CAT4-5 were coming we'd all leave. People in NOLA should've listened and made plans. . .

Actually, one of the bigges... (Below threshold)
Steve L.:

Actually, one of the biggest differences in the response to Katrina between Blanco and Barbour came from their use of the National Guard. Both states have Guard deployed so don't start any of that nonsense.

Barbour positioned his Guard toward the coast to enable them to better react to the storm. He knew it would put them somewhat in harm's way, but he also wanted a quicker response. Blanco held her Guard back in realtive safety until after the storm passed then moved them in. It took longer for them to react and, thus, longer for them to restore order.

It is amazing to me how quickly people forget the actual events that occurred and remember only the spin from later. For example, everyone *knows* that the people at the Superdome were abandoned until Friday. If you actually look back at the reports at the time, you will see that the levees broke on Tuesday and flooded NO. Wednesday, buses showed up to evacuate the Superdome but were turned away by gunfire. Rescue operations were halted because of gunfire. Thursday, buses once again rolled in and started evacuating people.

The reason politicians lie and flip-flop is that they know that the American people have an attention span of a gnat, and for the most part, they're right. People can't remember events that they witnessed on television from two weeks ago, so they count on someone to tell them what they saw. Too often they rely on the exact wrong people for that history. The argument over this video proves that. Here you have a person making a statement on camera about an event. It's not a second-hand report, it's her saying it. Yet, she has her spin machine out there spinning and spinning and spinning and people eating her story up with a spoon.

People can reasonably disagree abou policy or execution of a policy, but how in the world can you deny that Blanco said what she did?

It's like the old saying, "Who are you going to believe: me or your lying eyes?"

Now the liberals are accusi... (Below threshold)
Banned4Logic:

Now the liberals are accusing us of placing blame...funny how the tides change. Weren't they JUST pointing fingers at Mike Brown/FEMA, Bush et al? We have an ADMISSION on video and they now want to accuse US of pointing fingers? You can always tell where the truth lies...it's right under the squirming liberal. Blanco dropped the ball because her bleeding heart pumped peanut butter for the LOOTERS, the mayor REFUSED to use the resources at his disposal to evacuate because he didn't want to dip into HIS emergency fund...to me these are two key pieces in the puzzle. It's one thing to be unpreparred, but these two had complete control over when and where and they STILL fumbled...horribly and with devastating results. Just further proof that a liberal mind is a terrible thing...

So Blanco is being held acc... (Below threshold)
TheRightIsBlind:

So Blanco is being held accountable! GOOD! This is what we the people should do. Even if right wing wacko want to play it down by calling childish names like ring around the posey or the BLAME GAME.
Politicians are accountable! That includes the bumbling cold hearted fool you worship, Bush.
Bush may have LEGALLY performed according to the letter of the law. But that doesnt mean he is a good leader.
If Bush was playing guitar with his country star buddies 3 days after 9/11 or doing "fly-overs" and fake photo ops for the press do you think he would of been re-elected?
Nope.
And Katrina is just as devestating. The state and local government of Lousiana failed and failed miserably. But that's no excuse for the sleeping King.

"And Katrina is just as dev... (Below threshold)
Toby928:

"And Katrina is just as devestating. The state and local government of Lousiana failed and failed miserably. But that's no excuse for the sleeping King."

I must be one of the few swimming against the current meme that this disaster response was unconscienable. Could it have been better? Maybe. Do people make mistakes? Always. It just seems to me that this has been the best response to a natural disaster that I can remember. Let the party without sin cast the first stone. I invite comparisons to previous disasters of this magnitude.

Tob

Well comparisons to previou... (Below threshold)

Well comparisons to previous disasters will fall short. Why? Because after 9/11 we are supposed to be ready for disasters and terrorist attacks. We are supposed to be on a war footing and war readiness. This disaster highlighted how UNREADY we are. I am sure terrorists have noted our total lack of ability to respond. (After claiming God is punishing us.)

I for one have been upset w... (Below threshold)
BigDuke:

I for one have been upset with King George for awhile now. Ironicly I see the federal hurricane response as more of the same, and basically exactly what you would expect to see given the management style of this administration. The funny thing is that almost every one of my friends who has supported Bush all along doesn't seem to see it that way. They think that the government has really let people down, and that it is this guys fault. These guys played a little too much politics on this one and ran a little fast and loose on the governing part, and the average Joe on the street has taken notice.

"These guys played a little... (Below threshold)
Toby928:

"These guys played a little too much politics on this one and ran a little fast and loose on the governing part, and the average Joe on the street has taken notice."

Perceptions change as facts emerge and passions cool. I agree that the current response shows that an intentional disaster, dirty bomb or bio attack, would find us just as unready. Will we be ready? Could we be? I don't think that ready is the word we should use. It's my hope that our response to disaster will continue to improve and that our country will continue to be as prosperous as it is, allowing the kind of restoration effort that we now enjoy. (imagine this disaster occurring during the Great Depression).

Tob

From what I have seen from ... (Below threshold)
SOH:

From what I have seen from Mayor Nagin is that he was the first person to take responsibility on what was or wasn't done. He came out in a interview, the same one where he is critical of Gov. Blanco and her "I need 24 hours to make a decision" comment.

Look, if you can not see that Gov. Blanco is a fucking train wreck under pressure than there is something wrong with you. Part of Mayor Nagin freaking out on the phone is that he didn't know what the hell was going on. It seems like Blanco asks for the Federal Gov't and than washes her hands with the whole thing. What kind of leader is that.

Mayor Nagin may have made mistakes, but you saw he still fighting to save people and the city NO. That's a leader.

For the people who say the ... (Below threshold)
NC:

For the people who say the people in NOLA area couldn't just walk out:

http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050913/NEWS0110/509130369

They've relied on gov't all their lives. Thats why they didn't leave. Mandatory evacuation people. Able bodied people should've gotten the hell out. Period.

So what I'm getting here (a... (Below threshold)

So what I'm getting here (and I'm WAITING for the first moon-bat to say this) is that because President Bush isn't FRIGGIN PSYCHIC, it's his fault? If he would have sent federal troops in WITHOUT a SPECIFIC request for them, that would have been ILLEGAL, as far as I understand it, so once "Governor" Blank-O SPECIFICALLY REQUESTED them, he sent them.

People are going on about F... (Below threshold)
meep:

People are going on about FEMA, and how they were supposed to respond. Huh? My experience with FEMA is that they hand out the checks -- that's about it.

Having grown up on the SE coast of America, my family has gone through several hurricanes, one of which landed a tree on our roof, one of which turned power off for over a week, and one of which destroyed the trailer park my aunt and cousins lived in. FEMA never had anything to do with search & rescue, etc. I remember when St. Louis and other midwestern towns got flooded in the 90s. Again, I don't remember FEMA having anything to do with evacuating people or such stuff. FEMA is the =last=-responder by design, not the first-responder.

FEMA was a manager to coordinate long-term recovery efforts, disburse federal funds to disaster victims -- that sort of thing. When did their mandate change?

Gov. Blanco should have kno... (Below threshold)

Gov. Blanco should have known that she needed to give the President specific permission to send in federal troops. If the President had made that decision unilaterally, it would not only be in clear violation of the law, but also an act of political suicide. Can you imagine the hue & cry if Bush had superceded the Governor's authority and taken command? The democrats would then have *at least legally* a legitimate argument for assailing the President's disregard for Constitutional Law. It would be grounds for impeachment - it wouldn't matter a whit to Pelosi, Biden, et al. that he was doing it for humanitarian reasons: he'd be drawn & quartered.

Whether or not people think this is right in a time of disaster is irrelevant. The Constitution clearly precludes the President from taking such a step unless specifically requested to do so by the Governor. Case closed.

Please, Paul, not “loo... (Below threshold)

Please, Paul, not “looters”. They're constituents.

[i]"For all of you who keep... (Below threshold)
RightWingLiberal:

[i]"For all of you who keep blaming Bush and trying to protect Blanco, I'm afraid I have some bad news for you. Blanco got caught on tape by CNN admitting she did not ask for Federal Troops."[/i]

This is like saying that you are holding a fire hose but waiting for a person inside a burning building to yell for help before turning on the water.

2nd of all. I don't know ANYONE who is trying to protect Blanco. Just because someone hold's the leader of our country to some sort of accountability standard, or a certain level of responsibilty for his administration doesn't mean we are die hard Democrats.

3rd. This is not a blame game, dodge ball or a tennis match.

hey "Bigdick", do you talk ... (Below threshold)
jab:

hey "Bigdick", do you talk to your imaginary friends very often. well i talked to my imaginary friends a while ago, and they said W did all he possibly could.

The Constitution clearl... (Below threshold)
RightWingLiberal:

The Constitution clearly precludes the President from taking such a step unless specifically requested to do so by the Governor. Case closed.

Exactly.
The last thing this country needed is another politician. It needed a LEADER.

Immediately after 9/11 we had Mayor Rudolf comforting and commanding the people on the ground, I gained alot of respect for that man on that day. And shortly after we had Bush standing on a pile of rubble rallying the troops and re-assuring the people.
This time we had Bush waiting for the DVD to come out.

Sad. Case closed.

"Sad. Case closed."<p... (Below threshold)
Toby928:

"Sad. Case closed."

Well, that settles it. ;-)

Tob

Hey "jab",Your sveng... (Below threshold)
BigDuke:

Hey "jab",
Your svengali like knowledge of my anatomy aside, I have no doubt you have imaginary friends, I have no doubt that "W" did all he could. That was kind of my point, that he has broken the machine so badly that even though we were suppossed to be all prepared after 9/11, that in fact things where FUBARed. My friends, both real and imaginary feel the same way. There are plenty of people who screwed the dog on this one, and your boy is at the top of the list. I have not once praised Blanco or Nagin. This is Neo-con small government in action, if you are okay with it then fine, but my albeit emperical evidence seems to show that most moderate people are not. Don't worry hon, none of this will get in the way of the Bushies drinking mai tais at the Hamptons this year.

It's so funny to see that t... (Below threshold)
Shaun:

It's so funny to see that those who usually refer to President Bush as a fascist dictator are incensed that he didn't act like one and overtake the state without permission.

"This is Neo-con small gove... (Below threshold)
Toby928:

"This is Neo-con small government in action, if you are okay with it then fine, but my albeit emperical evidence seems to show that most moderate people are not."

As I stated, I'm not satisfied with it (not being satisfied with anything short of perfection) but its not horrid and after getting over being overwhelmed by the distruction, I think its better than I would have expected. As I said, I think its better than any previous response to a disaster of this magnitude and thats something.

Tob

I think you meant anecdotal not empirical, unless you've take surveys. ;-)

We, in Texas, will make a f... (Below threshold)
Kathy:

We, in Texas, will make a full court press to register all of the displaced Katrina victims we are sheltering here and look forward to watching Texas turn blue in the next election. That is exactly what old Babs Bush is afraid of. Be afraid, be VERY afraid.

Shaun:Ya know, tha... (Below threshold)
Peter F.:

Shaun:

Ya know, that's a pretty damn good observation!

What Nelson Muntz would say to Gov. Blanco: "A-ha!"

There's a real easy way we ... (Below threshold)
jim:

There's a real easy way we can solve this entire question:

Support an independent counsel investigation, with a bipartisan review panel that has subpoena powers, to look at every single aspect of the Katrina response. From the Mayor all the way up to the President. Including a full timeline.

I'm a Democrat and a Liberal, and I support this. I want to know exactly how much of this blame falls on Nagin, on Blanco, on Brown and FEMA, on Chertoff and Homeland Security, and on Bush. Should it turn out, after such a thorough investigation, that Nagin and Blanco own more of the blame, so be it.

If you are all interested in getting to the truth of this matter, assessing accountability, and fixing problems, I think you will support this or a similar idea.

"We, in Texas, will make a ... (Below threshold)
Toby928:

"We, in Texas, will make a full court press to register all of the displaced Katrina victims we are sheltering here and look forward to watching Texas turn blue in the next election."

WTF? Your from Texas and you don't know the relative populations? You could take in all of LA and still be a red state. One with more electoral votes.

Maybe that is a good idea. ;-)

Tob

"I think you meant anecdota... (Below threshold)
BigDuke:

"I think you meant anecdotal not empirical, unless you've take surveys. ;-)"

The sad part is that I looked it up and everything. "Anecdotal", "Anecdotal", "Anecdotal". Spell it 3 times and you will remember it! :)

The Constitution clearl... (Below threshold)
jim:

The Constitution clearly precludes the President from taking such a step unless specifically requested to do so by the Governor. Case closed.

I will say, I find it difficult to square this sort of excuse, with the supposed conservative ideology of accountability.

If the President had spent those days on the phone, doing everything possible to talk reason into Blanco, signing the paperwork necessary to send in the New Mexico Nat'l Guard offered by Richardson, etc. etc.; and Blanco blocked Bush from helping every step of the way, THEN you might have an argument.

But Bush played guitar and ate cake while people were dying - precisely as if he felt it really wasn't his problem.

And besides the callousness this sort of behavior indicates, which is bad enough - it really did **legally** become his responsibility to do the best that he could to help, the moment Blanco requested Bush to declare a disaster area - which was done on 8/27.

"Support an independent cou... (Below threshold)
Toby928:

"Support an independent counsel investigation, with a bipartisan review panel that has subpoena powers, to look at every single aspect of the Katrina response. From the Mayor all the way up to the President. Including a full timeline."

Jim, we get it already. You don't like Bush. ;-)

But seriously, an independent counsel? Has some crime been committed? I thought that one of the best points raised in this post was Oh Dear's link to the documents. That seem to establish that all the i's were dotted and t's crossed. An after-action or lessons learned report may make more sense or perhaps that's what you meant.

Tob

Let me try again,T... (Below threshold)
B Moe:

Let me try again,

The "Hurricane Pam" scenario predicted:

61,290 dead. Latest projection is well under 1000
384,257 injured. Far less in actuality.
250,000 children missing school. Far less in actuality.

New Orleans uninhabitable for well over a year. Actually they are planning on having Mardis Gras next year (that is about 6 months)

All of the predicted devastation to the oil supply lines has been much, much shorter term than predicted.

So far the only real complaint is that some folks went a couple days without food and water, and had to wait a couple days on a bus. This is intolerable? Are you all fucking nuts?

I'll say it again:
Predicted dead- 61,290 Actual- less than a 1,000


[email protected] tubino... (Below threshold)
ed:

Hmmm.

@ tubino

"Did Blanco have sufficient LA Natl Guard, that should contact and get there quickly? No."

She had 8,000 LA National Guard available out of 12,000 LA National Guard total. Yet Blanco only mobilized 1,800 LA National Guard by Monday and another 1,200 LA National Guard by late Tuesday.

Even now only 4,000 of the 12,000, it's back to 12,000 because the 256th Brigade has returned from Iraq, available LA National Guard have been mobilized.

"tubino" your point would be a lot more impressive if it included, you know, facts.

"Predicted dead- 61,290 Act... (Below threshold)
Toby928:

"Predicted dead- 61,290 Actual- less than a 1,000"

From you lips to G_d's ear.

Less that 1000 recovered so far. The destruction in Mississippi has to be seen to be believed. It could still go a lost higher although I grow more optimistic with each passing day.

Tob

Jim, we get it already. ... (Below threshold)
jim:

Jim, we get it already. You don't like Bush. ;-)

Heh. OK, you found me out. :)

Nevertheless, I'm up for a full look here, and let the chips fall where they may. However much responsibility Nagin and Blanco are eventually found to bear, so be it...

But seriously, an independent counsel? Has some crime been committed? I thought that one of the best points raised in this post was Oh Dear's link to the documents. That seem to establish that all the i's were dotted and t's crossed. An after-action or lessons learned report may make more sense or perhaps that's what you meant.

I'm thinking a commission very similar to the 9/11 commission, with the additional helpfulness of an independent lead investigator. I'm very willing to just settle for a 9/11-style commission. It could even have all the exact same people on it. I thought they did quite a good job.

I think such a commission is needed, because when politicians of ANY stripe or rank are at risk, getting at the truth can easily require subpoena power. And I that an after-action report, without that level of power, will just be pushed away from any potentially damaging info that the politicians can avoid.

After all, look at all the tooth-pulling it took, just for the 9/11 commission to get it's info...

Hmmm.Frankly what ... (Below threshold)
ed:

Hmmm.

Frankly what I'd like to discuss is how Mayor Ray "Naggin" Nagin is going to pay for his police officers going on vacation to Las Vegas when the City of New Orleans is broke.

And how is it that the City of New Orleans is broke? Since it doesn't seem they spent any money on police overtime, or mandatory evacuations or frankly anything else. Where did the money go?

Hmmmm<a href="http... (Below threshold)
ed:

Hmmmm

Washington Times

"Mayor says New Orleans now bankrupt

Sep. 13, 2005 at 9:02AM

New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin says the hurricane-devastated city is bankrupt and is scrambling for loans to pay its employees through the end of the year.
"Technically today we're out of cash," Nagin told reporters in Baton Rouge. "The city is bankrupt ... We have no money."
He said the city spent its last available cash last week on city employee payroll and was seeking bank loans, federal assistance and other means of financing to continue paying its bills and staff, the New Orleans Times Picayune reported Tuesday.
However, Nagin was emphatic state and federal officials would not railroad through city reconstruction until it had passed city muster.
"I don't want anybody outside of New Orleans planning nothing as it relates to how we're going to rebuild this city without us signing off on it," Nagin said. "

If the City was broke from making payroll last week, then the City of New Orleans has been skirting bankruptcy for months. The City certainly didn't spend any money when it came to doing what it needed to do in support of Katrina.

So was this the reason why "Naggin" Nagin didn't want to do the mandatory evacuation? Which seems really odd since the entire purpose of making the area a federal disaster area is to provide additional funding for evacuations.

There's a lot that doesn't seem right going on here.

"I'm thinking a commission ... (Below threshold)
Toby928:

"I'm thinking a commission very similar to the 9/11 commission, with the additional helpfulness of an independent lead investigator. I'm very willing to just settle for a 9/11-style commission. It could even have all the exact same people on it. I thought they did quite a good job."

I hope we don't get a replay of the 9/11 commission although I'm not opposed to an investigation per se. The devil's in the details as they say and more grandstanding by big-government types is more than I can bear. :)

Truthfully, I so expect any and all governments to screw up anything that they put their hands to that I'm grateful when any response to disaster works at all. I don't know why so many people expect government officals to be perfect when they are just the same people that one sees on the street and, in my case atleast, in the mirror. They aren't granted godlike powers upon their election or elevation.

Tob

RightWingLiberal:</p... (Below threshold)

RightWingLiberal:

Granted, Bush didn't equal Giuliani in his command of the situation on 9/11. Bush didn't equal himself on 9/11. But there is a critical difference "on the ground" when you compare Bush's ability to act in the case of 9/11 with that of New Orleans. In NYC, confident and capable people were in charge, and they (Giuliani & Pataki) put aside political issues in the name of getting the job done. In Louisiana, you had bickering and incompetent fools at the helm. It's a whole lot easier to take charge when the parties on the ground are ready to act. Blanco and Nagin were too busy looking to blame others for things that were in part their own fault and in part the fault of others. Crying and pleading don't get the job done. Thoughtful, confident assessment followed by clear and precise orders does.

And if you have a problem with the fact that the President didn't do what he ought to have done, constitutional hindrances be damned, please go ask a lawyer or paralegal friend about The Law. There are more cases of The Law preventing right-action than many of us realize. Tort law is full of them, and these contradictions screw things up more often than they help make things right. It's nuts, but until legal remedies are enacted and those remedies pass constitutional scrutiny, there isn't a damn thing we can do about it. That is true no matter who the President is: Had Kerry been the president, he would likely have found himself in the "Can't Win for Trying" dilemna in which Bush is caught. That's inarguable, IMHO.

[email protected] jim<... (Below threshold)
ed:

Hmmmm.

@ jim

"I'm thinking a commission very similar to the 9/11 commission, with the additional helpfulness of an independent lead investigator. I'm very willing to just settle for a 9/11-style commission. It could even have all the exact same people on it. I thought they did quite a good job."

Frankly I don't think the 9/11 Commission did all that good a job at all. First off they played the bi-partisan game by eliminating anything that might embarass either side. Gorelick's self-imposed excessive "wall" has been fingered as the primary problem, yet you really don't get that sense from the 9/11 Commission report.

Then there's that whole "Able Danger" stuff that's coming out.

I'm in favor of a Commission, with subpoena powers, but absolutely NO politicians from any party should be on it. The best idea I've heard so far is a Commission composed of retired military officers charged with determing all the facts, apportioning blame and publishing everything.

Regardless of who gets hammered, I want a Commission that doesn't hold back and won't whitewash anyone.

It's just getting to that end point that frankly seems impossible.

To the liberals: Say the d... (Below threshold)
Wildwillie:

To the liberals: Say the day after Katrina hit, GW Bush sent in Federal Troops all over NO. The left would say Bush is a jackbooted thug, trampling on our soverign states rights. Now, you know you would. This is all the typical liberal left playing both sides. It is the left that is transparent.

What does one do when one d... (Below threshold)
jim:

What does one do when one discovers another is posting with the same name?

Now don't get me wrong, jim of neophiliac-dot-com is certainly entitled to post as he has and I am in no way criticizing him for it, name and all ("jim" is certainly a fine name, we both apparently agree on this! ;-) ).

This jim here - moi - is not the other one and I do not share his views. Still, if one could really get a true and honest investigation, I would not oppose it. Would both sides accept Colin Powell?

Only Wacoheads and Ruby Rid... (Below threshold)
Clovis:

Only Wacoheads and Ruby Ridgers cry about jackbooted thugs; this liberal applauded both of those actions. Yesterday, for the first time EVER, Bush accepted responsibility for something that went wrong on his watch. Do you think he would have done that if he really thought he didn't commit the FUBAR that exposes him and his policies for what they really are and was in desparate CYA mode? Those of you who are still blaming state and local officials are questioning Bush's judgment to take responsibility, and I must ask: why do you hate America?

Colin Powell, hmmmm I migh... (Below threshold)
Toby928:

Colin Powell, hmmmm I might could go along with that. He might not accept the position as he is skilled bureacratic fighter and would see that this is a no-win position.

As Ed points out, a large component of military men would seem to be important since a) much of the response is from active/reserve military and B) nobody but the military has any conception of what it takes to move vast quantities of men and supplys over disturbed terriotry.

Tob

Blanco defenders,1... (Below threshold)
robert:

Blanco defenders,

1) By all accounts, including hers, Blanco caused two 24-hour critical delays, waiting to make a decision.

2) Blanco stopped the Red Cross from going in to the Superdome and the Convention Center. This is undisputed.

3) Blanco held back her own National Guard from NO, by her own account, fearing that thousands of LANG "would not be enough."

Given the above, and the video, it is going to be very hard to establish Blanco as a fast thinking, action Governor who was held back by FEMA and the Feds. This is a leap only for the brain-dead.

Bush, at least, has accepted responsibility for problems on his side and worked to fix them. I may be the only one, but I think replacing Brown was more than just a political act.

"I must ask: why do you hat... (Below threshold)
Toby928:

"I must ask: why do you hate America?"

LOL

hey, Paul's posted a follow up post to this one that raises an interesting point on this subject:

http://wizbangblog.com/archives/007084.php

I'm so there!

Tob

Are you sure they weren't g... (Below threshold)
Lars Gruber:

Are you sure they weren't going to put the "Finders" in jail, not "Looters".

If it's all Blanco's (a carnard from the Right), why did bush boy claim responsibility? And where are the troops anyway? Oh, that's right.... Iraq.

Bok Bok Chicken Hawk

"Bok Bok Chicken Hawk"... (Below threshold)
Toby928:

"Bok Bok Chicken Hawk"

I bow before your wit and wisdom.

Tob

"Bawk Bawk Chicken Hawk" sound better Lars.

also: your confusion betwee... (Below threshold)
Lars Gruber:

also: your confusion between FEMA & military... is that intentional, or are you just playing dumb?

Who cares what SHE did, is ... (Below threshold)
go1:

Who cares what SHE did, is she the leader of our country in time of national emergency? Is some mayor supposed to be in charge of our NATIONAL well-being?

When a huge emergency happens like Hurricane Katrina, the feds are in charge, because the NATION is at risk, not just some state, city, or county. Those evacuees have spread through-out the entire US, we are ALL paying for it. The effect of an entire major city, and the coastal areas of 3 states that have been shut down hits the entire country.

I don't want my security in Texas to be determined by what some mayor or governor does in Louisiana in times of national emergencies. I want the feds to handle their part of it and mitigate what effect it is going to have.

So, if this is some Louisiana post, about Louisiana politics, then you got a point. But if you are trying to tell me that this national emergency is the fault of some local yokel in Louisiana, get real.

Frankly I don't think th... (Below threshold)
jim:

Frankly I don't think the 9/11 Commission did all that good a job at all. First off they played the bi-partisan game by eliminating anything that might embarass either side.

Well, that's a reality we can't really avoid right now. To be more precise, I feel the 9/11 commission did a fine job, within the limitations of a highly divided partisan atmosphere. Important flaws were revealed, that if and when properly addressed, will help make our country safer.

Gorelick's self-imposed excessive "wall" has been fingered as the primary problem, yet you really don't get that sense from the 9/11 Commission report. Then there's that whole "Able Danger" stuff that's coming out.

And it has also come out that the US Gov't was in fact warned that Al Qaeda wanted to crash planes into US landmarks, contrary to Rice's statement that "no one could have predicted it". I expect all conservatives to immediately demand her resignation for lying...not. :)

Nevertheless, the 9/11 commission shed a lot more light on a lot of things, than would have happened otherwise.

I'm in favor of a Commission, with subpoena powers, but absolutely NO politicians from any party should be on it. The best idea I've heard so far is a Commission composed of retired military officers charged with determing all the facts, apportioning blame and publishing everything.

It also would be useful if staffed by personnel who are experienced specifically in disaster management. So military officers with experience in this area would be useful, as would civilians with similar experience...

Regardless of who gets hammered, I want a Commission that doesn't hold back and won't whitewash anyone.

Definitely agreed there.

It's just getting to that end point that frankly seems impossible.

That may be so. Still, the further it gets from the date of the incident, the more all concerned can cover their tracks - and there definitely should be some sort of investigation into a tragedy of this scale, regardless of how difficult the political process can make it.

Bush, at least, has acce... (Below threshold)
jim:

Bush, at least, has accepted responsibility for problems on his side and worked to fix them.

For what it's worth. We'll see if this statement of responsibility, has any actual accountability or actions that follow...

Fun with putting the shoe o... (Below threshold)
jim:

Fun with putting the shoe on the other foot. :)

****

Bush defenders,

1) Bush appointed an inexperienced, unqualified political hack to head FEMA, and didn't pull him when his staggering incompetence was revealed - it was only once people screamed, the US was humiliated in front of the world, and his polls took a hit that anything happened to Brown.

2) Bush ate cake and played guitar, rather than straighten out the situation, and do many, many other things he could have done, until days and deaths later. This is undisputed.

3) New Mexico's National Guard were held back, because no one could be bothered to hurry the paperwork.

Given the above, and the video, it is going to be very hard to establish Bush as a fast thinking, action President who was held back by Blanco and the locals. This is a leap only for the brain-dead.

Seems to me like nitpicking... (Below threshold)
tgibbs:

Seems to me like nitpicking in an effort to find fault with the governor. Was her judgment bad in either not asking for the troops (or being more specific in her request, if you're feeling generous)? Yeah, probably, but so what?

Was that really the biggest problem? Look at this: New Orleans has been a sitting duck for a Cat 3+ storm for decades. Everybody has known for years that the city was a disaster waiting to happen. Louisiana may not be the richest state, but New Orleans is a major tourist attraction that brings in a lot of money. Why wasn't more of that going to build up the levees? Whether or not the federal government was remiss in not providing greater federal support for building up the levees, Louisiana should have been doing everything they could at their end. So this governor is at fault, and the one before her, and the one before that....

Does this excuse federal failings?--obviously not. The governor had no experience with this sort of thing, so is it really surprising if she made some poor decisions in the face of a massive disaster? That's one reason why we need an effective FEMA--because local governments cannot be relied upon to have the experience, knowledge, resources, and resolve to deal effectively with this sort of once-in-a-lifetime disaster.

The governor's handling of the crisis is likely to be a major issue for Louisiana residents. The rest of us, who don't depend upon the judgment of the Louisiana governor, but who do have to rely upon the same FEMA and Homeland Safety, are understandably more concerned with why things weren't handled better at the federal level.

Don't forget that BushCo ra... (Below threshold)
Aaron:

Don't forget that BushCo ran a national campaign that basically said "don't vote for the dems - they won't keep you safe. with us you are safe and secure."

After all of those campaign scare tactics about keeping everyone safe from harm, it is unbelievable that in the post-9/11 world Bush names a buddy of his with no previous experience managing emergencies to be head of FEMA. What if this had been a terrorirst attack? What if a truck bomber - a la Tim McVeigh - had blown up the levees in New Orleans? The flooding in NO would have been the same, except no one would have had several days warning beforehand. Clearly, the handling of this disaster by the feds shows that BushCo was not up to the task, and that they put political patronage above national security (once again). That the Right is now campaigning to blame local officials is beyond pathetic.

This is not to say that Gov Blanco, Mayor Nagin, or other local officials didn't drop the ball too. But they didn't run a BS campaign based on national security. The local voters will decide their fate, and it is only up to the locals to do that. I don't live in Lousiana, so I could give a rat's petootey what the Gov did or didn't do right. All I know is that the Bushies obviously failed in what was supposed to be their strong suit: handling national crises. The next disaster - be it at the hands of terrorists of mother nature - most likely will be somewhere other than Louisiana. It could be in my backyard or yours, and it is obvious that the Bush admin is not prepared, and does not have the right people or resources in place to respond adequately.

Now we see that the image of Bush cultivated after 9/11 as a strong national leader in times of crisis is what most of us knew it was: a big lie. Coupled with Iraq, that makes two colossal national failures that have done enormous damage to the US.

The Katrina disaster exposes more than just an inept federal response to crisis. It shows what happens when funding for our national infrastructure is gutted, or when an underclass is perpetuated by Republican economic programs. It shows what happens when neocon wars of aggression and tax cuts for the rich are favored over investing in our future.

This just in on Fox News!:<... (Below threshold)
Aaron:

This just in on Fox News!:

Gov Blanco was seen on tape to be hindering the dispatch of Lousiana National Guard to Iraq during the battle of Fallujah. Were it not for Gov Blanco, Bush would be winning the war on terror.

It's these unpatriotic local officals that keep getting in the way of our glorious victory in Iraq.

Gee, what is *Bush* supposed to do about these wars? It's not like it's *his* fault. Shit happens! You lefties always want to play the blame game, and always want the feds to come in and bail us out of ill-planned wars against nations that had nothing to do with 9/11. Quit looking at the goverment as the solution to everything!

"Bush ate cake and played g... (Below threshold)
Toby928:

"Bush ate cake and played guitar, rather than straighten out the situation, and do many, many other things he could have done, until days and deaths later. This is undisputed."

Actually, I disputed it.

Tob

Aaron,Whatever.</p... (Below threshold)
Toby928:

Aaron,

Whatever.

Tob

Busy day. I just l... (Below threshold)
tubino:

Busy day.

I just learned that it's a big deal that Chertoff didn't understand his job, and delayed matters unnecessarily. Read it here:
http://tinyurl.com/93qze
For the impaired, this is a much bigger deal than any of your assertions about Blanco. Deal with it.

I also learned that Dick Cheney had electricity repairs redirected from a rural hospital to an oil pipeline. You can't make this stuff up. Read it here:
http://tinyurl.com/9exey

No word yet if the delay in electricity caused any deaths.

The things you don't learn in the MSM, eh?

tubino, yet again you're la... (Below threshold)
Toby928:

tubino, yet again you're late to the party. The Cheney pipeline story is also common knowledge.

Why do you think your gasoline isn't $6 a gallon now?

Tob

But I will say this, aaron ... (Below threshold)
Toby928:

But I will say this, aaron could learn a lot from you. At least you post links with your diatribes, even if they're old news.

Tob

robert claims, "2) Blanco s... (Below threshold)
tubino:

robert claims, "2) Blanco stopped the Red Cross from going in to the Superdome and the Convention Center. This is undisputed."

No. It is debunked. The Red Cross now says it agreed to stay out.
http://tinyurl.com/aatmv

Anyway, new news is that Bush called Barbour three times, ignored Blanco.

If Blanco was really screwing up, FEMA and Bush should have been on the phone screaming. That didn't happen.

Chertoff didn't understand his own plan.
http://tinyurl.com/b4zx5

Ah the things you don't learn in the MSM...

An uplifting story of indiv... (Below threshold)
tubino:

An uplifting story of individual responsibility over government regulation:
http://tinyurl.com/dl9m5

And there’s a moral there too.

toby -"whatever"</... (Below threshold)
Aaron:

toby -

"whatever"

very impressive.

You want links with that post? How about these?:
http://www.ItIsPainfullyFreakingObvious.com
http://www.HowTobyGotDupedByAChimp.com
http://www.MyDogAtTheEmergencyPlans.com

Tob takes out his pain thus... (Below threshold)
tubino:

Tob takes out his pain thusly: "Why do you think your gasoline isn't $6 a gallon now?"

'Cept it seems the pipeline is primarily for JET FUEL. STill, nice try, in a kind of factless logic-free assertive way...

The issue isn't whether pipelines need to work. It's just interesting that at this level of detail, the VP is making personal calls. It raises questions. What other calls did he make? Is this any way to run a disaster plan? And why didn't Bush or Chertoff or Brown seem to be finding anything worth pursuing with a call or two in Louisiana for DAY AFTER DAY???

Can any of you smartalecks ... (Below threshold)
tubino:

Can any of you smartalecks explain why Bush’s declaration of emergency on Aug. 27 named all the wrong parishes, or rather left out the most important ones?
http://tinyurl.com/8lpgw

I honestly don’t understand this, though I’ve been looking for a while. The Hurricane Cindy explanation (the other parishes were already named from previous alert) doesn’t explain it, so don’t bother with that.

No! This can't be! Rep. Joh... (Below threshold)

No! This can't be! Rep. John Conyer's and his all Democrat investigative team have already studied this fully and have determined that Blanco is off the hook. I wrote about it here: House Democrats Release “Non-Partisan” Investigation Results

Tubino says "robert claims,... (Below threshold)
wilky:

Tubino says "robert claims, "2) Blanco stopped the Red Cross from going in to the Superdome and the Convention Center. This is undisputed."

No. It is debunked. The Red Cross now says it agreed to stay out."

FROM YOUR OWN DAMN LINK

Red Cross spokesperson Renita Hosler confirmed that authorities turned down repeated offers by the Red Cross to enter New Orleans with supplies.


Reading comprehension, its whats good for you!

wilky, how do figure "autho... (Below threshold)
tubino:

wilky, how do figure "authorities" = Blanco???

reading comprehension -- give it a chance!

I never understood the deal with this story, anyway. The Red Cross sez it won't go into unsecured areas, and so the real argument starts with the chaos.

The only twist that seems interesting is that the "authorities" (apparently DHS) turned down RC help because they were afraid it would encourage people to stay. Yet people were kept in by gunpoint. Go figure.

Plenty more story left to be told. Did you hear the one about the FEMA officials making rescue nearly impossible?

"wilky, how do figure "auth... (Below threshold)
wilky:

"wilky, how do figure "authorities" "


Google, it to is whats good for you!


The Fox News Channel's Major Garrett made another appearance on the program this evening, following up on his blockbuster story yesterday. Among other things, Garrett got confirmation --on camera-- of the Louisian State department of Homeland Security's blocking of the delivery of relief supplies to the Superdome and the Convention Center.

So many Constitutional lawy... (Below threshold)

So many Constitutional lawyers here! And so little knowledge.

People, the President (Federal government) always ... always... has the right to intervene to ensure Federal services -- courts, customs collection, postal service -- operate. He doesn't need the permission of governors or mayors.

Lincoln nailed this one in 1861.

I have little use for Nagin and Blanco. But you can't ignore the fact that Bush ignored his own power to intervene.

Well Allen If I was A DU ki... (Below threshold)
wilky:

Well Allen If I was A DU kind of guy, my thinking would go something like this.

This all started when Blanco needed 24 hours to think about what she should do. So she gathered all the head honchos and came up with a plan. If we act dazed and confused we can get two senerios, she says. The first, we tell those in the city to go to the superdome and withhold food and water, we'll tell them its because we don't want people coming back into the city. The press will be out raged and do what they do best, blame Bush. But the real winner is if bush oversteps his bounds and rush in (he's a fascist, don't you know) then we can impeach that sorry MF. That should wipe that smirk off the chimps face. He doesn't care about people (not like we do), beacuase if he did he would have rushed right done there and huffed and puffed and blew that storm away, beacuase, as everyone knows, we live in a theocracy.

--------

We should not ignore the fact that this was a storm of nature. One of the strongest ones our nation has encountered. We should feel blessed that the death count is so low, and pray it stays low. I really don't care who gets the blame as long as we are dealing with facts. And I'm pretty sure that trying to compare Lincoln in 1861 to the response of this storm is a stretch.

senerios = scenarios... (Below threshold)
wilky:

senerios = scenarios

I agree that Blanco is toas... (Below threshold)
SOH:

I agree that Blanco is toast, but I have to take offense of using Admiral Stockdale to Katherine Blanco. Admiral Stockdale was a great man and much more than the guy who said "Why am I here?" on TV. The guy is a Medal of Honor winner, Katherine Blanco is a friggin joke.

http://insidethemindsoh.blogspot.com/

Wilky, actually it's not a ... (Below threshold)

Wilky, actually it's not a stretch at all, since judicial precedent governs how we deal with stuff. You might think Civil War = boring history class and Katrina = now, but precedent is precedent.

As I said before: If the Federal courts (or what have you) cannot operate, the Federal government can use force to ensure that they can.

Had I been president, I would have nationalized the Guard and sent in troops at the outset. I doubt Blanco or Nagin would have objected, but if they had: "See you in court...."

[email protected] tubino... (Below threshold)
ed:

Hmmmm.

@ tubino

"wilky, how do figure "authorities" = Blanco???"

Because Blanco, being Govenor of Louisiana, has direct control over the State Police of Lousisana along with the Louisiana National Guard. the State Police had setup roadblocks around New Orleans.

"The only twist that seems interesting is that the "authorities" (apparently DHS)"

You conveniently, or perhaps ignorantly, forgot to add that it was the *state* Department of Homeland Security that was responsible, not the DHS which is the federal Department of Homeland Security.

"Yet people were kept in by gunpoint. Go figure."

Yeah. That's called either a "cluster-f**k" or "sheer stupidity".

"Did you hear the one about the FEMA officials making rescue nearly impossible?"

If that story has the same command over facts that you've shown already, it'll be a complete waste of time.

Logic, what a frigging crime.

Frankly spending my evening educating liberals isn't on my todo list so I'll stop here. One day it'll happen that a educated and informed liberal will stop by to debate and I'll have a heart attack from shock.

And I'm pretty damn sure it won't be tubino.

[email protected] Allen Jenk... (Below threshold)
ed:

Hmmmm.

@ Allen Jenkins

"People, the President (Federal government) always ... always... has the right to intervene to ensure Federal services -- courts, customs collection, postal service -- operate. He doesn't need the permission of governors or mayors.

Lincoln nailed this one in 1861."

I'll be damned. After three weeks of this nonense being discussed on just about every political blog here's someone who doesn't know that the Posse Comitatus Act was passed in 1878 to prevent just that sort of thing.

I am simply astonished.

Well. No not really.

Here's a link. Read. Learn. Comprehend. And don't make a complete fool out of yourself again ok?

"Bush ate cake and playe... (Below threshold)
jim:

"Bush ate cake and played guitar, rather than straighten out the situation, and do many, many other things he could have done, until days and deaths later. This is undisputed."

Actually, I disputed it.

OK. I mean, I can dispute that you disputed it. But I don't have any reasonable grounds to dispute it.

So:
a) we know Bush called Mississippi Governor Barbour 3 times, and we know he didn't call Blanco once in that same time period. So, he didn't do as much as he could.
b) we know Bush ate birthday cake with John McCain, and played guitar, while, if nothing else, he could have been calling Blanco.

So, what grounds do you have for disputing this?

@#$%It is up to ea... (Below threshold)

@#$%

It is up to each state to determine what help is needed in their state. It is up to the Federal Government to deal with interstate emergencies. This clearly was an interstate emergency, but, for example, the flooding in New Orleans only had to do with one state, one city. The Federal Government can deal with how help gets TO the affected states, because that money and/or supplies crosses state boundaries.

However, the state residents and city residents would better be served by their own representatives and city councils. They ARE after all, there for a reason. To represent, protect, and serve their own LOCAL constituents.

Exactly, Ed. Read the secon... (Below threshold)

Exactly, Ed. Read the second, third, and fifth bullet points.

I hate to rub your "states rights" hide the wrong way, but the president should have simply sent in the troops and invited Louisiana to sue him later.

<a href="http://tinyurl.com... (Below threshold)
tubino:

http://tinyurl.com/8gx2c

from "Commission Criticizes Storm Response"

John F. Lehman, a Republican on the [9-11] panel who was a Navy secretary in the Reagan administration, said he feared that the "unconscionable" failures of the rescue effort along the Gulf Coast would embolden terrorist groups to attack again on American soil, making quick adoption of the commission's year-old recommendations all the more important.

Wow, just read Michael Brow... (Below threshold)
tubino:

Wow, just read Michael Brown's account in today's NYT. First, you have to recognize that his account is NOT verified by either the White House or LA officials. But if there's any truth in his claim that it was clear early on that the Louisiana officials weren't up to the job and he (Brownie) was asking for lots of help ...

then it's also clear that Chertoff and the White House had a LOT of warning, and a lot of requests from the director went ignored.

All along I've been saying that if Blanco and the others were nearly as inadequate as the republican noise machine says, then it was up to DHS/FEMA to take steps early, because it was FEMA's job to coordinate the response!!!

[email protected] Allen Jenk... (Below threshold)
ed:

Hmmmm.

@ Allen Jenkins

"I hate to rub your "states rights" hide the wrong way, but the president should have simply sent in the troops and invited Louisiana to sue him later."

Louisiana wouldn't be suing the President. Congress would be conducting **impeachment** hearings. This is what people have been trying to get you to understand.

A sitting President cannot grossly violate the law, as set forth in the US Constitution and by Congress, without getting impeached. Particularly this President with so many gunning for his hide.

Then there's the whole issue of the UCMJ. I certainly hope you'll understand the following point, but if not I'd suggest talking to someone who has military experience. The UCMJ forbids any soldier from following an illegal order. Period. if a soldier follows an illegal order then that soldier, whatever the rank, is subject to indictment, trial and imprisonment for obeying that illegal order depending on the circumstances.

If the Major General in command of the 82nd Airborne Division obeyed a direct, and *illegal*, order by the President to deploy into New Orleans, then that Major General, his staff and every single officer, NCO and soldier under his command would be liable. I can assure you that Major General would NOT obey that illegal order.

Our political, military and social structure is set up in such a way that the President literally could not give that order and have it obeyed.

When I was in the USMC we had to have a class around every 6 months on what is, and what isn't a legal order and what the repercussions were for following an illegal order.

Nobody who got to the rank of Major General in the US Army is going to be ignorant of what is and what isn't a legal order.

Got it?

I am a veteran, but thanks ... (Below threshold)

I am a veteran, but thanks for the little lecture on the UCMJ. Glad to see you take it more seriously than Lynndie England.

Have a look at the link you gave us all. I think you'll agree that the "exceptions" applied. If you don't agree, well then... I don't think I or anyone here can convince you otherwise.

Ed, I notice you don't have a website or a blog. Why is that? You just like to troll comment logs?

[email protected] Allen Jenk... (Below threshold)
ed:

Hmmmm.

@ Allen Jenkins

1. "I am a veteran, but thanks for the little lecture on the UCMJ. Glad to see you take it more seriously than Lynndie England."

*shrug* you never can tell on blogs.

2. "Have a look at the link you gave us all. I think you'll agree that the "exceptions" applied."

In what way? Is looting suitable for a declaration of Insurrection against the wishes of the state's duly elected Govenor? If Blanco were incapacitated or if Blanco had requested federal military intervention, then it wouldn't have been a problem. But Blanco was obviously not incapacitated, incompetent yes but not incapacitated.

Plus I notice you didn't refute my UCMJ point.

3. "Ed, I notice you don't have a website or a blog. Why is that? You just like to troll comment logs?"

A. I don't enjoy dealing with trackback spam.
B. I don't enjoy dealing with comment spam.
C. I don't have the inclination to blog all the time.
D. I have no interest in it.
E. I'm just too busy to do this sort of thing all the time.

As for the "troll" bit, I'll just ignore that.

The whole thinking of this ... (Below threshold)
SOH:

The whole thinking of this issue and the UCMJ is has too much gray area. The General can make the oppsite argument and say people are dying and I need to save them.

The simple fact of this whole issue is that Katherine Blanco is a politician and not a leader. I truly believe she does not understand what is in her power and what isn't. She did not communicate clearly up the Chain of Command (CoC) to the President and just watching the whole affair, nor did she do it down the CoC to the Mayor. If she thought she asked for troops, which I believe she did not, why didn't she follow up the request? She simply stated "give me everything" and than washed her hands of the whole affair and placed the blame on the President. Orders and requests need to be placed in a concise and timely manner to effective. She did neither.

To those who keep claiming ... (Below threshold)
Aaron:

To those who keep claiming Bush didn't act because the Constitution prevents the Feds from interfering in local affairs (unless requested): Give me a freaking break.

There is no way in hell that Bush is even remotely aware of the laws involved. This whole rationale was something cooked up after the fact - just like the ever evolving rationales for the war in Iraq. Face it - Bush didn't respond quickly because he was in vacation mode, and it took him several days to finally realize "what all the hullabaloo was all about". It's just that simple.

To claim Constitutional law prevented him from acting is ludicrous. That would assume that 1) he even knew what the law was (big big stretch, given his studied lack of interest in everything, and given that all of his advisers were on vacation as well) 2) he actually gave a rat's ass what the law says (this is an administration that has demonstrated over and over that they see themselves as studly dudes who have precious little use for the law) 3) He put the law above the fact that hundreds or perhaps thousands of people were dying in the worst disaster to hit the US in 100 years.

But the Bush apologists will grasp at any straws to protect the carefully crafted image of infallibility of the Dear Leader. Kim Jung Il would be jealous of such blind loyalty that requires constant suspension of reality.

If in a disaster in which t... (Below threshold)
tubino:

If in a disaster in which the Stafford Act has been invoked, the state governor is:

/in a fetal position under the desk/
/dead or incapacitated
/gone on vacation
/grossly incompetent

then which of these two ways does DHS/FEMA respond?

1) Well, let's let things deteriorate, and we'll know who to blame later. But schedule some photo-ops, okay?

2) Since the NRP and the President's declaration puts FEMA in charge of coordinating the response, we'll have to do the best we can to work with whoever is competent/alive/responsive.

The problem is that FEMA is admitting it went with #1, when the only responsible reaction was #2.

IOW, Blanco may have failed (though I don't see it), but the coordination was up to DHS/FEMA -- and it failed miserably.

Yep, you can bleat all you ... (Below threshold)
Henk:

Yep, you can bleat all you want, Blanco's toast Nagin's toast, its all a big game, blah blah blab, but the reality is after 911 Dear Leader told us never again. He was going to make sure that we were safe. He put together the Dept. of Homeland Security. Streamlined comunications, no more red tape, tust us we know what were doing. Well folks this was the first big test for DHS and they fail misarably. Right there on National TV for all the world to see. You'all can scream and holler, play your blame game, but many many folks saw Bush for the first time as he really is. It wasn't pretty.

GOP talking point 2 (aka id... (Below threshold)
Aaron:

GOP talking point 2 (aka idiotic rationale number 2)
________

To those who say Bush's slow response was because he was not kept informed by local officials of exactly what was happening, and that what was going on in New Orleans was very murky: Give me a freaking break.

You mean to tell me the President of the US has no idea of what is going on in a major US city, and has no way to find out? This from the same President who pretends to know and understand what is going on in Iraqi cities? This from the same President who pretends to be able to win a war against a shadowy world-wide terror organization?

Now, everyone had ample warning that this was a very dangerous storm that was heading directly towards a very vulnerable city. The President has at his disposal almost instantaneous and very detailed sattelite imagery of every square inch New Orleans, in visible light or infrared. The US military has fleets of helicopters and other naval aircraft at nearby Pensacola Naval Airstation (which was not evacuated), that could easily evaluate the situation in the hours following the storm and levee break.

If Bush just didn't know how devastated New Orleans was for some days after the levees broke, it is not because he didn't have the ability to know, but rather that he didn't care to know.

And if Bush didn't know just how bad New Orleans had become, leaders all over the world apparently did. While other world leaders were offering aid, Bush was in San Diego and Arizona yucking it up with McCain. What a pathetic spectacle: leaders of third world nations offering aid before our own finally snaps out of his vacation haze.

Can you guys give some SPEC... (Below threshold)
Eric:

Can you guys give some SPECIFIC examples of FEMA failures? With cause and effect?

I can give you specific examples of failures by the Mayor and the Governor demonstrating cause and effect.

For example,
Cause: The mayor waited until less than 24 hours before the hurricane to order the evacuation despite the fact that it would take 72 hours to evacuate the city. Effect: An incomplete evacuation.

Cause: the mayor did not order public transportation to evacuate the indigent from the city, instead they were relocated to another part of the city. Effect: people were intentionally stranded in the city for a hurricane.

Cause: The mayor did not supply food, water, shelter and security to the SuperDome as per his evacuation plan. Effect: people were left starving and chaos erupted at the SuperDome.

Cause: The Governor did not activate enough National Guard and not soon enough. Effect: There was insufficient law enforcement to prevent looting and violence.

So give some specific serious examples. Not some lame partisan example. By the way what constitutes a reasonable timely/effective response? What should the Fed have done differently?

@ Ed1. Yes, I know... (Below threshold)

@ Ed

1. Yes, I know. Where were you? I was a CT(0)2 in Navy Intelligence.

2. As President, I wouldn't have worried much about Governer Blanco. Sure, I would have spoken with her, and would have strongly urged her to request troops or Guard nationalization. But if she had not done so, I would have just done it.

3. UCMJ. Your "illegal orders" example is 100% correct; still, it's a red herring. As President, you or I don't call the commander of the 82nd and say "Go down to New Orleans, restore order" anymore than we can call some petty officer in the White House Comms Center and tell him to go fetch some Chinese carry-out.

What would happen is that you or I, as President, would say "let's send the 82nd, even though Governer Blanco hasn't asked for it". The PC law would certainly come up. Maybe we would ask the AG for a ruling -- he's the government's lawyer, after all. If he said "Yeah, I can make a case for this...", I'm sure we would consult our SecDef (who has some good lawyers of his own).

In short, no one is going around giving "illegal" orders. By the time it reached the commander of the 82nd, the order has been washed and rinsed. The commander has one choice: obey or resign.

I think, too, we need to step away from the purely legal and look at the political. I detest Bush, and am perfectly happy that he looks like an ass. But, objectively, I think he had a sterling opportunity to lead in this case -- the people of New Orleans wouldn't be any worse off, and his political standing (and that of Republicans in Louisiana) would be sharply higher.

@ AaronAmen. If yo... (Below threshold)

@ Aaron

Amen. If you want to be president, then BE a president.

From Allen Jenkins: "What w... (Below threshold)
Eric:

From Allen Jenkins: "What would happen is that you or I, as President, would say "let's send the 82nd, even though Governer Blanco hasn't asked for it". The PC law would certainly come up. Maybe we would ask the AG for a ruling -- he's the government's lawyer, after all. If he said "Yeah, I can make a case for this...", I'm sure we would consult our SecDef (who has some good lawyers of his own). "

But, what if he asked the AG and the AG said, "I CAN'T make a case for this without invoking an impeachable offense." What then?

Then the President is on hi... (Below threshold)

Then the President is on his own. And has to hope the SecDef will agree with him, and pass on the orders.

I would presume the AG would resign, speaking publicly about why.

When you use the term "impeachable offense", what precisely do you mean? "Impeach" is another word for "Indict". People are indicted all the time, and get off. And, unlike most people, an impeached (indicted) president knows exactly who his jury is.

Believe me, Bush could have sent whatever troops he wanted and a) the House would not have indicted him and b) the Senate would not have convicted him.

I know that makes a lot of libertarians angry, but that's life in 2005.

And it assumes the Democrat... (Below threshold)
Eric:

And it assumes the Democrats wouldn't (justifiably) raise as much hell as they could that Bush defied the Constitution. You seem awefully cavalier about the President defying the Constitution. Bad habit from Clinton?

What about future generations? What about the precedent that would set?

Again, you are putting the onus of the problem on the President, when Gov. Blanco could have ALSO solved the problem by turning over control of the NG. Instead, she had to wait 24 hrs to think about it. How many people died in THAT 24 hrs?

On who's shoulder does that fact sit on?

@ EricI've not put... (Below threshold)

@ Eric

I've not put the onus on the president; I've pointed out that the president has more powers than a lot of libertarians wish.

How would the president be "defying" the Constitution by sending troops in early? Before you answer that, I'd suggest a close read of the administrations of Jackson, Lincoln, McKinley, both Roosevelts, and every post WW2 president.

I said at the outset that I have little use for Blanco. What's your point?

It is interesting to me tha... (Below threshold)
Aaron:

It is interesting to me that the Right makes so much political hay out of "taking responsibility", and out of "accountability".

Under this faux accountability ethos, teachers are to be held responsible for the sorry state of education. Poor residents are responsible for not getting out. Lousianans are responsible for living in Lousiana in the first place. Those who lack health care are responsible for not working for a employer who buys insurance. Iraqis are responsible for not making democracy work. Etc, etc, etc

But when it comes to a national emergency... well now, that's the not administration's responsibility. Despite campaigning on their bold leadership during times of national emergency, when the national emergency actually came, all they could muster were lame excuses that national emergencies are the responsibility of locals (who just happen to be democrats... just a coincidence, mind you)

Nothing, no matter what, is ever the responsibility of the "No Responsiblity" Administration. The Buck stops over there. The Dear Leader is only responsible for all that is good and great, but not for anything bad. Ever.

The aftermath of the Iraq war, for example, was so clearly and grossly mismanaged, and yet not a *single* admin official has ever been fired over it. On the contrary, they all get promoted and/or received medals!

Now, I have no problem with the principle of holding folks responsible. But there are vastly different responsibility criteria being applied to poor and middle classes, on the one hand, and on corporate and political power elites on the other. Under the Bushies, corporations who dump pollutants into our air and water are *not* to be held responsible for the clean-up (taxpayers foot the bill), and federal emergency management are not responsible for... emergency management.

The night before the D-Day invasion, Eisenhower wrote two communiques. One was in the event the invasion was successful, and the other in case of failure. The one for failure merely said "I take full responsibility". Were Eisenhower a Bush Republican, his failure communique probably would have read "We tried, but shit happens, and we'll have time for the blame game later." Or maybe, "well, it's not my fault - no one could have predicted there were be so many Germans waiting there." Or, "we thought we were winning - the commanders on the ground didn't tell me we were being pushed into the sea. (and I didn't ask them)" Or, "well, if the Canadian and British troops had done their jobs, we would have won." Or, "international law prevented me from entering French territorial waters without France's permission." etc etc etc

Allen Jenkins: "I hate to r... (Below threshold)
Eric:

Allen Jenkins: "I hate to rub your "states rights" hide the wrong way, but the president should have simply sent in the troops and invited Louisiana to sue him later."

"How would the president be "defying" the Constitution by sending troops in early? Before you answer that, I'd suggest a close read of the administrations of Jackson, Lincoln, McKinley, both Roosevelts, and every post WW2 president."

Really? Please tell me how all those Presidents overcame the Posse Commitatus Act.

What's my point? My point is that if the President had run in, nationalized the LANG and sent in the 82nd Airborne over the objections of Governor Blanco it would have violated the Posse Commitatus Act. He then would be guilty of violating Federal Law and thus be guilty of an impeachable offense. The Democrats certainly would see it that way, and so too would a lot of Republicans. I think you assume wrongly that Republicans are like Democrats who are willing to overlook the law in favor of party unity.

"I don't understand the gle... (Below threshold)
Phaedrus:

"I don't understand the gleeful obsession with anything that hurts Bush regardless of the consequences to the American public and I doubt that attitude is going to win you any converts."

Funny how a diphsit right winger can't tell the difference between gleefulness and rage. Go figure.

Eric says: "He then would b... (Below threshold)
Aaron:

Eric says: "He then would be guilty of violating Federal Law and thus be guilty of an impeachable offense. The Democrats certainly would see it that way, and so too would a lot of Republicans."

Oh give me a break. This president has committed so many impeachable offenses already - swiftly moving Federal troops in to help people in an emergency does not even register on the scale. This president fabricated evidence to illegally invade another country that hadn't done anything to us, and he didn't even come close to getting impeached. No where close. He didn't even care that he was violating international law by invading Iraq. And you expect us to believe that he didn't act in this situation to help our own people because he would have been violating laws, and that he was afraid of getting impeached for it?? Please.

No one on either side of the aisle would have begrudged Bush moving rapidly in response to a natural disaster.

Add, Robert,Try "g... (Below threshold)
Phaedrus:

Add, Robert,

Try "going down" in the polls, in the fact that a serious dislike of Bush is about to become fashionable, and in all this inevitably rubbing off on clueless (Tom Delay, "Isn't this kind of fun, boys?) Republicans. Consider right wing "we're all in this just looking out for number 1" ideology sinking slowly in the West. All I'm saying is you can bray all you want to, but Bush has made you all look like elephant excrement even in the eyes of many staunch Republicans.

"This president fabricated ... (Below threshold)
Eric:

"This president fabricated evidence to illegally invade another country that hadn't done anything to us, and he didn't even come close to getting impeached. "

Really? He fabricated the evidence? Out of what? Don't you think that argument is kind of stupid?

What you are saying is that he fabricated evidence of WMDs that he knew didn't exist, knowing full well that when we got there they wouldn't exist and that we would never find them. So if he was willing to fabricate evidence of non-existent WMDs why didn't he just go ahead and fabricate some WMDs for us to "find"?

Liberals make it sou... (Below threshold)
jc:


Liberals make it sound like America is suddenly against Bush only a year after re-electing him. I don't care what the poles say. 46% of all statistics and poles are made up.

You conservatives are flail... (Below threshold)
jay:

You conservatives are flailing about like fish out of water. The more you try to fight the unrefutable federal failure, the deeper hole you dig for your party. I can't wait until 2006 when the people can hold Bush and the GOP responsible for their negligent manslaughter.

Think I'm wrong? You have lost all moderates, and you are losing (thinking) conservatives every day.

Your president is an incompetent liar with a depraved indifference to human life. When you defend his acts, you are complicit in the depravity.

5 hours ago I challenged pe... (Below threshold)
Eric:

5 hours ago I challenged people to come up with some specific examples of the failures by FEMA. No one has bothered to provide a single one.

So Jay the ball is in your court. Provide some concrete specific examples of the irrefutable federal failure.

P.S. If the President has a... (Below threshold)
Eric:

P.S. If the President has a depraved indifference to human life what does it say about the Mayor of New Orleans who doesn't bother trying to evacuate his poor black constituents from a Category 5 hurricane? Instead he tells them to stay in the city and that they are on their own for food and water.

What a great humanitarian he is.

Eric:FEMA and FEMA... (Below threshold)
Jay:

Eric:

FEMA and FEMA leadership failures:

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/84aa35cc-1da8-11da-b40b-00000e2511c8.html

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050829-1.html
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/katrina_disaster_response;_ylt=Ak_rIryMDAzLga9hk7jGKdms0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ-

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/05/national/nationalspecial/05blame.html?ex=1283572800&en=1d14ebfbd942a7d0&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/0910katrina-bush.html

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/images/20050829-5_p082905pm-0260-515h.html

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050830-1.html

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050831-2.html

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05246/565143.stm

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05246/565143.stm

http://www.chicagotribune.com/services/site/premium/access-registered.intercept

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-050902daley,1,2011979.story?coll=chi-news-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true

http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/WWLBLOG.ac3fcea.html

http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=18470

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/31/katrina/main808193.shtml

http://www.nola.com/newslogs/breakingtp/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_Times-Picayune/archives/2005_08_31.html#075561

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2005/09/01/BL2005090100915.html

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4828771

http://americablog.blogspot.com/2005/09/ted-koppel-rips-rips-rips-michael.html

http://www.rense.com/general67/femm.htm

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/9/5/105538/7048

I shouldn’t have to do this work for you. Especially now. Listen, I truly think your loyalty to your party and your fear of being “wrong” is messing with your better judgement. Rove’s Plame leak, Katrina’s failure, the unjustified war, how much does it take? At some point, other values must become paramount. Love for your fellow man, responsible government, war only when justified by heavy necessity…values like that.

The GOP is playing with your values, pelple. Republican does not equal Christian, they are mutually exclusive. The biggest success of the GOP cult is to trick the convenient and useful dumb-christian population that you have to be conservative to be “clean” and “good.” Ask yourself, who is the God of the political right? Bush? Supply-side economics? The reason I ask is because it certainly isn’t the God I worship, and it’s not Jesus, open the bible to find out (I don’t want to do that work for you as well).

Now ask yourself, does the GOP care about me, or my vote? Then ask yourself does the GOP have my interests in mind, or the interests of the rich and corporate? What is the role of government, to provide safety, security and a thriving economy, or to give money to corporations and rich cronies?

Think critically, I beg of you, because you are being manipulated.
………………
Oh, and by the way, the Govener asked the president for federal help on August 28th, the ball was then in the President’s court (to use your term).

http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%20Relief%20Request.pdf

This is the last link I will provide, do this work yourselves. Find your way out of the little box you live in, I beg you.

It is absolutly amazing that I am even having this conversation.

Eric:I'll let the ... (Below threshold)
jay:

Eric:

I'll let the Mayor answer your question.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46269

FEMA and FEMA leadership fa... (Below threshold)
jay:

FEMA and FEMA leadership failures:

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/84aa35cc-1da8-11da-b40b-00000e2511c8.html

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050829-1.html
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/katrina_disaster_response;_ylt=Ak_rIryMDAzLga9hk7jGKdms0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ-

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/05/national/nationalspecial/05blame.html?ex=1283572800&en=1d14ebfbd942a7d0&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/0910katrina-bush.html

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/images/20050829-5_p082905pm-0260-515h.html

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050830-1.html

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050831-2.html

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05246/565143.stm

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05246/565143.stm

http://www.chicagotribune.com/services/site/premium/access-registered.intercept

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-050902daley,1,2011979.story?coll=chi-news-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true

http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/WWLBLOG.ac3fcea.html

http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=18470

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/31/katrina/main808193.shtml

http://www.nola.com/newslogs/breakingtp/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_Times-Picayune/archives/2005_08_31.html#075561

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/blog/2005/09/01/BL2005090100915.html

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4828771

http://americablog.blogspot.com/2005/09/ted-koppel-rips-rips-rips-michael.html

http://www.rense.com/general67/femm.htm

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/9/5/105538/7048

I shouldn’t have to do this work for you. Especially now. Listen, I truly think your loyalty to your party and your fear of being “wrong” is messing with your better judgment. Rove’s Plame leak, Katrina’s failure, the unjustified war, how much does it take? At some point, other values must become paramount. Love for your fellow man, responsible government, war only when justified by heavy necessity…values like that.

FEMA and FEMA leadership fa... (Below threshold) Moderator:Please l... (Below threshold)
jay:

Moderator:

Please let Eric read my post. I believe it is very important for him to read.

Eric,Go to <a href... (Below threshold)
jay:

Eric,

Go to http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/15/1328/63393#222 to read my post, search for "HERE ERIC"

I don't care what the po... (Below threshold)
mantis:

I don't care what the poles say. 46% of all statistics and poles are made up.

I live in Chicago, and I know a great Poles, and none of them are made up.

a great many Poles, rather.... (Below threshold)
mantis:

a great many Poles, rather.

The Wizbang colors make it ... (Below threshold)
jc:

The Wizbang colors make it impossible to get your spelling and grammar right in some freaky psychological way. Am I the only one who feels that way about this blue, black, and white scheme?

Eric - oh lord, I don't wan... (Below threshold)
Aaron:

Eric - oh lord, I don't want to get into the details of the obvious Bush/Powell/Condi lies about the intel leading up to the war. I would just refer you to the Downing Street Memos that have firmly established once and ofr all that the "intel was being fixed around the policy". And also to Bush's demonstrably fallacious report in the State of the Union that Saddam was seeking uranium in Africa - the State Dept had advised the admin *months* before the SOTU address that this was false, and yet BushCo still went with it knowing that it was a lie. Beyond that, I'd merely advise you to get your bloody head out of your arse and open your eyes.

The point is that if Bush hasn't been impeached for all the really consequential life/death lies he's told (as opposed to say, inconsequential lies about an extramarital affair), then it is beyond imaginable that he'd be impeached for responding quickly to an emergency. You're just reaching for straws - it's really quite amusing.

First off Jay thank you for... (Below threshold)
Eric:

First off Jay thank you for responding. You went to a lot of trouble doing all of those links and I commend you for taking the time to do it. I went to every link you provided and read each of them as best I could. Some are very good and frankly, some are worthless in my opinion.

For example,
http://americablog.blogspot.com/2005/09/ted-koppel-rips-rips-rips-michael.html
This is some guy paraphrasing a conversation that doesn't delineate between his edits and actual conversation.

Having read through the links can I fairly summarize the failures as this. Slow response, and FEMA turned away trucks.

Again, what constitutes a slow response? What is the benchmark to measure a slow response to a fast response? What constitutes a fast response to the most devastating hurricane to hit the U.S.?

Remember, FEMA has to deal with the entire crisis, not just New Orleans. The hurricane devastated 90,000 square miles over 5 states. New Orleans is 350 square miles out of 90,000.

FEMA was working the problem before the storm hit. FEMA sent 7 tractor trailers to the SuperDome on the Sunday before the storm. The Bataan was on station to ride out the storm and was doing S&R immediately following the storm as was the Coast Guard. Relief supplies were rolling as the storm passed.

Still it took several days for aid to get there in mass. How would they get there? Here are some aerial pictures of the devastation of the storm.

As you can see many of the bridges are GONE, roads are washed out, there are trees in the road, etc. Many obstacles needed to be crossed for the relief supplies to get anywhere, and that takes time.

Again I repeat, FEMA has to deal with the entire scope of the problem. Look at the devastation to Mississippi. While people were trapped and dying in New Orleans, people were trapped and dying in Mississippi too. FEMA has to deal with them as well.

Yet Mississippi has much fewer fatalities did not experience wide spread looting and violence, is much better organized and is recovering very quickly. Why? Because their State and Local governments didn't fall down on the job.

What about the stories that "FEMA" turned away the aid trucks. Question, are we absolutely positive that it was FEMA that turned away all of those aid trucks? We know now that the State DHS turned away the Red Cross aid trucks. Is it possible that the reporters have repeated a simple mistake of confusing the State DHS with the Federal DHS? And it was the State DHS that turned away all of those aid trucks?

Is that a possibility? Has FEMA confirmed that they were the ones that turned away the aid trucks? The state and Red Cross confirm that they kept the Red Cross out. What about the rest? If FEMA is the ones that turned away the trucks then yes I would call that a failure. If the state turned away the trucks and not FEMA, would you call that a failure on the State's part?

I don't think I am protecting the Fed out of blind loyalty. I keep hearing that the Fed fell down on the job.

But I still haven't seen a failure comparable to the Mayor and Governor not evacuating the city of New Orleans in a timely manner. To call for an evacuation of the city 23 hours before the hurricane when your own plan calls for 72 is a failure.

Or the disgraceful act of telling people to go to the SuperDome and that food and water is their problem. When you have enough buses to transport ALL of them out of the city less than 2 miles from the SuperDome. No drivers is a STUPID STUPID LAME EXCUSE. That is a crimially negligent excuse. One phone call from the governor would get 500 National Guard troopers to drive those buses in a matter of hours.

Those are the kinds of failures I'm talking about.

Aaron your right I forgot a... (Below threshold)
Eric:

Aaron your right I forgot all about the Downing Street Memo. The smoking gun which says that the "Intelligence and data were being fixed around the policy."

The key word to fix which as the American Heritage Dictionary defines it as


11. To influence the outcome or actions of by improper or unlawful means: fix a prizefight; fix a jury.

But wait the Memo is a British Memo so just to be sporting maybe we should use the Oxford English Dictionary just to be sporting, old chap.

Aaron your right I forgot a... (Below threshold)
Eric:

Aaron your right I forgot all about the Downing Street Memo. The smoking gun which says that the "Intelligence and data were being fixed around the policy."

The key word to fix which as the American Heritage Dictionary defines it as

11. To influence the outcome or actions of by improper or unlawful means: fix a prizefight; fix a jury.

But wait the Memo is a British Memo so just to be sporting maybe we should use the Oxford English Dictionary just to be sporting, old chap.

Which says
1. Verb. attach or position securely

Wait that's not the same thing. Let's replace the word fixed with attached.

"Intelligence and data were being attached around the policy."

That doesn't sound quite the same. I wonder. Would a British citizen be using the American slang term for to fix or the proper English term for to fix? I wonder?


Eric Eric Eric - you are a ... (Below threshold)
Aaron:

Eric Eric Eric - you are a walking GOP talking points memo!

Of course I am well aware of the Right's lame attempts to dismiss the memo by quibbling about the meaning of "Fixed" in British vs American English. That BS was peddled straight out from Karl Rove's desk to Robin Niblet, and then passed around ad nauseum on the Sunday talk show circuit by the administration's designated liar-in-chief, Condisleazy Rice.

But it is all a lot of pathetically lame horseshit meant for the truely brainwashed. Here's what the BBC journalist who broke the story had to say about your dearly held confabulation:

"There are number of people asking about fixed and its meaning. This is a real joke. I do not know anyone in the UK who took it to mean anything other than fixed as in fixed a race, fixed an election, fixed the intelligence. If you fix something, you make it the way you want it. The intelligence was fixed and as for the reports that said this was one British official. Pleeeaaassee! This was the head of MI6. How much authority do you want the man to have? He has just been to Washington, he has just talked to George Tenet. He said the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy. That translates in clearer terms as the intelligence was being cooked to match what the administration wanted it to say to justify invading Iraq. Fixed means the same here as it does there."

Eric, don't you get tired of peddling lame GOP talking points? Face it - the Bushies cooked this shit up, and no quibbling over definitions is going to hide the stark truth.

You might want to expand your critical thinking skills a bit... just a wee bit.
http://mediamatters.org/items/200506170003

Aaron dude, I may be peddli... (Below threshold)
Eric:

Aaron dude, I may be peddling Right wing talking points, but so are you peddling Left wing talking points. Aren't you the pot calling the kettle black?

All your article did was conclude that it COULD be either interpretation. Show me where it conclusively says that this was the meaning. The only way that you could do that is if the author of the memo said this is what my meaning was. And I didn't see him quoted anywhere in the article.

Everything is else is based on interpretation. All you showed was that it could be interpreted either way. The word fixed has BOTH meanings and BOTH could be used validly in the sentence.

So how can you be 100% certain that one usage is correct and the other usage is wrong?

Have you ever heard of a concept in law called "beyond a reasonable doubt"?

I know that this will not g... (Below threshold)
Jon:

I know that this will not get posted but at least the person reading it before they dump it into the Cyber space Forbidden Zone will agree...

Landrieu..what a fucking cunt!

I usually am a reasonable open minded kind person
who never talks this way but this cunt just gets to me. I apologize:)

Eric my man! Get your head... (Below threshold)
Aaron:

Eric my man! Get your head out of your ass and think for a minute! Forget what you've read on some wing-nut website and tell me the God's honest truth: do you really truly believe that "fixed" in this case meant anything other than the Bushies were tailoring the intel to fit their preconceived agenda to invade? Come on, be real with me now. Is the idea that Bush just lied his ass off really just so hard for you to even contemplate that you are willing to believe in any alternate explanation, no matter how ridiculously far-fetched? I guess it is true what they say: the more audacious the lie, the more willing everyone is to believe it, since to believe otherwise is just too scary to contemplate.

Let me ask you this way: what more would Bush have to do for you to flip over to not supporting him anymore? Is there *anything*? Somehow I think Rove could convince you of anything, so long as that explanation preserved your view of the Dear Leader. Black is White, Up is Down. (And "fixed" means some other obscure thing in the UK - OK?)

So now you want to talk about reasonable doubt?? Are you kidding? How very un-Republican of you. There is a reasonable doubt that "fixed" didn't mean "manipulated" in the Downing Memos in the same way that there is reasonable doubt that OJ didn't off Nicole, and that there is reasonable doubt that Clinton didn't have sex with that woman.

Aaron, Aaron, Aaron<p... (Below threshold)
Jon:

Aaron, Aaron, Aaron

Sometimes when something should be done, like wiping out Radical Islamofacist regimes and there is no convient way to do it but lie or tweak facts, then I see nothing wrong with tweaking those facts. You know what..sure its about oil..and also about do you want the regime that allows nit pickers like you to be able to reproduce to freely spew your .."I'm a Democrat so I'm going to question and undermine everything freely as is my God given right"..to win? Or do you want the regime, that if they win and you start spewing your vindictive Democratic trash, "just chops off your freaking head for even voicing any independent thoughts not sanctioned by your freindly neighborhodd Mullah?"

Hell, you'd probably convert. That is the option they gave during a few of the Crusades isn't it..convert or die? Maybe what you secretly want to do is make your wife wear a Burka so you can beat her with a stick?


A totally different interesting concept..why don't we all work together to win the war first..then play esoteric bullshit blame games later? Hell maybe if we win, by 2008 we can elect a Democrat so they can apologize for winning the war to really win the hearts and minds of the Middle East.

That we are not fighting a WW2 style war is very worrisome to me. The only way that the Pax Romana
lasted 250 years was because they killed off all their worst enemies and defeated them soooo badly that the survivors said..."Gee, lets not do that again!"

Unless we are not willing to really defeat these people and their allies wherever they are we really should not be fighting this war and by that I mean Mecca should have been destroyed within the first hour that we found out that they were Saudi's after 9/11.

That we haven't reduced Damascus to rubble by now is also beyond me, not to mention siding with India to neutralize Pakistans nuclear capability before the radicals seize it. You bleeding heart Democrats always like to point out that somehow, someway, we have brought this on our selves.

As Winston Churchill once said (and I paraphrase) Democracy is the worst form of government on earth..except for all the rest.

Now Aaron, if deep down you are a Kumbaya type of guy, I respect that...life is inviolate and all that happy crap. Hell! I'll even help my country to kill a few radicals to preserve your right to feel that we are wrong. Hell, maybe you've fought in a war and are sickened by the carnage and oppose it on humanitarian grounds and like
Mr. Rodgers have donned a sweater....again I'll help my country kill a few more islamofacists to preserve that right and feeling of yours.

I don't believe in bringing Democracy to
people who hate us ...and oh by the way..something
that all Democrats conviently forget is that
Gulf War 1 did not end..legally it was a UN brokered (enforced by us and allies) CEASEFIRE.
Theoretically in that case, any violation by Saddams regime such as shooting at planes for 10 years or so is a technical violation which then theoretically allows us to go straight back to a hot one without having to even say..By your leave..to the UN or anybody else for that matter. Bush's real mistake was being nice and going to the House and Senate and requesting votes, debates etc. etc. etc. , a freaking waste of time to me.

Clinton was too busy getting blow jobs and ignoring the fact that they were trying to blow up the Trade centers, destroying embassies
and generally being the childish 6th century warrior culture religion that they haven't grown out of yet, to do anything meaningful.

When your head prophet consulted reguarly
with his..Generals..and compare that to Jesus
and the Disciples, I think I'll take Christianity.
Holy Cow..that makes me a Kumbaya type deep down too!

Anyways, if i'm not mistaken in the Crusade vein its: Christians 7, Muslims 4? Or actually 7 to 3
since how hard is it to beat a bunch of pesky children?

Its the two miute warning Aaron..whose side are you really rooting for? I am always:

During peace...My country Right!
During War...My country Right OR Wrong!

If we lose this one Aaron start teaching your children or grandchildren:

1) Which way is East
2) How to properly wear a suicide belt to
defeat the next group the Mullahs don't like
3) To sit in the Lotus position bobbing up and
down for hours memorizing the Koran, it
might be the only education they'll get
4) In the late great war with the Great Satan
Daddy/Grandpa helped osama to win

Enjoy!

P.S. Don't use wool for the female childrens
Burkas, it scatches to much

Let's be clear here, one w... (Below threshold)
Eugene:

Let's be clear here, one way or the other you are talking about "did she follow the correct bureaucratic procedure".
To this I say, "who the hell cares!!" This was a gigantic powerful hurricane that we had plenty of advance warning for, and the law is clear, the President could send troops and assistance with or without Blanco's approval, whether or not she requested it, and whether or not she filled out form x in compliance with articles y and z of q.
Get real, the next time a natural disaster of this proportion or a terrorist attack hits the US, possibly where you live, what do you care more about; whether the government quickly responds to the immediate needs of the people affected, or whether the proper paperwork has been filed.
Remember your answer, because it may come back to haunt you.

Someone needs to hold Gov. ... (Below threshold)
Tracey:

Someone needs to hold Gov. Blanco head under the floodwater in her state. She was responsible for her state and she is the one to blame ... not Bush not Brown, not FEMA...

Most people saw what I saw, incompetence times three. We watched in horror to the governor's response to the Federal Aid assistance she denied, while her people were dying. I say get drowning not good enough for her or the mayor.
The state of Lousiana would do well without such incompetent individuals as Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagin. May God have mercy on their lying souls.




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