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A moral question

This morning, I discovered this person's web site, which highlights his crusade against... well, humanity. He appears to be calling for nothing less than the obliteration of all forms of civilization, denouncing the harm Man has inflicted on the environment.

Now, without civilization, I think it's safe to say that a good 90% of us or more would be dead very quickly. Personally, my own continuing existence depends on modern medical technology -- I would be lucky to survive a week without modern medicine.

So, in essence, this guy is calling for wholesale genocide through applied Darwinism. He wants to reshape the world to suit his ideals, and if in the process literally billions of people die, that's just fine with him.

My moral question is this: at what point (morally, not legally) would I be justified in taking action to stop him? When would it be acceptable to thwart his plans, which would end up killing me and countless others?

(Disclaimer: I have never heard of this guy before, have no idea who he is or where he is located, and even if I did, I'm probably the least likely to actually do a damned thing. But while reading his manifesto, I could not help but personalize it and realize that the only role for me in his utopia is as mulch.)

(Found courtesy of this fine fellow, who noticed it from this gentleman, who in turn gives full credit to this splendid chap.)


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Comments (30)

Interesting reading in thei... (Below threshold)
Malibu Stacy:

Interesting reading in their forum:

First Hermit: Hello, are you a hermit?
Second Hermit: Yes, that’s right. Are you a hermit?
First Hermit: Yes, I certainly am.
Second Hermit: Well, I never. What are you getting away from?
First Hermit: Oh, you know, the usual - people, chat, gossip, you know.
Second Hermit: Oh, I certainly do - it was the same with me. I mean, there comes a time when you realize there’s no good frittering your life away on idleness and trivial chit-chat. Where’s your cave?
First Hermit: Oh, up the goat track, first on the left.
Second Hermit: Oh, they’re very nice up there, aren’t they?
First Hermit: Yes, they are, I’ve got a beauty.
Second Hermit: A bit drafty though, aren’t they?
First Hermit: No, we’ve had ours insulated.
Second Hermit: Oh, yes?
First Hermit: Yes, I used birds’ nests, moss and oak leaves ‘round the outside.
Second Hermit: Oh, sounds marvelous.
First Hermit: Oh, it’s a treat, it really is, ‘cause otherwise those stone caves can be so grim.
Second Hermit: Yes, they really can be, can’t they? They really can.
First Hermit: Oh, yes.
Third Hermit: Morning, Frank.
Second Hermit: Morning, Norman. Talking of moss, you know Mr. Robinson?
First Hermit: With the green loincloth?
Second Hermit: No, that’s Mr. Seagrove. Mr. Robinson’s the hermit who lodges with Mr. Seagrove.
First Hermit: Oh, I see, yes.
Second Hermit: Yes, well, he’s put me onto wattles.
First Hermit: Really?
Second Hermit:Yes, swears by them. Yes.
Fourth Hermit: Morning, Frank.
Second Hermit: Morning, Lionel. Well, he says that moss tends to fall off the cave walls during cold weather. You know, you might get a really bad spell and half the moss drops off the cave wall, leaving you cold.
First Hermit: Oh, well, Mr. Robinson’s cave’s never been exactly Nirvana, has it?
Second Hermit: Well, quite, that’s what I meant. Anyway, Mr. Rogers, he’s the hermit...
First Hermit: ...on the end?
Second Hermit: ...up at the top, yes. Well, he tried wattles and he came out in a rash.
First Hermit: Really?
Second Hermit: Yes, and there’s me with half a wall wattled. I mean, what’ll I do?
First Hermit: Well, why don’t you try birds’ nests like I’ve done? Or else, dead bracken.
Fifth Hermit: Frank!
Second Hermit: Yes, Hen?
Fifth Hermit: Can I borrow your goat?
Second Hermit: Yes, that’ll be all right. Oh, leave me a pint for breakfast, will you? (To First Hermit) You see, you know, that is the trouble with living halfway up a cliff - you feel so cut off. You know, it takes me two hours every morning to get out onto the moors, collect my berries, chastise myself, and two hours back in the evening.
First Hermit: Still, there’s one thing about being a hermit, at least you meet people.
Second Hermit: Oh, yes, I wouldn’t go back to public relations.

"Rewilding."What a... (Below threshold)

"Rewilding."

What a concept.

It is amazing the number of... (Below threshold)
DL:

It is amazing the number of people who worship nature, but are so willing to defiling nature's God!

Ever Read Rainbow Six?... (Below threshold)
JimK:

Ever Read Rainbow Six?

I'd say early as possible.

Hmmmm...an "anti-civilizati... (Below threshold)

Hmmmm...an "anti-civilization" message board. Interesting.

Also, what does he plan on doing with the US currency he hopes to make on his book sales once we reach this savage mudhut utopia?

"Anti-Civilization" is just... (Below threshold)
Faith+1:

"Anti-Civilization" is just another code word "loser who can't function in society". Their only recourse is to try and destroy what they are incapable of doing themselves.

Similar to socialism whereby people are made equal by making sure everyone is miserable. Similar to "multi-culturalism" is another word for "segragation".

He'd get a lot more press if he started his manifesto with a statement that everything was fine until Bush was elected President in 2000 and that's when all hell broke loose etc etc etc and then he'd have the full backing of the DNC, the Deaniacs and the moonbats supporting the call for the elimination of 5 billion people...

Jay, I clicked on ... (Below threshold)

Jay,

I clicked on none of the nonsense and therefore should be banned, I suppose...

But just in case, I'd say you have the right to "thwart his plans" (nice word-of-the-day!) in true Darwinian fashion. Survivial of the fittest, right?

JimK: I read R... (Below threshold)

JimK: I read Rainbow Six and, sad to say, the computer game had a better, more integrated and focused plot than did the book.

That said, I took great satisfaction in the "You love nature? Fine, we're stripping you naked and see how many of you make it through hundreds of miles of tropical jungle back to civilization" ending.

Or, as a few Vegas friends would put it, "it's a big desert out there."

In case you didn't catch th... (Below threshold)

In case you didn't catch the update: I scanned in the entire pamphlet,
A Primitivism Primer, so that the primary document can be available for anyone interested. The reading list is really fascinating: the Unabomber appears twice, along with Che Guevara ,violent anarchists etc.

ironic how an anti-technolo... (Below threshold)
Mike U:

ironic how an anti-technology crowd using the internet to spread their word.
If they were authentic, they would use smoke signals.

Jay,Aren't you "th... (Below threshold)
Sheik Yur Bouty:

Jay,

Aren't you "thwarting his plans" by continuing to live every day?

Just sayin'...

As usual with these putzes,... (Below threshold)

As usual with these putzes, this guy doesn't seem to understand that the rest of us won't be going quietly into that Good Night. I know in my case that I damn sure won't be going there alone.

The tagline at <a href="htt... (Below threshold)
LCVRWC:

The tagline at doubleplusgood infotainment is, "Freedom of speech makes it much easier to spot the idiots," which is where this guy falls.

All that being said, he can talk all he wants, but as soon as he starts hurting people, then one is morally obligated to stop him. So far it's just words, but when he starts using sticks and stones (which *he* is morally obligated to use, otherwise he's a hypocrite) you're perfectly welcome to use whatever high-powered weaponry is at your disposal.

I admit not taking the time... (Below threshold)
LJD:

I admit not taking the time to read any of his site, but give the guy some credit: He's got a section called the "Lame-ass Liberal Awards". Priceless.

Unfortunately, they already... (Below threshold)
j.pickens:

Unfortunately, they already HAVE made actions which have killed MILLIONS! Some examples: The ban on DDT which allows malaria to spread and kill. The ban on fluorocarbons which made the Space Shuttle foam insulation fall off (they used Freon to make the foam, the substitutes don't work as well). The ban on building floodgates to prevent storm surges from traveling into Lake Ponchartrain in NOLA. There are many, many other examples, these are just a few.

Pseudoenvironmentalism KILLS!

This terp should grow a set... (Below threshold)
X:

This terp should grow a set and blow his own brains out.

eh, nutcases. Seriously, g... (Below threshold)

eh, nutcases. Seriously, going back to nature just isn't in my plans.

at what point (morally, ... (Below threshold)
Phinn:

at what point (morally, not legally) would I be justified in taking action to stop him?

As soon as he presents a real risk of harm. In this guy's case, he's stated his intent and purpose, so he's halfway to being a threat.

To get the rest of the way he would have to take some overt action that stood a snowball's chance in Hell of actually accomplishing anything.

Let's say some guy wanted to blow up the moon (perhaps this idea is born of some deranged, paranoid, left-liberal sense of persecution ... like that's a stretch, right?). Doing so will wreak havoc on earth, causing billions of deaths. He nevertheless declares his intent to do this, and even goes so far as to start assembling the equipment he thinks he'll need.

Unfortunately, his resources are limited to a couple of boxes of matches, a gas can and a disturbingly large number of rubber bands.

Clearly, the risk of harm to the people of earth is very, very low.

I suspect that the threat to civilization posed by this insurrectionary anarchist is just about as imminent as the guy in my moon-exploding example.

(The medications are out there, dude, s'all I'm saying.)

Why dont all those eco-frea... (Below threshold)
spurwing plover:

Why dont all those eco-freaks go and live way way off in the wild i mean let them live like cavemen living in a cave wearing animal skins and weilding clubs and making a human sacrifice when theres no rain or when these a eclipes let them all worship nature as most of these animal rights wackos must do and tell them to blow it out the ears

Anyone can take him out the... (Below threshold)
haldirbork:

Anyone can take him out the first time he breaks the law. Especially if he tries to take the life of another person.

Is it any wonder that his P... (Below threshold)

Is it any wonder that his PO Box is located in a suburb of Hempfield, Pa? He promotes "rewilding" but I bet he couldn't survvive three days with visiting a Starbucks for some of that sissy coffee-like swill they sell.

I've known people who were ... (Below threshold)
Tim in PA:

I've known people who were like this -- it's scary, sometimes you can know them for years and not realize they feel that way.

Most people like the idea of living a simpler life, but most also have no idea what it really entails. These people blather on about the "feminist" nature of their system, but seem to forget that without such benefits of industry such as firearms and birth control, women will end up little better than slaves.

If you really want to horrify these people, start an enthusiastic discussion of space exploration. Nothing freaks them out more than the notion that man might get out into the stars and "despoil" all the resources on all those airless balls of rock. Of course, without escaping to space, every species on Earth is doomed to a very definite extinction down the road.

These peoples' ideology is, as its roots, anti-life.

Ha! You think that ... (Below threshold)

Ha! You think that guy is nuts? Check out this crew.

Does he pass the 'clear and... (Below threshold)

Does he pass the 'clear and present danger' test? Not hardly. He has an unattainable "dream". Therefore let him flail along harmlessly.

The resistance of 6.5 billion people would probably be too much for those asshats to overcome.

They remind me of the misfi... (Below threshold)
Dave Eaton:

They remind me of the misfits in highschool who would put a safety pin through their nose, an wear a blue mohawk, and then complain that they were ostracised.

Seriously, how can anyone get past the irony of a website that promotes the end of civilization?

For some reason, the Salvador Dali painting, "young virgin autosodomized by her own chastity" keeps coming to mind.

The morons want the goodies that civilization provides, while being ascetics and claiming superiority to it. Like 11 year old vegetarians who eat only macaroni and cheese, while telling their friends how lame their parents are.

'an "anti-civilization" mes... (Below threshold)
ICallMasICM:

'an "anti-civilization" message board.'

no one sees the joke in that?

Well at least the people i... (Below threshold)
frank:

Well at least the people in VHEMT are harmless and won't reproduce! Hey if i could get enough men to join, there would be more women for me! Sweet!

Funny thing about these guy... (Below threshold)
mesablue:

Funny thing about these guys is that they'd be the first to die if their "dream" ever comes about.

Besides, they got as much a of chance getting their way as Tom Cruise does to kill you with his mind. Hail Xenu!

Most people like the ide... (Below threshold)

Most people like the idea of living a simpler life, but most also have no idea what it really entails.

Just thinking of trying to get by without hot showers and broadband Internet puts me in danger of catatonia. My idea of roughing it these days has become making my own lunch.

Is it any wonder that his P... (Below threshold)
hothead:

Is it any wonder that his PO Box is located in a suburb of Hempfield, Pa? He promotes "rewilding" but I bet he couldn't survvive three days with visiting a Starbucks for some of that sissy coffee-like swill they sell.
Posted by: bullwinkle at September 27, 2005 09:57 AM

I know that there haven't been any posts since September but I just came across this site and found all of this very interesting. I don't know how I feel about it all but I do want to respond to bullwinkle. I am from PA and Greensburg is not a suburb of Hempfield. Hempfield is a township and PA is not a state but a commenwealth. Greensburg is also a small redneck town between two mountain ranges. And there are no Starbucks around either.
I hear pretty crazy things about the guy you all are talking about. I guess he lives off the land in a pretty strict hunter-gather fashion. I hear he is a big guy that resembles bigfoot in a way.
That is all of the input that I have. I just wanted to clear some things up. Like I said I find this all interesting and would like to read more about what you all have to say.




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