I don't think anyone is going to learn until the killing starts.

I don't think they'd be dumb enough to try this here. After all, a lot of the civilians over here are armed. Try burning an old lady on a bus in my town and you'll get yourself shot.

I'm pretty sure US mayors and governors won't wait 10 days before establishing a curfew- more like 3. And if the curfew didn't work, martial law after 7 days seems like what we'd expect- certainly, the national guard would have been deployed instead of beat cops.

I've been amazed that the police there seem to be trying to persuade people to stop rioting- the number of arrests seems incredibly low, if the scale and violence of the riots described in the news media are to be believed.

Unlike some others I don't France's problem as one of Muslims carrying on an intifada. I think this is an indication of what happens when you have a combination of welfare state, unrestricted immigration and a socialist based econmy with high unemployment. Eventually, the balloon implodes.

The immigration here is a different thing. Islam is a completely violent and unforgiving culture, caught in the 9th century, with different institutions and morals, and violently fighting in a 1400 year battle that unfortunately modern Christian and Western, particularly European and Liberal culture has forgetten -- Europe is a dying animal, being led to the slaughter. However, immigrants from Latin American to the US come from a Western European, devout Christian Catholic culture with similar attidutes toward family, economics, and religion. The differences are basically language, and some institutional defects (such as attitudes toward corruption, etc.)-- much easier for assimilation and productive activity. We need to keep our current wars straight, and not confuse the issue.

What's already been written here (^^, all, including Jay Tea), and, I commented on another website the other day -- one that's been covering the rioting in France -- that this brings to mind many habitats and entire towns/communties in past human history: surrounded by moats, high impermiable walls with watch towers and armed guards, built into cliffs accessible only by ropes and ladders, on walled structures in the middle of lakes with spikes all around in the water otherwise...

Our ancestors didn't resort to that sort of "normal" family daily life for no reason. We have guns today for some but the motivations remain the same, I think: keep out the hoardes who pillage, plunder, murder and rampage. I think it's useless to assume you can reason with the humans who resort to pillaging, plundering, all of that, you just have to build and act accordingly if you want to survive them and the damage they do.

Not like many haven't figured that out already, just saying, waiting for people like this to calm down or modify themselves for the better seems a lost cause. France -- d'oh -- waited. And that's after they failed to project their future given a course of unprotective actions.

But, someone please explain to me the swarming, rioting behavior. I completely do not understand it.

Dr. Scott: you musta' missed the L. A. Riots. There were more than one, by the way.

I disagree that the multi-culturalism standard that Europe has been going for and trying to accommodate is unique to their continent. The U.S. has similar problems for similar, if not exactly the same, reasons.

It is my understanding that Chirac is going to meet with "community leaders" from the rioting areas, to work out the terms of France's surrender no doubt.

We should all unite.

We are ALL Frenchmen now.

Um, maybe not.

Until the civilized world decides to take a stand, and put an end to the seepage of this Islamic sewerage, we will all be in danger. Despising both the French and the Germans for their anti-US stands in public, where it counts most, I am enjoying watching this episode play out. The French will let this go on and on, and this will occur in many other areas of Europe. So be it. When they tire of this Islamic problem, the US will be prepared for a final solution to this problem.

I can see this getting very ugly. If this keeps up we could very well see the French, Germans, and others swing to the complete opposite extreme. Facism is never very far under the surface over there, even at their socialistic height. Those western europeans are crazy like that.

Viva la Socialism!

Ditto the comments re Latinos. Hell of a lot of difference between them and Muslims.

My Latino friends (in N.C.--not sure about southwest and California, but I suppose the same exists there) love the U.S., and would be more assimilated but for the language and cultural barriers we white folk are partly responsible for. It takes two to tango!

And, they think the Muslims are scarey, just like we do. . .

The French did not just "allow" the African immigrants to remain culturally seperate they actively encouraged it. they also refused to make any compromise to the immigrants language, religion &cultural background, claiming it was their responsibility to become french (read secular).

Whereas I believe it is vital immigrants do assimilate into the social & cultural mores of the society they are living in (why live there otherwise?), the host society also has a responsibility to assist this process & not "ghettoise" their immigrants.

Dear "S," no I didn't miss the LA riots, in fact I lived in LA during the riots. And at that time I was very involved in the Korean community -- it was clearly a clash of economics and culture, and by the way these riots in only a tangential way involved Hispanics. As an obvious point, the LA riots were highly contained compared to the violence that is currently sweeping France and other countries.

Re multiculturism, by any standard statistic (and there several that are regularly used for research), the US is the most multicultural society in the world. And our multiculturism starts from a completely different historical and current perspective from Europe's far more recent effort -- that is, from entreprenuerial economic transitions rather than the socialism, guilt, and welfare ideas that pervades European thinking (I have also lived in Europe for many years). To reject the historical imperatives of the modern world is not only foolish (as the Europeans are finding out) but shows a relevant lack of understanding of history -- the rise and fall (and their root causes) of various civilizations during the last 2000 years. I suggest a deep study of the Byzantine civilization, and its later conflicts with Islam, and what happens when a civilization doesn't stand up and fight. It falls.

"Final solution" Billburz? Would you care to elaborate on that for us?

Hmmm.

"Final solution" Billburz? Would you care to elaborate on that for us?

I say let's tie the buggers down and force them to listen to endless repetitions of "Muskrat Love" until they promise to give up violence.

And if they break their promise? They'll be listening to "The Love Boat" until they scream for mercy.

And will there be any? No. The Love Boat knows not of mercy.

:)

You go Ed the Terrible.

Looks like the Germans didn't need an Army to take France .... just a bunch of slackers.

Where the LA riots "Christian Riots"? If not, then how come the Paris riots are "Muslim Riots"?

The final solution that I refer to is the outlawing, worldwide, of the Muslim religion. If moderate, and I use the term loosely, arabs, cannot civilize their religion and control their spawn, than the world must do it for them.

If you see a situation develop where nations that control the energy destiny of the world for the next 50 years, lose control of their nations, than calamity will reign. Keep in mind that this is no longer the 14th century when Christians fought Muslims, and when the armament was equal on both sides. This is now, and the civilized world has intelligently structured the nuclear imbalance to its advantage, and in the most overwhelming percentages, about 99% to 1%.

If the 'Islamists' reign supreme, than their religion will be declared illegal, and the resultant will be the anniliation of the Muslim population. Perhaps this would be best for all!

Dr. Scott: like I wrote earlier, you musta' missed the L. A. riots (I doubt you lived there for the Watts riot, correct me if I'm wrong about that), because as per your comments, as same with a few others here and elsewhere, there's this tendency to wax poetic about a certain coziness in areas of the U.S. "that would be (just fine, peaceful, "assimilated" and such) if only (name your cultural condition here that's almost always a demand for a cultural imperative from another nation that is demanded upon Americans inorder for that peaceful/fine assimilation and such to occur."

I can wax academically well as well as anyone but about this issue, I've yet to see tomes of web-written words ever reach any resolution about this issue both in Europe AND in the U.S. by other cultures who use the "imposition" method upon the U.S. population rather than become an American, accept this country (or others, similar) as their own, and actually do what is necessary to become an American, a citizen, and actually get on with becoming a part of the country.

No, it continues even here: today many arrive in the U.S. (as they have in France, in Germany, in the U.K.) without sanction of application, screening, learning the language of where they're going before they get there, much more so studying what is involved to live a new life somewhere else and abandon what's ailing them from their origins.

France and most among the American left tries to rationalize people with bad behaviors using the country/ies for selfish, very shortterm reasons. From the look of Los Angeles today, the entire city and county, and many other areas of the country, I can tell you flat out that your comments are not in touch with reality.

Prosaic, yes, but not realistic. The U.S. has the same problem that France has, that the U.K. has about this issue and is undergoing a similar clash economically, socially and politically due to unwelcome behaviors...that are pretty standard from the look of things where the problematic groups originated but bring nothing but wrong behaviors to accommodating countries.

About "Latinos," if they want so much to be a part of America, then why are most of them, at least from Mexico, Brazil, South and Central America, able and willing to abide by the laws of the country? Do they not know how to read and write? Most do, in Spanish, which is more than adequate to visit a Consulate, ask for immigration paperwork and start the process legally, by way of application. IF they did that, they'd find that they are required, inorder to immigrate (at least where the U.S. is concerned), to learn enough English inorder to pass a verbal and written, read evaluation, swear allegiance to the U.S. flag and pass a health screening BEFORE they were granted citizenship.

No, I don't see the huge majority doing that, indicating that they are not interested in becoming an American as much as they are interested in serving themselves.

No one can even dare, honestly, to try to say that "Latinos" are some special class with endearing qualities all eager to be an American, when so many have displayed and for so long so many behaviors that disprove that.

Want to be an American? Go and apply for citizenship where you live and do what the paperwork asks of you. Because THAT's what us U.S. citizens have to do inorder to live our lives here as citizens, in every other area of our lives. And we use our real identities, our actual addresses, fill out our own applications and forms. That's what being a citizen is.

Dear RightWingLiberal -- why weren't the LA riots "Christian riots" Hmmm, let me see -- well unlike what is happening in Europe, perhaps no religious symbolism was involve, no religious structures were targeted (several churches have been burned in Europe), no major religious group called for the violence, and no major religious group justified the violence; guess it isn't really isn't that hard to see the difference.

By they way, it is not all a religous battle right now, certainly a 50% unemployment in a stagnant, welfare French economy has something to do with it -- two tinderboxes (economic deprevation and the historical imperative of Islamic vengence) truly make for an explosive combination.

France is entirely too academic to the point of absurdity about many issues of "liberty." They've been the country in both World Wars who was in need of rescue by other allied countries. I think they're well on their way now to having recklessly allowed a fester to reach massive infection stage and most of that is due to permissiveness in the general country. Or, unwillingness to mind their own advice that's readily available for everyone else.

billburz - how do you outlaw a religion?

Do you mean make it illegal to build temples, attend services, pray to Allah?

Worked well with the Cathloics in Protestant England, with the Jews in Imperial Russia, and with the Christians in the soviet union.

To -S- -- whoa, again I think you missed the point. There is nothing I implied that suggested that Hispanic immigrants shouldn't follow the law, not at all. But the issue of assimilation is also important. No, I didn't live in LA for the Watts riots, but I did live near LA at that time.

And if you want to "wax" academically as you brag you can, then at least get it right.

I will take a good deal of desire, mixed with proper weaponry, combined with a touch of focused cruelty and topped off with a different energy source. Or we could just be like the French I guess.

PS, we must also move Hollywood to Paris!

Allow me, Dr. Scott...there are several issues being commingled on this thread by several commentors writing their own opinions in disparate fashion, not so much connected or in discussion with others but just isolated opinions, and thus, there are many of those commingled aspects to this problem being mentioned here.

Race is one problem, and religious beliefs are another. Every type of both has their differences and when you combine differences of all possible types by way of violations and presumptions upon larger populations, originating in foreign (to the recipient nation) cultures and unknown political influences, without any at least partially exacting process that the larger society can rely on being in place, then you get strange and damaging at it's worst unrest.

Race -- to be straight about it here -- fueled the L.A.riots and it seems to have fueled the New Orleans barbarism and lunacy. Not that races are any one or all of those characteristics BECAUSE of who they are, but that some people congregate in higher numbers within restricted economic areas and what you get are ghettos and slums as a result. No taxes being paid, or little of them, and human congregations see their infrastructures degrade. It's really just a case of "bad" neighborhoods being "bad" because they become worse and more incentivized people move away and take their higher taxes being paid along with them. What's left are poorer people, mostly congregating based upon "like kind" and you get rundown, deprived areas with no leadership or worse, corrupt leadership because no one challenges them, and there you go, people with resentments, no perceptions of hope and goals, and mostly it's all one racial type. And then they go ballistic...but to be honest about it, most of those going ballistic are negroid, in the past and in the present both here and in other nations.

Thus, other races try to contend with that, try to understand, but first have to get the ballistic problem into a calmer group behavior. You can't do the first until you've done the second and the second is then what people complain about and forget the first.

There are a few racial types among us humans who denigrate anyone, ANYone who tries to talk about this in straightforward terms. THAT's the obstacle to solving the problem, right there. If people can't discuss, they don't communicate. And the ugly cycle of wanton destruction and explosive emotional outbursts starts all over again.

Beverly Hills is segregated (Jewish), West Hollywood is segregated (homosexual), East L. A. is segregated (Hispanic), South Central is segregated (Black), Los Angeles major is segregated (Chinese, Korean), Santa Monica is segregated (marxist/communist)...L.A. is just one big city of segregated communities, all careful not to stay too long in someone else's territory.

The ONLY racial/national group of people who DID, effectively, assimilate were the Japanese. They had their Japantown but found after two generations that it was no longer needed...they'd all moved into normal lives as Americans elsewhere. Which is what most Italians did, Irish did, English did, etc.

I dunno, but it does not seem so much a "white" problem as one of other racial types and other politics being brought to the U.S. instead of the U.S. being accepted as precedent in their lives.

To conclude as to your question, the L.A. riots weren't "Christian" because those rioting weren't Christians. It wasn't about religion or in rebellion of religion but about sheer selfishness and disregard for the property and persons of others, complete disregard for self respect by those rioting.

Same with New Orleans.

I love to see posted comments like those responding here...it reminds me that folks who pretend to follow the words of Jesus rant about exclusion when even the most basic reading of recorded words of Jesus reflects inclusion..rant about a religion that recognizes the history of the old testiment. Islam and Judism recognise the prophets of the old testiment including Abraham as a key figure. Jesus as an important prophet. It's those damn Buddists and Hindus that don't..I thank God that Communist China continues to destroy those pagans in Tibet.

The Dr. Scotts (and the Dr. Craigs) of this world keep telling us everything is going to work out just fine!

Meanwhile:
- the Mexican government actively encourages the people that they deliberately send us not to assimilate
- George Bush and the GOP help in ways big and small. For instance, Bush appealed to "Latino" voters on the Spanish-language section of his site using a Mexican flag
- Most "Hispanic" leaders in California and elsewhere are former members of the racial separatist group MEChA. Why, even Raul Grijalva (D-AZ) is a proud former member. And, Howie Dean toured AZ in his company recently.
- The media refuses to discuss this; according to the LAT, MEChA is a "Chicano rights group". They said that *after* LA's mayor finally renounced his leader's position in that group.
- The Ford Foundation has spent dozens of millions of dollars - perhaps hundreds - promoting "multiculturalism" via groups like MALDEF, LULAC, National Council of The Race, etc. etc.

I could go on, but I'd suggest not trusting the Dr. Scott/Craigs of this world.

It would also be nice if this site would clarify its use of the nofollow tag. The trackbacks above currently don't have that tag, but the linked names do, meaning that search engines will ignore those links, like the one on my name.