Hmmmm.

32. In 2000, a group known as "God's Army" took over a hospital in Burma, holding 750 patients and medical staff hostage. They threatened to detonate two bombs if their demands were not met. God's Army is a splinter group from the Christian Karen National Union.

The Karen are a rebel group seeking the overthrow of the Burmese government and the creation of an ethnic "homeland". It has nothing to do with Christianity.

31. The 2002 Soweto bombings in South Africa by a group called The Warriors of the Boer Nation. In an email where the group claimed responsibility for the bombings, they referred to themselves as "fighters for God and the Boer people".

Again this is a rebel group seeking the overthrow of the South African government because they feel they're being oppressed by black rule. It has nothing to do with Christianity.

...

Frankly all of these examples are rather idiotic. They're mostly all either rebel groups or racist organizations with minimal ties, if any, to Christianity. Certainly none have direct ties to mainstream Christian sects or organizations.

What is clearly interesting is that there are no examples of the Pope advocating the beheading of captives. The Pope approving of homicide bombings and etc.

And that is the essential difference between Islam and Christianity and it most definitely underscores the lack of substance in that poster's argument.

You make great points here, but I feel the need to point something out. According to the Bible, once peace comes to the Middle East it'll all be over, anyway.

I see peace coming by one way only. That is only when Islam outgrows what you're speaking about here. Food for thought.

You cannot call the KKK a Christian organization. It was the political enforcement arm of the Democrat Party in the South. Senator Byrd has said that he joined the KKK so he could move up the ladder in the Democrat Party.

Remember that Blacks were voting Republican in those days and had the numbers to throw Democrats out of office in certain localities. The KKK terrorized these Republicans so they would not vote.

Don't forget to mention why the Crusades started, JT. I guess the Muslims in Israel decided it would be fun to kill/drive out all the Jews and Christians and desecrate their holy sites. Hence the whole "taking back the Holy Land" thing.

The LRA in Uganda are really brutal, and really, really strange. No one can figure out quite what they want. Their leader is a mystery. They kidnap children into their army all the time and force them to fight.

They claim to be Christian. Now, if they claimed to be Muslim, there'd be worldwide fundraisers for them, just as there are for the Taliban, al-Qaeda, Hamas, etc.; Saudi Arabia's fine citizens send billions to such "charity" annually. But they claim to be Christian. Outside Christians look at them in horror and condemn them.

THAT's the difference.

Ever notice that Christian charities help everyone, but Islamic charities help only Islamic people, and make it very clear that that is their mission, not helping people in general? Sure, some Christain charities are evangelical (some much more than others), but they'll feed you and give you medicine no matter what.

The atheists have got all the religions beat. They executed 80,000,000.

Thank you Joe, for pointing out the main difference between Christianity and the "Religion of Peace." The KKK and South African groups claim to have christian "beliefs", but they use this perversion to justify their ends which are RACIAL, not religious.
I'm very anti-abortion because I feel it is the wrongful taking of an actual life. I think Kopp and Rudolph are both guilty of the same thing. I think 99.999% of pro-lifers would agree with me. Whether or not those nutcases said God was on thier side or not is irrelevant.
CAIR and other Islamic groups do not condemn the butchering of Jewish schoolchildren by Hamas and other racist hategroups. Not until the recent Jordanian murders have large groups of Muslims protested act done in the name of their religion, and then only because they suffered. Islam cannot be taken as a serious religion until conservatives of the faith condemn the slaughter of innocents.

Like the song goes, "How bizarre, how bizarre."

One wonders whether the commenter in question would claim that, in the 19th Century, the Taiping Rebellion (which resulted in several million dead as it raged throughout China) should be laid at the feet of Christianity, since the Chinese rebel leader believed he was Jesus Christ's younger brother?

Jay,

The response to his list is... another list.
Of crimes by people claiming Islam as their religion... from the past 40 years. Um. 4 years. Ok, how about the past _month_.

This may take serious research, many of these are not immediately placed into the 'Jihadist' column. Witness the beltway snipers - extensive notebooks, but deliberately distanced from Islam regardless of available facts.

One tiny little fact about the Lord's Resistance Army: they're directly supported, financially and militarily, by the very militant Islamic Sudanese government.

In return, the LRA fights against internal rebels in Sudan and makes moves into Uganda that can be officially denied, while their leader spouts off a few carefully-selected Bible quotes. They're really a tribal movement, too, with the leaders all coming from the Acholi tribe.

This generally all reduces down to the fact that in those who are searching with ulterior motive to justify behaviors and choices that are defined by Christianity as condemning of one's immortal soul, any ONE or any ONE GROUP of people who can be made to appear "Christian" are then attempted to be made to appear as "all Christians" or representational of Christianity, and upon/about which people in search of a way out of the Christian concept of salvation will then try to demean the faith.

If you can convince enough other people that you're just fine doing what you're doing, promoting what you're promoting, encouraging others to do what you may want them to do or that they already are doing -- when those actions, choices are defined as threatening to your immortal soul by Christ and Judeo-Christianity in general (although the New Testament delivers salvation that the Old Testament does not, but this is another issue...just saying here that the New Testament refines what the Old Testament affirms and it's significant to understanding Christianity that one know and understand the message of Christ in the New Testament, while limiting one's understanding to the Old Testament can affect understanding) -- you can by demeaning Christianity also attempt to elevate the behaviors and choices involved.

I always find those efforts indicative of a moral dilemma. A person has innate understanding that there's a moral compromise there within certain choices and behaviors, and yet opts to override the intuitive, and goes about rather than changing oneself, attempting to change the perceptions of others about how they perceive the choices, behaviors and based upon what.

I'm glad people here clarify as to the KKK...not being a Christian group, any more than the German Socialist Party was one. There are many misperceptions, unfortunately, allowed to stand and even instructed about in public education. That, again, serves to assist the "acceptance" of the unacceptable, so it's important to examine the source in comments like these, in efforts such as these to discredit Christ, Christianity, the Church.

Interestingly buried information, for example as to contemporary happenings, is that the Catholic Church's Charities organization has been aiding and assisting millions after the Hurricane Katrina damage and has remained nearly completely out of the press. Which then allows people to wrongfully declare the Church as being unconcerned, etc. Perhaps others can see the pattern there...denouncing Christ is the behavior by people who really are trying to hide from Him.

And criticising Him is, too. I find it a call for help. Nothing wrong with it, but it merits attention. Christ came to save but He also saves by refining...and casting out sin.

Pretty well any of these anecdotes you site have nothing to do with Christ or Christianity.

Aside from that, as one who has studied Islam for over 20 years, you are correct in insinuating that Islam will not turn peaceful anytime soon..

IN FACT, it NEVER will as Islam's core teachings are inherently brutal.........Muhammed was and is the example of every pious muslim and Muhammed was a looter, rapist and murderer himself who advocated horrific things.....

The great difference lets say between Christians and Muslims is that those Christians that do horrible things in Christ name (and their have been some to be sure) do so against the teachings of Christ..........Those Muslims that do horrible things in the name of Islam have perfect sanction within the teachings of the Quran and Sunnah!!

Thanks

forget religion. Look at the records only. Don't forget Central and South America, Bosnia, Yugoslavia. Dredge up all the muck and scum you can find. Then assign it to left, right, center (proprotionally if you're that anally retentive).

Then get those people prosecuted, and then sentenced, and be done with it. I have had enough of all monkeys (left, right, center) choosing to focus on crimes of their "opposition". It's pitiful how all of you use whatever arguments are convenient to ding your opponents.

Clinton lied, and then parsed words to try and get away with it.

The WH & WHIG lied about the weapons in Iraq (show me those weapons or proof thereof if you disagree)

Nixon lied.

etc. etc.

Stop being like kindergarden kids and face up to it : politicians do this kind of thing, and anyone who does it should be caught and punished regardless of political convictions.

The day the Pope issues a fatwah on non-Christians, encourages the beheading of Muslims, cheers on the elimination of all Muslims and threatens that the "infidels" shall bathe in their own blood, I'll see the moral equivalence. Christianity is a religion. Radical Islam is a priapic death cult.

Christ said love your neighbor as yourself, do good to those who spitefully use you.

The Prophet said..convert or die.

The MESSAGE in each religion comes from the top man. A good tree brings forth good fruit, and evil tree brings forth poisoned fruit.

We see the nations of the world where poverty, hate, murder, and chaos thrive. Those places are NOT primarily Christian. Ever notice that?

One final chauvinistic word : as a woman, I know which religion will not stone me to death for being raped, for impinging on the "honor" of my vainglorious male relatives.

Patricia makes the sound point that needs to be emphasized this it is strands of radical Islam and the jihads that are the dangers to the West. Most of these Middle-East societies without main stream Islam, or religion of some kind, would probably pose even greater criminal threats.

The WH & WHIG lied about the weapons in Iraq (show me those weapons or proof thereof if you disagree)

I don't need to -- the lack of weapons doesn't prove a lie, you need to prove they knew the weapons had already been spirited out of the country during the 14-month-long glacially slow "rush to war."

McGehee,
You missed the point that fred was trying to make. He summed it up nicely:

Stop being like kindergarden kids and face up to it : politicians do this kind of thing, and anyone who does it should be caught and punished regardless of political convictions.

By continuing to focus on and defend the imaginary WMD, you lose sight of the real issues.

You could look at the terror campaigns in Northern Ireland--and outlying areas--as examples of Christian terror. While there were certainly economic and social issues involved, the battles and bombings were being done in the name of particular Christian identifications. Often the targets were selected solely on the basis of which thread of Christianity they followed.

A point of fact: Saudi Arabia does not automatically disqualify Jews from entering the country. I've known Jews, in Saudi Arabia, as far back as 1981 in my personal experience, and know of some still there. The Saudis don't permit Israelis in, however.

Another thing here that is key is that Islam is an ideology that has within it's structure of beliefs that some lives be taken as acts of ideology.

Christianity does not. There is no aspect to Christianity that requires that the faithful go out and claim lives among those who refute or refuse the beliefs.

While, as I wrote, Islam does so require. I think it's speculated that some among wicca and satanism do, too.

I can't see how anyone could even compare Christianity to much of anything else, in my experience, beyond the behavioral. But that seems to be the focus of people who perceive Christianity as yet another club or social organization in which human behaviors are shared with society in general.

Albertanator specifies that which I reserved, as to Islam and Muhammed. Thanks for being so straightforward.

John Burgess...and Israel won't allow Christians citizenship in Israel. To temper a bit there as to exclusions by whom and where.

"Christian terror" is a complete misnomer, a contradictory, nonsensical statement.

It's not "Christianity" that terrorizes, nor Christains who engage in "terror" upon others. There are people living in and amidst those who are Christians, engaging in "terror", yes, but it's not Christianity that is motivating it.

Anyone can sit in a pew, sing a song. It does not mean they are Christian.

It's debatable whether Rudolph qualifies as christian in anything but the "ethnic" sense.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-07-05-rudolph-cover-partone_x.htm?POE=NEWISVA

With regard to terrorism, a fundamental difference between Islam and Christianity is that Islam institutes the concept of a holy war against infidels. These holy wars are not "jihad", but rather war that's physical in nature and general is scope, applying to infidels everywhere and for all time. On the other hand, even the Christian old testament restricts physical war to an explicit list of nations and times and for the purpose of bringing about the nation of Israel. The only general call to war for Christians is a spiritual war against the forces of evil, which can be as practical as fighting against our own base nature or as ethereal as using the Name that's above all names to battle demonic forces. We see what Islam calls a martyr; someone who blows themselves up in order to kill others. Read Acts 7 to see what Christianity calls a martyr.

From "S"

"Another thing here that is key is that Islam is an ideology that has within it's structure of beliefs that some lives be taken as acts of ideology."

I hear the the Gangster Diciples (and the Crips and the Bloods...) believe the same thing!

Rudolph isn't a Christian.

Jay:

But my point is simple: yes, all religions have committed atrocities in their past. It's part and parcel of the package. But the important thing is that the great religions outgrow that stage.

People committ atrocities Jay; religions are abstract concepts which people create and interpret, somtimes in order to justify their actions, IMO. Bringing up the idea that so-called "great religions" get somehow outgrow their terrorist phase is just weird. What?

I hear this argument time and time again. There is so much violent and weird shit in both the Koran and the Bible that its unreal.

Going around saying that "Islam" is responsible for committing atrocities ignores the specific groups and individuals that are committing the acts. Terrorism occurred in Ireland, and was committed by Christians. Terrorism has been committed by practicing atheists. Terrorism has been committed by Muslims.

For me it's not really useful sit here and try to assess all the world's religions on some kind of scorecard, especially since acts of war, terrorism, and horror are generally committed for varying POLITICAL reasons, even though religion is used as some kind of banner for both sides.

9/11. They were radical Muslims, with some serious homicidal issues, among others. I do not "blame" Islam, but instead the people who planned, supported, and carried out the acts of terror.

Dont make me go pick out stupid and violent quotes from the Bible, because there are plenty of them. It's not the religion people, its the individuals, the actual humans who committ the acts, that are the problem.

This is like blaming some heavy metal band for kids' bad behaviors. Like saying that violent lyrics somehow FORCE people to do evil things. I dont buy it; I think its a copout. I dont care how weird or violent the passages in the Koran or the Bible are. I blame the people who use religions and other tools as ways to achieve political goals, etc.

Hitler was a terrorist. So was Stalin. Do we blame Fascism, do we blame the idea of Socialism? Hell no. We blame the people that fell for that bullshit and did things they knew was wrong.

The whole LRA thing in Uganda is another great example. Joseph Kony is a terrorist, and horrible things are happening in that country. Children are being brainwashed and used as soldiers, and this is all done in the name of some religion. Kony and the LRA wants to overthrow the government, so he comes up with all his religious BS to get people to follow him; or to scare them into following him. The government of Uganda isnt exactly angelic, so many of the people are caught inbetween. They have this shitty government, and this violent terrorist group fighting that government. Blaming whatever "religion" Kony claims to follow is stupid in this case, as it's just an irrelevant oversimplification.

Ian is correct. ERRudolph is not a christian. He is racist. He has made it clear that he bombs abortion clinics, "because they only abort white babies".

I've heard this prolife rationale all my life.

No, I don't think ALL prolifer's feel this way, but some of them do.

"No, I don't think ALL prolifer's feel this way, but some of them do."

Clearly proving that not all prolifers are Christian...or sane.

Tob

Tob

Thank you for your understanding.

By continuing to focus on and defend the imaginary WMD,

Imaginary? They existed. Fact. And it was Saddam's responsiblity as part and parcel of the ceasefire in the first Gulf war to provide proof of their destruction.

Geez, is religious dedication to ignoring historical fact a requirement of the Leftist Cult?

S wrote:

There is no aspect to Christianity that requires that the faithful go out and claim lives among those who refute or refuse the beliefs.

Compare with:

"If your nearest relative or closest friend, even a brother, son, daughter, or beloved wife whispers to you to come and worship these foreign gods, do not consent nor listen, and have no pity; Do not spare that person from the penalty; don't conceal this horrible suggestion. Execute him! Your own hand shall be the first upon him to put him to death, then the hands of all the people."

-Dueteronomy 13:6,7

Top Muslim leaders call for bloodshed so often that their calls to violence don't even make news. Compare this to the outcry, especially from many Christians, when the idiotic Pat Robertson called for the assassination of Chavez and the Divine destruction of a municipality in Pa.

Mohammed said, "Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him." Vol. 9:57(Hadiths)

Jesus said,"He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword." --Matthew 26:52(Gospels)

Quite a difference in philosophy, indeed.

And then there's this, from the Revelation, in which Jesus codemns Jezebel and her followers for practicing immorality and eating meat that was sacrificed to other idols:

"I gave her time to change her mind and attitude, but she refused. Pay attention now to what I am saying: I willlay her upon a sickbed of intense affl