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California to Build Tunnel in Earthquake Zone

What stupid people...

Calif. May Build Tunnel in Quake Region

ALISO VIEJO, Calif. (AP) - Traffic is so bad along the eastern rim of Los Angeles' suburban ring that regional planners are considering the once unthinkable - an 11-mile tunnel through a mountain range in earthquake country.

The tunnel would begin barely a mile from a fault that produced a 6.0-magnitude earthquake about a century ago. ...

Planners are due to make a decision in mid November on whether to pursue the project.
The proposal for what would be the world's second-longest road tunnel would create a new path between sprawling inland suburbs and Orange County, which has become one of Southern California's fastest-growing job centers.

Such a project could cost up to $9 billion and take 25 years.

Transportation officials insist something drastic must be done to deal with the crippling traffic congestion between Orange and Riverside counties, which are separated by the 25-mile-long Santa Ana Mountains. Nearly 400,000 people commute into Orange County daily from four surrounding counties and nearly all of them drive.

What kind of idiot lives in an earthquake zone.? Really, what moron put a city there? I'll tell you how to solve the traffic problem. All of those people -the whole city- should just move. Move the people out, bulldoze the buildings and make it a big national park.

We should not be spending 1 federal dollar to build a road when WE KNOW an earthquake will destroy it. These people are just stupid.

Look closely at what this is filed under before you comment.


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Comments (36)

I didn't have to read your ... (Below threshold)
Boyd:

I didn't have to read your last line before I figured it out, Paul. The "whole city should just move" line, coming from someone from New Orleans, started my chuckling.

Heh.

Yes, another stupid idea ou... (Below threshold)
Elizabeth:

Yes, another stupid idea out in CA--right along with building subways

What kind of an idiot would... (Below threshold)
Sean:

What kind of an idiot would live in a city below sea level that we KNOW is going to be submerged when a hurricane hits - which we KNOW will happen eventually. Not 1 federal dollar should be spent rebuildng such a city. Those people are just STUPID. The whole city should be leveled and made into a tidal pool.

People in glass houses, Paul. You live in a glass house.

That. That that just happen... (Below threshold)
Tom M:

That. That that just happened right there. That was amazing, that was.

Hey what's the big deal?!? ... (Below threshold)

Hey what's the big deal?!? Haven't we in Boston demonstrated the efficacy of ambitious urban tunnel projects?

So it's practically on a little fault line. I'm confident that Bechtel can design something that is earthquake-proof. Perhaps they can follow Bob Crum's lead from one of the old Zap Comix and build an "all-meat" tunnel that won't crack.

And a great place to house ... (Below threshold)
epador:

And a great place to house all the homeless when the weather is bad.

'Course putting in decent mass transit to OC/RC would be too simple a solution...

Sorry Paul,I agree w... (Below threshold)
Todd:

Sorry Paul,
I agree with Boyd, You of all people have little room to talk... But hey thats America...

"...Mom's gonna fix it all ... (Below threshold)
skegatz:

"...Mom's gonna fix it all soon...Mom's comin' round to put it back the way it ought to be..." Hurry Mom, before they wise up.

Sorry again Paul....Should ... (Below threshold)
Todd:

Sorry again Paul....Should have read the last line.....

Sigh-Some people a... (Below threshold)
Paul:

Sigh-

Some people are just so stupid you can't even hit them in the head with an obvious stick.

What morons.

Hey Boyd, Ya wonder why I have to spell it out?

Sometimes I wonder how people that stupid keep breathing.

Sigh.

35 years to build an 11 mil... (Below threshold)
Neo:

35 years to build an 11 mile long "mass grave".

Paul,At times like... (Below threshold)
Baggi:

Paul,

At times like this I find myself agreeing with folks like Dennis Prager. If someone doesn't understand what is written, it is usually the fault of the author and not of the reader.

Not everyone has a clear grasp of things like hyperbole, sarcasm, metaphor, etc. No reason to call them stupid for it. The best authors learn to write better instead of chalk it up to the fault of the reader for not understanding.

As to California: the tunn... (Below threshold)
-S-:

As to California: the tunnel is what you get with a state overrun by union workers in need of more taxpayer dollars to fund their unions and the DNC nationwide. I doubt that any among them is too awfully concerned with probable earthquakes because all that means is they'll have more work to do, and more taxpayer dollars to do it with.

Unfortunately, Paul, same thing applies to New Orleans, except that the mentality extends throughout the general population there, not limited to only unions and theirs.

Sean sums it up pretty well here (^^). And, the devastation that occured in and around N.O. is far more extensive, far more, than anything ever caused by an earthquake in the U.S. Earthquakes, even the worst of them, don't devastate for weeks, months, years on end, and they are localized -- in comparison, take a look around and remember your neighbors all along the Gulf Coast.

Something else and that is that there are building codes now in CA (as to this state, anyway, where earthquakes are concerned, while I cannot say the same thing for the Midwest and New York City...the most threatening earthquake faultline in North America is the New Madras faultline and it runs through the Midwest), anyway, as to CA, the building codes that exist now require buildings to be retrofitted if built prior to and the new ones to be constructed with earthquakes in mind.

I don't see levies required, by comparison, around each house in New Orleans, nor even stilts required or foundations that are twenty, thirty feet high, built of impermeable concrete or comparable, to withstand the onslaught of the Gulf AND the Mississippi River.

Something to think about.

Why doesn't Louisiana just ... (Below threshold)
-S-:

Why doesn't Louisiana just require homes to float? People could make do quite nicely in the area if they just took to houseboats as standard way of life. That way, next hurricane, next flood, most well built ones would just wash where they would and then they could wait till the next one, wash again to their next place. Seems to make more sense than rebuilding structures that are beneath sea level in an area surrounded by a very large amount of water.

"Not everyone has a clear g... (Below threshold)

"Not everyone has a clear grasp of things like hyperbole, sarcasm, metaphor, etc. No reason to call them stupid for it."

"If someone doesn't understand what is written, it is usually the fault of the author and not of the reader."

Dunno -- when the last line of the post says what it says in italics, and the category reads "Satire" in plain english, I think reader stupidity and not author clarity should be assumed.


Please - only $9 billion - ... (Below threshold)
JAT:

Please - only $9 billion - but the project will take 25 years - let's face it some folks are just "stuck on stupid!"

Hey I used to live out there - I'd think twice about an eleven mile underground venture in LA!

OH! And this is because the traffic is bad - what will occur for 25 years while they dig this big hole?

Ok, is this satire, which t... (Below threshold)
BChoinski:

Ok, is this satire, which the idiots at AP have picked up as news, or are you being sarcastic over a real project? I can't tell which is which!

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20051113/D8DR8Q4G0.html

I swear, modern journalism is rapidly approching the point of no return...

Hey Paul,Mother na... (Below threshold)
Taz:

Hey Paul,

Mother nature may smite you again. The New Madrid fault is about 400 miles to the north of N.O.. If that fault where to move, like it did in 1812-13, you won't need any bulldozers to plow New Orleans. It will be permanently underwater, or dry depending on how the Mississippi flow is changed.

Californians are stupid; that tunnel would be a mass grave.

Baggi, As Boyd and... (Below threshold)
Paul:

Baggi,

As Boyd and Vicky both point out, not only is it obvious satire but I labeled it as such THEN I made a special point to tell people to read the labels before they commented.

If I write "THIS IS SATIRE" and people don't know it is satire, well, they're stupid.

Lemme address this point:</... (Below threshold)
Paul:

Lemme address this point:

>Not everyone has a clear grasp of things like hyperbole, sarcasm, metaphor, etc. No reason to call them stupid for it

Yes there is.

Where do you define stupid? If they can drink from a cup without drooling they're smart?

It's like the old adage: "He who laughs last, didn't get the joke."

Anyone adult who doesn't understand satire when it spelled out for them can safely be called stupid. QED

Paul, I think you should ha... (Below threshold)

Paul, I think you should have been clearer and defined "satire". Golly, you're so insensitive.
[/satire]

I suspect that feckless and... (Below threshold)
epador:

I suspect that feckless and mindless carelessness is a better descriptor than stupidity. Hopefully a lesson learned for all.

Like the test my Fifth Grade teacher gave: Top line said: "Read entire test before writing on this paper." Last line said: "Write your name on the top then hand this in." Those that followed the directions got 100%, everyone else, who dove into the test and wrote answers on the paper, failed.

Their errors were not due to lack of intelligence or common sense, but being careless and not following directions.

I'd rather have a stupid careful person driving me around than a careless genius, how about you?

Just to clarify, posters no... (Below threshold)
epador:

Just to clarify, posters not reading it is satire = careless, Californians digging 11 mile tunnel = stupid. All the same, I'd rather be in Philadelphia than LA.

Paul's satire aside, buildi... (Below threshold)

Paul's satire aside, building a tunnel between OC and Riv makes as much sense as the "subway" in Los Angeles (an aside... Los Angeles isn't just earthquake prone, but it sits on huge pools of CRUDE OIL. When commerical buildings go up, they have to deal with crude leaking fresh dug foundation)

And mass transit is not the answer ... indeed, a lot of the insane traffic experienced in So Cal today can be traced back to Govenor Jerry "Moonbeam" Brown's mantra "if you don't build it, they won't come" as he stopped freeway building cold in an attempt to get people out of their cars. So Cal is NOT built like either New York or Frisco, but is has multiple residential and business centers spread out over the region and the whole road/freeway infrastructure is now the worst in the nation. Mass transit only works in very limited fashion. The only new freeway that has been built was the extension of the east/west 210 freeway from where it ended in San Dimas to the 15 freeway (it currently ends at Sierra in Fontana as they work on the next connection). It took the pressure off the 10 and 60 freeways for about a year, but the explosion of housing from Rancho Cucamonga through Highland has even that corridor now crowded.

There are no fast and easy answers because the basin is as constrained by geography as well as its history. If ever there were some sort of disaster that necessitated an evacuation of the area, it would never happen as the way out of the basin is limited to the 5, 15 & 10.

Paul,The categorie... (Below threshold)
Mark:

Paul,

The categories do not show up on RSS, so many people can comment without ever seeing how you filed it. Still, your last line should have prompted them to go directly to the blog page, as I did.

Everybody else:

Ok, us Californian's are stupid, that's obvious to you. But really, I'm curious: How many road tunnels in the US have collapsed during Earthquakes? How many mine shafts? What are the numbers?

I was in the 1964 Good Friday quake in Alaska, and I lived in an historic gold mining town. While the tsunami put a frieghter up the side of a mountain in Kodiac (go to the "Beachcomber" sometime--it's a bar now) and the ground literally opened up and swallowed houses in Anchorage, I don't seem to recall reports of tunnel collapses. And remember, Good Friday was a 9.2, not one of the typically wimpy 5.4-6.0's we have in So. Cal. I could be wrong, so now's your chance to correct me.

Darleen,You forgot... (Below threshold)
Mark:

Darleen,

You forgot to mention methane pockets (ever spend time in West Hollywood or the Grove and see the methane warning systems?) You also forgot to mention unstable and sandy ground. LA has a lot of problems, but those should not threaten a tunnel cut through solid rock.

As for getting out of the "basin," you forgot a few routes. In addition to the ones you mentioned, the 101, 60, 91 and 210 also get you out of the "basin." So does the 405, since the valley is not part of the "basin." If you don't think Riverside is far enough out of the "basin," then hop the 215 toward San Diego. And, you shouldn't forget the smaller ones like the 2, 14, 110, 134, 170 that all help you get out and connect to other roads.

Me? I live on the water in Rancho Palos Verdes, and I'm only a few miles from the Cabrillo Boat Harbor in San Pedro. My exit route is clear--yet I can't imagine any reason to flee short of thermonuclear war.

As for new freeways, what about the 105 which was begun and competed long after most of the 210 was in place? It won't take you out of the basin (unless you exit at LAX), but it certainly relieves east/west traffic in LA. On the other hand, the new toll road in OC will take you from Costa Mesa to near Dana Point, which is clearly out of the basin.

Here are some pictures of p... (Below threshold)
doctorj:

Here are some pictures of present day New Orleans (not the French Quarter!) so that those of you who aren't living it understand why Category 5 levees are imperative. Keep the word out there Paul.

http://hurricanekpics.blogspot.com/2005/11/new-orleans-65-days-after.html

"Move"?That's it, ... (Below threshold)
mojo:

"Move"?

That's it, is it? Your plan?

Yeah, that'll happen. Take a look at a map of Riverside, Calif. some time. See that dam and resivoir? It's sitting on top of the San Andreas fault.

Lotsa luck, cupcake.

Darleen that was a good run... (Below threshold)
Paul:

Darleen that was a good run down of the problems out there... Like so many things, locals "get it" but the rest of us don't.

Racist!(Oh, and yo... (Below threshold)
Beck:

Racist!

(Oh, and you forgot to mention the mudslides, forest fires, mud slides, and the worst natural disaster of them all, Hollywood Actors).

25 years to build, you say?... (Below threshold)
Tim in PA:

25 years to build, you say? I wonder what the odds are of an earthquake there in the next 25 years.....

Paul,You calling p... (Below threshold)
Baggi:

Paul,

You calling people stupid says more about you than it does about the people missing the little bitty line that says "satire".

If you want to be considered in the same circles as the lunatic left who hand out epithets instead of reason, then by all means continue down this road.

If you would like to be considered a serious thinker who uses satire effectively, you might want to start by not calling people names.

I hate to burst your bubble... (Below threshold)
Paul:

I hate to burst your bubble Baggi, but I really don't give a tinkers damn what you think about me.

I gave you and the others ample opportunity to not make a jackass out of yourself. You chose not to avail yourself of it.

Obviously my reading skills... (Below threshold)
Sean:

Obviously my reading skills are very poor. I completely missed the last line and just jumped all over this. Now I feel silly. Sorry, Paul.

You all realize that this p... (Below threshold)
Scott T:

You all realize that this proposed tunnel is to take pressure off the 91 freeway (200K+ cars a day, IIRC, 6 lanes each way at points), all from Riverside/San Bernardino Counties to Orange/LA Counties.

The communities that would all "explode" from this being made (Lake Elsinore, Riverside, Menifee, etc), are already exploding with growth and have ridiculous home appreciations (I live in City of Riverside, I know ;) )

The sad fact is that if a major quake hit and damaged the 91 freeway overpasses (like the 10 freeway in '91 w/ the Northridge quake), all those 200K+ people would have to take the 60/10 freeways.

There is not enough cross-arteries from the coast-inland.

The union's don't want this, as some other commentor said. The project would go right through a State park and Environmentalists would have a cow with it being approved.)

No biggie Sean- But ya gott... (Below threshold)
Paul:

No biggie Sean- But ya gotta admit that was a silver platter I gave it to you on. ;-)

P




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