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VFW Bikers Drown Out Phelps Funeral Protest

The despicably ville Fred "God Hates Fags" Phelps finally met his match in a large group of military veterans armed with the collective roar of over 100 motorcycle engines.

CHELSEA - God spoke with the roar of revving motorcycle engines during a protest Tuesday by six members of a Kansas church that believes God is punishing the U.S. for protecting homosexuals by killing soldiers overseas.

Chelsea residents, however, believed God spoke on their behalf as the engines of more than 100 Veterans of Foreign Wars motorcycles drowned out the voices of the Westboro Baptist Church members who were allowed to protest from 1-1:30 p.m. before the 2 p.m. funeral services for Staff Sgt. John Glen Doles.

...Chelsea's main street was lined with American Flags in honor of Doles, who was killed when he and five others were ambushed by enemy fire last week in Afghanistan. He was laid to rest with honors in a small cemetery southeast of Chelsea.

Town and local law enforcement consisting of Chelsea police, the Rogers County Sheriff's Department and the Oklahoma Highway Patrol made good their intent that nothing would disrupt funeral services for the local hero and his family.

Chelsea Mayor Kenny Weast, all of the law enforcement agencies, and especially the motorcycle-riding veterans deserve credit for marginalizing Phelps and his nasty little band of hate-mongers. Veterans may have fought for the freedom that allows Phelps to disrupt the funeral of a soldier, but that doesn't mean they can't creatively (and legally) fight back. Good on 'em!


Listed below are links to weblogs that reference VFW Bikers Drown Out Phelps Funeral Protest:

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Comments (43)

ooh I am loving it...... (Below threshold)

ooh I am loving it...

Forget where I saw it now b... (Below threshold)

Forget where I saw it now but apparently Phelps is good buddies with Algore.

You goofballs, acting like ... (Below threshold)
Margie Phelps:

You goofballs, acting like those biker chicks changed anything in Chelsea. These girls on trikes have been present at every funeral where we have counter picketed. They stand among a crowd of chest-thumping, flag-waving howling necromancers, guaranteeing by their commotion that EVERYONE looks over at our signs. This may have escaped your attention, but noise doesn't block sight. Everyone can see our signs. They gather in mob-crowds at these funerals, to worship the dead and cuss God. It's a great audience for us when we arrive. Their noise level dramatically increases when we take out our signs, causing everyone to note the words on the signs. Our goal is to publish; they ensure this happens. It's all great! Then goofy crybabies like you republish the message by a lot of wishful whining about the motorcycle noise. It's SO predictable -- and SO effective in publishing our message. That way NO ONE can stand at the Judgment Seat and say they didn't know. America is doomed. The Destroyer is on the way. Watch! Magormissabib. Margie Phelps 10/13/2005

I was one of the six Tachmo... (Below threshold)
Shirley Phelps-Roper:

I was one of the six Tachmonites from Westboro Baptist Church (see www.godhatesfags.com and www.godhatesamerica.com). Our picket was 1:20 to 2 - the funeral was at 2. Our signs shown gloriously - the mob of bikers all received a message from their King. They will not heed the message - they will not turn from their evil ways. America will not heed - we have been warning you for 15 years - now all of you have to admit that the wrath of God is pouring out - all the news has to report is the wrath of God. You can't change that with a lot of noise and chest thumping. America has sinned away her day of grace - America is doomed! Stay tuned for the next installment of the adumbrations of the wrath of God. Meanwhile, God is blowing the fruit of America to bits and his weapon of choice is the IED. Good stuff!! Try and fix that with some fussy biker chicks a/k/a Dykes on Bikes!

Oh and I'm loving the fact that you put the words right out there - you think you can fix God real good by marginalizing his people! Nice - see if that works for you in the great and terrible Day of Judgment that is just around the corner!

2 Chronicles 36:14 Moreover all the chief of the priests, and the people, transgressed very much after all the abominations of the heathen; and polluted the house of the LORD which he had hallowed in Jerusalem.
15 And the LORD God of their fathers sent to them by his messengers, rising up betimes, and sending; because he had compassion on his people, and on his dwelling place:
16 But they mocked the messengers of God, and despised his words, and misused his prophets, until the wrath of the LORD arose against his people, till there was no remedy.
17 Therefore he brought upon them the king of the Chaldees, who slew their young men with the sword in the house of their sanctuary, and had no compassion upon young man or maiden, old man, or him that stooped for age: he gave them all into his hand.

THIS STORY JUST WARMS MY HE... (Below threshold)
oliver bush:



That's the great thing abou... (Below threshold)

That's the great thing about free speech. It guarantees that morons like OHB and Phelps self-identify themselves as such.

Mark 13:32 "But of that day... (Below threshold)

Mark 13:32 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

I can't believe these scumb... (Below threshold)

I can't believe these scumbags are in here, spewing hate and passing along their website.

They better not protest in my town -- we honor the dead here.

My cousin is over there and my brother is in line to go over, and should anything happen to them, I assure you, these scumbags will not want to come here. And if they do? Well, we'll see how far those signs will fit up their so-obviously-pretending-not-to-be-gay arses.

Matthew 16:1 The Pharisees... (Below threshold)
Shirley Phelps-Roper:

Matthew 16:1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.
2 He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.
3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?
4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. (Think same sex marriage; divorce and re-marriage which is adultery; think sex with animals, etc.)
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
32 Remember Lot’s wife. (Lot's wife was a fag enabler - that would be all you freaks that sit on the fence and say - this does not pertain to me - this is an issue for others and I will sit here and take pot shots - YOU are a fag enabler so just SHUT UP and live with the fact that you are going to hell and there is nothing you can do about it!)

Have a lovely day!

Mark 10:18 "And Jesus said ... (Below threshold)

Mark 10:18 "And Jesus said to him, 'Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.' "

"You have no right to criticize your brother or look down on him. Remember, each of us will stand personally before the Judgement Seat of God. For it is written, 'As I live', says the Lord, 'every knee shall bow to me and every tongue confess to God.' Yes, each of us will give an account of himself to God." (Rom. 14:10-12)

johnthorpe 4:16Her... (Below threshold)

johnthorpe 4:16

Here's a verse from my favorite book of the bible.

"Those who live in Kansas and spew hate shall be mocked, spit upon, and ultimately sent to hell upon death. Mostly for being total jackasses. Love, God."

I enjoy sitting here and ta... (Below threshold)

I enjoy sitting here and taking pot shots -- you fat old church ladies are the perfect target. It isn't like you're a moving target -- your opinions haven't progessed at all in the past 2000 years.

I cannot believe the amount of time and effort you old biddies spend fighting the fact that you are gay. Face it -- anyone who expends this much energy protesting gayness is in denial.

Do us all a favor. Go out, meet a nice lady, and get to mashing. And then bugger off.


TF??<br ... (Below threshold)


Dammit!! the "W" got cut of... (Below threshold)

Dammit!! the "W" got cut off....I STINK!

Meanwhile, God is... (Below threshold)

Meanwhile, God is blowing the fruit of America to bits and his weapon of choice is the IED.

Really? God is acting through the group of people who are building and placing IEDs? Is God also acting through this same group of people when a 16-year old girl is punished for being raped by her brother by being killed ?

What OHB seems to fail to grasp is that people like the Phelps are more the "ideological brethren" to the very people we're fighting in the Mid-East than they are to those towards whom he directed his comment.

- MikeB

The Phelps need to remember... (Below threshold)

The Phelps need to remember what is in store for them.... They certainly are the opposite of the Christian Jesus who was not filled with hate for fellow man...

Reading from Matthew 7:1-5:

1Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what 1measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why 1beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Jesus tells us specifically to “judge not” our fellow man, so that we “be not judged”. That “judgement” is the penalty if we judge. That is, the hardness of our heart to judge others people is reflected in our own judgement by a righteous and perfect God.

Jesus said that when we judge others, we have a “beam” or log in our own eye. This “beam” is our own pride in placing ourselves above our fellow man and becoming his judge. Only God can judge man, not other men.

I give the Phelps' spawn a ... (Below threshold)

I give the Phelps' spawn a lot of leeway to spew their garbage because they were horribly beaten as kids, they've had a rough life. Poppa Fred is apparently a real monster who went after his wife and kids with baseball bats, axe handles, mattocks, etc. This is all well known in Topeka, where Fred has been operating his "church" (actually just him and his extended family) for many years. You can read all the sickening details investigated by a local newspaper and included as Exhibit A in a legal document here

Warning: it's not for the weak of stomach.

Oh, and Ollie? Fred Phelps... (Below threshold)

Oh, and Ollie? Fred Phelps is anti-war, hates America, and is in fact a Democrat. This puts him in closer ideological proximity to you rather than the rest of us.

Put that in your crack pipe and smoke it, Ollie.

The Phelpsies forget that G... (Below threshold)

The Phelpsies forget that God decides who are His people. He knows what is in the heart of each of us, and judges accordingly.

I don't know what's in the heart of a Phelpsie, and lacking God's infinite fortitude I'm sure I couldn't bear to look.

Do unto others as you would... (Below threshold)

Do unto others as you would have done unto yourselves.

And what about the pakistan... (Below threshold)
spurwing plover:

And what about the pakistan earthquake? is it gods punishment for pupporting and hiding terrorists that kill inocent persons?

John 13:34-35"A new ... (Below threshold)

John 13:34-35
"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know you are my disciples, if you love one another."

I don't understand why ever... (Below threshold)

I don't understand why every time Phelps comes up some liberals want to paint him as a conservative, and some conservatives want to paint him as a liberal. I don't care what party he used to be involved in, he's in a category of his own. No one of any political ideology agrees with him, except his incestuous band of single-helix followers.

It has always seemed... (Below threshold)
B Moe:

It has always seemed obvious to me that anyone who thinks sexuality is a choice is bi-sexual. I do not get aroused or excited by men, so it has never been a choice for me. If you could choose to be gay then you must be aroused by both and be in fact bi-sexual. I think this is why so many who think it is a choice are so adamently against the homo side, to compensate for their conflicted inner feelings.

That said, I still would like to hit Phelps in the face with an axe handle.

To those who claim to be th... (Below threshold)

To those who claim to be the phelps family members, you need to be reminded of the words of the psalmist: "The L-rd comes to those who call upon Him, to all who call upon Him in truth." You sure aren't, especially considering that of the 613 laws in the Jewish Bible, you in all likelihood violate 612 of them.

Hypocrites you are and hypocrites you will always be.

WOW! This Phelps clan is qu... (Below threshold)

WOW! This Phelps clan is quite the piece-of-work, isn't it?
Being a retired veteren with a disability myself...I don't think it is wise to call our members of military service, our veterens, and our veteren groups a bunch of 'Biker Chicks' because some of 'us' occasionally ride motorcycles for causes. If our countrys military is just made up of 'Biker Chicks'...then there is a serious problem.
You have no idea what a 3am alert phone call from your unit really means or entails, so please just move to some 3rd world country and do your work as religous missionaries instead of fostering gay hate when we honor our military dead. Obviously, you do not cherish America...so please leave!
You hide behind your message & your protests, but actually do very little to foster a positive change of the situation.
Besides, who are you to pass judgement on the gay lifestyle anyway? Not that I support it myself, mind you. But people do occasionally make choices in lifestyle full knowing the consequences of thier actions. If thier sin is so horendous that is is an abobination in the eyes of God, so be it & let them be judged when the time comes.

On another note...the bible that you profess from is quite a bit removed from the 'real' word of God. If you really want to get fundamental, you have to go back in time & get the original unedited books of the bible from before the 'Council of Nicea' and certainly before the 'King James version' that re-wrote what we know as our Holy Bible...when the real word of God was changed to suit and reflect the political ambitions & agendas of the day, a long time ago. So even as you quote passages, you are following the agendas of men & kings of our past rather than God's true intent.

I am a born again christian... (Below threshold)

I am a born again christian, and groups such as the Westboro Bapt. Church make me ill. Yes, God does not accept homosexuality, and in fact hates homosexuality. But, GOD DOES NOT HATE THE PERSON, and neither should you! "Love the person, hate the sin" - does this quote ring a bell? Remember Epehsians 6 - We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities of the air...etc...

Please stop making a bad name for the rest of us TRUE christians who actually live by the teachings of Jesus. How much blood are you going to have on your hands on judgement day??

How sad this so-called fami... (Below threshold)

How sad this so-called family is. To think that someone who supposedly wanted to follow God, has turned his children and their children into such misinformed monsters of hate. Who is he to make judgements? Or his children? I'm sad for them. No matter who much education these people have, they're very ignorant.

Phelps isn't going to live forever, and he'll answer for his crimes of blasphemy. I hope his brethern will wake up before it's too late.

Hey all...I found this site... (Below threshold)

Hey all...I found this site quite by accident. I find it humorous that the Phelps family is on here posting. Just ignore them. They were shocking 15 years ago but now they are just sad.

Moving on...as a comment to jsr's comment. I do find it funny that you claim to know what god likes and dislikes. I guess he spends a lot of time chatting with you?

The religious in this country are doing more to end religion in this country than an athiest would ever do. Keep going.

JSR -- Can you tell me wher... (Below threshold)

JSR -- Can you tell me where in the Bible does the word Homosexual, Gay, Fag, Fags and/or Lesbian appear? Hey wait, it doesn't appear, since there wasn't a word for it in the original languages (the Jewish part of the Bible that Christians call the Old Testament) was originally written in Hebrew and the New Testament was written in Greek, any of the above words do not appear. The only verse that might condemn homosexuality is Leviticus 18:22 but since this is in the middle of Jewish Ceremonial law we really cannot be certain. In the laws we find the dietary laws using the same verbiage is in Lev. 18:22. Saint Peter of Jerusalem held the first Jewish Council which defined what a Gentile had to do become a Christian. Out of this Council came the revelation that a Gentile didn't not have to follow the Jewish laws as defined in Leviticus.

Therefore is a Gentile we do not have to follow the some 633 Jewish laws. The primary 2 laws that we must follow are: You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and the first commandment. The second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments. This is from the Gospel of Matthew 22:34-40. I do not see this with Fred Phelps and his flock of false prophets.


How much are the Phelps mak... (Below threshold)
Henry Spurlock:

How much are the Phelps making off of this. I know that they have P.O. Boxes and other idiots out there believe in them. If anyone knows of a IRS person, hint, hint.

Are they protesting for what they believe in? Or is it a scam to collect from the weak?

George -Read Roman... (Below threshold)

George -

Read Romans 1:26-29 Paul talking about present day happenings, not under the old law. That argument is surpassed altogether.

I am a member of The AMERIC... (Below threshold)
Jim Jones:

I am a member of The AMERICAN LEGION RIDERS that were in Oklahoma for the funeral.Along with our group were members of BACA,Christian Motorcycle club,Vietnam Vets And a score of other groups but no VFW riders.

I was at South Haven Ks. Fo... (Below threshold)
Jim Jones:

I was at South Haven Ks. For funeral and the state law says no protests one hour before ,during or two hours after the funeral . As soon as the plague left they were arrested by the state police for going over their time limit . These people don't care about laws all they care about is spreading lies.If you tell a lie enough times the weak minded will take it as true.

JSR:Romans 1:26-29... (Below threshold)


Romans 1:26-29 doesn't do away with any of my statements. Lust is perverted even in Male-Female relations. Sex out of a committed relationship is wrong even in a Male-Female relation. This passage is not a condemnation of homosexuality itself but a condemnation Greek behavior which incorporated sex acts in temple worship.

Paul's teachings are suspect when you look at 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 which support the oppression of women and in Philemon 1:15-16 where Paul supports slavery.

The complete passage describes how the ex-Christians orgiastic heterosexual activities. Behavior such as this was very common in Pagan fertility religions in Rome when Paul wrote his letter to the Romans. Paul in the passage states that God "gave them over" to something new: homosexual behavior. What is implied here is that they were heterosexual all of the natural life and God influenced them so that they engaged in an "unnatural" act. In the same fashion if a homosexual engages in heterosexual behavior then this would be an "unnatural" act. The passage in Romans is not a condemnation of homosexual behavior but disproves of sexual behavior that is against a person's basic nature.

C. Ann Shepherd writes: "When the scripture is understood correctly, it seems to imply that it would be unnatural for heterosexuals to live is homosexuals, and for homosexuals to live as heterosexuals.

Paul Hahne writes:
1) "[Romans 1] Verses 26-27 exploit Jewish cultural prejudices.
2) Good rhetorical Strategy: begin with assumptions of audience, build on them to make your point.
3) So Romans 1:26-27 speaks only of heterosexual people who act 'contrary to their nature.'
4) The text provides neither ethical nor behavior to lesbian, gay or bisexual people.

Another commentary reads: "...God created each of us with a sexual orientation. To attempt to change it is, in effect, telling God that He created us wrong. The creation (us) does not have the right to 're-create" itself."

The root word from Leviticus is "abomination". This word means "unclean" and the word used in the original Hebrew is "toebah". And is written ~587 BC or earlier to document the Purity Code of the Israelites -- the 12 tribes that settled in modern day Lebanon and Israel. Purity means culturally-determined rules specifying what is symbolically "clean" and "dirty". We have purity language used today for instance "dirty words" or "dirty pictures". Modern Christianity doesn't endorse the Israelite purity code. Jesus constantly violated the Israelite purity code. (Luke 11:37-42, Mark 1:40-41, Mark 5:25-34, Mark 5:41, Mark 7:1-23) The Gospel writers make it clear that purity is irrelevant.

L. William Countryman writes "[There is] one point which [the Gospels] all agree: for Christians, physical purity is no longer a determinative element in their relationship with God. ...The Gospels dismiss purity, not selectively but across the board. They do not isolate some one aspect of it (food laws) for repudiation while tacitly retaining other aspects (leprosy, or circumcision, or sex)."

Rejection of the Israelite Purity Code was a defining characteristic of early Christianity. And, is all-or-nothing. So therefore any attempt selectively enforce Israel's tribal prohibition on homoeroticism as "Christian morality" is hypocritical, unBiblical, and unChristlike.

In Romans 1-3, Paul exploits certain firt-century Jewish cultural assumptions to teach about everyone's need for grace. Paul's teaching has nothing to do with homoeroticism.

The most common idolatry during Paul's time was pagan religions. Homoeroticism in these pagan religions was accepted as part of the broader culture and part of some of the pagan rituals. Christianity during Paul's time was a sect of Judaism that allowed Gentiles to join -- in essence we had Jewish Christains and Gentile Christans. The Jewish Christian often held prejudicism towards the Gentiles for being "unclean". Today in Christianity, it is almost 100 percent Gentile (non-Jewish) -- so in essence we have only Gentile Christians and the prejudicism still exists.

Paul was a Jew and a Pharisee so being these two things he was a staunch upholder of Jewish law codes. He originally persecuted the Christians. He converted to Christianity via a paranormal experience when Jesus Christ spoke to him after the resurrection. After conversion to Christianity he spent the rest of his life preaching the Christian message. He wrote server letters to the early Christian communities.

In the passage that you mentioned Paul uses three different categories for behavior. His categories were not as simple as "good verses bad". The first category is "clean verses "unclean". The second category is "honorable" verses "dishonorable". And finally the third category is "sinful" verses "not sinful". In Romans 1:26-27, Paul doesn't use the term sin but uses "socially dishonorable". He uses the Greek word "atimias" which means "Degrading" This word refers to social dishonor so therefore the mean is "dishonorable. He also uses the Greek word "plane" meaning "error". He has use this word before and after where it is translated is "wrong belief" not "bad actions' as many translations of the Bible have translated it. "Para phsin" is Greek for "Devaiting from the ordinary order either in a good or a bad sense, as something that goes beyond the ordinary realm of experience." Most translations of the Bible do some thing that is very dangerous by translating "para physin" as "unnatural". "Physis" isn't translated as "Natural Law" or "physical law of nature", it is translated however is "a fundamental cultural rule or a convention, proper or inborn character or appearance, or the true being of a person or a thing."

Paul is saying in the passage that you quoted me "Idolatry caused social dishonor." There are unspoken assumptions here: "Gentles in the distant past had only heteroerotic relations because everyone, as we well know, is heterosexual. What is spoken in this s passage is "But because of their sin of idolatry, God visited dishonor on the Gentiles. These heterosexual gentiles deviated form convention and started having same-sex relations." These verses are meaningless outside of the broader context of Romans Chapters 1, 2, and 3. Romans 1 plays to an anti-Gentile bias in Jewish Christians. Paul is unwilling to use the word "Gentile" so we get phrases like "people who do such things" instead of the "the Gentiles". The only purpose in the broad since of Romans 1:26-27 is to lay a foundation for Paul's teaching that everyone has sinned. Paul never uses the word "sin" when speaking of homoeroticism. He uses "dishonor" which is not the same is sin. There is no ethical principle for opposing homoeroticism in these verses. He does use a good rhetorical strategy by beginning with assumptions of his audience -- his audience was the Christians of Rome which comprised of Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians -- then he built upon them to make his point. The passage speaks only to heterosexual people who act "contrary to their nature" as the unspoken assumption is that everyone is heterosexual that Paul is writing to.

The text in question provides neither ethical nor behavioral guidance to lesbian, gay, or bisexual people.

The New Testament has a common theme of God looks with favor on the those outcast by society.

There is evidence that holy scripture does endorse same-sex love -- in 2 Samuel you will find where David is speaking: "I am distressed for you, my brother Jonathan; very pleasant have you been to me; your love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women."

Paul in Gal. 3:28 wrote: "There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no long slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus."

Finally all 7 alleged "condemnations" of homosexuality or homoerotisms can be debunked.


George -It's funny... (Below threshold)

George -

It's funny how you wrote such a long comment, but made absolutely no sense whatsoever. You sir, are so misinformed about the scriptures that I sat here and laughed at your attempt at intelligence. For you to twist the scriptures to imply that they referred only to the heterosexual jews/gentiles is absolutely HILARIOUS. All scriptures are, in fact, about HUMAN BEINGS - MAN (in general). Even more hilarious is the fact that you try to pass this off as some new enlightment of this age. I guess for the past 2,000 years we all have been reading just the heterosexual side of things. My gosh! Let me re-shape my whole life and throw out all traditions, heritages, and etc, after you show me the homosexual side of it all that apparently exists. Are these part of the "lost books of the bible"? Is there actually some "gay-sea scrolls" that are being kept locked away somewhere that only you have access to?? Wow...my whole world has been turned upside down. Darn the history books and teachers! Darn all of those geneological records! Darn all of those heritages passed down through generations. They all lied! We've been living in a heterosexual fantasy world.......GIVE ME A FREAKIN BREAK!

It's amazing that people would say anything and explain things in such idiotic ways that have no basis or factuality to promote a leftist, homosexual agenda.

JSR,You, sir, need... (Below threshold)


You, sir, need a lesson in humility and humanity as I see none. You also probably need a lesson in Greek.

You need a break? I need a break from the Bible thumpers who quote the Bible out of context. I need a break from people who think the know the Bible but really don't. I have made it my life's work to understand the Bible and the real meaning of Christianity so that I can have a closer relationship with God and Christ. Since I am adopted by God as his own child, I can call in Abbà, Father, Abbà

History books are written by man and certainly do contain may, may errors. Most of the history books have the history of the Black Man all wrong. Most of the history books have the history of Navite Americans all wrong -- why because they were written with prejudicism and hatred towards another race or group of persons because they are different. It is only in the last few years that this has changed.

The Bible can be used for any one's needs. Every translation of the Bible is not done in a vacuum, it done with a particular agenda. In my last post, the only thing I got was translations of the original Greek and Hebrew out of another book everything else is from the Bible.

It is fact that David lamented the death of Jonathan (2 Samuel 1:26) by saying that "Your love for me is wonderful, more wonderful than that of a women."

It is fact that Paul was writing to the Christians of Rome. It is fact that the Christians of Rome was primarily converted Jews. It is fact that Paul whose original name was Saul. It is fact that Saul was converted to Christianity on the road to Damascus to arrest prominent members of the Jerusalem Church. This would have been a kidnapping operation as Damascus was not under Roman rule. It is fact that Saul was born a Jew and trained to be a Pharisee. (Gal 1:13-14) It is fact that Saul saw a vision of Jesus on the road to Damascus that converted him from a persecutor to a believer. The event happened after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. (Gal. 1:15-16, Acts 9:1-31; 22; 26) At this event he became know as Paul. It is fact that Paul was sexist, a supporter of slavery, and is one of the major sources of anti-semitism. It is fact that Paul is right sometimes and at other times wrong.

It is fact that Jesus Christ never ever spoke about homosexuality or homoerotism.

Jesus is not the founder of Christianity as we know it today. What we Christians call the New Testement contains very little historical information about Jesus and was influenced mainly by Apostle Paul (Paul is called in Apostle because of the way he was converted.) Paul paganized the teachings of Jesus Christ. Jesus preached an enlightened form of Judaism. Paul created Pauline Christianity. There are no known writings from Jesus nor the actual Apostles nor anyone that actually knew Christ in the flesh (other then maybe James), most of what Jesus taught is lost forever.

Paul like all men had his own agenda. I try to read the Bible with that in mind and with prayer. Reading the Bible in context and with an open mind and the knowledge that the writer (many of the writings in the Bible are not written by the person who is attributed to the book) and that the actual translation into English is done by men who have personal agendas, is the only way to read the Bible.

Since the Isrealite Purity Laws do not come into play for the non-Jew and Christ doesn't saw a word about homosexuality, then you nor any of the hypocrites that preach hate cannot condemn anyone who is homosexual. The one who could condemn anyone for sin has been cast out of heaven with the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. So who gives to the power to Fred Phelps and his cronies to condemn, certainly not Jesus Christ nor the Lord God almighty. I can only think of one power that condemns. Can you guess which power that is? It is the power of Satan.

We are twice removed from the language of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ probably spoke Aramaic and what he said was then translated into Greek. Then it was translated into English -- originally done by a commission by King James. Which according to the Rector of my Chruch is probably the best translation into English but because of the changes in English is the worst to read. There are words that don't translate into English so the translators have to make a judgement call based on the symbols around the completed context. The judgement call may not be correct. In a recent local paper there front page headline read "UK crowns new Queen." Just at first look at the headline you see "UK". To many people "UK" means "United Kindom" but to most people in Kentucky it means "Univeristy of Kentucky." If someone in the far future who was trying to translate this into another language may or may not get it right.

Whom do you follow Christ or Paul? I follow Christ and his two great commandments: "You shall love your God with all your heart, with all of your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And, the second is like unto it, you shall your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." (Matthew 22:35-40)

George -If you rea... (Below threshold)

George -

If you read my earlier posts, I never once said that I hate just as the Phelps group. Not once. I despise the Phelps group and their tactics! I hate the sin of homosexuality, but I have never said that I hate the person. I never have, and I never will.

Furthermore, if you want to use the argument that most of the New Testament was written by others and not Jesus, then let me turn that into this:
All history books would then in fact be null and void as well. What are the chances that anything in this world of history is fully first-hand? Not many. History in itself is what people saw going on around them and they in turn documented it. How are we to actually know and trust that say, George Washington led the troops across the Delaware? Someone on that boat obviously wrote that. Just because President Washington himself might not have wrote that, am I to dispel that it actually happened? How about the phrase "the Mayflower landed on Plymouth Rock" No one was standing on land when the boat came ashore, they were all on the boat! Or so it says in the history books. Sound ridiculous? Exaclty what your view sounds like...ridiculous. You have gotten way off the point of the original post.

I would just like to say:</... (Below threshold)

I would just like to say:

A) I am a born-again Christian.

B) Fred Phelps and his gang of haters does NOT speak for me, or for the Christian church, or, especially, for God. He disgraces Christians everywhere with his hateful actions, and God will bring him low for his pride.

Let's see...first, a big SA... (Below threshold)

Let's see...first, a big SALUTE' - to the bikers and police chief. Then to Ms. Phelps & company - -the God you worship condones your group's behavior? What's it's name - Beelzebub?!
These men fought and died for their country, regardless of the morons, like you, that enjoy the freedoms they fought and died for.
This country will go on! We are founded on the doctrines of the one true God - I AM - and his son Jesus Christ. Repent now and He will forgive you...but it may take the rest of us a while longer to forgive you, because what you and your hedonistic followers are doing is despicable.
God bless the USA!

You know...I just served a ... (Below threshold)

You know...I just served a tour in Iraq and I just heard about this petty bs. How is someone going to say that we deserve to die out there, when we are the ones that are protecting your right to curse our names? And those that are against homosexuality are just not educated enough. I am not saying that it is right, but who am I to judge someone else for their lifestyle?? Who...God?? Yea, I didn't think I (or anyone else for that matter) was. I know that everyone has a right to their own opinions, but for goodness' sakes, keep it to yourself. Don't make someone else's life even worse than what they are going through. I know what it is like to loose a loved one. It may be a pointless war, but that doesn't mean that we refuse to do our job. Don't worry...they would get killed if they went to any military town and protested. Let them come to North C. and they can see what would happen to them. And I would be right there with the rest of the Marine's going to jail for beating them unconcious with their own signs. They are the one's that are going to answer to God at the Gates of Heaven when they die and they are going to be turned away with a furry! God have mercy on their souls. They will burn in Hell for all eternity for the blasphemy that they are uttering out of their self-rightous, filthy mouths. If they don't like the way the country is lead, or protected, then get the hell out!!

These people protesting at ... (Below threshold)

These people protesting at funerals (phelps and his demons) are pure evil or at the very least so misguided as to be evil itself.

Btw, the ultimate evil is not satan but is in fact the 'misguided christian'.

Be careful, that you do not do these funeral protests at any that I show up at.
I wont be able to assure your survival.
Because of your evil, I will be carrying a gun at all future funerals (I deplore this personal action but phelps evil group is forcing this response).

Btw, I support protest, and would even support your protest itself, except for the fact that you are doing it at funerals.

That act itself is pure evil.

I console myself in knowing that though what I am doing is wrong, is a lesser evil than what phelps & his ungodly group are doing.

Concerning comments about j... (Below threshold)

Concerning comments about jesus and the bible.
JSR, you need to learn to read a bit better.

Even if one totally believes all there is about the bible..>Jesus didnt write it.

GOD himself wrote it thru godly-inspired men.

NOT JESUS, NOT GOD himself, but GOD thru men.
Ie; men wrote it down (whether GOD spoke to them or took over their hands during writing, is not the issue here).

The idea of who wrote it, not subject to faith or belief, just fact.

The debate should be was it men who were godly inspired or men who pretended to be godly.

But lets not forget that if you were to read the original texts (where possible) there are many items that did not translate or tranlated incorrectly or even never corrected to begin with.

Such as the fact that the bible did talk of a flat earth, but was later edited out in future translations.

Btw, to find that, you must read the original language, not KJ.

Even modern translaters are failing to do it correctly (NIV is a great example of inaccurate and even untrue statements that were never ever in even the original KJ).

I personally have read NIV versese that are totally opposite of KJ. Though many arent, there are many. SO many that I only allow KJ or older (excluding our family history bibles).






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